The Transformational Impact of Story Telling with Shawn Coyne | Voices with Vervaeke

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Today's Voices is an illuminating conversation with Shawn Coyne, a distinguished editor, publisher, and writer, this episode dives into the depth of storytelling and narrative structures. Shawn, the author of The Story Grid, elucidates the importance of narratives in human communication, and how they are our adaptive responses to change. Brace yourselves for a stimulating exploration of how stories can shape reality, and how the writer's own transformative journey impacts this process.
Time-Codes:
00:00 - Dr. John Vervaeke and Guy Sengstock delve into the transformative nature of dialogue in cultivating wisdom and collective intelligence - circlinginstitute.com/circlin...
07:09 - Shawn Coyne is introduced; he brings to the table his 30-year expertise in book publishing.
09:00 - Shawn shares the profound teachings of his book, The Story Grid, illuminating the structure and function of narratives.
11:30 - Shawn expresses his fascination with John's work on the meaning crisis, leading to their professional collaboration.
15:28 - Delving into how stories allow us to share experiences and construct a mutual understanding of the world.
17:43 - Discussing the role of stories in facilitating effective communication and coordination in response to change.
19:13 - Shawn sheds light on common misunderstandings and misinterpretations arising from mistaking parts of a story for the whole.
21:44 - Stories as adaptive responses to change are explored, revealing their potential as simulations of reality.
24:00 - Shawn highlights the pitfalls in storytelling, where people often mistake parts of the story for the whole.
24:44 - The role of ideological possession in creating overly ordered stories, leading to misconceptions, is discussed.
26:06 - John argues that a good story should enhance cognition to help people grasp the complexity of the world.
27:30 - Shawn explores how stories can shape reality, with examples from popular culture.
28:30 - Analyzing popular storytelling trends of dystopian and superhero-driven narratives in the past 10-15 years.
30:07 - Shawn emphasizes the need to consider the audience's experience when creating stories, aiming to entertain and provide a cathartic experience.
33:23 - Highlighting the crucial difference between complex stories and those that are ideologically driven or overly simplistic.
36:18 - John engages Shawn in a discussion about the distinction between complicated and complex stories, and the "trying not to try" concept in the creative process.
38:00 - Shawn emphasizes the criticality of embracing process over formula in writing and storytelling.
39:24 - Using the analogy of Muhammad Ali's fight against George Foreman, Shawn illustrates the inherent complexity and strategy in storytelling.
43:50 - Shawn discusses the concept of storytelling as a heroic journey, where the writer must undergo a transformative process to create a compelling narrative.
55:12 - Shawn highlights the current gap in storytelling: the lack of a coherent narrative theory and its perception as an art, not a science.
57:11 - Proposing a novel perspective, Shawn argues that using complexity and cognitive science can enhance our understanding of stories and their functions.
58:10 - John appreciates Shawn's innovative approach, suggesting a future discussion to analyze popular stories.
59:01 - Shawn talks about the value of analyzing masterpieces to understand how expert writers craft complex stories.
01:00:00 - Shawn shares his ongoing project, analyzing The Matrix and its relevance to contemporary society.

[@johnvervaeke]

Join Dr. Vervaeke and many others in the Circling and Dialogos ONLINE workshop, June 24th and 25th, 2023, sign up for Circling & Dialogos today: circlinginstitute.com/circling-dialogos/

[@TheVeganVicar]

Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies. 🤡 To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, socialism, multiculturalism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.

[@JGMio]

300$… a bit disappointing amount of money to ask for “saving” humankind by teaching these lost methods. Following you for over a year, consuming every item, and never was there a clear and actionable explanation of dialogos etc. Now I see why, a sales funnel. I understand things cost money to produce but going the Jordan P monetisation path is simply discouraging and trust breaking. I love your work and I will continue giving my time and attention. Just with added caution…

[@johnvervaeke]

@@JGMio Hello, episodes 10 a and 10 b of After Socrates give an explanation and demonstration of everything we do in the workshop, and they are available for free.

[@JGMio]

Haven’t gotten that far in after Socrates, I will have more patience. Will you be releasing a more actionable series? like the “only the exercises” of your meditation work? 🙏

[@johnvervaeke]

@@JGMio We are planning to do this, but it is not high on the queue right now. Sorry, a lot happening and many projects underway.

[@charlesw2520]

Stories bring to light the many different levels of reality and existence within and within the world. This is a life-changing discussion.

[@goldjacket4918]

As an aspiring filmmaker, this is deeply meaningful and life affirming

[@InterfaceGuhy]

Can't wait for the Matrix discussion! This conversation and the spark of dialogos it kindled feels powerfully potent and promising. John, you are continuing to improve as a storyteller (thinking specifically of "Home, Hearth, Healing" structured talk) and I am inspired by your continual commitment to following the Logos where it leads. One of my biggest hang-ups with JBP and others has been their insistence on the primacy of narrative (mistaking the order). And yet I also deeply feel the inadequacy in the narratives of modern scientists (mistaking the chaos). So looking forward to the fruits of the continued unfolding of the complexity of RRR, deep-continuity non-reductive physicalism, and the Art at the leading edge of your arguments. ❤

[@sonicjihad7]

Really inspiring to see John giddy and student like here. I totally passed over this talk but just saw they’re writing a book together so immediately came back. I think this might really help me bring the focus back into my art that I’ve been feeling a lack of. Thanks once again, John, and Shawn as well.

[@mikesaatkamp3510]

How lucky we are to engage with such talented, sincere instructors/educators. Bravo John and Shawn, and Thank You!

[@indranifausch4102]

Thank you. I hope to hear more you Shawn Coyne.

[@lizdouglass8647]

I wanted this to go on for hours. This conversation in and of itself was relevance realization. Utterly invigorating, intriguing and life giving all at the same time. Please do this again.

[@danscieszinski4120]

Speaking of narratives it’s fun to watch/be part of Dr. Vervaeke’s own hero’s journey. There was a vast leadership void to fill in the philosophy space and he definitely diagnosed the crisis and is actually executing his action plan.. and I believe it’s working!! The Earth needed this flavor of movement in the wake of post modernisms many dead ends. Bravo Dr. V 👏 your braveness to spearhead and trail blaze us out of the woods is gaining traction every day. Know that we are listening and rooting for you, and you have a following of less public facing listeners that fight the good fight with you every day at work, with our families, and with our friends. Our methods may go un acknowledged, but for many of us that is how we prefer it. ❤👍✌️

[@willitneverend]

I enjoy the moments when John shows surprise and pleasure at hearing his work reflected back to him by people who see those very same structures in their respective areas of expertise. It must be gratifying.

[@kathleenthompson9566]

I've followed Shawn for a while, as he's worked with Steven Pressfield for qiite a while. His book is amazing. Thanks for having him on.

[@gregorybakker]

This is huge. Well done John!

[@jaredtlucek7498]

Thanks so much for having Mr. Coyne on. This was so insightful for me. I've been writing all my life, and I've never heard the things I've been doing articulated in such a clear and profound way before. This really helps me!

[@masonm6392]

Mentally gasping while he was talking about order vs chaos and complexity mediating between the two. It first recalled small-world neural networks for me and how they lead to optimal information integration. This concept comes up in a lot of places!

[@shaktisiddha8414]

I LOVE the idea of the three of you working on some famous stories. Just for starters, Shakespeare?

[@danielross7899]

Thank you for this profound sharing. On my personal artistic journey I’ve always aimed to keep one foot in the logical “factual” realm, and one in the magical chaotic realm, even though the process often threatens to rip me apart. Shawn’s ideas really ring true and give me new insight, and cast in the wide context of John’s work, it’s especially meaningful. 🙏🏼

[@Beederda]

I found this conversation quite fruitful thank you for your time JV ❤️🍄

[@KalebPeters99]

I saw a brilliant essay by Thomas Flight about the more recent wave of "Post-Postmodern" or "Metamodern" stories. Movies like 'Everything Everywhere All At Once' or shows like 'Beef'. Where there are deep explorations of meaning, but without declaring it dead at the end. I think the zeitgeist is slowly moving past the postmodern nihilism phase.

[@thewanderer37]

Saw this too and think it's right on the money.

[@das3841]

Yes yes yes, very good, thank you, much to think on and digest!

[@littledidtheyknow4332]

Finally. I need this for my dissertation. ^^

[@justinsmorningcoffee]

This is SO exciting!!

[@DaemonLlama]

This is important stuff you guys are doing. Keep going! Looking forward to the Matrix episode

[@SennyMarshall]

Very cool. Looking forward to the book.

[@SpareKingdom]

Thank you feels great!

[@Art2GoCanada]

Enthralling account of the big picture!

[@loonadeux]

Thanks to both of you. This is my favorite episode so far.

[@domenicmolinaro6580]

This is incredibly exciting as a lover of books and aspiring writer, and someone who's been (I think) undergoing transformation through john's work. It connects so many bridges. We need a cognitive science show series of this! :) There's been consciousness, selfhood, development, and psychology...art and narrative deserves that lens!

[@philbertius]

So much of what Shawn said rang true to me, and validates my need to write a story despite being so inexperienced. I’ve apparently gone through a lot of the difficulty that writers do in my attempt to pursue my goal authentically, so maybe it isn’t time to give up yet.

[@thewanderer37]

So excited for the potential Matrix episode.

[@marcoaslan]

Great conversation. I like to say that "Entrepreneurs look for problems they can solve, while storytellers look for wounds they can heal"

[@TheVeganVicar]

Great and lowly are RELATIVE. 😉

[@roadcrewfilms]

Absolutely awesome!

[@danmoore2059]

Story Grid was one of my first podcast journeys. It profoundly informed my approach to teaching literature, then as my soul thirsted for more, I found Awakening from the Meaning Crisis, which has had a similar effect. Listening, I had to stop the interview several times feeling several ideas/thoughts converge and cascade from different parts of my memory. It was like having my operating system updated. Am I right to think this was some sort of anagogic experience? My Greek vocabulary may fall short, but my thoughts reach upwards. Thank you. I am so excited Shawn is publishing your book.

[@Scene-a-maticStorytelling]

Been waiting for this crossover episode for a long time! I think Shawn’s doing really interesting work over at Story Grid. Hope you have him on for multiple follow up conversations soon!

[@shamanic_nostalgia]

This was really really good

[@johnmartin2813]

All the stories I know about have this much in common: a given situation; an introduced element; a resultant conflict; the resolution of that conflict, which brings about a sudden onset of insight and wisdom. In fact something like this is typical of all art that takes place in time. One has only to think of first movement form or the sonnet. Nor is this necessarily a formula. My formula is to let my words take me for a walk, and this is the adventure they lead me on. Even though my characters insist on acquiring a different independent life from the one I intended for them. 'My characters', I say, when in fact the relationship is very much the other way around, and they possess me as 'their author'. Nor has it entirely escaped my attention that this progress is very similar to the Hegelian dialectic. Stories shape themselves according to their own internal dynamics. The four phases need not necessarily take place in that order. Sometimes the resolution comes first. But I don't really see how you can have a science of storytelling. Since art celebrates the uniqueness of things and you can't really have a science of the unique. You can only really do science on similarities . Both science and art begin in wonder but whereas science passes on to the question mark, art passes on to the exclamation mark. Science says, I wonder why? Art says, wonderful! And both expressions are equally valid. Except that science analyses and splits apart. Whereas art unifies and heals. For this reason science tends to dismiss the miraculous whereas art tends to affirm it.

[@hebaalamri7815]

I enjoyed this epic conversation, and I have gained a lot of knowledge I never thought I would get from a conversation between two people. I enjoy the video more than my dramas walah , well thankouy Shawn, you inspire me deeply with all your notes that describe how the story is, and I write all my own notes, such as the strategy that Muhammad Ali adopts or makes. I'd never heard this before. You make it simple to know our goals. I like the six levels it has reached and thestory that complex way because he let the choas into his body! brilliant, and you have the flow with changes Thank you so much. I am an architect, and I like writing from childhood. Until now, I have accomplished nothing, but this encourages me to complete a novel.Thank you so much both of you ^^

[@ryanivanoff]

what a great talk.

[@BurtKocain]

I'm definitely going to check out the Story Grid. I'm planning on making comics (someday) and it sounds very helpful.

[@Pualn08]

This was a great interview. I'm a big fan of Shawn's Story Grid method. Both of your insights made me think. I even ordered "Lord of Light" because you got me curious.

[@JasenRobillard]

Would love to hear any combination of Shawn, Chris, Jonathan and John discussing the underlying themes and transformation at the heart of the new Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse. It appears to my eyes to be a healthy call to respond against the meaning crisis and nihilism.

[@danscieszinski4120]

We are literally talking about fiction that will act as a primer for unlocking the minds of the current generation. Novel as boot loader program. Novel as cognitive map. Novel as enlightenment tool. Novel as a mass generational mind hacking! Author-shaman is a real vocation, and I personally identify as one. I’m knee deep in my masterpiece as we speak and can honestly say it fits your bill as shamanic medicine via form of a ‘novel’ novel. Ever notice how the young folks aren’t impressed by the Star Wars opera any longer? Many boomers left their parents old time religion and subscribed to the hedonic treadmill and got lost in the abyss. Gen X traded their parents shrugs for Hollywood myth. For some it worked fine! For others not so much. The success rate of those choices clearly not high, hence the crisis. The last chapter of Carl Sagans Contact wasn’t filmed in the movie version, I’ve always wondered why, it changed my life very much like Dr Vs reference to his own book. I predict the emergence of LLMs will counterintuitively inspire a great awakening and renaissance in grand story telling after all the poo pooing subsides. It’s already lit the fire in me!!!

[@cine9nine]

It just occurred to me that I have all but stopped consuming modern stories.

[@colorfulbookmark]

Story telling is powerful capability of human being, distinct from other creatures. I have watched this video for enjoyment, fresh and wise touch of topics other people also learn from it ^^ I would like to recruit fanclubs appeared in this video, their presence is an example of story telling and English learners also can refer to ^^

[@IsidroUrquia]

Man Facing southeast by Eliseo Subiela. An Argentinian film. It cracked my framing.

[@MimicMethod]

Have you guys experimented with integrating song, dance or role play acting into your circling practice? Our capacity to engage dialogos through prosaic speech strikes me as an exaptation of our more primitive capacity to engage each other through those more dynamic and embodied practices. Did the greeks have an analogous term to "dialogos" for the phenomenon that emerges between two or more dancers, musicians or actors improvising off one another?

[@walteredstates]

Bring on 'The Matrix' episode, please!

[@jeddarcy3465]

Shawn introduced me to John V 👍

[@PilgrimVisions]

I was just rereading Christopher Alexander's classic The Timeless Way of Building today. I've always had an intuition that Alexander's work has at least analogical relevance to the writing process, but thus far have made only feeble attempts to articulate a "pattern language" for storytelling. That sounds a lot like what Coyne has tried to do.

[@kathleenthompson9566]

John, you, Chris and Shawn could talk through stories in a way similar to how Jonathan and his colleague are talking about universal history, using your own terminology.

[@projectmalus]

The stable dynamic entered into at the third periodicity could be a result of two elements of (English) language 1) asserts an ontology of objects and relations (or being and moving) and 2) doesn't assert which is which, and so the third element is the tool user asserting number 2 in various probabilities as the dynamic portal. Using various sets like verb and noun, adverb and verb, adverb and adjective to show the dynamic of being and moving. The problem of presenting part as whole seems to be in presenting a spectacle complete in itself without the tool user coming in either creator or viewer, the objectification removing the relational. Presenting the tool as tool maker to solve the hard problem. Thanks.

[@dsuleyma]

Very cool, I would love to have a AftMC book. ❤

[@dalibofurnell]

I'm looking forward to the book/s ❤ so, Jordan has that self authoring program... what if you had a co- authoring program 🤔? Anyways, this video is almost inspiring me to write a second book, the first one was nearly 10 years ago and so much has changed since then, and I think it's possible for me to provide way more substantial and new content for people to help them help themselves and others. I have been hesitating for some reason and i honestly dont know why. Hmm I wonder ... i sense a small trail of questions beginning to form now and I think that instead of following the trail only by myself, i could attempt to throw them into a conversation with another person and see if there's some sort of resolve or higher quality resolution that comes from that ... or even just a spark of something. Maybe its a dead end, but perhaps it is worth exploring.. And yet I feel that I could try a different approach and let go of all this, and let things fall into place naturally ✨️ let go, Let God... trying not to try..

[@noreenquinn3844]

I wonder if you did a two for one offer, would you get greater involvement.

[@matthewgillam149]

When we create this first consciously automatous AI, it will be SAM.

[@KonradYerba]

Just curious, how does Shawn Coyne claim that we have no framework for stories, while Josph's Campbell Hero with a Thousand Faces and other works exist? Isn't that precisely a framework for stories/narratives?

[@KalebPeters99]

"To answer very quickly, people mistake parts of the story for the whole" Wow. I'll be chewing on that for a while...

[@naderkhaghani1135]

We didn't get to "try not to try" important.

[@BcClarity]

I want help. An opera needs a libretto/story.

[@ReflectiveJourney]

I found this conversation incredibly lacking. Prehaps a constructive criticism for john would be prevent guests from sementic drift ( using different words to point towards same concepts). Whole talk can be summed up in have a balance while writing. It didn't even touch the major issue of bindingness of story to normative and the fragmentation of stories. There are also perhaps "levels" of stories ( historical, religious and artistic) and relationships between them. These sre jist off the top of my head and probably got them from watching john in different talks. Not sure why these critical issues are not brought forth