A Conversation so Intense It Might as Well Be Psychedelic | John Vervaeke | EP 180

On this episode of the Jordan Peterson Podcast, Jordan is joined by John Vervaeke, a colleague of Jordan’s. John has been an associate professor in the teaching stream at the University of Toronto since 1994. He teaches courses in the Psychology department on thinking and reasoning with an emphasis on insight problem solving associated with creativity, cognitive development with an emphasis on the dynamic nature of development, and higher cognitive processes with an emphasis on intelligence, rationality, mindfulness, and the psychology of wisdom.
Jordan and John discuss how they know each other, the last time they saw one another, Christianity, power, perspective, atheists, religion, Heidegger, and much more.
Find more about John Vervaeke online on his website johnvervaeke.com/.
[00:00] Introduction
[00:18] Jordan introduces John Vervaeke
[02:10] When John and Jordan met last at a mind masters program six years ago and John's current projects, "Untangling the world's knot," what is the difference between dialogue and thought?
[04:00] The nature of insight and Jordan's new writing
[08:30] Philosophia and Philonokia
[15:30] The relationship of dialogue and Christianity
[20:30] Collective intelligence, the spirit, psychological and logos intimacy, and the trinity
[25:30] The difference between the cartesian and theological view of knowledge
[29:00] Different states of flow
[35:30] Jordan's takeaways from doing the biblical series
[40:00] Johns belief that Christianity is trying to integrate agape and logos
[46:30] Are the culture wars that deep?
[54:30] Jordan's claim about the power
[59:00] Jordan's definition of love and truth and the misframing of Nihilism
[01:05:00] Propositional knowing
[01:12:30] Consciousness and attention
[01:16:00] Why Jordan believes men and women select each other
[01:23:00] Johns talks about his sequence of episodes on his KZbin where he lays out an argument trying to build the experience of sacredness
[01:29:00] The sacredness of Plato, The Bible, and nature.
[01:32:00] John’s work linking cognitive and personality theories.
[01:39:30] Is there a distinction between the unknown real and the unconscious and the wrestling metaphor.
[01:47:00] Criticisms of atheists and theism
[01:51:30] Participatory knowing and affordances
[02:02:00] Perspectival, procedural, and propositional awareness
[02:10:00] Derrida and différance
[02:14:00] The pathway to wisdom as meaning and the driving power of the west
[02:17:00] Heidegger's attractiveness to Naziism
[02:26:30] Jordan’s debate with Slavoj Zizek
#Creativity #Cognition #Consciousness
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast can be found at www.jordanbpeterson.com/podcast/
Visit www.jordanbpeterson.com to view more information about Jordan, his books, lectures, social media, blog posts, and more.
Jordan B. Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto, a clinical psychologist, and the author of the multi-million copy bestseller 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, #1 for nonfiction in 2018 in the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, the Netherlands, Brazil and Norway, and slated for translation into 50 languages.
Dr. Peterson has appeared on many popular podcasts and shows, including the Joe Rogan Experience (877, 958, 1006), The Rubin Report (12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos, Free Speech, Psychology, Gender Pronouns), H3H3 (#37), and many more. Dr. Peterson’s own podcast has focused mainly on his lecture series, covering a great deal of psychology and historical content.
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[@joev.8543]

Can we take a moment to appreciate how much Jordan admires John? It isn't very often you see this childlike awe from JP. He will often level himself with his guests, but it is rare that he actually subordinates himself like he's doing here. He's so giddy he can't be quiet haha. And it absolutely beautiful. 💚

[@davyroger3773]

That's quite the spin on peterson being an utter asshole to his guest

[@lostandfound5145]

@@davyroger3773 do you call it “spin” every time someone has a different perspective than you?

[@Natalie-sb3km]

1000%!! It’s adorable

[@kenyafromcali]

Indeed! It was a delight! He was giddy.

[@inthefade]

@@davyroger3773 Dude, this is like two friends having a beer.

[@ToneIrv]

The first I've heard of John Vervaeke. What a respectful and patient man he is.

[@nchomey]

Likewise. Something for Peterson to aspire towards...

[@yeaown8139]

I really recommed his work, Awakening From the Meaning Crisis is a great series of lectures that converges a lot with Peterson's own work and ideas.

[@maljamin]

Patience of a god!

[@cyberjay9146]

@@nchomey and what have you done for society lately?

[@cyberjay9146]

Funny cuz if u watched till the end you will see John commend jordan for being so respectful 🤣😂🤣

[@divineinyang5384]

If Jordan let John finish every thought, it would have been a 4 hour long podcast, and it would have been the greatest podcast ever.

[@hakantopkaya3150]

how deterministic! maybe it would have still been around the same length, but not as hard to follow, but then again maybe not as fruitful, either, because sometimes thinkers lose their current thought, if they don't intervene fast. Nevertheless, this is a conversation, so some chaos/imbalance/weakness has to exist, at least in delivery. Yes, a it was a bit rough at times, but extraordinarily full of gems.

[@divineinyang5384]

@@hakantopkaya3150 Honestly, I don't disagree with you at all.

[@Kastled5]

I think the interruptions are partly due to Jordan's confidence in John's understanding of the subject matter and his abilities to guide the discussion without hindrance despite his interjections. Upon revisiting this conversation after many months, Jordan's participation still appears/feels perfunctory until you see that John is "dancing" with him. I couldn't thank them both enough.

[@F1986R]

He can listen well, I guess he had to do it to ensure that a bigger audience can follow the ideas. It's just the introduction : )

[@neomacchio4692]

Jesus… this was VERY frustrating to listen too. JP must be on some meds because he literally could not stop interjecting. I love and have immense respect for JP and what he does nonetheless!!

[@kimmartino5556]

Definitely great to see JP excited to converse with his old friend but i have to admit i found it frustrating that he was interrupting him after asking most questions. I really wanted to hear his answers but JP kept interrupting him. First time I’ve seen him cut someone off that many times.

[@marcoamir5107]

It because he was excited , and he can't control himself from it , I think it still so wholesome to see this man in this type of conversation with people that interest him , this man went through a whole lot

[@CarsAndBasss]

I agree, clearly enthusiasm, but let the damn guy SPEAK lol

[@lordgrimm2905]

its proof he is speaking some good shit

[@Impossible2nd]

I thought it was just me lol -I don’t remember him being such a steamroller in other conversations…

[@frenchfryfingers3031]

I agree.. JP was abnormally interruptive.. I took this to mean something was going on, because this is not his norm.

[@dannymeechan1]

I’m so grateful that we have access to conversations this profound, what a time to be alive despite all we face in this era

[@maggipetty7047]

I too feel fortunate to be alive in this time. I am hoping I can take this knowledge and understanding with me into the next realm.

[@SICAleighSAMMONS]

I learned more from listening to this conversation then I did in all of my undergrad, and I was a philosophy minor! The "educational" institutions stand mocking us all, took our money and guess what?!?!? We didn't all pick the wrong major. But the universities secretly replaced growth with a system that they knew would lengthen the adolescence phase. That's the opposite of what we would go into debt for.....but they didn't tell anyone, just kept it to themselves, meanwhile, they all KNOW that they are harming these young adults and crippling them for the rest of our lives: financially, emotionally, intellectually. It's not sustainable for a species to dumb a whole generation of itself down. Any place that disallows any speech should not be allowed to consider or call itself an educational institution. Mainly. Someone needs to make the proper argument for the students saddled with debt. The argument isn't that they charged us too much for the wrong degree. The argument is fraud. They frauded all students since they began this secret operational change for the worst, broke the contract and the education that all of us are paying for and were charged for, but it never once existed in those buildings. We would have only agreed to saddle ourselves with that level of debt if the outcome were more prepared young adults and more skilled and well taught and productive members of society. None of those things can be produced from the directive the universities are operating from. Which is to lengthen the adolescent phase of life for these young adults who trust the institutions to do the opposite. It is an egregious breach of contract and fraud but also a breach of social contract with the society at large, which the universities seemed to have happily waged a war, to watch, from students, who are brainwashed to be grievanced. They are not concerned with teaching anything. They are sleeping at night when they know they are tapping our most precious resource, the next generation.

[@antiprohibit]

@@SICAleighSAMMONS, well said, miss. Well said indeed. I am happy I took the time to read your well crafted response.

[@laurakosch]

@@SICAleighSAMMONS Interesting thought. I don’t disagree. But just curious, the universities are on the hook for this money, this debt, because they committed the fraud?? Yes?

[@elizabethecarlisle1045]

@@laurakosch Yes, yes and yes!

[@calfborg]

Legend has it, John is still trying to finish his thought.

[@insaneyoggi]

Or sentence without being interrupted

[@davidlakhter]

haha

[@dqualsh]

The video that led me to this video was a Jordan Peterson speech in which he stressed the importance of a) listening to others and b) the power found in humility and realizing that you don't know enough. My second experience with him is watching him not listen and constantly talk over this other dude. I don't know what to think of this guy.

[@eldritchpalmerable]

@@dqualsh I have watched numerous videos of JBP talking with other people and I have never seen him interrupting so much, I am also trying to understand why. He seems to be in a hyper aroused state; he enjoys a lot and gets a lot of ideas while Verveake talks and shoots them. I think there is a deep mutual firing of ideas rather a constant interruption, but we cannot see that very well because we don’t know their relationship. I think they know well each other and the conversation is taking a form that is more private rather than public.

[@brandonscarborough-castro6049]

@@eldritchpalmerable good point. It’s best to look at this conversation as if they were in a break room building off each other rather than podcast interview style

[@chihirokannda7501]

I'm like, 30% through the video, and I'm already feeling the wind of concepts flying over my head more often than I usually do.

[@bernardomesilva]

Nice metaphor. Search for Ruach ha-kodesh. You're the Path.

[@robinmiller871]

I love that Jordan is genuinely, excited. Be childlike not childish. I am safe and can lower my mental guard, when listening to Jordan because I know he is authentic. What a blessing to have radiant, souls in our lives! Life is ot an eternal search for GOD. Life is an eternal expression of GOD Bless you all!!!

[@skepticalgenious]

This is so interesting. I too noticed this and found it beautiful. To be childlike in curiosity and allow the adult defensive nature to sleep. Two genuine souls not attempting any dominance.

[@wmgodfrey1770]

In the Neoplatonic Tradition of Monotheism, that is.

[@drironmom6815]

I love listening to this conversation also, though I have no hope in understanding them I’m in awe, filled with admiration, respect, and love for these two men who’s intelligence far exceeds my own. And gratitude that two men so intelligent are also so benevolent

[@BenBanks630]

Anyone who has friends of wit and intelligence knows conversations like this, with its rapid twists and turns, are among life's great pleasures.

[@highdesert5143]

I agree! This was a beautiful thing to witness. Awe struck!

[@dannyvoyles-presents-1087]

That's what it's all about. These are the conversations you have with a friend where it feels like a door to another realm slowly opens and a mysterious force starts to fill the room and your excitement in following the conversation further can hardly be contained

[@andrewcole4255]

Exactly right!

[@lynnjaskowiak9963]

I've been we'd to my partner for 45 years. He suffered from undiagnosed aspbergers. I felt so alone in our life together, unseen. Upon his diagnosis my life became fulfilled. This conversation was eye opening for me. I felt half a person, two become one in a long term relationship. I melded with and within him. And was left half me. Understanding that he cannot see me; relieved me of the responsibility of trying to make him see me. He's happy as we are. So I was freed to accept that fact, love him deeper , and find myself fully. This realization gave me the freedom to be able to trust myself because I am enough. I filled that space of two. I am whole ,and so deeply in love with a man who does care as much as his biology allows. I now spend the time I wasted battling trying to be seen, exploring creative endeavors that I find fill me with what was missing from my relationship. This discourse, is so pertinent. Thank you.

[@bizzwap8633]

I don't see how no one has commented on this; but this is absolutely beautiful, Lynn. I hope 5 months later you feel the same way; if not even more fulfilled!

[@lynnjaskowiak9963]

@@bizzwap8633 Honestly, Better than ever. I believe in making the best of the time I have . Time is the most precious commodity. It cannot be replaced. So instead of while hunkering down all pissed of and angry. We spent intentionally good time with each other Amd respected each other's space when needed. Covid19 has been great for our relationship. We made the best of a horrible situation. Thank you . I wish you good health!

[@maemaemay7013]

My sister who was diagnosed with Adult Asperger's Syndrome about 8 years ago gave me the best compliment the other day. She told me I spoke "Aspie" better than if it were my second language, it's like I was born in a 2-language household l, the way I can slide in & out of Aspie & Neurotypical." That is high praise indeed! Before her diagnosis, she was only sticking around on earth because she knew it would devastate our Momma if she "opted out." She thought she was a "bad person,"...because she could she others doing things & saying things easily, things she didn't get. She would mimic/ mask..."throw things at the wall to see what would stick "& use humor to engage the world. Kinda like a female Robin Williams. Zero filter, SUPER hilarious, but very tender...and drop dead gorgeous. Adding together the unexpected winsome forgetfulness of a severe TBI plus her diagnosis (& that of my father looking back after his recent death at time of diagnosis), it was a revelation...in one day.. one afternoon. Our whole world changed for the better! She could look at a situation acknowledge the weirdness , chalk it up to having an "Aspie plot twist," and move on. Becoming a step-Momma, a "Heart Momma," to our only grandchild was huge as well. Thank you for sharing & encouraging JP & his guests. You sound lovely & resourceful! Have a splendid day, Dearheart.

[@Joseph-cf2wd]

That was incredibly moving. May you and your partners life be filled with love and more love.

[@juliehoskinson9816]

Thank you! You just gave me great insight into my marriage and my severe challenges at times.

[@meeks4004]

I love having conversations like this..sadly, its hard to find people who understand how to have a discussion and not a debate. Many times people turn the discussion into a contest of "whos right and whos wrong" or they assume your trying to flaunt your intelligenece, instead of understanding the discussion should edify each other solely for the purpose of relating experiences, wnjoying each other's knowledge and coming closer to truth. At best, most people are only interested in what they have to say and as your speaking they are already formulating a rebuttal instead of actually building on the foundation of the discussion.. because of thisbi often find myself discussing deep matters with myself..its like playing mind chess with yourself..playing the offense and defense...

[@ProHater1]

'Mind chess with myself' I love it

[@lancezenner6177]

Meeks;. Very good point. Conversations that respect various perspectives usually are simply searching for truth in a reasonable way. Respect simply means ; to listen. Take Jesus's method of delivery to people he encountered who had doubts. He showed great patience and extreme understanding, yet confident in his message often using parables to get a point across. Many Christians fall into a Caiaphas type syndrome of arrogance. I think it's important that we always stay grounded and focused on the objective. Which is to Love.

[@onesolo153]

Preach 🙌🙌

[@lancezenner6177]

@@env0x Yes, very well said. I think it's defined by a single word that has been hijacked in today's society. The word is , " Respect". The root meaning for which simply means; " to Listen".

[@wardaddy9910]

When you have done extensive research and you find another person who has also done extensive research, when you both have a thorough understanding of information that intertwines, it is quite exhilarating and seems like you are speaking a different language than others who also have access to the conversation but don't understand what is being said. ..... If that makes sense. I have only had that happen once, most times it is just someone who has seen some comment about a subject so they bring it up as a comment to make people think they know what they are talking about. Although, if you have done the research, those people stick out like a sore thumb.

[@ElRey_Congo]

The revelations that each of them are having because of each other’s perspectives is truly awesome

[@stevecrawford6792]

Can't wait for Paul VanderKlay's breakdown of this conversation. So much energy.

[@timothydeneffe249]

😂😂😂

[@Barbie-K-W]

I bet Paul can't wait for Paul's breakdown of this convo either. 🤣

[@gracefullyyours6508]

So true This will keep him busy for a while lol

[@elliewest5011]

Paul's breakdowns are the best, can't wait to see his face when he gets a mention

[@mudhut4491]

There will probably be at least two parts and 4+ hours of breakdown on this one lol

[@MatthewMachanian]

My father was a truly brilliant man and often had conversations in this fashion (in professional settings). The interruptions are to skip nuance and get raw data. Dr. Peterson is a thinking machine and don't think I would have expected a different result. Socially, it is hard to digest but both men understand the processes. This was a fantastic conversation.

[@hermes11th]

Thank you.

[@Thomas_Geist]

I’ve been around people that were using cocaine while I was not. Conversations in that situation sounded very similar. The cocaine user usually comes off as in a state where they think what’s going on in their head is all that matters at the time. For someone in Peterson’s position he should have the capacity for sufficient self reflection to get this fixed. Aside from being distracting it is unproductive since no ideas get finished. I say, cocaine or he thinks he’s depressed but is really an undiagnosed manic-depressive and this is what a manic state looks like.

[@jennifs6868]

hm, while talking about numbers of views when John is deep into a thought. JP needs to do some breath training, imo.

[@DocFlamingo]

I got the impression is was pure enthusiasm alone.

[@olafweyer859]

Because there is no ego in the interruption, it's like how creativity works, the art must come out, the thought must come out, it's a puzzle piece complementing the other, the pieces need to connect, no ego or will drives it.

[@tamaralombard2916]

Both of these gentlemen learn while they teach. That's why I listen.

[@horizonized]

I really enjoyed hearing these two have this deep rap session. I don’t understand or get 90% of what they are saying, only snippets here and there, but I still listen through to the end. These two men are lucky to have each other. I’d go insane with that many ideas and thoughts running around my head and no sounding board from which to bounce them off of or talk them through with. Thanks to both men for this.

[@b.g.5869]

How can you enjoy something you admittedly don't understand 90% of?

[@horizonized]

@@b.g.5869if you don’t understand how I can enjoy seeing two people connect then no matter what I will say about it will make any sense to you.

[@JGSmith82]

This was like watching two kids on Christmas morning. Their voices were positively soaked with excitement.... this was great

[@domi-nick8890]

I'm kind of having a hard time writing this, but I think that Dr. Peterson was a bit overbearing and unfair with all those interruptions. I was really interested what his guest wanted to say and for some time it seemed like JP was only interested in showing off his 'Christian' perspective.

[@spacedoutofyourdimension1774]

This was pretty disrupted especially in the beginning but it got better by the middle. Also, I feel like JP really needed this conversation. It just seems that his interruptions come from a kind of hunger that seems to me to be motivated by the fact that he sees this level of interaction as something that can break his inner circle of thought in a refreshing way.

[@Astares9]

it's because he is onto something and he knows it

[@miriamcombe3033]

Couldn’t agree more.

[@dirtypure2023]

@@Astares9 This. And he's looking to other intellectuals and researchers in this space to either support or deny the direction his analysis is taking him. Being completely honest, I can see how it might come off as somewhat desperate or annoying to the average person, but if you've listened to and read enough JP then you can tell (as you said) that "he's onto something".

[@thomaslisankie342]

Maybe. I do find the constant interrupting pretty annoying and rude sometimes though

[@Snake-filledChimp]

@Sylvana Baptista That's a 100% misread. JP is insanely excited to be talking to this guy: He has so many ideas to share and is so interested in the subject matter that he is outright giddy and can't even contain himself.

[@Marystownband]

I come back to this time and time again. One of the most important and unbelievably beautiful conversations ever to happen in a public forum. I cannot thank you both enough. THANK YOU BOTH!!

[@deniabilityOG]

Can confirm, I am introverted and nature bound. I moved to a rural mountain area during covid - best thing I have ever did. I work so much better out here and with Covid bringing the office to my home laptop, it has truly been a transformational experience. No more trying to make it work in the rat race, much prefer taking the time to think and meditate in nature. Work smart, not hard!

[@TheGrubby96]

Thats awesome! Wish to find myself in the same situation after my studies! Well done :D

[@maps3321]

Awesome !!!! Good job

[@harrietgloria8792]

Okay!!!

[@ItsChrisFtw]

I'm only 15 minutes in, but you can tell Dr. Peterson is quite amped up in this conversation. Mr. Vervaeke is both brilliant and fascinating. I wish Dr. Peterson let him carry out his thoughts a bit more instead of interjecting so much. Still, I'm happy that Dr. Peterson seemed to really enjoy this conversation. He's looking healthy. Looking forward to the rest of this discussion.

[@LightStylePro]

Agreed. Engagement without constant interruptions would have made the “discussion” much more fluid and complete. The guest can hardly complete a full sentence. I’m guilty of doing this too. At least my wife tells me so 😉

[@timothydeneffe249]

It also could be due to the online format. He's mentioned several times that there is a delay in the audio which makes him think the other thing is done speaking

[@conejitoist]

I was thinking the same..I would like to hear what Mr Verv has to say..also..so far not much luck 🤔☺️ Love you Jordan Peterson❤️

[@ItsChrisFtw]

@@timothydeneffe249 Good point.

[@truenorth2615]

Thinking the same thing. I love hearing Jordan speak but find myself telling him shut up through the beginning parts of this interview...lol....he is too excited to have this discussion but it's interrupting the flow.

[@karensilver8853]

It is almost ecstatic experience listening to two brilliant men riffing off eachother. It's a privilege and I'm very grateful.

[@mariedarroch3305]

Yes Karen, Jazz

[@thefluentknight1208]

I find it funny how obsessed DrJordan is with learning these words he's never heard before it's sort of a child like curiosity. You can tell that they link well with his preferences for expression.

[@JoshuaFletcher]

This is one of the most enjoyable conversations that I have ever witnessed. Thank you.

[@aik1795]

One thing I really need is for Jordan and his guests to finish the conversations with book recomendations from the guest to follow his path of thought. Thats something we do a lot in Latam. Hope it happens! Great conversation!

[@nikolaikai940]

I really like this idea. I think I got like ... 10% of this conversation so some further reading would be appreciated.

[@aey8737]

What a wonderful idea!

[@ubertrashcat]

You don't really need a book to understand what John is saying. His video series is sooo good. Awakening From The Meaning Crisis. It may be the most important philosophical lecture series currently on KZbin.

[@brush200400]

I would like literature on God being outside human-created categories

[@williamschlass4598]

Brother, they referenced multitudes of authors. What you need is to take notes if you want to maximize the amount of learning you can do outside of this podcast/classroom.

[@jfish032]

I listened to the entire thing and while I don't have a clue what they're talking about, I do think they're onto something.

[@lilitbabajanyan7783]

😂😂😂

[@radrose4864]

I feel that

[@isthisjune8155]

😂😂😂

[@julianmerzbach7617]

I think so too

[@daniloribeiro3958]

reality

[@javedrizvi5739]

Intensely Psychedelic it is. Finished first 28 mins and I have spent 4 hours learning about words/terms used by both these Legends. Such a powerful rich content and what a delight to watch the leading brains interact while struggling to know the basic question of who we really are.

[@Cryptosifu]

Same here. I literally write down words I hear and then look them up. Definitely strengthening my vocabulary.

[@jonjacksongrieger255]

Bro, John Verveake is a government spook.

[@jay2033man1]

My comment may have been wrong. The interaction including the constant interjection on the part of Jordan is a manor of presentation that I'm not accustomed to, but it has created several powerful revelations throughout the podcast. I can see this method as being extremely effective if I look at this as a merge between dialogue and debate.

[@ericmhowardii8410]

These Beloved men are opening their figurative hearts to one another completely that is great.

[@tcl5853]

The advice to KZbinrs to keep content to 15 minutes is true when the content is frivolous. But when content is deeply meaningful a time limit is a pesky obstacle. In fact, time limits are the enemy of beauty, truth and the good. Keep it coming guys!

[@arcad1an292]

In short, you proved the necessity of the infinite

[@Keify101]

@@arcad1an292 aka Eternity

[@alisaruddell3484]

This is a rare conversation in which Jordan is more of a student than a teacher, interviewer, or host. I think that’s why he interrupts so often: he’s trying to metabolize John’s ideas with his own understanding, in real time and out loud, and he’s doing that in small chunks. Remember when Jordan says, “It’s horrifying AND great to talk to someone who knows a whole bunch of things I don’t know at all,” and right at the end, “It’s always nice to find someone who disagrees with your work, who could help correct it. That’s why I want to talk to you.” You can tell John is planting a lot of seeds (and new vocabulary) in Jordan’s mind. I’ve listened to all of John’s “Awakening from the Meaning Crisis” series and many hours of his dialogues with other people-I’m positive he’s not offended by the interruptions. Like John says near the end, “We’re just friends talking; this is like Tai Chi,” and later he uses words like “affection” and “respect” to refer to their dynamic. John’s always humble and gracious. For anyone who wants to hear him uninterrupted for hours, go check out his KZbin channel-it’s phenomenal.

[@michealhuver3043]

Exactly, you took that right off my mind :)

[@R3l3ntl3sss]

Yeah this is exactly what is happening

[@gertpietersen6287]

You are exactly correct. Substantiated by JBP asking him to go back and repeat names even checking their spelling when it's all being recorded, lol. Clearly invested on a different level than an interviewer

[@kelvinrivera3753]

How insightful is this comment tho

[@conniekoprowicz1238]

Yes, Alissa, I agree. It’s quite beautiful to watch and hear and experience their “dance.”

[@dpcsoup04]

As much as Jordan’s interruptions were frustrating, John really took them in stride. He talked over the interruption when passionate and necessary and it led to some amazing revelations between the two of them in an almost debate-esque way. Great stuff.

[@DoctorLazertron]

I agree and I think JP may have been a bit manic is all. Doesn't take any kind of bipolar to have some anxious ups and downs, I've been guilty of the same thing too. Still a good talk.

[@pattithompsett9540]

as john said 'we are friends having a conversation' yes, the interuptions can be a bit much but the exploration and learning from each other is exciting

[@judithwalker9694]

The whole conversation is a perfect illustration of the dialogical nature of thought that John started out by discussing. This is the first time I've seen Dr P so excited. I think it's first of all because they're old friends and second because they're both intensely focused on the same general topic -- thought/consciousness/the reality outside our thinking - from slightly different angles. They were feeding off each other and each was carrying his own thinking forward through the other one's input. If this is what academia looks like in practice, I've misjudged it all my life! It was exciting to see two fine minds thinking out loud together.

[@brennadickinson3562]

Absolutely!

[@stuarttimmis8637]

Yes Judith, definitely feeding off each other - the excitement of both can come across as aggressive, but that's what true academic conversations should be. I am afraid that many "modern" academics are too woke and easy offended to be able to defend their position in the way John and Jordan just have. Just look at how climate alarmists will not debate those with opposing thoughts, or anyone opposing the covid official narrative is closed down, smeared and slandered, where things are not allowed to be discussed and debated, just "defended" with argumentum ad hominen.

[@brennadickinson3562]

@@stuarttimmis8637 Bravo. Time to cut all the wishy-washy people-pleasing and get down to brass tacks, before they genocide the lot of us.

[@matthewvelazquez2013]

This is what academia will never understand that it should become. If academia saw this, she would be instantly murderously jealous.

[@highdesert5143]

This is the way people of similar intellect discuss subjects they are passionate about. I absolutely loved it! I’ve witnessed engineers, nurses, and musicians get just as fired up about their craft. The “interruptions” are part of the dance. Excellent podcast! Following these two was awe inspiring.

[@sparrowsknow8491]

This. Thank you. So sick of the negative comments

[@BR-hi6yt]

Yup, and speaking too fast ......

[@gregorymoats4007]

Yes, I absolutely agree and enjoyed it. Yet it simultaneously can be near maddening to begin to hear a thought being brought to light and then suddenly cut-off, repeatedly. It’s a fair criticism. Perhaps the guest of a podcast should be given just a little more space....

[@ToyokaX]

@@sparrowsknow8491 I watch it at 2.2 speed and it's less jarring because it's like watching a spar between intellects at higher speed. In fact, it feels a bit more natural because there's less silence (or whatever you'd call it) in between interruptions. Still as digestible, perhaps even more so, than listening it at normal speed!

[@eo6374]

A dance…where one is stepping on the other’s toes.

[@whatnew1331]

I feel like JP just took of the weights and got to converse at something more his level. I got chills.

[@diane7912]

That's JP being passionate about his love for truth! He's driven by the holy spirit. I respect this man so much. He is strong when necessary and vulnerable enough to be open to ideas and change. He's brilliant! Both men have my greatest respect!

[@janatpa1]

The best thing about this video is an introduction to John Vervaeke’s work. He is brilliant

[@Khendriix]

I know Jordan interrupted 1,000,000 times in this interview, but I really don’t care lol John & this whole conversation is pure fire. Brilliant men.

[@joshuaisenschmid4302]

I'm only at 15:02 and the constant interrupting makes is so hard for me not to cringe and concentrate.. which is sad because as you said the context is pure brilliance

[@vmvs1984]

Also 2:03:00 John speaks truth here and this is specially true in the West because in the East the importance of the Body is paramount. That's why they are so keen about nutrition whereas the 3-day fast is only mentioned about five times in the whole Bible.

[@LeapOfFaaaith]

You are witnessing both parties understand the depth of the things they are speaking about. They are talking for each other, not us. They are quickly adding huge amounts to their shared pool of knowledge.

[@steveunderhill5935]

JBP tells himself to shut the f up around 42min

[@justinmoore3121]

@@joshuaisenschmid4302 I don’t love the interruptions. Because I it ends up making it feel like the conversation is going in circle.

[@wallflower630]

A dinner party with these two would feel like a super nova event. :) It is awe inspiring.

[@rabidL3M0NS]

This conversation really is inexhaustible! My God the singularity is upon us, and it’s not merely technological..

[@nevadascaredme7436]

I am so happy to hear Paul Vanderclay mentioned here. I love JP, through JP I found PV and I've found enormous value in his conversations. He's the first person I've ever considered making a trip to visit their church simply to experience a thoughtful sermon. This is great!

[@dannyvoyles-presents-1087]

He is strring up a really interesting pot. Love that VanderKlay guy

[@janetbaxter6358]

Can't wait for the Vanderklay commentary on this one!

[@thomasdouglas9562]

To be fortunate enough to have the opportunity and privilege to listen in on such a fascinating discussion between two phenomenal intellects for free, is truly a blessing. What a time to be alive.

[@samanthac8244]

This conversation takes me back to my total confusion years ago as a college student trying to grasp the ideas of Kant vs. Descartes. Jordan I’m always in awe of your intellectual prowess; you are miles (kilometres) ahead of your students. I’m so glad you are back on track…you are a great gift to the world.

[@w.jackvancreaser365]

Human souls genuinely seeking truth! I wish more of us would participate in this endeavor...

[@joelkkid]

Clearly driven by philia sophia.

[@ChrisF133]

I’m a big Peterson fan, but the frequency of his interruptions in this interview are really next level, he doesn’t really leave John to get going

[@PrecisionEst]

Yeah was gonna comment the same , was like he was high on coke

[@luiscardenas1053]

No time to waste, everything's on the line.

[@user-mw4dx3nu7t]

Someone made the comment he’s back on drugs. This time aderral. Hard to tell

[@matthewdang131]

I think they were close in the university since both work at University of Toronto

[@nchomey]

It was absolutely insufferable, especially since the essence of the conversation was John teaching Jordan, and he wouldn't let him do so. As with everyone, he's his own worst enemy - he's far too enamored with himself, his ideas, his "wit", his voice, etc... It's one thing to interrupt briefly for clarification or to add something, but usually it was just a complete tangent or, worse, a shitty joke about t shirts. My saddest observation about Peterson is not that he's "wrong" about things but that he doesn't believe in his ideas enough. If he took his ideas to their true logical conclusion, he'd be considerably more content (which might help with his health issues) as well as more likeable. John appears, at a glance, to be someone who is immeasurably further ahead in his path than Jordan - he has patience, understanding, compassion, graciousness etc..., rather than everything being a big competition.

[@jamiepeay528]

"Where love rules, there is no will to power; and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other. " - C.G. Jung

[@CorpusKristieTN]

Have John Back!! We Need Looove these Depths!!🤗🤗🙏🙌🎉🌅✨🫂🔥💞🤲🙏🎊

[@spaulk777]

All I can say is wow! A true pleasure to experience that conversation.

[@rachel903]

I'm an introvert who seeks out nature in times of crisis. Just sitting in the sun, or the rain and watching the movement of the trees, the birds and clouds is so renewing and peaceful. The sound of rain both thrills me and calms me.

[@octavius428ball]

Me too. I was going to comment but u epitomised my thoughts. Thnx ;)

[@lancezenner6177]

Nothing wrong with enjoying the pleasures of God's creation. Their is a significant difference between the real person and a reflection in the mirror. Realizing that God's creations are not the subject of worship but like a photograph or picture of even a loved one is only temporary. This world is like an apple that will eventually fall from the tree, and after a while eventually rot away. The same for our physical bodies. That's very clearly understood. Yet we have as the Bible states an eternal soul. It's by faith that we come to believe. Note that we were given free will by the grace of God, and are free to choose. The Bible also says , The Lord God proclaimed that My ways are not your ways. Thus the reason we sometimes struggle. No one can force you to love them back. Even in the direct relationships we sometimes maintain amongst ourselves are subjected to a false sense of worship towards others which almost always become problematic. Peace and Love God bless you.

[@FreedominChrist45]

Yes totally agree..💞

[@vickiezaccardo1711]

@@lancezenner6177 Well said.

[@Trollificusv2]

Excellent. And (if I may) I think the experience you're describing there is more than just "appreciating God's creation". It's the realization that you yourself are part of that creation. That Oneness is very desirable, very positive, even "loving"...and I often wonder if that feeling comes from "God" or from our joyous relief at being freed from our everyday obsession with _philea nikea_ (knowledge with an eye towards victory/problem solving), and instead accepting...just being. But I recognize it.

[@aldreiong7679]

It's interesting how Dr. Peterson's colleague is able to engage him in such a conversation, it's as if they're speaking in the same language

[@MGHOoL5]

Vervaeke is STRONG. Check his 50 hours lectures "Awakening from the meaning crisis".

[@RepairRenovateRenew]

They know each other quite well, they both taught at Toronto & are in the same department

[@catdogfishdogcats]

24:24

[@roddydykes7053]

That’s probably why there’s so much talking over each other on this one. When you’re familiar with something, and it means a lot to you, and there’s very few people in the field at your level, you can’t help but interject as soon as something interesting pops into your head

[@ariannabauman8045]

@@MGHOoL5 0

[@martinorsomething1669]

24:24 Jordan Peterson’s laugh woke me up, that’s how wholesome it is 💯💯💯

[@mariedarroch3305]

I watch in awe a fierce struggle against pain, overcoming it by the sword of the Spirit subduing the flesh. No gladiator fought a more glorious battle. John ,such a humble strong gentle man. I am bursting with gratitude.. 92 yrs old and feeling the exhilaration of tasting the Honey of Truth being extracted from the comb.

[@davidhollywood3923]

Dr Peterson’s affection and respect for John is very rewarding to witness. Thank you both

[@Iad83]

I'm an introvert, and I can confirm that being in nature really helps me re-center and chill. I'll add that I love the sounds of the wind in the leaves, the chirping of crickets and birds, the rain falling on my head, the wind caressing my face, and the smell of flora in the air. It really does feel like I can sink into the world and become one with it, and I know how hippy that sounds, man.

[@vicissitude1210]

First time I hear someone liking rain falling on them :D rain water is so cold..

[@hiwhatexpectedarealnamewit8772]

@@vicissitude1210 try running in the rain for 6 miles when the sun is setting to a lake to swim in while listening to music 58 degrees weather high winds just to run back take a warm shower and sleep

[@hiwhatexpectedarealnamewit8772]

Yeah and has introverts do while we are in our rooms it's good to have a lot of nature like trees and plants around while we do our things it turns on a part of my brain that helps a lot like kinda a searching sensation like a travel and find situation. But there nothing like actually walking through a forest compared to even riding a bike some how a bicycle ruins the travel to somewhere even though it's faster and maybe more comfortable but walking and running is a must have in my life I can't live without it and routine was hdn you do go on for walks and runs go to the same place the same way you can change the place a big but still go the same path you'll learn the pros and cons and you'll get a scenes of the markers of how long you can last how strong is your body at a point like oh at this corner of this street my calf starts to get sore

[@kmalik6855]

I don’t believe man is that simple, meaning that he can be both an introvert and an extrovert in different phases of life. Journey may start as an introvert and through this period of reflection one acquires greater knowledge and confidence which may prompt a a new phase in life as an extrovert. But for a true thinker this phase after much experiences now becomes boring and once again one becomes an introvert.

[@hiwhatexpectedarealnamewit8772]

@@kmalik6855 I mean depends how much time you devote your time to introverting for the past 2 years I'd spent most of my time alone and not a lot exstroverting to the point when I forgot how loud to talk normal high and good bye small talk I left a lot of awkward moments in my life that just left people laughing on how introverted I was I could have look like more like a psychopath if it wasn't for my atoumatic empathy and assertiveness of what I think is right that iv went how laughing knowing how ironic and stupid when it comes to being extroverted mainly cause I'm open to new experiences I'm just naturally extroverted and saver the moments when I'm extroverted

[@joshgarner4763]

Your willingness to have this conversation is changing the world. Keep up the good work.

[@tyronbeard3624]

OMG!! I love to have a conversation like this and sometimes you just need to say "Oi, STFU for a second - i am trying to make a point!!" I really wanted to hear John prescribe what seems to be a profound insight into some of my favorite subject matter. Prof Peterson - I would have loved to hear your guest speak without so much interruption "Oi, Oi, Oi... PLEASE don't bloody well speak over me!!"

[@michaelmakemore633]

Dr.Peterson's Eyebrows are all the credibility I need.

[@TheCarlespuyol]

Man, I can tell - John Vervaeke is the beast. His lectures on the meaning crisis are super mind-opening. Highly recommended!

[@johnpalgrave9331]

I find these guys so lovable that when they laugh it brings tears to my eyes immediately.

[@M-Files]

I love how the stimulation of the conversation comes through in excited and rushed tones. This type of conversation is very invigorating.

[@lisalisa1060]

“You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.” St Augustine, Confessions

[@centexn]

Jesus says, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. Ponder on that as a discipline. Keep you busy for a life time.

[@jean-lucbattista2492]

So well put! This dialogue gets so close, they are praying/worshipping in truth yet only through Jesus can they be reconciled to intimacy, prayer/worship in spirit. That part is so simple, it is hidden to the wise, revealed to the "simple" in spirit.

[@akirathedon]

Yessss, at last! Been waiting for this. MEANING CRISIS AVERTED 🌊

[@stephenlaswell4341]

COULDN'T AGREE MORE MR. MEANINGWAVE!

[@lukesode]

Akira, your the man!!

[@iankclark]

Lol, if only. Perhaps as these conversations begin to seep into the cultural milieu. I must have hope or I wouldn't try to follow along. Thanks for your music!

[@mudhut4491]

🤍🤍

[@dannyvoyles-presents-1087]

Been noticing a subtle shift in your posts lately. Hoping it lead to a whole new Era of mind melting music mate. I'm dying to hear that remake JBPWAVE5!

[@chrisschene8301]

What an intense and deep conversation! Wonderful to listen to, but I think I'll have to listen 5 more times before I actually know what they are talking about. I increase my vocabulary when I listen to these podcasts as they use some words I don't know and I look them up. I picked up two new words just from their last 10 minutes of discussion: Otology and Phila Sofia. Which of Jacques Derrida's books are recommended by Dr Peterson.

[@andrewternet8370]

With everywhere this conversation went, this is frighteningly salient. I'm scared I can't know or explain all of this, yet it encapsulates how I am. God bless.

[@StoryscapeDesign]

As an extrovert and someone who thinks out loud, I get JP and his enthusiasm to jump in and engage often in the flow of dialog. A missionary once gave me a great tip to reduce this tendency for myself: Grab the largest mug you have, fill it with Herbal Tea, and every time you feel the urge to jump in, take a sip of your tea! When the cup is empty, then add one comment. Refill and repeat. Hope this helps ;)

[@ET2carbon]

Interesting.

[@smavidsmampbell914]

Yes, great guest. Will have to look for his podcasts.

[@DrummerJacob]

No, it doesnt help at all. I would rather just interject sometimes instead.

[@marcusgregoryrichardson22]

That’s a very interesting idea!! Thank you my brother ☺️🙌🙏🥰

[@VeniVizzleVici]

@April That's the point.

[@stephenbridges9915]

AMAZING TALK. My brain grew in 2 extra dimensions listening to that conversation.

[@onetime7408]

This talk is so clever, so beautiful. Yes prententious....and yes I need to read more! When they described love within a relationship I cried.

[@Noughtgate]

When I heard this at work today, it felt like history was happening. Such a beautiful and fruitful conversation

[@kennethalexander690]

JBP is interrupting but I think some comments regarding this are missing something. JBP seems to be learning. He sounds like an excited little kid. I think it's beautiful.

[@MessiGuitarist49]

Lol that’s exactly it. He’s also treating him like the guy with all the answers and he wants to make sure he gets all of his questions answered. I don’t think he’s trying to be disrespectful

[@emy_2510]

Agreed! 😁

[@smarty71693]

I had a thought that may have something to do with the dynamics of this conversation. Perhaps John's volume is too loud in his headset and is having an effect on the continuity of John's speech and also his thought process

[@thisguy9536]

Exactly ! I was excited for him lol

[@CastleClique]

he sounds like his doc put him on new meds

[@johnspy12345]

I've been looking forward to this... FOR. A. WHILE. At first, I was like "Jordan for god sake, let the man talk!" but it became very clear that John and he are two old friends, like two collegiate kung fu masters from branches of the same school, sparring once again for their own pleasure and learning, fully appreciating each other. For those that haven't watched their debate from 2015, it's a lot like this although it's moderated so you get to hear John complete most of his sentences.

[@Dilmahkana]

We just need Jordan Hall on the podcast now...

[@pete8299]

Hey, what were they debating over in 2015? How would you breakdown their basic differences in thought? I'm only asking for input because I can barely follow this conversation so I cant tell where they differ in opinion haha

[@pigswineherder]

I think you are being very very generous. Normally Jordan is clear and cogent, in this he is falling apart and lacking in self awareness, something is wrong.

[@anonsmith8463]

Right!? I was shocked by all the negative comments. I mean I found myself frustrated a few times when John was not able to complete a line of thought because Jordan was so excited to be catching up with his friend that he was verbally running him over, but that frustration was totally discounted by my gratitude for being a fly on the wall for such an engaging conversation. Also to see Jordan often in the unabashedly and enthusiastic learner role was pretty fun. Mahalo for your thoughts. :)

[@liamhackett513]

@@pigswineherder it all leads back to his own mouth.

[@for_your_entertainment]

@1:52:00 absolutely well spoken and very interesting points, glad to see Peterson letting John talk a bit more later on

[@crocodilegrundee4514]

I normally can’t stand when people repeatedly cut others off when they are trying to make a point. I have watched many hours of Dr Peterson, and I have never seen him interrupt so often. That must be some real good coffee he drank! He is normally pretty respectful of most people, so I can forgive him THIS time😜

[@mariannwarner3774]

I think Jordan’s interrupting is a sign of his enthusiasm around the conversation. It’s like a little kid who can’t sit still.

[@dvyssotsky5257]

2 words: drug use.

[@lightsoutlena]

Totally agree. He calms down later in the conversation. It feels like we are actually listening in on a conversation between good friends.

[@michelebergman4336]

@@dvyssotsky5257 yes somethings making him speedy? Maybe he’s on Adderall?

[@robhughes2832]

@@dvyssotsky5257 I did not interpret it that way. I have experienced such abundant enthusiasm for conversation, to be in the presence of a friend or combatant in the dialogue.

[@thewhiskeycowboy-official]

I agree, but it is still.... rude. And he does it a lot in conversations. I enjoy the conversations, but see this pattern that I believe Jordan would do well to moderate within himself.

[@arturolivares]

Trying to understand everything that is being discussed here without watching the Awakening from the Meaning Crisis series first, is like trying to understand Better Call Saul without watching Breaking Bad. You'll get it, but there's so much stuff you'll miss...

[@GimriZ]

Thank you for that comment, because of that I have found probably very worth to watch lecture series for my self!

[@epictetus9221]

Indeed

[@papercut7141]

@@freedomslunch ah yes the 5 basics we all learned in school

[@10kCrows]

@@papercut7141 😂😂😂

[@matthewshorney268]

I love this comment so much having watching all 4 things mentioned.

[@ron072684]

It's so nice to see someone who disagrees with some of Dr. JBP's work, still have and treat him with adequate respect. His critiques we're done kindly as a colleague and friend, not as an adversary unlike most people that disagree with anything Dr. JBP does. It's also refreshing to see someone who is able to talk about and teach Dr. JBP about a few new things and people that he wasn't aware of before. That was done several times during this interview. So much so that poor Dr. JBP had to stop for a few moments or have him completely repeat things.😁

[@ninaongpinbuhay]

How absolutely delightful it is to be witnessing such intellectually complex discussion/sparring/exploration between energies so very deeply concentrated upon evolution, expansion, love, light, and the striving towards those things that are purest of truths, this coupled with uncompromising observations of the self and other self, distilling those truths over and over , diverging, and alternately, repeatedly converging towards what is even and ever more true. I could listen to this over and over again, willingly diving headlong into this rabbit hole then another, brought into being by the intermingling of these two shining ones. Every cell in my being is smiling with each exchange and dissection of ideas 💡 😇🙏🏻

[@TheMrAbsolute]

I am going to have to listen to this 100 times for years to come, and read 100s of books to understand what is being conveyed during this conversation. Strangely enough, that didn't make it less enjoyable. It's like I just realised where the forest is darkest to me, by listening to a conversation that shoots over my head faster and higher than a fighter jet.

[@kaellito]

Yes indeed.

[@mandel12]

I agree, it was such a thrill. I felt the conversation inspire me, then ascend above me, and inspire me again.

[@MsLickalot70]

Tip: take the classes John has on his website under the "Meaning crisis" tab. This will make it all clear

[@devanrohrich]

I agree wholeheartedly. The true depth of that conversation was far beyond my current understanding but that is what keeps things moving. Something to aim at

[@waggawaggaful]

Well said!

[@MGHOoL5]

For people who don't know Vervaeke, he is STRONG! check his 50 hours lectures "Awakening from the meaning crisis".

[@carlh-thehermitwithwi-fi679]

they are great!

[@stephenlaswell4341]

been waiting for this one a long time

[@Wamagirii]

Oh yes...followed his series every week without fail.....I was introduced to very compelling ideas...

[@carrieb.5896]

Thank you! On it!!!

[@logoimotions]

yes, v good

[@mikey_atman]

What a wonderful, challenging, creative, inspiring discussion. This was great fun to watch and listen to. Gentlemen, hats off to you both. 🙏

[@whendarknessfalls6969]

The fact Jordan Peterson repeats new words, makes sure he's understanding it's definition, and writes down anything he doesn't know to learn about later. Proves he's built different then most!

[@MrSofuskroghlarsen]

Man, I'd wish that Jordan would be more considerate of letting Vervaeke finish his ideas. He is so immenesely interesting.

[@champat187198220]

I thought the same thing. Jordan seemed a bit manic in this discussion (which is understandably hard to manage). Perhaps it is just the excitement that goes along with such a deep conversation but it is hard to listen to such a barrage of interruptions and not feel for the other participant.

[@ngmanifesting]

I was thoroughly annoyed by Jordan’s constant interruptions

[@eury5405]

Yes, I was feeling that too. It was becoming tiresome.

[@fabriziobianchi4425]

Man, 23 minutes in and I couldn't go on. Super annoying. It's happening more frequently recently. He really needs to work on that.

[@del-marmare1646]

would've been courteous , I agree.

[@mangothejumpingspider7638]

Tell John to drop the reading list asap, I'm here squinting at his bookshelf sideways xD

[@CourageToB]

haha!! so funny - i actually stopped the clip and tried to magnify to improve my reading list :D

[@deepusastiya6611]

Go to his You Tube channel. In his series Awakening from the meaning crisis, every episode has a reading list in the description.

[@cass964]

@@robertogoodfellow would you mind sending me a pm so that I may pick your brain? I have never messaged on here and I don't know how lol but only if you'd like to!

[@no_special_person]

@@cass964 you could ask Robert to have a discussion with you by leaving a comment on your KZbin channel, other than that theirs not really a mode for pms.

[@AiMachineMelodies]

Iain Mcgilchrist's the master and his emissary is right above his head. That's the only one I recognize lol

[@ragman70]

As a layman this is the type of conversation that performs itself in my mind. It is what I consider time well spent when it manifests into a medium that I, can share in, with others, who are equally enthralled and inspired by the unconscious avatars that we witnessed performing the Greek wrestle dance. I’m on Vancouver island this month. Running into these 2 for a cup of coffee and conversation.would be a highlight of my journey, and it just was.

[@scotthorton9726]

Where do I start, mind blown. I dropped out of school at 16 in 1976 and embarked on a journey as an addict. I don't know why I survived it when so many I knew didn't. I got clean in 2010 and working a 12 step program, I learned to read and write. I've committed myself to learning more about myself and the world I live in and Dr. Peterson who I discovered on the Joe Rogan podcast, has been instrumental in this process. That said, I struggle with some of the words used but Jordan interrupting John, I believe was to help people like myself to be able to understand better the conversation. Thank You. This recovering addict is grateful for people like Jordan.

[@ayg2199]

if only people could spend their free time watching this instead of lurking around social media

[@here7036]

They can...

[@markkavanagh7377]

I'm doing both..........{:-D

[@khatharrmalkavian3306]

Ah, irony.

[@svvinia]

Aliens could spend their free time kidnaping people into UFO to make them watch and understand this

[@kyrileontiou7098]

True but they need to figure out why to listen to these podcasts cause we only do whats important to us

[@davidreeves2911]

two men left Plato's cave and found mushrooms, this is their conversation. so good to see Mr Peterson so enthusiastic and relaxed enough to be him self after his Dante journey

[@kennethcarter1323]

Yes, Jordan, as a polymath, has elsewhere shared that use of psychedelics is a doorway to the divine and transcendent realm as he expounds his Jungian styled pantheism which is an admixture of reductionism and a Jungian collective unconscious.

[@growgoodco]

Nailed it!

[@drcarlaj.mazzeo3534]

In late evening last (3/9/22), during conversation before bed with an old friend a bear came to my deck for some bird seed. I watch her eat, sitting straddled on narrow beam graceful. Then I wake recent sleepless nights 3am and listen to some podcasts and find myself here. The bear name discussed, so I had to share. Synchronistic - Thank you

[@javedrizvi5739]

Had the same reaction as John's on 31:17, every-time JP introduced a new topic or even at his jokes.

[@0ptixs]

Don't think I understood more than 10 minutes of this conversation, but it is good to see JP so ecstatic about this conversation you can really tell he's loving this

[@rudivandoornegat2371]

Stalk Paul vander Klay's KZbin channel this week for his reaction video on this video, where you'll find the translation in normal human language.

[@CastleClique]

Jordan: Please clarify that claim. John: I’d love to Jord- Jordan: I gotta show you my hand carved totem of myself sometime!

[@lawren100]

I'll show em a hard totem. The other id.

[@beluga2841]

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

[@Davehatessocialists]

U made me choke on my drink and cover myself in tea....10 seconds of pure joy worth the cleaning bill.😂😂😂😂

[@khazzar1]

What a great discussion. I can't wait until they speak again to assist in broadening my outlook and knowledge. The energetic flow of this and fleshing out of their ideas was such a joy to witness.

[@nathanlodder1006]

Listening to the two of you is like threads of silk tied around a single hook. Ideas persueing truth. Absolutely amazing! Can't wait for the next installment gents!

[@juliathomas6256]

I kept watching until the end even though I understood little and I realized I owe God thanks for men like these who were given the minds to comprehend and help us all.

[@erickabaum8508]

The interruptions don’t matter when you realize that they’re dancing, not dance-offing. And JBP is getting the other to repeat the steps so we can learn with them, while increasing the difficulty as they go. Beautiful. I’ll have to listen to this dozens more times to really appreciate it, but hands down a very great conversation.

[@theancientsam]

Have you had his book or any of the authors he talks about?

[@Fluffy-777]

This is kinda how I 'listen' but my husband finds it rude lol, my brain links things that seem random to him and all I want to do is add a 2 cent and then he can continue but to him it's nothing but a rude interruption and he probably feels like I'm not listening 🤷🏽‍♀️ He doesn't want to dance with me man 😭😂

[@kellygamino8807]

😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@davidhanson9985]

Couldn't agree with you more or have said it any better.

[@JamesDean-O]

I was somewhat annoyed but John handled it like a pro. Thankfully JP lost a little steam after a while.

[@wesleythiessen4781]

Love your thoughts, let others share theirs

[@andrewg7482]

Dr. Peterson, your videos are always wonderful and help make my life better. In the future, please slow down. Please give your guests the benefit of patience to let them fully finish their thoughts. I certainly like it when you are able to fully articulate the details of your thoughts when you are being hosted by other podcasters. Please provide your guests the same benefit.

[@meinking22]

Can we just say that Dr. Vervaeke is absolutely brilliant? I've read his book/essay and listened to his lectures on the crisis of meaning and formation of meaning. The man may be the most pre-eminent thinker in North America. He's truly breaking new ground.

[@vmvs1984]

1:23:43

[@wakeUPdummies]

@@vmvs1984 well, this entire "show" deserves that exact sentiment. Stating the obvious in exhaustive terms is not profound. All that this show opened my eyes to is that the KZbin audience must be a low iq crowd. I'm sorry, but, come on, man.

[@wakeUPdummies]

@@vmvs1984 the only reason that peterson would do that is to place himself in some sort of higher position instead of countering. That's all that a scoff ever is.

[@m-bronte]

I've never heard of him glad I found him, thx to JP.

[@Satan666Official]

@@wakeUPdummies The timestamp above still breaks down aspects of humanity into more digestible language for the audience, particularly those who are just now learning the subject. I question your logic for listening to the discussion at all if you truly have learned nothing new. That said, I could see how it didn't meet your expectations. It's better to stick to the literature in that regard.

[@smugprout5698]

It's comical to see how excited Jordan is with this interview to the point where he interrupts John every 30 second. By the way, the meaning crisis series of John vervaeke is absolutely stellar, and everyone should give it a try

[@crusadefortruth]

Its not comical. Jordan is on drugs.

[@HolyCow166]

@@crusadefortruth No pupil dialation. only the natural drugs already installed in the body

[@John-rd8no]

Every time John takes his mug, you know it's getting real (pun intended). The part about speculative realism with the relation between object and observer (John and the mug, 1:41:41) reminds me strongly of the endless process of becoming Deleuze & Guattari write about. Really loving this conversation so far, thanks for doing this!

[@Loriethalion]

This video is simply a masterclass in conversing with good faith and excellence. Legendary. Thank you for doing this.