After Socrates: Episode 23 - Dialectic into Dia-logos

Рет қаралды 5,671

John Vervaeke

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 34

@meinking22 Жыл бұрын

Guy really shines in the participation of Dialogos.

@The_Just_Be_Cause Жыл бұрын

As I've carefully listened to and emersed myself into this Dialectic into DiaLogos, I keep getting a very clear image of a room with two guitars. Provided they're Tuned the same, when a string is plucked, its equal hums. Attunement - A Tone ment. They Reasonate. This series has been an absolute blessing 🙏

@johnvervaeke Жыл бұрын

That is so beautifully apt!

@woodandwandco Жыл бұрын

Wow. I am absolutely flabbergasted by how genuine, fulfilling, and meaningful observing these practices was for me. I have always endeavored to create the atmosphere necessary within myself, but rarely has it occurred to me how much more transformative of an experience it is to engage in it with others with such clarity, determination, and focused attention. I am grateful for your openness and willingness to share this experience with others. Thank you.

@paul1887 Жыл бұрын

Instead of spilling the cup of Hermes, I pray that I may clean the inside of my cup. "It was this aloneness which seems to be the power of the Grail. Each individual had to call upon his own internal resources. He had to train himself, he had to dedicate himself, he had to consecrate himself. He had to master one by one the weaknesses of his own flesh, he had to overcome the temptations of ambition and avarice. He had to purify his own nature by a vow taken only to the highest part of himself. He must slowly climb that mountain, between his own material nature and the attainment of the enlightenment of his inner soul. " Manly P Hall

@paul1887 Жыл бұрын

Manly P Hall, "There was no way of joining something, or depending upon a group support, for the attainment of the quest. You couldn't become part of a congregation of the Church of the Holy Grail. Every part of it had to be individual. We were searching to become one with a communion with the saints, with those of the other life who had attained the illumination of the soul. This search had to be a personal dedication. Those who had achieved the search and finally beheld the Grail, became a company apart, but they were never organized. They became mutually knowing of each other because they had attained the same level of insight. This inevitably leads to a initiation for the knighthood. This took place in a church where the Knight would perform an all night vigil to become ordained into his order. Having thus dedicated himself, internally, by his own volition, he started out on a quest which no one could assist him. No one could do it for him, no one could walk with him, no one could prevent him from making mistakes. It was a lonely journey. A journey from illusion to light, from darkness to participation with eternal truth."

@idatong976 Жыл бұрын

Wonderful dialogue, thank you all.

@paul1887 Жыл бұрын

"The journey to truth, is a journey of a lonely person, to that which is eternally alone ."

@dalibofurnell Жыл бұрын

I wrote, I drew, I listened, I saw through and was inspired by that which I saw that was through the experience of the video. And beyond that as well as underneath that - under in the way of grounding- understanding and with new insight to a possible new perspective. A perspective that the observation of this process afforded some sort of creative expansion or stretching and warming up to more sophisticated movement in terms of my interpretation occured and then facilitated by me. And that applied to an appropriate instance could initiate a small bit of progress in life , growth as a person and an added sense of awareness that sheds light on certain depths. Therefore a type of extention of stability, and that taken into consideration, a balance between various states and aspects to my being, could more easily sync into place. And thus an enhanced sense of belonging makes sense to then occur. In reflection, what I got from this video is a bit of encouragement to take the next step and be bold to do that in courage. ❤ thanks John, for your efforts and God bless your heart ❤️

@filipesimoesdasilva8190 Жыл бұрын

Find a girl who looks at you the way John looks at Chris

@ruhdandoujon6310 Жыл бұрын

I trust that my following criticism of this episode will be well received , I repeat my gratitude for all what you do beforehand. If there was "fire" in this, I did not get a spark; I did not feel the "logos" or any other collective collective intelligence appearing. The participants said things and acted in conformity of what they had already exposed as being their thoughts in the series. They seemed to repeat them. I have nothing against friends praising each other, but there was maybe too much congratulation especially at the beginning for a public and pedagogic performance. All this made the performance too smooth to allow for the famous Socratic irony.

@emilioflores12349 2 ай бұрын

The Fire and the Path: A Dialectic Journey with Choices Introduction: Entering the Forest You and three companions stand at the edge of an ancient forest. Your mission is to uncover “dia-logos,” the deeper understanding that transcends everyday conversation. The path is unmarked, and only by working together will you uncover the way forward. Each of you carries logs-proposals to feed the fire that will light your journey. Ahead lies the first choice: will you prepare yourselves properly, or rush in unready? Step 1: Preparation - Centering the Self Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): The group marches into the forest without pausing to reflect or center themselves. Each person carries their logs close to their chest, eyes darting nervously at the unfamiliar surroundings. Before long, arguments erupt over which direction to take. Distracted by fear and self-doubt, the group becomes lost in the shadows. • Outcome: Without centering practices, personal biases dominate, and the group cannot engage in true dialectic. The fire of dia-logos never ignites. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): Before entering the forest, the group sits in a circle and closes their eyes. Each person practices centering exercises: focusing on their breath, grounding their body, and quieting their mind. They reflect on their intentions, letting go of ego-driven goals. • Outcome: The group enters the forest with clarity and openness, ready to engage with one another and the unknown. Step 2: Amplification - Building the Fire The group finds a clearing and decides to light a fire to illuminate the path ahead. Each person contributes a log-a proposal-to begin the process. Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): One person throws their log into the center and declares, “This is the only way forward.” Another person scoffs, “That’s ridiculous,” and tosses their log away. The group devolves into bickering, each defending their log without engaging with the others. The fire sputters and dies. • Outcome: When proposals are treated as absolutes or dismissed outright, the dialectic cannot progress. The group remains in darkness. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): The first person gently places their log in the center and says, “Here’s an idea I’d like to explore. What do you think?” Another person adds their log, asking questions to draw out more details. The group works together to stoke the flames, feeding the fire with curiosity and care. • Outcome: The fire grows brighter, revealing hidden paths and connections. The group begins to see the contours of the logos. Step 3: Appreciation - Honoring the Fire The fire burns steadily, casting light on the forest. The group pauses to reflect on what has been revealed. Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): One person takes control, declaring, “I know exactly what this means,” and proceeds to dominate the discussion. Others grow resentful and disengage, feeling their contributions are undervalued. The fire dims. • Outcome: Without appreciation, the group loses the richness of collective insight. The dialectic becomes a monologue. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): Each person takes a turn reflecting on what they see in the fire. “I notice how your proposal highlights a connection I hadn’t seen before,” one says. Another adds, “This part resonates with me, but I wonder if we could expand it further.” The group listens attentively, building on one another’s insights. • Outcome: The group gains a deeper understanding of the logos, strengthened by mutual respect and acknowledgment. Step 4: Aporia - Confronting the Shadows As the group ventures deeper into the forest, they encounter a dense thicket. The fire’s light cannot penetrate, and the path forward is unclear. Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): Frustrated, one person tries to force their way through the thicket, shouting, “Let’s just push forward!” Others stand back, paralyzed by uncertainty. The group splinters, unable to agree on a course of action. • Outcome: By avoiding the discomfort of aporia, the group misses an opportunity for deeper insight. The journey stalls. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): The group sits by the fire, acknowledging the impasse. “What are we missing?” one person asks. They allow the tension to linger, reflecting on the shadows and their own limitations. Slowly, a new understanding emerges: the thicket is not an obstacle but a clue to the logos’ nature. • Outcome: By embracing aporia, the group uncovers a new perspective and prepares to move forward with renewed clarity. Step 5: Anticipation - Following the Light The fire burns brighter, its light revealing multiple paths. The group must decide where to go next. Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): One person insists on taking the path that feels safest, ignoring the fire’s guidance. Another rushes ahead without consulting the group. The fire flickers, its light unable to keep up. • Outcome: Without trust in the process and each other, the group loses their connection to the logos. They wander aimlessly. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): The group gathers around the fire, observing how its light interacts with the forest. “The fire seems to be pointing us this way,” one says. Another adds, “That path feels uncertain, but I trust the process.” Together, they choose a path, allowing the fire to guide them. • Outcome: The group moves forward in alignment with the logos, trusting both the process and one another. Step 6: Transformation - Becoming the Fire After hours of walking, the group reaches the heart of the forest. The fire burns higher than ever, illuminating not just the path but the travelers themselves. They see each other and themselves with new clarity, transformed by the journey. Scenario 1 (What Not to Do): The group attempts to control the fire, each person pulling it in a different direction. Their egos reassert themselves, and the fire begins to die. The group leaves the forest unchanged, burdened by the weight of their untransformed logs. • Outcome: When participants cling to old identities and resist transformation, the dialectic fails to reach its full potential. Scenario 2 (The Right Way): The group offers their final logs to the fire, surrendering their assumptions and attachments. They allow the fire to burn freely, trusting it to reveal what they could not see before. The fire becomes a shared presence, embodying the logos. • Outcome: The group emerges from the forest transformed, carrying the light of the fire within them. They are no longer travelers but torchbearers, ready to bring the lessons of the dialectic into the world. Conclusion: The Torchbearers’ Legacy The dialectic is not just a journey but a way of being. By choosing to prepare, engage, reflect, confront, trust, and transform, the group uncovers the deeper truth of dia-logos. Each step offers a choice, and in choosing the right way, the group learns that the fire they kindled together is not merely a tool but a living presence, guiding them toward understanding and connection. Their journey serves as a map for others, a reminder that the path to the logos is both demanding and rewarding. It is a process of co-creation, where what is revealed is not just the truth of the world, but the truth of ourselves. -Emilio Alejandro Flores + Chatgpt

@emilioflores12349 2 ай бұрын

The individuals then discuss what the fire meant and the trip and they doodle all the mistakes, someone then comes in and says the only way to know what we did right is to talk to the individuals that disnt succeed in the forrest and then we will know ourselves bd why we were able to get through the forrest only thenwill we come to perceive what the fire meant. They then realise the correlation of the forest and the correct way to dialogue about what the fire is. And therefore to dialogue into dialogos about everything

@martinchikilian Жыл бұрын

Beautiful.

@ToriKo_ Жыл бұрын

Wow those first twenty five minutes were so fucking beautiful, I did not know it was even possible to slip into something like that in such a real way

@danielmartines3859 Жыл бұрын

45:09 resonance needs to be online! Don’t forget that.

@ruhdandoujon6310 Жыл бұрын

After having had a "dialectic into dialogos" experience for the first time I am rethinking about the exercise. Obviously we are proceeding in these exercises without a "Socrates" who is more "learned " than the others in many ways and who is giving direction to the dialogue. I'm sure this question has been addressed somewhere in the series but although I am a careful reader of the series I have not come across it and I have not dared ask the question live afraid of offending in some sense. I am curious about the ways in which maybe the sprit of the dialogos is altered when there is no Socrates. There is ignorance yes, but it is "learned". The lesson in humility for everybody in the end isn't it thought by someone who is more learned than the others: Socrates? Isn't being a midwife something learned?

@paul1887 Жыл бұрын

The alchemist and mystic were taught, that the transition from this world to the next, is not a death. The perfect acceptance of this life overcomes the illusion of the reality of death. In other words, life can be transformed but can never die. Manly P Hall paraphrase

@MrRickkramer Жыл бұрын

When will you post your 9 hour long recent recording with Bishop Maximos? I’ve heard through the grapevine you’ve had good talks!! Sorry for reacting off topic but your most recent video seemed like a reasonable place to ask my question.

@cathiemckimm6677 Жыл бұрын

You’d expect fire to burn through a log. Science. But Jesus walked on water and the fire that Moses witnessed did not burn through the bush and consume it. Where propositions fail poetry takes over. Or better still silence. The language of God.