Joint Venture Ep.60: Sumiyoshi double tenon (Japanese Joinery)

[@DorianBracht]

Happy new year! I'm still very much alive and kicking, just very busy. I moved shop and am still getting used to it. You will see some views of the new shop in the next video, wich will hopefully be done a bit faster...

[@honeybadgerisme]

Happy New Year & congrats on the new place! Thanks for showing your excellent workmanship! It is always a work of art! +I built a freestanding (4x8) "wall" we were told not to put anything on the *rental* walls--& with a wall mount tv...! Anyways--you inspired me to try and use some joinery--what I did--compared to you is laughable--but so serviceable & strong thanks to some simple joints! Cannot thank you enough!

[@jimurrata6785]

Thank you for your content, Dorian! Your channel is always so inspirational. Wishing you a happy and rewarding New Year

[@gunterschone8402]

Euch auch ein Gutes neues Jahr. WOW, da hast du ja einiges auf der Liste gehabt bezüglich des Umzuges. Na da lass ich mich überraschen auf die Bilder der neuen Umgebung. Da wünsche ich dir viel Glück und ganz viele neue Ideen!

[@bobwitt305]

How would this joint be used? What are the advantages? To my mind, lifting that dovetail into place would, in theory allow it to back out one day and racking of the joint could also force it open? In going to have to cut one of these. Great work.

[@chrishacker7551]

Your videos are amazing. I am building a table using a few of these joints you have shown. How would you join two boards to lay flat on top of each other to make it twice as thick?

[@Uswesi1527]

Certainly, the design is unique. The accuracy is perfect. But , the workmanship is far beyond and above description. Thanks always.

[@Uswesi1527]

Definitely, the Master Craftsman is in a unique class of his own. No doubt.

[@dkline74]

The wood chisel is without doubt the most sensual of all the hand tools.

[@flumpyhumpy]

The thing with Japanese joinery is, I'm as impressed with the craftsmanship it requires to do it as much as I am impressed that anyone figured out the design of the joint in the first place.

[@Bob_Adkins]

I admire the skill, knowledge, and patience it takes to make good joinery. Even more, I admire the time you can take. Everyone in the world seems to have more time than me.

[@SirDominic]

I think this must be one of your most complex joints to date. I gave up early on trying to figure out how it was supposed to work as it melted my brain a little. But seeing it all finished was worth it. Thank you once again. Happy new year to you

[@prcekveliky4740]

It has to be very satisfying moment when both pieces finally fit together.

[@intrinsic7494]

Incredible. Well beyond awesome, I was actually frightened by how accurate and precise your work is, compared to my basic level.

[@DorianBracht]

Hahaha, thank you!

[@PaulMurrayCanberra]

It seems like too much work, until you remember that buildings made this way last for hundreds of years in an earthquake zone. I love that pattern steel chisel. Unlike all the swords, it gets used every day to do what it was made for.

[@mudgem3742]

looks nice, but i wouldn't trust it to hold anything, as from an engineering viewpoint, it's a weak joint.

[@crwelch12]

cutting a bunch of holes in it doesn't make it stronger just prettier.. i don't see it structurally doing better than cutting a hole and sticking it in or going halvsies. those are the official names and no one can convince me other wise

[@3fast5you]

I have no knowledge in this area, this is just something I heard: It's not that this is stronger than anything else. It's that the joints have more "wiggleroom" compared to shit that is nailed together. If it's nailed together, it will snap because there is nothing that gives. I don't remember how it was phrased, "wiggleroom" might be a wrong word, because clearly this is pretty fucking tight. I guess maybe the joints resist vibrations more, or something like that.

[@renaissanceman5847]

the smarter people wouldn't build in an earthquake zone to begin with ...

[@angrydragonslayer]

@@renaissanceman5847 they would if they were born in japan at the time when this was created

[@dillanmistry]

This motivates to make joins like this in life, not even a machine could do that

[@lawrencecole6527]

I was lucky enough to receive a set of chisels for the holidays this year and it was because of videos like this that I asked for them. Satisfying work so far in even the fooling around I've done. You can do it! Go for it!

[@dillanmistry]

@@lawrencecole6527 same here just kinda need to find how to sharpen them

[@Someone-hs5yb]

@@dillanmistry Water stones

[@constantinosschinas4503]

till they make the machine of course. cannot see why a 5 to 7 axis cnc cannot reproduce such volumes eith a combination of drilling, sawing and chiseling, mimicking hand. but that is not the point. woodworking by hand is noiseless and a unique, relaxing and soothing experience. this last quality can never be replaced by any machine, ever. i hope.

[@Someone-hs5yb]

@@constantinosschinas4503 Agree

[@kymion]

Meanwhile I'm getting pretty good at drilling a perpendicular hole.

[@jopperdepopper]

I'm still searching for my drill...

[@ricos1497]

You should do a video. I'd love to see it.

[@nazirahmad4179]

You are damn better than me.

[@andwjy]

Huh, nice... I'm still trying to learn how to hold the hammer...

[@JgHaverty]

Dont use someone elses skill to belittle things you're developing mate. Its not fair to you or them. I am aware this comment is tongue-in-cheek; but its also a common thing in general as well. Develop what you have, learn something new. Give yourself time to grow and no, not tomorrow, not next week, not even next year, but some point you'll look back "man I cant believe I didnt even know how to drill properly! lol".

[@ApexWoodworks]

Dorian, that's one vert tight-fitting and complicated joint. Now, I've got to tell you out front that because I'm a "quick and dirty... but accurate simple mortise and tenon woodworker", I will never bother going to such efforts to make such a joint. But, hey, it was very impressive to watch it being made, and especially being driven home at the end. Thanks for sharing this with us.

[@11jdstein]

Just the amount of time to lay out all your lines and marks is unbelievable, let alone the time to chisel the detailed cuts. Amazing!

[@poelmeister]

Measure first, joy later.

[@archerry6457]

A few minutes in and I can already see this bloke's not leaving enough filler relief. I'm no Monday night quarterback either, I'm a master filler of almost 40yrs.

[@glenntaylor6201]

Show us some of your work then.

[@archerry6457]

@@glenntaylor6201 self-deprecating humour lost on you? Read it again carefully and stop being so quick to take offence on someone else's behalf. 😏

[@nickhenscheid369]

Wow! It looks fairly simple on the outside, but turns out to be a very complex joint. The ramp/wedge mechanism is very elegant.

[@youtukang]

☺🙏🙏🙏☕

[@j4ur14]

most satisfying 16:00 minutes of the day. Thank you sir.

[@MikeAG333]

Superb, Dorian. The marking out.......wow

[@brolly414]

Mesmerising. Thank you for so generously sharing your skill.

[@juniordelgiorno5260]

Definition of true craftsmanship. I am in awe of your skills

[@flumpyhumpy]

I've just discovered this channel.... I'm going back to episode 1 and starting from the start. Amazing. To think there's at least another 59 of these videos. Thank you.

[@michaellee8198]

Superb demonstration of true craftsmanship.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@paulorth2251]

Now that is craftsmanship at its best.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@MrHantz101]

These videos are more satisfying to watch than any automated machine doing it's job

[@WDMtea]

I don’t know what to say, simply amazing.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@lbebjl]

So great seeing the pieces materialise. As honestly... I got to about 1:30 and my head started exploding.

[@youtukang]

Hyy friend 🙏🙏🙏☕☕👌👌🇮🇩

[@olivvapor4873]

I though that was pure wizardry at first ... but in the end this only pure genius and incredible skills ! ...

[@Myrddraal12]

So glad to see another video from you. I have tried 4 of your joints. All ended pretty gappy. I will keep trying it is somewhat of a calming thing to do. I don't have good chisel or good saws though so not expecting perfection.

[@adventure461]

I cannot find the words to describe your achievement !

[@kevingerald8286]

That is an unusual, ingenious and beautiful joint - I love it!

[@mallendo]

Masterful! This is high carpenter art. I'm excited.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@vincedupont]

Yes, this is fascinating. Congratulations Dorian.

[@marson8870]

The best, as usual. Very cool the trick with the colored pencil.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@jean-claudeduc8995]

Travail de qualité d,une grande précision qui demande beaucoup de patience et d,une grande dextérité. Un plaisir à regarder du matériel ainsi qu,un artisan au top. Bravo à vous il ne manque que l,odeur du bois 👌👍👏

[@MichaelFord]

Always like you videos and this is a bit longer that normal. I hope the shop move was a sign of prosperity.

[@markgoode4109]

Outstanding workmanship and a beautiful joint; it was a pleasure to watch and learn. Thanks for sharing and best wishes. :)

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@gunterschone8402]

Schönes Video, Dorian. Wünsche guten Rutsch gehabt zuhaben. Klasse Verbindung ist das! 👍🏻💪🏻 Schöne Woche gewünscht.

[@michaeldillon4070]

Beautiful workmanship - congratulations

[@totobill22]

Toujours un plaisir d'admirer ce genre de menuiserie ! Merci et meilleurs voeux à vous

[@patrickduncan5712]

Thanks for adding more time with the mark up. Just amazing work.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you very much!

[@SPUDMACKER]

Happy New Year! Thank you for another stunning video by a Master Craftsman. Please stay safe and good luck in the new workshop.

[@troystaten5633]

Very neat joint. Thanks for showing us and happy new year.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you! Happy new year!

[@tomdenny8507]

A beautiful joint, beautifully done.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@omarwilson3543]

Your marking out is outstanding 👍 you should teach a lesson on the subject?

[@ToolNut2024]

couldnt agree more! I’ve felt that marking out accurately and neatly judges how successful the remaining parts of my task unfolds

[@poelmeister]

Breathtaking, Dorian. Master work.

[@estevanjuarez9571]

Hell yea Man U got the chill music back F yea bro nice joint bro I enjoyed every min of it

[@shawndoggett8404]

Now that was nice!!! Very clean as always.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@lombezziroberto]

Una vera opera d’arte! Complimenti👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@DorianBracht]

Grazie!

[@bozoleclown8856]

Absolutely beautiful. Thank you and congratulation for your work.

[@craiganderson4677]

Stunning, thanks for showing us your skills

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you for watching!

[@robertbrunston5406]

You make the most awesome joints Dorian! Thank you for sharing.

[@quixotedelamanche]

You should test the strengths of all these different joints. Hang weights or whatever, in certain directions (horizontally, vertically), and you could produce some really interesting results. You've already got a decent constant with the wood type, it seems to be the same each time

[@JgHaverty]

There is a point where these joints become a statement of artistry and a display of skill. I can assure you, a normal through tenon joint is going to be strong enough for any practical loads that the wood itself is even capable of; and in particular a joint of this nature isnt really going to provide you anything exceptional in terms of raw strength. Practicality taken into consideration, these joints become a fundamental "waste of time". Instead we should revere the artistry, the skill of the wood worker, and the quality of the aesthetics instead of "how strong is it?". In terms of "strength" theres no joint possible that will ever be stronger than ... wood glue. If your concern is strength, then theres your answer.

[@quixotedelamanche]

@@JgHaverty Thanks, I didn't know they'd all be roughly similar in strength. I think we can do both though, appreciate the art and be curious about utility (via the measure of strength).

[@JgHaverty]

@@quixotedelamanche I understand and appreciate your desire for objectivity and comparison, but theres also a fundamental thing thats not being taken into account -> wood is a biological thing, and each piece has its own makeup, so comparing one joint to another is hard to do without a large quantity to make an average. Normally, I'd be right there with you, but there is a point where "good enough" is "good enough" as well. Basically there is a general way to look at this though. With these more and more complex joints; we are fundamentally increasing surface area between the two pieces. This increases the strength of the joint... But, as these surface areas rise; we are also proportionately reducing the size of the individual pieces as well as creating more points of shear stress. This reduces strength of the materials. So it becomes a trade off of material strength to joint strength. Theres obviously an ideal equilibrium point here; but for the contexts these joints are used; most of it is going to be largely irrelevant as well. What SHOULD change is the joint type in regards to the primary direction of forces being applied. Rotational torque? Maybe dont have a face joint. Perpindicular (up and down) force? Maybe dont have thin tenons. Compressive and Tensile forces? (back and forth) maybe use dovetail style joints and tenons (think goose neck joint if youve seen it) . For lateral forces, the goose neck joint only gets stronger as they tend to move further apart. BUT if you apply that same pressure and force perpindicularly? Its not going to be very strong at all. Im almost positive you've seen him already, but if you havent, you should really check out William Ng's videos. Hes an amazing craftsman and joint maker. I do hope you get my point here though; if you dont, lemme know if you need clarification; otherwise thats really how it just needs to be looked at though.

[@JgHaverty]

@@quixotedelamanche For some reference though; I'm an engineer by profession. Im not really speaking from a "Woodworkers" point of view here. Material science is pretty much my bread and butter.

[@samsungtv4u]

Then add a square Walnut dowel to look it up and it's the best connection I have ever seen...

[@brettsuydam]

I'd love to see an example of the joints in use, to understand how they are transferring loads.

[@yamahantx7005]

Look at japanese temple repair videos. Those temples are hundreds of years old and have withstood many earthquakes.

[@RaduB.]

So intricate! It makes you wonder how did they get to this solution...

[@pendechogajewski5044]

it's beautiful. I envy such skills. Greetings from Poland

[@constantinosschinas4503]

wow. still trying to understand whether the fully inserted joint has any internal gaps, apart from its central V, and if that V acts like a tension spring. wonderful work. i should recreate it in 3D to study it better.

[@diminished2nd]

I'm pretty sure there is tension, as that's why the hole would be drilled in the mortise (to prevent splitting). Just like in a regular wedged mortise.

[@BencLin]

That's some smooth work man.

[@smuhhhh]

Cool joint, would be interesting to see how the two parts go together

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you! What do you mean, I assemble them in the end of the video?

[@scherenschnitt6333]

Wow! Almost perfect! Awesome work.

[@latro_8078]

such a beauty of a joint, great work!

[@jjjjj6746]

Very impressed with The Detail

[@adoptmeeverything]

Beautiful work. Inspirational.

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@ursupator1]

Das hat mit Handwerk nichts mehr zu tu!! Das ist Kunst und er ist Künstler von Beruf.

[@DorianBracht]

Kunsthandwerk 😂

[@davidhallard7427]

Brilliant. Do we know the historical circumstances for which this joint was designed?

[@poelmeister]

Because it was possible.

[@johnelwer3633]

This is also used in the Roubo workbench.

[@liaquthussain7112]

Happy New year to you and your family

[@JeffMartinez648]

That is absolutely crazy amazing!!!

[@GONZAGA6611]

Para un super-trabajo, un super-cerebro, con el uso de muy super-buenas herramientas, felicitaciones , es un video de otra dimension !!

[@michaelrosenlof1084]

Excellent job-Very nicely done-Thank you✅👍

[@LimitedGunnerGM]

Love the red marking. I’ve done it with MDF and cheap wax marking pencils from the hardware stores.

[@DorianBracht]

Works as well!

[@kristophermarsh9400]

As always, beautiful. Thank you

[@topis6987]

So satisfying

[@wony_wood]

Great tenon!! never ever seen. Thank you for good video

[@mattooi4322]

I wish I had the time to learn to do this. Looks great

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@ThatNiceDutchGuy]

3:54 awesome technique!

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@mmocny]

Excellent work, Dorian! I was wondering if you ever have, or perhaps ever would make a video answering the question: Which joinery methods did you discover that are the most practical and surprisingly under-used? In other words, which joinery methods do you wish we all knew more about, or surprised aren't used more often? No doubt most of the joinery methods you demonstrate are beautiful and functional and an absolute joy to learn to cut... but I'm really not sure when I would specifically choose to reach for a "Sumiyoshi double tenon" joint unless I want the challenge & fun of it, if you know what I mean? Cheers!

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you! I would say the shachi sen splines are extremely underrated in the west. Used them in a couple of videos.

[@yournway]

Stunning work Dorian, the precision level you have attained over the years is scary for us mere mortals... But what really blew me away were the Japanese chisels porn display, and the amazing guideless angled cuts with the ryoba. Thank you for keeping our skills on check ;) .

[@martymarqueterie]

happy new year Dorian!

[@DorianBracht]

Happy new year!

[@jonq8714]

Are all these in a book somewhere? I love this series.

[@flanky]

+1 for the book :) @Dorian Bracht

[@PeppoMusic]

That's a beatiful looking tenon surface, interesting friction joint! That mortise is insane though, with the inset slopes, those are some difficult angles to do purely by feel... Any particular reason why you prefer using that Mitsubishi colored pencil over just simple graphite for basically the same effect of finding high spots?

[@jimurrata6785]

Graphite is messy and dirty. It smears and gets in the pores of the wood, even from your fingers. I have never used a Mitsubishi pencil, but a Con'te crayon works much the same.

[@windhelmguard5295]

graphite gets everywhere. put a few grains in someones shoe and it'll have moved up to his face in a few hours.

[@atolawanglangit]

glad to watch your new video sir

[@oldmanfromscenetwentyfour8164]

Happy New Year! Excellent video!

[@leoandscorpia]

what kind of loads is this joint designed for?

[@carlosmartinez2121]

this is wonderful. Very very nice !!

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@Lenikinski]

Such an amazing work

[@nosaltiesandrooshere7488]

👍 Danke fürs Hochladen! 👍 Thanks for uploading!

[@lenlunn5625]

Again great work

[@knuckletherapyserveothersf6092]

Skills bro . Nice job

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@calvinletigre7687]

Is that possible to Tell us (cluless like me) in what circonstances it can be used ?

[@sleim754]

I believe that this is called a raising dovetail. It can be used for attaching legs to a work bench, or in the case that I used it, on a saw bench. This joint allows you to have the leg flush to the front and have a very secure joint.

[@luismigueldominguez5487]

Sería maravilloso, que hicieras los ensambles con medidas y ángulos, para que nosotros pudiéramos repetirlos, muchas gracias por enseñarnos, maestro.

[@Byaryu]

Que dice el gramil???

[@thecrazyisreal]

I've been trying to find a reason to buy more marking gauges!

[@donnadimeo]

Amazing work! I’m going to use the crayon marking trick. I’m actually surprised that you drill out your mortises. Why did you put the drilled hole at the end of the tenon? Thanks for showing the layout just a little longer.

[@diminished2nd]

That hole will prevent the wood from splitting when tension is put on it as it's put together

[@charanjitsingh7668]

Good work 👍

[@noiz82]

very nice work

[@DorianBracht]

Thank you!

[@TheBottegaChannel]

Fantastic job! Reminds me of a one sided version of a woodworking mallet Abe Lincoln developed that was featured on the woodwright's shop magazine. For your next Joint venture, would you please make that mallet?

[@DorianBracht]

You can see the Third Coast Craftsman's video on the mallet.

[@TheBottegaChannel]

@@DorianBracht, much obliged for the response and info. I'll check it out.

[@80211Denver]

I have been waiting for you to do this one! Fantastic. I wish you had a second pair of blanks with more visible pencil lines for the original layout. I understand the need for accurate fine marking knife layout but... I can't make out the plan from the video.

[@DorianBracht]

Thanks! Check out the book 'wooden joints in Classical Japanese Architecture' . It's featured in there.

[@JulianSanchez-rl3gz]

MIL GRACIAS MAESTRO POR COMPARTIR SUS EXPERIENCIAS.

[@gerhardp.4629]

An artist

[@leehaelters6182]

I have often wondered what the application of this joint might be, since the dovetail does not provide resistance to withdrawal any more than a conventional twin tenon; unless it is job security for the craftsman.

[@maksqwe1]

Aesthetically pleasing joints on furniture builds?

[@ptyx42]

A dovetail allows disassembly in 2 directions (up/down). This joins is closer to a blind dovetail that would only allow disassembly in one direction, except that one direction is a weird 30 degrees out rather than simply up or down. It could be used where wedging, another part of the assembly, or just gravity ensure there is no movement in that direction. Or maybe its main purpose is just to get people scratching their head, as it appears impossible if you only consider assembly along the 3 standard axis.

[@leehaelters6182]

@@ptyx42, trying to follow you. Let’s talk about axes, rather than direction, since I think that up/down mean a single axis. How many axes can a dovetail joint be assembled or disassembled in, please?

[@ptyx42]

@@leehaelters6182 picturing an actual dove tail for orientation, a full dovetail joint can be disassembled by pushing the bird (and tail) up or down. If the dovetail is at the angle of two pieces rather than a sliding dovetail, like the dove on the ground, it can only be disassembled by lifting the tail straight up. The joint in the video requires pushing the dove down and forward at an angle. (And sorry, I used blind dovetail improperly)

[@leehaelters6182]

@@ptyx42, as you said, I reckon the whacky headscratching appearance is function enough.

[@davidwebb2669]

Dorian can you tell me where I can get more how to information on the Japanese style joinery?

[@TermiteUSA]

How many times can a joint like that be driven together and taken apart? Beautiful layout and work.