Joker: Folie à Deux should not exist... | Video Essay

[@A.I.WarFare1947]

I used to think that my life was a tragedy, but now i realize it's a musical. -Arthur 2024

[@SMoK177]

Well, no shit. What have we got here? A fucking comedian. Private Joker. -Arthur 1968

[@WaylanderLloyd]

Joker 2 definitely feels like "Noooo you got the wrong message from the first one. You weren't meant to like it. You don't understand, Arthur is bad. Fine I'll make it clearer"

[@blahblahblahblah729]

Right? That sucks

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@blahblahblahblah729 I thought it was only to call out incels? Not the general audience unrelated to them?

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@blahblahblahblah729 I thought it was only to call out incels? Not the general audience unrelated to them?

[@Jaco059]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674it’s horrible dudes either way this is why Hollywood is awful I mean the pedos too

[@sycofya1677]

Nah Joker 2 is just closure to the first one. It was tragic and epic. 9/10 🏆

[@KrytoRift]

In what world would any judge let a defendant wear clown makeup in court?

[@unicornhunter9916]

Gotham, perhaps

[@KrytoRift]

@unicornhunter9916 😅 fair enough but this movie clearly doesn't understand how court works lol

[@KrytoRift]

@moon-moth1 right, if that were actually the reality of this universe up to this point but it's not. This movie wants to be grounded but it's ridiculous

[@EthanG298]

probably a fictional one mate

[@KrytoRift]

@EthanG298 doesn't that break immersion?

[@ThePenitentSquirrel]

If Arthur getting gang graped and then stabbed to death by the 'real joker' isn't a sign the Director hates his first film, its success and you then what the hell is?

[@118eighteen]

This story makes Arthur the authentic Joker and Heath Ledger a copycat. That makes it even worse. It effectively turns the real joker into a coward and weakling while simultaneously making the Heath Ledger Joker fake and disingenuous. Great writing.

[@ThePenitentSquirrel]

@@118eighteen well.... when you say it like that... yeah lol .wait.. I will up the ante, you know what really sucks? the most iconic moments from The Dark Knight Returns are now marooned on freak failed franchise island !

[@harrison_williams]

He hasn’t donated the money, so I assume he’s glad it was a success. Maybe he’s just a coward and felt pressured to tell the fans to f*ck off?

[@Death_4444]

​@chrislancaster It's in a different universe. That was not Heath Ledger Joker.

[@Death_4444]

​@@118eighteenDifferent Harvey Dent, Different gotham, different Bruce, no Harley Quinn, etc.

[@nicholasfruin1]

Arthur Fleck was turned into such a sad sack of shit by the end of this movie that I felt absolutely nothing for him as a character at all.

[@dingledongle455]

Lol brother he was always a sad sack

[@studioseppuku9454]

so you didn't pay attention to the first film then?

[@shadowscribbler6100]

SAME! I didn't even give a shit when he was killed. I was just like "cool, good riddance"

[@yenthee-god-vtuber9240]

And that’s the point. Nobody did. You’re awful.

[@SpammytheHedgehog]

Not only this movie was terrible, but it was also a "bad romance." 😂

[@m.hreels9822]

Nice 😂👍🏻

[@movieoverload]

Ok you win

[@rafaelvilas4230]

hahahaaahah!!

[@Sanj1n]

No pun intended 😆

[@narutofan4545]

Shh

[@President_Mario]

I'm so glad I let you spoil it for me because now I'm saving my money.

[@SerpentHashiraObanaiIguro]

I'm so glad I set out to find spoilers myself so I don't have to see it.

[@je5406]

I've been very entertained. I've watched at least 3 spoiler videos.

[@archythewienerdog2161]

This is definitely one of those "We don't talk about the joker sequel".

[@KRobinson-ko1ne]

Just like we don’t talk about the Disney Trilogy

[@kenthehobo]

I don't get why make it a musical. It felt like the producers were daring people like me not to watch it. Ok producers, you win, I won't watch it 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@nokkamies4988]

Good choice

[@alejandrasanchez3022]

I like musicals but this... wtf was that

[@RichardGutierrezRG]

It was actually Phoenix that wanted a musical. He thought he had more to offer as the character and this was almost a Broadway production up until C0v1d took everything out. Philips and his writing partner started the script. Todd actually caved to Phoenix.

[@Jaco059]

@@RichardGutierrezRGinsanely stupid

[@CRAIGTEMPLATEXCHRIST]

I enjoyed it and found it multi layered…

[@StefunnyStrange]

I just got back from watching this & didn’t want to believe the poor reviews but I now agree that this movie was made for everyone who hated Joker 1. All the critics & people saying Joker 1 was praising incels (which isn’t true & wasn’t the point of the film)… Joker 2 was made for those people. You guys will be very happy with the way the film ends. The other 90% of the audience, however, will be pretty damn upset & frustrated. Because it’s not just a bad movie that ruins Joker 1 but it also does damage to Heath Ledger’s Joker canon as well which I didn’t think was even possible before watching the film. I don’t understand why lately Hollywood seems to write with complete spite & hate for their fans!

[@MarvinPowell1]

To be fair, that wasn't Health Ledger Joker, as he would be like, four years old in 1981.

[@Analoghorror9099]

yeah not a good idea to insult the people who pay their bills

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@Analoghorror9099but it was only insulting incels, no?

[@Analoghorror9099]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 no it was insulting to everybody who watched the first movie,we know Arthur is not a good guy ,we know that for a fact but the first one we understand why he is the way he is. there's a backstory to it and it makes you think,but the second movie is just shit.

[@Analoghorror9099]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 they had a good thing going for them but instead of making it even better they just gave up mid swing and started doing the most random stuff ever to try and make up the 200 million dollars they spent on this movie

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

The fact that Arthur isn’t even the real Joker means that the entire first movie was a complete waste of our investment and our time.

[@mightguy3118]

Literally false advertising. It's like naming a movie about football spiderman and pretending the main character is Peter Parker

[@studioseppuku9454]

he is the real Joker, he is the seed, inspiration and symbol of the whole Joker movement. The first film is vital, his speech on Murray's show is EXACTLY what comes true in the 2nd film. Society breaking down and creating a symbol of Chaos in the Joker only for it to grow and break the man and spread to destroy Gotham is peak Joker ethos.

[@mightguy3118]

@@studioseppuku9454 No he is not lmao stop using cope. Todd literally admitted Arthur isn't the joker and so does Arthur

[@sumsumplays]

Worst part is it could of WORKED. Like could of had the focus on joker breaking away at harleys sanity, abusing her ect then eventually leading them to break out ect ect. We haven’t really seen a psychological type of thing on how Harley and joker happened and that focus could of been fantastic and bare in mind harley is a psychologist so I genuinely wanna know wtf did he do to manage to break her.

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

true. but they completly switched the dynamics of the two characters in this movie. Here it was Harley who was emotionally manipulating Arthur

$20 million... thats what he saw in the contract... for sure he does it 'for the craft'...

[@Michael-lg4wz]

I'm not paying $25 for a director to spit in my face and laugh with dollar signs for eyes. I half expected this but still, very saddening

[@socal310-b2v]

Also. You can stay home and watch the Penguin which is awesome. also, Tulsa kings. Movies are dead in theaters.

[@slimdude2011]

​@Lambert58-v9i Theaters across the country have been struggling financially to survive since COVID, and the movie industry is not making it any better, by continuing to make these terrible movies. At $25.00, you can buy the movie. I don't think anybody is going to buy Joker 2, that's for sure! The movie shouldn't have been made in the first place, and it was doomed from the beginning.

[@LiteraryPicks]

You know how much the director was paid for this film? 20 million

[@MarvinPowell1]

The guy at the end is supposed to be the "real" Joker, who Arthur inspired and will go on to face Batman countless times. But I do suspect like with the Matrix reboot, this movie was intentionally sabotaged to screw over the studio and the director just took the paycheck and trolled everyone.

[@heathmcrigsby]

Wishful thinking. No way he would let downtrodden white men identify with Joker. It was a total deconstruction of the character. White men will suffer and pay their taxes and there is nothing they can do about it (until they do).

[@Cousinbiddy1]

Arthur is the real joker and the 2nd film isn’t canon

[@KaoticReach1999]

He's too old to be the "real joker" and Bruce is too young at this point for that to make sense

[@Cousinbiddy1]

@@KaoticReach1999 bullshit , joker was always a decade older than Batman !!!!

[@KaoticReach1999]

@@Cousinbiddy1 Yes...but Bruce would be like 9 rn so by the time he gets all his training and everything happen, by the time he's 30 Joker would be in his late 60's if not older

[@crow1994-bl]

If Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix felt so strongly that the original JOKER was a one-off and wasn't meant or needed to have a sequel, they should have refused to participate. They couldn't resist the $$$big bucks$$$ the studio offered them. Both of them have no integrity.

[@ohgin12345]

@@crow1994-bl just curious. Who died because of their actions

[@drippyog3935]

​@@ohgin12345ur dad

[@RichardGutierrezRG]

​@@ohgin12345The Joker franchise did.

[@slumplxrd934]

@@ohgin12345I want the 2 hours of my life back

[@LiteraryPicks]

$20 million each

[@woodrowgodshyne1654]

It broke my heart. We saw the first film 6 times. We would hit the bar and go on for hours about all the symbolism. I just paid 20 bones for a director to give me the middle finger.

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

How did this movie give you the middle finger?

[@woodrowgodshyne1654]

@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 The ending... The waste of potential... There is good here. Sadly, the bad burns the good down, and you have this... Thing you pretend to be art.

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

@@woodrowgodshyne1654 so the film wasn’t insulting you just incels

[@woodrowgodshyne1654]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 No, it was just bad. Any messaging be damned.

[@usapostate23]

@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674Why are you so butt-hurt over an opinion of a movie?

[@HailToTheMeep]

This reminds me of the last installment of the matrix franchise. The creators had moved on and clearly didn’t want to do another sequel so they trolled everyone in the last one.

[@Justin_Holland]

You mean the 3rd one? I think that suffered from being filmed back to back with Reloaded. Seemed like the creators didn't really have time to think it through

[@usapostate23]

@@Justin_HollandNo, I think he means the last film in the franchise, which is Matrix Resurrections. Which is still less of a fuck-you to fans than Joker 2.

[@brockedwardsmusic]

leave the matrix out of this

[@m.hreels9822]

Finally, somebody genuinely agrees with how I feel about that ending being undeserved and not being earned. I actually saw several people walk out of the movie theater too when that happened. Some people were just in complete shock, and other people were completely disgusted. Yeah, I don’t know why they had some random dude who we know nothing about kill him so mercilessly. It didn’t make any sense. It was drawn out, and it was way too gruesome. It was just not a good sendoff for the character.

[@shadowscribbler6100]

The people in my theatre when I saw it tonight were actually laughing. And uh, they definitely weren't laughing *with* the film, but rather laughing *at* it.

[@patrickthurston8811]

I think the Director is just trolling everyone

[@robbiealixsantos]

Yeah I think this might be the point lol this kind of reaction is what the director likely intended

[@nerychristian]

Kind of like Matrix Resurrection. The director was insulting the audience and people who paid him to make the movie

[@rafaelvilas4230]

they dont care. Just go to cinema by curiosity

[@heelmoxley365]

Didn’t an article come out a few months ago about them wanting to do ‘Joker in Space.’ 😂

[@mightisright]

Unless he's retiring that is the stupidest, most suicidal decision I've ever heard of. Did he think the audience would watch it no matter what it was?

[@So_Oneal]

Can't forget the failed smear campaign of the first joker before it came out and people still went to go see it despite all the media attempts. Cancel culture wanted the Joker to fail in the beginning, but in a weird way they got their wish with this second one .

[@LuisSierra42]

Either you make one movie as a hero or you live long enough to become a villain by release a sequel

[@freyamehrab]

wow robert downey jr did both iron man to dro dooom aka iron man in another universe

[@AxionParticle]

Indeed

[@freyamehrab]

@@AxionParticle yep who wants to know the future i can see it

[@tokensoftokens]

When comparing to Madame Web or Morbius you have to realize that the lower ratings aren't because Joker 2 is worse, they're because Joker 2 is far more disappointing. Nobody expected much of anything from Madame Web or Morbius, and it allows you to find the fun in the awfulness.

[@coletussing9534]

Turning the sequel into musical when the original had nothing to do with it, is a crime against humanity

[@Xavier.living.life.]

If you genuinely think that you should rewatch the first film because you're dead wrong.

[@vijaz5559]

@@Xavier.living.life. musicals in a sequel of a serious dramatic film is just bad and dumb business decisions 😂

[@Xavier.living.life.]

@@vijaz5559 the two most iconic scenes in the first film are literally of the main character dancing, first the bathroom scene then him dancing down the stairs, and it ends with him singing, it's obvious to me why they would crank that up in the sequel since Arthur is going more crazy and has someone to share in his madness, that's literally why the title can be translated to "madness of two".

[@Kevin-cl2ez]

​@@Xavier.living.life.yea i dont get why people cry about the songs when theyre one of the few good things in this movie

[@glockmat]

Not necessarily, the madness aspect could really work with the musical part, the "dancing while the world burn" could really work. A diagetical musical but in a totally inappropriate moment sith Mr. Magoo levels of luck to not die could bizarrely form some sort of dark humor comedy where there is all this violence and death happening, yet our characters are singing happily along not dying by the skin of their teeth, but making it look completely effortless

[@Goggles36195]

Honestly it would have made more sense is Harley killed him instead

[@NicholasWolfwood-md7vm]

The lesson is that women kill you by proxy.

[@mightguy3118]

This is what I've been saying bro. It could've also been symbolic for their love if she was so obsessed with the joker that it was no longer love and she flat out wanted to be him. So killed him and tried to become joker

[@melontusk7358]

Thanks to this movie, we can finally appreciate Jared Leto's Joker.

[@mightguy3118]

People can hate his joker all they want but at least bro is actually the joker and didn't get the joker gang graped out of him 💀

[@Sonicthefirst]

That is some accomplishment

[@risingphoenix6802]

This is exactly what happened with The Hangover sequels. Todd Phillips just rehashed the first one.

[@movieoverload]

At least with the hangover sequels you can turn your brain off and enjoy them

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

But Todd Phillips didn’t rehash anything from the first joker movie, in fact with joker 2 he made a completely different character and regressed the character so much that Arthur Fleck isn’t anything like he was in the first, or at least who he became in the end of the first movie.

[@Kevin-cl2ez]

​@@PandaMirror-xd5dbEXACTLY

[@withamberarya]

Hangover sequels are great

[@MasterPeibol]

"who is this movie/series made for?" is, sadly, the most repeated sentence of this era

[@MaxellAdGuy]

The movie is just a vehicle to sell Lady Gaga's album.

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

i dont think she needs the extra cash. It was just Todd Phillips being a coward to the minority who didnt like the first movie, and accused the movie of being right wing etc.

[@juanvalero7653]

@@PandaMirror-xd5db It's not for cash, it's woke propaganda.

[@_postershuhua]

which one? Harlequin, or her album that's seperate from the movie? because Gaga doesn't need the Joker brand to sell albums, or fill out seats for her tour

[@muffinsdawg]

Shrek 2 really is the pinnacle of cinema

[@cannibalvegetableyt]

"Why?" Is exactly what I said out loud in the theater as the credits began to roll. I was not a big fan of the first film and even I found it completely pointless and tedious, especially in regards to the story; after the "event" interrupts the trial, I felt like they had no idea wtf to do with the rest of it. It felt like the movie was a pointless bridge to nowhere. Most of the musical numbers felt like filler and only supports my previous assertion. The acting is excellent, the technical parts of the film are excellent, the script execution is fine, etc. But it absolutely suffers from style over substance where the style is completely unfocused and gratuitous without being engaging. The musical segments were so tedious and generic they were dreaded by everyone, as you mentioned. I think the Puddles scene is so good because it's just two actors acting without a bunch of spectacle; it's just two good actors doing what they do best: *acting* TLDR: I was no fan of the first and even I thought this film was offensively pointless and trying to insult its own fanbase while flexing art nuts.

[@pantera29palms]

The artists (director and actors) successfully destroyed their creation. No doubt driven by their corporate masters. Bravo! Something I’ll never waste my time with. Time to get on with life!

[@graildemitrius6310]

This movie proves that Tarantino is right about us living through "the 80's part two". If you look back at some of the worst movies of the 80's, alot of them were lousy sequels to well received prestige pictures.

[@libanzihlalu2715]

damn Tod Phillips turned joker into season 4 eren yeager from aot 😂

[@noobmaster69426]

I did not bother to watch this. At this point, from what I'm seeing, the movie falls flat by a long shot.

[@iliasmirallas244]

The psychopath that kills arthur is the joker. After he kills arthur he scars his face. The whole point of the joker is that his someone without a name and without a back story so that was arthurs' legacy as it was hinted from the end of the first movie. Pretty good scene but should have been the end of the first movie

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

Or the start of this one, instead you are just wasting 2 hours on this nothing characther that they made arthur into in the second movie

[@annettelouise6781]

If they had done 60s and 70s songs, and only when Joker was being violent, that would've worked, but it was not todds vision apparently. Could have kept the 40s and 50s songs just for the romance bits.

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

True that was what i thought they were going for with the musical bits before watching the movie. But then it would have been clear that Arthur in fact does have a split personality, which the first movie didnt set up at all.

[@gtdc4685]

Jonkler: Failed to doo doo

[@WendyOryen]

Didn’t see this film simply because it was musical

[@iLLuminatedWithDren]

The scene where Harley was talking to the reporters about building a mountain and someone says “WHAT?!” And the. Says “WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!” Was absolutely hilarious and the only good part of the movie

[@ParkerCS2]

Logan didn’t get a sequel (Deadpool & Wolverine doesn’t count), Joker also shouldn’t had gotten a sequel.

[@joshmciver4847]

Bad logic. Logan WAS a sequel... To about 10 movies. Reel your odd comparison back in.

[@Sonicthefirst]

@@joshmciver4847”actually” ahh reply

[@YayaBeanz]

Morbius was so bad it's good. This is just bad.

[@dante6985]

I don't know I find it pretty boring.

[@ogeraldo1388]

Morbius is just bad

[@ParkerCS2]

Good thing Folie a Doo Doo isn’t canon and I’ll never watch it. Joker 2019 will remain untainted.

[@jenisia3600]

Facts

[@ohgin12345]

@@ParkerCS2 joker 2019 wasn't that great to be honest

[@joshmciver4847]

Well by that logic... Joker 2019 isn't canon either, so what does it matter?

[@ParkerCS2]

@@joshmciver4847 dude stop being a jerk

[@ohgin12345]

@@ParkerCS2 actually you should stop being a retard

[@ITSAHARDNUGLIFE]

They could have made this into like a Natural Born Killers type of movie or Bonnie & Clyde. But no...they went with this, well whatever IT is. Update: This movie is not a sequel. It is Joker.5

[@JoeChillton]

So the thing with the "Grape", what is he trying to say about mental health like in the first one, so screw Todd Phillips.

[@nono9543]

I just wish if the movie was about Joker's persona outliving Arthur Fleck than maybe have the guy who shanked him being a center character?

[@Seasonal-Shadow_4674]

But wouldn’t that have made it more predictable?

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

True that could actually have worked very well. But then that last scene should actually have been done within the first 15 minutes of the film.

[@isaacm5927]

so this movie is just the most expensive and longest cover of Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance" ... got it.

[@m.hreels9822]

This is the best video review about this I’ve seen!

[@knoober3756]

I think it spells out the original intention of the 1st film, that Phillips only made it a joker film because he needed funding. Him not being joker spelling it out for the audience. I’m also pretty sure it’s both a middle finger to DC and to those messed up ppl of society that glorify people like Bundy and Dahmer. It targets specifically those marginalized people. It’s also the perfect satire film of the 1st one

[@WhatDoesCoreyThink]

I have mixed feelings about this movie. The ending is what's really creating the anger.

[@IsabelEMC2]

I loved the tap dancing from Arthur!!! At that moment he was free from judgement and expectations. I loved to see him for once totally happy. I loved it!! 😊

[@GothAtheist]

Yeah, no. The problem isn't that there's a sequel, the problem is that guy made shitty sequel cuz he's a drama queen. If Todd Philips didn't wanna make a second Joker movie, he should've just said so and let someone else do it, so it could be actually good and honor the first one. Obviously successful stuff, and especially successful comic book stuff, is getting a sequel, that's not up for debate, nor should it be.

[@dante6985]

Honestly I think "drama queen" is going a little too deep with it. This should be looked at as a $200 million exercise in Phillips playing with paints because WB let him. They opposed the first movie on a relatively low budget, it was a smash hit, so they let Phillips do whatever he wanted thinking he'd deliver ("Lady Gaga? A musical? That's weird but we didn't get the first one either."). It's kind of like an exaggerated Wonder Woman 1984. The wrong lessons were learned and the wrong people rewarded.

[@Analoghorror9099]

@@dante6985 kinda makes you think doesnt it, if directors started getting less bugdets for their movies ,they would start working harder and wouldnt do shit like this .

[@rickyrichreacts9667]

I just recently saw what Tod Phillips said about the new movie. He was never meant to be the actual joker from Batman. He was just a crazy dude who resembled that type of joker but that’s not the actual character.

[@fergusclarken8437]

No disrespect to lady Gaga but Rooney Mara as Harley Quinn missed opportunity

[@dornravlin]

I’m in the minority here, but I actually like it. I understand where peoples criticisms are, but the movie I saw was an interesting critique on how we glamorize crazy people I found it as provoking as the first joker. and I like the fact that a $200 million movie looks like this is refreshing that a big studio movie is about flawed people. I think Joker one and two. Remind studios of the kind of mid budget movies they used to make

[@jinx724]

I'm still going to see the movie but, from watching people break it down it makes me so so sad. It sounds like they missed so many opportunities and story beats that would have been amazing.

[@movieoverload]

There is a good movie in there somewhere

[@joshgamingvlogs5203]

2:16 it’s refreshing to find KZbinrs that are chill in person events

[@OrangeGeemer]

Why does Harley do the gun to the head thing?? she knows Joker from the news, but that thing he did was in a hallway (or his head?), it´s like she saw the movie too.

[@PandaMirror-xd5db]

in the movie she tell arthur that she saw the tv-movie made about him.

[@OrangeGeemer]

@@PandaMirror-xd5db oh I see, that's lame, it reminds me of Matrix 4

[@battletweety8819]

Isnt it basically the same as in the first that we are in arthurs head and the music which seems unfitting is what arthur is experiencing every day? So I think the music is supposed to annoy you to let you experience his creasyness and how he suffers from it

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Exactly. He even asks Lee to stop singing at some point. Music here serves a purpose. He wants to be free, even knowing it is not an option after all the chaos he has caused.

[@Devil-Made]

Unlike a lot of people I’ve met, I can really enjoy a movie with a poor story if the cinematography is great. In a weird way I think I’m able to substitute the cinematography for the story in these situations. And the inverse is true as well: I can look past poor cinematography if the story is REALLY engaging and interesting. So from what I’ve heard, I’ll probably really like this film. It’s not that I don’t care about the pitfalls in the story - I do - but I’m a lot more forgiving when the film looks well made and is visually appealing. In my experience I’ve not met many other people who approach movies like I do, and the hate I see for this film only solidifies that notion to me.

[@daisydaisy...4562]

Too much money.... Too much greed....

[@wedgewizard5429]

It did need a sequel. It didn't need _that_ sequel.

[@mungojerry]

Joker 2 did exactly what Last Jedi did to Star Wars. This new “subversive” directors sh***s on fans and the audience

[@velho6298]

So a film made for the critics, failed by the critics. I don't really get what they wanted to achieve here

[@wet-read]

It wasn't "made for the critics". It might have been made to intentionally alienate fans of the first Joker, or maybe because some fool thought this material being funneled into a musical was a good idea. Critics are not filmgoers' mortal enemies or something. They would indeed be useless if all they ever did was echo what the majority of audiences think.

[@Strawhat_2006]

If the joker 2 movie was all about Arthur trying to fight his Joker side and finally accepting that he is in the wrong would’ve probably been good.(Spoiler alert)That happens and they made it mean absolutely nothing.Remember when Gary said Arthur this isnt you?In the ending of the movie Arthur gets a visitor before his execution.We dont get to see who it is,but if you saw the movie your best guess would be Gary.Guess what?Arthur wasn’t able to atleast have some character development and instead gets stabbed by the supposedly new joker and dies.Do you see what I mean?We have all seen the first movie and to me Arthur doesn’t seem like the real joker.We saw him interact with a kid bruce wayne.That is not how the Joker works.Arthur was just an inspiration for the new joker this whole time and it also makes me dislike the first movie a bit

[@acidbath3226]

I think devil's advocate is probably my favorite courtroom drama

[@markstanton63]

People with fixed expectations often feel cheated when things don't play out as anticipated ..... Some people get what they deserve .... Others just don't get it at all.

[@daniel-vn4ql]

I have not seen the film. But i am convinced that the film was made bad intentionally. I believe he watched Split 2 (2019). and used it as a guide how to make his film bad. The 2 films seem to have many of the same issues. But Todd Phillips made it a musical. as an extra measure. I also wonder did a bait and switch occur. i suspect that the film Joaquin Phoenix signed up for. was not any thing like the film we got.

[@monicaaboites5053]

Todd Philips have no idea what he wanted to do with Arthur.

[@maxthegr8legend319]

Maybe Mr. Phoenix took this role to prove a point since the only good parts of this movie are the visuals and acting. It's probably a wake up call for everyone that the art of movie-making is on life-support.

[@hxnrytaylor]

At least we have The Penguin 🙏

[@scizopenguin]

season 2 is gonna be bad

[@GothAtheist]

Not really? Other than Joker, DC is trash. At least we have Agatha All Along though

[@ThomasThomas2x3989]

​@@GothAtheist the penguin is better than Agatha all along

[@hxnrytaylor]

@@GothAtheist nobodys watching that shit 😭

[@drippyog3935]

​@@GothAtheistthat shit gae woke ahh trash

[@kyledmorgan]

They purposefully made it to piss you off.

[@singstreetcar5881]

So many clips from the trailer aren't in the film.

[@Teacher-Thayse]

Yes! I first thought I was missing something, but realized it actually they were not actually there!

[@GourSmith]

Name 7

[@mightguy3118]

So many filming leaked scenes aren't even in the movie.

[@Sonicthefirst]

ITS FALSE ADVERTISING

[@RochellB46]

Gaga Ruined it , the Music ruined it , the storyline ruined it and I’m obsessed with the first one

[@LeechWife]

The level of my commitment to watch people destroy Joker Folage dududuu is way higher than me performing well at work. I need help.

[@narbo35]

Does anyone remember Prince Batman (Vicky Vale) music video? I feel like that was the inspiration for this movie. 🤣

[@DianaT-ph6iz]

It is NOT a musical. Those who know something about a musical can immediately see the HUGE difference between a musical and just a film with random songs that forcefully interrupt the narrative. This film is the latter, obviously.

[@brandenmanuel2037]

This wasn’t Joker It was a Joke! 🤡

[@tommyflynnmusic]

This movie seemed like a threat to TP. “Destroy why the first one is considered interesting or else”

[@deerheart87]

Gaga i just cant

[@omarykasomo7388]

Thank you for reference shrek 2 man That o jay reference was spot on

[@MalkavX]

I appreciate your take, and you have valid points. It is interesting how we codify certain things, for example the court. I have friends who are in the same position as you, but my experience in the theater never made me feel like this was a courtroom drama at all. In fact, I would argue that the courtroom just servers as a background for Arthur's mental trip. I just think it is quite fascinating that we both saw the same movie and codify its elements differently. I enjoyed the movie. It is not perfect by any means, but it didn't truly let me down. But, while I like the first one, I also didn't think it was a perfect movie, so I really didn't have any expectations for this one.

[@orinorio1]

The first Joker movie was based from 2 Martin Scorsese movies, Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy .Todd P co wrote it with Scott Silver, Martin Scorsese was offered the movie but he passed on it. So Todd was used instead. This movie both Scott and Todd had to come up with something different. They couldn't use another movies. This is the result.

[@malikpierre-louis3343]

"It Would funny if it weren't so pathetic" Joker batman beyond return of the joker.

[@Cowboybrian01]

The thing is, I don’t know if we’ll ever really know what Tod Phillips was trying to do. I think at best he was flipping off the studio, at worst he just created a movie to spit in the audience’s face while collecting a big paycheck. And I think I speak for most fans when I say we don’t support Arthur or endorse his actions but we are fascinated by the character and what drives him. The first Joker movie was so well-done and I think they did Joker right because we actually got to explore his background. Instead of the simple ‘Batman good, Joker bad’ it flipped the script and we got to see Joker’s point of view. I was really hoping to explore more of that in the second movie and instead I wasted $25 and two hours of my life to basically re-hash the last movie except constantly being told that I was wrong if I felt even remotely sympathetic for Arthur. Oh, and I had to watch a gang rape and watch him get shanked by who I guess is the real Joker… Like the Star Wars Disney trilogy I’ll just pretend the second movie doesn’t exist.

[@ThereIsAlwaysaWay2]

100% in agreement. This was surely made of spite. Spending hundreds of millions in the garbage's just for and EGO saying F YOU.

[@salski81]

Its a recap of part 1 with a stalker lady who likes to sing and dance so joker starts singing and dancing 😢😢

[@maddiemcdaj4911]

The singing and dancing was mostly in his head ?.

[@captain_unhinged4372]

Movie was 10/10. The Joker folie à deux just did what the Joker did best. It took your little character and “Turned it on Itself”. Look what it did with just a bigger budget and Lady Gaga casting. You know what i noticed? Nobody panics when a Joker movie goes “According to Character”. Even if the character is horrifying. If Todd Phillips said that Joker folie à deux was going to be exactly like it’s predecessor but with more “singing and dancing”, or that the Joker will blow up Gotham City. Nobody panics, because it’s “All apart of the Character”, but if he says that one little Joker isn’t really “HIM” well, then everyone loses their minds! Introduce a little nuance. Upset an established Media, and everything becomes Chaos. Joker folie à deux is an agent of Chaos. Oh, and you know the thing about Chaos? It’s Fair.

[@SuperEnforcer88]

The first one could had a sequel, but just not this one. One that would be more close to the comics .

[@Kryssthealien]

"It make the first movie worst" You're right on this. I love the 1st movie but now I feel Heath Ledger's Joker was better because I didn't see his character get ruined.

[@KirkWilliamsIsBroken]

Wow...reminds me of the audience reactions to Alien3 when it was released. Let's take all your investment in the character/s you like and flush them down the toilet. Although to be fair I actually do like Alien3...I even did when it was released.

[@bartugonulalan]

This kind of moments proves many professionals dont have any idea what they did right to win awards. Cause of that they cant carry their success to second movies.

[@heelmoxley365]

I was supposed to see it on Friday but came down with the flu. Sitting in my bed feeling god awful, I dived into spoilers.

[@marcusharris188]

I first heard of this sequel like three days ago and had no idea it was coming out so soon.. Had to google it to realize it just released lol wow

[@MaskedNinja600]

You should do a video essay on John Wick! I’d love to see your thoughts on the franchise

[@besupaaa]

And in this movie keeps mentioning "that movie they made about you", or some sort of in universe joker movie. So I didnt understand if I was supposed to interpret that as they watched the first Joker movie?

[@viperkiara3619]

“Who is it made for?” Me. It’s made for me, I wanted a silly rom-com musical where gaga goes crazy

[@reelfishstories]

From the guy who brought us old school and the hangover, Joker 2 is exactly what I expected. Walking Phoenix elevated the first joker in an otherwise mid level film.

[@floraposteschild4184]

I wouldn't call the first one a great movie, but if there was a film that did not need a sequel, it's Joker. Its message was crystal clear. There was nothing more to say. What happened afterwards was best left to the audience's imagination. Was Arthur THE Joker? It's for you to you.

[@CRAIGTEMPLATEXCHRIST]

I don’t understand why people say the fans of the first have been insulted? Can someone tell me how?

[@themba_shawn]

I'm also curious