Marketing For Indie Games | Land a Hit Game!

[@JonasTyroller]

What we're doing here is "theory crafting". As always there are different ways to look at it and different things work for different developers. I hope you got something out of our perspective on this topic, though. Huge thank you to Chris for sharing his knowlege. Go check out his blog!

[@i-am-the-slime]

Rolf Zuckowski?

[@MAGNETO-i1i]

@@JonasTyroller What is his opinion on mobile games market?

[@EscapeCondition]

My favorite part of this is how specific he is with some numbers etc. to jot down as targets

[@Baekstrom]

That guy seems really easy to interview. You just ask a single question, and then he goes off providing a wealth of information.

[@JonasTyroller]

Oh yes, he is. Always fun to chat for that reason.

[@Martinit0]

It's almost like he's the best type of guest for KZbinrs to create interesting content.

[@JDogB-tc3lx]

lmao 🤣

[@OmegaFalcon]

After watching this, I've decided. I'M MAKING A 2D PLATFORMER!

[@MAGNETO-i1i]

Add puzzles to it, and tweet as much as possible

[@DoodleWorks22]

You FOOL don't thou knowest the trails and tribulations that come from a 2d platformer

[@Lucas-gt8en]

Maybe consider using cute pixel art for a unique twist!

[@RickyWiild]

This is me in EA, right now lool

[@zionen01]

As long as you have other means to pay the bills it's fine..

[@DewiDeci]

That 20-40 hour point for indie scale could also be a factor for why rouge-likes do so well. Adding some item/powerup with a layer of RNG and synergies can greatly expand play time without too much work involved.

[@JonasTyroller]

Yeah, very replayable, often has emergent gameplay properties, exciting to watch for viewers (because perma-death makes it high stakes), often a bit sandboxy and toylike by allowing for lots of different strategies and builds to mess around with. It makes sense.

[@Ilcorvo.games1]

Do you think an endless mode for a side scrolling 2d space bullet hell would greatly improve replayability? Bonus points for guessing what kinda game I'm making. 🤣

[@Kassityyp]

Noita!!!

[@SenorZorros]

@@Ilcorvo.games1 I'm just a random guy without any credentials so feel free to ignore. In my experience "Just an endless mode" adds little value. It''s the game I already played, just endless. I'd say adding modifiers, handicaps, challenge modes, minigames or any "spin on the default formula" works better for me while allowing reuse of assets. Endless modes really only work for me if it is a game about getting a highscore and the endless continuation is part of the design. Else it's just slop. Then again, It is almost always not my genre and players don't know what they are talking about so feel free to ignore.

[@brandongregori995]

Just my opinion, but I dislike endless modes. They always have the same issue, which is they start slow and build up momentum. So you waste a lot of time getting to the challenging part every time you come back to it

[@dapperdave42]

First, thank you so much for posting this. It's been so valuable already. Secondly, I think Chris's point still fits your original statement of "Just. Make. Great. Games." - the difference is how we determine what "great" means. My take away from Chris's point about successful genres is that a "great" game is one that meets its audience where they are while still being inspired by innovation.

[@JonasTyroller]

Your take is now Jonas approved.

[@dapperdave42]

@@JonasTyroller 🙏

[@lisathewhitewolf]

I get inspired by a great story more than I do innovation. But maybe I'm weird.

[@QuietPenguinGaming]

I wish every interviewer was as skilled as you are! "Is it one of those cases where if everybody followed your advice it would stop working?" That's a question I've wanted Chris to answer forever! I find your take on indie game development to be spot-on. You absolutely nailed this interview. Fantastic video.

[@WizardofWestmarch]

The funny thing is his advice about genre still has enough variety it would be pretty hard to fully saturate it. Doubly so if you throw roguelites in as well since they aren't necessarily craft-y but they do have a build meta to explore and allow player creativity in searching for broken builds.

[@QuietPenguinGaming]

@@WizardofWestmarch I agree. These games are also much harder to design & balance that many indies think. Creating a system with enough variety without a bunch of broken (ie overpowered) items (or even just 'strictly-better's) is a real challenge. I liked the question in part because it helps you try and get in the mind of indies who aren't following the trends. I grew up when Mario was a thing, but got pulled into the pokemon & trading card worlds instead so I have no affinity for platformers. I'm lucky in that I happen to really enjoy roguelike/roguelite games, and I guess if they were the 'unpopular' genres I would still want to make them.

[@WizardofWestmarch]

@QuietPenguinGaming I agree with everything, but one interesting point, a lot of people like a little overpowered spice in their rng build games. Personally I'm mixed opinion on them but I've seen people complain when they can't break the game in half ever

[@QuietPenguinGaming]

@@WizardofWestmarch Totally :) You want to feel powerful, especially when your build comes together. Imo, a game designer needs to make sure builds feel powerful yet distinct from others. If one build is significantly more powerful (or much easier to acquire) then there's little point in exploring or trying different things. Players will take the path of least resistance. It's a really tough balancing act. A truly 'balanced' game isn't as much fun. You want to feel powerful as player. When I start designing a new game system, I don't focus on balance yet. I try to find the fun, powerful mechanics within the system (to make sure the game is enjoyable to play), and then go from there. It's okay if one build/strategy is say 10-20% better, but if it's miles ahead of everything else it's an issue.

[@BjörnTerlegård-h5d]

I love the combined super power of Chris's data and Jonas's analytical skills! Thank you!

[@Tudvari]

So if I got it right: (correct me please) - Demo should be released after tons of playtesting, and i.e. as a soft-launch of limited conted. - Should be released i.e. 1 month before the pre-release Next Fest - As soon as it's public, you contact all the influencers you know, so they have time to play it before the Next Fest. - They drive up your wishlists just before the Next Fest, causing Steam Algorithm to show your game a lot during the Fest. - Thus the Next Fest gets you ton of wishlists. (- Hopefully no major issue arises during the Festival and you can release soon after.) - You launch soon after and it gets promoted by Steam a lot due to the recent wishlist jump during the Next Fest.

[@MondSemmel]

Re: demos, one very basic benefit worth noting is that if you as a player wishlist a Steam game, then Steam will send you an email when the game releases a demo.

[@KummoDeveloper]

"They drive up your wishlists just before the Next Fest, causing Steam Algorithm to show your game a lot during the Fest" - didn't steam try to make new algorithm which disregarded how many wishlists you had before and gave equal chance for every game (probably within their own genre as i believe steam shows games/demos to players based on which games they have played in past so not every genre has equal share). And based on how many times trailer/capsule made people open steam page, how many new wishlists, how many installs, how many times players opened demo and especially: how long they played that demo - and then based on these new numbers they pump up visibility for games that got people clicking /playing or down if people skipped ? I believe they already tried this in october. I haven't watched any analysis if the thing worked like steam explained on their news/blogs/announcements and how it changed visibility (if it did at all) - am not sure if anyone has done such analysis yet - but am curious to see the impact of this. Ofc more wishlist before next fest can potentially help as it might mean you have player base to push notifications for. It might make people play your demo during next fest which might push your game on algorhihm compared to game from same genre that started with 0 wishlist and has to try and gain them during nextfest - where their playtime/player amounts might be lower on first few days and your game might be pushed to suppress your competition (potentially).

[@Tudvari]

@@KummoDeveloper If that's the case then I guess the demo should be released just before the Fest starts. And maybe give a 2-3 days early access to influencers. It would be good to know for sure because there's a huge difference between releasing the demo 3 weeks and 1 day before the Fest.

[@emeraldskelly]

Putting the demo out earlier, after testing, can be good too. Rather than focusing on Next Fest, you could leverage the demo as a tool to get into other steam festivals (some of which might require a demo). Launching the demo does send an email to wishlisters so you might think to delay that email as long as possible, but having the demo up for longer gives content creators more opportunities to play and stream the game. Additionally, followers of your publisher get demo emails, so it can be really important to not launch the demo before contacting publishers, if you are interested in signing with one. Also consider that a demo is a very good way of receiving feedback so you can make changes early and often to improve the game

[@Tudvari]

​@@emeraldskelly Ahh, yeah, I totally forgot about that factor. So maybe the best solution is to: - Have the demo up as soon as it's in a solid state. - So you get more wishlists passively because you will be also featured in the demo section... and also there's a chance streamers will find your game. - Contact influencers a few days before the Next Fest so during the first day you'll have bunch of demo downloads, boosting the algorithm. This way you can have 2 PR events too: once when the demo is public, and once when the fest goes live. So you can post twice i.e. in restrictive, giga subreddits due to having two milestones reached. Am I correct? I'm so confused whether I'm choosing the right decisions or not ^^

[@LeftoversWithAddy]

I'm glad I'm actually getting this advice now. If I had already sunk a couple years of my life into a project only to suddenly realize I was making it for an imaginary market my spirit would be completely destroyed.

[@cloogshicer]

Really love that you're still posting videos after all your well-deserved Thronefall success! Really enjoyed this one!

[@snugpig]

Love how humble you are to not just be satisfied with your 'make great games' video but to go and interview someone who knows more about the subject to get more info!

[@stephan553]

Kudos for the in-depth update. Few folks are willing to revisit anything they said in the past, let alone in any kind of self-critical manner. Hut ab!

[@vycdev]

There are a lot of amazing points in this video. I saw a lot of people talk about how the genre of the game is really important, but not the way that Chris said it, and if you think about it, steam players really love games where you have a lot of freedom to build and construct your own things, toys as he said.

[@Rhomita]

This video is GOLD! If you plan or you are making a game, you should watch the whole video! Thx Jonas for sharing! 😁

[@WorstDeveloper]

Differentiating between marketing and promotion is pretty clever. It allows you to look at marketing in a different way.

[@HopperGameDevelopment]

I wonder how many games at this point owe their success to Chris, the marketing guru, the legend.

[@IronFire116]

Probably none. He's an internet guru. If you keep following his stuff, you realize the actual important details are missing...but you will learn them in his $500 course!!! The people doing research on how to be successful will probably be successful, guru or no.

[@N9TN9]

An 1 hour Jonas video? What a good way to start into the day!

[@DanDoesDev]

17:36 and 20:35 - Jonas smacking the nail right on the head. Indie devs don't want to be told what to make - but if you want to succeed, sometimes you have to compromise.

[@Skeffles]

Fantastic chat chaps! I'll definitely be returning to this video when I get to a marketing push. I definitely feel a lot better about making a buildy simulation manager now.

[@code-garden-games]

This has really encouraged me to get back to work on a crafty buildy game I started making.

[@64-Bit_Dragon]

Just a couple of minutes in and I already hear RTS is hard lol. Hearing it's one of the hardest is actually really comforting seeing how well Zero-K (not my game, just somewhat affiliated) has been doing all these years. Being free and open-source is probably to thank for a lot of it!

[@Lexie_T]

Ursula Le Guin had a great quote for this. "There is a difference between the production of a commodity and the practice of an art." What we're talking about here is whether you are following the profit motive under capitalism to produce a consumable product, or you are making an artistic venture, and very often those ideals are in conflict. That's not to say that there can't be artful elements to a commodity game, but you have to as the developer understand that these are two separate concerns. Another aspect I'm a bit skeptical of here are the concurrent users metrics. An idler, or a game that just burns through your time isn't a better game, it's just a game that takes more time. Is Only Up a better game than Undertale because it has a longer average player time? All that said though, this was a really valuable video for indies to understand better the decisions they need to make and what goes along with choosing a path. I'm struggling to make a short narrative driven game at the moment and these videos help a lot to contextualise what the end result of the game will be. I know it won't perform well in a market, but the lessons I'll learn from it will help in future projects!

[@MondSemmel]

I get the point about artistic ventures, and it certainly applies to very experimental games with no expectation of making a profit. However, most indie devs who make platformers or puzzle games (two genres I love) aren't necessarily making something that's intrinsically more artistic than the survival crafty games, they're mostly making a commodity with less broad appeal.

[@tuna5305]

Creating a good game and making art are inherently in conflict so there's really no need to be too much more concerned. A "good game" has pretty strict boundaries and rules for what you can do while giving the player a fun and rewarding experience. You will also probably have to change your vision according to play-testers and the will of other people involved in the project since games are such a massive undertaking. This isn't even mentioning the fact that many games these days try to be realistic or outright replicate reality (the simulator genre), setting even more limitations. All of these things already conflict with the artistic process. I think the the creative process for most games excluding a few genres like walking simulators and visual novels are fundamentally closer to craftsmanship than art.

[@peacemaster8117]

@@tuna5305 Absolutely true. The closer something skews to art, the further it is from being a game. Something like "That Dragon Cancer" can't really be called a game at all, it's just interactive art. To me a game is a work of craft, like a chair. You can make a chair that's beautifully designed, or which expresses a feeling or embodies a memory, but ultimately it has to conform to the function of keeping a person's ass off the ground. If it fails to do that then it's a bad chair. Same's true for games.

[@kkrup5395]

Is this a comment to the video or is this just mental mast*rbation? Your takes aren't even that profound, many thinks this way already, and contextually they make no sense there. Chris explains how to sell a game. To get money. Everybody knows that. There were never even a hint this video is about art or expression or making "good" by your subjective criteria games

[@TWlaz]

@@peacemaster8117 How, for the purposes of this discussion, do we define a "game?" what's more, how do you define "art?" Because under the typical and intuitive definitions of those terms, your comment doesn't really pan out. How does something become "more or less" of either art or a game? Most significantly, I believe, is the fact that you haven't actually defined the functional aim of a game and how that precludes them from being art (in the same way a chair's function... somehow... precludes chairs from being "pure" art)

[@BronsonBragg]

I love that I watch interviews more than movies or tv shows... and that these interviews/podcasts are about the same length as a movie.

[@AliMurtazaGameDev]

Really great video! Technically we all are competitors. But despite that, there is this culture of successful game developers sharing their knowledge and methods with everyone else. I hope one day I can bring value to others the way you do.

[@ZeffDev]

This really helped a LOT! I learned so much as an indie dev. I didn't know that genre was so important. And as for promotion, I should give it a try like this. Thank you for this kind of content!

[@calamitycal1]

In the What Actually Sells on Steam section, he's basically talking about sandbox games. And I agree with him. The benefit to these is you don't have to hand build hours of content. They're a force multiplier that allow a small team, or one person, to make a game that has 40+ hours of content without building 40 hours of content. Like if you want to make a big scale RPG, you have to not only build all of the systems, you also have to build all of the hours upon hours of content that players want. But, in a sandbox, you mostly just build the systems and allow those systems to interact in interesting ways. Way easier said than done, but that's basically what he's talking about imo. The biggest mistake I see with indie devs (especially the teams of 20+ people) is they try to build a AAA game (including the content) with a single-A budget and headcount. Not gonna happen.

[@gamesbydesign8037]

Brilliant interview. Full of advice that's easy to understand, but hard enough to follow that it probably works. Thanks for digging so hard for this knowledge, and sharing it with us.

[@jimkurth]

Thanks for the video and asking some very great questions for indie game developers. I think when it comes to devlogs, I have an opinion that it hurts your sales when you launch. The reason is because so many people have seen the inner workings of it and there's less excitement for playing because they know what to expect and what to see. It's like reading spoilers and a critic's review of a movie that just got released. You read what the movie is about and maybe there are some things left out but you get the idea and the story and impressions of the movie before you see it and that experience is now jeopardized becuase you kind of already know what to expect. Whereas, if you release videos promoting the game and highlighting the best parts will make it exciting, teasing the viewer to want to see more by buying the game. And, if you come off as non-entertaining, then it only hurts you more.

[@KummoDeveloper]

21:43 "when they look up steam page they are trying to determinate is this game this genre that i really like". I.... i see myself in that. I might not look games whether games belong in specific genre or genres i like but when im making purchasing decisions i am looking from steam page if the game has the elements i am expecting on my gaming experience. The pegs in holes metaphor really made me nod my head. I think i have to add a new step on my prototype making loop. I guess if i let people (both friends and randoms) playtest my demos/prototypes maybe i should even ask a simple question: "what genre do you think this game is/would be". And i guess i'd be hoping for small variety on the answers with same genres being repeated multiple times.

[@HungryHungryB]

Cool! I actually got back into watching your productivity and theory videos recently (a few days ago) on drives and now you feed us with a new very long one. I'm gonna eat good for the next 2 years off this.

[@Soluna7]

The game I am working on is a sandbox game with a very dynamic and manipulable world, and let me tell you 3:33 had me jumping with joy! I These are the kinds of games I love the most, but I wasn't sure about the wide appeal. But each word he said made my grin grow a little more, and I literally shouted "YES! YES! THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING!" alone in my house to only my cat. I am positively ecstatic right now and I am currently getting a coffee and jumping back into development because I'm more sure than ever I've got a good idea

[@piotryendel5444]

The way you have no symmetrically regulated headphones triggers me lmao. Recently learnt a lot about marketing and what making game that sells really is thanks to you! (thomas brush podcast plus this is a gold mine)

[@archamondearchenwold8084]

This is AMAZING content. Basically journalism.

[@ske2004]

this made me realize that of all algorithmic feeds, Steam is one of the few that cannot be easily manipulated

[@vincentoreilly2704]

Really good interview - I appreciate the level of backed up knowledge and statistics your guest had. It is actually reassuring to understand more about what gamers want as it can afford us developers to make informed decisions and compromise on the types of games we want to make vs what is currently marketable

[@xtexasredx6051]

Excellent stuff you guys; really appreciate it. As someone that has a fulltime job but want to get into it I really liked getting good tips for genre for success.

[@Sisyphus_Developer]

Randy brought me here. I'm super excited to watch this later. Thank you so much for this!

[@ThraxxMediaOfficial]

Thank you. Exactly the sort of advice that I needed to hear, at a turning point on my developing journey.

[@ChroniclesofUnreal]

This was an awesome interview. So much value jam packed in here!

[@oldn00bster]

is Chris Zukowski making a tour of all indie-game youtubers?

[@howtomarketagame]

It kind of worked out that way! It was just a happy accident. At the end of the year everyone is doing interviews and so I always say yes!

[@JonasTyroller]

I reached out to Chris after I got some crap for my "Just Make Great Games" statement to get a second opinion.

[@WaytoOblivion]

Thats called "Promotion". 😂

[@niphil7437]

Right now I'm making a crafty buildy simulation game and until yesterday I was convinced no one will play it, but after watching this I think It has some potential haha

[@LunarBulletDev]

Thanks for this video, game marketing is like a black mysterious box, glad to see more content for such an arcane topic!

[@Tomsudobrej]

I really wish Chris would have said other generes that do well and others that do ok. For example how well do racing games or action-adventures story games. Thanks Jonas and Chris for this long video! :D

[@-N-L-]

So glad you made another video with this guy, the last one was genuinely so insightful and this dude feels like the Sun Tzu of game marketing

[@JDogB-tc3lx]

What I learned, if it don't look good then make sure it goes deep. good advice for many areas in life

[@YaronLavi]

Such an eye opener! Thank you very much! Great video!

[@bastianovitali5248]

that graph hits hard. much love to all the devs and to you Jonas!

[@RocketBootsMania]

Just started a channel about making my video game, thanks so much for sharing this, Jonas!

[@Juniper-z2u]

Great video, everything in it was so helpful. And extra thanks for the amazing summary at the end. Thank you so much.

[@nousername8162]

cant understate how important graphics are, i know many people that wont touch a game with a 10 ft pole if they dont like the graphics. it doesnt necessarily have to be hyperrealistic, but it has to be a appealing artstyle.

[@AideaGames]

3:41 ❌ Sandbox ✅ Crafty Buildy Simulationy Management

[@abidounesaad3780]

I love how I just watched the whole video even thought it's 1 hour long, it didn't feel at all that long

[@WattDesigns]

Lots of useful info, thanks for posting! :)

[@xdevantx5870]

I'm playing a crafty, buildy, simulationay, management game while I'm watching this so this guy is onto something.

[@bobbykanae]

Super helpful and validating! Thank you!

[@okay_cam]

This is such valueable and insightful advice. Thanks for the video

[@cozymonk]

If you have ever seen Mad Men, they depict that often it was the marketing firm that designed or conceptualized the actual product their client was to sell. Apparently people who worked in the industry at the time said the show was an accurate representation.

[@LiquidFlower]

59:36 what does he mean when he says capsule? Like capsule artist as well. 🤔

[@TheMagokaiser]

My two favorite content creators of indie games teamed up to make a video. I'm going to play the lottery, because today is my lucky day.

[@benithemaker]

The best 1 hour I'll invest today!

[@benithemaker]

Wow, I was right... This video is packed with so much value! 💚

[@godottutorials7854]

THANK YOU SO MUCH I NEEDED THIS

[@thomascurtis889]

Speaking of early access, Steam offers a playtest feature that allows you to get feedback on your game without going into early access and killing your momentum!

[@adoek980]

Couple of months ago Valve released some new feature for Steam demo games. Demos can now be released with a standalone store page (so it isn't the same page as your full game). Also these demos can also be reviewed now. Not mentioned in the interview. Any insights already on how this new feature benefits the marketing?

[@KummoDeveloper]

i've seen BiteMe games mention this few times and i believe Chris has said it somewhere as well (might had been on another video where some other dev interviewed him or maybe it was video on his channel he posted just before october next fest... or maybe BiteMe games read his blog and was quoting it? Or maybe it was someone else and not our beloved steam-guru who is spreading this info). The times i have seen/heard it being mention the info so far seems to indicate little to no difference with how steam promotes your product. I think the only good thing it potentially could have is the case where your demo is just bad... lets say it worked on your pc, you didn't have friends to test it for and just published the demo on steam... and it was filled with bugs and people with their pc-gear couldn't get it to work. Your demo is now getting negative reviews. In this case in theory you can just delete that demo, hide the demo page (or delete, am not sure what options there are) and when you release full game you have a fresh start kinda. (But i don't think we have had an actual example of this happening so maybe steam has build some system where it does check the demo-history and doesn't promote the game cuz of those negative reviews? - am not sure if steam believes in fresh starts and gives the game 2nd chance or if they only give one shot). But people who have shared their data about this are indicating no significant growth or difference. Oh and to back this up a bit iirc steam in their blog/news/announcement wrote that at least for october next fest there is going to be no difference if demo is on its own demo-page or if its on your main game page: steam at least planned to give equal visibility in both cases. Even if steam got their algo to work as they intended and marketed i wonder if that is also how they tend to keep it up. At least for now.

[@adoek980]

@ great informative answer, thanks!

[@freakingcoolindies]

Chris is a legend - very excited about this 🎉🎉 (you are pretty cool too Jonas 🤪😋)

[@JonasTyroller]

Chris Level: Legend Jonas Level: Pretty Cool Fair enough. I'll take it. :D

[@freakingcoolindies]

@JonasTyroller for what it's worth, you are like 200 XP away from levelling up 👏🥳

[@freakingcoolindies]

For what it's worth, you are like 200xp away from levelling up to Legend! 🎉🎉

[@ItzTheFury]

This is really awesome Jonas. Thank you very much!

[@blackcitadelstudios]

Hopefully my game will do well on steam. 😅 thanks for this info

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

>The steam audience really likes horror games Kinda. They like to watch streamers playing horror games and then buy them themselves. Horror games are like THE perfect streamer bait titles.No wonder they're doing well.

[@eniolotero8808]

Summarizing, is it a better time-investment to focus on the development of a demo to distribute to streamers rather than trying to create your own audience through devlogs or other content creation?

[@howtomarketagame]

From an outside, non-youtube full time person, no question, a demo is more important. But I hope Jonas answers too.

[@BelugaBuilds]

lol im a roblox dev, and I watch all ur vids, very relevant surprisingly!

[@MrElrood]

Brilliant dump of useful information and theories.

[@wojtsterna]

11:52 So I saw yesterday some stats suggesting that an average player today *watches* video games more than actually plays them. Which makes sense that to be successful you need to make games which streamers want to play.

[@a1a3a5]

Fantastic advice as per usual

[@DOSRetroGamer]

Congrats to the sucess of Thronefall Jonas. These are crazy numbets. Looks like you really made it in the indie space.

[@nubbe8986]

That playtime minimum stuff (20-40 hours) might be actually true! which is why a lot of indie devs makes pixel rougelikes that combines the easier option of both the art and the gameplay aspects

[@howtomarketagame]

YUP! The roguelike meta-structure is a great way to get a long playtime. Great insight.

[@Firestone-Games]

Perfect timing for this video! I just finished the first trailer for my game!

[@leonhardrobin]

Lets go! Now hopefully you didnt make a platformer 😬

[@Firestone-Games]

@@leonhardrobin Well.....

[@Ilcorvo.games1]

It's a good looking platformer though. I believe I've seen it in some other groups if I'm not mistaken. Edit: the one with the cave man?

[@Firestone-Games]

@@Ilcorvo.games1 Yes exactly, thank you!

[@richardbloemenkamp8532]

Just make a small crafty buildy mechanic into the game and focus 90% of your demo on that. You do have a demo I assume? Different way to dress your main characters also falls under craft if it is sufficiently customizable and tweakable.

[@Nevercade]

Loved this video - Chris is the GOAT 🙏

[@socialkidmusic]

After watching this, I feel ready to make my SHMUP and put it on STEAM!

[@ProxyDoug]

So all the genres that sell well are the ones I don't play and the ones I like sell like crap... well, fuck.

[@JonasTyroller]

Not a deal breaker. Just makes it more difficult. There are successful games in almost any genre.

[@cybershellrev7083]

it's not that the games you like are crap but are dying to be innovated, genre-mixed or effectively Simplified. Unbiased Optimism is a skill.

[@amaryllis0]

You can try find cult audiences for the genres you like. Zachtronics games for puzzle games, Hollow Knight or Celeste - likes for platformers, etc.

[@PaulPaulPaulson]

What's the best time to make a demo?

[@gameboardgames]

I'm a simple solo game dev man. When I see a Jonas Tyroller video or a Chris Zukowski video, I hit play. Side note, really happy my RoadHouse Manager game is a crafty-buildy-simulation-management-ish type game.

[@subbu_creates]

oh man Jonas thanks a lot for this!

[@AliMurtazaGameDev]

Another extremely important thing to realize about the crafty, buildy, simulationy, management blob is that it is aimed towards the more casual player. I have worked on mobile hyper casual games in the past. I learned from senior game designers that the whole point of those games is that the target demographic is extremely broad including middle age women and children.

[@howtomarketagame]

I think the crafty-buildy blob hits all interest levels from casual all the way to hard core. Factorio is definitely crafty buildy and it is HARDCORE. Same goes for games like hearts of iron, or rim world. Crafty buildy cuts across all interest levels. Also you must remember that steam is the most hard core audience in gaming. Casual games don't typically do well here. All I study is Steam.

[@AliMurtazaGameDev]

@@howtomarketagame Yeah good point. Thanks for all the knowledge you deliver! So these games also have the advantage that they get interest from all types of players.

[@peacemaster8117]

@@howtomarketagame Rimworld is such a masterpiece of a game. It takes most of the appeal of Dwarf Fortress' insane simulation and combines it with mainstream accessibility that allows new players to dip their toe in... next thing they know, they've clocked 1000 hours and they're doing ice sheet "losing is fun" Randy Random colonies just for the sheer fuck of it.

[@FireF1y644]

Minecraft RLCraft modpack... 20m downloads... very "casual"

[@AliMurtazaGameDev]

@@FireF1y644 lol

[@be2inas]

Jonas talk with Chris was most informative and helpful for me. Interesting, did Chris paid famous gamedev indie youtubers (Thomas Brush, Jonas, Code Monkey....etc.) to promote his course in these chats, or not? Just trying to apply his own theory here. Teaching materials are the same digital products like games, or aren't they?

[@ThrowawayAccountToComment]

Hopefully, if you make an amazing game with an interesting concept, the players will come with you.

[@JonasTyroller]

If I had to summarize it in a sentence, that would roughly be my conclusion as well. "Just make great games." and then there is some additional nuance that can be helpful to look at as well.

[@fkjaha]

Have a question about reaching out to streamers, how to send 1000 emails if your emails land in spam?

[@JonasTyroller]

Not entirely sure but maybe a few thoughts: Don't send them out too fast or all at once. Customize/personalize them. Make it as much of a "normal" email as possible, no fancy formatting. Use your personal email address that you've been using for a while and regularily and is deemed "trustworthy". Reach out through other means (often you can contact people through other social accounts as well). Don't spam (don't send a billion follow-ups).

[@fkjaha]

​@@JonasTyroller hmm, this approach is worth trying I guess, hopefully my personal email wont be marked as spam because of that Idea of using other sm to contact also sounds legit, didnt think about that for some reason Thank you for the response :)

[@disregarded10]

Are there any festivals you'd recommend?

[@howtomarketagame]

All of them are good. in the video jonas shows a URL to a spreadsheet my community keeps to track them. Apply to everyone that fits your game.

[@disregarded10]

@@howtomarketagame O I missed the url thank you

[@roborogue_]

what an incredible video! i learned so much

[@FloatingOer]

Time for Jonas to reskin "Will you Snail" into a horror "I have no mouth but I must scream" platformer game 🤣

[@zzz12466]

This video is another toolkit for indie developers. (I'm not skilled to make games, but this is helpful If one day I would have the possibility to participatr in a way)

[@renefehr9084]

Hey there. I want to get into gamedev and i was wondering if you went to school or university for it, or if you just started from sqratch one day 😊😊

[@YaenGamedev]

In Jonas' case, the answer is kind of "both". He started it as a hobby as a kid for many years and then went to university studying game design. If you want more details, check out his video called "my gamedev journey" or something like that, it's on his channel

[@BobbeDev]

I wonder how well something like Mario maker would do given it’s a 2D platformer and a creativity thing

[@jonathanwilson8809]

Time to start work on my 4 hour 2D puzzle platformer with penty of dialogue and a great story.

[@thefirstcoatline]

Extremely helpful video! Unfortunately, my game falls into the local multiplayer category...

[@SophiaWoessner]

As someone who likes 'crafty buildy simulationy' games, yeah, I want more of those.

[@uIz_slc]

I dont know how well this video will be doing, but I suggest to change the title to something like "Games are marketing?", "What kind of games are successful on Steam?", "How to make a viral game" or "This Indie games genre is booming!". Maybe I am wrong, but personally I find the current title very generic and many people have made similar videos, but this video speaks about a very interesting way of looking at marketing for games that I dont remember seeing in other videos, and this uniqueness should reflect in the title or thumbnail imo.

[@JonasTyroller]

Yeah, I am experimenting a bit. Will wait for the numbers and make a decision based on that. Maybe "What Actually Works: Indie Game Marketing" could be good as well.

[@uIz_slc]

@@JonasTyroller Some additional examples that came to my mind: "What Everyone Gets Wrong about Indie Game Marketing" or "These Things Makes Your Indie Game Go Viral" or altenatively "These Mistakes Make Your Indie Game Fail" I personally think the title should be more catchy to make people curious and interested, and they are exactly what the video is about, so no misleading.

[@dxmissile]

is it also an algorithm strategy why chris frames his camera so close to his face?

[@howtomarketagame]

Nope I just like being close to you

[@Pedritox0953]

Great video! Peace out

[@EduardMalxa]

thank you!

[@MaximumAxiom]

I wish you made a video on breaking down "appeal", I think that's always the murkiest part for me

[@nobodyinparticular80]

One issue with this is that I don’t personally like “toy”, craft-y, simulation-y games. Nothing against them, I just don’t really get it or see the appeal, so that makes it hard to relate to those players. But I’ll try.