Jordan Perry - Post-doom ACTIONS, with Michael Dowd

[@Mikell-h2c]

RIP Michael ❤

[@marymichell2329]

Damn, I believe that you have changed my life Michael Dowd. So much appreciation and gratitude for the work you are doing. Thank you

[@EmmaSolomano]

An incredible talk. Thank you for sharing it.

[@AmosOfSynhome]

You know that incredible means unbelievable right? You are saying that his talk has no credibility, that no reasonable person would believe what he is saying. I agree but from your tone I think you meant to say the opposite. LOL

[@rutherikwright1433]

I’ve watched most conversations and plan to watch them all. This is the best so far for me. Also starting overshoot for the second time. The fourteen points were so good. I will be watching this one again. Thank you Michael

[@thegreatstory]

Thanks, Ruth and Erik. Delighted you found it valuable...I sure did!

[@peggygates6565]

Following, leading, falling - reimagining.... Thanks for all that you and Karen do. I grew up aware of the imbalance, now 75 years ago, we are a part of something that defies imagination. Still, it is who we are. Live each moment in awareness and gratitude.

[@ariggle77]

Wow, as someone who closely aligns with anarcho-primitivism, I so resonate with this conversation!

[@mickgrahamedillane5459]

A very interesting video! I'm planning to join your post doom discussions via zoom very soon Michael. I'm from Australia and abrupt climate change is already obvious and painful.

[@thegreatstory]

Wonderful!

[@oliviachipperfield6029]

I just watched Karen speaking with Sandy on Environmental Coffee House. What an amazing conversation. Then I came straight here to hear Jordan speak. What an amazing couple. Thank you!

[@quraibawentzel4143]

A great conversation.I can't help saying it,it gave me hope,but not "that"kind of hope.Peace greetings to you all.

[@thegreatstory]

Yea, I get it. Me too!

[@oneirishpoet]

Good conversation, I only recently discovered your KZbin videos thru Beryl Sirmacek, and I found her thru an interview with Guy McPherson who I have followed for 10 years. I also met John Doyle thru Beryl's videos and have come to the realization that we don't have much time left. I actually read Guy's article "We're Done" on my birthday 6/20/2012 and had to read it several times before I fully understood what he was saying. I got married to my beautiful wife 10 days later on 6/20/2012 and had been looking forward to a beautiful life together. But after reading more of Guy McPherson's articles and watching his videos I lost any hope for a beautiful future life, and sadly it has negatively affected my relationship with my wife. She's also a life long environmentalist and did not believe that our world was going to end catastrophically in a few short years. I'm a nurse at a large urban hospital in the US midwest and do NOT want to be here when the collapse happens. We are in the middle of a red tRump state and these MAGAts have lots of guns, and I know they are going to lose their tiny little minds when they realize they've been lied to for so many years! We are both in our 60s and fortunately neither of us has any children to worry about but I really REALLY want to get out of here. We just came back from Costa Rica and bought a small, lovely, little house in the mountains but my wife is not ready to move everything and leave the US right now. Anyway I know I'm rambling here but I am still concerned and somewhat afraid of how soon the collapse is going to happen. I was friends with Guy McPherson for several years on Facebook but then he got mad at me because I asked him what other scientists agreed with his prediction of total collapse in just a couple years. Honestly it would make a big difference on how we will live and what decisions will make in the next couple years. So I will stop my rant here and just say thanks for sharing these videos! guymcpherson.com/were-done/

[@brianbennett3904]

Michael and Jordan, thanks so much for this wonderful and deep conversation, not being afraid to go where many are willing to go🙏

[@williamdillon7708]

Thanks Michael for introducing us to Jordan ! I'm really enjoying this episode,: ) Cheers Bill Ps. I'm looking forward to go back and watching your episode with Karen.

[@thegreatstory]

You're most welcome, William!

[@marktaylor3489]

In Buddhist psychology there is an essential tool for the future called Radical Acceptance. The acceptance is not, "Gee, things are really bad and there is nothing I can do; it's hopeless." Rather it is the acceptance that things really are as bad as they are and putting down the hopium pipe and saying, "Okay, what do I need to do now." That is my guiding principle.

[@jitendradasloves-life5738]

Wow Michael. That was frighteningly honest. Such incredible willingness. I’m so grateful 🙏🏼💕💗

[@thegreatstory]

Thanks!

[@anned6913]

I am so with you. Thank you. ❤

[@southpole1708]

Got a good wave of realization wear we are headed...still hits once and awhile as it must for others...iv been following climate change since late 80s last 10 years that feeling of doom as each report and studies come out...now is the time to enjoy everything we are as we witness it.....

[@treefrog3349]

Living in contemporary society IS difficult. The combined innocence, willful ignorance, denial and magical thinking of so many people is aggravating and exasperating to me. Not so much as a reaction to them personally but with the culture that so easily cultivated them. The Earth is a magical thing. I wish we could say the same about ourselves.

[@thegreatstory]

To me, and speaking mythically, the Earth is more than just "a magical thing"... It/He/She is G🌎D. Our human-centered "idolatry" (self-centeredness, rather than Life-centeredness") condemn us to hell on earth.

[@chickenfootranch]

Our species is just as magical and wonderful as any other - and survived side by side all the rest for millions of years. It's the story our species is enacting (civilization) that is the culprit, not the wild and free creatures we actually are. Deep down every dog is a wolf.

[@DavidKlausa]

When I broach the topics of climate change/species loss/energy depletion, it's amazing the variety of ways people have of saying "don't worry about it!"

[@ronaldkable]

It's the ability to have a deeper connection with life and Mother Earth that's the best part of post doom and gloom for me. Can't help sometimes though getting deeply upset and angry at what we're doing to other living things, and ashamed, and sorrowful. Then the group of fairy wren birds pops around chattering, and all is alright again. Life will survive.

[@thegreatstory]

I fully agree, Ronald!

[@oliviachipperfield6029]

Omg so true! How do you talk to your kids about collapse and then "have a good shift at McDonald's"? I am in the midst of this now.

[@garyhoover9750]

Very good question, Olivia! And this is not only about working at McD’s, but at UPS or Amazon or every the co-op or hospital or bike shop. We need to see ourselves in true scale to the Universe, and to feel our mortality together in new ways….. learning to live with a hugely different set of expectations than is already programmed into us by dominant culture is an ongoing lesson….

[@EvEthereal]

"Hopium addiction - An addiction to a comforting belief or vision of the future that requires breaking the laws of physics, ecology, and biology" -I'd say that's succinct and accurate enough to go in the dictionary 8^)

[@Newtorin]

Great conversation as always! Even to this day I just can’t believe how we got here where we are! To this state of the planet.

[@Givemeamazda]

We didn't have any say in this. It is our ancestors that lived in collective denial for millennials, and even worse the few last generations "Boomers" and the generations before that.

[@Newtorin]

@@Givemeamazda half of the total damage was done from 90’s onwards.

[@carolinemorgan1712]

There are just too many of us; almost 8 billion humans. We have been like mould on bread; eventually there’s no more bread. All that will remain is dust.

[@TheDoomWizard]

Rich older men are unrelatable.

[@keithk8275]

I would really love a conversation with Jordan. So much of what I’ve come to see in the last couple years tracks. Especially in the life of my children. It think it made more feral.

[@natashamudford4011]

Someone commented on a recent Darkhorse Podcast video, something along the lines of how would they expect society to react when people begin to suspect they are in overshoot? If you are not familiar, this channel is a couple of cancelled biology professors discussing a variety of issues. Bret Weinstein and Heather (Heylig?) are a married couple that are delightful to listen to, however, I have not heard them talk about overshoot, abrupt climate change, or the things you tend to focus upon. I started listening during covid, which pretty much ruled the conversation. At any rate, I contributed to the comment section by mentioning Post Doom Conversations, which always leads to your channel (cuz I never can remember your channel name). Perhaps you could check out their channel, maybe contact them for an interview? Or they could interview you? Or perhaps a healthy good-natured debate? Although I don't quite like to try to convince others about the situation... let them have their ignorant bliss... (some would say that ignorant bliss is what got us here, but I think it's just a cyclical thing that happens)... I would like to know if Bret and/or Heather have come to this conclusion and just aren't talking about it, or if they have come to some other conclusion. Of course, if you have already interviewed one or both of them, please excuse my ramblings... and a link would be nice.😘

[@thegreatstory]

I've never communicated with Bret or Heather (yet!) but I deeply admire them and their work, and Connie and I recently read their latest book, which we loved. I agree, an interview either way would be fun!

[@robertemmett347]

Thank you for your videos, I have family and friends who would disagree with me about Climate Change and the effects of shortening the habitat of life on Earth, but I don't argue or debate them because it would be futile. The cards of life have been dealt out to humanity and we must play them as best as we can. I do hope and pray that renewable energy and electric vehicles will solve Climate Change, but I believe that Dr. Guy McPherson is correct about the destruction of habitat and the end of humanity. I hope everyone can get along because being angry and disagreeable is pointless, God Bless All of Us.

[@chickenfootranch]

Problems have solutions. Predicaments have responses. The best explanation for why renewable energy/electric vehicles are hopium drenched false solutions can be found in the book Bright Green Lies and in the documentary by the same name. Energy literacy is one of the keys to understanding our predicament. More people doing the work to get to collapse acceptance can increase our odds of being able to get along and collapse well.

[@therealkindle5365]

It became apparent to me many years ago that humanity lacks the required education to adapt using Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Jacque Fresco was our last hope. And he knew that there is a higher basis of probability for us to starve to death and kill each other than there is for a Resource-Based Economy to be installed. An RBE meaning - distributing all goods in services equally in line with the carrying capacity of the earth. We are far too savage to make this sudden jump.

[@abluecanoe]

31:30 - 1:05:35 List of things - work for a planned/just collapse.

[@raginald7mars408]

... as a German Biologist - this is a genetic Phenomenon of Conditioning PAIN - Reward patterns and expectations. A hyper complex Society trying to stay stable - which by Nature is impossible. Complexity is fragile and creates Chaos by sudden breakdowns. The Solutions we apply are standardized - to act FAST - which creates chain reaction runaways. This is by Nature unsolvable. It is a Phase Transition from low density populations to high density conglomerates - with incompatible factions - fighting each other. The actual war describes this chaotic chernobyllic chain reaction. Unstoppable... We will have to live with increasing damage and destruction - and try to protect those Bio Reservoirs like Rain Forests with natural tribes in Shamanic structures - having zero interest in getting “civilized”. Schumpeter described this in economics already in the 1940s as a Paradoxx of Self destruction via relentless efficiency and productivity. The world up 1900 with far less efficiency and low densities - was far more stable. Engineering to improve production is the fuel of self destruction. Kai Zen of Self extinction... Yes! we can...

[@josephfarkas5657]

My life has been miserable. That's the only upside of the apocalypse I ever saw. Been on this Doom train since 95' and it has been hell in this horror show of a country. At least I'll be dead soon. I wish I had the chance to have any kind of life. I only ever got a war to fight. Half of my friends are already dead. Now I look at them as the lucky ones.

[@meidaslisa]

I've been telling Ken for years we need to get a hold of drugs to take ourselves out (#14)

[@snowstrobe]

Apparently a bag filled with helium is the calmest, most painless way.

[@awakenacres]

I’ve been doing the permaculture thing for several years. Biggest mistake was getting too many chickens and ducks. Trying to feed them sustainably with food scraps was exhausting and I eventually switched to commercial feed. I’ve also noticed the wild creatures leave plenty of manure to keep the land fertile. I love my animals and plan to take care of them until they die from natural causes. Letting them loose into the wild to fend for themselves is not a humane option imo. I agree rabbits should not be kept in cages and am baffled why some in permaculture would promote such cruelty. They can be house pets or kept outdoors in a large pen with shelter.

[@thegreatstory]

Yup, I agree. And I still recommend permaculture, agroecology, and all things regenerative.

[@planetvegan7843]

To know and not do... is not to know.

[@thegreatstory]

Indeed.

[@AudioPervert1]

How does money work in Post Doom? In terms of it's importance and or existence even?

[@chickenfootranch]

Well, if you have any of it left in the game, and can be radical with it, what will you do? Leave it in a retirement account that will just go "poof"? Jump off the Titanic with your gold in suitcases? Or??

[@thegreatstory]

Local currencies and time-banks and barter systems will emerge organically as collapse continues.

[@Nottherebutthere]

Rewilding is great, but given collapse, I don't think you will be able to survive without a bit of homo collosus planting and plant management to support your foraging.

[@thegreatstory]

I think I can confidently say that Jordan and I both agree with that.

[@robertlussier2944]

I've been told I need a new hip. I have practically no cartilage left in my right hip, and have pretty constant pain as a result. I'm 65, and with a practical mindset, have decided that the cost/benefit does not make sense in these times. Of course, I get the arguments from friends and family that I should get it done, because they haven't REALLY thought about what's going on in the world, and the possible complications involved with such a surgery, are just as bad or worse as living with with the pain would be. 100 years ago, maybe just 50, the replacement wouldn't even have been possible, perhaps in 10 years, it won't be possible anymore.(and they tell me that a second replacement is often necessary, often in just 10 years) And there is no guarantee that any of us will be here.

[@markpellegrin417]

I dont agree that the problem is 'civilization'. Indigenous civilization? All civilization? ...i was talking with a wealthy liberal capitalist last month. I was ranting about capitalism. She said "the problem is human greed". Wealthy folks always move the conversation away from the system that gave them privilege -- and onto this general 'human nature' argument. Thus making any change in system pointless. Thus, keeping them on top. We dont know if this version of the biosphere is doomed. But we know that under CAPITALISM this version of the biosphere is doomed.

[@oneirishpoet]

Exactly, the problem capitalism is that it THRIVES on human greed and ignorance. Those who already have their wealth really don't give a damn about the rest of the poor working people on the planet who are struggling to survive. I live in a large urban and suburban metropolis with some VERY wealthy neighborhoods where rich assholes live in HUGE multi million dollar megamansions and drive vehicles that cost more than most people's houses...and they don't give a fuck about others, they got theirs and then put huge security gates around themselves as if that will save their precious possessions

[@Givemeamazda]

UBI is the worst idea. Silver and gold is the only money that should be used.

[@treefrog3349]

"Hopium" is mere denialism. "Copium" is wishful thinking

[@natashamudford4011]

Seems to me that copium would be more about distraction. Redirecting one's thinking away from the inevitable distant collapse to the current still holding together situation. Shopping for food for the last meal, and cooking and sharing and eating that last meal, this was the copium displayed in the movie Don't Look Up. (I haven't seen it, just heard about it.)

[@thegreatstory]

I'll be recording and posting a new video (30-35 min) tomorrow, titled, "HOPIUM DETOX AND RECOVERY: STOP TORTURING YOURSELF!" 🙂

[@johntresemer5631]

👍🙏

[@thegreatstory]

thanks

[@Bookhermit]

Why bother with all the "actions"? All we actually need is a low enough human population, quickly enough. Everything else is trivia. Trying to take all those actions, of course, WOULD kill off quite a lot of the population, but probably in ways that would start wars and destroy even more, thus further lowering the sustainable population limit.

[@thegreatstory]

I agree! Should we use your plan to quickly and painlessly reduce human population by several billion, or mine? :-) Actually, I think Gaia's plan will work just fine. It's already begun.

[@TennesseeJed]

Oh boy! New post doom!

[@TennesseeJed]

I so wish I could see Guy McPherson and Michael Dowd could do one of these. I know Guy would want the comments switched off, and that would be fine by me.

[@thegreatstory]

@@TennesseeJed Last time I asked him he politely refused. I'll try again.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@thegreatstory persistence pays off eventually.

[@TennesseeJed]

@@thegreatstory he just included you in defamation of some sort, unfortunately he is feeling very cornered. Oh well, I will leave the subject alone. Peace to all. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3TCna18paiEg6s

[@thegreatstory]

@@TennesseeJed Yea, I was rather shocked to see that, actually. I just sent him a long email in response. Will see what his response is. I requested an apology from him. Doubt I'll get it. :-)

[@Atheistbatman]

The game is no longer King of the Hill Now its Last Man Standing

[@darrinclements]

Why do people always forget about Micheal C Rupert.

[@soysanto9939]

Very few people want to contemplate global warming, let alone the collapse of global civilization and the likelihood they or their children face a dismal future and premature death. Almost nobody would voluntarily live anywhere near a sustainable level. Seems like mankind has tacitly elected to maintain civilization for as long as possible. Since collapse is inevitable, those choosing to deny or ignore collapse can at least enjoy civilization for as long as possible.

[@seankennedy2856]

Jordan Perry seems like he has a lot more to figure out.

[@radelman1]

I follow your work closely, Michael Dowd. This conversation wasn't a favorite.

[@thegreatstory]

I'm curious...what didn't work for you, specifically?

[@radelman1]

@@thegreatstory In general, and with continued respect/appreciation for the body of work as a whole? What seemed to me to be a couple of a bombastic moments. Maybe even a bit of showboating? A belly load of that in media everywhere it seems.

[@thegreatstory]

@@radelman1 Not sure I understand "a couple of bombastic moments" but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Personally, I greatly enjoyed it ... and my budding friendship with Jordan and his wife, Karen. Thanks, again!

[@karencrecco2922]

Isaiah 45:18. Jehovah created this earth for a purpose. Isaiah 55:10-11. Revelation 21:1-5. You are discounting the power of the Creator to carry out His purpose.

[@thegreatstory]

Thanks, Karen! As an eco-theologian, here's my understanding and interpretation of my Christian faith: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h5XPn4WOn7-enrc