Trope Talk: Top 3 Character Pet Peeves in YA Men

[@steph2994]

You forgot the "Player". He's gorgeous, has six pack abs (even though you never read a passage about him at the gym). Blue or green eyes, maybe smart even though he never studies. Slept with every girl under the sun and continues to do so. But he will do a complete 180. He will finally commit to a relationship. In order to get with the 'Plain Jane' who has no self confidence or sexual experience, or personality 😐 Edit: wow, guys thanks for likes 😄

[@JordanHarveybooks]

True, thats another one.

[@Alias_Anybody]

So basically me? Just kidding (apart from the green eyes). While such people do exist, a more realistic take would be if he doesn't stop ******* around afterwards and the commitment is just a nice fassade. Would make for some good drama, an aesop and a parody/subversion.

[@Josue-mv2fo]

Steph C That’s Wattpad

[@biazacha]

The whole never at the gym/studying makes me so mad everytime; like I'm sorry to break your bubble dear author, but real people work for their stuff. I can't remember the book but there's this hot guy that was able to speak like 4 languages and tons of other stuff but we never saw him with a freaking book or anything similar.

[@steph2994]

Jose A Hernandez A and every NA novel ever. In YA they are the mysterious player who has every girl swooning over them. But chooses our 'Plain Jane' protagonist.

[@steamedpunk13]

Can someone let Hollywood know that "abs" is not something that provides character development?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Haha true. And boobs too please.

[@steamedpunk13]

Jordan Harvey This trope needs some serious subversion. Can we just make really banal things really sexy? Character has a stable job and a good financial situation? Careless Whisper the shit out of that! Character paid off their mortgage? "Yes I like Piña Coladas!"

[@kellyalves756]

Chris Charnley I like how you think, dude.😎

[@aimia100]

Chris Charnley Dude, gurl, person that’s really cool, your comment is giving me life. Somebody get on this shit!

[@aimia100]

Chris Charnley Actually, now that I think about it, I have read a book with a similar idea. It was a parody of sorts, and it depicted at one point girls that were experimented and created to look absolutely stunning, the perfection of beauty. Then they were made to have sex with equally stunning and beautiful men in order to have the perfect generation of babies (to give context here, this book was criticizing Nazi Germany) At the end of the book, the women got so tired of beautiful men that they, quite literally, leapt over the ugliest men in their vicinity, which was pretty hilarious to read through. The ugly suddenly became the new sexy. :’)

[@SarahZ]

I can see the suffering in your eyes as you talk about some of these cliches... relatable

[@briannalee1998]

Sarah Z hey girl! Love your channel!

[@DororoXPenana]

A trope I hate is when the male interest completely degrades the female protagonist. He calls her ugly names and insults her with colorful words until, "omg he didn't call me fat today, is this love?"

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yikes.

[@tisvana18]

DororoXPenana I'm writing a character who is like this. Granted, it's based off of an abusive relationship I was in where such behavior was very common. It won't end as nicely for anyone as it did for me, and my relationship did not end nicely.

[@thisnigerianlovessuya]

After has left the chat

[@c.n9219]

In latinamerica there's a so popular Wattpad book where the guy calls de MC "patética". Who means, someone who gives pitty 😳 The worst is, the fangirls think it's "cute" and "romantic". Still can't understand why?! Why could be a good thing to be the "PATHETIC" of somebody!!

[@AnaSquared]

"The nerdy guy that wants to get laid" *coughs in John Green's general direction*

[@sp-iw5hk]

Ana Square dayyyuuuummmm 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Forceprincess]

You really need to read "Turtles all the way down". also don't cough John Green's direction. That's just impolite.

[@arabella-gracebrown5309]

Shauna Mother of Penguins he makes one different book and suddenly we’re supposed to forget all the other books

[@moonkookie1505]

and what do you know, only a year later and this comment could be interpreted in another way

[@portgasdann3389]

@@moonkookie1505 explain please haha

[@queendsheena1]

Overprotective guy trope is super gross. No I don't want my own personal stalker. Get lost! Great video Jordan.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Seriously! It needs to stop being romanticized.

[@strawberrybunny.2983]

queendsheena1 thing is the overprotective person trope could be a great source of strife in a relashioship; Specially if the other person is some one whose independent and doesnt like to be suffocated

[@keegster7167]

I think an overprotective man can be good because it's a good, recognisable source of conflict, but only if he isn't *too* overprotective to become inpractical (which would stop the story for a while) or stalkerlike.

[@strawberrybunny.2983]

King Keegster yeah ; i dont mind over protection as long as its treated as a serious flaw that someone should be over it

[@sukanyaparashar9474]

Edward can just shooo

[@aug1014]

*cough* Christian Grey *cough*

[@GrahamCStrouse]

The idea of moving to a new town & suddenly being stalked by a dude obsessively isn’t attractive to you? Huh. Guess that explains all the restraining orders...

[@FSEThompson]

I’m so glad you brought up the “perfect disabled guy” trope, like there seems to be an assumption that a disability is a personality trait instead of a situation that can affect a person in a thousand different ways. Plus, it plays into that “inspiration porn” where disabled characters exist only so that an abled audience can like. cry over how tragic it is that someone SO GREAT has to deal with something SO HORRIBLE. Like no shut up lmao just let them live their lives

[@Alias_Anybody]

So we have the stalker, the edgy badboy and the generic 80s action hero?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yeah, to name a few!

[@sugarveins]

sometimes all three

[@randomreader]

I am also getting sick of the bad boy neighbor trope. We need more nice boys in fiction. Is that too much to ask? XD

[@JordanHarveybooks]

NICE BOYS ARE GREAT

[@Nionivek]

I think Bad boys are pushed due to their mystique, a love of "Fixing people", AND most of all... because they are far easier to write. For a nice boy you have to actually work on a personality and plot... For a bad boy you already got their personality and plot wrapped up. Though the WEIRDEST "Bad Boy Neighbor" I've seen was when she was a teenager and he was a adult... But the point of the relationship was that he sort of lost hope in life and relationships were just a transaction, yet she loved him in the naïve way only someone that young could... Making him sort of step up and be an adult again after she shattered his pessimism (and they never had a full relationship... It was STILL kind of icky). Wait... I just said another "Bad Boy" plot about a girl fixing him, albeit one where the end result wasn't them going out.

[@Tamaki742]

Or can we have bois that look like bad bois but they're actually soft bois?

[@constellationnova688]

Can we talk about how the bad boys always turn into abusive man whores instead of rebels focused on what’s right?

[@Moocow2003]

Also how bad boys must always wear ripped jeans and leather, and nice boys must never wear those things. Like I never realised that people were supposed to take personality tests before buying their clothes? (also their names. No, Janet and Bryan did not name their child Xaviandus. Stop w that trope.)

[@leviscozyworld]

BEING SICK OR DISABLED IS NOT A CHARACTER FLAW 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 thank you for saying this because I'm SO tired of seeing it. I'm sick. I learned to cope and live my life as much as I can around it. My sister is disabled. She learned to live her life to the fullest with her disability. DISABLED PEOPLE CAN BE HAPPY LMAO WHY DONT AUTHORS GET THIS !!! Sorry to rant. I love your channel!!

[@sofiabravo1994]

Flaws is what makes people interesting and unique. It doesn’t have to be bad.

[@oof-rr5nf]

Sofia B Yeah. But disabilities aren't something people usually have a say in. So how can we list them as character flaws?

[@arkoadele]

I don't even know how many books I've read where the disabled character only gets their happy ending by somehow 'overcoming' their disability AND IM SO SICK OF IT THATS NOT GOOD REPRESENTATION

[@ellaboehme6748]

I agree, but people with disabilities do have a lot of struggles, and a lot of good stories about disabilities concentrate on the struggle the person has with it and then they learn to love it and embrace it, to turn it into a strength

[@oof-rr5nf]

Pip Boeheem Sure dude. I also have found that narrative quite encouraging for my own self in the past. But there are millions of people with disabilities on our planet and mainstream movies tends to stick solely to the narrative you just described. ****Make it a learning experience for the abled! Give them something to cry about for a couple of hours! They'll feel like they are more empathetic and thus feel better about themselves!**** Make movies that span the complexity of any disabled person's life - the mudanity of the daily grind, their passions, their families, their quirks, their humour, their, just, _everything._ Make movies that are more for them? Instead of just about them but for abled people like me? I am not saying people have never tried it, but I don't see it being done well quite often. Maybe indie films have it figured out. I wouldn't know because I am a bigass failure for a movie nerd lol. A film that I saw that I did feel put me directly in the shoes of its disabled protagonist and yet fleshed their character out immensely well, all the while feeling quite true to life, and neverrrrr looking down on the guy or treating his disability as a "flaw" was The Way He Looks. IT IS THE BOMB LOOK IT UP GO WATCH IT. I should rewatch it myself . . .

[@HollyWay]

Possibly my most hated male trope (because I'm a writer and lazy writing pisses me off) is the Bad Guy Who Never Changes Or Apologises But Is Now Redeemed Because We Said So. A perfect example of this is Damon Salvatore from The Vampire Diaries. He does so many horrible, horrible things, never feels remorse over them or apologises and yet EVERYONE FORGIVES HIM just because the writers want to manipulate the audience into thinking he's changed when there is literally no evidence of that in his behaviour. He also falls into the Bad Boy Who's Only Good For Her trope, which I also hate. *Acting* good to get/stay in someone's pants is NOT the same as trying to be a good person or actually caring about others. Make flawed characters by all means, but if you want to redeem them you might wanna try actually redeeming them! Also, I really like your added point about characters with disabilities. It's really weird to make someone's disability their defining "flaw" as if they would be the literal perfect human specimen if they were healthy. People with disabilities shouldn't have to be "better" than abled people to make up for some perceived deficit. We have a lot of room for improvement in the portrayal of so many groups and this is just one of them. Long comment, sorry 😂 thanks for making me think x

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Holly Way You have so many great points here. I definitely agree with Damien - his “arc” is so lazy.

[@manoeksbooknook]

Holly Way yes yes yes ! Agree so much on Damon

[@HollyWay]

Manoek van Vlimmeren and his character had so much potential to be interesting! Then again, that show eventually ruined every character so it's really a moot point haha

[@blondbraid7986]

This is so true, and so many writers fail at redemption arcs because they still want their character to be a cool bad boy, just now he's on the good guys team. But in order to actually have a compelling character arc, the character needs to change, they need to realize they are hurting others, learn humility and admit they were wrong, and for the good guys to actually demand them to change their ways and not instantly forgive them. And I'm also so tired of hack writers acting like doing something positive only in order to impress a girl is a selfless act, it reminds me of bad cartoon adaptions of fairytales where the narrator talks like a boy rescuing a princess in order to marry her and get her kingdom was altruistic. For the female version of the trope, nope, the heroine dropping everything in order to run to the side of the male love interest isn't a cute act of selflessness either, in the best case scenario she is just a shallow character with no life of her own whatsoever, in the worst case scenario she's neglecting important duties just for the sake of some guy she met.

[@aimia100]

Lmao, I have mild depression, does that mean I’m the definition of perfection now? I kinda find it hilarious when in a book, the readers might think that the character is perfect - with only their illness or disability holding them back - but in real life, the stigma of mental illness suddenly swallows everything up and suddenly you’re just a weak ass bitch that only wants attention, in a bad way.

[@mmmhhm]

Ive got a couple. The guy who's willing to give up everything for the girl. I'm talking about not only his personal views, but his family, his people, his culture in some instances. He will always change for her instead of finding a compromise. There's also the "this guy is a killer and has threatened me with violence/and or rape, but he is hot snd that makes it okay." See the book, "Black Ice" to understand. And finally, the friendzone character. I know friendzone is a shit thing, but in a lot of YA fiction, there's always a guy friend who's in love with the main character, but because he's not some hot british dude with an angsty backstory, he is nothing more than the friendzone guy. See "the mortal instruments" series.

[@LtBasil]

OH GOSH MORTAL INSTRUMENTS I hate that series, it's the DEFINITION of all the WORST YA tropes and the only character who's even remotely likeable is treated like garbage by all the other characters. Poor Simon...

[@theo278]

Lt. Basil I think Alec is fine and so Magnus. Jace could die and I wouldn't care. Magnus and Alec have a shot at lasting unlike everyone else. Jace and Clary have the bumpiest relationship ever see the entire series. Isabelle and Simon felt forced to me. It might just be me on that.

[@anindobagchi3408]

Alex Fray You're right about a few of those things (in my opinion). Magnus and Alec seemed good enough to me. As for Clary and Jace it's true that their relationship was bumpy but also it felt very real to me. You're absolutely right about Simon and Izzy tho. They did not even know each other that well and Izzy was completely out of Simon's league but then all of a sudden she fell for him and Simon forgot about everything in the world but her and BAM happily ever after

[@jmd0605]

Shadowhunters the series is kinda good though. The dialect is more modern, Clary is more likeable, Jace is slightly more open (though Isabelle's description of him is literally the same as the book's) Malec is more fleshed out, and Sebastian/Jonathan is a WAAAAY more sympathizable character

[@radiyasidialiyu9281]

@@jmd0605 the books are worse for me to be honest

[@akiosutato717]

I just found this video and I have to say THANK YOU! As a guy who isn't "masculine", I'm so sick of the manly men that practically BREATHE testosterone. I already deal with both guys and girls in real life telling me I'm not manly enough, but then there's just so many movies and books saying the perfect guy is the one that's emotionless, with so many girls saying how real life guys could NEVER compare. Just gets a little disheartening after a while. Like i know I can't NOT watch hachi and not bawl like a newborn, and I may NOT be a super jealous controlling person who always has your exact coordinates, bUT I CAN MAKE SOME BOMB ASS PANCAKES BRUH! But in all seriousness, I really appreciate this video! Definitely gonna watch more of you!

[@reeba4824]

I'm sorry you gotta go through that :( I know so many guys that arent truly themselves because they have to act "masculine" in front of everyone. I say everyone should just be themselves; male, female, whatever! Ppl need to accept that everyone FEELS and deserves to express it.

[@akiosutato717]

Shadowcat Aw thank you! Glad you found it funny. Really appreciate the encouragement!

[@joonkorre]

Keep doing you and making those bomb ass pancakes ヾ(*´∀ ˋ*)ﾉ

[@luzcardo8481]

I'd prefer books about guys like you, real ones... And good cookers too (Pancake 🥞)

[@vesa5434]

I hate how not expressing certain emotions like sadness is seen as not manly, but in reality being emotionless or unable to express emotions properly means you are unhealthy mentally. It is a good thing to be emotional. It means you are human.

[@ryanleatigaga7596]

And, thus, I stared into the eyes of this beautiful specimen of humanity. His irises gleamed with the light of a thousand suns, his body reminiscent of many gods of Greek mythology, and his lips were as pink as the meat of a freshly chopped up animal. I was gazing at the man, socializing with his friends, until I was grabbed by the principal to his office, where we talked about this pathetic thing called "personal space". He then let me off with a warning. -My translation of the common "pretty boy" trope

[@ruithebaguette2862]

And his name was Patrick Star.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

Mmmmm... meat lips.

[@avastepanian567]

Gosh, the whole "Wow, he looks like a Greek god!" thing just bugs the heck out of me, because like, which one? Zeus? Poseidon? Ares? Hephaestus? (probably not Hephaestus) 🐲🐉

[@roirup1942]

I have mixed feelings towards the "bad boy/girl with a tragic back story" trope. Usually, they use their backstory as a way to justify or excuse their actions when in reality it should be the reason why they grow as a person. What I'm saying is that if the character becomes from a shitty person to a good one, then I love this trope (we've all been assholes at one point); instead, creators "justify" their character's actions instead of growing and developing them.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Exactly! I'm not saying that it can't be done well, I'm just saying that most the time it isn't.

[@saladcaesar7716]

Agree with you. That's why I praise Zuko's character from avatar the last air bender. He is your bad boy with a tragic past. But his tragic past is not used to excuse his bad action but to explain why he act like that. His douchy attitude in the first season is not romantisized

[@feelstora3]

Thank you for saying that! I actually wrote a book where the male lead has a very, very tragic back story. If you hear it you'd think he'd totally turn out to be a villain. In truth he's the opposite. Always showed his strength in not giving in to it. Probably the nicest character I ever wrote (he's not perfect in his actions and admits to it... which is another reason why he is :D). Because people have a choice if they become a victim of their past (but they don't have to). Well... there's a reason he could fight that but this is another trope :D.

[@lj0339]

The first trope description, Twilight was sooooo the example in her head lol

[@JordanHarveybooks]

(yes)

[@santanasg8445]

Uggggghhh the over protective boyfriend is such an annoying trope! The worst is that people actually find it romantic, and most of the times their attittudes are just like ??? no ??? that's an obsession that actually can be related to real life new's stories where a boy shots their ex-girlfriend because they broke up

[@meiwijaya3906]

santanasg Then When you're one who has experienced extreme jealousy like that irl from bfs. It is honestly terrifying at times and how people can find it romantic in stories 😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖😖

[@faithfulrose5372]

I had this girl who liked me and I’m not into girls and she was completely stalkish and she would get jealous and when I try to talk to other people and try and kiss me and play with my hair and etc. so the overprotective and possessive trope is just weird and uncomfortable when you experience it in life

[@Nemamka]

YES Thank you! It's absolutely not romantic when they want to know every step of yours, just because they 'love you so much', yeah sure honey, sounds more like you're unhealthily attached to me like a huge baby or something.

[@GT-wj3gl]

I've dealt with female partners like this. I couldn't stand a male partner doing the same thing.

[@constellationnova688]

We need more books with shy, actually kind boys with personalities instead of the garbage we usually get. I mean so far a lot of my male characters are garbage playboys, but those are characters who I made like that on purpose, wanting people to hate them and realize, “Hey! This trope is stupid!” But I am writing a book where the male love interest is the exact opposite of these tropes.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Constellation Nova yeah, I mean they don’t even have to be shy. Nice guys come in all kinds of personalities!

[@constellationnova688]

Jordan Harvey True! Shy guys are really adorable, though. I’ve actually never read a book with a shy male love interest...

[@ClaireYunFarronXIII]

Constellation Nova I agree!! 👍👍

[@Ana-su3fb]

Constellation Nova read “The unexpected everything” by Morgan Matson. I just finished this book and even tho I didn’t really like it, most people love it, so you may give it a try and the love interest in there is really shy and awkward.

[@lenap319]

Can i read your book?

[@SpaceandGoats]

The obsessive trope in the YA is honestly the worse part in either male or female characters. It can be down right disturbing and horrifying. Jerks with the sad backstory should be an explanation, not a justification. It's thin line. I think Severus Snape, love him or hate him, is the former. Being physically and emotionally abused and bullied do not excuse his shit attitude. I have many complaints toward JK Rowling writing, but she did well with Snape's characterization.

[@glhf2]

I think Snape being the former was due to Lily rejecting any attempt to separate her from other people who were muggle born. It showed that being a jerk, even with sad backstory, had consequences.

[@SpaceandGoats]

glhf2 I don’t think that’s all of it, but there are clear consequences for Snape’s behavior. He also never catches a break like at all.

[@Scanny524]

Good point on Snape, he was a great character due to being sympathetic yet undeniably awful. You think he's crap, but you also get why and feel for him a little. Of course, some people took that the wrong way and use his love for Lily as some kind of redemption, which annoys me to no end. But that's a fan issue, not Rowling's fault as she didn't really frame it like that in the story. I was just slightly irked by Harry giving his kid his name (oh I don't know Harry, how about you fucking give even a middle name to GINNY'S DEAD BROTHER BEFORE YOUR LEAST FAVOURITE TEACHER IF YOU'RE GONNA GO DOWN THE HONOUR THE DEAD ROUTE), but outside of that Snape's awful stuff was never dismissed in the story.

[@SpaceandGoats]

I don't think Severus is 'undeniable awful'. He's just a guy with a nasty personality with a lot of hurt and never learned how to deal with his hurt. Or allowed to deal with it. He's a tragic figure, not a bad guy. But I do in fact believe he earned that respect from Harry to name a child after him. Severus did earn redemption at the end of the story. Was his attitude towards some of the kids shit? Yes. Did he do bad things? Yes. But as I said, those are explained wonderfully by JK Rowling. You can see where he is coming from. Its not an excuse. Which is my point. And besides, taking Fred's name away from, I don't know, his twin brother and giving it to Harry would be insulting on many levels. Harry was honoring the dead, i.e. the only man who didn't have family or friends who could honor him.

[@Scanny524]

Elizabeth B I think anyone who can do what Snape did to children as young as eleven years old is undeniably awful, regardless of why. There's room for redemption, sure, but he never redeemed that side of him. Taking Fred's name from George is something I wouldn't consider an issue, but since that happened offpage (that doesn't come off as well as offscreen) it's up to interpretation, it just always annoyed me that Harry pretty much gave all the kids names for people he lost even though Ginny suffered too. Especially when you consider that Ginny most likely suffered Snape's abuse and he never redeemed himself to her in any way. Again, I think he's a good character, but I can't pretend he's anything but a terrible person.

[@StarlightReader]

I miss books that are realistically written, where romance isn't rushed and everything takes its time in the novel. I cant even remember the last time i read a book like that or what it was called.

[@callianr6980]

SJ Reviews They still exist. Garbage stories have always been prevalent in any genre and the past was no exception. Some personal favorites of mine: In Other Lands, Six of Crows, and Anything by Brandon Sanderson.

[@omniabakry9041]

Fangirl is really cute and attachments

[@Shiirow]

I think the "Bad Boy/Girl with a tragic backstory" could be a trope that, if written well, could work. Emphasis on... _could_ since if written poorly comes off as just needlessly abusive. They could use the love interest as a way of coping and overcoming the horrible things in the past and let it go to become a better person, the person they would have been if not for the horrible shit that happened to them. Thus the two come together in a more cohesive, trusting, and healthier relationship because they overcame this seemingly insurmountable obstacle.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Shiirow I think anything can work if it’s written well!

[@lenap319]

Acotar, rhysand has a tragic backstory (he's a rape and abuse victim) and he works through the trauma with the mc. Without being a jerk

[@UnicornofWar]

From what I remember, Augustus was flawed though. He was arrogant and never satisfied til everyone on the planet knew who he was (Leaving his mark, so to speak). He feared oblivion.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I suppose, but this drive to be known didn't make him a bad person or drive him to do questionable things. It was just a fear/desire. I think had he not been sick/dying and just a regular dude, people would've called him out for basically being flawless. Side note: I just watched your video about the live action Mulan, like ten minutes ago and it was awesome. Subscribed!

[@UnicornofWar]

Eh. Maybe it's my memory playing tricks on me. Gonna have to revisit the story to check. Also, thank you :D Love your content as well.

[@dorras8436]

Unicorn of War and Jordan Harvey in the same comment section? My life is complete.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Unicorn of War - Thomas Vaccaro It has been over a year since I read it, so I apologize if I’m misremembering it, but I didn’t think there was anything too glaring as far as faults, especially when compared to all of his positive traits.

[@UmbraKrameri]

I have to agree with Unicorn of War. I think John Green even stated in an interview that he specifically wanted his character not to be defined by their illnesses and have character flaws irrespective of their cancer. Although I'm open to admit that it probably turned out less good in the case of Augustus than Hazel or Isaac, but I still see the effort there. I think it's not a far shot to see Augustus as arrogant, even self-centered as he goes on and on about his big, silly dreams about being famous and leaving a lasting mark on a world more and more desperately as the story progresses and parallelly deprecating the efforts of the people in his life. The more interesting thing is, that even when he gets repeatedly called out by Hazel's more down-to-earth approach of personal self-worth, we still can't really view his thinking as a character flaw. I think this is mainly because it's kind of a normal thing to think for a 17-year old that he can become famous, special, leave a mark on the world, call it whatever you want. So Augustus' character flaw wouldn't cause a problem if he would be a normal teenage boy, without cancer. His main problem is that he has to take the hit of reality most of us get only in their late twenties or thirties a bit early. Which, might I emphasize, in itself is not really a bad thing, but it is a very human thing to experience and I found it easy to relate to. Sure, we can't say that these things, as you say 'make him a bad person or drive him to do questionable things'. But I think it's kind of unrealistic to expect to have this kind of deep character flaws in every character. I mean, most of the people around me don't have major tragic character flaws. Most of them have minor character flaws that make them maximum weird, but not a bad person. :D I still wouldn't call them flawless by any mean.

[@sortasofi254]

I hate it when the male character is reduced to being the love interest (Tobias Eaton in divergent, Adam in shatter me) and are extremely dependant of their partner. They abandon everything for them and are supposed to be this muscular, strong, manly fighter but look like sad puppies the whole story. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE when a male character is vulnerable and sincere, but in this trope their decisions MUST follow whatever their partner has in mind, and they can't seem to tell when the person they're in love with does some things wrong. Since they're normally paired with the oh-i-cant-do-anything-right-everyones-better-off-without-me lead, I just feel like it's overused and quite toxic

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Sofía True! And they don’t seem to have their own lives outside of when they’re with the main character.

[@mimz881]

Just a hot piece of ass for the mousey average looking female protagonist to lock tongues with and have not so graphic sex with in between the scenes where they're not fighting the oppressive government which they only realised was bad once they reached the age of 16.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

That's so accurate it hurts.

[@tympestbooks1727]

I feel like that's a weird sort of mirror to a lot of the female protagonists in the romances I used to read. They were meant to be the main character, but then just rolled over for the angsty guy who did violence at monsters or whatever the antagonists of that particular series were. It kind of makes me wonder where the non-toxic romance couples are.

[@Nionivek]

I LOATHE, absolutely LOATHE the whole "Give up your dreams for love" aspect. One movie summed it up best with the Mafioso going to his Ex who is not only the first female president of the United States but is RIGHT about to sign a document that would herald world peace! But he shows her their child and she is so surprised she gives up being the President on the spot. I can respect a sacrifice of self-fulfillment for the sake of selflessness but most of these are pretty needless sacrifices that are often either tokens or HIGHLY underestimate how much "an hour everyday" is in terms of time.

[@bearhow4876]

I’m not sure if this is covered in the “nerd that needs to get laid” trope, but what about the “side character banished to the friend zone and is fighting tooth and nail to get out of it” trope?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

THE WORST.

[@Alias_Anybody]

...which is actually sort of understandable if our female protagonist fell for one of the top 3 archetypes. Would also have some nice potential for a parody.

[@hind__]

bearhow Especially when the best friend is a lot more likable...

[@bearhow4876]

hind I know right!!

[@theauthenticobserver]

Agree on all counts. In terms of the awful ‘sexy bad boy’ trope, I reckon this was done really well in A Streetcar Named Desire. It’s been years since I’ve seen it, but from what I remember he was portrayed as a hunky bad boy, but then the reality of being in a relationship with someone like that was also shown. Thoughtful video as always!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I've heard of it, but I've never seen it. I'll have to check it out!

[@rakka2533]

I would highly recommend you to read the play first (or watch it in theater if you're lucky) before watching the film. I studied Streetcar during A Levels and my class and teacher were very disappointed when we watched the film. They gloss over some very important details (such as the true reason for Blanche's previous husband's death) and even completely changes the end of the story, altering the message the original was trying to present. This reduces the social commentary, which is really sad because its social criticism is what Streetcar so excels in. The detail in the stage directions also add more depth than the film's interpretation, though that may just be personal taste. Anyway, Streetcar is one of my absolute favourite plays, so I hope you enjoy it! (^_^)

[@uggbootgf]

Yeah I liked that stanley wasn’t romanticized. It was very clear that Tennessee was on the womens side in this play and the way it ends hurts bc you know that the cycle of abuse will continue and now theres a child in the home who will grow up with that. (At least she decides to leave him in the movie, even if it is just up to eunices upstairs)

[@MrJtb17]

Me when I saw the title of this video: "Please, please, please, don't describe any of my characters." Me after watching the video: "Yay! I'm Jordan Harvey Approved! I can die happy now."

[@JordanHarveybooks]

hahah

[@constellationnova688]

A YA male trope I hate is where the Supernatural lover is all angsty because he’s a werewolf, or a vampire, and then treats his girlfriend like trash because of it or constantly runs away from their relationship problems. Like, no! Stop!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Constellation Nova Right?

[@SquadraCorse]

That's a good one - I hate it when there's a character that is special in some way but all they do is complain about it. They always seem to end up telling their (not special) companions how terrible it is to be them. It's like someone that's rich complaining about how hard that is to their poor friends. I wonder if the authors think this will make the character more relatable because they've 'suffered'. I guess it can be done well - Jessica Jones for example. She hates her powers but that's because she blames herself for the car crash that killed her family. So I guess it can work if the character has a real reason to hate the thing that makes them special.

[@inkypunk]

SquadraCorse I think the main difference is Jessica is intentionally flawed and the people around her don't really like her that much (unless they're very sympathetic). Most of the broody vampire boyfriends are never chastised for their behaviour, you're supposed to sympathise and let them continue being whiny assholes for no reason

[@SquadraCorse]

I agree - I was trying to say that Jessica was an example of it being done right (IMHO).

[@GrayAcre]

10/10 reasons I love Rick Riordan. All the Percy Jackson, Heroes of Olympus, Trials of Apollo and Magnus Chase series have characters who are built strong and flawed. Its just funny that characters made to be the children of Gods, who ride around on a flying dragon-headed ship and die more than Sam and Dean Winchester are more relatable and real than half of the characters in any YA novel.

[@sparklegirl1006]

I love those books ❤️

[@fantasyshadows3207]

Leo being a bad boy was honestly hilarious I wonder if Rick was pulling a joke or fan service with Leo pretending to be a bad boy

[@kittyflufflove5894]

THE WHOLE VIDEO I WAS THINKING "WATTPAD!!! WATTPAAAD!!!! W A T T P A D!!!!!"

[@msii9119]

I hate HATE when a love interest is all like “your mine” I really find that annoying

[@ikigaime3158]

I love when KZbinrs do pet peeves videos, especially about book tropes. It helped me focus on my own writing, as well! Great video!

[@noja1155]

Ughhh the obsessive bad boy trope is so annoying! Especially if he's also really violent in his over-protectiveness. I watched like 5 minutes of The Kissing Booth on Netflix last night, which is the movie adaptation of a wattpad book (already sounds _great_, right?) But I couldn't get through it because I swear the love interest had every harmful trope there is - violent, overprotective, but also really hot and kind of a bad boy. And even better, he's the main character's best friend's brother! I just can't deal with it anymore 😂 On a separate note, sometimes, I think the jerk trope can be done well if the girl doesn't fall for him until he learns the error of his ways. So he has to go through some character development by learning from those around him before she actually starts to like him. But that's just me, what do you think about that? 😄

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I think anything can be done well, I'd never say otherwise.

[@guadalupeoc7157]

The dude from the kissing both was so obviusly violent that even his brother believe that he punched herrr wtfff, and the girl Is the only one that helps him to control his anger (so fucking stupid). I'm so fucking tired of this roles, so tired of abusive, violent man been considered "sexy".

[@noja1155]

Guadalupe O'Connor Ugh same it's such a harmful trope yet it's used in so many stories, and young men look up to it and get the wrong ideas

[@fangirllifealways1916]

BooksWithMili IT WAS A WATTPAD BOOK?? That's a recipe for disaster

[@noja1155]

Fangirl Life Always Yup, unfortunately.

[@Zelda00Gamer]

I agree these male tropes are annoying. I never understand how a girl can go from I hate that guy he’s cruel and unusual! To omg I love him he’s actually soooo deep. Like authors try to convince us that we can go from I hate you to I love you but when their male characters start out so awful I find it hard to believe they can change so much or are able to hide so much sometimes knowing the protagonist for years prior! Like never once are they nice? Or vulnerable? Or human? Ugh idk

[@Nionivek]

It is a utilitarian story structure: What is the obstacle? The love interest himself. When done right they are stories to fall inlove with... Yet they are such low hanging fruit that they are done poorly and done poorly often.

[@Zelda00Gamer]

Nionivek I have read a good story or two with this basis in my time. So I agree with you. If done well and believably it’s fine but as you said it rarely is

[@alonelygoldfish2966]

The bad boy trope can be done well in my opinion. If he disregards rules based on moral objections not because he thinks he's above the rules. If he treats everyone BUT the main character with disrespect instead of disrespecting the main character. If he shows vulnerability and has a backstory that explains his rude behavior. And he has to show character growth by the end of the story.

[@alonelygoldfish2966]

Thank you, Jordan Harvey, for the heart.

[@ttiger86]

Nah. If he disrespects everyone but her...what's so special about her? There's no one in the world he can respect? Wow. That's some awful backstory. She must really have to work hard to earn his respect bc no one else has before.

[@hellothere2464]

A Lonely Goldfish so... Kaz Brekker?

[@pachamaridamofasat7803]

My most hated trope is the "Serial killer with tragic background story" I love to read thrillers but I want an antagonist that I can love because he is through and through rotten and not that "Ughh my father raped me as a kid" shit

[@JordanHarveybooks]

hahahha

[@inkypunk]

It's a fast and easy way to make them sympathetic I suppose. Feels cheap after a while. In fairness, a lot of real serial killers have been warped by childhood abuse but that's not really why these writers use that trope, I feel. See also, in supernatural fiction: every werewolf/vampire/pixie hunter has a tragic backstory in which a pixie murdered their whole family or their wife that spurred them to take revenge on the whole species.

[@TiffanyRay]

Ms Inkypunk the only way that type of cliche would work is if the girl is severely fucked up herself. Like a bonnie clyde senario versus a domenating toxic harley quinn joker relationship. And I get the tragic back story has been used a thousand times. But it cant be annoying if its used in a new inventive way

[@meiwijaya3906]

A lot of actual serial killers have been evil since birth and theyre still acting like nah a killer needs a tragic backstory although in reality most are "well adjusted normal looking and sounding" nothing happened to them to make them like that.

[@vintagebookish]

I definitely agree with everything you said. One I really dislike is the ' I'm only being a jerk to protect you'.

[@georgiac.5352]

I used to love these type of YA love stories when I was a middle schooler and didn’t know anything about relationships. I liked guys, I was shy, they didn’t like me back, so I read romance all the time. I thought those relationships were amazing and I wanted them. Now, when I try to read my favorite books from back then I’m like wow how did I want this relationship.

[@sietskevisser8409]

I think you see these types of characters a lot in YA is because (youngers) readers read about them and think that is the way how it's supposed to be. So if one of them becomes a writer and writes about the same sort of characters the cycle just continues on. Btw did you go te the hairdresser? Your hair looks kinda brown mixed with red. If so, it suits you well!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I did just get my hair cut and dyed -- thank you!! And yes, it's an unfortunate cycle that will hopefully end one day!

[@emmajeema]

I want to read a story with the extremely protective boyfriend with all the stereotypes, but have ALL of the background characters know it’s unhealthy and try to stop it.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Cinnamon Bun that’d be a fun twist.

[@Scanny524]

Yeah, I'd love to see a film that's first half is all tropey YA stuff, the protagonist falls into an obsessive relationship and all. But the second half is her realising that it's super unhealthy and creepy, and slowly pulling herself out of her situation with the help of friends and family. Even with a flip in how the movie is shot to show the change in perspective, like framing the guy as the hero turning into framing him as something more like a horror movie monster, which he kinda is in real life terms. I mean, that'd be great in book form too, I just really like the idea of working that into visual storytelling too.

[@lenap319]

Acotar. It's a major plot point in the second book and the mc also knows it's unhealthy

[@empressfreya9872]

Lena with a Box problem is that she jumps straight to a dude who isn't any better

[@lenap319]

No Love uhm, i may sound baised, but rhys is giving her a lit of freedom. He doesn't try to control feyre and doesn't force her to do things she diesn't want to or holds her back. He was willing to let her marry tamlin (he isn't nice, bit he has character development which a lit of people ignore) if that is what majes her happy. Inknow he isn't a perfect character, but he doesn't apply for the trope

[@honoree-louisenguyen8634]

It’s ridiculous that all these harmful tropes are still running rampant in books, so it’s always great to see them called out! You’re right to point out that some (or most?) of them are not just in YA, but they definitely do more damage when it comes to younger readers. Thanks for another great video!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yeah, it's true that lot's of them can be found outside of YA, but I think that sometimes they are at their most harmful or poorly executed when in YA.

[@user-fy7ov7gq7e]

Your videos give me so so so much life! and I don't mind the transition of background at all, kind of fresh. Personally I actually like "villain" love interests with sad back stories when the protagonist isn't marginalized/submissive but is equally or more powerful mentally/physically.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

jen somewhere Yeah, that’s fine. I’m just not down for abuse, ya feel?

[@user-fy7ov7gq7e]

Jordan Harvey 10000%

[@constellationnova688]

PROTAGONIST X ANTAGONIST IS MY FAVORITE THING EVER

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Constellation Nova (Zutara forever)

[@constellationnova688]

Jordan Harvey (Zutara should’ve been endgame)

[@nightbreed9305]

You should do pet peeve on villains if you haven't already. People don't understand what makes them great characters. Or at least the people writing them don't. They just take a guy who says "I'm the bad guy" and in the next chapter they say "Oh no! I've been defeated! Your plot armour is too strong!" Now, it could be because I haven't every book and I could be completely wrong when I say I haven't seen an effective villain that actually put chills up my spine and actually put fear into me except the main villain of The 5th Wave franchise as far as recently goes. That guy shocked me because I was expecting President Snow... again who just hides in a castle and has his henchmen do everything for him. He was the methodical chess player villain who countered every move with anticipation and and proves time and time again just how brilliant he can be. But at the same time when the heroes come to face him, he doesn't monologue, he doesn't get beat because he wasn't paying attention, he doesn't send his henchman to do it for him. He gladly cleans house and if he leaves you alive, it's on purpose, and if you stand in the way of his plan and you refuse to cooperate, he kills your sibling right in front of you. I feel there should be more like this and if there is and I have missed them, sorry. Just making an observation on what I've experienced. What do you think? Cause I know like with this video there are tropes I am tired of that if you hadn't of mentioned it I would have forgotten.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

That's definitely a possibility for a future video, but since I have done a video on how to do villains right, I don't think it's a priority right now. Will definitely add it to the video ideas list though! :)

[@steph2994]

NightbreedGaming I feel like the darkling from Shadow and Bone is a good villain. Holland and the twins from A darker shade of magic and the king from Children of Blood and Bone. But other wise, you are right. There's not that many great villains out there. And besides the ones I've mention. Its been a loooong time since I read a good villain.

[@nightbreed9305]

Jordan Harvey Cool. Also, if you ever read The Dark Tower I would suggest reading or listening to a recording of Robert Browning's Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came. It is my favorite poem ever and it was the poem that Stephen King retold in book form. It's only about 12 minutes long and is absolutely incredible. It was written in 1852 so expect a lot of Old or older English.

[@nightbreed9305]

Steph C I would suggest Stephen King's The Stand. Randall Flagg is his most prolific villain and appears here for the first time. He is brilliant but also very powerful. He is my favorite antagonist in literature and is the standard I hold for good villains. Also The Stand will make you paranoid to anyone with a cold.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Will definitely check that out!!

[@aishachaudhry4728]

*cough* basically every MALE in S.J Mass' books *cough*

[@alicewonderland14]

letshopeforthebest Dorian?

[@keirastorm6563]

The second pet peeve reminds me of that Wattpad fanfiction turned movie After. 🤣🤣

[@LittleMissLounge]

To be fair, TFIOS is told from Hazel's point of view. Of course she's going to idealize Augustus. She's very insightful for her age, but she's still a sixteen year old girl. She probably idealizes him even more because he makes her feel "normal." I do agree if TFIOS had been told in third person (especially third person omniscient) it would have been much, much more annoying. However, I certainly agree that being disabled/ill isn't a character flaw.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

LittleMissLounge Sure, that’s a fair point, but I think mine still stands. It’s kind of a damaging trope.

[@vikillustrations]

beside all tropes you mentioned, I find irritating these: a millionaire who is willing to buy his love interest everything a man involved in mafia- this might be done well, but most of the time author doesn´t know anything about mafia.

[@junjunjamore7735]

Are you talking about published authors? Because these seem like Wattpad things.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

TRUE. Especially the millionaire boyfriend.

[@vikillustrations]

Yes, they are common on wattpad, but I´m talking in general about things that make me want to scream every time I see them.

[@callianr6980]

Jordan Harvey .... But 50 Shades of Grey is published. Or perhaps I'm showing my lack of knowledge for a series I've never read.

[@haggisa]

Child Of The Smokeless Fire There are literally hundreds of published novels and series with both of those tropes. They’ve been done to exhaustion. The millionaire/billionaire is usually charismatic, suave, but also brooding and often times has a tragic back story. Or is a secret paranormal creature. And the mafia “prince” or enforcer is usually controlling, authocratic, violent, brooding macho douchenozzle. With a tragic back story! He’s also frequently a kidnapper and a sexual assaulter. Let me contain my swoon. Ugh.

[@blueai5022]

Drop everything, people--there's another video of Jordan ranting about bad character tropes! All these are so real, though. How do these characters still exist?!

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Blue Ai Hahah, thanks! But yeah, it’s ridiculous. They shouldn’t.

[@Simmi_]

Seriously, it's like every wattpad book just has a 'bad boy neighbour'. I am so done! And it annoys me SOOO much when the girl aways ends up choosing him over a very, very sweet and nice 'best friend' kind of guy. I mean why choose a stalkerish jerk who treats you like garbage over a very caring and sweet guy who actaully values you? Edit: I don't really think Everything, Everything had that. I mean there was definitely a dramatic 'he changed my life' but it wasn't the bad boy scenario.

[@onettaviator5396]

Even us fourteen-year-olds find these guys gross now, LMAO.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Good!!

[@katelynbritton1389]

Thanks so much for bring up that being disabled is not a flaw! I have muscular dystrophy and am in a wheelchair, but i definitely wouldn't consider that a flaw, its just who i am. It's crazy how the general public automatically counts that as a strike against me, and its even harder when i see it happening in a book i pick up. I'm definitely not perfect lol but i don't need to be, and thats perfectly fine by me

[@alexandriaceballos1938]

To be honest, I find the Overprotective guy flat out annoying, which causes major eye roll in my book. And I agree, it’s very unhealthy. If I were in a relationship, I want to have some boundaries because we have interests outside the bubble, along with the fact that they can’t be together 24/7.

[@KatharineFrancis]

When you mentioned Wattpad I couldn't stop laughing! I wrote my book Breaking Eden on wattpad as a response to all those bad boy and millionaire kiddnaping books.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Katharine Francis Not everything on Wattpad is bad, but man, cliches run rampant there.

[@KatharineFrancis]

Oh yeah I've found a lot of good books on there. But some of the ones in the million read count have me stumped. Some of those are riddled with cliche after cliche. Then there are some that don't have nearly enough reads. I was lucky enough to get one of my stories featured in Oct. 2017. Do you have any of your work posted on there?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

I did! I have a secret account that I post stuff on if I feel creatively stumped or if I'm looking for criticism.

[@KatharineFrancis]

If you ever want another pair of eyes to help out I critique stuff for people over there. My account if K_E_Francis if you're interested. :)

[@johannageisel5390]

Is there a list of secretely good books somewhere? I don't have enough time to read through heaps of trash to find a rare pearl, so I'd be happy for recommendations by people who have similar tastes as me.

[@fourthree6579]

I once read a book about a couple that was married but it was an arranged marriage and it was full of miscommunication and the protagonist and the husband loved each other but he cannonically raped her multiple times and it was completely brushed off. It was "justified" because of his childhood and since it was an online book I could see other readers' comments and they all sympathized with him. I never finished it because I was so disgusted and frustrated with everyone involved. Also the husband never faced any reprocussions.

[@sorcerersapprentice]

Fun Fact: I got an ad for 13 Reasons Why season 2 for this video. ...not sure what to think of that.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Aqua Burst07 haha

[@PeachyBeins]

God Empress Jordan has graced us once agin. 😁

[@JordanHarveybooks]

[@ThexCSmOuse]

someone's new dyed hair's looking good

[@Phiahcm]

I can find all these tropes on Wattpad in under 3 minutes.

[@KatharineFrancis]

I think it's only when we grow up and aren't 14 year olds anymore that we truly see just how toxic and abusive those love interests really all.

[@nocturnus009]

Well worth the wait. It's important, not only for diversified perspective on relationships but for views on males in general. As someone that is on the extreme opposite of archetype of a swimmer I usually have people surprised at how I perform in meets (swimming the mile, 500m, 400IM, & 200m Butterfly) they are usually shocked when they discover I coach & teach adults to swim. Resisting exposure to diverse people means this is something I'll always deal with. As the Vulcans say: Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations (IDIC)

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Yeah, I definitely think we need to see more diversity in how men are portrayed! I think it's especially true in coming of age stories too.

[@rowanemie572]

A good character that has a disability and other character flaws that's still a great character, Isaac Newton (Newt) from The Maze Runner Trilogy

[@JordanHarveybooks]

True!!

[@rowanemie572]

Jordan Harvey another good one is Callum Hunt from the Magisterium books

[@TheAceSpace]

One reason the hunger games trilogy are my favourite books (aside from the Harry Potter series) is because of Peeta. He is such a gem.

[@Garrison_the_Barbarian]

As a self-published author, I can’t help but think some of my own writing is guilty of a few of these pet peeves. It happens every time I watch a trope-themed video from a Book Tuber. In the end, I’m grateful I watched the videos because learning is a never-ending quest for even the most successful authors. You’ve given me a lot to think about not only for my already published books, but also for the many first drafts I have on my computer waiting to be edited down to the last word. Thank you so much for posting this, Jordan!

[@jennyberrou2726]

I’m late to this video but I found you in my recommended feed, AND I TOTALLY ROCKED WITH THIS VIDEO YOU CAUGHT ME BY THE FIRST TROPE UGH YES

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Haha thanks! I know, it's the worst!!

[@LutherJKanso]

Your video is the perfect example as to why I HATE Four, in every plausible criteria. What's outstanding is that throughout each book in the trilogy, he falls beneath a variant trope; in Divergent, he was this hot, muscular, toxically masculine dude who swept Tris off her feet and initially treated her derogatorily, only to redeem himself ultimately because A) he merely had no intention upon conveying his emotions because, look at me, I'm a macho embodiment of Ares, and B) his problematic past with his father hindrances his behavior with other people. THEN, here comes the worst, we have Insurgent, where he was UNSPEAKABLY "OVERPROTECTIVE" and just suffocated Tris with his need to have a "keen eye upon her" because she's irresponsible and cannot function without his orders or outside of his vicinity. And in Allegiant, did we all forget when he got SO MAD at Tris because he found out he was not Divergent? And she tried to console him by telling him that's not all that he is but he wouldn't have it because his masculinity does not allow him to be vulnerable, only infuriated and moody. Sorry for the long comment, but damn that guy gets on my nerves 😅

[@starlitbri]

I agree with you on almost everything in this video (I didn't have a crush on Augustus Waters, not my type). I write on Wattpad, and the number of stories about "bad boys" is overwhelming, and a lot of them have bad boy in the title. I literally made a small rant on Wattpad about how abusive assholes are getting romanticized and normalize and everything because they're labeled as bad boys and have tragic backstories. Just because you and your dad don't talk doesn't excuse your shitty behavior! I did that in one of earliest books, and I want to smack myself for it. Also, Friendzone Dude who's only your friend because he wants to f*ck you needs to die (in fiction and reality). Can you do more trope talks about characters? They're fun and a great way to start discussions :) love your videos, Jordan

[@JordanHarveybooks]

For sure! And omg YES, friendzone dude is the WORST.

[@SGRev1]

Gravity Falls, I think, executed the "friendzone dude" trope correctly. The show isn't afraid to call Dipper out on his advances to Wendy, such as how he deliberately separated her and her boyfriend for his own ends. (Even though Robbie was kind of a jerk to begin with, that still didn't give Dipper any justification to intervene, at all). Secondly, in the end Dipper finally accepts that he and Wendy just won't work out in a romantic relationship, but that doesn't mean the two can't still be friends.

[@maliaferry8212]

Yes we all remember Twlight, thank you for rediscribing the book

[@alinastarkov]

kinda random but you look so pretty in this video!!! your skin is glowing haha

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks! I think it's the lighting!

[@louisemiller7584]

I hate this abusive „bad boy“trope... I didn’t finish the shatter me series because of it

[@inkypunk]

Willow Mellet And they say not to judge a book by it's cover, heh! I didn't like what the title was implying for a romance so I skipped it

[@KevenPirritano]

Childhood friends fall for each other after they get older, but not before one of them will move away & move back. 1) The person with the crush (usally a guy) is ugly or over weight. 2) Thier friend ( usally Thier crush) is gorgeous & sometimes popular. 3) Guy loses weight or gets better looking over the years. So on & so on.

[@micaelaelena5579]

.

[@jge8144]

I don't hate this trope, but I've noticed in the 3 books I've read, need to finish reading, or still reading, that one of the love interests of the female character is a guy, Prince or son of a leader, whose dad is a tyrant. I saw this in Red Queen series and The Birthmarked trilogy. I don't c it as a bad trope but it doesn't hurt to be a bit original😁

[@TheProcrastinatorFiles]

"Delicious to read" !! 😂 love it. Hey Jordan!! You good? Hope traveling has been fun and thanks for the video 🤓 until the next one.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

The Procrastinator Files I’m great! Just busy :) thanks for asking!!

[@cindyluyanli]

A good summary of this video would be the Phantom of the opera. A perfectionist genius who obsessively protects the innocent girl and has a messed up face. Has a tragic backstory, also lives in a basement (neighbour-ish) and plays the “bad boy”(aka hangs a stage crew...). Oh! And did I mention he’s trying to get laid... That sums up about every hated character trope other than the last one, and yet still he’s probably the most beloved character in the show? So maybe the best way to avoid hated character tropes is to do all of them at once? Also technically he’s not a love interest, but a damaged villain, so yay?

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Cindy Li That’s the thing, of course any and all of these can be done well! These are just things that bother me in general. Great point though! :)

[@nat6098]

The overprotective boyfriend trope is very troubling as that is normalizing abuse. The most common way an abuser hurts their partner is by making them feel like they are less intelligent than the abuser and that the abuse always knows what's best for them. I see that trope all of the time and it consistently makes me want to throw books across the room. If you really want to start getting mad about the relationships in most YAs then read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. It's all about abuse that explains the abuser's mindset and how that affects their actions and how that translates into damage to their partners. I read it a while ago and now I notice unhealthy relationship tropes even more.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Huh, I'll have to check it out!

[@katiek2615]

Oh my gosh yes!!!! You helped me find the right words to explain why I hate these tropes! Love you Jordan!

[@jenniferkrigbaum2677]

Girl, that lighting though...so pretty! LOL as soon as you mentioned the nerd wanting to get laid, I immediately thought of Sixteen Candles! Great video as always Jordan :)

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thanks so much Jennifer

[@tuskinekinase]

I know right! It's so fresh

[@platy9586]

Hot guys who are constantly being described as golden.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

THIS.

[@timetravelingshark8811]

*cough* jacefromshadowhunters *cough cough*

[@platy9586]

Exactly who I had in mind. Cassandra Clare should write a book about "A thousand different ways to say the word Gold".

[@wannabuysomeknives6453]

"Nerdy guy who's only goal in life is to get laid" *Cough cough* Be More Chill *awkward hacking cough*

[@ariadnekane921]

Wowww your hair looks really cute! Also, I 100% agree with everything you’ve said.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Thank you!! Just got it cut and coloured and I am trying to get used to how short it is.

[@LillyMelodies]

I just had a haircut too - my hairdresser took about 2/3rds of the length, and it felt sooo weird at first! I've really been enjoying it though - I hope you will enjoy your haircut too, if you aren't already :)

[@JordanHarveybooks]

LillyMelodies I like it! It’s just a little weird.

[@ariadnekane921]

Jordan Harvey I actually got my hair cut to my chin last year and as scary as it to cut your hair shorter it’s so worth it - even if it’s just a few inches! You’ll feel great about it in a few days, and if not just grow it out :)

[@JT_From_Outer_Space]

Oh yeah.... I remember back in 5th grade when I was such a shitty writer but I thought I was good lol. I basically always used the same Kind of character. Of Course I gave him different names in every Story, so it was Johnny, then Henry, Nick, Charlie... And ,oh, how could I forget good ol' Sam. I used that caracter so often that he became a Trope on his own. He was that dark haired, tall guy wearing black clothes, being edgy as fck. Of Course he also had pale Skin and icey blue eyes. Your casual edgelord. He was so super cool and mysterious... Rough on the outside but deep on the inside. He was funny and sarcastic, he was deep, he was SO different from the rest *jeez, he was super intelligent, he had aaaaabs (Probably what my thirsty middle School self thought while writing), he was popular, he was rebellious, he had all the girls... And yes, he had no flaws at all. The only ''flaw'' was his infamous tragic Story. Sometimes his father was abusive, sometimes he had cancer, sometimes he was accused of a crime he didn't commit, sometimes a sibling died....Of course I know now that These Kind of Things are no flaws at all and I kinda used them to make him even more edgy and ''cool'', which is pretty toxic. So yeah, Sam-Jenricklie (That's what I call him since it's all his most popular character names combined) was that completely perfect, gorgeous, edgy emo guy. And I am SO ashamed. Nowadays I put so much effort into developing my characters properly and they're very good and realistic imo. Please People, never include that Sam-Jenricklie in your stories and be creative. (Sorry if my English isn't perfect, I'm from Germany)

[@futurestoryteller]

Are you Joss Whedon? 😜

[@kaymaya8338]

I hate the trope where they make the guy a ‘punk’ or ‘bad boy’ but he’s just a dick. Basically just a bad guy. AND NO ONE ACKNOWLEDGES IT. If you knew a guy like this irl, you would hate him

[@UmbraKrameri]

Oh yes, another Trope Talk. I found your channel through these videos and it is still my favorite topic from you. :) Might I add that the lighting is very good in this video? (It's probably just natural light, but still.) For me, my major pet peeve would probably be the overprotective/aggressive boyfriend trope, which is quite common, and, if romanticised is especially nauseating for me. I also find the 'nerd desperately wants to get laid' trope pretty annoying. This whole 'men are nymphomaniac' thing bothers me a bit, because I mainly think it's an oversimplification.

[@RKGold]

Yes TROPE TALKS!

[@maca673]

You really hit the nail on the head with these ones! And it’s not just in western young adult fiction as well that these kinds of characters appear in. Shoujo manga is chock to the brim with them, ESPECIALLY the bad boy trope to the point of it being extremely problematic. Not saying that they’re all filled with questionable characters, but it’s just as puzzling (and frustrating) for these kinds of characters to verbally or otherwise emotionally abuse other characters, female and male alike and for everyone to just ignore and forgive.

[@aissa2572]

I feel like in order to make the tropes more bearable, writers need to add some contradictions. Jace (The Mortal Instruments) could've still had that whole "sexy-bad boy-pompous-prick" trope if his arrogance was more expressed as a playful joke. Rowan and Chaol (Throne of Glass) could've worked the whole macho manliness if their passions and vulnerabilities and compassions were more obvious. Bella (Twilight) could've rocked the "new girl" trope if she maybe weren't so plain and/or if she had some other importance to the vampire world other than being Edward's mate. I feel like it's not necessary the tropes that are bad; it's the way writers regurgitate and follow the tropes as if they were blueprints. Be creative. There's nothing better than expecting a typical trope and getting a wild, unique spin on it

[@Nyndacricy]

I'm doing adult sci-fi. But, I think this example applies. There is a man who my main character is in love with who is physically adept. This is described, at one point, when she is recounting how they met. It's important to tell the reader what the character's reasons are for being attracted to someone. You also have to trust that this will sink in without having to go into an inch by inch description. When you put it into the character's own words, you can reduce this to four or five sentences. Then, you can carry on building the story surrounding that relationship. Who is this person, beyond their physique? Love and lust overlap. Sexual attraction is usually the first thing occur. So, it has to be justified in some way. Just don't slip into lit-erotica, unless it's what you are selling.

[@thefangirl4380]

A lot of what your describing is from a book called, “ You” where the guy is a serial killer. Which kind of gives you perspective that having an obsessive boyfriend is not healthy nor what anyone should look for in a relationship.

[@Excalibur-je5pk]

Now that I think about it, kratos from the new god of war is a perfect example of that last trope done extremely well.

[@justanawkwardnerd]

I started this, went to your YA Women video when you mentioned you made that first and came back - and realized that you're wearing the same shirt. Something was drivin me nuts when you started the video but I figured it out thankfully. I mean no harm or anything - I just find it kinda funny.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

Funny! I made that over a year ago.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

Stalker-y tendencies tend to be romanticized in fiction a lot. Being a stalker is not okay... is bad... don't do it.

[@anjetto1]

The over protective bf is basically the only people I run into in real life. Female friends saying I can't be left alone in a room with another man, or my bf won't let me go. I usually just laugh in their faces and walk away

[@JordanHarveybooks]

anjetto1 It’s scary! And young girls are being taught by these stories that that’s okay, that it’s romantic.

[@anjetto1]

Jordan Harvey yes true. Society has a big weight on how people are raised but there's an element of personal responsibility as well. I'd find it funnier if I didn't work at a woman's shelter

[@jespernielsen7646]

This is a great video, Been watching it a couple of times. And tonight I just got an idea for one of my characters.

[@elastrorey5722]

The Bad Boy With Sad Past is literally Prince Cardan from The Cruel Prince, and yet, everyone seems to love this piece of shit. He's literally the epitome of your worst YA trope, but people call him "NeW ProbLemAtic FAvE".

[@dragonridertv1632]

the second one is every wattpad romance books

[@tinyrocks7549]

I agree 100%. I think writers are trying to create “conflict” in their story, but are confused about how to go about it: the understanding of conflict and tension. Also, it’s easy to create a bad guy who is messing with a good girl - the trick is to create two complex characters who are challenging each other in real and relatable ways.

[@JordanHarveybooks]

YES! Thank you.

[@AntiqueTanuki]

The over-protective boyfriend trope is literally a textbook description of an abuser. It's disgusting and I'm sick of the media romanticizing these type of people because it makes people think such abusive behavior is normal and even desirable to have in a partner.

[@wannabuysomeknives6453]

Basically the exact description of Edward Cullen. Twilight can go fuck itself

[@ragingdevi]

I feel that face you made after you said "...she sees his abs." It was perfect.

[@julyol119]

Some really good points you made there! Hardcore eye rolling stuff xD

[@dreamwishergirl]

Just the first description alone you described Twilight, 50 shades, Hush, Hush, Beautiful Disaster, ACOTAR... like it’s all the same. And my teen self never realized it (I read ACOTAR this year and did) and it’s sad because teen girls read this stuff & think this is how relationships should be and often that’s how abusive relationships start not realizing a guy that obsessed with you isn’t cute at all