Joseph Smith’s Puppet - The Rise & Fall of John C. Bennett - Pt 1 | LDS Discussions 49 | Ep. 1848

[@cynthiaejiogu8442]

I know this might sound crazy but I sleep to you guys every night. The playlist has so much stuff. I’ve listened to it all but I listen to you and absorb all your knowledge while I’m asleep too and I’m not even Mormon or haven’t been but I really love the whole playlist

[@katphyre]

I do this too. How funny. I was thinking I was weird for doing that. I like to set a 90 minute timer on my phone and then drift off to the conversation here. I only hear about half an hour of it, but I'll just start it where I nodded off the next night.

[@Plant12day]

Same!

[@Liz-hr6hf]

Me too!!

[@cslade1212]

Me too!

[@hannalizzy110]

You’re not alone! I do too 😂

[@Sugarcookieloves]

I know it's a good day when a new LDS discussions video is released!! This is my favorite series on this channel.

[@anoriginalcreationx]

Couldn't catch the livestream, but listening now.. and LDS discussions were PARAMOUNT in my de-conversion progress this year.

[@mh-db1ml]

mine too!

[@cheryltaylor5265]

Mine too!!!

[@jamestrek2570]

Julia is perfect for LDS Discussions. Thank you for having her on. Her YT shorts are awesome. She is def an LDS history bug 🐛

[@anoriginalcreationx]

I took nearly every religion class offered at BYU-Idaho (recently) and first learned the name John C. Bennett when researching a completely different topic and stumbled across a newspaper article from the early years of the church...

[@justkiddin84]

That is revealing for sure.

[@ngatihine6072]

Great discussion, guys. Welcome, Julia. Great sources were provided. Well done.

[@makeitgoleft]

Julia was so great and knowledgeable. I want to hear her voice more with you all.

[@medeekdesign]

Sometimes I fall asleep listening to you guys. Awesome channel.

[@katphyre]

Oh man, so glad to see you guys back. I thought your series was done and I was SO bummed out. Thanks John for keeping us in touch with other hosts and their projects. Your page is kind of a one stop shop for the best of post Mormon vloggers. Hi Julia, I've seen a little of your stuff on your channel. Looking forward to more. Happy New Year!

[@mrgrnjns1111]

I too have been a member my entire life I'm 52. And have spent a lot of time in nauvoo I only live a couple hours away from nauvoo and never heard of Bennett as well... I totally love these episodes. You guys have brought forth a lot of subjects that concerned me as well. I just asked my mother and she as well has never heard that name... I've been struggling with a lot of these things the church has hidden and flat out lied about to us members. I always wanted ndered what was wrong with us growing up in Illinois being a Mormon kid was hard. Not being allowed to go to people's houses because we were Mormon. Not because my parents didn't allow it but other kids parents didn't want us to friends with their children. I really pray for the kids in the church today they don't go through what my generation did. Bless you guys. Praise Jesus 🙏

[@kamalkaze]

In the defense of those Europeans who believed tomatoes were poisonous- they knew it was from the Nightshade family and were playing it safe because of their awareness of deadly nightshade. I’m sure their racial/cultural biases influenced their beliefs as well, but there was a fairly decent reason to be worried as well.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

Often people with autoimmune disease can't eat nightshades for a time or at all.

[@ginafrancis4950]

Another interesting and informative episode! Many thanks to a fantastic crew! I love LDS discussions!

[@Songsofourown23]

This was so interesting Never in my TBM years have I heard of John C. Bennet. So interesting!

[@function0077]

Instead of the Walmart example. One could compare the John C. Bennett / Joseph Smith Jr. relationship to the allegations of misbehavior by Sean Reyes (AG of Utah) & Tim Ballard.

[@mh-db1ml]

I seriously thought the same thing!

[@AnabolicUnitarian]

Just saw this, but a minor note on the tomato: the reason people thought tomatoes were poisonous isn’t really that they were a food cultivated or eaten by indigenous American peoples (so were corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, cacao, peanuts, cashews, pecans, blueberries, blackberries, cranberries, strawberries-among other berries or species of these that became the predominantly cultivated varieties-, pumpkin, squash, bell peppers, chilis, several types of beans like pinto, kidney, etc., vanilla, maple syrup, avocados, pineapples, and so on), but because tomatoes’ acidity often released the lead in dishware that led to lead poisoning in some people, stirring up a then-commonly held misconception that this poisoning was a result of eating tomatoes themselves.

[@too_tired_for_this]

I love the vibe of this team!

[@function0077]

Next time I visit Nauvoo I am going to ask the tour guide where the 1st presidency's brothel was located.

[@justkiddin84]

Please film and share the response!😂

[@thinkpinkdays]

I wonder if we can get Lin-Manuel Miranda to write a musical about “Right Hand Man” Bennett.

[@InternationalMysteries360]

Wow, slow down Julia. I want to say that Mormon Stories, Hidden True Crime, and Meidas Touch should receive Emmys for their work. How do we get. KZbin Emmys type award started? I think that would reward the superior like you all, and distinguish the channels

[@Hallahanify]

They've been doing KZbin award shows for a long time. I think the first "Streamy" award show was like 15 years ago in 2008 or 2009.

[@perrykim5]

Looking forward to the other episodes, thanks !

[@emobabyboy]

I am a deeply religious person. If you could compare my sect of religion it would probably be closest to Evangelicalism. I watch you guys because it weirdly enough increases my faith. It reminds me that I am incredibly lucky to believe in a God who does not punish during life and who is loving and forgiving. Thank you guys for making me feel more thankful for the life I've been given.

[@Mrfixit434]

Apologetics is akin to playing poker. It’s all about how many outs you have left to play, and bluffing on the unknown variables. As apologies fall, there are a limited number of places for apologists to shelter their beliefs.

[@angelikabehrend417]

Also: Joseph was a bad guy, doing bad things! Joseph worked to keep the power in the family. "Blood is thicker than water."

[@justkiddin84]

And the blood is really thick in the main families.

[@dreibel]

I’m struck by how much John C. Bennett resembles British comedian Rowan Atkinson (who played Edmund Blackadder). Atkinson would’ve killed it as Bennett if a Mormon history biopic was made a few decades back. I still can’t think of Bennett without imagining him having a Baldrick following him around! 😂

[@HannahMitchell-Art]

😂😂😂

[@tawnyachristensen7310]

Great team! So happy to see another LDS Discussion episode!

[@wendymerrillperry9699]

Yes! I’ve been binging on past episodes. This is so cool! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@bernitamckinney7049]

me too. I am overwhelmed by how behind I feel! LOL But I'm loving it.

[@swaneespeedramsey6080]

Hey all, so excited about this episode and special thanks to Gene J for letting me know it was on.

[@moanahopkins713]

I was a seminary teacher for 3 years, 1996-1999, I taught my students about John C. Bennett. He was detailed about the Church History teacher's and student manuals. There definitely was more than a mention of John C. Bennett. He tried to orchestrate the daytime murder of Joseph Smith while the militia was showing their colors. Joseph was prompted to turn his horse elsewhere, thus saving his life. John C. Bennett was the mastermind to overthrow the Nauvoo Bank, claiming the bank notes weren't good. He spread rumors of misdeeds, where there were no dishonesty on the part of Joseph Smith or his family. John Bennett worked overtime to to discredit Joseph Smith. This was in the manual in the mid-90's. I hope there hasn't been any deletion of Bennett's history since, of Bennett's duplicitious, greed, and deception. He genuinely was NOT a decent person, very much like our many corrupt contemporary public officials.

[@Hallahanify]

Right... everything the church taught in seminary was totally accurate 😅

[@tomsilver6212]

Sounds like a great song "I'm Trying to be Like Nemo" Happy in evert way

[@hopscotchlemonade]

I love these episodes. I super duper love them. But men, let Julia speak, too. This was her work. Make sure she has some space to think and talk.

[@mormonstories]

We’ll work on this

[@PARebecca]

This was a wild episode, I am looking forward to Part 2 and 3 of the John C. Bennett discussion. Great panel giving thought provoking analysis..many thanks.

[@denalinde]

I took a Genetics 101 class back in the 80s. The teacher was a recently born-again Christian. He taught the class the same way, “If it had happened this way, but we know it didn’t, then it would have been like such & such.” I got really good at figuring out his angles & writing test answers to match his biases. 😺

[@Hallahanify]

Gross, people like that should lose their job.

[@suedemers8631]

Man, Nauvoo was a happening place!

[@sgee-vc1hz]

First Presidency Brothel or Celestial Kingdom Brothel --- which one is better???

[@justkiddin84]

Celestial kingdom, definitely!

[@anjelikag]

I live for LDS discussions. I love the interviews with members/exmos. Hearing about their experiences and how they found history discrepancies in real time is so validating. I love LDS discussions because it’s just the history discrepancies, straight to the point and not antagonistic. Love all the work you guys do, especially Mike! In person interviews bring you the content. Mike has to dig for this information.

[@chrissjones1607]

I personally appreciate Nemo.

[@KelbyThwaits]

Great seeing Julia here. Her work is awesome!!

[@AnUnlikelyArkie]

I had not even heard about John C. Bennett until after I resigned 8/23. I am really enjoying the LDS Discussions series!

[@TheSaintelias]

This is a power squad. Love all your content.

[@iamjustsaying1]

I follow Julia already and am so pleased to have her knowledge added to this tremendous series!

[@jeff-fah-fah]

[17:01] As an ex "Campbellite" with a keen interest in the exmo experience, I would LOVE to hear more about the connection/overlap/conflict between Alexander Campbell and Joseph Smith and their respective restoration movements. Please explore this! By the way, in case you are not aware, members of the churches that originated with Campbell's movement consider "Campbellite" a pejorative.

[@rhonecherrington7778]

Not only had they formed their own city equipped with its own army while living their own wildly different rules like marrying multiple women, etc… but they were going around stating that the land Missouri farmers owned would one day be theirs, which the second coming of Christ they believed would be soon, let alone the setting up of Zion beforehand… Anyway, point is as you said I think the motivation behind his killing was more than just polygamy. Also, The University of Utah was actually originally founded by the church before BYU was, it later was turned over to the state…

[@jenniferfigueira3293]

When I was at Ricks College in the 90's my biology professor also gave us quotes by prophets and apostles against evolution and stating that dinosaurs never lived on earth. Then we learned biology like the rest of the world. I raised my hand and asked, " so we are going to learn things the church said are not true?" She answered that it was not clear if they were speaking as The Prophet or if it is just their opinion as a man. Then I asked if the church believes in evolution. She said I should look into that for myself. She seemed embarrassed by it.

[@stevehowes9598]

GOD Bless you John ! I’ve been down the rabbit hole with you regarding all the Crazy things we are ALL following. Usually I like listening to the cute ladies on KZbin because… honestly, they are cuter than you and me. But… seriously Your precise and calculated analysis is not just CORRECT !… It’s comforting. Thank you for all your hard work. It doesn’t go unnoticed. There are 10’s of thousands of people like me…. Trying to figure this S*it out … and You have been very helpful to me. GOD Bless you 🙏 P. S. Can somebody make a video connecting Ruby/ Jody to the whole Netflix “Sins of my Mother” series. I mean REALLY ….Connect … the … dots

[@justkiddin84]

Hidden True Crime and diffiCULT research are doing that-each in their own way. And those dots make a spider’s web.

[@debbiedonovan8362]

Amazing as always!

[@seanjohnson9229]

New to watching/listening. I would love to hear y’all do some history on the succession after Joseph Smith’s death. Big part that started me on questioning my faith and researching on my own, plus “Strangite Mormons”… great story.

[@Maryfs1]

1:22:48 We should create a true mormon history tour and make the brothel one of the stops!

[@mh-db1ml]

😂 love it!

[@tawneenielsen4080]

Yay!! You are back

[@tyleranderson4921]

Small critique of Mike and Nemo interjecting on Julia a lot; not just small additions or clarifications, but sometimes felt like they really wanted to show off their knowledge too. Please let her give her presentation fellas.

[@carolyearsley]

Unfortunately, it is rather common for men to over shadow women in a public discussion. Start observing, like on news casts, for example. And of course it is obvious in Mormonism.

[@Sassy-qh5nh]

Julia did a great job! Thank you all for the learned analysis.

[@aubrey6538]

Thank you for this video so so validating. You guys are awesome. Keep up the great work.

[@Songsofourown23]

Also please when you do the Episode on What happened to the founders of Mormonism. Please help us learn about how the sects formed. If anyone was like me in their experiences we were told a variety of lies about the other sects. For example In was told there were two churches the LDS Church ours and the RLDs the Reformed version. Later when Warren Jeff's was arrested I learned about them. Then I saw Escaping Polygamy Sister Wives and started counting the sects.... How did it all split? What were the issues ? How many sects are there?

[@justkiddin84]

There have been a bunch, mostly small, a few families. And ironically, it’s easy to find them via the true-crime genre. So many murders, frauds, trafficking, etc.

[@Songsofourown23]

@@justkiddin84 The criminals are one group but literally we were lied to about the basic groups, like the Apolistic United Brethren, The Kingston Clan. FLDs sects, The Order Allred Group, etc. they for the most part are not criminals but different sects.

[@jamestrek2570]

Last I heard there was like 70+ groups today that are splintered somehow from Joe smith

[@tyleri.4219]

The argument of “product of the times” or “everyone else was doing it” just cements churches as the product of human psychology rather than divine instruction, and it sure doesn’t work when bad or strange things are explained with “God’s ways are not our ways”. Usually “God’s ways” are truly the ways of dead or nearly dead oppressive powerful men. I wish I knew earlier that if a church is indistinguishable from a harmful cult or sham with no way to prove one way or the other, then it shouldn’t be assumed to be a a harmless actor-in fact, the simpler naturalistic explanation is probably the better one to err on the side of

[@function0077]

To quote Julia at the end of the episode, "John C. Bennett blows up in Joseph's face." Is this a reference to future discussions of their alleged homosexuality? /s

[@futureZbright]

🤣

[@justkiddin84]

Someone had to do it-better you than me!😂😂😂

[@byonnoyb]

Great work, as usual, to all. Just one concern - will you please stop referring to Joseph Smith as a martyr. He was not, and it's extremely offensive to parallel his death with the actual meaning behind martyrdom. Thank you, kindly.

[@jeaniewilliams3274]

Every student at B.Y.High School's required seminary classes in the 1960's had at least heard of Bennett. He was presented as a scoundrel.

[@clydeLedford]

Under Joseph Smith, Nauvoo (formerly Commerce) was the 1st. Wild West open town. Criminals, counterfeiters, thieves (none Mormons as well as Mormons themselves) all flocked to Nauvoo because Joseph had a law passed that no law man (Federal, State or local) could arrest anyone without his permission. Joseph got first takes of any loot. For example, Colonel Davenport lived on an island on the Mississippi across from Nauvoo. Mormons did a home invasion on Colonel Davenport and killed him and his wife and stold his money and fled back to Nauvoo for protection. Joseph was raising an Army to keep the State & Feds out and to overthrow the USA Govt. :.

[@gracebe235]

@user-rd3cl7lg2f…….Woooow, interesting. Where can I find this info?

[@truthbebold4009]

Say whaaaat?! 😮

[@jerrimenard3092]

I want to know more.

[@truthbebold4009]

@@jerrimenard3092 If true, not even the prophet, seer and revelator could spin this one into a faith promoting story 😬

[@dianamoss159]

Do you have a source for this? I’d like to research more about that.

[@timrathbone7093]

Great pod cast great research to you all.

[@jenniferlane6720]

In 1975 I listened to 2 Mormon missionaries. It was setup by my dentist I had when I was in college, he & his family were Mormon. I challenged the missionaries on numerous inconsistencies &, in my opinion, ridiculous beliefs. Even though I challenged them a lot, at the end of the lessons my dentist & the missionaries were shocked when I told them I would not be getting baptized in the LDS church, they had actually set up a baptismal date for me! Needless to say I was asked to find another dentist & I gladly did. I was raised Catholic & attended a college campus church where the Priest had been raised as a Mormon. He was so intelligent, open & caring. He shared his wonderful revelation when he found Jesus Christ, His sacrifice for us & His love & grace. Very powerful.

[@DeanneSanchez-q8u]

Great job guys ❤

[@gazelam1973]

I am shocked that so many people in the comments section (and members of this panel) claim they never new of, read about, or were taught about John C. Bennett as members growing up in the church. My experience was the opposite. And I wasn't even active in the church as a youth. Nor did I attend LDS Seminary. But when I did go to church during the year the church was studying D&C in Sunday School, our SS Instructor most definitely taught us the John C. Bennett story. As well as others in the Nauvoo period that rose to high office in the church, only only to later turn their backs on Joseph Smith. My point being , it wasn't "swept under the rug". Later , when I attended LDS Institute classes in college, I took a Church History class., and when we got to the Nauvoo period, again,....John C. Bennett was front and center in the discussions we had. Did none of you pay attention when you attended SS class or Institute. He's right there in the Institute Manuel on Church History.

[@TheSaintelias]

Go Aggies!!! I knew John had a light in his countenance.

[@markvonwisco7369]

Bryce Blankenagel has several in-depth episodes about John C. Bennett on his Naked Mormonism podcast.

[@jeaniewilliams3274]

September 21 the equinox. That day, for a patriarchal blessing by Hyrum Smith fits the whole world view.

[@flaxenware]

John, ask not, "what was Joseph Smith doing this whole time?" Ask, "who was he doing?"

[@justkiddin84]

Or how many.

[@jrbcnchz]

Julia talks in fast-forward 😂 stressing me out

[@justkiddin84]

You can slow it down.

[@quogue]

She’s obviously intelligent but irritating to listen to her delivery. In our family, when we try to slow it down so we can understand her it puts the pace of the other speakers in a cartoonish tone. We’re hoping she can slow down.

[@whitefluffydogs9278]

It seems to me that “sexual exploitation “ is a more accurate phrase than “sexual experimentation” as I don’t know how much power women had in these encounters.

[@shalenesmith6224]

Y'all should do an episode on Bill Hickman. He was my great great great grandfather. He was known as Brigham Young's destroying angel and he was later excommunicated. I've always wanted to know more about him and his story but it seems so clouded by church history

[@infomatters9942]

Nightfall at Nauvoo 1971 authored by Samuel Taylor a grandson of President John Taylor is an entertaining read. Pulled this from the bookcase of my BYU Bishop FIL in the 90’s. It confirmed my doubts and illuminated the all the fuckery.

[@Clintcellington]

I love lds discussions!!

[@sjenson6694]

They're Mormon discussions

[@BunnyWatson-k1w]

Bennett's name is never mentioned anymore in any church curriculum. The same with any talks by GAs. The sin police were not in full in full force. I think many of the rules of conduct by members was not regulated until decades later. Brigham Young was rumored to own a whiskey distillery and beer brewery in Salt Lake City. The Word of Wisdom was treated as more of a suggestion than requirement. You would not even get barred from the temple for drinking until the 1940s. It does not surprise me to hear about sexual immorality. If you read American history you will be familiar with the fact that brothels were everywhere in America. It was seen to have a social function whether the patrons were married or single. I have heard in the past that John Bennett was involved in a lot of shady practices including seducing underage women. These affairs had little to do with eternal marriage and more with fulfilling Bennett's depraved desires. I even think there was a Come Follow Him podcast where the guest professor talked about Bennett as a sexual deviant by 1840s standards.

[@lauraparis2023]

Hi people I missed you ❤

[@gxgx1190]

Interesting tie to masonry and the temple ceremony since the endowment was established in Nauvoo in 1942 and John c Bennett just was involved in masonry in 1941 and was Joseph’s second hand man. Doesn’t seem like a coincidence

[@lucillepryor808]

Julia needs to slow down when reading.

[@constancebarrett1398]

I love history all kinds of history.

[@futureZbright]

What relationship did Porter Rockwell have with Bennett?

[@MAJdrdtucker]

"I pick the best people"-- so many parallels to a current public figure facing many legal challenges. Charismatic in the eyes of followers, not so much by those who perceive a dishonest con man. Grandiose claims that don't measure up to scrutiny. Picks the best people and somehow doesn't own it when they turn on him.

[@thanksformutton1037]

1:31:54 if there’s no sin if there’s no accuser, why do you need to do baptisms for the dead? Under Mormonism, you can break gods laws if you know them, but aren’t accused. But if you were born at another time and another place and never heard of the Book of Mormon, well you’re dead and cast into darkness without a baptism for the dead.

[@Hallahanify]

Is there episodes that just cover the churchs history? Like the transition from kirkland to missouri to navouu to utah? Ive gone through the playlists and listened to alot of episodes but im still confused about how that all happened. I think big picture it would help to zoom out and go through the history of the church chrologically.

[@playnicechannel]

There are so many parallels between Smith/Bennett and the modern political situation. Those in the last administrations inner circle and were complicit in its history, are viewed with jaded eyes when they now come out and write a book about how horrible the former guy was. If you want to stand on the side of the angels, you can’t enjoy the dance with the devil. Humans hate many ethical and moral shortcomings for which hypocrisy is always chief among them. Happy New Year. Great Episode 🎉

[@hanover2577]

Great team!!!

[@TheSaintelias]

Nemo needs to kick out more context, from across the pond, if possible.

[@justkiddin84]

Well, the history so far is mostly in the US, to be fair

[@TheSaintelias]

@@justkiddin84 oh I just mean to make videos from England. Doesn’t have to be church history in England. 👍

[@harryfve5]

Julia!!!!😀

[@faatzfamily]

Julia rocks! Already a fan.

[@spookymicah3131]

I’m so greedy - when is the next episode?! This was great

[@drshanebaker]

I have a different take on how JCB rose to power. And yes, it is a Major blow to the idea that JS had any kind of discernment. I think the JS had a man crush on JCB. He was likely very self confident alpha male cool vibes type of player and I think JS fell for it. He gave JCB these positions because Bennet was a confidence man and he convinced Joseph that he was the man for the job. John mentioned GOT and I think that was a fair analysis. JS didn't play the game well. I think he gave away too much power before he even realized he had put his own position in jeopardy. The player got played. To make another movie reference to the Gibson/Foster movie "Maverick," "there is no more deeply moving religious experience... Than cheating on a cheater." JS and JCB were both confidence men and for awhile, Bennet played Joseph.

[@mormonstories]

Stay tuned for our next two episodes!!!

[@Omandagus]

Clarification: "Secretary of Nauvoo Masonic Lodge" not "Grand Secretary." Local lodges do not have Grand Secretaries; there's only one per Grand Lodge, which in the US, is per state. The "Grand Secretary" would be over the entire Grand Lodge of the state of Illinois.

[@benjamingardea4511]

True story: on my mission I was transferred to a ward with a fantastic EQ president who was a convert. One day he just stopped coming to church. In our efforts to reactivate him, he told us he was a Mason and only joined the church to get a closer look at it. I was blown away.

[@Felicityus]

Just stumbled on your channel. I am 5th grand daughter of Lorin Farr. I am seeing that Bennett and he were together in Nauvoo at least not sure what their association encompassed.

[@kerryholyoak5720]

I wonder if the blessing is one of those where Joseph Smith Sr. tells the member to write out his own blessing and the patriarch will sign it ?

[@takeaminute2144]

If I'm looking at the dates correctly, he already had the brothel up and running when he was appointed to the presidency of the church. And being chief judge and chief of police there was nobody to take it down even if there were objections.

[@bigtobacco1098]

First generation to leave after my family can trace their lineage back further than Nauvoo....

[@jenniferfigueira3293]

I really appreciate Julia's female point of view. I agree with the female ed in the church. You go to BYU to get your MRS.

[@skyjust828]

When Brigham Young was "president" "prophet"& "governor" of Utah he was almighty! It's shown in many history forums, infind the railroad coming into Utah he decided what cities would have & not have. He obviously prefered the northern part the southern part was where he kept 'extra wives &children' in Colorado City thats where my grandmother & her brother were raised until the age of 16. 44:05

[@xochitlkitty]

@1:10 John asks what Joseph Smith was doing given that Bennett basically held all of the important positions in town. Visiting his 23 wives perhaps?

[@austinskyy]

Thanks guys! That was awesome. Call me a nerd, but digging up stuff about the early Mormons. I have learned so much from you. It is like an itch that I can't help but scratch. That church was so traumatizing and messed me up pretty good. Especially when I came out....talk about the cold shoulder. Anyways, lol, I digress. By the way I am IN LOVE with Nemo.....such a cutie 🥰

[@lamrom1419]

Ketchup and ranch with fries is the best!

[@mouthymormonmetalhea]

Wow! sounds like JS really "leaned on" JCB when he got caught and just gave him the boot.

[@bodytrainer1crane730]

It's as if someone had the power to make someone the president of a country and the pope at the same time. A crossover between church and state.

[@justkiddin84]

Exactly what Tim Ballard thought he was going to be.

[@carolyearsley]

For centuries in Europe the pope often had more say than the emperor.

[@kerryholyoak5720]

Did Bennett receive any benefit for his resignation statement ?