The Gruesome History of the Comanche Tribe w/S.C. Gwynne | Joe Rogan

Taken from JRE #1397 w/S.C. Gwynne:
• Video

[@jykalmames829]

I am a Cheyenne. My ancestors were warriors. The idea that we were tree huggers and always peaceful is completely false and a little insulting.

[@Omega.Everywhere]

Noble Savage is a myth? Lol

[@epultimast]

Well, today’s identity politics just won’t allow the truth as it doesn’t fit this victim role the left so graciously put out there for the indian minorities. Fact of the matter is this: people have and always will be at war for power and resources.

[@testodude]

there were no trees to hug in Comancheria.

[@ketoboi2154]

Toori Baba *us government

[@jbearmcdougall1646]

I'm Scottish and my ancestors would war with anyone, and often raided neighbours for cattle,horses or the land..! Only our skin colour is different.. 🙂😐

[@taileywhakkur]

Imagine if there was an actual, legit JRE book club. They'd send you books from each guest that month. I'd buy it.

[@allonepaige2976]

Yes I'd definitely subscribe his guest are all so enlightened in their particular topics theres alot you can learn from them & I always want to read their books anyway.

[@WillJM81280]

Or you could just listen and buy of your own accord.

[@brianpeters7847]

@King Delevingne But he can look at the pictures

[@RosieWilliamOlivia]

This is a GREAT idea!!

[@joebrown6112]

@GazB85 dude chilllll.... Just look at them as recommendations from real interesting friends. Sheesh

[@drewtal1530]

I'm Native American (Navajo), Always intrigued from different stories, and stories from my peoples past are pretty intense like these. We're the biggest tribe in America, and our language is slowly dying out. To further my education In this society. My first language was English. And I have a hard time speaking and learning mine. Which is very complex and one of the most difficult. But hearing my people speak it is amazing. It's sad that we're growing, and one of few tribes that are full blooded natives still. My people are still dying from Alcohol, drugs, gangs, suicide, diabetes, jealousy, witchcraft. Our own type of War still goin on here in Arizona and New Mexico. And I'm sure other tribes in other states as well. We are all, Still At War here in America. I walk with God, and I Still Love Our Country.

[@stephenrodgers981]

thanks for sharing man. I hope you can contribute in bringing life back to your people's language. we've no native Gaeilge speakers here in Ireland anymore and it is spoken mainly by small groups of enthusiasts, our last monolingual Irish speaker Seán Ó hEinirí died in 1998.

[@bc2578]

Well, seems like "your people" have made a lot of bad choices. I hope "your people" get it all figured out, turn things around and become productive members of my people's society.

[@upyours6000]

@@bc2578 hey go f yourself. Show some respect. What happened to natives American is way worst then the Holocaust. You inconsiderate trailer trash p o s.

[@i-vlog1994]

Time to take some scalps and drive the white man back to the sea.

[@Nathaniel64]

I pray for your people. I hope like the forces of the dessert before they overcome. I know you are strong.

[@bobdixon4998]

My aunt was with the DOD as a public information officer. She researched Quannah Parkers life and comings and goings as well as Comanche sacred grounds. She found the proper place of his re- interment and final resting place. Then worked with the Comanche in negotiations with the army to relocate his remains to the new and more fitting resting place. She worked a ft sill Oklahoma from WW 2 until her retirement in the early 80's.

[@jimjetsonjr.8213]

Wow

[@richardjack4827]

Good ol Lawton, Oklahoma. I know it well.

[@barbaramcdermott2757]

😊

[@harharoldangelBushidokanMMA]

Did she know him Great grandson?

[@MrCooperdog222]

Back then the DOD was simply called the War Department lol

[@JStack]

Nothing solidifies Rogan being Oprah for dudes more than him putting his seal of approval on a book and watching it skyrocket lol

[@american_ape]

Rogan ain't giving anyone shit for christmas though

[@benevolent2077]

Tf? are you stupid he shows any of his friends books. He is a friend and helps his friends. I doubt he would read it. There are way more better books than that on lol. These book about indian are facts from white people LOL

[@DillHurley7]

@@benevolent2077 I didn't watch the clip but I KNOW he read the book because he's talked about it since. In passing. He loves the book. Like he mentions it constantly. He's obsessed with how brutal they were.

[@constantravens4800]

It's good!

[@Driftingsushi]

@@benevolent2077 "facts from white people." your comment is full of stupidity

[@RepJock88]

Of course the frontier was a “savage place.” I died of dysentery 27 times before I got to Oregon!

[@daviddewitt4107]

27 times and everything you owned was a weird shade of green and heavily pixelated.

[@eagancm]

But the hunting was fun!

[@JustTheFlecks]

Everything fell in the river when I tried to cross it.

[@biancajade728]

I loved that game

[@Revman210]

@Douglas Francis holy shit i forgot about that game, it was amazing

[@ernestososa2892]

I am a Comanche from my fathers side and never knew about the tribe until my mid 30’s. Hearing stories and understand the way they lived is just different. Proud I am of coming from a strong tribe. Now I know where my spirit comes from.

[@danielcox120]

Hell yeah, boy. We Dem Lords of the Southern Plains.

[@scintillam_dei]

Our spirits come from heaven, not earth. Our bodies come from the earth.

[@diaryofanaxeman539]

Ernesto, are you Penateka, Kwerharenah, Detsanayukah, Yamparika, Kotsoteka or Tanima ? My family was part of the Penateka until the mid 1850's, then they settle into the Kwerharenah until 1875.

[@copizz9558]

But society today thinks tribes lived in harmony until the white man set foot here . I won’t celebrate indigenous day. The slighter I read about make Europeans look humane

[@waltonsmith7210]

@Cocaine & pizza most indiginous were not as brutal as the Comanches

[@jsorbet]

I’m reading it right now. That’s why I googled Kiowa Indian history and here I am watching this video now. This book is amazingly written. It brings history into view through a realistic lense vs painting the Indian tribes as a bunch of hippies hanging out with Bambi, eating berries. Life was barbaric and this book tells the story factually and most interestingly weighted in a way that isn’t a lop-sided narrative. Well done sir. Well done indeed.

[@thomasc9036]

Tragically, there are no fairy tale Middle-Earth elven human history. The civilization develop through conquering. Examine Charlemagne the Great. Salient Franks were brutal people before adopting Christianity. Charlemagne spent most of his time conquering till there were no contenders, then turned to preserving Roman writings and cultures. American Indians never developed writing systems to preserve knowledge. They lived in a stone age world brutally raiding just like Vikings used to. Chinese dynasties were the same. They would kill or subjugate neighboring kingdoms till there were no contenders. After that, there were always one emperor who turned his wealth toward building his legacy through improving the civilization. Any culture who didn't have great emperors just died away or conquered.

[@TR4R]

Yeah, right. But let's not forget the brutality of Christian civilizations too. The Crusades, the Thirty Years War, the Witch Hunt and the Holly Inquisition. But perhaps a message of compassion helped to stop a little bit the human violence. It only took a couple of centuries and the proclamation of Human Rights to fully do so.

[@thelostcosmonaut5555]

That's the old "noble savage" trope. First thing they tell you in any intro Anthropology class is disregard that silly notion.

[@mrletternumber]

@@TR4R My friend, the record of history is clear. Islam was born in Arabia in the 7th century and the Mohammedans immediately began attacking the Middle East (Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc.) and capturing Christian cities (Antioch, Jerusalem). Then they crossed the Mediterranean and attacked Europe, conquering Sicily and, using Sicily as their base, began attacking coastal towns which entailed killing, robbing, raping, and taking slaves. During this time, over 1 million white Europeans were taken into the Muslim world as slaves. In 846 AD while attacking Rome, Muslims looted St. Peters and St. Paul's Basilicas, desecrating and pillaging the holiest places in all of Christendom. They also invaded and conquered Spain and were attempting to invade Europe from the SW but were stopped at the Battle of Tours. This all happened for 400 years before the first Crusade ever took place. The Crusades were a RESPONSE to Muslim aggression.

[@lecutter9382]

@@TR4R The point being is that most - not all - tribes and civilizations down through history were brutal fucking monsters. The aristocracy in particular. You didn't get to be royalty by being nice. It wasn't a popularity contest. It was a kill any motherfucker who doesn't fall into line and kiss your ass contest. The Mongols, the Romans, et al. were all savage fucking monsters. In Julius Caesar's campaigns in Germany and France it's estimated he killed around 2 million people - men, women, and children. And that was then! All done by hand! When Pompey finally defeated the Spartacus uprising they crucified 6000 slaves along the Apian Way! They estimate that Ghengis Khan killed somewhere between 20-40 million people - almost 10 percent of the world population at that time - both directly and indirectly (famine from his scorched earth campaigns, sieges, etc.) The Natives here were no different, some tribes were nicer than others, and some were utterly savage. Survival here was hard.

[@TenThumbsProductions]

After reading this book I came to the realization that no movie has ever done the frontier full justice.

[@thunderbird1921]

Yeah, the so-called "Indian Wars" are a lot more complex than the media portray them, and a number didn't involve the settlers. The Lakota and Pawnee had a bitter rivalry for YEARS, partially why the Pawnee warmly welcomed the Union Pacific Railroad for a while (in their eyes, the enemy of their enemy was thereby their friend).

[@dannybruce4142]

The Lonesome Dove Trilogy was based on actual stories told to Larry McMurty.

[@Bandera123]

Sorry to bother you, what's this book name? Thank you

[@TenThumbsProductions]

@@Bandera123 Empire of the Summer Moon is the book that I read. Next time I go to USA I am going to get a couple more books by him, I loved it.

[@CHSEnviroSci]

@@TenThumbsProductions May I also suggest 'The Heart of Everything That Is' by Bob Drury & Tom Clavin. EotSM was excellent but I'd rank this a little higher. Empire is about the south-central USA tribes while Heart is about the north-central tribes. Both are incredible reads.

[@chrisgodfrey7329]

THis was my Dad’s favorite book and before he passed he gave it to me to read. On what would have been my Dad’s birthday this pod cast was released. That was quite touching. It was as if Dad was reaching out in a subtle way.

[@PeteRockChronicles]

Wow 🤙🏼

[@drew38724]

he was bro 🙌🏼 not a coincidence

[@simpsons3200]

🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@drew38724]

@False Theory do you feel better now?

[@nicolaslacoste2368]

@@drew38724 did you?

[@wmsherrod1]

Great book. Stumbled across it about a year ago. Amazing culture and story and very well written.

[@StewartFletcher]

Literally one of the greatest, most impacting books I've ever read. Stunned me to my core what people were capable off, especially considering that this wasn't that long ago

[@michaellange6598]

Lone wolf...

[@Josh.1234]

People haven't changed, we are still capable of it. Certain cultures just stomped many of these practices out. Wait till those cultures are upended and let's see what morality replaces it.

[@lecutter9382]

That sort of shit still endures to this day, don't kid yourself. There are parts of Africa and Asia you should count your lucky fucking stars you were not born into. People are fucking savages. If we weren't the world wouldn't be going down the shitter today.

[@davemitchell6871]

Schools need to teach American history. All of it.

[@cool9142]

I’m in high school and tbh never heard a word about Indian tribes or American Indians or anything like that all we learn about is Ancient Greek and more recent American wars

[@sombody1596]

Rays Weldis this is because mostly for everyone that is the history of their culture. The US’s native population is very low compared to the one that originated in Europe. Your history is that of your ancestors not of your land primarily. Regardless I think they should add native history as well on the side

[@josesosa3337]

At least its there to look up for people who care.

[@mwhitelaw8569]

They used to teach american history But that was nearly 40 years ago

[@natashaadams7925]

Tell the actual truth... 😅 That wouldn’t be very American now would it.

[@josephpeeler5434]

"tortured...quickly or slowly--depending on how much time they had." Think about that for just a minute.

[@saltyp123]

Bone tomahawk scene came to mind.....that was quick and probably be a blessing compared to some longer outcomes that I've googled.

[@fweg2530]

You could be an edger I don't know

[@jch8376]

I like my torture medium rare.

[@CKMLMA8]

@@winningbigly9012 hahahahahaha this shouldn't be that funny

[@peaceonearth351]

@@CKMLMA8 He's a mad wanker.

[@andrewalden8364]

I am reading this book now and I can’t say enough how good this book is. It’s amazing! It’s brutal, it compassionate, it’s history. And written so, so well!!!

[@Gerrard_7up]

Some say it's near plagiarism on " The Great Plains " - Prescott Webb

[@slipnorris5882]

One of the best podcast I ever heard. It was straight to the point in story telling and crammed with a bunch of information

[@onesojourner7514]

I'm mexican, and in Mexico people (especially with a leftist bent) elevate the aztecs as noble, virtuous, people. They choose to ignore how ruthless, cruel, and barbaric the aztecs were. Every year aztecs raided other tribes, like texcocans, tlaxcalans, etc., and captured, enslaved, and sacrificed annually, sometimes thousands of them, by ripping their hearts out as it was still beating.

[@skippyflapper]

I've never heard anybody call the Aztecs noble and virtuous. From my childhood on up to now, I've always known them as a tribe that attacked their neighbors often.

[@onesojourner7514]

@@skippyflapper- They speak of them as virtuous in relation to the europeans (spaniards). The spaniards did commit atrocities when they arrived to mesoamerica, but the aztecs had also been committing them for a long time prior to that.

[@DavidLopez-yt2yp]

I love my aztec heritage they were smart and intelligent but brutish and loved warfare

[@onesojourner7514]

@@DavidLopez-yt2yp- You are objective in your appreciation of the mexicas (aztecs). We need to appreciate the good, but also recognize and accept the bad.

[@DavidLopez-yt2yp]

@@onesojourner7514 ya I love the fact that they fought for territory and they were savage strategic warriors I have nothing against them i absolutely love them. everyone had ancestors who were violent and it's nothing to be ashamed for As for the natives most of them had several blood fueds and constantly fought each other

[@Bullish431]

You know what I love about this podcast is that people who often don’t get recognized for being brilliant get recognized and found through this podcast. Awesome guest

[@kedabro1957]

It took a masculine specimen like Rogan to convince jocks that nerds were worth learning from.

[@para3245]

@@kedabro1957 q-aa aq

[@redomega24]

@@kedabro1957 its a combination of that and just people who were curious about a lot of shit Rogan was curious about

[@andrewo5296]

Like Jared Diamond.

[@Noelsterrr]

I wouldn't call them brilliant, sensational and creative maybe, but not brilliant.

[@GPERZ208]

I read this book when I was 23..it speaks of the onion river in Texas. My mom was born in 1945 and used to pick wild onions on the same river banks that quannah Parker rode on only 30 years before. When I told her she was amazed at the history.

[@manwithnoplan5496]

Reading this book rn. It’s absolutely fascinating. Really gives you a sense of just how brutal life was back then

[@gordonbothe]

So Comanche slaughtered anyone they liked because they were boss. Then a stronger boss came and slaughtered them. Cruel world but the same rules apply to everyone on mother earth.

[@claytonkeates2614]

Absolutely true.

[@eljefe5536]

Wonder who's going to slaughter the stronger boss...

[@softwareopsmobileappdevelo9329]

El Jefe ! A virus

[@gameon2546]

True

[@somguy5035]

@@eljefe5536 Their own prosperity-born naivety appears to be doing the trick

[@blackmancer]

'mostly peaceful' comanche raids

[@TubenIt83]

“Fiery, but mostly peaceful.”

[@stephenscum2613]

Your a dick for that! Now I got to sit here in my pissed pants... laughed so hard at this fr tho

[@henrymudgett2646]

Mai Lai Massacre anyone?

[@roanboersma3401]

guys history was all peaceful! fiery but mostly peaceful!

[@henrymudgett2646]

karate guy If by the logic of the colonists (i.e. the natives had no claim to the land), there was no conquest or theft, because they saw the americans as “people with no ruler,” which, despite a brutally flawed mindset, seemingly justified the persecution and removal of locals. Now, if some foreign nations came to the U.S. and Canada, planted their flag on our shores, and set up forts; would you accept that? if they encroached on your personal property (which, by the way, most native tribes, city states, and nations did have concepts of land ownership, just not the european definition), would you accept the narrative that you were rightly conquered because they killed, maimed, or otherwise intimidated you and your family into leaving?

[@cjonesufc]

I happened to pick this book up at a book store when it was new and being featured at the store entry. Absolutely loved it and recommended it to numerous people so I was happy to see this episode when it came out. It was actually the one that made me a fan of Joe’s.

[@Gigi-dp8ir]

I am Angela Parker, Cynthia Ann and Quannah Parker are my direct relatives. Most of my family is in Texas. Ironically Quannah and Cynthia Ann are buried at Fort Sill, OK and my son completed his bootcamp training there. He said his infantry was impressed. Lol I've also been blessed with the "Parker Blue" eyes.

[@jonesfamilyfarm9230]

Wow 😮that’s so incredible you have some awesome DNA I’m a Texan and I live abt 25 miles from Comanche, Texas it’s a small town close by called Hico which prides themselves as the home of Billy the kid--

[@4NaturesStory]

Indians called them Devils eyes.

[@Xxiii__]

native luv white women

[@brixcosmo6849]

​@@Xxiii__ 😂

[@gjs_5554]

Yea sure u are.

[@eliminator173]

--"You know what Comanche means? It means enemy of everyone, forever". - "You know what that makes me"? --"It makes you my enemy" -"No, it makes me a Comanche".

[@simoneubanks6976]

I love that movie

[@ericpettyfishing]

"Lords of the plains"

[@joshuatowell9793]

eliminator173 lord of the plains.

[@GammaFrost1]

@Lucas Cruz oooo someone is edgy

[@samuelgonzales6503]

That part is golden Cracks me up everytime

[@Spiewick]

Hey people, hes telling you that EVERYONE on this earth has committed atrocities at one point of their civilization including his own and thought it was "normal"...

[@allthesmallthings1041]

Morality is fluid.

[@burnitdown6663]

Try explaining that to most natives!

[@bustarogers9990]

Spiewick...if you're disagreeing with the Liberal narrative you're a misogynistic, racist prick lol. God i am honestly embarrassed to even be a part of this pathetic, entitled, gutless, selfish generation.

[@kyyo7917]

That's false though, slavery after war is one thing, but "atrocities" from every last people? Sorry, no. Read history more accurately .

[@TheRamblingJewShow]

ry494 lmao this comment might spite him into making a reply but I have a feeling he’s not gonna reply to this 😂 he’s obviously someone who lets the media think for him and thinks just because his 4x great grandfather didn’t kill babies that means no one from the same culture/ race committed any atrocities 😒

[@dohnnycash]

The John Wayne movie “The Searchers” is based on the search for Cynthia Ann Parker. She was taken from Fort Parker around Mexia Texas. She was recovered about 25 years later up near the panhandle of Texas. At the edge of the Palo Dura Canyons the last good hideout of the Comanche. This is where the US Army found a huge herd of Comanche Horses hidden in a box canyon. The soldiers were ordered to surround the canyon rim and waste every horse. Over a thousand maybe as many as fifteen hundred Ponies shot down. That crippled the Lord’s of the Plains, taking their mobility away they were forced to live at Fort Sill. Oklahoma.

[@CaptainLuckyLuke]

To anyone that loved ‘Empire of the Summer Moon’ I highly recommend ‘Blood & Thunder’ by Hampton Sides. It’s about Kit Carson and it’s a truly excellent read.

[@ItsTheMunz]

Every single one of us is only here because our lineage was full of violent savagery.

[@MarsLonsen]

We're here bacuse our ancestors were the best at it

[@linnymaemullins3319]

Pretty much🤔

[@MrOneL24]

Well played

[@raydonahue1978]

@Equinsu Ocha! Don't project

[@nopenottodaychumps79]

You're here because The Almighty put you here! None of us are the reason for our existence...

[@sirql8]

One of the best books ever written, certainly the best I've ever read. A must-read for every American wondering why it took so long to tame Texas.

[@donmiller2908]

" A must-read for every American wondering why it took so long to tame Texas" You're not being exactly accurate here. What you should have written was "why it took so long to steal the land and enslave the original inhabitants" Let's keep it real. Greedy white people wanted land and would do anything, including genocide if it came to that, to get it. Just be honest.

[@doc.z.sadler8201]

Cynthia Parker is in my family. I got the pleasure to visit her grave. Shes buried out at Ft. Sill OK, and i didnt know her importance until my grandmother told me the whole story. Its really neat to hear the story that she passed down, and to hear it from her outlook

[@punxxi]

We must be related then, my family was descended her, also. The John Wayne movie, The Searchers was about her kidnapping et cet.

[@marianneallen2051]

The first novel I read about Cynthia Ann Parker was in 1982 and was called ride the wind. It was an incredibly story and I wish it had been made into a movie back then. I will have to read Empire of the Summer Moon to see how it Stacks up. I think credit should have been given to the author of ride the wind who researched Cynthia and Quanah Parker.

[@claytonkeates2614]

I read this book shortly after it came out. Its stunning. The Comanche have an unreal history like no other. It is an actual account of the brutality on both sides, and long before westward expansion. Highly recommend it

[@Ananaspomidorka]

seems like Comanche were like Mongolians

[@TheUnseenPath]

Really? Sounds like an interesting read.

[@testodude]

Me too. I picked this book up years ago in a newsstand as an airplane read, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Coincidentally, I was flying weekly to Austin TX for work-- the heart of Comanche territory. When I got to Austin that week, I got a ride from a talkative cab driver who said said unprompted that he was a descendant of Comanches. I was a little stunned by that.

[@mr.e3894]

@@Ananaspomidorka that's exactly what I gathered as I read it. Can you imagine how things would have gone , had they had the equal firepower?!?

[@CB-hw7iu]

@@Ananaspomidorka You hit the nail on the head. Both were small people but on horseback they are 7 feet tall and weigh 1400 pounds or more.

[@cappy2282]

People don't understand that back in the day "might=right" (meaning *strength* was the only moral argument)

[@testodude]

That is how nature works. Competitors are not tolerated.

[@harrymills2770]

That was a major feature of Manifest Destiny. "God approves what we're doing, because we WON!"

[@gfdthree1]

Excellent point

[@cappy2282]

@@gfdthree1 Thanks buddy! I read about "might = right" from the book "The once and future king" (It's like an old school fantasy book about King Arthur and Sir Lancelot. Explains how king Arthur created the knights of the round table to bring goodness to strength) It is an extremely good book 👍

[@donovanjones4175]

It still applies today

[@TimothyMurrin]

I also read this book last year and wow.. It was so informative of what was going on during that time in that region that I had no idea about. A great read

[@BIg_Nizz_606]

That is my my great grandpa 10x on the cover. My family let me know of this book just today. Brings my heart joy knowing the history of my family will be brought to so many.

[@woodspirit98]

My gr gr grandfather fought in the civil war. He was born in the 1840's. You're saying that man on the cover was born 140 years before that? I don't think they had cameras in the year 1700.

[@BIg_Nizz_606]

@@woodspirit98 no the picture was taken in the mid 1800s. What can I say going back through my ancestry most of my grandparents had kids before they were 16. Most having kids at the age of 13. Simply look at the most recent news worthy article so you can understand, a Kentucky family had 6 generations in one picture last year and the oldest woman was born in 1927.

[@lovelytime1440]

They've gotta make more movies on the real history of how America came about.

[@DScott-pc7rd]

Ken Burns. Look up his series

[@zakibey7]

If they do that then you would have to talk about the various treaties

[@freckleheckler6311]

@Lovely Time they wouldnt do that because it would depict some tribes as gruesome and barbaric and anyone who isnt white is the greatest victim in america according to the democratic party and the white men would be shown as empathetic and the liberals want white men to be illustrated as gruesome and evil.

[@zakibey7]

@Sgt. Giggle Mittens y'all were the savage violent rapist cannibals

[@zakibey7]

@Sgt. Giggle Mittens I'm fully aware of that who came to turtle island ie America and raped robbed and murdered the indigenous peoples of the land?

[@Longjohnsilver58]

I like how he presents history and makes no attempt to sugar coat it.

[@ProfessorFatMan]

As school should be. If were going to teach the youth history, let's be brutally honest.

[@dudeman5166]

One Man the history of the whites is extremely tame compared to African tribal mentality that still goes on today.

[@jnapier6484]

Casey Pegram pretty tame compared to the natives as well. They were killing babies and pregnant women long before we got here and civilized them or killed them. Sad but true.

[@oneman5753]

@@dudeman5166 "hey that guy hits his wife, so let me do the same, rape her, and kill him and his child, then claim I'm good! that makes sense!" No, dude that's a really poor way to rationalize shitty behavior. Yours, mine or anyone else's. How about just... you know.. take responsibility and be like "yeah, that happened, my guys did it, and that was fucked up. Lets not do that again and how about we not cast stones given that we live in a glass house (and likely claim to be christian per the numbers)", like someone who has morals, ethics, and empathy?

[@oneman5753]

@@jnapier6484 Pls see response to Casey if ur interested. No point in repeating myself. If you have morals, ethics, and empathy, there's really no argument to be made here. Wrongs not visited on you doesn't provide clearance to do more wrongs. But that's again, if you have morals, ethics and empathy which is sadly, lacking in ppl clearly as your response shows lol. Anywho, enjoy your day ppl I've said enough here.

[@jkschulte3448]

This book is amazing. I would never have known about it without JRE.

[@weslemens5963]

This is o e THE BEST books I've read in the last few years. So many emotions involved in the taking of land and the disdain for other people.

[@Hidden_Lizard]

"A teenage girl or young woman would likely be turned into...sort of a slave." Hmmm.....I wonder what kind of slave they would be?

[@noconaroubideaux9423]

More of an indentured servant until they could understand and speak Comanche, then they weren't slaves anymore.

[@Hidden_Lizard]

@@noconaroubideaux9423 WOW....they would let them go once they learned their language? Well that seems down right magnanimous of the Commanches. They seemed like a very tolerant bunch. "John Parker was pinned to the ground, he was scalped and his genitals ripped off. Then he was killed. Granny Parker was stripped and fixed to the earth with a lance driven through her flesh. Several warriors raped her while she screamed. ‘Silas Parker’s wife Lucy fled through the gate with her four small children. But the Comanche overtook them near the river. They threw her and the four children over their horses to take them as captives.’ So intimidating was Comanche cruelty, almost all raids by Indians were blamed on them. Texans, Mexicans and other Indians living in the region all developed a particular dread of the full moon - still known as a ‘Comanche Moon’ in Texas - because that was when the Comanche came for cattle, horses and captives. They were infamous for their inventive tortures, and women were usually in charge of the torture process. The Comanche roasted captive American and Mexican soldiers to death over open fires. Others were castrated and scalped while alive. The most agonising Comanche tortures included burying captives up to the chin and cutting off their eyelids so their eyes were seared by the burning sun before they starved to death. Contemporary accounts also describe them staking out male captives spread-eagled and naked over a red-ant bed. Sometimes this was done after excising the victim’s private parts, putting them in his mouth and then sewing his lips together. One band sewed up captives in untanned leather and left them out in the sun. The green rawhide would slowly shrink and squeeze the prisoner to death. T R Fehrenbach quotes a Spanish account that has Comanche torturing Tonkawa Indian captives by burning their hands and feet until the nerves in them were destroyed, then amputating these extremities and starting the fire treatment again on the fresh wounds. Scalped alive, the Tonkawas had their tongues torn out to stop the screaming." - www.amren.com/news/2013/08/the-real-life-tontos-how-comanche-indians-butchered-babies-roasted-enemies-alive-and-would-ride-1000-miles-to-wipe-out-one-family/

[@noconaroubideaux9423]

@@Hidden_Lizard You forgot the part where one of the Parker children, Cynthia Ann Parker, was adopted and married one of the most powerful war leaders and her son was the last, and only, chief of the entire tribe, Quanah Parker. If you're just gonna use sources who had a vested interest in making us look like boogiemen then all your gonna find is shit that makes us look like boogiemen.

[@Hidden_Lizard]

@@noconaroubideaux9423 What about all the multitude of white captives who eagerly went back to white society at the first chance they had to be free of the Commanches? I'm a realist, not trying to hide the sins of those who came before us. Unlike you, I recognize that white settlers commited wide scale atrocities and I recognize that indigenous Indians did so also and I don't attempt to water that history down. Show me some historical accounts of how the settlers murdered and tortured Indians and I'll believe it. Those things were just too common back then to be able to credibly deny they happened. You could fill volumes of books chronicling the tortures that everyone was inflicting on each other through all of history. Commanches or any other native people weren't morally above that any more than Europeans were. Your ancestors did some horrible things to others same as mine did (even tho mine didn't have anything to do with the westward expansion of the United States, they're guilty of other atrocities) and the sooner you fully admit that without attempting to cover for them the better off all of us will be able to deal with each other in the future. I don't hate modern day native people for what their ancestors did, I just hate attempts to pretend they never did it. And I also hate that TV show Vikings for the same reason because they tried to gloss over the whole raping and sex slave aspect of their history.

[@noconaroubideaux9423]

@@Hidden_Lizard See, but you might not disregard white atrocities when they happen but you don't recognize the political reality. You mentioned the Parker Ranch raid but what you don't know is that the Parker Ranch was located in our treaty territory and we were promised that white people would not be allowed to cross over our territory, let alone settle there. You didn't mention the few attempts that we made to ask them to move before the raid happened. The fact of the matter is the Texas government sold land to the Parker family that wasn't theirs to sale and our only recourse was to attack the ranch. This was a common practice because governments would use settlers and other people who moved to the area as buffers to prevent us from going further south and the results were usually what happened at the Parker ranch. Rarely did white captives ever make it back to their settlements. If they did want to go back, it wasn't known because they wouldn't know the language to be able to understand how to get back. The ones who did end up back were usually the result of attacks on Comanche villages and they were usually gone for a short period of time so they didn't learn how shit worked to develop relationships in the tribe that were deeper than the parents they were given to. You say you just want history to be portrayed correctly. Well, there were captives and there were wars and we were very good at war and when we were at war we were very brutal to our enemies. There were some Comanches who were just dicks in general. However, when we were not at war with someone or had no reason to attack them, we valued trade more than anything since our primary resource was bison and you can't survive on that diet alone. That means we needed intercultural relationships and their maintenance more than we needed war. So when you talk about history without these political context, you talk about them incorrectly because you see actions without context. This was a common practice in media and in government documents in order to persuade others to help attack us and other tribes. Anything you find in Texas history is gonna be embellished because, during the Republic days, Texas had a vested interest in getting the US government involved in these conflicts. Thats why the destruction of Linneville is in papers and government reports but the fact that it was in direct retaliation for the Council House fight isn't. Were we some perfect people? Nah. But we were as just as any civilized nation at the time attempted to pretend to be and thats the point.

[@RealEstateAlchemist1031]

I read this book when it came out several years ago and literally couldn't put it down. It is so well written as it compels the history forward with making the people become so real to me. As a Texas I of course knew some of the story of Cynthia Parker (it's taught in schools here) but never got the whole picture that this book delivers. Thank you.

[@wendeln92]

For "Dances with Wolves" fans - I have a love/hate realtionship with that movie - but anyway, the Indians in the book were the Comanches that John Dunbar associated with, not the Sioux (like the movie). Don't know Quanah Parker? knew about him and his mother for many years. Also, Rogan's and others opinion of the book only serves to prove that reading a reliable History book is way more satisfactory than watching a crap movie and thinking you are learning something about History.

[@Bob-lw2kt]

Kevin Costner Bought the Mount Rushmore Land out from the Sioux Local Clans, after the movie, and decided to sell it to the U.S. Government, instead of to those Sioux Clans. Nice move hell-yb-ich boi !

[@effewe2]

Yes agree.

[@Truth3737]

I am Lakota (sioux). It was the Lakota that were being represented. Tatanka is Lakota for buffalo. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. It was the Sue that was the last stand. After they went to the West Coast they circled back to the plains to fight the Lakota. With Crazy Horse and the great Sioux War 1870s 1880s

[@4589scott]

@@Truth3737 right, for the movie. But evidently the book was based on the Comanche.

[@4589scott]

@@Bob-lw2kt if this is true, Costner is a complete asswipe! How DUMB is he??

[@joshholmes1409]

When he talks about my ancestors, I feel a deep respect, as a great grandson to Q.P. I am glad people are talking about him..

[@LATOHOUSTON]

His book “Empire of the Summer Moon” is currently unavailable in Amazon. Must be a good read.

[@AlexanderSimic]

I sold all my amazon stocks when i found out they censor books

[@chaosdweller]

I read half and kinda got bored with it, maybe I I'll pick it up again from the halfway point , with all this enthusiasm

[@briantrend1812]

it definitely wont be available on the bullshit lefty bbc boook club

[@mr.e3894]

Just finished the audio book version a few days ago. Loved it! Will definitely listen to it again!

[@somchai9033]

Available now

[@marchillis6079]

I teach an AP US History class and I had to abbreviate Native history into one week. I reiterated to my Navajo students that this is only skimming the top and in their spare time, learn not just our Navajo history but ALL Native history as its tied together. We interacted greatly with the Naałání (Comanche), mostly as enemies in history. Later, we all were and are faced with similar struggles. I've been reading this history over many years and I always find out something new. Thanks for the segment Joe.

[@donvanevery3235]

The unfortunate reality is that most of these depictions along with historical accounts, including the information you have gained for your degree in, are tainted with what is the white narrative, which is why they get a whole week and after 500 years are finally acknowledging Columbus as the monster Natives always new he was. So native history as told by whites, are more often than not.. the justification or obfuscation of genocide.

[@sayittomyfaceortapglassfar4392]

That is a despicable shame, I honestly could hurl, advanced placement 😕 U.S. History, barely teaching Native History, 😳 not to be rude, but even though you encourage your students (and you need to encourage all students, not just the Native, to seek the truth.) don't you feel like a tool for an evil entity? It's terrible 😞 because you know you know better.

[@pearljameric]

@@sayittomyfaceortapglassfar4392 Get over it. There's only a limited time they have to teach students. You can sum it up in one week easily. We conquered and took the land just as the indians had done to each other for thousands of years. We just won. Didn't you hear they killed babies and the native americans were a culture of raiding. They should appreciate how well we did it.

[@D0nnyy]

@@sayittomyfaceortapglassfar4392 the United States is a evil entity the Comanche had the write approach to white colonists if we all fought like the Comanche it would be been much better

[@itsnotatoober]

Skimming the top, that's what he said am i right indians?

[@ZapataE]

Learned about all this in detention when I was in elementary school. Most of the names of the plains tribe are the names their enemies gave them like the Sioux and others . I have Comanche and Apache blood on my dad and mothers side so the book is very interesting.

[@dennishorn8636]

one of my all time favorite books and I've read thousands! It's like time traveling, you feel like you're living it.

[@newperve]

We never fought a 40 year war against anyone except them. Afghans: Hold my coffee.

[@jsjones418]

should've said "hold my poppy" lol

[@harrymills2770]

@@jsjones418 I once knew a woman in Washington, who grew her own poppies and self-medicated. She never became an opium addict.

[@nobodysreview6137]

lol

[@jonathanvandongen4181]

we Dutch fought Spain for 80 years..and won ;)

[@greatpumpkinpatch9167]

Babies in the womb...DOH

[@Blooster97]

As a Comanche, I would love if Joe had an actual Comanche on the podcast at some point. I get that he’s an author and historian, but it gets old listening to people talk about natives like they’re not around anymore.

[@loco2loudhoodrichbctrill265]

Facts, an act of selective suppression. When people talk about natives they talk like we only exist in some fairytale world. They dont know, because they dont actually care

[@AtibaVV]

@adamtheyankee my nigga trolling hard

[@marthaanderson9252]

Exactly. This man disavows tnousands of years of oral knowledge passed down among Native people because it doesnt fit the standards of Western Science. A shame because if you want to get to know the Comanche you should talk to actual Comanche

[@AtibaVV]

@adamtheyankee my nigga still in the comments section trolling like fuck to sow negativity somewhere else bud

[@berno8535]

Well, in the context they are talking about... those natives don't really exist no more. The modern Comanche is not the same type as the Comanche from then. It's the same as colonials or settlers, they don't really exist the same way as back then, that's why they are talked about as historical figures. I can see why and where you might get upset though, but also take into account the fact that it was a different experience back then as to now.

[@patrickbarrett5650]

Excellent book and so is ‘The earth is weeping’ the two together are an education. 👏🏻

[@guineveregruntle6746]

Empire of the Summer Moon is a great read. Thank you JR for introducing it to me.

[@seth8933]

"9 year old girl with blonde hair and blue eyes who was taken in a comanche raid and ended up being the mother of the last great comanche chief." I can't even imagine that little girl's life. Absolutely horrifying.

[@jw70478]

The first adult book I read as a kid was Ride the Wind, which was a well researched novel based on her life. She was a reknowned medicine woman and the only wife of a chief- an honor to her that he took no ther wives.

[@seth8933]

@@jw70478 Wow that's really interesting. Did it say anything about her feelings about being kidnapped/if she ever tried or wanted to escape?

[@jw70478]

@@seth8933 No. Her history seems to show that she was completely taken in and accepted into the culture- and considered herself one of them. The author balances her story against other young women who were treated as slaves- so it isn't just a romantic ideal. In the story, it was said that Quanna was named by his mother. It means Little Flower or something like that. As a young man it was customary to go on a vision quest and return with a new name for oneself. In the book it was said that he came back and said that he would keep the name his mother gave him.

[@MsColl90]

Don’t be stupid!

[@HighMaintenancePS]

Or exciting.

[@herodotus53]

I teach history to ninth graders and one of my favorite sources to use is a painting showing the first encounter between U.S. cavalry and Comanche emissaries. The Comanche traveled in single-file ranks to conceal their numbers as they rode across the plains, like the Sand People in the very first Star Wars movie. These people were terrifyingly good at mounted warfare- the Mongols of North America....

[@spacepirate3391]

Yeah they were badass. They scared everyone even other Native tribes. They thought they were ghost because you never saw them coming.

[@007ElSenor]

They excelled at attacking at night, something no other tribes or Calvary would do-this is why the book has that title. Comanches were the only Native American society that was an entirely a military society.

[@anthonym4706]

@@007ElSenor The Comanche may have been the only entirely military society in North America, but not sure about the whole Continent. The Caribs were a complete warrior society (although more brute and less strategic). Raisng males from age four into the combative way of life. The Aztecs were also a complete military society, relying on their big warrior class for Expansion and Ritual Props (i.e humans for sacrifice). They perfected the Art of Battlefield Capture in order to later kill their adversaries in an elaborate ritual. (Therefore deeming it very clumsy to kill on the battlefield). The Comanche were definitely the Top Dogs of the Plains. Experts in their craft and Beloved Brothers.

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

@@anthonym4706 North America is the whole continent, though?

[@anthonym4706]

@@H41030v3rki110ny0u Most Natives consider the western hemisphere as it's own continent mainly because the land was connected prior to the panama canal, the Natives had contact with eachother, and the Natives were of the same race due to the isolation from the rest of the world.

[@nathannotch3798]

“The Heart of Everything That Is” is also a great book, highly recommend

[@patrickhayes-foley6390]

This book is riveting historical writing done right. It also gives one insight into just how complex American history is. Fascinating stuff, and I'm not American.

[@ceedee3360]

I'm a member of the Waco band of the Wichita tribe. My tribe once stretched from central Texas into Oklahoma and central Kansas and lived along with the Comanche, and still live along with them here in Oklahoma. Joe should look into the great settlement of Etzanoa!

[@D0nnyy]

Joe doesn’t like true native history he likes Eurocentric bs

[@lecutter9382]

Is the favorite song of your tribe, The Eagles - 'Witchay Woman'? :P

[@rickc2102]

"Comanche" always makes me think of Link Wray. Nowadays it also makes me think of Hell or High Water.

[@starkicker5623]

Link Wray...nice reference

[@ritotron5752]

That movie is dope as hell

[@romeysiamese6712]

Or F Troop

[@megazoned3973]

I always think of John Wayne and Natalie Wood.

[@ReignCharger]

Well Link was a Shawnee, great Native musician!

[@edwardmartinez7286]

A lot of what he said applies to the Apache too. They were one of the last tribes on the frontier. Reservations were already opening but they refused to go. Lots of history out west

[@HBGetsDunkd]

S.C. Gwynne is one of my favorite authors!!! His book on Stonewall Jackson is literally amazing as well "Rebel Yell" is the title Empire of the Summer Moon is a great one too! thanks for having these guests on joe!!

[@camerrill]

Thanks for writing that fabulous book. I bought it when it came out, have read it three times, have given it as a gift to several people and have recommended it at least a dozen times. It changed my way of thinking in many ways.

[@jfaul_7823]

Larry Mcmurtry did a fine job of graphically telling the story of the Comanche tribe in his Lonesome Dove series.

[@alancorrea9161]

Great series

[@JohnSmith-jz4pk]

Best “shit kickers” ever!

[@c.l.freeman7654]

Great read. The whole Lonesome Dove series

[@filthymcnastyazz]

Bought the audiobook on the strength of this. Fascinating.

[@jamesriendeau128]

One of those books you can not put down. Prepare yourself to be stuck in a chair 🪑 until you are done. It's just incredible.. S.C. book on Stonewall Jackson is awesome too. Highly recommend it 🤠

[@lykn6929]

There should be Native historians on the show! Would love to hear their side of history in a discussion format like this.

[@dillond4709]

Yes... I literally threw this book in the trash b4 halfway through.. I couldn't take it.. I am native American (Ojibwe and oneida) plains not Southwest... I am not an excuser saying Comanche didn't do stuff... I am not going to listen or read some white guy claim to be this expert and write from such a European pov.. using language that is offensive and racist... there are native writers, read them

[@seeqr9]

@@dillond4709 Nah. People should read all POVs in their pure raw form.. not sugar coated for modern feelings sake.

[@savagendn961]

@@dillond4709 Thats what happens when we have to live in a country full of closet racists who never realized they were racist in the first place. I feel if there was more self awareness in the world itd be a much better place compared to how it is now.

[@oliveraparicio8464]

@@savagendn961 Yup just like you! You honestly think you can stop racism with racism? Hmmm! I'm a brown man maybe I should be racist towards you to make it even.

[@Fin_Nash]

@@dillond4709 You say white man so broadly it blows my mind, also your hatred for Europeans is way too broad.... my ancestors remained in Cymru and didn't even touch "American" soil. If you can say "I'm not saying the Comanche didn't do stuff" as justice for the horrid things that took place, then I will use the same sentence with the word "Europeans" at the end of it. Grow up and stop pretending to understand what any of our ancestors been through, especially taking sides on the matter... pressure on both sides forced horrific things to happen.

[@nickkorkodylas5005]

_"WE INDIANS are supposed to hate the white man. Everyone tells me this. I’ve heard it from whites, blacks and even from Indians._ _Well, folks, I hate to disappoint you, but I like white people just fine. To tell the truth, I rather admire them and their fascinating history._ _Oh, I know what you’re thinking. "Yeagley! How can you say that? How can you admire a people who slaughtered your ancestors, gave smallpox to those left alive, herded them onto reservations, made them all drunks, and as the final indignity sold their turquoise mines to the Japanese?"_ _Well, the way I figure it, anyone who could whip our Indian behinds like the white man did deserves our highest respect. And anyone who can whip a Comanche (my tribe) deserves the Medal of Honor._ _I admire a man who can beat me. I dare say, deep inside all Indians at least those who are still warriors at heart there is a special admiration for the white man._ _When the Comanches first encountered the white man, his behavior didn’t shock them. They saw that he took what he wanted by force. And they understood. Because the Comanches did the same to their weaker neighbors._ _If my ancestors had been strong enough, they would have taken the white man’s land, instead of the other way around. And they wouldn’t have felt guilty about it afterwards. You wouldn’t have seen any defeated white people getting affirmative action from Comanches._ _When one general surrenders to another, they salute each other. It doesn’t mean that there’s no bitterness between them. It just means that a warrior respects his foe._ _White people understand this, because they too come from a warrior culture. The white man has great respect for the Indian...."_ - It's A Warrior Thing. You Would Not Understand. - David Yeagley I would say "Rest in Peace" if it did not sound so offensive for a Warrior spirit like him. He may had not the chance to draw the blood of his enemies in life but he still demonstrated outmost bravery and soldiery by fighting against the narrative and forced self-victimization on the Indigenous peoples.

[@slickdude7760]

You should get barred for saying this

[@TheJbiz84]

"Sometimes the truth hurts like no other, when lies can cause enough damage to the present and future." Jesse Bedell

[@TheJbiz84]

@@slickdude7760 why? Does it offend you? Your offence is quite tiring, a perception many others share, for what is pain without gain? Without knowledge of the truth serves no one that seeks to live a lie?

[@justmyopinion2333]

There is a similar respect from whites for the Japanese samurai culture etc , the stories ww2 vets said about Japanese were usually about how tough the fuckers where and are. That was one reason for the atom bomb because Americans figured they would have to kill every last Japanese person to win, if the shock of giant bombs didn’t stop their will to fight. Suicidal charges at certain death ,kamikaze pilots, self disembowelment from feeling dishonorable. Japanese get respect from whites who fought them and there children and grandchildren who heard these stories

[@justmyopinion2333]

Burton Knighten when I was in army I worked with a lot of Philippine folks small frames, but amazin endurance and will. 5 foot 3 a 110 Ibs but they could carry 40 lbs rucksack 20 miles no sweat. Very motivating to do physical work with someone so small but tough as nails never complained never gave up.

[@brianwilke592]

One of the great Texas authors was a man named John Graves. He wrote a book named Goodbye to a River. In this book, which was about his canoe trip down part of the Brazos River in the late 1950's, just before it was dammed up, also covers a lot of the local history of the area just southwest of the Dallas/Fort Worth area. There is a very large part of the book about "The Nation" what the locals called the Comanches, and many of the Texas legends who battled them over that 40 year period your guest is talking about. Just another source....and a great read.

[@lecutter9382]

As it was commonly said back then, 'There's no lower form of white man than a Texan.'

[@brianwilke592]

@@lecutter9382 Oh come on, troll. KZbin says your hate is good to go. Wouldn't let me post what I really want to say to a person like you. Seriously.

[@firewaterofcupsandwind]

I’m going to grab this book. Thank you

[@crowsader9943]

Reading the comments is giving me cancer... He's not saying Europeans were not brutal He's just saying the Comanches weren't innocent.

[@EnigmaticDecay]

@Drewski J He's not saying they're not. Read again. Slowly.

[@kingdevin2]

CrowSader Get over it, you just dont like hearing about what your ancestors did wrong. Every history lesson doesn’t have to be about what white people did good, most of the history was modified anyway. The very reason why Britain and the U.S are good counties economically is because of the thief’s stealing all of Africa’s precious medals and taking the African people to work for zero. Lol some families today still benefit from this.

[@kingdevin2]

Every time someone comments about white people you mfs act like its a crime to talk about what white people have done to aboriginals and this planet, greedy ass lazy mfs of 1800-1910 fucked are planet and we still do nothing about.

[@ThermicLight]

@@kingdevin2 - Get over your hyper agency of white people and the hypo agency of everyone else because your blatant bigotry is showing.

[@Toracube]

Get better soon.

[@whitetailpoet4243]

Great interview, thanks. I've had Empire Of The Summer Moon for several years and have enjoyed reading it. It's cool to hear S.C. Gwynne's passion for the history of the Great Plain's and it's people.

[@AmigoKandu]

@5:40 Joe: "It's crazy that Comanche would keep hostages and bring them into the Tribe". Most tribes sought to take young women of child bearing age from other tribes... or even non-Indians. The Oatman sisters were taken by Yavapai Apaches when they killed the rest of the Oatman family. The girls were sold to Mojave Indians, and slowly initiated into tribal life. The younger sister passed away, due to depression. Olive Oatman was given tattoo lines of maturity ceremony on her chin area, like regular tribal women. In a few years, bounty hunters offer reward money to the Tribe, and freed Olive who returned to American society. Oatman, Arizona on Historic US Route 66 bears their name. Cynthia Ann Parker, kidnapped as young girl by the Comanche, was favored due to the piercing glare of her blue eyes. She never showed fear. Chief Nocona took her as his only wife, though tradition allowed him many wives. Their son Quanah became Chief, and engaged with white society, invested in railroad company, became wealthy. Cynthia Ann had been captured by Texas Rangers, and taken back to her white family where she was never happy. Quanah, as an older man, searched his mother's grave, and brought her remains to his property. When Quanah passed away, both he and Cynthia Ann were buried in the Indian Cemetary at Fort Sill, Oklahoma where Geronimo was buried.

[@NotoriousHKyle]

I could listen to him talk all day. Very fascinating history that they don’t teach you in school. If you haven’t read the book, please do you won’t regret it.

[@LuisFlores-kz1tg]

I’ve read this book in prison. Hands down my top 10. It’s a really deep book. I hope you all get to read it

[@nicb.1411]

Your mom's really deep.

[@jimmymcnulty5079]

Where did you do time, bro?

[@LuisFlores-kz1tg]

@@jimmymcnulty5079 Colorado.

[@LuisFlores-kz1tg]

@Mason 22 I wouldn’t know about common. But I do know that there isn’t much to do in there. But books help a lot

[@pjlevesque2543]

@@LuisFlores-kz1tg whaa the book called

[@AlongtheFarClimbDown843]

*“Comanches put the prisoner to work digging a hole, telling him they needed it for a religious ceremony. When the captive, using a knife and his hands, had completed digging a pit about five feet deep, they bound him with rope, placed him in it, filled the hole with dirt, packing it around his body and exposed head. They then scalped him and cut off his ears, nose, lips, and eyelids. Leaving him bleeding, they rode away, counting on the sun and insects to finish their work for them. Later, back at their encampment, they told the story as an excellent joke, one which gained them a certain celebrity throughout the tribe.”* - *Stanley Noyes, **_Los Comanches, The Horse People 1751 -- 1845_** (1993)*

[@blubberywhale9247]

They were disgusting people.

[@santinomireles]

I am Comanche 😬

[@trainheavy9001]

Jesus fuck, that's brutal

[@martinenn]

@@blubberywhale9247 they were people.

[@aronlane4664]

@@russellmorrow8385 I think he just means all groups have done things like this at some point in history

[@blackdogleg]

Yep. Whenever I hear about the Peaceful native Americans living in perfect harmony with nature in innocent bliss. My palm ends up on my face. The Aztecs created the greatest empire in America not because of inclusion and harmony but due to limitless brutality and the fear that induced to the tribes on their ever expanding borders. I am certain they had a great effect on the Comanche who certainly they were in contact with.

[@TedH71]

Aztecs were too far south to be of any good connections. The Comanche descended from the Eastern Shoshone out of Montana and thereabouts. Yes, the Comanches actually raided very far into reportedly Panama. They brought back jaguar skins and baby alligators.

[@blackdogleg]

@@TedH71 yes. Definitely had contact. The Aztecs were also far ranging. Obviously they would have made a great impression.

[@sayittomyfaceortapglassfar4392]

@@TedH71 yeah you don't know shit they have a uto aztecan language for a reason lol no contact? U r lame, they were family!!!

[@siouxicide9002]

There was many tribal nations who were completely peaceful. The nation who brought raiding to the Americas was the Vikings over 1000 years ago. So ofcourse once Europeans came to conquer life went from visiting relative's based on the seasons, to all out warfare as increasingly scare natural resources depleted u dumb bitch.

[@lonerrr_5569]

What about the Incans of South America?

[@jgray1711]

First exposure to the Comanche was reading Lonesome Dove. Have always been fascinated by the Comanche.

[@mc-lp4zl]

I knew about Quanah Parker when I was a child back in the 1960s. But then again, I'm a Texan with a huge family that lives here and others that are buried all over this State. Yes, I heard many stories of different towns in different times.

[@mikeanderson8603]

This comment is for James Vickers. African tribes had wars against each other just like the native Americans. The difference is that the losing Africans were sold into slavery to the Portuguese who in turn sold them to Europeans. What you apparently don't know is that African Americans sold other African Americans. This is not taught in schools although it's true.

[@qwaeofficial]

Ok

[@agnel47]

Fax

[@idunnodoyou]

Lol you mean Africans were selling other Africans. I don't think hardly any one of them were considered African Americans in that point in time.

[@mikeanderson8603]

@@idunnodoyou You are correct. I just caught that myself.

[@youtubehatestruthtellers8065]

African Americans didn't sell other African Americans. Africans sold Africans before there was even an America. And the Europeans and Portuguese were already on there way so to survive a little longer some African tribes sold their conquered enemies to gain favor with the colonizers and slave traders. I love you ppl's abridged history and all the subsequental comments just eating up the foolishness

[@chellepatino1675]

From Connecticut to Texas. Me too brother. The history they teach here is really cool.

[@thelandofsun]

I just started reading the book. Excellent. Mr Gwynne is a talented and gifted writer.

[@peteyardman83]

This book changed my mind and my view of the „Wild West“ in many ways. The best and most impressive history lesson I‘ve ever received. You just can‘t stop reading...

[@stivosimz]

So many goofy people will be in denial about this. Sadly.

[@jakewinters1138]

And also making all of these obvious comments about it going the other way

[@cormacio]

Just bought that book. Thanks for the recommend

[@briantessmann6936]

I just finished reading this book and it was very interesting and compelling. Great read!

[@davejohnson9823]

They do paint a very different picture of history in schools.

[@harrymills2770]

They teach whatever the political establishment wants them to teach.

[@oftin_wong]

You cant scare the kiddies

[@RyanDarling5280]

The commies have been playing the long game since the late 40s. It’s just getting worse. Don’t worry. They’re not going to win.

[@nix3001]

@@RyanDarling5280 can you elaborate?

[@dee.f88]

@@nix3001 Christopher Columbus....

[@stanleyphilipose6269]

As an author myself, I am really happy for S.C. Gwynne. It's awesome that Joe Rogan gives interesting people a platform to share ideas.

[@michaelrichardson7666]

its nice this book is finally getting some recognition. It's been out for years, and I always gift it to people for xmas or birthdays.

[@SuperDevanney]

He is an author - www.amazon.com/Retail-Apocalypse-Death-Malls-Retailers-ebook/dp/B07RV2FCMG

[@stanleyphilipose6269]

Yes! I've written a book titled Retail Apocalypse; The Death of Malls, Retailers & Jobs

[@stanleyphilipose6269]

@@SuperDevanney Thank you!

[@stanleyphilipose6269]

@@michaelrichardson7666 There's so much great information out there. It's hard to discover it sometimes with all the mainstream content we are inundated with.

[@Thunderhorsebaba]

I am Comanche, a direct descendant of Quanah Parker. My great-grandmother told me stories about Quanah Parker who was told by her grandmother. My family still speaks the Comanche language, and I can speak a little. This guy is pretty accurate on the history.

[@josephtessari8769]

Great book!!! I never read a book twice until this one.

[@jeffdufrene7176]

Has Joe Rogan ever interviewed the author of 1491 and 1493? Charles Mann. Fascinating histories of the Americas. Extremely well researched. Would be interesting to see how his theories have changed or not in the last 20 years

[@Jse0607]

Technically the last war chief was a WW2 veteran that completed all of the tasks to become a war chief while fighting against the Germans. Very interesting story

[@D0nnyy]

He was Crow not Comanche that’s why he refers to Qunnah Parker as the last Comanche war cheif

[@Jse0607]

@@D0nnyy oof I didn’t even think about that

[@dohnnycash]

Quanah was the son of PETA Nocona and Cynthia Ann Parker Nocona was a Comanche Chief you’re probably aware

[@rudebwoyjunglist]

I bought that book and finished it a few months back. Such a good book. Finished it in 3 days.

[@mikem5405]

Joe is a Great entertainer

[@doyleskyler8849]

Finally a modern historian that does not sugar coat the history of native Americans.

[@giovannilazzarotto5032]

I dont think people sugar coat it. I think the lack of historical knowledge is the problem. It's sad but people just arent aware of history despite what their school history books tell them. It's good for basic history but the violence is not allowed to be written in because of most school policies.

[@kevinbryant4741]

@@giovannilazzarotto5032 I think there is Giovanni only because when speak in frank truths about potentially sensitive things it makes them nervous, because they know they're walking in a minefield. Theres many subjects that this applies to and I'm not saying it's any one persons fault, it's the system. However, it's a weakness that our society has. Weakness among sharing ideas and communication. Which are two very important things.

[@giovannilazzarotto5032]

@@kevinbryant4741 That's a very solid point.

[@giovannilazzarotto5032]

@Chaos Undivided What do you base this response on? Lack of knowledge on any topic could be considered ignorance since we live in the information age. I'm just basing my answer as an educator who is allotted 30 minutes a day to teach History/Geography or Civics( I have to pick only one) because school districts find testing in ELA and Math more important. Kids may find they like it but they arent getting exposed to it.

[@foresthoe8072]

@Chaos Undivided Agreeed!!!!!! Only the true smart man. Woke man. Can see the truths. Read between the lines.

[@scottwilson2274]

This was such a good podcast I love ones like this and wish there were more!

[@wackyruss]

Texan here. My parents moved out to Cali and when I was in college my buddies and I would pile into my AstroVan & head out from Houston to go visit them. ROAD TRIP! Anyway, on one trip my van BROKE DOWN in Quanah, Texas. We were stuck there in a motel until my Dad drove out from Cali to rescue us. We noticed all the statues of an Indian Chief all around the small town. We read all the plaques and checked out the small museum to Quanah Parker. Because we were stuck there, we learned so much about the Last Comanche Chief!

[@dohnnycash]

That sounds like a hell of a Dad Like Mine

[@stevenrogers9123]

I grew up in West Texas. At a place we called Cedar lake. Our house was 1 mile from the Quannah Parker historical marker. There were many battles fought on that area between the Comanche and the Buffalo Soldiers.

[@bluegent7]

I appreciate the classic, thoroughly and internationally researched on several continents, 19th century, historical, seven volume work France and England in North America, by Francis Parker, a friend of Indian chiefs. He was so highly respected that he could enter the Chiefs dwelling whenever he wanted for nightly quarters. Very interesting and revealing and not politically correct.

[@ernestturnage3653]

What happened to the indigenous native that was in tune with the Great Spirit and had a tear in his eye everytime a piece of litter hit the ground?

[@damoneimad4217]

Ernest Turnage Each tribe was different. You know that though. You’re just trying to be a smart ass!

[@ernestturnage3653]

@@damoneimad4217 Why, by debunking the myths and lies about the nobility of pre columbian civilizations? Gedda phuq outta here, ya loser.

[@billrandell4641]

He was a womanizing drunk that was saved from long prison sentences by his Hollyood buddies just like Harvey W....

[@26michaeluk]

He was Italian.

[@joshwatson1703]

That's the don't mess with Texas Indian.

[@charlesmaximus9161]

Something Gwynne might have missed in his relocation from his native New England: the same experiences between the settlers and indigenous tribes of the West that happened in the 19th century happened once before, 200 years before in the 17th and early 18th centuries, in almost the exact same way and with the exact same level of violence and brutality. The story of the New England frontier in the 17th and early 18th centuries is practically identical to the one of the latter 19th century. Research “King Philip’s War”, “King William’s War”, “Pequot War”, etc. From southern Rhode Island to northern Maine, all of New England is soaked in the blood of the past. It is a remarkably fascinating piece of early North American history that so many people still don’t know much about. If you think the story of Cynthiana Parker is interesting, be sure to check out Mary Rowlandson of Lancaster Massachusetts, or Hannah Dustin of Haverhill Massachusetts. I’m a New Englander and we have a wildly fascinating history.

[@jasonneal8841]

This is why the vikings didn't stay......and shear numbers of natives

[@paulytetris8306]

Hannah dustin is my ancestor, supposedly.

[@Big_munki]

Very true. Just as intriguing

[@theuncompromisedone3829]

Joe should get Anton Treuer on. Excellent writer and source on Ojibwe culture and history.