Should Minors Transition?

[@GEN]

Thanks for watching ya’ll it was a pleasure hosting the UNDECIDED series. How I like to think of the UNDECIDED group is potentially many of you watching and in the comment section. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[@EvilAzrael404]

Absolutely glad to see you as the host/moderator! Well-deserved Gen 👏

[@TurtleChad1]

Undecided people are just allowing evil to happen

[@LilSyl05]

BRO CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Debate are always better with a moderator in the middle!

[@YehorKozyr]

I did not expect this collaboration, but I think it worked out well!

[@SaraHigdon]

Was a pleasure to meet you!

[@MandosCulture]

Shout out to the FIRST Jubilee moderator that truly did an amazing job moderating and defending all people answering. Bring this guy on a lot more please

[@alrightari8401]

He has his own KZbin channel and he is always very unbiased. I love his videos for that!

[@OmegaDelta82]

He was excellent and he kept the conversation on track. 👍

[@GEN]

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching

[@Reilly.401]

@@alrightari8401fr!! I was so surprised this episode I hope they keep doing this

[@Kingofthenet2]

Yes he was the best I’ve seen so far!

[@AR-ek1jr]

They should call doctors, surgeons, psychatrist for this. We wanna hear their views!

[@lilducko]

That might affect their jobs tho

[@tokiix4681]

Majority of the medical community and the top of the top in their fields tend to not be conservative side, considering the conservatives only have misinformation as their information. Conservative side shouldn't have much of a say due to their lack of knowledge

[@Chelelinda]

@@lilducko freedom of speech really doesn’t exist

[@phar0ahad3]

They cant because the conservative oens if they were honest theyd lose thier jobs ....

[@mickeyrube6623]

Jubilee asking experts? Hahahaa😂😂😂😂!

[@doctorposting]

wait props for them actually being told to wear colors for once, this makes it so much easier LOL

[@antonyshadowbanned]

Yes, except I would prefer if they did not choose blue / red (liberal / conservative), even if it's much more likely to have their politics align with the side on the topic, we may have some for whom it does not apply : )

[@beyondthisnormalrealm]

This kind of concept can only work with few things as liberals and conservatives already have a well known and picked color but there’s not colors for things like flat earthers vs scientists etc

[@slopely]

They can define what the colors indicate at the start of the video@@beyondthisnormalrealm

[@Reformed_Thinker]

@@antonyshadowbanned agreed, maybe to fit the format have it be like black on one side then white on the other side then it be gray in the middle.

[@Kingofthenet2]

@@antonyshadowbannedI agree

[@melo-cotton7096]

I love how they bipped Dylan Mulvaney's name, until they suddenly didn't 🤣

[@emg.9246]

Omfg I thought they were speaking on Jazz Jennings. The child that started their medical transition at 7

[@zoeybarter3246]

@@emg.9246 that’s absolutely not true, no one starts medically transitioning at 7, there’s no reason to intervene medically at that age. It’s only when puberty begins that medical intervention becomes necessary.

[@jennam8401]

@@zoeybarter3246 perhaps they meant pubity blockers? This is a form of intervention that is intended at the age of pubity starting or before it. Girls can easily begin menstruations at 8/9

[@raulh5457]

Who is that why would they beep that

[@megamax898]

Dylan won woman of the year and I don’t know why they would bleep Dylan’s name out. I’m avoiding pronouns because to me it seems like this is Dylan’s latest desperate ploy to get clout. He has a history of humiliating and degrading himself for attention.

[@greggreg8118]

Sorry but Kiara was definitely not “undecided” she had a huge liberal bias coming into this 😂

[@kourtnie3609]

Agree 100%. She should be wearing blue and sitting with the other liberals lol.

[@patricialin9045]

Ikr. "I can't agree because someone close to me is trans" is not an argument

[@paullooper1090]

@@patricialin9045 Deep down, "I cannot hurt the feelings of my trans friend, so I will remain liberal on this"...

[@blackdogledzep]

Yeah that was some bull

[@abelpwns713]

Exactly

[@danceforjb]

I used to like when Jubilee would provide a 'fact check' when people throw out random statistics/facts. If you could bring that back in the future, it would help your content a lot!

[@Summer-rp9fb]

Yess they need to do this! It’d get rid of any “facts” that were thrown out during the debate that us, the viewers, could believe as true and lead to even more misinformation.

[@marmar90000]

To be honest, I'm disappointed that they didn't point out the following two things: 1. That the American Psychiatric Association (which publishes the now-aging DSM-5) no longer considers being transgender to be a mental disorder. They just list 'gender dysphoria' which they define as "clinically significant distress or impairment *related to* gender incongruence" (i.e. not the gender incongruence itself, since they recognize that not all trans people live with dysphoria). Similarly, the World Health Organization (which published the 11th edition of the International Classification of Diseases in 2022) no longer considers 'gender incongruence' to be a mental disorder, point blank. 2. That post-mortem and in-vivo studies have consistently found (and are still finding) that the brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with than the brains of the gender they were assigned at birth. This is true even in trans people who have *yet* to undergo any pharmaceuticals or other medical procedures. The understanding here is that one's prenatally-established "brain sex" (which can be different from one's "corporeal sex", since they are hit by sëx hormones at different times during a pregnancy) is what is also also informing one's gender identity.

[@eleccy]

@@marmar90000 1. The APA stated plainly that they reclassified in order to reduce stigma. It's still treated like any other mental disorder with clinical intervention. This was a political act by the APA and I've researched this thoroughly. 2. Give me the DOI of one study that claims this. I've reviewed hundreds of studies and none of them have stated "brains of transgender people are much more similar, functionally and structurally, to the brains of the gender they identify with". In fact the most recent study I reviewed on this concluded a "unique brain phenotype". i.e. specific parts of brain anatomy, some yes, some no. And it's all a nothingburger anyway as that's not a diagnostic criteria, and "trans" is an umbrella term and not the same as suffering from GD.

[@anastasia-fr1gn]

Nah, I’d rather fact check it myself and not depend on this channel.

[@Dustin277]

Yet the middle liberal doesn't car about facts just feelings 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@karen5916]

As a detrans teen I honestly don't even know how this is a question anymore at this point. Children cannot consent.

[@inspiwo]

im trans and children should not have medical transitions. only social.

[@karen5916]

@@inspiwo I agree with you fully. Present how you want, express yourself in whatever way makes you happy, go by a different name, fine. That's all healthy experimentation. But medically transitioning crosses the line big time.

[@justsomerandomname2067]

Children cannot consent, but they can still get the medication that they need. Transition is the medication that some children need.

[@karen5916]

@@justsomerandomname2067 As someone who has lived with clinical, diagnosed gender dysphoria for the past 4 years, it is not the medication that CHILDREN need. Absolutely not. DBT, CBT, and many other psychotherapies have been proven to significantly improve and treat GD. It is actually the recommended treatment for juvenile GD, not medicalization.

[@justsomerandomname2067]

@@karen5916 i think that we should advocate for a system that will try therapy and antidepressants first. And if that doesnt help, and the childs symptoms fit the GD diagnostic criteria better than any other mental illness, then the child should be given the option of HRT and/or blockers if they have reached puberty (with the advice and supervision of doctors ofc)

[@maiaconway7727]

I don’t think it should automatically be separated into liberal vs conservative, it’s an unnecessary divide when there are people all over the political spectrum who agree or disagree on this topic.

[@denzellmovies]

ikr. I don't even know what exactly the undecided people are choosing sides on in the end

[@izzymorales1548]

I was thinking the same thing! They need to stop doing the liberals vs conservative in these debates because it takes away from the topic of discussion. It should be separated between agree vs disagree

[@gobsmr]

Agreed! This just adds more fuel to the “political inaccuracy” fire we’ve been seeing lately.

[@smileyface8057]

Yes! I’m a liberal who doesn’t believe that minors should transition medically! I think if a minor thinks they’re trans they should try to dress up as the other gender, change their pronouns, and see how they feel about changing their gender and then decide as adults if that works out

[@denzellmovies]

@@smileyface8057 that is literally what transitioning is for kids though. They are not eligible for a sex change surgeries until they are 16/18. Everyone agrees that kids shouldn't get bottom surgery, and no one is advocating to change that

[@arashf6094]

Sara and Arthur are both conservatives, but are still clearly different on exactly what their opinions of trans people are. A debate between the two would be killer

[@ArthurCSchaperMR]

I would agree to that.

[@jurgnobs1308]

nah. there is nothing positive to gain from listening to dirt like Arthur. the only thing that leads to is brain rott.

[@alyssamckenzie7714]

Arthur does not represent true conservatives like me and Sara

[@jurgnobs1308]

@@alyssamckenzie7714 how do you define a true conservative?

[@nenechi4ever]

@@jurgnobs1308pee pee caca

[@Takobella]

This is probably the BEST jubilee moderator I’ve ever seen! He needs to do them all This format is cool

[@tomatotoes6436]

That’s because he’s not from Jubilee. He has a yt channel called GEN

[@GEN]

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching

[@kindauncool]

Agreed, I wish they didn't chop it up SO heavily though, and that both sides were more educated on the opposing side's opinions.

[@greenisop6883]

@@GENyou a G

[@55rz55]

@@kindauncool it's only 50 minutes and so many questions to go through tho

[@t.s.6992]

That girl with glasses is NOT undecided😭😭😭

[@jjkkjwhw]

Literally

[@arethasD6belt]

When she said "he" instead of "she" I was dyingggg 😭😭

[@user-tp4bo8iu7p]

She is correct not undecided

[@gregerysstuntdouble2992]

@@user-tp4bo8iu7p pre: argument

[@LocatedLeech]

Completely agree, it was and unfair study.

[@jaredchris8054]

If there’s going to be an “undecided” group, there shouldn’t be any personal biases; the girl whose cousin is trans and is very important to her, I wouldn’t consider her undecided.

[@Sinamitzu]

Exactly

[@Stay_Zerose]

My thought exactly, she was never undecided and she was trying to correct the conservative is evidence that she was not there to form an opinion. Don't forget she self identified as Queer in the video, sorry but thats a bias...

[@mountaindew3201]

She’s been groomed

[@aidanayala2768]

It’s impossible to have a group without personal biases unless you wanna have ai be the undecided group lil bro

[@user-jx7fx8pd4i]

Sara is trans herself yet still conservative. Trans people (and anyone related to a trans person) can still be liberal or conservative.

[@rhyashuler1558]

BRO WHAT? Kiara seriously did not come on here undecided. She literally just states that she couldn’t go to the conservative side in order to not offend her trans cousin. Do not bring her back.

[@Random-sk6hm]

Evelyn wasn't undecided either. She went to conservative on all but one occasions.

[@timmymannies6888]

Her point for the final decision didn't make sense at all, like where are your points? Lol

[@Kingofthenet2]

@@Random-sk6hmI agree

[@ChillWill12]

That’s Al I kept hearing… She annoyed the fck outa me.

[@EpicFandomVogue]

@@Random-sk6hmYou’re incorrect. She remained undecided and also chose liberal in two separate instances.

[@MelieSue]

Dang, Evelyne is so intelligent and well-spoken! Smarter than most adults I’ve met.

[@alphauno6614]

Yeah way more informed and collected regarding her thoughts

[@Lauwit]

Yes but not on every topic

[@2crisp63]

@@Lauwit no one on the planet is on every topic

[@lolar7707]

The moderator did wonderful in this video. Not interrupting and forcing the members to stop the topic due to not reaching a middle ground. Please keep this guy around, his channel just received a new subscriber!

[@GEN]

Thank you so much! Apppreciate you watching

[@ethanmiles20]

@@GEN you the goat 🐐 I pray for your further success and blessings. You work hard at what you do and it can't be easy processing both sides as well as you do. I hope one day I see you doing journalism in my later years telling my kids that you've been legit since day one.

[@biggy_fishy]

Yes best thus far, I like the format too

[@brightshining]

@@GEN Incredible job at judicious and well-researched moderation :)

[@gergie1234]

It was funny when it started to get heated and everyone was raising their voice then the host said “okay, let’s go to the panel.” Lol well done host

[@moffat5914]

"you can talk about statistics and facts all day but i dont care" ......and there we have it folks...feelings over facts

[@Secret-jg1bk]

The bio-Anthropology is what really hit me when she says "assumed gender" smh... At this point the whole trans movement isn't going to stop by any means necessary to facts and concrete evidence at all, which makes a big huge difference at actual evidential proof to biology and any scientific evidential physical proof that can prove them wrong. They just want to try their best to manipulate anything to prove a mental crisis of dysphoria which has nothing to do with reality whatsoever

[@vibes6717]

conservatives never listen to stats and facts

[@Hambone2k]

Yep that’s Typically how they think

[@ronisila3040]

I wish we knew more about how the undecided group was chosen

[@natalyarea]

same

[@madhurimapremkumar2341]

same

[@ana-maria4426]

Same here. I am not really sure how Kiara is undecided and was selected as part of the undecided group. Throughout watching I felt like she already had her view formed and wanted to argue with the Conservative side rather than take in new arguments. Personally, the undecided group should be individuals who are politically neutral or central. It makes more sense that way.

[@ysq724y]

Exactly! I was going to say! After the embarrassing mess that was Blossom/NB chaos where the trans conservatives wiped the floor with the liberals by using logic, seems like an interesting time to insert a new formula that can soften the logic.

[@Unsp0ken99]

​@@ysq724yalmost as if... they had... an agenda. *gasp*

[@KingII_]

Kiara clearly wasn't undecided. She had a side and came on the show to support it till the end. That being said, I don't think because one changed sides midway meant their entire view had changed midway, but rather that on that particular issue they leaned more towards one to the other

[@berserkerrxii5776]

fr

[@cinder7258]

I think Kiara was fine

[@Ryadovoy_Borodin]

@@cinder7258They were supposed to be undecided on the topic and asked who they agreed with after the conversation. She clearly had a liberal bias. She even mentioned that she agreed with the liberal side because she has a trans friend.

[@VoVina111]

that was my worry going in for this concept ... that most people would already come in with their own biases from experiences and whatever media they consume. it'll be very difficult to find someone who is truly unbiased and undecided...

[@danielschmidt2683]

No sh1t. You're dealing with real people, not mindless drones. You're upset because you haven't found someone who will magically fall for the debate bullsh1t. Go cry

[@alteredpoca]

If one side believes in difference between sex and gender and the other side doesn't, I feel like there's hardly a possibility for middle ground

[@petervizzini8239]

There isn't. It's one of the either

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

That's the biggest problem with the trans issue. One side of the issue believes that gender is separate from biological sex, and the other believes that they both coexist. You can't really come to a middleground when the two sides are operating on a completely different foundation.

[@bn09185]

It's not really talking about sex vs. Gender, most of this is about minors transitioning. Most people agree that adults have free reign to do what they want with their body as long as they aren't hurting someone else

[@alteredpoca]

It's not the subject of the discussion, but it's an unavoidable part of the conversation @@bn09185

[@aliahduiker7998]

Ya… we need to clearly define terminology before we can even have this discussion

[@Pinkmercedesbenz]

the girl with the glasses was never undecided she knew which side she was gonna go on each time 😭 next time make sure everyone is open minded and doesn’t just agree with one side

[@dev_mode223]

exactly

[@GohanSSJZ]

Typical conservative comment. "OMG 1 person choose liberal over conservative, even though she went undecided once and conservative once, and 2 went conservative!!!11!!! How in the world can't everyone be conservative1!!!11"

[@Pinkmercedesbenz]

@@GohanSSJZ I am not conservative, I use to be 100% liberal now I’m moderate. Please stop speaking when u don’t even know me ✋😂

[@sknight8621]

to be fair, she was just following logic, basic facts, and reality

[@ellamayo3851]

@@sknight8621well it’s kind of fallacious of you to assume u know what she based her decisions on when u aren’t inside her mind. whether u agree or not, she admit she has someone close to her who is trans and that is definitely going to sway her opinions.

[@sonerkamer2678]

Bringing Sara for this Middle Ground is such a smart decision. She was the most grounded in the previous Trans Conservative vs Trans Liberals discussion.

[@MustyUnderboob]

Nobody is questioning the huge wave of dudes like "Sara" who are ex military who have decided to suddenly transition.

[@sharonlindsay7097]

What are you questioning?

[@zeals936]

I agree. She came with facts. Not feelings.

[@radioqueenbee7008]

Sara is awesome.

[@lostineggsaisle]

I liked her too

[@amanda.noel.art.]

shoutout to Sara for sitting on the conservative side and speaking to the reality of the situation at hand while still remaining kind, empathetic, and compassionate.

[@ysq724y]

Agreed

[@inspiwo]

fr at least she wasnt BLATANTLY BEING RUDE like arthur

[@MsRuntz]

yeah but how are you transgender and standing with people who are downplaying and talking crap about your whole identity lmao weird.@@inspiwo

[@rosentickan]

i think she detransitioned@@MsRuntz

[@wig.snatcher]

@@MsRuntz nobody does that get out of your echo chamber

[@mrxmitus8134]

That one "undecided" lady definitely came in decided. She knew people, had personal stories, etc

[@7eyesopenwide168]

Typical of leftists. Deception and dishonesty.

[@stephenblasco8557]

💯

[@nicholaso4302]

As always.

[@thefish2665]

That is facts, I was like "shes not undecided lol"

[@qasmb1546]

How TF is this even a question to be asked?! People have lost their minds.

[@fabien994]

thanks!

[@juju-kn6rx]

chill lmao. wait till you find out minors have been having non gender related plastic surgery for YEARS now 🤯🤯🤯

[@LamisBest]

@@juju-kn6rx so that means that its okay? what kind of logic is this

[@pffpffovich2398]

@@juju-kn6rx wtf? Plastic surgery for minors, what is that South Korea or US?

[@root937]

Yes, they have. The world is facing a mental health crisis

[@collinmccookcomposer]

I like this format with the undecided group. It really helped to have a logical third party who was able to poke holes in the other groups arguments.

[@alishayin5267]

And it was great to have an actual moderator that didn't favor a certain bias

[@GEN]

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching

[@lilmissmonsterrr]

It would've been better to have three undecided though. They only had two, because one of them was very much decided.

[@kwaviddong7875]

@@lilmissmonsterrryup it’s clear the liberal girl already had her mind set

[@MomoHitsujiOwO]

@@lilmissmonsterrrI agree with you there, we truly needed an actual 3 person group that is undecided. Hopefully next time, there will really be a full unbiased side.

[@jaellycookie]

Socially yes, medically no

[@darwinfinche9959]

Simple to the point and accurate

[@9tailedbeast392]

Exactly what I think

[@kayissaa]

💯

[@HopeWren]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Goldenwhitewings]

No for both

[@MelaniePhoenix]

Gen was an excellent choice as moderator. So nice to have the conversation remain on topic and in control. A lot more information was shared in this format.

[@GEN]

Thank you appreciate you watching!!

[@Sonic-gy7kq]

Antidepressants will never work unless you do. I was on them for years. Nothing changed. Ever. Until I changed what I was doing in my life and finding what made me happy outside of abusing drugs. Getting my ADHD/OCD addressed. Going to therapy, work, and doing the things that made me happy. Is how I got happy.

[@artandme_]

But what workes for you doesn't work for everyone. Some people do experience benefits from anti-depressants

[@Sonic-gy7kq]

@@artandme_ Research doesn't lie, especially the antidepresant research. Many showing less than 50% efficasy. Which in the pharma industry is considered to be a failure. Yet they cost fractions of pennies to manufacture and when people try to quit they have horrible side effects. Not trying to snare anyone off of them, but I was on them and it helped nothing. Im happier then ever off of them. I had to make real life changes. Hoping some clinically ineffective pill to change my socioeconomic circumstances is absolutely ridiculous.

[@imnotnotgameiacmaniac5327]

the point of antidepressants is by defintion to reduce depression on their own. if they aren't doing that then you should stop taking them

[@sd7785]

They work for some people but not for others

[@Sonic-gy7kq]

@@sd7785 They didnt work for me... you have to work for yourself. They didn't do anything for me. But I wasn't waiting around doing nothing but hoping these placebos will change your life. Only you can.

[@Mr26muel]

Kiara is literally the liberal stereotype how is that undecided?

[@TheSnatchbuckler]

Yeah her mind was already made up. She did switch to the middle on sex ed, but I think that was more performative

[@lanam6459]

I’m pretty liberal but I was undecided. Being liberal doesn’t mean you automatically believe minors should be allowed to transition?

[@coastercookieYT]

@@lanam6459^

[@ryanrogers8631]

@@lanam6459 where did you land on the topics then? because if you play the pronoun game then we can likely predict where you stand with a high probability of success.

[@user-xt4ks1nu6h]

@@ryanrogers8631 99.9% probability

[@gianniclaud]

Evelyne is wise beyond her years. I'm genuinely impressed by her.

[@Superbatmanbro]

👏🏿👏🏿😎

[@stephaniemartinez5576]

Kiara was not undecided. She clearly had a bias and was annoying to have on the panel. She was going off pure emotion.

[@snailcheeseyoutube]

she literally went to the conservative once and decided as well...did you watch the video or just the first 5 minutes? you wont talk about the other girl who went to the conservative side all but once...don't be a hypocrite

[@stephaniemartinez5576]

@@snailcheeseyoutube Yeah, I just watched five minutes (insert eye roll) . The other girl had logic and reasoning behind her decisions while Kiara used primarily emotions. Kiara even said she knows someone who is trans, which clearly demonstrated her bias. She couldn’t even repeat talking points correctly. Stop being ignorant.

[@Cutie..Patootie]

Why is it wrong to go off emotion though? It's a fact that human emotions influence decisions. Also you're never gonna get a purely neutral person on one of these panels no matter what.

[@ReallyOriginalname]

@@Cutie..Patootie If all decision went based off emotion* the world would have ended, logic is needed. This is why you can request the court to change your judge if they are just being emotional or impartial towards you. Edit put logic instead of emotion.

[@archivefamily53]

It's funny how you call out other people's bias then clearly expose yours, again I looked at this video and analyzed both sides. The liberal side definitely could've cited accurate facts and it costed them the argument not to do so, as much as it may suck to realize this transitioning does work (minors can't physically transition in the U.S) look up facts..they just postpone puberty they can choose to transition once they're 18

[@kit1063]

I’m someone who socially transitioned at 15, medically at 18. The issue is so complex, and unfortunately we don’t have the data to fully support either side. That being said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a social transition. But ultimately, this should be looked at on a case by case basis. Every individual is different and varies in the severity of their dysphoria and how they cope with it.

[@battledroid7628]

I don’t feel like there is anything wrong with socially transitioning, that is easily reversible, has no long-lasting damages, while also giving a trial run basically. What I do have an issue with is surgeries, which have been addressed, but also puberty blockers. Both are harmful long term, and I don’t care how many people use no evidence and say that puberty blockers cause no long term damage, because stopping our bodies largest period of change does not go without consequences.

[@serabi_]

​puberty blockers take several years to cause any noticeable harm, which said harm goes away shortly after stopping the blockers. Puberty blockers ARE NOT something you take for decades, which is common sense. You take them to stop puberty then when you and your medical provider are ready you take the respective hormone and force the opposite puberty that way. As for surgeries it's genuinely such a small portion of the population that are even eligible for bottom surgery before they're 18. It's to the point where it'd be more relevant to talk about stopping children from getting struck by lightning each year. You're talking about tens of people

[@Byebyemeow]

In what world is Kiara "Undecided"? She has strong personal opinions about the subject as she says her friend is Trans. Quit trolling

[@whatisnext2955]

Damn lmao

[@Kingofthenet2]

I agree, the only undecided one in my mind is the guy in the white

[@jamesbrooks8255]

Well I’m assuming she was undecided on whether minors should transition rather than trans existence/treatment

[@ThesaurusToblerone]

Probably just undecided on whether minors should medically transition. But who knows if they came up with the title after it was filmed?

[@user-ig6wi1oo2g]

Yes however they did say that there something like part of the comments section sure they can have their own bias but they're not decided in one side entirely also they are technically undecided cause the decided team influences their opinion

[@PurpleMonadoBlaze]

The moderator did a much better job at this then they did at the Trans Liberal Vs Trans Conservatives Debate despite both debates being filmed on the same day.

[@tomatotoes6436]

True but that’s because it’s not the same one and GEN doesn’t work for Jubilee

[@GEN]

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching

[@DgardsGaming]

@@tomatotoes6436Should do this more often, have, more people like Gen as moderators.

[@barbrothers2]

because that moderator had an obvious anti-conservative bias and it showed even though the conservatives slayed the debate regardless of their attempts at being silenced.

[@baz3575]

@@barbrothers2 Yeah, that Indian woman is hella racist against whites and conservatives. It is kinda wild to see how racist many western born people of Asian heritage are towards white while ironically exclusively dating them. It really shows how being trans and racist are social contagions and trends of the times.

[@mahatmaghandi4288]

Jubilee should permanently hire Gen for hosting, he did an awesome job.

[@DONOP06]

Although I think the undecided group wasn’t 100% undecided, putting this group and a moderator in the vids made these a lot better to watch

[@mustpavlovedogs]

Sara was definitely the best debater. She didn't get emotional or judgmental, she didn't bring religion into it, and even though she had plenty of personal experience, she relied on studies and data to support her points. She also didn't make any snide remarks or roll her eyes or make faces, which are annoying and distracting. And from what I've seen of her in previous debates, she seems to be extremely knowledgable and would be the person I trust the most. THANK YOU SARA (and thank you for your service)

[@lilmissmonsterrr]

Sara rocks, always a class act.

[@2002yannick1]

LOSER! tomato tomato tomato !

[@grayfilms8751]

I think you should bring religion to this

[@LukaDialogue]

Why do you think religion shouldn’t be brought up in this? I’m geniunely curious as I can’t see that standpoint

[@grayfilms8751]

yea idk, religion as a big take on this@@LukaDialogue

[@ricardskurba]

Kiara definitely was undecided on the trans issue 😂

[@TurtleChad1]

I think every normal person should understand that kids can't make such drastic choices at a young age.

[@GreatestYouTuberOfAllTime]

Sich? Wtf is sich? You are sich a clown. There is no sich thing as sich. It's such. Guys we got clown over here.

[@ethandollarhide7943]

Does that include being too young to know that they're Heterosexual or Christian?

[@amischneider6395]

They can know it but the shouldn't be able to sign for example a contract that they will be and live that way for the rest of their lifes

[@ethandollarhide7943]

@@amischneider6395 If y'all actually cared about it that much than you would be out there trying to get ALL surgeries banned for minors.

[@blitzbc5689]

@@ethandollarhide7943 The difference is that you can one day decide that you no longer want to be Christian. You can do it instantly actually. You can also decide your sexuality whenever you want. But you cannot change your hormones and build back years of physical development whenever you want, that takes a very long time to change if it is even possible. Not mad at you btw, but your argument does not hold up.

[@Rinayye]

Arthur looks like eustace from courage the cowardly dog

[@radioliciousoffline]

you can be conservative or liberal, disagree or agree, but nothing absolves you from being respectful.

[@Kingofthenet2]

So true

[@_Cetarial]

Conservatives and liberals would physically attack eachother without a moderator. They simply cannot be in the same room together.

[@duneeaaasha]

@@_CetarialIt depends on the person tbh, there are extremes on both sides and even then there are people cable of not getting too emotional about the issues.

[@MarcoAce13]

Arthur apparently doesn’t know that

[@corinneskitchen]

Yes but liberals think respect = compelled speech and conservatives think respect = free speech.

[@effys7810]

Saying gender dysphoria is a mental disorder should not be considered bad, as it is not a judgment, it is merely stating a fact. It's the same as saying people with OCD or depression or anxiety have a mental disorder, there's nothing wrong with having these illnesses. Anyone who suffer from these mental illnesses deserve treatment and care and understanding.

[@ali_1307]

i agree with u but like the 2 conservative guys just kept trying to act like trans people don’t exist in front of all these trans people and kept acting like as if they went through gender dysphoria and knew exactly what can cure it. their idea of a “mental disorder” is just them saying that a couple therapy sessions can heal it and all of trans ppl transitioned as a “trend” . i think that’s why the other side disagreed. but i mean sara was the only respectful one from the conservatives and idk why would they bring those totally transphobic guys into a discussion like that.

[@janakugel3456]

@@ali_1307he’s is not transphobic - he knows transpeople physically exist. He doesn’t agree with your new definitions of things. Transpeople are humans, they exist. They believe to be in the wrong body. they exist. He disagrees with the treatment and the assumptions made based on those facts.

[@janakugel3456]

He is not afraid ( phobic ) of transpeople. He doesn’t hate them, he thinks they are mistaken about the treatment options and their beliefs. The sentence “ he doesn’t believe they exist” is so weird

[@ali_1307]

@@janakugel3456 idk if u exactly know what transphobia means , it’s not ‘afraid’ , it’s the hate and the unacceptance of transgenderism. and by the sentence “he thinks trans ppl don’t exist” i mean that he thinks that gender dysphoria and trans ppls’ journey is a delusion and that nothing like that rlly exists naturally, it’s just a trend. that’s what i mean.

[@eulehund99]

​​@@ali_1307eh you can heavily depate what "transphobic" is. Does only hating on trans people mean you're transphobic? Or is having a different opinion about the gender social concept as a whole, while leaving trans people alone transphobic as well? I personally find it problematic if people consider the second option transphobic as well, as it hinders any development in those specific fields. Remember only because people criticized the idea of the existence of 2 genders did we get to today. That's why I think constructive criticism to anything is not wrong.

[@eluna34]

You guys should add a fact checker to each episode that red, green or yellow flags any statements that are claimed to be 'citations'

[@bingustime]

If I remember correctly the swedish studies the guy in glasses cited are the ones usually used by conservatives in a disingenuous manner. The studies did research on trans kids who experienced bullying due to transitioning. The study AIMED to show that social acceptance is a strong variable in the mental health of trans individuals. Though sadly, I don't imagine Jubilee could cover all this in a tiny box on the corner of the screen

[@dagnurd]

No, it works better without editorialiizing, and the idea that a fact checker is actually neutral is just hilariously wrong.

[@eluna34]

@@dagnurd and yet there are whole organizations that fact check quite well - no one is completely neutral but people can get pretty damn close.

[@bpj1805]

@@eluna34 These whole "organizations" are partisan hacks. Their modus operandus is: presidential candidate Xclaims, "I walk my dog most days"; "fact-checking" organization F, that is hostile to X, responds, "X has never walked their dog on a Sunday. Verdict: mostly false".

[@pandaakacheekclapper8069]

That would raise the question, who would be the arbiter of truth. Who would fact check the fact checker?

[@ellabergen9525]

9:59 why was bro most embarrassed that he deadnamed X as Twitter

[@evieemaviss]

lmaoo literally

[@dipfuk]

Kiara being undecided is hilarious 😂

[@Random-sk6hm]

Just like that other girl pretending she's undecided when she's clearly a conservative

[@ChillWill12]

@@Random-sk6hmthe girl-guy?

[@oscarcervantes6403]

She’s undecided, but midway through is playing advocate for someone she knows? Like come on, stand for your values.

[@Random-sk6hm]

@@ChillWill12 ???

[@noamyosha6856]

I’m so glad they had Gen as the host, he deserves it so much!

[@theguntersadopt3268]

He did amazing. He remained unbias

[@Kingofthenet2]

He was amazing

[@GEN]

Appreciate it! Thanks for watching

[@noamyosha6856]

@@GEN big fan bro

[@NoopyP]

yes it was such a great surprise

[@tasha3757]

Evelyn’s so mature and eloquent for her age! I was shocked was 17!

[@captainsmoka9864]

She is like above and beyond smart.

[@lesliei]

Like most 17 year olds

[@guotyr2502]

Wouldn't go there

[@jammydoughnuts]

She seems autistic to me, I’m wondering if anyone else was picking up on that?

[@zoeybarter3246]

She just speaks well, she clearly doesn’t actually understand the issue & this “debate” certainly did her no favours in that regard.

[@NiqVFancy]

Evelyne is absolutely amazing. I hope she goes far in life.

[@zeldeure1765]

Arthurs pretty cool too. I love how he just states it how it is, and seems very passionate about what he talks about

[@justsomeguywithoutagirl4956]

@@zeldeure1765 Snowflakes get hurt by him lmao

[@daysliveon]

Unfortunately the problem with this is that the undecided group wasn't really undecided. It's not your fault though. Finding people that haven't thought at all about these widespread societal battleground issues would be really difficult.

[@itsLantik]

Yeah I feel like they chose very passionate individuals for the undecided group, which is fine considering it's probably hard to get applicants or volunteers that aren't already well versed, but I feel like I expected them to just be average Joes, and I feel like that would make for a better environment. If we got average people to decide, they wouldn't have as many biases like the girl that had a trans friend.

[@ali_1307]

i think they were undecided about whether minors can transition or no.

[@2thezaza]

@@itsLantikthey could do a social media check on future undecided participants, if they look truly unrelated to the topic and has no takes they would be better.

[@nala6846]

Agreed. I really liked the discussion this episode but the undecided group wasn't needed nor added much in my opinion. They just need to do middle ground with ACTUAL moderation like Gen did here.

[@lilmissmonsterrr]

It's not very difficult to use a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel in a debate about trans/gender politics. It's really not.

[@sophiaisabelle01]

Minors should be supervised. They're still quite young to be making such big decisions without being first consulted. They can't be rushing into things knowing that they will potentially regret it later.

[@ZackieDookie]

🗣️🗣️

[@inspiwo]

PREACH (im trans)

[@gillianomotoso328]

Yes exactly.

[@emmapalm3301]

🙌🏻

[@GreatestYouTuberOfAllTime]

Oh hi barbie

[@bendrix1932]

The moderator helped reduce the heated arguments and let each side express their views. Great format.

[@larssrensen4353]

"We trust children to prepare our food for us at fast food restaurants" so why don't we let them transition? Gosh I'm lost.

[@ArthurCSchaperMR]

That makes 2 of us! I nearly fell out of my chair with some of the responses that they gave me.

[@braxbro7602]

Because they'll still get your order wrong lmao

[@multitudeofbitches5455]

I think it was more so about picking and choosing what children are “responsible” enough to do because how can they become legally emancipated, or employed, or behind a vehicle but they can’t make a fundamental decision about who they are internally. We may not know what we want to be when we grow up but we know who we are instinctively and I think that’s just wrong to put certain restrictions on kids in the name of discrimination

[@daenerystargaryen1440]

I like the concept of undecided, but the process of choosing who is undecided needs improvement. Kiara seemed to have a bias.

[@Kingofthenet2]

Yep

[@nevadag606]

We all have biases even if we don’t have a set opinion on certain things, it’s impossible to find a completely unbiased individual.

[@BDC_BRZY]

Yeah. We might need lighter or less talked about topics for it to truly set itself apart from middle ground

[@jesusbarrera6916]

@@nevadag606 it's posible to find someone without a trans relative....

[@SatansFire]

Liberal, conservative, center, none- we can all agree the last Jubilee was an embarrassment and an example to how NOT to host a debate. THIS however, excellently done. GEN did a great job as a mediator and both sides had their time, excellent points and above all maturity

[@cinnamondan4984]

What was the last one about?

[@snakesghost7817]

@@cinnamondan4984 I think it was the one with Blair White and the other transgender people. Trans conservatives vs Trans liberals. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[@nbaviis]

@@snakesghost7817yep the trans liberals were literally the worst

[@cinnamondan4984]

@@snakesghost7817 I saw clips. That was crazy. I see you like MGS from you name. Snatcher and Policenaughts are worth a look.

[@snakesghost7817]

@@cinnamondan4984 Thanks, will check it out

[@user-hm2xi1kx6d]

Hats off to Evelyne who was actually there to learn and be objective, while asking real questions not based on feelings.

[@ROEnotEOR]

Feelings are also important to make important decisions. It's what makes us human. And rationality is not the only path for truth. Stop demonizing emotions because they are a fundamental part of who we are and the human experience, and they guide us in important instances of our lives.

[@gobsmr]

@@ROEnotEORNo one demonized feelings?? Lmao calm down keyboard warrior

[@ROEnotEOR]

@@gobsmr the moment you state that "learning and being objective" implicates not considering or basing your arguments on feelings, yes, you're demonizing them. You can't understand the trans issue without taking into account feelings. It's a fundamental aspect to experience and consider in order to be "objetive" and actually learn.

[@gobsmr]

@@ROEnotEOR Nah dude. That’s not objectivism then.

[@realskydiver777]

@@gobsmr i will never understand this arguement. feelings matter. if feelings didnt matter, then a lot of terrible, horrible things would be ok bc feelings dont matter. (like bullying or catcalling)

[@donman256]

States with no sex ed in school statistically have the highest rates of teen pregnancy

[@STIRFRYcommenter]

What does that have to do with this

[@Yassgirly]

Evelyn is so bright & outstanding. Very impressed by her especially with the fact that she’s only 17.

[@dants2444]

She so pretty

[@BobRoss-vz4it]

I hope collage doesn’t brainwash her

[@Random-sk6hm]

@@BobRoss-vz4it Maybe you need to attend college if you can't even spell it correctly

[@leanzagilbert6933]

@@Random-sk6hm we got a grammar national socialist here 😂

[@Random-sk6hm]

@@leanzagilbert6933 I'm not American but I appreciate you trying 😂

[@leticiayoshimi]

i wish you guys would do a "fact check" with each statement

[@Kingofthenet2]

Yea

[@merchant_of_kek5697]

It can get a little iffy doing that. Probably best to allow the speakers to provide them with sources which then they list or edit into the video.

[@DD-rh2sz]

Facts can still be interpreted in different ways. Jubilee doesn't want to take one side and say one side is factual and one isn't. Theres often nuance in the middle.For example, if black men are arrested at a higher rate than white men that could be 100% fact, but does that mean it is 100% fact the reason is racism, no. If that were true then you could relate the fact that men are arrested at a higher rate than women, but that would mean the only reason could be that police are also sexist.

[@BNezzy]

the lefts entire argument would be destroyed if that was the case.

[@smilejesuslovesyou8108]

It wouldn’t matter who are the fact checkers?

[@idpriv]

40:37 Evelyne speaking facts about the Western mindset and I love her for that!!! She and Sara were my favorites in this video!

[@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe]

Thank you so much for saying that! That's something I think we in the west really need to be more aware of, that the world is so much bigger than just us and our culture. There's space for all of us in this era of globalisation, we just need to be more willing to hear and make space for those who differ from us. All cultures are beautiful!

[@jesss101]

as a child of immigrants, i highly disagree. if someone wants to move to a country, they should be prepared to integrate with the values of that country. if they want to keep all their traditional mindsets, why move? why bring their children to a new country and then demonize the values of that country? assimilation is highly important to immigrants and children of immigrants. and i'm not saying that in relation to the trans issue. but any american values.

[@achillesxiong92]

​@@ShesEvelyneGoldsmytheI'm glad you called that out. Most of the world is actually conservative and the parents usually have control. Especially in the East. That mother was way off on this topic.

[@Shinesart]

​@@jesss101The thing is, they might not want to move but have to. For example, what if the country they're living is in civil war where normal livelihood are not possible. I don't know the reason your parents moved but many families in my country tried to move overseas because it is near impossible to make living especially in areas of conflicts. They will have to accept the law and regulations of the country they moved but might still want to keep their culture and beliefs at least in their own family.

[@alexarobinson2850]

Evelyne is the hero here! She really thought through each prompt and had some great thoughts to add.

[@Mariah-fn4sb]

Gen was an exceptional moderator, Evelyne asked such great questions and was so mature, and it was so great to see Sarah brought back! Great debate.

[@Random-sk6hm]

Agreed, as a liberal, Sarah was the only conservative I enjoyed because she was well-spoken and wasn't rude. She heard what everyone had to say and didn't make discourteous facial expressions or interrupt when others were talking.

[@zoeybarter3246]

Transphobic nonsense for an audience of cis people who don’t know any better. The moderator very clearly had transphobic views of his own. Please educate yourself.

[@ahaaha8109]

@@zoeybarter3246 What are you even talking about? What transphobic views did either portray? Don't use words like that so loosely before it loses its meaning

[@radiofloyd2359]

​@@ahaaha8109the questions were framed in a way that pretty explicitly suggests transphobic conclusions over trans affirming ones.

[@heretichazel]

@@ahaaha8109 one of the conservatives literally insisted on misgendering the liberal trans woman

[@cepillo310]

Kiara was never undecided Evelyne was truly undecided Christian was truly undecided Edit: Everyone trying to assume my bias/opinion from just this comment shows that discourse in this country is fu**ed. I made a comment and it was mostly accurate, it was so Jubilee maybe becomes aware to pick truly nuanced people.

[@RS-xb9lo]

Kind of funny that the only people you thought were unbiased were the exact two people who had picked the conservative side in the end. Sounds like you were never undecided yourself.

[@JesusisKing77_7]

@@RS-xb9loExcept that they were only conservative on the whole basis of transitioning minors. They never discussed other views which they can identity more liberal with. Also, Kiara was clearly heavily staying on the liberal spectrum of each questions while the other two switched sides every question. I don’t see how you can’t perceive that. Way to show your bias, congratulations.

[@RS-xb9lo]

@@JesusisKing77_7 There's a difference between completely undecided and already having a bit of an idea on their thoughts on the matter. If you're looking for a show which throws in people who don't even understand the situation, then this is not it, and you won't find it, either. I already knew who out of the undecided would be on which side in the end based on the very first discussion, it wasn't that hard to see that they already had an ounce of a viewpoint on this matter. This original comment just shows their own bias, because Kiara did in fact move to the conservative side for one of the discussions, maybe if you paid attention you would've realized that she moved around across the spectrum just like the other two. Every single undecided already had biases, you can't get rid of that when going into any discussion on anything.

[@JesusisKing77_7]

@@RS-xb9lo key word: “heavily.” Please be better at making distinctions instead of stating that I didn’t pay attention.

[@SherbertLomon]

@@JesusisKing77_7exactly. And it wasn’t only evident in the switching of sides but their actual positions/points. They provided balanced viewpoints that neither the conservatives nor the liberals had mentioned. That shows they were true free thinkers.

[@byekitty5153]

The last trans discussion was a hot mess. Jubilee did not fail to disappoint with this new format of middle ground. The moderator was amazing, unbiased, and I like how he challenged both sides to expand on their points and fill the holes in their reasoning.

[@0v3rgr0wn]

“did not fail to disappoint” doesn’t make sense with the rest of your comment. Think about it

[@Random-sk6hm]

@@0v3rgr0wn I think they meant to say ''did not disappoint'' lol

[@neofaktion]

Lol "did not fail to disappoint"

[@realskydiver777]

erm ackshually@@0v3rgr0wn

[@MrMelonsz]

Jubilee never fails to disappoint! :D

[@-pinkbutterfly-6972]

The Santa reference really drove the point home. I would add that even teenagers don't understand the consequences of their choices, and that is perfectly okay and normal.

[@AnnaMarieCameron]

Calling it a mental illness isn't a bad thing. I'm mentally ill due to my anxiety and I'm okay with being called mentally ill. Being mentally ill isn't a bad thing when you get help. It does wonders and I wish I didn't wait until my 20s to get help when I suffered for 2 years prior. There's a lot things that people don't know that anixety can do to you. Its not just an anxious or scared disorder. It made me see and feel things that wasn't there. I don't know why saying you are mentally ill is a bad thing.

[@andra_red]

This. So many want to break the stigma of mental illnesses and show that it is okay. However, at the same time those people don’t want to have a mental illness label in their records.

[@azekko]

Gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness though

[@melitajay]

I think in this context it's important because the question is should people get physical solutions to mental illness.

[@AnnaMarieCameron]

@@melitajay it should always start with mental solutions first. Its a mental disorder and then go from there. There's a bad stigma around mental health in general. It needs to change.

[@stevenfoster9402]

Kiara was very much not "undecided." Her opinions were solidified long before coming to set. Let's work on our casting questions, Jubilee.

[@Shekwhdkwlna]

Jubilee doesn’t care. They want the world to think being liberal is the norm

[@uslph.]

Everyone has opinions Steven. If you were paying attention, you'd notice there was a title to the video, that's what the undecided group is undecided about. The undecided group is not people with 0 opinions at all that are here to just absorb all information at face value.

[@emmajeanjumpinbean]

You’re just mad that she’s liberal leaning. Big cope or stay mad no one cares

[@LilianaGarcia-yi6qg]

She formulated her opinion based on feelings and family member’s experience.

[@arachnid33]

I thought the other two were so well cast. They were very thoughtful and genuinely on the fence. I'm not a fan of the emotional argument given that she has to always agree with everything her trans family member says. Think for yourself. Would you say that if you were debating religion and one of your family members was a christian or an atheist and you just used that as your reasoning for everything? It's ridiculous and a waste of a potentially interesting perspective, even if they would have chosen someone more liberal leaning.

[@joshtm1900]

Although the "undecided group" was interesting to have, they were not "undecided", but rather already had a certain opinion on the topics. I think it would be better to have people within the "undecided group" that only evaluate what they've heard without regarding their own arguments and opinions.

[@TyranBatten]

They just needed to do a better job at vetting for people who are actually pretty close to neutral in their opinions on the subject.

[@lilmissmonsterrr]

Yes, if would've been much better if the undecided folks were actually undecided 🤪 The only one who felt truly undecided and neutral was the guy. He seemed like he was in a position of taking in both sides fairly and analyzing them with somewhat unbiased logic.

[@lilmissmonsterrr]

​@stinky9067it's not very difficult to choose a person who doesn't have a super close trans cousin to represent an undecided panel on trans/gender politics.

[@iRobins.]

@@lilmissmonsterrr That's true, though there aren't many people capable of veering outside of their own opinions like the OG comment is vouching for, as opinions about serious topics tend to be rooted in a persons value system and typically results in someone either becoming angry due to the perceived devaluation of their sense of self (opinion) or the inability to view a perspective outside of one's own. Very few people analyze their own thoughts with intense consideration, even fewer analyze the thoughts of others. it may be easier to straight up find someone that hasn't built an in depth opinion on this topic.

[@isaiasrijos7375]

@@lilmissmonsterrr I actually think about it the opposite way. The only DECIDED person was the girl with the glasses. She was clearly liberal and could not separate herself from her own pov. The other two were awesome at being objective.

[@Peace12105]

Two children that wanted to transition..there’s something wrong with that lady’s parenting..

[@denzellmovies]

Scientists believe there is a genetic component to developing gender dysphoria. So it's really not that weird to have multiple kids who are trans

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@denzellmoviesit’s not genetic If you have a genetic predisposition that makes you have “gender dysphoria” Wouldn’t this be a genetic disease since the comorbidity is so high ?

[@mrnorthz9373]

​@@denzellmoviesscientists also believed having overcrowded teeth was 100% genetic

[@denzellmovies]

@@mrnorthz9373 so because scientists were mistaken once you dismiss any scientific theory you don't like?

[@heathermarie3672]

I’m glad there’s a moderator there now. Also, shout out to Sara for being the voice of kindness, reasoning, and compassion yet again!

[@SicilianAmericanDreams]

I'm glad Sara is back! He did great in the blair white episode too

[@dream-standan5488]

@@SicilianAmericanDreams…?

[@SicilianAmericanDreams]

@@dream-standan5488 (The first time I saw Sara in something was the jubilee episode featuring Blair white they recently did)

[@cinder7258]

sara was not reasonable

[@winxboyy]

@@cinder7258 how so

[@slicedice4807]

I like how they censored Dylan Mulvaney's name the first couple of times, but then got tired and gave up. To be fair though we all know who they were talking about.

[@victoria4]

I had no idea who it was until the first error so I’m kind of sad that wasn’t consistent

[@vintagesonofab]

i was 100% sure they were talking about bruce jenner when they bleeped it :))

[@averystevens1606]

As a queer person, this topic getting real tiring ... minors should only consent when THEY ARE OF AGE. They need to make an informed choice. They can always medically transition after 18.

[@SicilianAmericanDreams]

They don't want to go thru puberty of their born gender is what it is but they should because alot of them will grow out of it and accept themselves

[@justjasonk3998]

Yes!

[@hannahrachelxo2281]

Yes!

[@Kingofthenet2]

I agree

[@anastasiamcilvoy4571]

Nah dog if a medical and psychiatric doctor says it’s okay then it’s okay they’re professionals 👍

[@prime12602]

If people can’t differentiate between sex and gender, it’s not worth debating.

[@ryanthomas9306]

It’s hard to debate someone who doesn’t understand what a disorder or mental illness is

[@Lilithotw]

@@ryanthomas9306 exactly like you.

[@noticedruid4985]

It's because there is a fundamental disagreement on it. It's not a consensus that they are separate. One side fundamentally disagrees with that.

[@ReapR1Actual]

Since when did sex and gender mean something different? That's absolutely hilarious that we make these things up then live by them like gospel.

[@deo1107]

It's because that's also opinion based

[@marmaladegirI]

I would love to see Evelyne back for future debates she made such great points while remaining respectful and genuinely hearing what both sides have too say. Christian did a great job too and of course Sara did her thing❤

[@BruhImAGirl]

If depression is a mental illness and includes self destructive behaviour, how is gender dysphoria not classified as one?

[@4651adri]

It is a disorder. They just put it in a category of its own and treating it with an 'affirmative' approach, which is not therapy at all.

[@champigranja1179]

If gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness, why do they need surgery and medication to treat it?

[@oooooba8343]

even body dysmorphia is considered one

[@igortroska2635]

being a kpop stan is a mental illness

[@yourlocallesbian6448]

because it makes more money to let people transition then help them mentally

[@willnolder]

I just want to shout out Evelyne for being such a great example! She doesn’t choose sides based on circumstance or feeling. She is what we lack in our society full stop. 🙏 there’s still hope!

[@cj4088]

Kiara was never undecided. She even said that someone close to her is trans wow. They need to verify that these people really are undecided.

[@A_ngelle_]

Minors are still growing and developing every day. Im pretty independent about my beliefs and ideologies, but i think its dangerous to let children to transition at such a young age because that could mess with their anatomy in their early adult life. If a minor feels more like this or that, then they can feel that way, but i dont think they should get any procedures or surgeries done until they become more mature or an adequate adult age (18+)

[@ysq724y]

Agreed!

[@nualawillman8735]

They don’t though, minors transitioning is limited to name, pronouns and dress, and well as possibly puberty blockers with the supervision of a doctor. On rare occasions you might get a breast reduction but cisgender girls may also do that if advised by a doctor.

[@uslph.]

Puberty messes with their early adult life more, you should know that. You don't really care about the children at all.

[@goofyahhhhhhh6131]

@@uslph. their body was designed for puberty.

[@blankifyme]

​@nualawillman8735 nope. Surgeries in minors are happening more often nowadays. Look up Jazz Jennings' whose MtF genital transition at age 17 is posted here on YT. Anyway, even in the general population, we are becoming more superficial than ever before. For example, all the young people getting BBL (Brazilian butt lift) even though it has led to complications for many, and even death for some.

[@khaiahmann9192]

Medically.. absolutely not. The fact that you can’t even drink until your 21 or get a tattoo till your 18.. why would a major decision such as this be allowed. Maturity is under developed as well. So no. I personally wouldn’t allow my children to do that. Or child. If they wanted to dress more masculine appearing or feminine appearing, that’s perfectly fine. I wholly believe in self expression and I think that’s appropriate until they’re of age to make their own decisions.

[@Taylor_mamaof2]

@@ShadowIsABabysounds like something a pedophile would say too. Just saying. 😬

[@matts5164]

If society is more accepting of gender non-conforming individuals, the rate of children identified as trans will drop.

[@BeWaReJay]

@@ShadowIsABaby Source: trust me bro

[@mckinnagwen3798]

@@ShadowIsABabywhat??? as a person in my 20s WITH A CHILD i was 100% not more mature as a child. there is no way i should’ve been able to make a permanent decision about ANYTHING regarding my body as a minor. If someone let me shave my head at 13 i would’ve and 100% regretted it.

[@thischannellefttorot925]

​@@ShadowIsABabyGroomers lead by the same narrative, don't get yourself tangled up in that mess

[@KillTheCupcakes]

Im confused why experts on the subject aren’t being brought in to bring up facts and fact checks, rather than just opinions.

[@xxxxxxxyyyyyyy]

100%

[@theoneandonlybosable]

I kind of disagree - the whole point of this series is to compare two biases.

[@likelylikewise]

Arthur is such a hypocrite. He claims his views come from an ethical standpoint.. but then demonstrates that actually he has a complete lack of empathy. After Tammy tells her story about both her children, he totally ignores it and starts digging into the semantics, he doesn't even look at her. Watch how he corrects Kiara twice - he's getting a little kick out of making her amend her language. Is this not the exact behaviour he claims to condemn?

[@canhkhoahoang7395]

at least for every argument that he makes, he states it with a fact or a real-life story unlike the liberal side which just full of opinions but barely any facts or examples stated

[@nannerz1994]

Both him and Sarah jumped to the assumption that the government or Medicaid would be paying for someone's transition

[@tkyk4893]

Showing empathy =/= to being ethical, and vise versa. You can empathize with the worst kinda of person, and you can emphathize with one person and not another.

[@Lord_Cow]

Idk seemed to me that he was more interested in stating hard truths rather than any emotionally charged argument

[@nelsonvazquez8104]

In my i think if jubilee is going to do a panel around transitioning it should be a panel of doctors and experts that have studied and a scientific understanding about gender dysphorai such as neuroscientists, neuropsychologist, psychiatrist, primary care doctor, and so forth

[@Angelica-cc2gc]

I would watch that in a heartbeat is that would be such a different perspective than what they usually do on this channel.

[@BeyondmyselfIsrael]

The doctors are gonna say the same thing the liberals say. The doctors that don’t agree with this will not speak out in fear of losing their license. I want you to remember that doctors cannot work with organic medicine they will get banned if they do. Take that into perspective.

[@empressofawesome7099]

I think that would be amazing - I wonder what it would be like to have those sorts of experts that you described but on both sides!!!

[@Kingofthenet2]

I agree. If they make any more videos in this topic it must feature medics and scientific studies

[@maddyheinberg5506]

Literally. These people don’t know the difference between sex and gender lmao. It wouldn’t be much of a debate bc most people who are highly educated are liberal so

[@NeonKue]

Adrien really tried comparing sex change to a haircut 😂😂😂

[@yourlocallesbian6448]

what even is this world????

[@anastasia-fr1gn]

And that woman tried to compare it to working at McDonalds lol

[@guotyr2502]

Most likely to her it's just as mondain, seeing as she somehow got all her kids suicidal and transitioned

[@markerzuahsiam335]

​@@guotyr2502that woman is a bad mom. I'm truly sad for those poor kids.

[@greysonfrost9262]

​@markerzuahsiam335 exactly because statistically it's impossible to have 2 kids be trans for more then roughly 5 parents total in the world and there are hundreds of parents with multiple *trans* kids

[@lunasquib]

Arthur is so disrespectful, showing your annoyance is so immature. However the most annoying thing is that he treats any opinion as false thing is that he is passionate and does care about others as far as I can see in the video

[@emg.9246]

Ita annoying asf when ppl try to pass off feelings as facts. Yes an opinion can be false. Facts are never false. And it’s a biological fact that even with medical transition it doesn’t change the s3x you were born as at birth🤷🏼‍♀️

[@rabbithole245]

@@emg.9246 yes, thank you for pointing that out. now that we've covered something that everyone knows.... how do we ACTUALLY deal with the issue of gender dysphoria in an effective way? maybe with a method that has been shown to work through statistics and fact, such as letting people transition, since i have a feeling that just yelling "you can never change your biological sex at birth!" into their ears won't help all too much

[@mirmir0003]

​@@emg.9246no trans person is denying their sex at birth. if anything theyre hyper aware of it. but with years of transition it'd be ridiculous to call them by their birth sex

[@TK-pv4lh]

@@mirmir0003agreed. Conservatives talk as if they decide which pronounce to use based on individuals’ bone structure and chromosomes. Let’s show them pics of trans people (especially those who “pass” as cis.)

[@musilily926]

find me a trans person with XY chromosomes then male pronouns might fit@@TK-pv4lh

[@Marina-og7vw]

Evelyne was the most intelligent and well spoken person in the debate that she wasn’t even on lol

[@lalialove]

Evelyn is really smart and well spoken. Shout out to her!!

[@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe]

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say!

[@emekaokafor7179]

@@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe for real, you were amazing.

[@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe]

@@emekaokafor7179 Thank you, that's very kind

[@slxthkween]

I was so impressed with you, and when I found out you are only 17 I was flabbergasted. You are going to go big places, keep it up girl. @@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe

[@ShesEvelyneGoldsmythe]

@@slxthkweenThank you so much, that's very kind of you to say!

[@ExposedToast]

This mediator did such a great job at not taking sides and keeping the conversation from derailing into full blown argument. More of these videos needs a mediator like this! Keep it up buddy you're the real MVP!

[@Aunt-B]

Check him out fr he does a ton of research and does unbiased research into these issues @GEN

[@zoeybarter3246]

Nope. He was very clearly transphobic.

[@concertvids_and_mashups]

Yep exactly. Not like the jubilee discussion where Blaire was on and she was being cut off

[@Aunt-B]

@@concertvids_and_mashups that exactly. I felt so bad for her, everyone else on the opposite side was so catty towards her and the moderator didn't stop them at all.

[@cartergomez5390]

What is his name?

[@MrSpaceMees]

the problem with this whole discussion is that there is no certainty that they arent just lying or basing their opinion on false information they just accepted because of their bias.

[@whitneytan2330]

Props to Evelyne, especially at @40:15 when she added nuance to the conversation regarding immigrant parents from Eastern cultures

[@demonicchild475]

Majority of minors have no idea what they want for themselves. They don’t to understand the risks of this life changing decision. This shouldn’t even be a debate.

[@andrewfantome4020]

Many adults are unable to make important choices for their lives, including about sexuality or gender (it took Ricky Martin 35 or 40 years to realize he was bisexual sexually but gay romantically), lol.

[@ShadowIsABaby]

Actually most kids understand decisions and have better understanding than most adults, but I also agree with the fact that children shouldn’t be allowed to physically transition, but should be allowed to socially transition. Socially transiting gives them a better idea of whether this is what they really want.

[@andrewfantome4020]

@@ShadowIsABaby Children always think that they understand and know everything, even better than adults. But this is a mistake and many adults have already gone through this and understood.

[@adrian56837]

@@ShadowIsABabyhuhh “most”? thats sounds far fetch

[@coletrainhetrick]

​@ShadowIsABaby no, you sound like a child for claiming that.

[@QueenieEileenie]

Adolescence is an identity crisis. We can’t let kids make permanent decisions based on temporary feelings.

[@Nicole__Natalia]

Facts

[@user-rc8sn8jd7i]

They usually don't. No doctor is performing SRS on minors. The proper way is to let them live as the gender they want to, usually by changing their name, changing their hair and wardrobe, etc. If they still want to be trans later on, they'll take puberty blockers. If they still feel that way as an adult, THEN they can start changing their bodies (which in itself takes years or decades, depending on how much money they have).

[@ashleygraham1011]

We don't. For kids to access these options they have to have parents and medical professionals saying they need it.

[@QueenieEileenie]

@@user-rc8sn8jd7i puberty blockers are changing their bodies. There is no going back from that. We can’t pause time. Puberty blockers are a permanent decision for what is more than likely a temporary problem. And we know kids are getting more than puberty blockers so, even if they were safe for this off label use, your point is moot.

[@QueenieEileenie]

@@ashleygraham1011 What do you think “doctors” and parents are doing if not letting the child make these decisions?

[@sherinajacksonsonko6178]

So she had 2 children who wants to attempt to change their sex? But there isn’t anything else WRONG?

[@kylewhittle6565]

Dear Jubilee, please bring back Evelyn for more debates, she was the only one who spoke with eloquence and exhibited genuine curiosity that is refreshing in an era when everyone has entrenched, myopic views.

[@joshthesloth5199]

Something that wasn't brought up. I've heard that Sweden, Finland, and the UK restricted puberty blockers because there are side effects (stunts growth, infertility, and stunts bone development). So puberty blockers shouldn't be involved in the conversation with social transitioning, it should be treated as if it's medical transitioning. BTW Kiara was not undecided, her mind was made up from the start.

[@shana_sakai]

I just google searched about the side effects of puberty blockers and what you said is 100% FALSE. You're lying in front of the people. It's disgusting

[@antonmartinsson]

Speaking as a Swede, that’s true, but it’s only part of the story (as far as I’ve understood it). From what I’ve seen and heard, I think the biggest reason treatments like puberty blockers have stopped being distributed to younger people is because most doctors here are basically in agreement that the scientific evidence for puberty blockers (and medical transition at an early age in general) helping to actually cure gender dysphoria and improve mental wellbeing in the long term is basically non-existent, and that the few studies that point to the opposite are not scientifically solid enough to be taken seriously.

[@joshthesloth5199]

@@antonmartinsson Interesting. I've heard from gender critical doctors and scientist, that liberal doctors and activist are manipulating statistics to show that transitioning is the best option for youth suffering from gender dysphoria. Yet detransitioners would say otherwise, and Debra Soh has said that gender dysphoric youth usually grow out of their dysphoria by adulthood being either gender nonconforming or gay.

[@ammytshabatau1840]

Interesting format. Evelyne and Christian stood out for me in the whole cast. I enjoyed how receptive to the panel's points.They followed with interesting comments & questions to the panel. It was great to see them ponder on the discussion throughout.

[@antsonfire408]

And Kiara... Was just Kiara 😂

[@FlurryJoe]

Why is this a discussion? The US is officially insane.

[@ArthurCSchaperMR]

SAD but hard to disagree at this point.

[@brookec8837]

I miss when we were all patriotic and weren’t so polarized

[@ConsrvtvBaylee]

The more I see of Sara, the more I love her!! She's respectful, honest, and gets her point across.

[@clarissathompson0103]

She really is the best! She has children's best interest at heart.

[@jesseshepherd5522]

She does not give children and/or the younger generation a chance to sway her opinion. She may be respectful, but she is not very middle ground. @@clarissathompson0103

[@xelectricfeel]

She truly rocks! I found her because of the trans liberals vs. trans conservatives and I'm so glad I did!

[@mikaapichatsakol530]

“I’m always going to go on personal experience over stats.” In a debate? WOW. That blows my mind that he would proudly admit to that.

[@rhyashuler1558]

I agree! Every single person on the liberal side went off of their own personal experience. The girl with blue hair said that she personally would have hurt herself, the guy said what you wrote, and the mother based it off of her children. The conservative side stuck to studies and various views that they had seen overall whether it be social media, news, actual studies etc.

[@sagen06]

Im just sitting here like...so youre a narcissist then? Great to know, valuable information.

[@Manic_Panic]

Statistics can be faked or just not offer proper conclusions. Look at election polls for example. Our personal perspectives are as valuable as "official" statistics. Learn to observe the world around you through your own eyes, it will tell you more than you think at first glance. Don't underestimate yourself.

[@Afrogirrl]

@@Manic_Panicthat’s easily dismissed by looking at multiple studies. End of

[@SAHMomma]

It's the only way they can make their arguments is based off of emotion. If they tried to go off of real facts and statistics and science, it would Prove that as who Are against all of this are correct.

[@maria-212]

Kiara was definitely not ‘undecided’ lol

[@emmalola808]

Why is no one talking about Christian?! He was so bright and intelligent and genuinely open to the truth on both sides