Lithium Titanate Cells - an Introduction

What are lithium titanium oxide cells? Where do they come from and what are they used for?
Use discount code "Julian LTO" at hakadibattery.com
Hakadi LTO Cells: hakadibattery.com/products/ha...
Yinlong LTO Cells: hakadibattery.com/products/yi...
Yinlong website: www.yinlong.energy/
Yinlong LTO cell safety video: • Yinlong Energy LTO Bat...
Electric bus: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electri...

[@krz8888888]

The sub zero charge temperature is the killer feature here

[@user-iy1vo2jf2q]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3ekpaSNhMZ4nck

[@BillAnt]

Yin's big long errr... cell is performing pretty well. Instead they should move away from all kinds of "chemical reaction" batteries to graphene based super caps using capacitive changing in minutes and no degradation over time. If they could increase the energy density of super-caps, it'd be a lithium and other chemical based battery killer.

[@universeisundernoobligatio3283]

Extreme car audio creating future business for the hearing aide industry.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

These cells are becoming VERY popular in the Van life and Off Grid communities 👍

[@EhrenLoudermilk]

Interesting. Thanks for the idea

[@edwardfletcher7790]

@@EhrenLoudermilk There's also plenty of videos showing how to make your own DIY 12V car battery with them 👍

[@mos8541]

AND ... other hot trendy hashtag keyword search tags such as Lower Slobovia... popular with van life... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWmqqIdtj9Sneck

[@james10739]

High discharges are not bad to have but aside from specific Circumstances it's not that useful like for van life do you really need to be able to empty your whole battery bank in 6 minutes even 1 hour when really you want it to last at least all night call it 12 hours so thats going to be more than enough surge current capability and for cycles lifepo4 would probably be fine because you want to size it where you have more backup than 1 night so generally you will not be completely emptying the battery everyday so the since you are not doing full cycles it will last a long time

[@edwardfletcher7790]

@@james10739 People really like the safety aspect. Vans aren't crash rated, so that safety is a big deal.

[@GTrainRx7]

I made a car battery with 6 x 30ah cells. Works amazing. Yes, 30ah starts a car super fast, super easy. These cells ROCK!

[@GTrainRx7]

@@willylam88 Nope. Well... "it's complicated". Short version is that if you charge them from flat, in a very hot environment, with other high loads, you MIGHT cause your alt to overheat. After doing the math, I can tell you that this outcome is almost impossible to achieve, even if you try. If you search for Ih8mud + LTO starter, you should find the thread I posted the answer to this, and many other, questions. Otherwise, ask me here. :) I did a LOT of testing and they exceeded my expectations.

[@MichaelCarper2]

@@willylam88 alternator has a current limiter built in. That's why lights dim when you have a big aftermarket car stereo system.

[@croolis]

I have a 6x40Ah Yinlong battery pack on a 5.4l Ford Expedition .. works *much* better than lead acid .. it's been over 2 years now and performance is fine. I'm using an active balancer with full group to keep the pack balanced, though even with the balancer disconnected they remain quite well balanced over a couple of months.

[@garycotz563]

@@croolis can you tell us the sources for your gear?

[@256byteram]

Someone who I will keep anonymous was charging one of these up off a bench power supply a few years ago. He forgot to set the voltage correctly and left it to charge overnight on constant current. At 4am it exploded, blew out all the windows in his front room and started several small fires. The sound and light was strong enough to wake him up immediately so he got the fires out before they spread. Not a particularly wise thing to do!

[@JulianIlett]

I never leave batteries charging overnight - not my car, nor my power banks, not even my phone. But I may have to make an exception for the car, to get cheap rate overnight charging.

[@snowleopard9749]

Fire risk of Lithium ion cells mainly depends on the cathode chemistry, not the anode (LTO) chemistry. LiFe/LTO cells are relatively stable whereas Li NMC/LTO cells would catch fire as described.

[@edwardfletcher7790]

I find this story highly unlikely, especially given how rare these batteries were a few years ago. Who in their right mind is going to use a direct power supply rather than a charger circuit to charge up an expensive battery like this ? I call BS...

[@sanches2]

Thank you, for the great overview! I really appreciate that you spent the time for researching and showing these. It is not the first time i learn something new from your videos.

[@JulianIlett]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@SaturnusDK]

There's an interesting concept about hydrid batteries where you have high cycle but lower capacity types combined with high capacity but lower cycle life batteries. The concept is based upon how you would typically use a normal car. How often would you drive around doing daily commutes with a full tank of gas? Hardly ever, right? As there's enormous milage savings in not lugging around unnecessary weight. The hybrid concept takes the same approach. So you could have 20% of the total capacity in the high cycle life batteries. 80% in high capacity batteries divided into for example 20% cells. For daily commutes you probably need at most 40% of full capacity, so the high cycle battery would be filled first, and then alternating high capacity cells. Thereby greatly increasing the total cycle life of the whole battery system while still having a fairly compact overall battery.

[@lost4468yt]

How are you going to deal with the issues of the high capacity batteries sitting heavily charged for a long time?

[@MrBrannfjell]

@@lost4468yt software /BMS system should have a battery saver mode, so unless you need to charge up for a long drive, your car can go into midrange mode with balanced/optimal load in high capacity cells. (I think its around 65% on 18650 cells).

[@lost4468yt]

@@MrBrannfjell sure but do you really expect people to use that properly? Even the existence of it will cause people range anxiety.

[@noobulon4334]

This chemistry has also started making it into starter batteries for backup generators. Once the price comes down a bit I bet these will make their way into hybrids as well

[@johnshaw359]

Good for car audio, as they would 'hold' the alternator charging voltage of at least 13.8 volts and likely 14+ volts, without having to run the engine.

[@leifsalomonsson5426]

Just like the actual car battery

[@BRUXXUS]

I'm enjoying all these videos on various battery chemistries!

[@marktownend8065]

The first of a new fleet of 'tri-mode' locomotive, designated class 93 and built by Stadler in Spain, has just been delivered to UK freight company, Rail Operations Group (ROG). For fast freights mostly on electrified tracks, a moderately rated diesel engine onboard provides 'last mile' power and a small battery of lithium titanate technology can boost the output for a short time or allow the loco to make small movements without starting the engine. The battery can be charged from the overhead wire, from the diesel generator when its full power isn't required for traction and from slowing via regen. The loco can also haul passenger trains and a good proportion of ROG's business is delivering new rolling stock. Top speed is 110mph.

[@JulianIlett]

Interesting. Titanate has a niche in trains too :)

[@iamdarkyoshi]

Ooh, more cool battery content. Love seeing these new technologies on a cozy channel I've been following for a very long time now. Also, you might have had a smudge on your camera lens on this one, I'm really good at smudging mine before taking photos or videos :P

[@JulianIlett]

I know what you mean about the lens smudge, but it's just the low level of light in winter - makes the image very soft.

[@robotskirts]

I saw these on a car audio channel and wondered what the deal was. Thank you!

[@hfbs4321]

Brazilian greetings! your videos are very good!! already waiting for the LTO test!

[@drc6940]

Interesting but from what I can tell you’ll need ten for a kWh and that’s working out at 530 euro per kWh. It’s a hard deal to justify unless you have a specific use case because NMC cells are approaching 100 euro per kWh at the moment

[@paulmichaelfreedman8334]

Indeed, just checked pricing and making a pack of these is quite expensive, even for just a 12V starter battery. I'd opt for LiFePO4 batteries, they can handle a lot of current and a fair bit of misuse too. NMC has the highest density, but also the most heavy metals and cannot handle current as well as LiFePO4 or LTO

[@NykedDave]

Succinctly presented. Much appreciated!

[@jagrutbhatt3301]

Excellent information.

[@Ligh7Bulb]

They weren’t kidding with that name. Titanic indeed!

[@PaulG.x]

These cells will run for the whole yinlong day

[@2000jago]

Seems to me these (6 of them in series) would be pretty useful to construct a car jumper pack... (although at $58 each, min order 6 pieces before shipping, that might not be very cost effective). How long will they hold a full charge?

[@sortofsmarter]

It does seem like a good fit in auto/marine/RV usage. Especially sense those vehicles have a nominal 2.1V per cell in a wet cell lead acid type battery. Does there documentation show the self discharge rate?

[@jimbodee4043]

Nice cells, be great to have an idea of realistic costs for a decent set of these delivered.

[@jasonhuxley674]

I've been following LTO for about 4 years now, I think I'm going to bite the bullet and spin up a 12v pack to replace my backup AGM house batteries (I have LFP 48v for main)

[@peterferguson2344]

Great video, very interesting 👍

[@gustavsidekick4836]

the introduction i never knew i needed

[@luxmonday]

One issue right now is that most of the common fuel gauge and cell balancing IC's can't fuel gauge or balance these cells due to the low cell voltage. Just using an "off the shelf" cell balancing solution, particularly the popular Chinese "shunt at 4.2V" style balancers like a HY2213 will not balance the cells. Additionally many programmable fuel gauge and protection IC's can't be programmed for a low enough per-cell discharge cutoff. (1.5V per cell cutoff).

[@HestabyFR]

just look in the shop, seen in the video description... they supply LTO BMS

[@epat4706]

Great video and thank you for bringing us the latest cell technology, is there data on self-discharge? - I have a project where I would like to leave one cell for a say 6 months without having to re-charge.

[@ericklein5097]

Self discharge is nearly nonexistent with all the lithium chemistries. I've had NMC cells sit for almost a year at nominal and when I checked them later their voltage was the same or a few millivolts less.

[@AlexandreLollini]

What do you need lead acid for ?? since 2011 I have my 15ah 4S LFP and it follows me from car to car, through all the winters and summers, startup is strong, can survive 2 months of not using a car, etc. I suppose a 6S of LTO can work in a car without a lead acid.

[@kennythedragon47]

id wonder if it would be reasonable to in a pinch if these were in a car audio system to use it as the starting battery if the lead acid one failed?

[@wayne8113]

Thanks Julian

[@me1ne]

Could I use six of those as replacement for my 12 V starter battery? I think the engine needs 650 A for cranking. I go through a lead-acid every two years and external charging is required during winter times. A tad annoying...

[@patrickday4206]

Yes I've seen deisels replaced there lead acid with these

[@judo-rob5197]

I thought about getting these but I couldn't find a balancer. Perhaps you or someone else can suggest one.

[@cirozorro]

Those are big!!! But 20 to 30k cycles, amazing. would prepare a square for factor for tighter spacing and need at least 12 of them to run an e-bike

[@ro63rto]

Is that what ExoContralto is using to power his 12 amplifier/ 12 subwoofer van ?

[@sethgt1234]

I have 24 cells of Yinlong 40ah. I have 6S 4P for my car audio bank. They are amazing I'm not saying they are the best, but they are near the best.

[@Nathan0A]

I recall seeing some LTO cells allowing 100C+ discharge, 10C seems a bit on the low side for this chemistry

[@tomaszg2335]

How looks ussge LTO with winter temperatures below 0C?

[@markhaskins840]

Please calculate the round trip efficiency and compare to another type of cell, my understanding is there is a larger charge/discharge energy loss compared to Li-ion ect. so installations where conserving energy is important makes them less then ideal

[@garycotz563]

Charging LTO cells seems to be a tough nut to crack... only a few sources for BMS and big AMP chargers. Maybe you can help us figure out what to do about balancing and BMS needs in the next video... I have some Toshiba LTO 24v 10cell batteries that are working well but these Yinlong's are very interesting. if anyone knows of a good BMS/ActiveBalancer combo for LTO and some experience with them please chime in.

[@fishyerik]

The larger the capacity the lower the resistance will be, all else equal. Also, it's easier to design the cells to have low resistance if energy density isn't a very high priority. With just 76 Wh/kg (according to Yinlong's website) it takes quite significant losses to heat up the cells, and combined with tolerating high temperatures and internal low resistance it's not that strange, or impressive that they can be charged and discharged at 10C for 10 seconds max, and 6C continuous for charging. 10C times 76 Wh/kg means 760 W/kg, which isn't very high power density, keep in mind that's for the cells, not complete pack and system. Somehow Yinlong's webpage says they can be charged in 6 minutes, but also 10C charging is limited to max 10 seconds, and 6C is max for continuous, so those 6 minutes possibly refers to 60% of their capacity. If they are more tolerant for a wide range of factors, and much more long lasting even when exposed to such factors they are absolutely very useful in some applications. Being able to charge and discharge their very low capacity at a high rate doesn't mean they have high power density.

[@orkhepaj]

china numbers are always fake

[@thedonovan]

How do these compare to LIFEPO4?

[@dbailey3024]

How much duty and can I order direct?

[@brianbassett4379]

Can they make them a little bigger?

[@rw-xf4cb]

Specs sound good - I remember Will Prowse talking about them and cant understand why they never took off - is it just cost of the Titanium?

[@DigBipper188]

More likely the low gravimetric and volumetric energy density that LTO cells have - they're great for static energy storage where weight isn't a big problem but you just can't beat NMC, LFP and Na-Ion for energy density and weight for EV applications and compact devices like laptops and phones.

[@patrickday4206]

​@@DigBipper188if they are used the density will improve pretty new technology

[@diederickb1806]

@9:54 u talk about 400A from 6 of those cells giving 6KW but u mean 40A so 600w right?

[@cmuller1441]

The real safety test is nailing the battery to cause a massive short circuit. This way all the stored energy is dumped inside... The energy density is poor and even the power density is just on paar with common lithium cells. But it's probably for busses: you charge a bit every few stops

[@dickersonaudiodesigns]

I have 7 banks (6S/7P) of the 35ah cells in my truck, totaling 245ah and charge @ 15.6-15.8v. Total range 13.8-16.8v. They are great cells, ive used them for audio and have powered my house when electric was out from storms. I have a Jupiter 4000 pure sine inverter 15.5v max. I have pulled over 2,400 amps from this bank in competition and going strong for 2.5 yrs now. Research and ask question before building a bank like this, they are very safe but you can damage cells if you aren't careful and don't follow recommendations. Im upgrading to 10 banks (350ah) soon. XSPower/Yinlong.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

Are the 'A', 'B' and 'B-' grades all made on the same assembly line? I imagine so and then tested to see what their internal resistance is etc. Similar to how microprocessors are made: Various chips are made on the same line using the same process, but due to tiny defects some chips can be clocked at higher speeds before failing and are thus rated higher (or lower if it tests lower).

[@vg23air]

i think they are aged by use and he was loaned used cells

[@tin2001]

It sounds like these are pulled from electric buses, and graded for sale for reuse.... The variation probably comes more from their position in the vehicle packs, since some will be hotter than others in use, and will degrade faster.

[@taliduat]

@@tin2001 not only that but some are pulled out very forcefully. and they sometimes brake off the connectors and resolder them... sometimes that creates faults. be aware and do your research before buying. got scammed myself buying this kind of batteries.

[@JustWasted3HoursHere]

@@tin2001Makes sense.

[@terjeoseberg990]

Do they leak? I bought some super capacitors and they leak, so I can’t use them as a battery.

[@bigsnoopk]

I'd use 5 batteries in series to replace lead acid batteries, especially for solar storage. The number comparisons are a lot closer.

[@snowleopard9749]

LTO is the anode chemistry. What is the cathode chemistry? Is it LiFe or Li NMC?

[@mrlongschlong4370]

I have 6 of these yinlong for my 7200w rms car subwoofer, I should probably get 12 or 18 or at best 24, butat the moment I don't have money for more, the rest of the audio system was already expensive enough

[@NetrunnerAT]

Self discharge curve for 6 months? With a balancer this type of cells sounds great.

[@MichaelCarper2]

5s for an unmodified car is the way to go. You can push these up to 3.1v without too much cell damage; past that the cells break down fast.

[@garycotz563]

What is your recharging system? BMS? Active Balancing?

[@MichaelCarper2]

⁠@@garycotz563active balancer, car alternator. You shouldn't have only a bms battery connected to a car alternator; when the bms disconnects the alternator will overvolt from 13.7 to 20+v.

[@garycotz563]

Isn't that the job of the voltage regulator?

[@MichaelCarper2]

⁠​⁠@@garycotz563on a bms only system, the car alternator voltage regulator can't react quickly enough. There is a video called 2 ways Lithium KILLS Your Alternator that explains it

[@bhadawang]

wow

[@skepticalexicon3534]

Are these capacitors or batteries?

[@BillyNoMates1974]

but will these batteries go up like that london bus last week ?

[@JulianIlett]

No. Safety video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIC1oYF3fdJ5ia8

[@Pulverrostmannen]

When I was competing in car audio my amplifiers pulled over 700amps, so I would need at least 12 of these cells to cover it, My batteries in this car had total 280AH and could deliver up to more than 2000 amps and was combined with 2 voltage boosted alternators that charged 100amps at idle and 180 with some revs. But I could still have had use for even more power then. I became Europe champion in my class one year with this car, over 150DB with a single subwoofer

[@cybermaus]

Nice and all, rather more easy to deal with then the voltage curve on Sodium. But still Lithium based. I am trying a set of Sodium just to get rid of the lithium addiction we all seem to have. Though nice these are re-used ex-vehicle cells at least.

[@paulwright8378]

Sounds like they'd be useful for most off grid inverters with that voltage range, how much do they cost tho

[@marcus_w0]

Around 60€ a piece for the Grade A 40Ah. 6pcs set you back 360€, 24pcs 1340€

[@paulwright8378]

@@marcus_w0 yeh I saw the link, I wonder where to get the used ones, b grade cells tho

[@habana7638]

I don't think so, if you compare it to a 24 Volt battery, 8x280Ah Eve cells cost 8x$100= $800, or 70 of these at $60 = $4200.. so?

[@paulwright8378]

@@habana7638 but most dc to ac inverters switch off between 10 an 15 volts, I still think lead battery's are the best if you're not moving tho

[@habana7638]

@@paulwright8378 That depends on your system, 12V, 24V or 48V, no lead SLA battery is history, I use Eve 280Ah Lithium cell for tree years and in all cases much better than SLA AGM, etc.

[@ncdave4life]

4:10 Fun fact: "minus 40 degrees C" is redundant, because -40°C = -40°F.

[@IvanVoras]

Hmmm, that voltage makes it useful for applications designed for 2.4V (2x1.2) NiMH cells. Can they be charged without a smart controller, e.g. just connecting them to a solar panel?

[@dimzen5406]

Be aware of higher voltage impulses in some NiMH chargers, it needed to keep it healthy, but can destroy lithium sell

[@JulianIlett]

At the very least, use a BMS to prevent overcharging.

[@midinotes]

Will that fit in my flashlight? 😅 That is flux capacitor territory.

[@markpedzinski4950]

Do u think anyone chooses batteries based upon milliohms

[@cambridgemart2075]

Fully charge in 6 minutes is 10C, so 450A charging current; that will dissipate 203W per cell for a 1mOhm cell resistance or 203kW for a 100kWh pack! That is of course wasting 20kWh over a 10 minute charge, so the charge current must be 20% higher, resulting in even more power dissipation (292W per cell); this is basically a vicious circle meaning that 10C charge current just isn't practicable.

[@sailingoctopus1]

Interesting. I have a ten year old EV that uses LTO batteries. It's a Peugeot Ion, which is, like the Citroen C-Zero, a rebranded Mitsubishi i-MiEV. I didn't know about the great longevity, the temperature tolerance or the high discharge/charge rates of LTO batteries. The longevity and the temperature tolerance of LTO batteries makes me wonder why quite a lot of the Mitsubishi i-MiEV/Peugeot Ion/Citroen C-Zero have had battery problems. In theory the batteries in these cars should last for about a million miles, if the 20,000 cycles is true (60 miles WLTP range x 20,000 cycles). Mine doesn't show any evidence of battery degradation after ten years, but it is very low mileage (20,000 miles). I guess that ten years or so ago there were variabilities in manufacturing that caused some cells to fail prematurely.

[@jaro6985]

Peugeot Ion used LEV50 and LEV50N, normal lithium ion cells, it did not use LTO cells. Only a few Japanese models were LTO with a massively reduced pack capacity of 10kWh (vs 16kWh), those probably all held up well with little degradation.

[@sailingoctopus1]

@@jaro6985 Thanks, you are right. I'll delete my post, because it is factually incorrect and so irrelevant.

[@jaro6985]

@@sailingoctopus1 eh its still interesting as a few cars were made with LTO which I did not know of.

[@bartronicsecurity]

You never mentioned if they get destroyed if you go below the minimum voltage . I know normal LiPo don't like being over discharged.

[@rafflesmaos]

Wouldn't these be quite suitable for a whole house battery backup system? Why aren't there more such systems (I could only readily find one or two)? Too expensive?

[@ericklein5097]

No. Way too expensive and the energy density is half LiFePO4 which is already kinda low...a 30Kwh battery pack is a full rack

[@tin2001]

Energy density and weight are not a problem for houses, so on that front this would be OK... But the price is very high, presumably due to the titanium, which effectively rules them out of anything where you want high volume storage and low cost (like a house).

[@vg23air]

evidently these new cells weigh three times as much as ltp ? per the bus brochure

[@borayurt66]

These can make an eternal car battery.

[@Graeme_Lastname]

Price?

[@____________________________.x]

4:03 Interestingly this week, I’ve had to wrap my iPad and iPhone with heating wire to keep them warm enough to even start charging. It’s currently too cold for them to function 😳

[@andymouse]

Are you an Eskimo ?

[@taliduat]

dont know what happened to the last comment: the short story is: these batteries are not in production for years now and the stuff they are selling online is mostly old batteries that have been repacked. do your research before buying! while new batteries of this kind have big advantages that is not the stuff you get online. dont get scammed!

[@sauceman9499]

Here South east asia I've seen few built of electric race bike using LTO & NMC battery and they're fast And here in my village we have 30 electric bus not including the buses on nearby villages and they're all government funded

[@user-tj5nk7lb8l]

WOW another gutbuster J, just when I was getting an appetite for SiBs ( Got my 8 SiBs from Hakadi on test thnx J for the tip BTW) but you are doing a bit of clickbait here for Hakadi's shop front. OK so long as we know. The Bus stats are amazing and definitely needed for city mass transit? We dont know they are all using LTOs but nonetheless OMG. Weight is an issue 80kWh/kg vs 150kWh/kg for Sibs and 250 kWh/kg for Lifepo. Cost $400 for 6 (12v 40Ah system) ca 3-5 x cost of a Lifepo and a Lifepo is 1.5 x cost of a common Lion. I am edging towards a Lifepo 24v 100 Ah system comprising 2 small auto battery cases cw bms £700 would cost ca £3500 for my Golf cart. At least the DH little brats wont be fitting these to their pavement scooters and doing wheelie burn outs anytime soon. Great stuff J

[@JulianIlett]

Hakadi have said I can have all the cells I want for my videos, so I'm more than happy to return the favour. I can afford all the buck and boost converters, coulombmeters, wattmeters, electronics loads and all that stuff, but the batteries are the expensive bit. This is the only way I can make this work :)

[@CrimeVid]

How about Not putting these things in a vehicle at all, until you can prove you cannot set fire to them at all ?

[@notreallydaedalus]

Oh boy, wait til you learn about gasoline!

[@wellermans]

Next.

[@abel11112]

"I possess a solid understanding of Arduino programming, yet I haven't had the opportunity to work hands-on with it. I kindly seek assistance in acquiring the necessary funds to purchase an Arduino.

[@user-il6zz9nw4r]

Many years ago I saw a guy melt down his motorcycle starter cranking so long with this type of battery..

[@jpdj2715]

2.3V * 40 Ah = 92 kWh - so you need 10.9 of these to get 1 (one) kWh. That's a big volume for an 80 kWh car (or home battery)

[@frosthoe]

Totally opposing and slightly off topic. But if cold temp are an issue for current batteries, and since thay are mostly all liquid cooled. Why dont Hybrids and EV's have a VERY small, very efficient say 20cc engine to heat coolant, and bring up available charge for startup? and another tangent, I know this is possible because we do this in the summer with pure methanol cars, especially full tilt Methanol burnout cars. We have a tiny Honda generator, and route the exhaust through an air to liquid HX that warms the engine coolant, transmission, and (For us racing) heats crankcase oil to at least 183f to boil off any left over Methanol. Yeah totally Off topic. sorry lol. I never stop...

[@BlackWolf42-]

I had LTO's in my vehicle for some HAM radio gear. I charged them off the alternator and they sat parallel with a lead acid. If I didn't disconnect the pack from the system, the lead acid battery would be killed for some reason.

[@habibrehman5216]

When running lithium LTO's youbare not suppose to run any other battery with lithiumbav been told by a few people

[@muddy11111]

Surely with such a low internal resistance, connecting to an alternator would effectively be a short and the alternator would burn out.. ?

[@stamasd8500]

Remember that the internal resistance is not actually a resistance but a calculated parameter that goes to show efficiency of discharge etc.

[@GodmanchesterGoblin]

@muddy11111 Internal resistance can be zero, but does not present a short to a charging circuit unless the battery voltage is also zero. In reality, you have several cells in series, and you might have 5 cells at 2.4 volts for a nominal 12 volts. If the internal resistance is, say, 0.005 ohms, then that's 0.025 ohms for 5 cells, which means that you'd need a supply of 12.1 volts to charge at 4 amps, or 12.25 volts to charge at 10 amps.

[@GodmanchesterGoblin]

​@stamasd8500 It is a resistance, and it can be measured when charging or discharging by varying the current between two values and measuring the change in cell voltage. However, it is not constant (depends on state of charge, temperature, cell chemistry, age of cell, etc) and is it always in series with a voltage source which is the voltage generated by the cell chemistry. The internal resistance is also a major contributor to heating of the cell when charging or discharging.

[@JulianIlett]

With alternator and lead-acid at the front of the car, LTOs, amplifiers and speakers at the back - you could have moderate gauge cables between front and back to add a bit of resistance.

[@andyreact]

Best bet is run a DC-DC charger, I use one in my camper to charge lifepo4 (it also has solar MPPT built into the charger)

[@tomascernak6112]

they are expensive AF. 100 USD per 100Wh in form of cell is insanely high.

[@EspHack]

LFP is fine up to around 4v, its above 4.2v that you get trouble, my cars have been on LFP for a couple years now, I can leave them stored for half a year and it'll start right up, lead acid is just trash that needs to die already, get a 4s active balancer and some decent cells and you will probably never buy another car battery ever again

[@frostyfroze7352]

No please no one charge LFP ie Lifepo4 to 4v per cell.

[@eliprotiva222]

Yinlong vs Toshiba scib please

[@garycotz563]

I have 2 Toshiba scib's... 24v pack... they look like car batteries... I have not yet found a great way to recharge them but I do have a Daly LTO BMS 10S on it that works ok, I don't charge them past 2.5v... I do need an active balancer if anyone knows of a good BMS/ActiveBalancer combo for LTO and some experience with them please chime in.

[@paulmurgatroyd6372]

Yinlong Yinlong Yinlong Yinlong Yinlong Yinlong tiddle I po... Yinlong Yinlong Yinlong tiddle I po.. Tiddle I po...

[@jasontexter1721]

Most car alternators can output 18v if requested to lol

[@lyfandeth]

At 16 volts you will start blowing out all of the electronics in a car, which are nominally rated for about 13.8 volts, plus or minus 10%. Although I've seen one "intermittent charging" alternator (it shuts whenever the battery is fully charged) go up to 14.6 very breifly, 14.4 is generally considered the maximum safe slternator output.

[@jasontexter1721]

@@lyfandeth you can also blow all your electronics by reversing polarity 🤣🤣 I've seen that on the Internet. Always make sure you double check terminals before connecting 🤣🤣🤣

[@petertwiss356]

That's not how you measure a battery's internal resistance. You do it by thevenin equivalence.

[@daltl3716]

What makes these different than a super capacitor?

[@kamillatocha]

i wonder why it was only in China prob cus of safety reasons

[@Tanzir786]

how to know we A, B, -B great cells

[@DigBipper188]

On using these cells in a car; I would go with a 5S pack (13.5v full, 12.5 nominal) for jump-starting applications as the fully charged voltage matches a charged PB battery at 13.5v. also 400 amps from a 40AH cell would be sufficient to start almost anything up to a 2.0L diesel. I wouldn't consider using these cells in a car long-term without modifying the charging system though. LTO and LFP cells have a lower internal resistance than lead acid cells, which means they will apply a much heavier load on the alternator which can result in overheating and failure unless you overdrive the alternator or upgrade to one designed to control Lithium cells. That's also to say nothing of the potential for voltage spikes should the BMS on the battery reach its cutoff threshold on a cell. If the battery reaches its charge cutoff threshold this would result in the charge current being stopped into the cell suddenly, which could easily result in a voltage spike that could damage the vehicle's systems. Now while this might not be as likely to happen with a 6S LTO, you will still run that risk should the battery fall out of balance due to a lack of or insufficient cell balancing.

[@jimcoleman52]

The car audio guys don't run full BMS, only active balancers. Just a voltage setpoint. No protection from overcharging or overdischarge, some don't even run fuses. LTO is considered a "safe" chemistry by the audio community and doesn't have nearly as many fires attributed to it as other chemistries. But it is also regarded as slightly more difficult to impliment, needing modified voltage setpoint to charge a 6s bank in the mid 15-16v range to get best performance. The amplifiers usually run unregulated supplies, so more input voltage* = more rail voltage = more powah! *Until factors like transformer saturation and mosfet current limits set in

[@user-ww9yw4zi8m]

That's ONE big battery, how many children do you think were poisoned and died mining the lithium for that !!!!>>>???

[@DaSlotho]

Very long whistle....i sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo would like some....

[@patrickday4206]

no need for bms just a balncer can be discharged to zero with no impact on performance and charging fully won't diminish life span. Problem is finding a big enough charger to charge a 600amp battery bank fast in an rv 😂

[@balloney2175]

July, is the battery big or your cute hands small?

[@SolarizeYourLife]

You probably have to buy their bms boards from them...

[@samcgill]

Brisbane airport (where I work) has been running electric buses for shuttling between terminals and car parks for a long time. 10 years or perhaps more. Don’t know the technical details though.

[@SalvatoreLarosa-wf5gu]

Warum alles auf englich wir aben selbst einer sprache oder