Mulan 2020 Is a Failure in Almost Every Way

[@mechajay3358]

To sum up this movie: _"Dishonor! Dishonor on your whole family! Dishonor on you, Dishonor on your (cash) cow."_

[@Puki9117]

When I see this comment I image the original scene but there is a crappy "Cash"being harshly edited in

[@lessismore8533]

Lol love Mushu!!

[@zorskie]

Y E S

[@aphelion.9239]

Mushu wasn’t even in the movie.

[@sportyjhf5Q]

@@aphelion.9239 pretty much why i didn't see it. no mushu = no money from me.

[@Puddycat431]

Disney: *we dont want a dragon thats so unrealistic* Also Disney: *gives protag super powers and has a sorceress* make it make sense Disney-

[@lessismore8533]

Dragons aren't even out of PLACE for China lol hello Chinese New Year anyone?

[@hotdogchaos9206]

@less is more. With the old mulan most people from china didnt like Moshu ((sorry if I spelled it wrong)) mostly because the dragon clowned the history and made jokes, so the 2020 mulan has a Phoenix but that ended pissing them off anyways so.

[@GeorgeMonet]

Also Disney: "Let's give her a phoenix that randomly shows up for no reason, does nothing and contributes nothing to the plot".

[@drewnames651]

@@hotdogchaos9206 they say that if you try to appeal to everyone, you won't get anywhere. mulan was never accurate, was never meant to be accurate, it is true that it was a bit of a catalyst for stereotypes likes many others and so those of the culture mulan seemed to 'poorly represent' had their right to be angry just because of this fact but it was never meant to be accurate *THIS ONE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SOMEHOW MORE ACCURATE, AND DID SO WHILE NOT DOING SO, AND ENDED DOING WORST*

[@BlinkyBopsB137]

Why didn't they just add a tortoise? Or a white tiger? Those would make more sense.

[@ihavelemonade5640]

OG Mulan's personality: Smart, selfless, courageous... Live action Mulan's "personality": Magic. Woman. Chinese.

[@Puki9117]

I saw another comment which was the same as this

[@ihavelemonade5640]

@@Puki9117 Oh. I didn't copy it, though.

[@khairulhafiz2002]

So, that's the difference between original Mulan's and live action Mulan's personality in a nutshell, huh? Thanks.

[@HellAndDamnation]

Without face muscle. ( like, she litteraly have the same freaking expression in every single scene)

[@shadmanhasan4205]

Even Chinese/Korean action thrillers carry more emotion than what's seen here.

[@pearlbruzaite6420]

"we don't need strong, overpowered female characters; we need strong, well-written characters who just happen to be female."

[@kulazu]

I see this quote a lot. Do you know where it came from?

[@pearlbruzaite6420]

@@kulazu no idea sorry, i just happen to have it on a notebook

[@eisflamme2438]

When i watched "nausicaä from the valley of winds" i thought "yes! THIS is a strong, well written female charakter. Not like many other "strong female super woman" Charakters fron recent Movies or games."

[@blueflare3848]

Very true.

[@javierkiman8302]

Yes. things like this need to be. Not something like a remastered game of past that slightly gets adjusted. Which is not a remaster.

[@ProfessionalGoober]

Original Mulan: (Teaches kids that men and women can do the same) Mulan 2020: *C H I*

[@gachanoob9121]

Exactly

[@gachanoob9121]

U mean like from kung fu panda

[@randomwannabe556]

They didn't even get Chi right

[@ATALzz]

@@gachanoob9121 the kung fu panda chi is much more accurate, chi is supposed to be life energy, not superpowers, Kai stole the life energy of all of the masters in the spirit realm, and instead, gained the ability to control them, not use their essence as superpowers, basically zombie puppets, which makes sense, due to chi being the life energy of a being, Kai was also defeated using chi, cause he was technically a zombie, and Po was able to harness chi only in the spirit realm, Po never had powers and they never gave him any, which is great, unlike miss Mary Sue knockoff Mulan

[@BlinkyBopsB137]

@@randomwannabe556 Ya, if you want a perspective from a chinese person, Xiran jay is a good recommendation.

[@tobykiely5105]

When the villian catches an arrow earlier in the film but cant catch the one mulan kicks at him....

[@kaykutcher2103]

"Chi" really did him in.

[@thepersondotjpg]

@@kaykutcher2103 I watched Elvis' review of the film, but what the fehk is Chi supposed to be?

[@raspberryleaftea3974]

Bleaf Yoshikage From what I heard and research, Chi is no super power that’s for sure. It’s describe as a “vital life force” that flows through everyone, not gifted powers that certain people can be born with. Also it’s spelled “Qi”.

[@Raccon_Detective.]

@@kaykutcher2103 If you were to replace chi with force nothing would change.

[@hakujoudaidraws2633]

So.....chi is basically chakra?

[@mysteryman9488]

Disney: There wont be no cartoon dragon or musicals in this realistic war movie. Movie: *literally has sorcery and a phoenix as major plot points* (neither of whom are traditional parts of chinese culture by the way)

[@notquitehuman5097]

And crazy stunts that make shaolin soccer look like a documentary.

[@GachakoiThomas]

I mean RoTK has sorcery and one kingdom Wei uses a phoenix(also one strategist is nick-named the "rising/fledgling phoenix") as a symbol, I'd agree that it is stupid to make an announcement like that.

[@longangrysausage3495]

EXACTLY EX FUCKING ACTLY. THANK U WAT THE FUCK. This show was my childhood and open of the few things I felt proud about to be Chinese. And oh Disney just rolls in and absolutely annihilates the show.

[@MissKimShorty]

@@longangrysausage3495 It just blows my mind that the same company that gave us our favorite things are basically backpedaling on everything they've built themselves on. Fucking corporate capitalism.

[@nbewarwe]

Also they completely got Chi wrong.

[@haku8135]

The Emperor bowing to Mulan basically makes her the second most important person in the country, the first of course still being the Emperor himself. The Emperor DOESN'T bow to people, he gets bowed to. Him bowing to someone like that is MAJOR. Yeah, Mulan can do what she damn well pleases, GOOD LUCK trying to "I am your Captain" her into picking up your latte, let alone marrying you.

[@mrgreenboy644]

Plus he was shown to refuse to bow to the villain in the animated one

[@Aredel]

And she’s not even a soldier anymore. At the end of the movie she just goes home to live a normal life.

[@anon9469]

@@mrgreenboy644 It's almost as if the animated movie has a subtle point about how respect is earned, not forced... and the live-action version's message is "respect is the product of having superpowers".

[@king-fool]

@@anon9469 Well said 👏

[@projecte-niko8655]

Someone already mentioned it, but the emperor saying "Even if the wind howls, the mountain will not move." gave me a realization that he as a mountain BOWED in front of Mulan, who saved his life and also china from a serious threat, aside the bow meaning to be giving respect. THE PARALELLS HIT HARD. How could they ruin a movie so badly.

[@c-puff]

As one very smart youtuber said "They want Chinese people's money but they don't want to give Chinese people respect"

[@CidGuerreiro1234]

And they want to be "culturally diverse", but don't want to stray too far from what western audiences *think* other cultures look like. They wanted this movie to look Chinese, but not so Chinese that the average western viewer would feel alienated from it because, you know, money.

[@kittenmyu]

She just posted a review of the original Mulan as well. It's just as golden as her review of the movie.

[@excessivelyfangirlingbookw3339]

@@kittenmyu just saw it today - it’s definitely worth to watch ^^

[@Puki9117]

Which?

[@candycrushenthusiast4600]

@@Puki9117 xiran jay zhao

[@robby7499]

1998: If you have sheer perseverance and work hard, you can be a badass 2020: F@ck hard work, I have the power of God and anime on my side!!

[@azurneon]

Moral of the day: watch the classics instead, while wearing a pajama and eating skittles 🌈🍬👕...

[@astronic9979]

@@azurneon what if i don't like skittles

[@dahazelgen]

@@astronic9979 eat any sweets that you like

[@datboiaurhen]

You forgot to add the autistic screeching

[@astronic9979]

@@dahazelgen 👌

[@revelare_xvii6269]

*If Walt Disney were alive to see this, he’d want to die again.*

[@kieravermeal9127]

@@pkbutter And also he wouldn't have approved of the deals with China, considering he hated Communism with a passion.

[@fork-man]

I think he would die even with the original movie since he was racist but Honselty with all these live actions remakes he would burn down is own studio and rebuild it from the ground up and only die(since he might have the money and technology to prolong his life) knowing he left a worthy successor

[@birkkrabbedewaal8583]

"Holy sh*t you f*cking killed them dude!"

[@Flome810]

@@birkkrabbedewaal8583 OH MY GOD! THEY KILLED WALT!

[@weekachawchaw6304]

*he'd wanna take the company to the grave with him too*

[@purplehaze2358]

It’s a sad state of affairs when a movie about an anthropomorphized panda learning Kung Fu is unironically a better representation of Chinese culture than this.

[@OswaldAurelia]

Very true doctor

[@wesxd5292]

heard that Kung Fu Panda 3 barely scratched the surface for chi.. so whether this is true or not, how tf does DreamWorks' Kung Fu Panda 3 handle chi better than Disney's Mulan 2020?? bruh it makes no sense

[@SMarie-zk9oj]

@@wesxd5292 Disney fan detected

[@wesxd5292]

@@SMarie-zk9oj used to be back in the day... not anymore

[@Пинагод]

@@wesxd5292 Because they actually put soul into Kung Fu Panda 3. Even if it was inaccurate or surface-level, putting a wisdom and passion into it makes it count as more than just inaccurate or surface-level, sort of like the original Mulan too. The original Mulan was inaccurate and quite surface-level for Chinese culture, but it didn't matter in the end as it portrayed a beautiful message and executed it delightfully. Yet this adaptation was both inaccurate and passionless.

[@spectre9340]

I just think it's ironic that in their attempt at appeasing Chinese audiences, Disney misrepresented the beloved Ballad of Mulan, misinterpret a lot of Chinese culture, not have a single Chinese person on the writing team AND fail to have Chinese subtitles on Disney+.

[@Ramsey276one]

How do you fail so hard AT SOMETHING YOU EXPRESSLY SET OUT TO DO!?!

[@lmg-desi-yt]

Yeeeea, you can tell the makers of the cartoon version DID RESEARCH for awhile and didnt just look at everything for 5 minutes before moving on to writing

[@Everik-ct6pg]

@@imperfectundertakervods they both did (or do, I don't know). Hell, Disney made an entire movie about them going to south America to get inspiration for animations, “Saludos Amigos” from the '40s

[@dakat5131]

It's funny because movies for a while now have been said to have some of the oddities due to trying to make them better for the Chinese audience. This one doesn't even try to hide it, tries to go full blown "Look what we made! We know you! We made it just for you!", at the expense of other audience, and then got a poor response anyway. So all that for nothing.

[@dakat5131]

@@imperfectundertakervods Seems like some of the previous productions prided themselves on how much research they did to make sure they got things right. Stuff like this movie just throws that all out with what looks like rushed superficial references passed off as being respectful. With the tone that implies that because they "tried"(but didn't really) that they deserve praise. Which of course, they got called out on because they got stuff wrong.

[@dandeliondays5663]

It's an insult to the originally Mulan movie. It is.

[@yoghurtlord1745]

This murders the original film and dances on its corpse

[@razburry8001]

Every Disney remake is an insult to it's original.

[@soapbiter36577]

@@razburry8001 I will defend the jungle book remake. Even if you didn't enjoy it, it's still not insulting like some of the others.

[@longangrysausage3495]

Yes. Totally agree. It's disgusting and a total dishonor to the real story and the live action movie

[@xuanluu4873]

Is there a disney remake that’s actually good and doesn’t disrespect the original?

[@leo8812]

I pictured “live action Mulan” would have Eddie Murphy in a Party City dragon costume. I would have loved that.

[@Hayatehiroyuki25]

Thats better than a witch that can turn into a million CGI birds

[@sproutlune]

wouldve saved the movie

[@gemrock]

I would pay 30$ to see that.

[@xs2196]

Gem Rock -0,000,000

[@FearMonarch]

shit i would have actually paid money to see that

[@CompagnonDeMisere25]

1998 Mulan succeeds thanks to smarts and hard work. 2020 Mulan succeeds thanks to being born with superpowers.

[@JMB_Knight]

2052 Mulan succeeds thanks to being the daughter of God.

[@IrieTheGreat]

⁠@@JMB_Knight2088 Mulan succeeds thanks to being the daughter of Aphrodite

[@sadfish8841]

Honestly, I’d rather have a female side character with an actual personality rather than a main character with no personality

[@a-s-greig]

^That's a definite Edgeworth moment.

[@someonepassingby1635]

Your pfp is exactly my face when I watch Mulan 2020

[@agustdz-w9b]

why not a main female character thats actually written well

[@sadfish8841]

@@agustdz-w9b that's my dream. I want it so badly.

[@brandonfarley8279]

You want that: watch Disney channel

[@kingbash6466]

That moment when Disney “attempts” to be more respectable towards the Chinese and ends up pissing them off even more.

[@ambroseburnside1950]

You just gotta love karma

[@Ramsey276one]

Quoth Lily Orchard: "It's like trying to run up stairs and getting hit by a train HOW DO YOU EVEN DO THAT???"

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Don't quote Lily, please.

[@shawklan27]

It's hilarious to watch tho

[@js0219]

Thats what they get for not adding little dragon man

[@endercraft0537]

My favorite part of Mulan is how "A Girl Worth Fighting For" cuts into them seeing the ruined village. For the rest of the film they never sing again. Kinda cool tonal shift that I really liked.

[@jackdaone6469]

Indeed. Great moment that shows “shit just got real.”

[@mikeyangel420]

That scene still gives me chills It's an incredibly powerful and effective way to show the severity of war in a children's movie

[@MINGUS-g6i]

They didnt put any songs during serious momments to convey a sad and serious tone for the rest of the war scenes.

[@kirinbobarcana]

It also feels more real, as you feel just as taken off guard as the characters do. And you take in just as much as they do

[@loregoblin3854]

I really think that the live action movie was doomed when they removed Shang, aka, Mulan's character foil. basically, Mulan and Shang are, respectively, raised in femininity, and raised in masculinity. they even have parallel people to impress... Mulan fails early on to impress the matchmaker, and Shang is constantly watched, and his actions recorded, by this smarmy little advisor dude who is literally never impressed. this movie is a critique of both feminine expectations and masculine expectations... and Mulan's view of masculinity from the outside, is what affords her the perspective to realize when it isn't helpful or effective. what we know of Shang and his dad, is that his dad is a general, and Shang looks up to him. it might not even be his father's expectations that are set particularly high... but Shang is nervous about the idea of disappointing his father, and that's why he's so hard on his men. he really wants to whip them into shape, in a way that will fulfill everyone's expectations. compare that to what Mulan is here to do... she's here to save her father from being drafted despite his age and disability. she's breaking every rule by being here, putting herself at very high risk of getting found out and executed, and she's even willing to do something that goes against her father's wishes, if it will keep him out of harm's way. the scene with the burned village, and the scene where Mulan is revealed to be a woman, are a one-two punch of themes coming home to roost. in the scene with the burned village, Shang learns that his father died. it didn't matter how much Shang tried to impress his father... the masculine expectation that men go to war brought Shang's father to his death. and when Mulan is revealed to be a woman, Shang learns that she took her father's place in order to save his life... and it worked. Shang can't really call Mulan wrong for what she did. her father is still alive, safe at home, as a direct result of her actions, and Shang can't say that for himself. if there was a way for him to have saved his own dad, he'd like to think he would've taken it... but honestly, even if there was, he still might not have had the courage to go against expectations like she did. and then we see Shang faced with another expectation... when Mulan's gender is revealed, he's supposed to kill her on the spot. he doesn't do that though, and that's where we see the first indication of him starting to break with his own role as well. she's affecting him. Mulan is characterized early on as an out-of-the-box thinker, and it affects everything, big and small. initially, her problem was "how do I save my dad?" and she came up with an out-of-the-box solution. that goal of saving people she cares about is really the only purpose Mulan's actions need to serve throughout the movie, and if a gender role or societal expectation obstructs that goal, she'll find some way around it, because it's only a nuisance to her. and conversely, if there's a gendered quality or societal attribute that she can use to her advantage, she'll find a way to do that too. she even saves everyone, including Shang, with her plan to cause an avalanche... by the time she's found out to be a woman, she's more than proven herself. whatever she's doing is working, and her only goal is to return everyone around her home safely. with that in mind, it makes perfect sense that Mulan would choose to return home at the end of the movie. and when she does, there's one last trick that the movie has yet to pull with Shang. back in that era, when a woman was matched with a man and they were married, she would leave her family's home and go to live with her husband and his family. but Mulan left to fight, and her father is so happy to have her back in his home, that he casts aside the sword and the medallion. and obviously when Shang turns up at their doorstep, nothing very committed is forged between him and Mulan just yet. but looking at the situation... he shows up at her family's house, her mom and dad are there, her grandmother explicitly calls this "going to war and bringing back a man" and just to make it really clear, when the offer "you should stay for dinner" is made, the grandma says "you should stay forever!" and on top of that, the only family member of Shang's that we were introduced to in the movie is gone, so as far as we know, he might be in need of a family to return home to. this is a gender role reversal that ties in with the matchmaking expectations from the beginning of the movie. literally, if you take Shang out, you take out one of the big main pillars that supports this movie's themes. I absolutely cannot believe that they would leave in Yao, Ling, and Chien Po while snubbing Shang... like, don't get me wrong, I love all three of those guys, and they definitely pull their own thematic weight, especially with the drag part at the movie's climax, but Shang is arguably so much more essential, and deflates the movie's meaning so much more egregiously with his absence. (also, this is why Shan Yu doesn't have to be all that interesting. the main "villain" of this story is restrictive expectations... Shan Yu is just a threat. and the ways that Shang, Mulan, or anyone else is restricted, only makes it harder for them to deal with threats of any kind. the characters succeed when they refuse to let decorum dictate what they're capable of.)

[@supernova4226]

As knuckles once said "you know Amy every time someone brings attention to the breaking of gender roles it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by saying this is an exception and not the status quo."

[@phoenixmarktwo]

"What? Just because I'm a meathead doesn't mean I'm not a feminist."

[@zeldagameryt4018]

It’s funny how a freaking Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon knows more about gender equality than a huge corporation with billions of dollars

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

Sonic Boom has a more in-depth idea of gender equality than a billion dollar corporation who's main character is a fucking rodent

[@RogueT-Rex8468]

@@zeldagameryt4018 can’t compare them. One has passion, heart and a soul.

[@zeldagameryt4018]

@@RogueT-Rex8468 and the other is Mulan (2020)

[@FillaneAmmisto]

Disney: we want it to be more real Also Disney: let's include magic, arrow kicking and Chi

[@dakat5131]

Seems like the "We wanted it to be more realistic" thing in their remakes only manages to cover for removing things that were actually fun- while ignoring all the other junk they've added in.

[@braxtongirtman3674]

When chi isn’t even magic, it’s life in every person and things. Think of it as a soul. And the sorceress doesn’t even make sense because technically in ancient China witches were normal and even praised if anything into powerful positions in court. If her being shunned, it were to happen she would’ve been called a fox spirit for using “dark magic” then outcasted but not a witch because the term witch is different and eastern culture versus western culture.

[@Zack-fu4lo]

@Wasabi Lover chi is basically the eastern version of mana. There’s a difference between the two but yeah

[@bread64]

Me and my dad hated this remake it was just really really boring I kept checking the time thinking an hour has passed but only 20 minutes has passed its that boring

[@NewbyTon]

They even contradict their own pandering message _oh women can do anything like a ma-_ *"I know my place"*

[@rodrigomateodelgadodelacru8154]

Also *women can do anything as long as they have magic chi powers*

[@waewae]

If you're a normal woman like Mulan's sister, you still have to adhere to what society wants you to do.

[@doyoueverfeellikeaplasticb2703]

"If you aren't born with special powers, then you have no place in trying to break that norm. Go do what you're supposed to"

[@minespatch]

Happened in the Star Wars sequel trilogy as well. Rey asks Kylo "to show her place"... I don't think Disney knows what kind of message they're peddling.

[@NerdX151]

That is what happens when you try pandering to both the sjw crowd and a totalitarian regime.

[@lmg-desi-yt]

Funfact: While the rest of China back than gave girls limited chances, the Huns on the other hand were the opposite. The boss hun (cant spell his name) fought Mulan as an equal even after finding out who she was. He never questioned why a girl was trying to fight him, and when she revealed herself he specified "Soldier" not "Man" bc for huns, men and women had capabilities for battle as soldiers or generals (too bad they never showed that aspect in EITHER movie) They done did Mulan like they did the last air bender, DIRTY AND SERIOUS

[@RooftopRose079]

When the enemy is more progressive-you wonder if you're fighting on the right side.

[@KevinKess]

Are you referring to Shan Yu (originally voiced by the late Miguel Ferrer in the 1998 animated movie and currently played by a voice actor named Corey Burton), by any chance? If so, then... that might be the person you're talking about.

[@danicleckley5404]

Lol. He was like, "Boy, girl, or dog - I will kill you!"

[@MirandaSinistra]

I'm not sure it's fair to say neither movie showed this, wouldn't 1998 Shan Yu referring to her as the soldier from the mountain allude to the Huns view on male and female soldiers?

[@SteveCrafts2k]

There is no movie in Ba Sing Se.

[@stacie1595]

I'm so mad they cut Shang (among other things) because Shang has genuine stakes in the war and has to grow in similar ways to mulan. He's also trying to prove himself and find his place but is forced to take on more responsibility when his father dies, leaving him in charge. People don't give him enough credit as a character who's on a quest to find identity and self worth just like Mulan.

[@mks9469]

I know you made this comment a year ago….but I agree. I just re watched the cartoon again the other day. One of my absolute favorites!! I have not even watched the new one and I have no desire to.

[@diy_cat9817]

Absolutely, his arc ran parallel to Mulans and was vital to the story. Mulan and Shang BOTH learned how to "be a man" for lack of a better phrase. Both had fathers they wanted to make proud.

[@chichizzz]

The Kung Fu Panda trilogy respected Chinese culture more than this, not to mention how it was more well received by Chinese audiences as well.

[@lessismore8533]

Ikr???

[@lightyagami4535]

This movie is the anti- Kung Fu

[@drewnames651]

kung-fu panda as a trilogy should not be compared to anything disney is making now days specially not this kung fu panda started amazing, debatably surpassed itself considerably on the sequel (something quite a few fail hard at doing), and the third part was a little bit debatably worst than what came before, perhaps remarkably depending on who you ask, maybe even there are those who consider it better, but ultimately, it did justice to the entire franchise, and paid respects to what it took inspiration from *this, insulted mulan. and also insulted all of china irl. literally*

[@BlinkyBopsB137]

Ya.

[@ananyasampathkumar3832]

apparently kung fu panda was so loyal to culture that china was confused as to how it was so accurate and respectful. they didnt know how they hadnt even made a movie like that. plus, they were the first animated movie to get different facial expressions for the chinese dub. (i think? i’m not 100% sure on either of them but i heard about it from cosmodore i believe)

[@homestuck_official]

Fun Fact: Live Action Mulan's sword's engraving not only is historically inaccurate (usually it'd either be a sentence or a family name, not just three random words), but also it's the FBI motto. I'm not kidding

[@catcher881]

gaddamn

[@abandoned---channel-o7b]

What? That's just plain weird.

[@a-s-greig]

"Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity." "Loyal, Brave, True." Story checks.

[@Mike14264]

Da fuq?

[@pixiedust6630]

Oml

[@mamaya311]

What's even worse is that, if you think about it, Disney is starting to have a double standard with its "heroes". Think of all the male superheroes that have significant human flaws a la Tony Stark, and then all the female superheroes have to be these perfect Mary Sues?! I find it just as insulting as being told to be a perfect bride.

[@adamb2216]

Additionally I noticed this pattern where they seemingly cannot have the female lead learn from a male (elder/superior/what have you) Like Belle is now an inventor and her dad is just a sad clock maker widower (no longer an inventor). Mulan 2020, couldn’t learn the basics of combat from her father, that’s just from her in-born chi. She doesn’t really learn with the men in her camp, because she always had the ability thanks to the magic of chi. Captain marvel, where carol’s mentor and idol was marr-vel gender-swapped in the film version. I don’t get it, I’d be curious what mental gymnastics are involved in being allergic at depiction of such a relationship. I think Mulan 2020, just did it the most blatantly and even other lefty/progressive reviewers have to acknowledge this isn’t great story telling. It’s NOT because you have a woman in the lead or being stronger/smarter/whatever. Just that these characters are flat cardboard statements.

[@vtn05001]

Lets hope Black Widow changes that for Marvel

[@바보영어]

I totally agree as if us woman still aren’t being told enough that we need to be perfect or have one really unique thing about us such as super power because pffft “women need a hero who has powers because that’s relatable right?” I really hate how in cinema we are still being seen as this perfect being who doesn’t have personality and lacks anything in common or relatable to us girls.

[@pauladudleycreatfeat]

Same. They don't care about feminism or equality, it's a room of old corporate execs desperately trying to pander to us, with no idea what they're talking about or doing. It's insulting.

[@jake4725]

@@pauladudleycreatfeat im glad you feel that way

[@haku8135]

Oh yeah, I forgot something. In this version, there was no reason for Mulan to replace her father in this draft. The captain fellow says straight away anyone that doesn't live up to their rather high standards will be sent home. In the original, Mulan was only told to shove off because she was basically useless at everything. In this movie her father, who is even older and more frail than the original, would certainly have been sent home quickly. In the original he was subpar, but he wasn't nearly as bad an option as Mulan. He WAS a soldier, and Mulan is just some random little girl with no experience doing, ANYTHING relating to war. Hell she doesn't even have experience in manual labor. Why would THIS Mulan need to replace her father if their standards are oh so high? If their standards are so high, why would they recruit an old man in the first place?

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

Bear in mind, live-action Mulan has different motivations and values than animated Mulan. Live-action Mulan has magic that would make her a great warrior, and she what she desires is the chance to prove herself as a super awesome warrior; she has to put aside that desire to honor her family and culture. This Mulan sees replacing her father as a chance to be the fighter she feels she is meant to be; she probably would have gone regardless of whether it would have spared her father. But to address your original point, there are two possibilities for why they'd still want Mulan's father... 1. They're just that desperate. Considering Boring Khan and his forces actually have magic abilities this time around, and the Chinese troops are shown to be massacred, the recruiter might have been willing to just take anybody, then later put the weaker ones in other roles than direct combat. (though, considering Dad couldn't even stand for long enough to accept the conscription, I'm not sure what role he could be put in...) 2. He might be brought along for military advice. He does exposit that he served in the army in past battles, so his experience could be useful for strategizing. (this one also falls apart, though, since if that was why they wanted him they would have sent Mulan back when she/"he" is carrying Dad's conscription and Dad outright said *that he had no sons* ) ... Not that either of these would help the movie in any significant way. It's still garbage.

[@Light-at-Dawn]

OMG 😲 you're right. This movie became even more nonsensical and stupid after I thought we hit rock bottom 🙄

[@teresar6348]

They copied that whole "[insert anything wrong here], Penalty: Death", from a Chinese Mulan film and they still found a way to screw up the stakes by giving a method of expulsion. Part of the point of the animated was that Shang spared Mulan against custom because she had saved his life and not been a problem at any point after training. No one but that one secretary wanted her end, so they left her behind so she could 'get away' as far as anyone else would know. The Chinese Mulan (I believe its called "Mulan: Rise of a Warrior" and has an english subtitled version on youtube) film that Disney plagiarized some segments from lets her have1, 2 friends later who know her identity. Then she fights FOR WELL OVER A DECADE eventually becoming a general. She makes some great moves & bad ones that cost lives. She gets the final kill needed to end the war and retires. Bitersweet

[@artbytesia]

​@@Light-at-Dawn *facepalm*

[@diamondmetal3062]

My friend once told me a bit of wisdom that I feel applies to this: “As a creator, if your audience is in complete agreement about something, you have either succeeded or failed miserably.” This is definitely the latter, since everybody from West to East seems to agree that this movie is unwashed garbage.

[@BapoBoompa]

Unwashed garbage has better quality than this.

[@Silancet]

A literal pile of crap has better quality than this

[@DemonicRemption]

@Diamond Meal Your friend sounds like a smart person. Because those words are so true.

[@magicsoup3265]

@@nikhita280 why would a few people at all matter in this. Most people hated this. Almost no one liked it.

[@alexcrazyart6522]

Oh well, at least the garbage reminded me of the value of the original.

[@Hayatehiroyuki25]

I hate that the ending spits in the face of the original. Mulan's father says initially that he didn't care about his lost sword and that none of her actions mattered to him, he was just happy to have her back. THEN the army comes in and says "The emperor made you a sword," and the father's like "The Sword says you are all 3 virtues! You have brought honor to us all!" At the very least, they could have reversed the two scenes. Have the army come first to hand Mulan the sword and have her give it to her father, only for him to throw it on the ground and say that she brought honor to her family even without the emperor's sword. I guess Im just echoing the original...

[@lmg-desi-yt]

That woulda been so bad ass. But no. A flat scene. Just oof

[@PlaystationSimmer]

The original scene was perfect: She returns, immediately saying she brought back gifts from the emperor, and hands them to him. He pauses, tosses them aside then pulls her into a hug. It was literally perfect

[@dakat5131]

@@PlaystationSimmer Those previous films had simple, effective scenes. The films they make now seem to constantly get in the way of telling the story, and manage to say everything and yet say nothing.

[@Allustar]

The original’s ending was much better though. At least it didn’t totally undermine the message of the movie.

[@dimini4267]

The biggest slap to the face was when Mulan just threw her father’s armor away. Because not having any protection and having your hair flow in the wind is so empowering...

[@weekachawchaw6304]

"i'm not like other girls" - the movie

[@kitkatcarebear7170]

She isn’t even a girl she’s a robot

[@nohintshere]

@@kitkatcarebear7170 not even robots are this bland

[@memyselfandi7782]

@@nohintshere *wheezes* It HAS NO FLAVOR!!!

[@MoonLight-zj8iu]

I didn't realise this Mulan had snake arms

[@thedeskman08]

I have *snake arms*

[@genzi78514]

14:45 here's another problem. It's small, but shows the mentality many amateur writers have: they confuse edginess with maturity. In the original movie, we can see the corpses. But it's still a movie featured for children, so we have our main characters foreground and the corpses are on the background. Mulan 2020 put the corpses on the foreground and the main characters on the background because "wE r n0t f0R chIldREn!" mentality. But, ironically, in the children's movie, they show better the horrors of war. They didn't want to show dead bodies to children, so they decided to show us the characters expressions: horror, sadness, even nausea. All of them react in some way, and it doesn't matter if they are comic relief or an antagonist or background nameless characters. That's one of the reasons that scene is so memorable, because many times we are more shocked by how other people react surround us, instead by the horror itself. And if we add that scene is a huge contrast with what we see previously...there are not more songs (this song cut one), they changed the colour palette to more red and less green and blue until the end, and they also change the soundtrack from there. But Mulan 2020, the only thing I think is...oh well, those are dead bodies. Moving on...

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

^ All of this, plus... It isn't a new sight for the audience, either. This scene came after several scenes of the Borons (or whatever they're called) massacring outposts and defenses. We have seen the force that did this, we have seen how they do it. No build up or tension, just repetition. The original smartly built up to this moment. While we've seen the menace of the Huns in a few scenes, we don't quite see what they're really capable of or willing to do until this one shocking moment. THIS really hammers in to both the recruits and the audience how much of a threat the Huns are.

[@Aredel]

It’s like they took that scene from Season 3 of Game of Thrones where the Northmen enter Harrenhal, but did literally everything wrong with it.

[@P.H691]

If I was told to recreate the scene in live action, I would add more scenes of soldiers walking around and being horrified. If you have seen what humans can do to one another, you know what I mean. Have a soldier seeing a destroyed home and corpses and puking, or soldiers dropping their weapons from pure shock. You are making a more mature version of Disney’s Mulan, lean into it! I expected soldiers to have their will strengthened and their emotions had to be put aside to make sure no one suffers anymore, but oh no, let’s do tell don’t show in mulan 2020

[@sarahmargaret6498]

The part where you mentioned Mulan does find a girl worth fighting for, that being the little girl whose doll Mulan found, was brilliant. I never thought about that but you’re so right. That little girl, killed by the Huns along with everyone else in the village, is who Mulan is fighting for. It’s not about protecting just the emperor, it’s about fighting for everyone, for all the innocent lives taken by war. That’s so smart and beautiful and I can’t believe I never picked up on it like that

[@sarahtaylor4264]

I didn't think about that before either, but damn. That adds another layer to that scene and helps flesh out her motivations. She went to save her father yes, but didn't go home when Shang gave her an out because she wanted to prove her own worth to herself. After her sex was discovered she fully intended to go home. She instead chose to go to the city because people she cared about and her country wete in danger. She was the only one who knew. She could have let them deal with it after how they treated her, but she is a better, stronger person than that. There's too much to loose and too many people who have suffered already. That doll is the perfect representation of this motivation. I hate how this film reduces her to I know my place and must protect Emperor-sempai. Where is the struggle, the personal risk, the inner conflict, the 2nd thoughts? They have NO IDEA what made people love Mulan in 1998.

[@zorskie]

Plus that doll was found directly after the song 'a girl worth fighting for', so extra points to the ORIGINAL makers for that timing

[@RooftopRose079]

@BK Show don't tell. Your message will be far more powerful.

[@mickeymousewithouttheclubh6584]

Same. That's one of my reasons I love Mulan. It makes you go back and watch it again to see the things you've missed and see things in a new light.

[@MirandaSinistra]

Honestly I really liked Shan Yu, he was ruthless and cunning. The scene of him inspecting the doll shows this very well. But my favorite scene of his was his reaction to Mulan revealing she was the one who killed all his men. It didn't matter to him whether Mulan was a man or woman as he refers to her as 'the soldier from the mountain.' I don't understand why they felt the need to make him misogynistic in the new version when he wasn't in 1998.

[@sevencool2266]

I always wondered what his background was like.

[@multilad816]

I don't think the villain, Shan Yu, is weak

[@furrypupsangel5446]

One review of Mulan 2020 (don’t remember which one) sums up how they feel about Shan Yu and I think it fits really well. So basically the review stated Shan Yu isn’t a villain, he is a device that moves the external plot forward. The real conflict was with Milan’s inner turmoil with herself and who she is/is supposed to be. Adding that they have subtle details about how much a threat Shan Yu is, that you don’t even fully realize it until someone points it out is amazing in my opinion. It creates dialogue for people to discuss and talk about. Just blatantly stating/telling the audience, “Oh look Shan Yu is so resourceful, look at such a menacing person he is” like the audience is too dumb to even subconsciously realize it is insulting to your audience. Not to mention that it kills any dialogue that might happen when discussing the movie. I honestly didn’t realize that Shan Yu did this stuff until you mentioned it. Then it was like a light bulb moment where I went, “OMG! He does do that in the movie!” I knew that he was resourceful and a big bad that Mulan would have to face, but I didn’t realize how much he was that till now.

[@ShinkuGouki]

Misogyny and making villains and victims out of normal people is the norm these days. Are you living under a rock? They persistently create victims out of people and also create a boogeyman.

[@mickeymousewithouttheclubh6584]

Shan Yu is amazing. Every character in the original Mulan is amazing. I would go as far to say that Aladdin as a 'live action' was amazing as well and added alot, it's still inferior to the cartoon but, is a well respected to be considered good. The Mulan live action didn't do that.

[@nikkilengyel]

Disney: We will make a chinese movie, be very culturally sensitive and historically accurate and stuff, not like that dumb cartoon. Also Disney: Has 4 writers for the movie, none of them Chinese, has magic, parkour, a witch, 21st century political ideologies and historical revisionism, because we're Disney, and people will watch it anyway.

[@jsb6975.ah.crapbaskets]

Clearly not this one. About damn time too.

[@lol-bm7ey]

I don't think they need to be chinese, they just should have been more accurate and made her less of a mary sue ._.

[@muslimmetalman]

Where’s the revisionism?

[@hellothere2464]

@@lol-bm7ey I think having Chinese writers would be far better, just because they’d know much more about the culture and it’s intricacies compared to someone that isn’t a part of said culture.

[@lol-bm7ey]

@@hellothere2464 Well yeah but they still don't need, and I mean need, to be Chinese for it to be good. Just don't go "ohmagah feminism" and screw the whole thing up alongside that. They would have been just fine. Also it's quite rude for the person who wrote this comment to call it a 'dumb cartoon', it was a classic lol

[@supergingerr]

The one scene that sticks with me from the original Mulan is when A Girl Worth Fighting For just stops and we turn to see the ruins of the village. It’s such a perfect tonal shift. It painfully forces you and the characters to snap back into the reality of their situation, it doesn’t lead you into it by stopping the song before or fading it out...it. Just. Stops. They didn’t come close to this in the slightest in the remake.

[@bonedude666]

It doesn't have any form of transition into the tone shift, but you can pinpoint the exact moment the song stops. Such a memorable scene.

[@ZeusMakesDoodles]

And in the live action remake it just cuts to the ruined village while they just speak over it then it cuts to another scene… what is this damn movie

[@caniaskyoukindofaweirdques7053]

It’s interesting that you mention that, because ‘A Girl Worth Fighting For’ is actually the last song that plays in the whole movie if I’m not mistaken. It was a very well done shift, sets up the upcoming conflict and it doesn’t feel forced at all.

[@sorashirogami1729]

Even better, Mulan finds her 'girl worth fighting for' in that village, the owner of that little doll that she (or Shen) found. She fights for the common people of China. Which is an amazing detail that has no reason to be cut off from the film.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

@@sorashirogami1729 Especially when she claims to the witch that she now "knows her place" and it's to fight for China and protect the Emperor. Keeping the doll bit would have made that declaration make so much more sense: instead of some confusing and kind of disturbing sense of obligation to people who have done basically nothing but oppress her, she could be declaring that this isn't about her or what she wants, but about people who need her help... from people like Boring Khan and the witch. It could have been really good, but as it is it's just dumb.

[@jaycraw6978]

"The greatest gift and honor is having you for a daughter" never failed to make me tear up. They trashed on it with the live action, but hey, if shes a Empowered woman her dad can't love her right?

[@heyscalefin]

My partner originally didn't wanna watch it but i made him, and he ended up loving it so much and teared up badly on that scene.

[@Zarmdthecoolest]

Mmmmmm daddy issues

[@Cityweaver]

@@Zarmdthecoolest Yep. A relatable and common issue. Kinda fitting for a story about a woman joining the army to prevent her father from dying senselessly in it.

[@Cityweaver]

Mulan's scene, Zuko reuniting with Iroh, and now Bruno reuniting with Abuela in Encanto. Perfect trope. Love it every time.

[@KlutzyNinjaKitty]

@King Wobbegong, Sea Urchin Farmer - True. However, to the other movie's credit, they're just ~1.5 hr movies. Avatar had three season's worth of content to establish Zuko and Iroh's bond. Avatar's got the upper hand there.

[@Troopertroll]

3:34 What. Mushu got Mulan her soldier name, helped push her through training, prevented the Trio from discovering her, tricked the army into going to the front, lit the cannon that caused the avalanche, stopped Mulan from freezing to death and gave her moral support when she was banished, *killed Shan Yu* , etc. Source: I played Mushu in a Mulan show

[@gjk-arts5855]

Troopertroll oooo who was cricket

[@fangirldreamer748]

XxGJKtale AnimationzxX cricket was an actual cricket!

[@gjk-arts5855]

Fangirl Dreamer XD

[@PolevayaMysh]

That's right! Mushu wasn't just a comic relief, he drove the plot forward a lot.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Sexism won. DId you missed it? Let me remind you what exactly happened: Mulan was born as a God. Female God, of course. So the System was right to say Woman cant do like Man at all. She's the absolute Exception - no other female Chinese could have done what she did. It cant be done by others. So trying is obviously useless. Get it? If you're a Woman and not born as the Chosen One, trying is futile and even ridiculous. You could never hope to achieve what Mulan did. SO THE SEXIST SYSTEM OF THE NATION WORKS!! It's right! Sexism WINS! Get it??? Mulan was just the Exception and if you're a Second-Class Citizen, just keep your head down!! Oh, and fun fact: This highly funded project only hired chinese actors, which is dumb enough, but then they did not filmed it in Chinese or in Chinese AND English, but no, only in English. Well, that alone is weird.

[@cittt2590]

Shang’s “position of power” also was never an issue in the first place because he NEVER abused his position of power! He only ever pursued her outside of the army, when the power dynamic didn’t apply- and he was cute and nervous and wholesome about it. The “power dynamic” complaint was such a disingenuous move. Disney didn’t care about providing actual female empowerment in this remake- they wanted to do a surface level, bullshit faux-empowerment facade so they could profit off of the feminist movement. Gross.

[@2Ten1Ryu]

Also, Shan himself had to prove himself or wanted to prove himself to his father, was not taken seriously by the Emperor's scribe and was under a lot of pressure to train the new recruits with war already being upon the country. When they found his father dead, he wasn't even allowed or given time to mourn him. At no point was he a toxic male, just a guy facing the struggles typical for his gender role in society and his status as a member of a noble military family

[@halinaqi2194]

Shang is really progressive for the historical time period the movie is supposed to take place.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

Also, if we're being technical it was Mulan who asked him out.

[@10kwithzerobitches20]

@@annieandelsieofarendelle3294 that’s the funniest part 😂 It was so blatantly obvious that Mulan was the one that had feelings for him that weren’t reciprocated. This movie is such a challenge to wrap your head around

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@@10kwithzerobitches20 Well, I wouldn't say unreciprocated but Shang was perfectly professional with Ping and Mulan.

[@ultrafox4005]

I despise the actress not only for her statement about her supporting Hong Kong's police brutality but then immediately assumed the position of a victim by saying, "You can all attack me now." Which is quite possibly the most spineless thing I've ever seen in my entire life.

[@JaggedBird]

Exactly. Let alone how much she said this film was close to the original poem. Kill me

[@eglantinepapeau1582]

i don't care about her supporting the police , that's her right . However , her "acting" and the movie itself are unforgivable

[@ultrafox4005]

@@eglantinepapeau1582 Yeah, it is her right to say and support whatever she wants. But, people also have a right to reply, react, and judge accordingly. And the fact that she acknowledged that she would be "attacked" for what she was about to say, tells me she knew she about to piss a lot of people off.

[@ellahere2300]

It was assumed that the Chinese government forced her words, and threatened her with her entire position anywhere in China. This would mean she would not even be able to earn money for survival (Her insurances would also all be canceled), as they did this to multiple other celebrities, though the other celebrities all had an international reputation, which highly reduced the possible penalty to their lives unlike her. But yeah, her acting was shit.

[@goddessofchaos2679]

@@ellahere2300 yeah I don’t understand why ppl think she said what she said out of her own will it’s the ccp u can’t say shit out of pocket with them

[@cil_lee]

This movie wasn't even a big part of my childhood growing up, and I'm still offended by the remake.

[@Loudshark_]

Same, but I still watch the cartoon and pretty much love Mulan. The real-live action is just cold water slap in my faces

[@ricky18redblack31]

It doesn't make any sense and I still agree with ya.

[@Author.Noelle.Alexandria]

As someone who was a child in the 80's and literally was told directly to my face that my favorite subjects--math and science--were "for boys," a movie showing that a young woman was able to buck the oppression of not being able to be herself since she had to fit in means a LOT. It hurts.

[@toilettube8063]

I never watched the movie, and I’m offended by the remake

[@drawnwithlove3499]

Mulan is me and my sisters' favorite movie. Once my sisters got out of the hospital (recovered from dengue), they went to theaters with my grandma to watch this movie. I can't imagine how disappointed they'll be when they watch this remake. But then again, they liked Frozen 2 so idk

[@Tirannie]

The worst part about Disney pandering to “me too” be removing Shang just goes to show that Disney doesn’t understand the movement or what constitutes messed up power dynamics in the workplace. Quelle surprise.

[@visassess8607]

You can thank the whiny idiots on Twitter for all of this. It's common sense that a business will play into what's popular for money and they did the same with all the incessant bitching about "diversity" and "representation" online.

[@RocketShipSquid]

@@visassess8607 I sort of agreed with diversity in movies. It would be better than seeing a completely white cast even if it doesn’t fit the roles of the characters. but what disney did by removing a major character just to get good ratings backfired

[@dean._.0.0]

@@visassess8607 Wanting diversity and representation means writing stories and characters with real depth and human traits. Hollywood doesn't understand that and just pumps out highly stereotyped diversity with no real everyday human characteristics. It's not diversity and representation that is the problem, its lazy writers and lazy Hollywood.

[@zeljanajozic9801]

Literally, companies are stopping to employ women because they are "afraid" of #metoo instead, you know protecting women and not assaulting them?

[@hopsymopsy8352]

@@visassess8607 It isn't "bitching about diversity and representation" it's trying to explain and hold people accountable for misrepresenting women and poc along with whitewashing everything. Their poor writing and failure to incorporate a good character that is a poc woman is on them and they should be called out for it because basic research and literally going to said poc women to get personal experience or critique should be the basis if they themselves have no clue how to represent the individual. Instead what they actually did was make a poc woman through the eyes of a white man with little research and care. THAT'S why it came out bad. not because people on a social media platform voiced their opinions based off of lived experiences.

[@我是一个人-e4p]

Seriously, I’m a chinese and this is really stupid. Apparently there is going to be another film from Hollywood about chinese culture. The Chinese don’t really have high expectations for it. And “chi” does not mean you are special. Everyone has “chi” it’s like blood, you just need to practice it to make it greater.

[@aonairskies]

what will that movie be?

[@jazmine1608]

Chi is basically "life force" and literally is in EVERYONE, like blood, so saying "You're chi is strong, but you must hide it, chi is only for warriors." is basically saying "Your blood is strong; you must hide your blood; blood is only for boys." Like wtf?

[@chriswentz5197]

So i can drink chi?or i can donate chi,does i have a special bone that create chi? (Just a joke question,and yes we have a blood creating bone,the femur)

[@spacetacos7574]

It’s disgusting to be honest

[@ShinkuGouki]

Exactly. Chi is an energy everyone has,just like blood. We must meditate and practice in order to build strength. Mulan on the other hand has magical powers. She didn't have to train or anything.

[@lissaylissean9940]

My absolute favorite moment in Mulan is when she realizes that she cannot accomplish her goal of reaching the top of the post with brute strength. The film is very honest. It doesn't obfuscate the reality that women are physically disadvantaged; we have smaller frames, less muscle mass, smaller hearts and lungs, etc. Most films would either ignore it and pretend otherwise or would introduce a (usually magical) equalizer. Mulan chooses to, instead, teach us that women can use our ingenuity to overcome obsticles in our own way. Mulan uses her lithe frame and superior dexterity to shimmy to the top. It was so inspiring to me as a little girl.

[@Thatonebrownhuevito]

And what makes Mulan so special than the remake is that she wasn’t a marysue with powerful magical powers. She was a ordinary girl that trained hard as a soldier to prove herself that she haves what it takes to fight for China. SHE DEFEATED THE HUNS WITH A CANON AND SNOW. Then went one on one with the villain with a fan to grab his sword! She fought like a woman and a man without any powers! That’s why she is one of my favorites!

[@doolittlecraftsmann302]

To quote Jumanji: Sarah Whittle: A little rain never hurt anybody! Alan Parrish: Yeah, but a lot can kill you! You're definitely underselling the scene.

[@doolittlecraftsmann302]

Why did I write this?

[@miguelruiz4613]

@@doolittlecraftsmann302 were you drunk?

[@ethan142]

@@doolittlecraftsmann302 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

She also used her mind to compensate for her powers wich makes her keep up with the men and even start the avalanche in the first place wich was a risky move for her as well, barely saving herself

[@shinkaiatsuya950]

Disney: This isn't your childish cartoon. This is adult, live action, and mature. But we still want your nostalgia so we can make money.

[@carrieon2912]

Laughably, the cartoon version is much more mature

[@Puki9117]

@@carrieon2912 Mainly cause every scene of the 2020 remake is laughably bad

[@egg_l0rd13]

For a second, I thought the title said “2020 is a failure in almost every way” Still would’ve been accurate

[@bett1826]

Except for minecraft cave update, of course

[@slevinchannel7589]

Sexism won. DId you missed it? Let me remind you what exactly happened: Mulan was born as a God. Female God, of course. So the System was right to say Woman cant do like Man at all. She's the absolute Exception - no other female Chinese could have done what she did. It cant be done by others. So trying is obviously useless. Get it? If you're a Woman and not born as the Chosen One, trying is futile and even ridiculous. You could never hope to achieve what Mulan did. SO THE SEXIST SYSTEM OF THE NATION WORKS!! It's right! Sexism WINS! Get it??? Mulan was just the Exception and if you're a Second-Class Citizen, just keep your head down!! Oh, and fun fact: This highly funded project only hired chinese actors, which is dumb enough, but then they did not filmed it in Chinese or in Chinese AND English, but no, only in English. Well, that alone is weird.

[@bradleybolden689]

@@bett1826 and steve in smash

[@spreadelmo]

@@slevinchannel7589 what

[@chebic5095]

Excluding Stove in Smash that isn’t too far off

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

I think the sister concept could've worked if it was her OLDER sister. Just imagine, Mulan had a sister who had already proven herself to be every bit the proper, demure, and delicate woman society expected her to be with a husband and a child on the way to show the contrast between what Mulan wants and what society expects of her.

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@TApexGenshin Yeah. Her older sister was in the original ballad, so it would work.

[@Hexatunes]

As someone who's Chinese, the movie was a complete pain to watch. My other family members who are also Chinese had similar opinions. Not only did they basically screw up a lot of things in our culture, but it felt like the heart and soul of the original was no longer there. This could've been so much better if they just got more Chinese people on the team that knew a lot about the history and culture and stayed more true to the original in terms of characters. Either way, Disney screwed up

[@lessismore8533]

Yup

[@MightyYoungSir]

in liked the movie about the girl and the pet snow monster

[@kingagrabowska9366]

No matter how good it would be I wouldn't watch a movie which was filmed where people are being practically tortured.

[@navigatormother7023]

I've read some Chinese women authors and their work is breathtaking and visionary in many cases compared to Western literature (eg.Pearl Buck, Jung Chang and others.) This movie was an insult to women in general but to Chinese women especially... I know who ended up "losing face" at the end of the day in the Disney world. The backlash said it all. We have learned a little more about respecting each other as women through globalisation and media.

[@fakrulabdullah]

@@MightyYoungSir it that monster inc?

[@braxtongirtman3674]

Chi isn’t even magic, it’s life in every person and things. Think of it as a soul. And the sorceress doesn’t even make sense because technically in ancient China witches were normal and even praised if anything into powerful positions in court. If her being shunned, it were to happen she would’ve been called a fox spirit for using “dark magic” then outcasted but not a witch because the term witch is different and eastern culture versus western culture. And can we talk about those three Chinese charcters on the sword. Like they literally have nothing to do with each other, they are just three random characters that were just put on there like some western Soldier’s sword. In traditional ancient Chinese if you were to put characters on your sword, they would have a message like “honour for my country” “fight for my emperor” “long live China” and stuff like that. Not “Peace, Justice, Virtue” “Honour, Tranquillity, Virtue”. Oh and we have the same name lol.

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

How did they try to appease Chinese audiences while getting so much wrong about Chinese culture?!

[@braxtongirtman3674]

@@sadsadtearsofaclown859 I ask myself that everyday. But there is SOOOOOOOO much more that they got wrong that it hurts.

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

@@braxtongirtman3674 I will never understand why they don’t hire a few Chinese people on the writing team who actually know something about the culture. Then it’d be more accurate but the acting would still be stiff.

[@cameronwilsey9334]

It's not that the term 'witch' is different, it's that that are different concepts to which witch is the closest western translation. It's like the Japanese kami being translated as god despite being a very different concept

[@braxtongirtman3674]

@@cameronwilsey9334 Yes that’s what I said. It’s a totally different concept of witches being of high standing verses being evil, but if you want a similar concept to the western “witch” then you’re looking at a fox demon. As someone who grew up in Asian culture and sees the differences, it’s astonishing what the rich old white man, who owns it all, will do to promote their agenda with the premise of ✨diversity✨.

[@kriskris5907]

I'm all for reassessing how relationship dynamics are portrayed in light of the 'me too' era, but if anything, Mulan and Shang are a PERFECT example of how to navigate a power dynamic amidst romantic attraction- they're supportive and behave appropriately around each other while within the power structure, and ONLY act on their attraction after Mulan is no longer under Shang's command.

[@di7209]

With how Disney treated their relationship in Mulan 2 giving it the boomer couple who hate each other vibe we should’ve expected this but alas

[@danmakes2497]

THIS! Yes, they only started dating when she no longer was part of the army, and just themselves. Not even Shang as a commander, but just him. (And sadly the Me too movement was started with a good cause and to do good, but now it's being run and turned into an unfortunate state and doing more harm then actual good.)

[@Quackervoltz]

@@xuniepyro7399 You're a joke

[@Пинагод]

I had a really big problem with this because it's clear that Mulan and Shang's respect and love for each other isn't caused because she's a subordinate and he's a superior. And guess what? Women can be subordinates and have crushes on their boss, while the boss would be completely oblivious to it. To have this standard where because he's a man and her boss should imply it's problematic is highly damaging, not only to the actual problems of power dynamics but to the men who just want to live themselves. There's been an ongoing trend of male bosses being afraid of being alone with female co-workers and vice versa, so Disney just hit multiple birds with one stone with this one.

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

In all actually, using the logic these people want to use, it was MULAN who was "using her power" to get with Shang. Mulan has the respect of the fucking emperor. She's the second most important person in all of China, aside from the emperor himself. She's 100% above Shang in rank. And yet I don't see anyone point that out. Because it doesn't make any fucking sense

[@silverscorpio24]

I actually liked Shan-Yu. No he wasn't very deep, but he was VERY intimidating and brutal and you felt like he was a real obstacle to all the good guys. And my favorite part is when realized Mulan was the one who killed most of his army, he's simply angry; not disgusted that she's a girl, no disbelief, nothing. 90's Mulan was less sexist than 2020 Mulan.

[@Tkokat]

Original: It doesn't matter that I am a girl, with hard work I can accomplish everything. 2020: I'm a woman! I am empowered, and independent, I don't need any training! It doesn't matter that I'm a Mary Sue, was that a personal attack?!

[@gachanoob9121]

And that's why i choose the original over the new one

[@tenelum9865]

“And I’m only powerful because I was super lucky and got superpowers!”

[@carolinewald3109]

@@gachanoob9121 me seeing this: let’s get to the OG!

[@ДинараАппазова]

I mean really, even in my comics, those I wrote when I was 11, there were women characters with personalities and growth arcs, not just "I am a woman, and I am strong, but suppressed!" , it is not a rocket science to do, Disney!

[@ipcortez88]

She didn't get super powers...she just channeled her ki/chi...it explained in the beginning of the movie...she was just able to tap into it better than others...everyone in the movie had ki/chi...

[@danwashere8771]

I don’t what’s more messed up the fact that Disney thought it was a good idea to film there or the fact they saw no issue with filming there when it’s literally a concentration camp

[@theinsurance2450]

It's almost like left ideas are bad. Hope this starts to awaken people.

[@theinsurance2450]

@Sama Badawi like the genocide of unborn babies in the womb.

[@theinsurance2450]

@Sama Badawi unborn is just a stage of life development. It is still life genius read a book. It is equal to born life. Just how a young adult is equal to the elderly. To killed them is against human rights.

[@theinsurance2450]

@@pluvi3054 yes how dare us stop parents from killing their children. The nerve. Also it is parent not parents. The dad has no say.

[@theinsurance2450]

@@pluvi3054 if the camp is forcing abortions I'm against it of course

[@MariusWales]

Disney: We're making a more progressive and realistic version of Mulan that will appeal to Chinese audiences. Mulan 2020: A film shot near re-education camps about a person with Jedi-like powers starring an actress who supports the people of Hong Kong being beaten into submission. Disney: ...What was our goal, again?

[@marioplumber3378]

IQ = 0

[@MirandaSinistra]

Their goal was to make money and they failed at that too lol

[@MariusWales]

@@MirandaSinistra HUZZAH!

[@year111]

China money of course.

[@alissonlares2926]

Progressist and realistic does not bind, does not relate in any level.

[@Katie-md7mh]

disney takes themselves too seriously. Disney taught me so much as a kid. I didn't have the best household, so I learned how to empathize and be kind through Disney movies as a kid. Old disney was goofy yet powerful

[@smt64productions40]

That's good old Disney did that Also a part of me think you made an unintentional pun for saying Goofy :/

[@P.H691]

You know what’s stupid, an edgier and more serious version would’ve worked, but that required actual good writing and careful consideration. You can’t just combine edgy stuff and woke shit and expect it to work. You need to find a good balance between social commentary and edgy shit, but the glue should be proper characters you can relate to and care about.

[@bailey7792]

K Im sorry, but if you can CGI an entire beast for Belle.. then someone could've CGI'd a tiny Eddie Murphy Mushu dragon... and a damn cricket. Not turned the cricket into a guy named cricket. Wtf?

[@Puki9117]

Disney did it for the Chinnese audience

[@lessismore8533]

@@Puki9117 and look what happened.....

[@lessismore8533]

Ikr! Mushu should've returned!

[@obijuanquenobi1911]

They did that to appeal to the Chinese audience yet they managed to do the complete opposite

[@soycamlol]

Please, even in the first few scenes where tiny Mulan is “jumping down” from the rooftops, it doesn’t look one bit realistic and you can definitely tell they used a rope to carry her down.

[@puraqua.7626]

At least 98' Mulan worked her ass off to the bone to ACTUALLY obtain her fighting skills, near to giving up and wasn't the strongest in her group yet, 2020's Mulan just does nothing but have a random girl from her village with "cool" and "awesome" feminist powers.

[@anon9469]

Not even feminist, but rather, what a soulless corporation thinks that feminists would like to see. They ripped the heart out of the "women can be equals with men" message by giving her an extrinsic ability that made her just better than everyone else, men and women alike.

[@puraqua.7626]

@@anon9469 exactly. That’s what makes the whole movie a dumpster fire.

[@kyleroman2744]

@@puraqua.7626 I think Disney read to much manhua and their repetitive plot and took it seriously and make it worse. At least in manhua, they are seen to develop, grow and strategize.

[@kibble24]

It should be noted that most of the feminists I know didn't like the live action version

[@shadowjab1747]

Not having that little red dragon makes this movie immediately fail.

[@azurneon]

I don't know it's name, but he was a part of the movie... The Live Action movie doesn't count as a movie to me

[@shadowjab1747]

@@azurneon I can't remember his name either,but I know I loved his presence in the movie when I was a kid. With him gone I knew the movie would be changed into some sort of unrecognizable mess. Yeah, this was definitely a cashgrab from Disney

[@ValenArtsAnimation]

@@shadowjab1747 his name is Mushu

[@shadowjab1747]

@@ValenArtsAnimation 👍

[@Midnight_May474]

@@azurneon are yall talking about Mushu? (Idk how to spell his name) that's the tiny red dragon

[@MrDwarfpitcher]

That Monty Python comparison at the 14:00 point. Perfect. Perfect example of a movie that wants itself to be taken seriously but comes over as unintentionally comical. This is the kind of stuff you cut out and keep in mind for deleted scenes just for laughs

[@greenhat8978]

Which Monty Python skit was that from

[@Erik-co3zs]

@@greenhat8978 Monty python's holy grail

[@xojocelynxo]

i'm still so mad that this movie took out the most important relationship in it...like why would you take out her and her father's dynamic, god that shit makes me so mad

[@mach1275]

Quick note for the Uighurs: it’s pronounced “We Grr”. It’s important we pronounce it right, since the PRC is trying to erase their culture, so pronouncing it right maintains it just a tiny bit.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

Are those camps still there?

[@slevinchannel7589]

I personally try to sabotage those who try to de-power woman or make sick propaganda for perversion by reporting on youtube disgusting stuff. LIke Wet T Shirt Contest or the Strategy (much of it on KZbin) to Use lesbians for Marketing. Entire channel are specialized on it. Specialized on Making Views and Money with Boobs and Asses. They dont even hide it, like they did years ago. Nope.

[@comedicpsychnerd]

MASTER-OF- EVIL yes

[@Lh0000]

@Comedic Psychologist God damn it China just let them have an identity!!

[@Mr_Jester980]

What they done to the Uighurs is unforgivable. If I ever being forced to choose between eating chocolate-flavored pizza and going to China, I'll take the first option.

[@omniomelet1472]

Mulan’s facial expressions in the original:🙂😔😄😁😆😳🥰😠😡👿😬😊😏etc... Mulan’s facial expressions in the live action:😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐 and occasionally we would get:👁👄👁

[@microwave8931]

No, no, you missed 😒

[@omniomelet1472]

Microwave lol

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

Yess!! The acting was so wooden in the live action remake.

[@sincerelysomehumaniguess7610]

my girl really out here lookin like a 👁👄👁 face i swear

[@cofeespear4992]

Apparently that's cause the actress who plays her don't like to do many expressions cause she doesn't want to look ugly or so I hear

[@zero-chan1830]

Thank you for talking about how stupid the Chi thing was. When I was 9 I joined karate because of Mulan. When my older brother quit taking lessons with me I didn't know if I could do it without him but Mulan did so I could at least try. I earned my black belt because of Mulan. If this was the Mulan I'd grown up with I would've never joined cause I'd have felt like there was no point in trying unless I had super powers to help me be as good as the men.

[@clfyx08]

I remember when I was younger I had to go do this surgery thing. The doctor asked if I were scared, I said no, doctor said why. I responded with "Because Mulan was so brave and awesome!!! I wanna be like her 😍!" Same thing with your story, if the new ver. came out when I was younger and I watched it, I would have felt like I could 'poof' the doctor away with magic and make myself 'perfect' and 'fearless'🥹

[@DrDolan2000]

Surprised you didn't go with kung fu. Was it unavailable?

[@zero-chan1830]

@@DrDolan2000 Yeah I'm from a pretty rural area, there weren't many places to choose from

[@Murr248]

“I Don’t care about the children, I just care about their parents’s money! The fact that their feeble minds are easily manipulated by cheap live action remakes, that lack the magic of the originals, is no skin off my nose”

[@lmg-desi-yt]

When I read that I heard Mr Crabs voice

[@muhammadfaizmohdnasiruddin9854]

@Drive Check. and just like Mr Krabs in that episode, Disney is also losing the money they were chasing after in the first place.

[@justint8851]

Yeah that's probably what Bob Iger is saying

[@lessismore8533]

Lol I Love spongebob nice job quoting!

[@lessismore8533]

@Drive Check. amen!!

[@afterpasthours7504]

“I was persecuted for being different, they were afraid of my powers, I can never live a normal life.” I dunno, have you tried maybe...NOT using your powers? She can shapeshift and possess people, you could just turn yourself into someone else and live a normal life. Oh but it has to be “boohoo they can’t accept my mystic magic boohoo.”

[@despinasgarden.4100]

Or she can fly away to new lands and try there, i mean she can FLY and is a WITCH she is clearly strong.

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

At the very least, why the hell is she a toadie to a rando normie dude? If I had awesome magic powers the last thing I would do is get bossed around by a dude I could kill with no effort.

[@ntfoperative9432]

@@nightmarefanatic1819 seriously, she should be the leader, not the Shan Yu rip off

[@chocomelo454]

If they needed the "they hate my powers" thing for her, they could've hit up Laika or watched Paranorman. That movie does it very well. In the movie, the big bad is a girl who was executed for being a "witch", all she did was talk to ghosts she could see. So they could've made it so the witch couldn't control her powers, such as pull an Elsa, maybe when she has extreme negative emotions she'll cast an extreme negative spell or something like that, maybe when she gets angry she ends up killing plants around her from the negative energy, so then the people around her are scared of her powers because they view it as a threat, making her feel like an outcast. Is easy.

[@andreeacat7071]

@@chocomelo454 They should’ve made her a mischievous spirit that is only on Bargain Bin Shan Yu’s side because it just seems the most fun to her. Not every villain needs a ducking redemption arc.

[@jooree7696]

How Disney made Mulan: Disney: We'll make Mulan a girl power movie! Random guy: Yeah, but Mulan is already girl power Disney: We'll make it more girl power! And also we'll appeal to chinese! Random guy: But do you have respect for something aside from their money? Disney: Nah. It will be a hit and that's what's important. Now go to the computer, calculate the trends and write the script Random guy: Sorry, but that will take away comedy, songs, equality and Mulan will have powers Disney: YES

[@Ramsey276one]

Congratulations You failed SUCCESSFULLY! XD

[@angelicsakura4928]

Welp, I'm watching NOT because they're taking away the songs

[@egon2499]

Saying that Mulan is strong for having chi is like saying that she's strong for having blood. Because in Chinese culture, everyone got chi and not only heroes.

[@JMB_Knight]

They even fucked up the reason why she is better and more gifted than everyone in the movie amazing

[@midgetwthahacksaw]

Mulan was the character who me AND my sister related to the most growing up. Mulan's in my top five of favorite Disney films and remaining even my DAD'S favorite Disney character. God, I remember seeing it for the first time in theaters and coming out just loving it. My Dad, to this, day, will stop what he's doing and watch Mulan WITH me. We are both grow ass adults but, we still will watch this film together and have a fun time. Also, I have this memory as a little girl when I watched the film when it came out and looking at my Dad and saying, "I'd go to war for you, Daddy." My Dad said he about cried, so he gave me a hug.

[@rockhistoria2537]

Aww, that's sweet!

[@annakozuki8950]

Most wholesome comment here

[@pencilRC1]

Goddammit live action remakes are ruining good memories. I can’t believe children will grow up on these, where will you get these sweet sentiments then?

[@isda3314]

@@pencilRC1 exactly

[@hilmiya3454]

Aww Fuck live action :,)

[@miguellemir242]

I actually belive Shan-Yu and the Huns are somewhat underrated: hre you have an army of competent and fearsome warriors that dont require comic relief, silly goofballs or songs. There was a quiet confidence and competence about them, specially in the scene where they analzie the doll: This showcased tehy were experienced, ruthless and methodical, this something actually rare on the villain side, shwocasing them as actually competent across the board which in turn makes Mulan nd her gang of msifits victory over them all the more satysfying underdog triumph.

[@zoazede2098]

Exactly!! I would love to see more of them, and I never get why people doesn't love them the same way as I do, it's just because they don't sing???? Aside the fact that they are competent, fearsome, serious, tactical, smart and skillful in many regards, have beautiful and amazing designs, they are never shown as sadistic psychos, think about it, they were shown as basically an horde, they weren't unnecessarily or unrealistically cruel, they used terror tactics (a common thing in the steppes folks), leave no one that could go back for revenge, and even when they came back after the mountains fight, they went to the imperial city, they could have go for the army remanents to kill them in revenge when they were weak, but they continued to what they went for, even when they were in the imperial palace, they didn't kill any innocent (they only wanted the emperor), and Shan Yū wanted him to surrender, showing him respect, and only tried to kill the emperor when he saw that he would never bow to him, the Huns were AMAZING.

[@zangetsu1614]

This, absolutely this! Not to mention, the Huns were supposed to be a "second" conflict that would only be adressed once the main and bigger one (Mulan's self discovery) was solved. Hell you can see that right in tat scene where they are singing and marching, almost like a happy adventure rather than soldiers going straight to their future burial place, when they get slapped right in the face with that whole destroyed town and Shang's father gone... That scene alone tells us way more things than the whole sunk toilet we got as live action. God, i love the original movie haha.

[@asalways1504]

Right? That scene from the original where they’re fighting the Huns on the mountain and they just appear on the mountain top towering over them by the thousands what is so epic especially on the big screen!

[@rysynashalothlusurpateur577]

Personally ; i love Shan Yu just because with just a few scenes here and there, the team come up with some ideas to show the type of man he is. A brute force of nature who is served by competent subordinates and want to crush the empire of china. That's it. He is not as great as other bad guys in disney's movies, he could not be well described and complex given his time on screen. But he do the job. What i appreciate with him is how he appear in the movie ; during the scene in the mountain he appear like a shadow along his army, in contrast with the white snow. How he hides and reveal himself on the roof of the palace in the latest scene. How his expressions goes during his talk with the emperor. He is not great, but they do what they can with a few scene, and he is well defined in his simplicy. And when i think of a villain, i always think of Shan Yu because he is well designed, well explained and the embodiment of a true menace coming down on the protagonist. And some people just tend to ridiculise him because of his extravagant facial features...

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

In a deleted scene Shan-Yu kills one of his own men that tried to hide a baby bird

[@Jpinkyfan]

The irony of this being the most controversal movie in China. WHEN ITS AIMED FOR THE CHINESE AUDIENCE

[@a-s-greig]

_Mission Failed Successfully._

[@Puki9117]

@@a-s-greig At least it made an splash

[@iwatatiff]

I'm Chinese and this movie is so culturally incorrect I had to Leeroy Jenkins myself out of the cinema

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Based

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

At least you have chicken.

[@henryconner3002]

Walt Disney himself was a person that exists, he made some big mistakes, but at least he made consistent film lineup for his entire life. Modern Disney is basically Walt Disney if he had worse issues he never got over, and I guarantee is a garbage person in real life

[@adultmoshifan87]

Disney's worst offenses in recent years are their live action remakes (of films that were meant to be animated), their additional Star Wars trilogy (even JACK AND JILL isn't as bad a movie as The Last Jedi!), their Fox buyout (they already own too much), their 2017 Spider Man series (it's an awful rehash of the story of Peter Parker) and Disney+! (Disney+ made the streaming market more saturated, and influenced WarnerMedia, Comcast and Viacom into launching their own competing streaming services!)

[@bsgsmusic3451]

@@adultmoshifan87 Dude, you do not need to use an exclamation point every sentence to get your point across. The point of an exclamation point is put emphasis on a sentence, but when every sentence ends with a exclamation point, none of them do. All it does it make you sound juvenile and arrogant. Also, do you not know how competition works? No shit if one company takes advantage of their library to make a streaming service, other companies will follow suit. You're just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[@SmoothCriminal12]

@@adultmoshifan87 Just thinking about Disney getting Fox gives me an anerousm. Now watch them try and make a PG-13 Deadpool.

[@liviwaslost]

I've been thinking that Disney has been in an identity crisis for a long time. They want so many things in their live-action movie but never settle on what they want. Thus, making mediocre scattered movies. It's like reading an unedited essay.

[@mr.froglegs]

@@SmoothCriminal12 that already happened bro. Once Upon A Deadpool came a couple years ago and it was an edited version of Deadpool (2, if I remember correctly)

[@E3WEINER]

I was actually looking forward to a more “realistic” version of Mulan. Then I saw the stuff about Chi and the witch turning into a bird and I lost all hope.

[@randallmokjialung3592]

There's a more gritty and realistic verion of Mulan from 2016 (correct me if I'm wrong)

[@jodielou]

Same!! I was fine with no mushu if it was story of a woman becoming a badass warrior but then I saw the shape shifting witch and was PISSED!!

[@EvripidouM]

Same. I loved the idea of a realistic story

[@berengustav7714]

"Gritty war" annoyingly bloodless.

[@ishathakor]

there's a 2009 chinese film called mulan: rise of a warrior that's also based on the ballad of mulan and it's a realistic version

[@gilbryamt]

You gotta admit that this film really is “Bold And Brash”

[@azurneon]

Good one

[@StardustNovaChannel]

More like belongs in the trash. Ha ha.

[@XCosmixs]

Like belongs in the trash

[@trixabellian]

More like belongs in the trash

[@ValenArtsAnimation]

More like belongs in the trash

[@jenniemochixo]

Shan Yu has one of my favourite Disney Villain lines maybe ever I think - the moment where he and his men capture some of the Chinese soldiers and her just says "how many men does it take to deliver a message?" with the very strong implication they just shot one of the Chinese men for the sake of it gives me chills every time.

[@MargaretRodriguez9GenY]

Shan Yu and his crew are my favorite Disney villains too! I'm always surprised people say they are forgettable. I mean, sure Shan Yu's motive could have been fleshed out a tad more, but what we got is still great, imo. I'm also surprised Disney didn't make Shan Yu sexist towards Mulan. He wasn't even insulted that his men were taken out by a women.

[@insulttothehumanrace3807]

@@MargaretRodriguez9GenY "By building his wall, he challenged my strength" That's enough motive for me, at least for a villain: wants to prove himself the baddest chieftain of all by conquering this great nation. Sees the wall keeping him from what he wants as a challenge. And as many people, even a few commentators here, have pointed out, Shan Yu not being sexist makes the empowerment stronger. He doesn't see Mulan as just a woman, he sees what she was capable of. "The soldier from the mountains..." then immediately perceiving her as the main threat and focusing all his anger and killing intent on her... that's a level of recognition and respect that beats out beating any number of sexist pigs. (Also in Hun/Mongol tribes women sometimes also hunted or did other men's jobs, so Shan Yu would be no stranger to strong and capable females)

[@esthergrnwd4608]

Let'face it. It was probably the worst movie disney ever made.

[@meredithinthemaking4195]

*cough* Artemis Fowl *cough*

[@ethelann]

Homer's voice: Worst movie disney ever made, so far

[@uniserenity1414]

Weeeeellll, I don’t know about the worst but it’s definitely in that category

[@MrSircharles05]

It's definitely in the top 10, at least. Maybe even top 5.

[@carl7810]

Morally speaking, yes.

[@SourRobo8364]

Kilian Experience said it best. "Americans, what do you like about the original movie?" "The music and Mushu." "We're removing those."

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

"Well we also like Shang and Mulan's relationship with him" "Ew, that's PROBLEMATIC, we're taking that away too" "Oh well, at least they won't take out something as important as Mulan's personality and her triumphant struggle against both society and her own character flaws" "Women having flaws and struggling is literally the patriarchy! We're DEFINITELY getting rid of all that!"

[@phoenix0166]

@@nightmarefanatic1819 surely they won’t remove the well written plot right? Surely not! About that…

[@Пинагод]

@@nightmarefanatic1819 Sucks, because everyone else in the world enjoyed that too. Even the Chinese.

[@bonedude666]

@@phoenix0166 "Well, at least none of the actors are controversial." Disney: "So, this lady said she supported police brutality, but we already started filming, so, we're keeping her."

[@phoenix0166]

@@bonedude666 that is a bruh moment

[@bumblebeeproductions1673]

The message of the live action movie: “Learn your place, women...except if you have magical powers” #BoycottMulan

[@blondebimbowannabe]

SoOo eMpOWerING...not. Fuck Mulan 2020. The animated version was so much better in the message it gave to young girls and boys. I was so dissapointed by this remake.

[@bumblebeeproductions1673]

@Tropical GLOW worst when you realize the actress for Mulan supports the police in China (or Korea can’t really remember tbh) that they can hit innocent people and stuff

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

@@bumblebeeproductions1673 she supports Hong Kong police brutality

[@bigtree0079]

@@sadsadtearsofaclown859 what the actual fuck. how did you make despise this movie even more?

[@sadsadtearsofaclown859]

@@bigtree0079 u wanna know something worse? They filmed parts of this movie at concentration camps

[@denimvelvet4670]

The Mulan (animated) story has many themes. One being how Mulan basically starts at the bottom wrung of society where the best she can hope for is to be a man's wife and to bare sons. One she was ready to accept just to do right by her family. Wanting to do right by her family, and keep her father alive, she joins the army. The movie ends with her having the Emperor himself and all of China bowing to her. That's growth. That's story telling. These new movies are like really terrible fanfiction with a multi million dollar budget.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

imagine making fanfiction of your own previous work, disney _how_ -

[@mexa_t6534]

“Disney is complicit to genocide” I...I never thought I’d read a sentence like that, but here we are.

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

They say the same shit about companies like IBM since they sold some computers to the Nazis before WW2 broke out. It's really pathetic. Also I am tired of the term genocide (among others) being used so liberally and broadly. People use it because is has (had at this point) an impactful meaning attached, now it has been turned in to buzzwords and milked for all they are worth sucking all meaning out of them.

[@Robin-jk6wz]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark Well, no. If what is being reported is true, then what China is doing _is_ genocide by definition. Neither the US or Canada committed a Hitler-style genocide campaign against the Natives, but both countries have done genocide because they sterilized Natives by force. In case you are curious about the definition of genocide this is how the UN's Genocide Convention defined it, DEFINITION OF GENOCIDE IN THE CONVENTION: The current definition of Genocide is set out in Article II of the Genocide Convention: Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf

[@di7209]

@@DrewPicklesTheDark It is genocide though it’s an accurate term since they’re killing a whole ethnic group by physically stopping them from reproducing which will mean that after this generation dies there will be no more of them other than the children who were taken to be made “proper” Chinese citizens

[@destiny_ultimatedork675]

I honestly wonder how Disney has not gotten the idea that we will never accept their live actions films and that they should go back to caring. But of course since they think they're all high and mighty, they just sit back and watch the money roll in.

[@fellowspacemarine]

Because for some fucking reason they still make millions off these cause the "casual audience" sees something they associate with good and don't understand how propaganda or real film making works and thinks "oh disney! Disney family fun good and I remember these from my childhood with big nostalgia brain!" So blame...families..I guess

[@egm_myles69]

The only two live-action Disney films I think are the best are the 2016 Jungle Book and 2015 Cinderella.

[@kamanyiro5903]

I know right! I honestly was hoping they would continue past some cancel movie projects,seriously I have heard about them and sound pretty good,or they could remade another fable. BUT oh no they had to get the slice of live action pie didn't they?

[@fellowspacemarine]

@@kamanyiro5903 um are you fluent in english? If not that's fine, I just have no idea what you just typed

[@kamanyiro5903]

@@fellowspacemarine Sorry,I tend to rush when I am typing. What I was just saying that they should of stay clear of live-action remake,stuck with 3d or preferably 2d animation and restart old cancelled projects or use an old fable but they didn't.

[@tannazs6398]

As a female AND a feminist, this movie was terrible in every possible way.

[@tannazs6398]

@Mister Metokur feminism has many schools of thought :) Unfortunately, many of them have lost their validity...hence why you feel the term has "lost all good meaning." With that said, there *are* still some groups that maintain the essence of what the word truly means.

[@guysplease1879]

The remake isn’t feminism it’s Mary Sue supremacy and Disney tryin to act like they don’t use women to further the plot in most of they’re movies other than Disney princes and are only there to aid the male protagonist...I hate it as an Asian lgbt leftist it get 0/10 stars from me chief

[@elmohead]

Mulan is not about girl empowerment, it's about filial piety. Stop whitewashing Mulan.

[@ismailkeskinklc5300]

@@tannazs6398 an actual feminist? Impossible I thought that the feminazi nation got rid of all of you

[@Fun-K-Board]

@@elmohead How is female empowerment white washing Mulan?

[@anothergamer112]

"He has power over [Mulan] as a captain." Yeah, that's how military works. He also had power over all the men in the army too.

[@sorath1396]

"We aren't so different, you and I. Join me, and together, we will rule the world." ~ Every villain ever

[@rhyscallinan3680]

"But my generic loyalty refuses because i fight for generic reason" - every good guy ever.

[@OswaldAurelia]

"No, Hiro-san! Don't listen to his lies. He's a monster, and you fight against monsters. You're a hero! You're...my hero..." ~the bland love interest when the hero is about to join the villain

[@undeadprincess5726]

"Come on, man! This isn't you! The villain just wants to use you to do their evil deeds!" Every bland sidekick ever

[@carmenwest4832]

"Until I eventually betray you....... JOIN ME"

[@Kayley199514]

5:23 "in trying to pander to one movement, Disney upset another". Id say they upset both because they fundamentally misunderstood the problem with people in power coming on to people underneath them. Its a MANIPULATION issue. A COERCION issue. Not a power differential issue. Even if Shang was above Mulan when they do get together, he never uses his power as a way to manipulate her into a relationship, or comes on to her in a way that makes her scared to say no because of his position

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

True, we never see Shang act unprofessional about that and by the time they appear to be heading towards a relationship, Mulan is no longer in the army and thus is no longer under Shang's command. By then his position would offer no coercive leverage over her, even if Shang wanted to.

[@crowthewicked8344]

@@JamesTobiasStewart Plus, she wanted him to stay and invited him for dinner.

[@Oodelally]

Mulan is a film about how men and women are equal Mulan: “I KnOw mY PlaCe”

[@Omnywrench]

Its baffling how this movie seems to have completely missed the underlying message of the first movie. In the original film, Mulan's greatest strength was not some corny chi magic, but her creativity and ingenuity, finding new and clever ways to achieve her goals. We see it early in the film when she uses her dog to feed the chickens faster, then later we see her get the arrow off that pole by rappeling with the weights. An in the climax, her comrades learn from her outside-of-the-box thinking to get into the palace, using the previous rappelling technique as well as disguises to sneak around, thus saving China from the Huns. It shows the true folly of sexism: when you arbitrarily render half the population as inferior, you lose out on gaining new insights and ideas.

[@awesomewow4714]

Honestly, this movie is completely unnecessary, even more than every other Disney remake. There was already an amazing live action Mulan movie (Hua Mulan, 2009) that was realistic, more mature and actually following Chinese culture, and the relationships between the characters are very developed. There is no Li Shang either, but the male lead is also great. I seriously recommend it if anyone wants to watch a good movie instead of this garbage.

[@nahicorua]

Wait there really was a live action prior to the 2020 remake? I thought it was just a fever dream that I had lmfao I do remember bits and pieces, it's not by Disney tho right?

[@Tirnel_S]

@@nahicorua no, it's not by Disney. I believe it's on KZbin somewhere and it's good.

[@shadowrise8713]

"Disney is now complacent in genocide!" Is the most 2020 thing I've heard all year

[@redjirachi1]

At least the 1936 Berlin Olympics were done before what the camps were doing became an open secret

[@FoxyAreku]

I was more upset about Shang being removed than Mushu. How you gonna replace one of the main characters??

[@XJunixAnnexKayxScarX]

Not well apparently

[@LotteLattes]

I was equally pissed about both

[@oneheckofabanana2016]

MULAN AINT NEED NO MAN THEY SHOULD HAVE INCLUDED SHANG JUST TO MAKE HIM KISS MULAN'S BOOTS

[@eatatjoes6751]

Honestly, *NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.* So, you good, man. Also, I do find it ironic that the actress supports oppression when the movie says, "Oppression is bad."

[@alexandrajuel4812]

What I love about the cross dressing pillar climbing scene, is that the song that is playing while they do it is called ‘We Are Men’. It’s just so full circle, and honestly made me emotional. Seeing Mulan’s friends value her more than their commander, and drop most of their masculinity like Mulan drops her femininity, in order to save China WHILE STILL BEING AMAZING?! AND WHEN SHANG JOINS THEM IN CLIMBING THE PILLARS! disappointed he didn’t wear a dress, but still. It shows just how Mulan evolved throughout the movie. That scene was a golden move from the animated film.

[@SpagettiSpeltWrong]

Bisexual Shang moment?

[@sapphiree.unordinary]

Disney: We’re taking out all your favourite characters and songs to make it more “realistic” Also Disney: Haha magic chi goes brr

[@romeoiiihidalgo9516]

I am asian and I'll explain chi. It flows in everyone not just guys quote from the movie "Only the most true could connect to his chi first of all it would be better phrase as "cultivate his chi" and 2nd so you have to be honest to yourselves to cultivate your chi I've never heard of that. Its always hard work. Hard work is what matter when cultivating your chi

[@bruceboom369]

Mulan has the power of god and anime on her side

[@avivastudios2311]

@@bruceboom369 😁😁

[@exaltedfalcheon1793]

@@bruceboom369 AAAHHHHHHHHHHH

[@thegaminggirls2154]

Y’know that really iconic hair cutting scene that literally everyone who watched Mulan remembers? The live action removed that scene because it wasn’t accurate for Mulan to cut her hair since men in that time also let their hair grow out (at least that’s what I heard) So they removed a super iconic and cool scene because it would be culturally inaccurate…… then proceeded to make worse and even more culturally inaccurate scenes to replace it I think it would have been better if they’d just left it in At least that would have been a cool scene (and something I’d love to see in live action though I’m not sure how they’d do it since it’s actually pretty hard to cut your hair while it’s bunched up with only a sword)

[@that1nerd756]

Someone else said that it actually made her animated self more interesting and realistic, since criminals actually had their hair cut as a punishment, and so the reason everyone assumes that the reason "Ping's" father doesn't talk about him much is because "he" broke the law and "his" father is ashamed of that.

[@thecrazyape7051]

Here's the part that makes it fun. Back in the olden days, even if they got alot wrong, most of Disney's creators had to actually travel and learn about the places they were working on. In some way or another. People like Favreau and Caro just looked up youtube videos and google images for research and went to the latest hashtags to pander and just said: Done! We got it down.

[@agentdon1760]

Yeah even as a mythology fan a lot of shit in Hercules is wrong from both Greek and Roman mythos...but hey it didn't stop them from making a movie that is generally enjoyable. Fun fact did you know the actual story Aladdin is Chinese

[@morninggloom8391]

Honestly, for me it’s a matter of suspension of disbelief. I’m ok with suspending my disbelief for the inaccuracy of the original Mulan because I loved the movie, but I suspend my disbelief a lot less for movies like Heracles because I just didn’t like the movie.

[@midnight4685]

Apparently one of the writers did go on a paid trip around Europe to look at... Chinese artifacts in museums? And I think around China too. But in this case, I feel like they could've just hired even one Chinese writer because of how insanely well-known Mulan is there. The ballad is apparently taught in primary schools. Just seems a bit odd.

[@rusticgiraffe4262]

Oh yeah! 😆 I forgot that they actually got up close and personal with real lions when they were originally making the Lion King. Bringing in an expert on Chinese culture probably would have made at least a little bit of a difference in this mess of a movie.

[@jeisselima]

@@rusticgiraffe4262 To be fair I think that hiring even a random chinese person that had access to Chinese education would had made a difference they literally made 0 effort

[@Hrairoo555]

If Disney makes a "realistic" live action Pinocchio, what body part is going to grow longer? 😱

[@junkyyard2273]

I'd say a dick but even that thing is much more realistic than their films.

[@AA-nr7bi]

Was going to like but I didn't want to ruin the 69

[@notfurry4259]

Plz no ;-;

[@Bopperann]

No no, they'll replace him with a girl puppet who don't need no man. Edit: I forgot to mention the puppet would still have a penis.

[@JamesonMcLeod]

Why did I have to see this comment

[@TheRadude]

Speaking of Shan Yu. I also thought he was a bland villain until I realized something years after watching the animated Mulan. The movie is about people trying to prove something. Mulan wants to prove that she can do things that men do. Mushu wants to prove that he can be a great spirit guardian. Shang wants to prove to his father that he can be a great general. Shan Yu wants to prove that he is the best warrior and general. He took the Great Wall of China as a challenge; something to prove that he can overcome.

[@lessismore8533]

And the all succeeded...except Shanu of course lol

[@lissy2533]

I love this point but I would I would say that Mulan wanted to save her father from military conscription and prove that she was capable of bringing honour to her family As much as defying traditional gender roles is a main theme in the movie, I don't think it was ever her motive, just something she achieved in trying to protect her father

[@rhyscallinan3680]

You can tell Disney is running out of ideas and originality when all they can do is make inferior versions of themselves. Also I can understand why the original Mulans villain was bland. The story was set mainly on Mulan and co. and few scenes for the villain. But the remake or whatever gave more scenes on him, and more screentime so you'd think they would try to improve on him. But they wasted it, and made the problem worse by adding a second bland as well. And it being a woman I knew they'd go with the "I'm bad, but strong Independent Woman Protagonist said something and now I am good" thing they do in such a bad way.