Setting Preamp Gain Correctly

[@BenjaminRCook]

Hi Drew. An interesting thing to note about the -18 mark for setting gain: Summing two uncorrelated signals will raise the average level by roughly 3 dB. Summing two uncorrelated channels at -18 dBFS will get us to roughly -15 dBFS. Summing four will get us to -12, eight to -9, sixteen to -6; summing thirty-two channels, uncorrelated, and each set to -18 dBFS, will give us an average level of -3 dBFS at the output. If we take that up to all forty channels available to us on the X32, then we get an output of -1.97 dBFS. So by setting our gain to get an average level of -18 dBFS, we can run every channel wide open with roughly 2 dB of headroom at the end. Almost as if the engineers at Behringer knew what they were doing :-)

[@DamonZenDrummer]

This might be the most helpful you tube comment in a video I’ve seen . Thank you . I’m totally serious

[@NFLBiz]

👌

[@Daysofsamara]

Only with mono signal with same frequency spectrum, with same dynamics and transients, ignoring pan law, effect return, dca, gain compensation, eq and filters ;) The -18dbfs "rule" don't come from berhinger engineer. Actually, if you read the manual, you'll see that X32 nominal level is actually -19dbfs. Page 68 : Non clip maximum input level = +23dbu Knowing that 1.23 volt = 4dbu = nominal level And, +23dbu = 0dbfs So 4 dbu = -19dbfs = 1.23v

[@BenjaminRCook]

@@Daysofsamara ...Yes, ignoring all that, because there's no way the designers would build a console that doesn't clip when you shove coherent 1k tones through every channel with max makeup gain and DCAs pegged to +10. Is this a joke?

[@Daysofsamara]

​@@BenjaminRCookI'm pretty sure that a 1k tone set up at -18dbfs on input one, pan center don't give a -18dbfs signal in the master buss. The X32 pan law is, I believe, a 3db pan law, that means that in the master bus, the signal, centered in track one is reduced by 3db as long as it remains in the center. (-21dbfs) I don't have an X32 right here to test, but, pretty sure pan law is 3db. If not, and pan law is 0db, then a full panned signal is 3db quieter. In short, they didn't choose -18dbfs for the possible summing of 40 signals. They choose -19dbfs because that's the nominal level of the preamp they use in that console...

[@tygrwolf]

Great helpful video, still waiting on one for crowd microphones, unless I missed it.

[@Gladingson1]

Your teachings are very understanding and you are such flawless in the sound world, Am glad I met you here Sir

[@DrewBrashler]

Wow, thank you!

[@MatthewMcFly]

This videos timing is perfect! I just noticed our Sanctuary gain structure is super low and figured the amps were running too hot.

[@kyleworley4047]

I've slowly taken over as the main engineer and experiencing the same thing. I can make it work and sound good, but it's not optimal. This was definitely helpful and I think we too, need to look at our amps being a tad to hot.

[@MatthewMcFly]

Glad I am not alone. My challenge on fixing it is that we do not practice in the space. It is a traditional service so they practice in the choir room. Probably going to set up recording to do a virtual sound check for tweeking.

[@kyleworley4047]

@@MatthewMcFly that's would make it difficult without that rehersal time. Recording and doing a virtual sound check would be a great option.

[@HajongLee]

the underrated importance of unity gain!!! your tip on setting percussive instruments a little hotter so that the body of the sound comes through better was very helpful!

[@DrewBrashler]

Thanks so much! Glad it was helpful!

[@kyleworley4047]

Great reminder of the importance of gain structure and even more so on the X32

[@DrewBrashler]

Absolutely!

[@davidbadrak6811]

Good Vid, Something that I learned a little too late into my mixing life but already did naturally. This is something that needs to be taught to every beginner

[@DrewBrashler]

I couldn't agree more! Thanks for watching!

[@MyGloriousMess]

Extremely helpful, thank you Drew! As always, clear, precise, and practical information!!

[@ConquerMedia]

Thank you! I also would be interested in a crowd mic video

[@DrewBrashler]

OH that is a good one, I'll add that soon!

[@alanstewart8216]

I always find that some of the musicians always keep volume up their sleeves. It's a royal pain to remix after reducing gain.

[@RadityoPramAdi]

I just learn about that yesterday.. I plug straight to mixer from my digital multi fx.. level is wayy too high. A passive DI with -20db pad solves that issue.

[@NateJDrums]

Thank you for this video. Not sure why it didn't cross my mind to turn the PA down, its not like I need to get approval, lol.

[@LINKERS_SOUND_TRACK_LST]

Can u make a video demonstrating difference between GAIN & TRIM.. i just love ur videos ans the way u demostrate everything in detail... Thanx in advamce..🥂😊🙏

[@DrewBrashler]

Yes! Just added this to my list! Thanks for the suggestion!

[@tsaudio365]

What would be the best way to mix audience/congregation mics for FOH/Broadcast and the best way to mix with choir mics for FOH/Broadcast (Video Idea)

[@mrovi789]

This is the correct way of doing it, seen and done setups where is done tunning and you are on edge of feedback all the time. This way you make sure that you dont get there.

[@DrewBrashler]

😅 so true. Just was working a gig where the whole band played 12dB hotter during the performance. Luckily I was mixing broadcast so my limiters were just going a bit more heavy, but that is always a fun experience to start adjusting the gains down mid show. Thanks for watching!

[@KENNETHCOOPER55]

So true A wealth of knowledge Great video Drew, ive learned so much from all your tutorials

[@DrewBrashler]

Thanks so much!

[@felipesazo9970]

Thanks for the class

[@erniesanders3724]

Good tips Drew. Thanks for sharing this with us.

[@kennyjames8078]

Thank you Drew! The tip about going for -12dBFS for drums (vs -18dBFS for everything else) was particularly helpful. Question… Once you get these levels correct, might you adjust some preamp gains further down to facilitate a good mix having most faders close to unity (say -6 to 0 dB range) where there is finer control? (I’m thinking particularly about the hi hat channel which would typically have its fader way down relative to other channels for a good drum mix if the preamp gain is set to target -18dBFS to -12dBFS . Otherwise, if that fader is near unity, it would be overwhelming.)

[@duluxeboy]

Exactly, not every input needs to be gained all the way up or you may have channels that are just too hot...

[@Sountechfromscratch]

Thank you so much sir.

[@klb161]

Brilliant video, very informative.

[@DrewBrashler]

Thanks for watching!

[@jasonalexander5253]

Great Video Drew. When I sound check our drummer the kit sounds great, but when I add in the 3-4 vocal mics across the stage front, I get the kit coming through these microphones as well and get unpleasant comb filtering that thins the drum sound out. Our drummer is not an overly loud drummer either. Have I set the vocal preamp gains too high perhaps or is this just a product of live mixing? Thank you.

[@farn451]

so gald you mentioned setting the amps last. so many tech's/"engineers" come in and crank the amps wide open and then have to reverse engineer their signal flow back upstream.

[@DrewBrashler]

Absolutely! Thanks for the comment!

[@kingedwards3962]

Hello. Please can you make a video about feedbacks working on an analog console?

[@jasonstlouis9871]

Hi Drew, do you have a video on setting the levels for the PA? How can one tell if the Amp is too loud?

[@bryanboeholt50]

I noticed you set the levels at -18 with the fader all the way down. Is the -18 setting not supposed to be set with the fader up in the “box” at unity? If you set this as illustrated and then move the fader up to unity or in the box zone - would you not eat up all the head room you’re trying to reserve?

[@Photo-zl6wt]

Fader won't eat headroom; it just removes from where the head amp is set. Drew didn't mention that the band never plays louder during sound check, so the gain gets set too high. Also, I always start with faders at unity to see when the room rings with that mic.

[@michaelprice6626]

Hi Drew! You have helped us a lot with your videos. But I have a couple of questions. #1 we have the Barringer Wing and have the S16 stage box and P16 ear monitoring system. On the P16, when I try to turn up the bass guitar, everything else gets louder, or at least the keys. And the green light I don't believe is coming on either. #2 We can't seem to get the bass guitar to come through on the live stream mix, and we have the fadder almost wide open. But FOH, it seems to be ok. Thanks again for any info you can give.

[@JustinBarton]

You need to look at "Sends on Fader"

[@chrisw7828]

Hi Drew, when you set the preamp gain, is the MAIN house must set to 0? I'm aware the preamp gain can be different if MAIN house level changes. And faders for all channels and DCA groups are all the way down?

[@samuelg9724]

Hey Drew, how do you add a gate or put eq on channels in the inear monitors. Our church has a wing and dp48’s but I want to add a gate on the Tom’s and a gate on our talkback mic. Do you have a video or something to show us how to do that? Thanks.

[@jimfowler3406]

The bands that work with me all love to make fun of me, when I am yelling Performance Volume at them. LOL

[@arthurjackson3337]

😂

[@thaddeusfields4360]

Allen & Heath are designed to have preamp gain at 0dB - it is hard for me to wrap my brain around but it has to do with their dBFS.

[@052RC]

DBFS is typically called digital gain, or trim level. It works differently than analog. With regular analog gain, you work in signal strength, represented in voltage. When the signal is digital, there is no voltage. Adjustments are made by altering bit rate. DBFS is always a negative value, and can't go any higher than 0. Since you're working in bit rate, 0 is full resolution, or full signal. With digital, you can't get more than what you start out with, you can only loose. So, when you adjust trim, maximum is 0 and can only come down. Its a lossy process. The more you lower trim, the more resolution you loose. Your optimum setting for DBFS is 0, or as close to it as possible. That's why its recommended to set your analog gain first, and use trim for small adjustments. Its done to mitigate the effects of bit stripping.

[@jef0704]

Please can you do a video to explain how to configure matrix on an X32 rack

[@DrewBrashler]

Have you taken a look at this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3jPnmOOeqp0qNU

[@boallmon324]

Drew what can I do after setting my preamp channel for a musician and keeping the volume level of it when the musician in part they turn up there instrument during the show

[@GiuseppeDeBianco]

Hi Drew. Is it true that more gain is directly proportional to more feedback?

[@brennanthompson]

This video must've read my mind or something lol. Preamp gain was the one thing I was confused about.

[@derickbarikder9461]

Any plans for a course or series on Presonus's Studiolive series of mixers?

[@phillewis9874]

On a live gig a few weeks ago using x32 and recording 20 or so of those channels to protools, and I couldn’t get much gain at all on my protools inputs. Any ideas why that is? I could turn up gain in each channel on x32 but then my in house gain was too high.

[@FreeKeenan]

Robert Scovill talks about 0 db for 24 bit high resolution is the magic 🎩?

[@rubemgl6669]

No link in the description for the matrix video

[@111jtg111]

The meter is different to that of Allen Heath .

[@deejayemskenya]

What causes distortion sound coming back to the main PA after connecting the signal to a comp that is used for streaming and projection.. using an analogue console

[@DrewBrashler]

If you are coming out of your console, into the compressor, and then off to your PA, then it is possible that you are distorting the input of the compressor with the level out of your console. I would double check the input and output meters of all of the gear to make sure you are not clipping.

[@yuppie617]

Perfect! This helps a lot too!

[@qbyrd0015]

I thought you put the faders at 0 while doing this. You had them all the way down. Also, does this help Winthrop streaming or recording?

[@DrewBrashler]

Yes it does help with streaming and recording. Setting preamp gain is the first and most important step for sure. Once you have this set, then you can get your fader positions set.

[@typhoondjteam4319]

When recording in SD card, how do I find out where the signal is recorded from? Preamp,hpf,gate, eq,com Please sir

[@DrewBrashler]

On the X32, all of the recordings for the SD card with the X-Live would be right at the preamp before channel processing.

[@zebmccall2610]

What would be the correct or starting point for nominal gain on the LR

[@DrewBrashler]

Not clipping! 😅 For the most part when I'm mixing a full band at the loudest I'm getting to around -10 to -8 dBFS. So well into the orange LED's but not clipping.

[@teckdan]

I had followed another guy's recommendation that we set the gain between -12 and -9 at the loudest. Am I hurting anything else other than the headroom before clipping?

[@vadjrob]

If you’re talking about the X32, as Drew was explaining in the video, you’re likely sending a level other than ideal into the channel, thereby hurting your mix at the least. That is IF you had sound checks for each channel that were performance level when you set your gain. If the performance for any particular channel is quieter than sound check, you may find that your gain setting from sound check is accidentally spot on. Are your faders all over the place on your mix? If you’re normally mixing the same performers on the same channels, you can get an idea of how well you’ve set your gains by simply noting where the faders are throughout any given performance. If your gains are set correctly, your faders should all consistently be around the 0 (unity gain) mark. Of course this only works if your master fader for any mix is set correctly. Let’s say you notice the fader on Joe’s vocal channel is often pushed up nearly as high as it can go (well above 0). Chances are his gain is set too low. Maybe John’s guitar channel fader is often well below 0 or people end up holding their ears. Chances are that John’s gain is set too high. You’ll need to be vigilant to watch out for a number of things that can also affect these channels that aren’t setting prettily at or near unity gain throughout the performance. In the examples given, Joe could have innocently given you a level at sound check that he’s too timid to reach when it’s show time while John sneakily turned his amp or guitar down to trick you into setting his gain higher than it should be so he could crank his knob back up during the show to MAKE SURE everyone hears his solo. As you discover these incidents, address it as nicely as possible with the performers. Even if the incidents happen like clockwork, you have the chance to help them grow as performers rather than curse mixes everywhere they play. Maybe they’re only passing -18db on the meter in one song. Maybe you only see it when they eat the mic. Maybe it’s only when a certain pedal is pressed for a solo… etc… communicate it as “Hey, I love what you do, but I could use your help to get it to come through as awesome as possible”. The board is designed that way for a reason, so while equipment may not be physically “hurt”, something is sacrificed somewhere when the gain isn’t set correctly. Many times it’s ears (audience or monitors). To put all that super briefly, if your metering isn’t hitting -18db at the peaks, you’re starving the mix… if it’s continually hitting above -18db, you’re overfeeding the mix. Remember that the gain is there so that you’re neither boosting nor cutting the original source from ideal. You’re setting it at ideal. Setting it correctly centers the source material for each of the controls over every parameter past the gain, making each control its most effective and its easiest to use. If rewatching this video or rereading this comment doesn’t make the concept ring true for you, don’t settle for less than understanding. Keep looking and keep asking. You’re here watching and asking, you already want it to be your best. Ever watered a plant with a hose? You can kill the plant by blasting it with the stream. You can be the absolute BEST of the best with fertilization, pruning, managing the light it gets… but if you’ve already killed the plant with the hose… (The gain is that fancy screw that keeps you from squeezing the trigger of your hose sprayer all the way.) Happy gardening. May your mixes continually outgrow the last harvest!

[@Sneakyybstrd]

Do you know or recommend someone who can help a band setup their live mix setup. We have 2 guitar 2 vox 1 drummer and backtracks. We would love to record our live set using the sd card and send to the engineer to help us create our live sound mix. Thank you

[@DrewBrashler]

I can help! drewbrashler.com/church-sound-system-coaching/

[@boallmon324]

Hey Drew would you know of anyone for hire in Tennessee that has lot history on the x32 full console to help set it up

[@DrewBrashler]

I don't know anyone in Tennessee, but I'm over in Kentucky! drewbrashler.com/on-site-church-audio-system-optimization/

[@decloset9703]

Thank you for your help can we collaborate on a video

[@JesusHasRisen1]

Thanks for these vids. Question: I run sound every weekend on an rackmount M32, using two S-16s on stage (mixing with an iPad). Here is a weird issue I have: Channels 1-8 are just fine with their gain levels, plenty of sound, but 9-16 are way, way, way too soft of a signal, even if I MAX out every channel on the gain. It's night and day difference. Where would be a setting I'm missing to make 9-16 match the levels of 1-8? Thanks!

[@mrovi789]

Check if you didnt select the stagebox as a gain controller, also you might have connected them wrong.