Eibachs or Geisers? NEITHER!!

DONT upgrade the shocks on your Raptor until you watch this video and know what you're getting into. And if your like me and push your raptor, You will want to see what can happen on the trails with upgraded springs.
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[@anilbouri1485]

wow, what a great discussion, well done. I am leaving my truck stock thanks to you.....excellent video!!!

[@vipstash]

This video is awesome. Thanks for the detailed info. Just ordered some sdi top hats to go along with my deavers

[@Gilgalad007]

Have to add my name to the list of those waiting for the Grove Top Plate reinforcement. Running the Geiser coils though I don't push the truck hard enough to ever likely induce a failure. Great video sir, thank you.

[@neilcastelli7505]

Another excellent video by Helio. Great explanation on the issue thats been hidden from view due to insurance claims.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks man. We’ve all talked about it in private. Great to talk more publicly about it

[@702ca]

Gen 1 with Gieser springs and limit straps with no problems for over 4 years now. I think you're 100 percent correct on the live valve issue.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yeah, no reports on the gen1. Live valves really add a ton of capability and you take more hits that the stock components can’t take

[@RJB1017]

I have the evil limit strap kit on my gen 1 and have had zero problems or complaints with it, I first added it when I had geisers on stock shocks to prevent any excessive force from the added spring strength. I now have King oem 3.0’s but opted to keep the limit straps in place just to limit the wear and tear on the shock supporting the entire weight of everything if and when full droop occurs. (Yes I know the shocks were designed to handle it.) Great video, I was happy to see Exo share those images a while back as it was definitely a “psa” that needed to be voiced, so this was a great detailed follow up of these issues on gen 2&3’s. 👏🤘🏼🏁

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s good to hear man. The single weld always worries me. As for the kings, they have a much better bump zone that Fox shocks so you are definitely better protected there.

[@Johnny5sWorld]

Once all of these products become available it would be awesome if you could do an install video on a Gen 2 & 3 from one of your friends trucks just to put the content out there. I think anyone with a Raptor already knows your the man to follow for all the DIY content on KZbin. Keep up the amazing content Helio!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We will as guys let us film it for sure. Some of this requires welding so we would be in a shop regardless to install it since I can’t weld. But if anyone is doing any of these upgrades in SoCal, let me know so we can film it

[@mattkeikkala726]

Thank you for posting this information, helped me immensely to make my decision!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Glad we could help.

[@jerzsubbie]

Thanks for posting and sharing this info! I'm new to the Raptor scene (not to off roading) and have been leaning toward SDI top hats to level out the truck. This validates and solidifies that decision. It seems like coils will be fine for the majority of people making starbucks runs, but they aren't the right choice for heavy use.

[@Khaled-tx5xj]

Thank you always for the tips and help Helio , we greatly appreciate that . Regarding the progressive springs I’ve got a lot of friends in Kuwait who always opt out for the progressive springs on Gen 2 and 3 . Also You know that I’ve got the Evil + 2 midtravel kit with the Icon 3.0s front and rear and the have those limit straps that came with it , I don’t have the truck currently but soon though I’m gonna test out the suspension on the trails . I might double plate those welding spots on the limit straps in the near future but I don’t think I would be doing anything crazy since I’m mostly out of the country .

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

You guys have some decent trails out there so you will definitely test it. Most mid travel kits come with the extra reinforcement at the top of the shock bucket and the bypass shocks help dampen substantially. So you will be ok

[@supermario7737]

This kind of information is great to know and thank you for taking the time to explain everything in detail. I have had a gen 1 and gen 2 with both sets geiser and eibach although I didn't have a failure this makes perfect sense. Getting ready to buy another gen 1 after not so great experience with my gen2.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks man. And I think we’ve had similar experiences with the gen2. I loved my 2017. But my 2020 raptor was a nightmare of issues.

[@DavidOrdonezRE]

Thanks for the video. I 'upgraded' to eibach on my Gen 2. Wish I would have waited. The height is perfect for me but a little too stiff for my liking. I don't run it to hard so I have not had these issues, but wish I would have kept my stock springs in case I ever decide to switch back (left them at the shop)

[@BadV2]

Good stuff! Thanks, man.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

🙏🙏

[@Powershift]

Great video. I just did the SDI top hats, and Icon rear Leafs, yesterday on my '17 Raptor. I was originally thinking of doing new coils up front, but the shop I deal with (Apollo Optics) gave me the exact reason you did to go with the SDI setup.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s great that they steered you in the right direction. Most shops won’t.

[@joemarchese6417]

@powershift I was thinking of doing the same setup, how's the level of the truck?? Are you on Icon option 1's? Thanks man!

[@Powershift]

@@joemarchese6417 Yes, Icon option 1 without the added leaf. She sits level after the rear springs settled.

[@teejayhuston]

THATS ME IN THE BLACK TRUCK! 🤣🤣🤣 EXO knows I sold the truck. 🙃 As you can see in the video it happened bad and also cracked my shock bucket! Great video Helio! 🤘

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Sucks this happened to you man. But glad we can finally talk about it publicly. Also glad you guys were ok. Jeremiah said you guys were really close to a cliff section. If it failed there it could have been so much worse.

[@ChromesConsoles]

I was close to convincing my dad to let me upgrade Our gen1 Raptors stock shocks with Hibachis, but now with this video it lets me see the potential problems, and dangers of it! thanks for an awesome video documenting the springs!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks. Glad we could help.

[@taylorpratt6287]

If you increase the vehicle weight, upgrading to appropriately matched heavier springs then you’re set, this guy is talking half truth, he’s not explaining how to install different springs properly. He’s just saying just don’t do it which is small minded

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We are just talking the front coilover springs in this video. All the pictures of damage were of the front springs. We never talked about rear springs where load becomes a factor. That’s a different story AND currently no one makes a load coil spring for the raptor that adds more than 1.5in of height. Well within what we talked about here. So what are these half truths you talking about? Pic here don’t lie man. 13 failures just on EXO runs alone.

[@md247]

4 Baja and 9 arizona offroad trips this year with geiser on a gen3 without any issues. I’m adding a Foutz limit strap kit because everything they build is solid

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s good to hear. But I know many others not so lucky. And yeah man. The FMI kits are solid

[@Proteinfartsbro]

I’ve geiser on my gen3, only been on some off road trails here in Ontario and couple small jumps for fun plus towing a 20ft fiber glass boat, I’m a little concerned after watching this video….

[@4KCookies]

I had the Evil Limit strap on my gen 1 raptor and it worked great. I was able to install it by myself as a do-it-yourself kinda guy with some help from a mobile welder. It did rub on the shocks wearing away the paint. That was my only complaint.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s good to hear. My main concern would be the welded plate. I think with how I push my trucks over the years, that little piece will eventually fail.

[@MarshallChip]

I purchased the SDI top hat the day you released the video on it! I have about 1,500 miles on the setup and 200 of them are off-road. I couldn’t be happier with the function and looks, it’s how the R should have come from the factory!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Totally agree. 👍

[@ducatiwayne3892]

Did you add a rear spring spacer after installing the top hat

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Rear spring spacer is not required unless your carrying a lot of extra weight in the back.

[@JamesElterman]

Great info!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks

[@sterlingbingham7975]

Great vid man!

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks 🙏

[@user-rs4wo4nb7p]

Great video. Thanks for the breakdown 👊. Just picked up a Gen 3 35 and was back and forth between RPG collars and Eibach springs to fit 37’s. The SDI front bucket replacement looks to be the way to go. Do you know of a reputable shop near Phoenix, AZ to install?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Best shop out there is Foutz (FMI)

[@chriswoodard8813]

I had the Eibachs on my Gen 1 with RVC IWE deletes and went through 2 sets of CV Axles in a year due to tearing the boots. Went to the Geisers and this solved the issue mo more torn boots. Ran on bottom perch on both springs.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Has to do with the angle of the boots. We see it a lot and why recommend restricting preload to 1.5-2in over stock to keep the CV axle boots from touching and wearing out prematurely

[@chriswoodard8813]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad yea the Geisers on bottom perch are very close in height to my stock springs on mid perch where the Eibachs on bottom perch were more like stock springs on top perch. Posted this to hopefully save someone some money in CV axles

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yeah. Definitely another issue to raise awareness on.

[@xUntamed666x]

Can you revalve the shocks for aftermarket coils?

[@badm0t0rf1ng3r]

I will say Geisers on bottom perch has been good, but I know A LOT of guys who went with them on mid perch and wound up with blown shocks within months (obviously mileage and conditions vary). I have Icons on order so using Geisers for a month or 2 more shouldn't be an issue. Your points are all valid especially for those of us Raptor owners who really push the truck; Keep it stock or get a fully designed system for the truck.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I’ve never understood guys doing springs upgrades on gen1 shocks on anything but the bottom perch. That’s is so much preload and so many more issues can arise. But yeah man. Telling guys to stay close to stock seems to be an unpopular opinion these days. But offroad the stock trucks when driven within their capabilities are the most reliable.

[@badm0t0rf1ng3r]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Well they think the springs are upgrade, and mid perch is generally an upgrade so combine the both of them and its DOUBLE THE UPGRADE. Unmodified and tastefully modified ALWAYS have less issues and retain more value than super modified vehicles GENERALLY.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Totally agree. So hard to get folks to understand that.

[@jibrilthegreat35]

I run Eibachs on my gen 1, and do push it hard off road in arizona. No issues to report, whatsoever. 👍🏼 but thanks for sharing your knowledge man, much appreciated 👌🙏🏻

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s good to hear. With this video we just started heard of failures on the gen1 was when folks did springs upgrades but went to mid perch. The extra preload caused the shocks and top hats to fail. Are yours setup on bottom perch?

[@jibrilthegreat35]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad yeah Im bottom perch and so far Ive had no issues.

[@jibrilthegreat35]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoadafter prerunning the first 50 miles of the Baja 500 the right side top hat started to separate. Now Im deciding if RPG Top hat replacement is the way to go or might just get king 3.0s and be done with it. What do you think man?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I’m not a fan of the RPG top hat. I think the ball joint design is too rigid and it’s an extra Maintenance and wear point now too. I’ve heard from at least one guy running it now hearing a pop from his front end which may be the ball joint under too much tension. There are a few ways to go. If you value the daily soft ride, consider SDI Eclick either the extended shock bucket and take off live valves. It’s the best dang for your buck. If you plan to go wild with upgrades later and this is mainly your toy, sky is the limit.

[@jibrilthegreat35]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Im more interested in off road performance and strength than street ride. If I got the KHC shock bucket replacement, and got gen 2 17-18 shocks without live valves. Id still have to use gen 1 springs right? Ive hears the rears fit just fine from gen 2 onto gen 1. Or bite the bullet and get kings or fox 3.0s, decisions decisions. Lol BTW what are your thoughts on sway a way shocks?

[@paulburke1559]

Great video, thanks for the review. I just picked up a set of King coilover to prevent this issue. What are your thoughts on full coilover replacement

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Kings is the way to go. They have a much better bump zone called the IBS that really smooth out hitting bottom and can prevent the issues all together

[@johnmorrison8351]

I did Eibachs and even after alignment and reprogramming the ride height the truck never rode the same. The top-out was pretty violent especially after big or fast hits. I would never recommend changing coils without upgrading to a custom shock… Same problem on both my 19 and 20.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I experienced the same on top of a rough ride on small stuff.

[@logansimpson7770]

Could you add the spacer top hat to a blue shock setup on Geisers? For more lift? Not a lot of off-roading

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Only if you want to destroy CV axles everytime you use 4wd. First off, why would you want that much preload up front? That’s what 5in of lift? CV axles would constantly be binding up, boots would fail, CV joints will be stressed and installation would be a nightmare. Only a professional wall mounted spring compressor could do it. So many reason not to do it. Why do you want that much lift?

[@MB-gf1yc]

Ive always wondered about this issue. Just goes to show, just because it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s the best option.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Exactly!! I’ve always been skeptical and ran both myself and fell for the hype. Running both springs I can tell you they were stiffer than most said they were.

[@DanBallard]

Thanks for the great video! So I have the Geiser’s all around so disappointing, but important to know. I thought that just adding the limit straps would solve the problem, but sounds like not? Think it’s ok to leave the rear Geiser’s, but put the stock front springs back on with the SDI front bucket? Going with the click and revalve

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yeah, rear Geisers are not a problem as they only lift 1.5 in over stock and will help with load in the back. It’s mainly the front springs on coilovers that are the problem.

[@DanBallard]

Ok thanks, appreciate the reply. I hate to lower the front as I love the stance, and hate to spend an extra $500…. but if it preforms better and is less likely to break definitely worth it.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yeah it will and you won’t have to deal with CV boots failing later. Any more than 2in lift over stock causes the CV boots to run and eventually fail. It takes a while but CV axles go from lasting 100k miles to lasting as little as 10k miles with heavy 4wd use. So in the long term it’s less issues overall

[@camrod809]

Question, Gen 2 with SDI tops which rear leafs? Little to no extra gear or weights in rear and not a lot of heavy off roading.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Stock leafs would be best in that scenario to keep the smoothest ride. Only problem is the stock leafs will eventually go flat, and when they do, the Icon leaf pack is the better options. They are softer than the Deavers

[@irregularf150]

May just go back to mid stock set up when i get them rebuilt. Even with the gen 1 i cant afford to have that kind of failure happen no matter how low the chances are. Its not only my fun truck but a DD. Hey manufacturers us gen 1 guys are still out here and wanting some cool stuff too 😢 😆

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Not a bad plan man. Never hurts to be ready. Just keep in mind you gen1 shocks have shims above and below the shock bucket. They adjust the angle but also help reinforce the shock bucket. You really have to push it hard to see it on the gen1

[@irregularf150]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad didnt know about the shims thats good to know. right but the pot holes of New England are pretty rough 😂

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

🤣🤣 true. Can’t be worse than Baja though. Maybe sharper yeah.

[@irregularf150]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad definitely not lol. Would love to find out some day though

[@Polo08816]

Is the minor lift on the rear axle with either Eibach or Geiger springs an issue compared to the front? Curious about an overlanding setup.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

No, because the lift is limited to 1.5 inches over stock. That’s around 3/4 of an inch of preload. The problem comes when folks combine the rear springs with additional spacers. Then it’s a problem

[@blkm3p]

Great video! Did you guys see the new RPG top hats? Is that good product to use with springs?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Thanks. We have seen the RPG one And it only solves for one of the issues. With aftermarket springs you still need limit straps and bucket reinforcement. The videos of it don’t show how the ball joint is held into place either. Really want to see that because I suspect there may be some issues with its design. Time will tell. We need to see these on the trails first. Until then my recommendation is still avoid aftermarket springs and if you want some height, go with the SDI top hat.

[@jesselangston4747]

I have a 200lb cap and will prob add other weight to the bed. Was thinking of doing SDI front and Geiser rear. Is there a better solution for weight in the back? I don't do any crazy off road, here in FL just mostly trails, sand and mud. So not really a lot of high speed hits and abuse. Was going to stay with 35's for more articulation. Any thoughts? Tempted to do 37's just for the look.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Geisers or Eibachs out back are OK. No reports yet of issues with them back there because the lift is only 1.5 over stock. So for the extra loan capacity it should be fine

[@caseycharity]

Great info! My Gen 1 came with Geisers when I bought it. Why do you think this issue hasn’t happened as much or at all with the 1st Gen? Thanks

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I think it has to do with the shock stroke and what you can do. The gen2 is overall more capable and makes off-roading easier. So you have guys pushing them harder. Gen1 is more analog and takes some experience to push it. So there is less badgers driving them. Gen2 makes off-roading fast super easy so guys run faster than what their skills can handle more often

[@caseycharity]

Makes sense. Thanks

[@henryoberling594]

Hey just saw the vid. I have a 24’ 35p raptor with eibach pro lift kit on 37’s. Can you re-valve the shocks or are there no options to prevent the added wear and tear with after market springs

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

There is not much you can do to prevent the extra wear but you can do things to prevent the damage that may come with that upper joint fails. So first off, the extra height will always cause CV axle boots to fail prematurely. Only way to increase their life is to reduce the preload which equals getting rid of those springs. For the failure of the top hat, make sure you get limit straps if you plan to offroad. That way you can prevent the shock of bottoming out and if it fails, everything stays in tact. And then for extreme situations, reinforce the top of the shock bucket. We covered all this in the video

[@Jeff-sh4kx]

Does this apply to all spring upgrades for Gen 3, or is this primarily 2”+ springs? Would 1.1” Eibach have less risk than 2.5”?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I’m not aware of Eibach having a 1.1 in options for the raptors. I know the rear springs are typically 1.5, but I have not seen one with 1.1 up front. But yes, all spring upgrades will require some sort of reinforcement. At the very least you need limit straps.

[@neekshernandez5894]

I was having this problem with my Chevy Colorado. Bought eibachs, spring hat couldn’t take the spring load.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s good to know. The ZR2s are pretty capable rigs so I could see them having issues when pushed

[@jesusp2832]

What you think about using a leveling kit for the first gen raptor such as ready Lift ? And yes most of the time it will be on road use.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

In my personal opinion, putting a lift on a Raptor is the worst thing you can do. You literally eliminate everything that makes it a raptor. To add height on an off-road prerunner you add width, bigger tires, and some spring preload. A lift kit adds height by adding lift blocks and scaffolding. Yes. Most lift kits are basically flimsy scaffolding. Sure it will work on pavement. But take any curb wrong or hit the wrong pothole and the scaffolding will collapse. You try any real off-roading that has surprise washouts or jump being hit at speed and the lift kit is going to collapse. Just don’t do it. At that point save yourself the money and lift an f150

[@jesusp2832]

Thanks for you response ! Yeah I was just trying to get rid of that factory rake they have up front and keep it stock height just the front leveled with the back.

[@jesusp2832]

Keep them videos going ! They’re very educational !

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

If that’s all you want stick to shock collars or the SDI top hat we talked about here.

[@zmao6542]

How about the collar, still stock springs rate?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

As long as you limit the collar to 1.5-2in over stock, you will be fine. Its when you do more like some going as high as 3 inches that could cause problems

[@CincoBlanco_]

I know this would only apply for 2wd but couldn't a spindle work? You would keep all geometry with added the added height

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Can you please elaborate? Not sure how changing out the spindle would add height. At least not without moving the arm pivot points on the frame.

[@AROD.]

⁠@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad basically they relocate were the hub mounts are to a lower position compared to oem

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s not really possible on the Raptor. The spindle is just larger than the hubs. You could maybe do portals, but that comes with its own set of issues with high speed off-roading.

[@Charlesc1991]

What do you think of the RPG replacement?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We did not mention it here because it’s a brand new product. Its performance is unknown and I’m worried that replacing the bushing with a ball join could cause problems. It also only solves for the bushing. You still need your reinforce the shock bucket and add limit straps because your using aftermarket springs. So there is some extra cons there too. Time will tell how it does as many are getting them. But for me, I’m taking a wait and let me see them on the trails before I recommend them.

[@amcx9950]

This happened to my gen 1 twice with geisers. I’m on 3.0’s now and will not recommend any aftermarket springs to anyone who asks me.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Wow man. I need to know more. What perch were you on? What failed. So many questions.

[@amcx9950]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad mid perch on geisers. Blew out 2 top hats. Broke the welds on one top hat separating the 2 metal plates together and pulled another one completely apart in the same manner. Called geiser twice to Confirm that I can run mid perch with heavy Offroad use. They said it was okay even after I stated my top hat issues. Tbh I never liked them on the truck anyway. Too much bumpsteer. I never did move them down to low perch, I wrote them off after the second top hat breakage.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s wild man. Geisers with mid perch seems like a bad idea. Cannot believe they would say it’s ok. But based on my experience on the gen2 platform just riding crappy and how many others are seeing issues, it all makes sense now.

[@raulgallardo5140]

Even though this issue isnt know to happen to Gen 1’s, would you still recommend against putting them on a Gen 1?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I would recommend against them. Gen1 shocks had perch settings that is a better option for height. Shock will still work right. Alternatively my recommendation for gen1 is replace the shock bucket and run live valves controlled by SDI Eclick. It’s the best bang for you buck mod to the raptor and gets you close to mid travel performance

[@raulgallardo5140]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Damn... I currently have Eibachs on my 2013. Never had any issues with them but having learned about what could possible happen now, I think im going to go back to stock springs and mid perch. I dont really offroad too hard or that often so as nice as and SDI setup would be, its not necessary for my purposes. Maybe someday! 😁

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

If you don’t offroad too much, keep your current setup. We have not seen any reports of this happening on the Gen1 so risk is low

[@theslush3574]

So what should I do just leave it stock or do the bolt on leveling kit? I have a 24

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Same issues as all the others man. Advice we give in the video still applies. I would say you’re more likely to have issues as the dual live valves have the potential to be more capable.

[@theslush3574]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad should I just do the sdi top hats then ? Or just completely stock?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Depends on how you plan to use the truck. You looking at upgrades to just level the front or you looking to improve offroad performance

[@hairpinperformance3926]

This is making me want to just avoid live valve upgrade all together on my 18 unless I cough up enough to do the e clik with fox factory

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

What shocks you looking at doing? Take off Live valves or the Fox Factory Race series (FRS) shocks?

[@hairpinperformance3926]

Just the manually adjustable Fox factory 3.0

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

So the factory race series live valves then? Well if you go that route, make sure you reinforce the top of the shock bucket. Those shocks are more capable so you will be able to do more and reinforcing the shock bucket is a must.

[@hairpinperformance3926]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I'm still on the fence. Part of me just wants to go with the non live valve Fox factory shocks just to not deal with reinforcing or worrying about droop etc

[@Raptor178]

For the Eibach would you say this only applies to off-roaders. I just bought the springs yesterday and have yet to install them. I do zero off roading. I got it for the 2.5 lift and a better ride than collars

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

If you don’t offroad, you should be fine. Just keep in mind your beyond what we recommend for preload so your CV axle boots will rub more. If you use 4wd a lot in winter you will see reduced life on the CV boots. As they rub they will eventually fail.

[@Raptor178]

Is there a solution to this? Like a company that makes upgraded Cv axles for this type of set up?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

The solution is to reduce preload and go wider with a mid travel kit or long travel kit. There is no way to avoid the drawbacks of extra preload on the CVs. We recommend limiting preload to 1.5-2in over stock. Anything more and you will have CV issues.

[@Raptor178]

Thanks for the info 🤛🏼

[@cdogg22]

Really great video! I never thought it was a good idea to put that much pre-load on your suspension....unless you are just doing it for looks. Quick question, I'm running King 3.0's on my 2019 Gen 2. I'm not exactly sure how much pre-load it's set at, but the front is not jacked up and I'm still running 35's. Have you heard of any failures with this setup?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yes we have. So if you look closely at the pictures of the cracked shock bucket, you will recognize the top of the FRS shocks EXO was running on his Gen3. Now mind you, he pushes his trucks. He’s running Baja and keeping the pace for prerunners. So this is an extreme worst case scenario. So for you it will depend on where you run and how much you push it.

[@neilcastelli7505]

Well see, I run King 3.0's as well and they are coming off this week for an upgrade. I will look at the top of the bucket once they are off and see. I run with Helio so we def push our trucks, if any will have damage it will be mine. I have cracked the lower mounts where the Foutz gusset kit goes and have been re-welded. But this time its getting gusseted for sure

[@cdogg22]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad Thanks for the response. I wasn't familiar with what "FRS" meant so I didnt' know you covered this in your video. I definitely push my truck very hard so I would be at risk. I just did a once over on my suspension and the welds and shock bucket all look good. I'll look into getting the frame weld reinforcements.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Your truck is going to be a great measure for how strong the stock bucket was. BUT I will say the king shocks have a better and softer bump zone (bottom out zone) than Fox so you may be good. Definitely need to document how yours looks

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Yeah, definitely will need it man. grove will have a plate ready here in a few weeks. Follow us on IG and we will let you guys know once it’s oderable

[@user1acount]

Can i send you pictures of my springs and can you tell me if all I need is a shock rebuild? The leaf springs seem a little flattened.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Sure. You can email me or shoot me a message on instagram. I respond the quickest on Instagram

[@user1acount]

Dumb question. Where do I check for email? I don't have an insta

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Check the about tab on the channel. But here it is as well [e-mail]

[@user1acount]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad sent! Thank you

[@syedalishah6854]

Hey. Great video! So in your experience, would the SDI levelling kit (top hat) be better than the RPG levelling kit, or perhaps the other way around?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Jury is still out. More have used the SDI top hat and pushed it to its limits. The RPG top hat has not been tested as much yet and I’m personally concerned about the joint up top. When SDI first did the top hat it was rigid and it broke. They added the bushing to account for required movement of the shock. The ball join may not allow all the movement needed and I’m worried about it wearing. Those type of ball joints don’t last long under load and movement. Hope that helps

[@syedalishah6854]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad thanks for taking the time to reply! So in that case, a follow up question is is it worth doing a top hat or should I leave it as is? Is it even worth messing with the stock set up unless I’m going full mid travel? Gen 3 owner

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

It depends. If your mainly street driving, keep it stock. If you plan to offroad, the nose is a bit low and gets buried on everything on the trails here in so cal. So for us its worth that extra height up front to keep the nose out of the dirt at full tuck.

[@syedalishah6854]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad That makes sense! I do go off road so had a level on my list of things to do. Excuse my ignorance but would the SdI levelling kit limit the total travel or the suspensions ability to soak up the rough stuff?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

No it’s the one options with the least amount of limits. For every option ( spacers, collars, and springs) what ever lift they add, half is lost the preload they add. That’s why Geisers with the most lift cause so much problems. SDI top hat only uses 10mm of preload to gain an overall 1.75 in of list. It’s the least amount of any system. So you will have less issues overall and still keep a softer ride that comes either the stock springs. I normally recommend SDI top hat with SDI Eclick to get the most out of the stock suspension.

[@user-vm4uh4cz4r]

We need more gen 1 videos. Let's innovate something

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We have more gen1 video content planned. Just keep in mind that market is small for the Gen1s. More Gen2s were sold the first year of production than the whole gen1 run. And of those most have already been upgraded. So I’ve had a hard time getting companies to make stuff for them. But I do have some coming anyways thanks to a local small shop

[@Iamspeedhunter]

Does anyone know if this SDI top hat will work on a Gen 1?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

It does not. gen1 geometry is very different. So while the holes will line up, the shock won’t. Gen1 requires those shims to get the angle of the shock at the correct angle to function correctly. But honestly, you don’t need it on a Gen1. Gen1s have not had this issue at all. And 2, why spend money on a spacer or top hat replacement when you can just adjust to top mid or top perch on the shock to get the same effect. The only way the top hat can be used is if you chop off the stock bucket and do the aftermarket bucket to support the longer shocks from the gen2. The new shock bucket corrects the angle of the bucket to support the longer shocks and will work.

[@Iamspeedhunter]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I saw TSW offers a top hat that works on all 3 gens so that got me confused why this one wouldn't. That makes sense now. Thank you for all the help! You are out here doing the lords work to help the raptor community.

[@scotthiebert4979]

What’s the best option for a guy running a gen 3 looking at adding a bed rack and tent and needs an option for the extra 500lbs in the rear? Don’t really care for a lift.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s a lot of weight to carry offroad. You’re going to need springs in the back to compensate for the weight. Geisers would be the better option. But the back end is going to be much stiffer than a stock front end. And when the bed is empty that back end is going to be high.

[@scotthiebert4979]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I guess I should be clear. 500 is the total weight with the tent/bed rack, all the gear total in the bed. And my off road is FSR’s.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

So your running FRS shocks all around with stock springs in the rear currently? If so, the recommendation is the same. Not many options for carrying a lot of weight in Raptors. They are not designed for heavy loads. Off-roading and heavy loads contradict each other. So your best option to carry that load is upgraded rear springs and right now it’s just Eibachs and Geisers.

[@scotthiebert4979]

I meant my off roading is FSR’s (forest service roads), so nothing too extreme. Good news is I found a tent rack combo today that’s 200lbs. So I’ll try that combo and see if I need to upgrade the rear.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Ah. Never heard anyone use an acronym for fire roads before. I would be cautious of any low cost options. You’ll find the truck is more capable than most racks. And it’s easy to get carried away. I’ve seen plenty of raptor and TRX guys use bed mounted racks that slipped off or bent the bed in one way or another. Raptor can go fast, even if you did not mean to. And you hit anything at speed and you experience a ton of g forces that most racks can’t handle.

[@blakemarchand6650]

Can you make a wrangler 392 review I want your opinions on that

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Working on it man. Finding a 392 guy that actually offroad and will let us film it is not easy.

[@blakemarchand6650]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad oh sweet! Thanks man! Looking forward to that video I want your insight on that rig since I’ve been crossing shopping it with some other rigs.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We will see man. So far I’ve found nothing but guys that bought it as a status symbol. And after the hoonigans video, guys are not going to want to film a “test” for a while

[@blakemarchand6650]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad hahah dammit welp fingers crossed 🤞

[@nathanpoirier3219]

Never had an issue. 19k hard off-road miles. I got the first set of Gen 3 Geiser springs all around. The issue is people overdriving their trucks thinking a Raptor is a trophy truck.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Where do you offroad? And is your experience just with the Gen3? I normally put 20k miles on my raptors a year off-roading in SoCal and Nevada. I personally saw the shock bucket splitting from the frame on my live valve truck. And saw a few others have issues with cracking as well. The main cause was not overdriving. It was getting surprised on the trail. Hardest thing to learn is how to read the trails. Everyone gets surprised because trails are always changing or they just don’t have experience with scanning and adjusting their driving. There is a small handful pushing them too hard sure. But these issues can happen to anyone. And will happen to you eventually if you’re doing some serious off-roading.

[@nathanpoirier3219]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad multiple Baja trips, all around Arizona and Southern California.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Just the gen3? Or do you have experience with the gen1 or the gen2?

[@nolanbarbee1304]

I see that you didn’t reuse the rubber boot/sleeve that protects the top part of the shock. Is that not necessary? I’m putting top hats on in a couple days

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Huh? We did not cover the boot in this video, but if you look at the SDI video we referenced, they do keep the rubber boot to protect the front shocks.

[@nolanbarbee1304]

The cover shot for this video clearly shows the rubber boot not on the shock that’s why I asked

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

On the cover shot of this video you’re looking at 2 damaged shocks with stock shock buckets. There is no SDI pics on the cover shot of this video. Shock on the left broke thru but did not fall apart so the boot was torn off and the right shock completely separated and collapsed I do know the rubber boot is optional, but why would you not want to install it. It protects the shaft.

[@nolanbarbee1304]

It’s not that I don’t want to I was just asking if it’s necessary that’s all

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

It’s mainly there to protect the shock shaft from impacts. Rocks typically. And a small ding or scratch on the shaft will cause the shock to leak. So yeah. Definitely keep it to extend the life of the shock

[@tomashernandez9263]

this ever happened to a stock 3rd gen? ?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Only those with upgraded springs or pushing it on FRS shocks. Fully stock the main thing your damaging offroad is the skid plate

[@tomashernandez9263]

Thank you great video

[@ericanderson3308]

What would you recommend for ucas on a gen 3 ?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

You staying stock travel or upgrading to mid travel? If your staying stock UCAs upgrades are mainly for show and I don’t recommend them. For stock travel the only benefit they provide is UCA alignment adjustment when combined with a slot delete. That’s it and 99% of shops out there don’t know how to align a truck from the upper control arm. So it can create more hassle. Some argue that the ball joints are better and will have less bind. And that’s true, But they last 1/4 of the time that enclosed ball joints last. So their benefits are outweighed by the maintenance cost to replace the joints at $75-150 per joint to replace. So unless your doing a slot delete, UCAs upgrades is not something I recommend for stock travel.

[@ericanderson3308]

I was thinking aftermarket uca only because I hit a wash out going pretty fast and knocked my alignment out pretty bad . Slightly bent my lca tabs . Found a good alignment shop and got it back in "specs" but ever since then that side of the truck now sits 1.5" lower than the others . I thought maybe I messed up the coil spring so I put on some front eibach springs and it still sits lower on that side . I've looked at the suspension extensively and cannot find any bent parts . Thanks for the response man love your videos

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

So upper control arm upgrades won’t solve for the problem you have. First off, if the LCA mount is bent on the front and you truck is sitting lower, chances are you also bent the rear one too and they are slightly out of place. Does not take much. You need to first have all that checked and the bend pieces replaced or bent back into shape. You could have bent the spindle, or the frame or a number of other things a Next, you need to look at doubler plates to reinforce the LCA mounts. Krazy House customers makes some great kits for that. FMI too.

[@ericanderson3308]

@KeepItDirtyOffRoad so I took a really good look at the front suspension again and i just noticed that I bent my frame slightly causing the passenger side to sit 3/4" lower than the other side . I think my only options at this point is to either trade it in for another raptor with socks because my apr is 2.6% ,lowest apr I could find is 5% now . Or I could by the front fox factory race series and just adjust the ride height accordingly since their coil overs

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Chances are you have a few things bent. I’ve had friend and myself go through the same. For me it turns out I bent my frame. It was very slight, but I bent my frame up on the drivers side. Took a frame machine to confirm it. I had a friend bend the spindle. It was very slight, but enough that that while side sat lower. But the force required to bend that I huge and found out later the frame bent slightly as well. Upgrading the UCAs won’t solve for that unfortunately. You still have stock components and stock frame sections designed to bend in an accident that could still bend. My recommendation is have a body shop measure you frame and see what’s tweaked. That will give you definitive measurements on what’s wrong. And then look at reinforcement once everything is straight. Reinforce the frame with plating, reinforce the LCA mounts and box them in. And replace any components they find are bent

[@goldcartridgegamer]

I keep telling people to either stay stock springs or upgrade to 3.0s.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That’s the way to go. Stock springs will give you the smoother ride and collars or the SDI top hat are the better budget options

[@goldcartridgegamer]

What are you thoughts on the different 3.0s for gen 1's? Curious what you have seen first hand vs a bunch of he said she said or marketing fluff. Tired of the sales folks pushing crap in the gen1 groups.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

That would fall under the category of FRS (Fox race series). I would look into shock bucket reinforcement running those. Just keep in mind that we have not see any reports of shock bucket cracking on the gen1. It’s possible but have not seen it. The FRS shocks can and do improve comfort and will run smoother than upgrading the springs too. But for the money, doing SDI Eclick with take off shocks and an upgraded shock bucket will outperform FRS shocks and it’s less than FRS shocks on all 4 corners.

[@goldcartridgegamer]

I would run SDI setup on my gen 1 if I knew of a good welder in my area to do the KHC buckets, but I do not. So my options are limited to what fits on the stock bucket.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Where are you based?

[@gbb1419]

They blew because you guys beat the living hell out of the truck. If you drive alow the Geisers should be fine. Probably better for crawling over stuff.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

Raptor was not meant for crawling. It can do it, but it was designed for the desert. Designed to run fast in Baja. But just like anything else, you cant cheap out on upgrades. Upgrading the springs is a cheap way to make the suspension more capable. But if you don’t reinforce for the extra abuse, you have failure. Simple as that. Those that get raptors have the right to use the trucks as they like. And some of us will use the truck to their max potential. You don’t have to. But if you ever get a chance to do it, you’ll love these trucks even more and you will be hooked.

[@gbb1419]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad so I installing the Gen 1 Raptor shocks off rock auto on my 2013 F 150. I got the struts, you suggest getting the stock springs at the dealer then?

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

We have not seen any issues with the gen1 trucks running Geisers on bottom perch. So you should be fine. The problem come when guys try and do upgraded springs and mid or top search on those shocks that they get into trouble.

[@gbb1419]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad I couldn't get my shock to get off its perch setting, maybe the ones off rock auto are different. I loosened the screw but the perch wouldn't move.

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

They may be fused. But it’s a grove and have to take them apart. Some penetrating fluid and maybe a mallet to get them to pop off.

[@themachanic6416]

So I found a KZbin channel that put a gen2 steering wheel on a gen1 check it out the channel is Jurassic overland

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

I’ve seen the video. It’s a cool mod, but most buttons are not functional.

[@themachanic6416]

@@KeepItDirtyOffRoad yes he says that but you still retain the buttons that work on the gen1 steering wheel and you gain the paddle shifter

[@rosendoramos6628]

Not me watching this after installing geiser on my third gen raptor 🫠🫠🫠

[@KeepItDirtyOffRoad]

🤣🤣 maybe you’ll be one of the lucky ones.