Keller Knows Best

[@TJamesBoone]

@DefenderoftheCross your quote in the chat is spot on: "Reading Keller is like eating salmon. The bones are hard to find but are definitely there and will definitely hurt you."

[@JonathanGrandt]

The only good salmon is tuna.

[@cliffordmartin5731]

Hey Jon, would you be able to add all of your Tim Keller content or series to a playlist on your channel?

[@dianewoerner6870]

I read an interesting verse this morning: "Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the Lord understand it completely" (Proverbs 28:5). It doesn't say, "Those who understand justice are seeking the Lord." There's an ordering here.

[@nathanphillipsgo]

This is so true. Good point. Evil promotes a a good thing, justice (and I would add love) but they can not understand what it is.

[@jackuber7358]

Yes, but notice that Keller said a rejection of "Christianity" as if "Christianty" was an independent entity. The real issue in not a rejection of "Christianity" but a rejection of "Christ." And that is completely the fault of Keller and his ilk. That is an empty Christianity, devoid of Christ and chalk full of replacements for Christ: empty moralisms, meaningless ceremonies, social justice versus God's justice, and so on.

[@adamjohns78]

This was very helpful, thanks for the work/ministry you’re doing Jon!

[@LadyJaneJolene]

Yes. The church IS primarily spiritual- not focused primarily on social Justice. But on the salvation of souls through faith in Jesus Christ. If social Justice were the primary thing- Jesus would have been a huge disappointment to have left so many cultural injustices **intact**. This is an obvious clue- that the primary focus is the saving of the soul. We go about our lives living as unto God- in loving and correcting social injustice in our various and limited spheres of authority. But that is not the primary calling of the church/the bride of Christ. We believe on, walk transformed through, share the gospel of, disciple with, & wait upon Jesus’ soon return as His eager bride. ❤️

[@DentGal83]

Benefitting society (according to what society deems beneficial) is not important or even relevant for a Christian. The Truth is - the only true thing that benefits ‘society’ is the Gospel - the thing that benefits people because it is the power of God for salvation.

[@mary-janechambers3596]

Exactly!

[@darrellpowell4331]

In my rural Southern county the 20+ scattered SBC churches are barely hanging on while lots have moved membership to the SBC mega at the county seat. Do you guys see this where you live?

[@michaelclark2458]

This is even big in Central California where I live. The small biblical churches disappear and are replaced with the big globalhomo multicult non denom churches.

[@dkreichen1968]

Grant, Nebraska... I grew up near Arthur, Nebraska; and went to church in Ogallala during my teens. So Grant, and the surrounding area, is sort of home turf for me. Of course the primary reason for us to go through Grant, was on our way to a football game or track meet in Venango. Part of that north-south strip of the United States where less than 1% of the population lives.

[@johntobey1558]

Christian Missionary Alliamce and Converge also are succeeding in reviving formerly dead or dying Churches here in Bucks County, Suberban Philly.

[@johntobey1558]

Please comment on The Keller Cemter of Apologetics at TGC.

[@jackuber7358]

Keller is a pan-atheist, for him, it really does not matter what you believe as long as you are a "nice" person who submits to the state. In Keller's philosophy, God is merely a social construct useful for an ordered and productive society and an ordered and productive society is THE most important thing. Salvation before a creator God is not even on the radar.

[@MarkADever]

That sounds like the cults of AA and NA. God - good orderly direction

[@TJamesBoone]

"Maybe somebody who goes there could weigh in, in the chat section..." I would be surprised to find anyone going to Redeemer watching this podcast.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

You would be surprised.

[@johntobey1558]

I believe that people who are concerned with the excessively negative focus are praying fir it's host, and his family to grow and not to resent larger Christian families that have grown quickly.

[@richshoemaker4495]

In “The Black Church” writtten by Henry Louis Gates Jr. Published in 2021. Gates praises “The Black Church” for its progressive views on LGBT+ issues and in the Feminist movement. He praises the “Black Church” for their political role in pushing Liberation Theology and Cultural Marxism. Gates, a Harvard professor and progressive himself, does an excellent job of proudly showing that the “Black Church” has been unorthodox on more issues then just abortion. Keller is so wrong and ill informed on this issue. Of course there all wonderful and solid orthodox Black Churches, but according to professor Gates, “The Black Church” in general is not at all what Keller describes. Gates mainly views the “Black Church” NOT as a means for God through Christ to bring salvation to mankind, rather Gates sees the “Black Church” mainly as a powerful and praiseworthy agent of progressive social and political change. Gates’s analysis fits right in with what Keller seems to be trying to do in pointing out the “Black Church” as a model for White Evangelicals. As Jon pointed out, Keller seems mainly interested in the Church for it Social Utilitarian function in “Social Justice”

[@Zaloomination]

Why does TK keep validating these magazines that hate historic christianity?

[@MarkADever]

He also hates historic Christianity. Open your eyes, buddy.

[@blgannon]

You may get into this further in the video, but what you’re describing is also essentially what Yuval Levin covers in The Great Debate. He of course traces the birth of the modern Left and Right back to the discussion between Thomas Paine and Edmund Burke. My biggest takeaway from Levin’s book was that the Founders were heavily influenced by Paine’s ideology of Reason and the Individual above all, and that those ideas taken to their full logical conclusions are why we are here today. If Reason and the unmoderated liberty of the Individual are the ultimate authority, then we are reaping what we’ve sown. But Burke’s points would’ve been that you are born into obligations that you cannot escape, and these obligations automatically placed moderation and limits on you.

[@johntobey1558]

TKC @ TGC launched just yeturday.

[@tomhitchcock8195]

People leave rural areas to go to New York. Then they are persuaded to cast off rural culture and faith.

[@FTG345]

1:19:55 Gnosticism should be right there, right?

[@marymack1]

In my mind, when I knowingly go into another culture, I study up and make an effort to blend (culturally speaking, not in a sinful compromising way). Does communicating not go both ways?

[@nathanphillipsgo]

Thank you for answering the question about the biblical critical theory book. An interview has been posted on the tgc France website. I fear that most French Christians are falling into the trap. It's where I serve as a missionary.

[@tomhitchcock8195]

Give the people what they want

[@timcummiskey1178]

Did R.C. Sproul take Keller to task?

[@davidlivergood9730]

Too bad RC Sproul is no longer with us… I would love to hear his perspective on some of these issues

[@timcummiskey1178]

@David Livergood yes brother. 👍

[@Bibliotechno]

Fed up with ministers quoting niceties from e.g. Aquinas, Kellor and others, which drives me online to see what else they said. Only to find they are (sometimes subtlety) flawed. Problem is the gullible (some relatives) do same but then swallow it all as gospel.

[@stacydixon5484]

This is the outcome of a man-centered gospel. Keller is trying to dilute the offense that is inherent in the Cross.

[@jeffreyprato]

The family is the building block? Oh, my. You’re totally a Presbyterian now!

[@nicolegilzene7995]

It is very true about what you're saying about the black church and their vote I don't understand them I don't both of people that promote abortion in the killing babies I don't get it

[@AubreyForever]

Keller Knows Best? Really, they away from this video.

[@kevinsolveson5480]

For a variety of reasons, I'm suspect of Keller's Theology, but it seems that you're quibbling here, Jon. Yes, Keller begins the article by defending the church from a utilitarian perspective, but his conclusion is clear: "first and foremost Christianity helps society because its metaphysical claims are true." I.e. the great value of the church to society lies in the guidance it gives in regard to God's existence, good and evil, salvation and damnation, in these metaphysical matters. I think you're making of this article more of social justice piece than it truly is.

[@41093AnthonyB]

Such a sad commentary on modern Christianity today. Makes me think that my Amish Mennonite brethren are right, I should stay away from these Protestant teachers. One by one they are going astray.

[@conceptualclarity]

Why do they regard themselves as not Protestant?

[@41093AnthonyB]

@@conceptualclarity We aren't Protestant. We separated from the Protestant movement and were persecuted by Martin Luther and his followers.

[@conceptualclarity]

@@41093AnthonyBEven though you departed from Lutheranism on bad terms most historians would consider you Protestant.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

It’s affecting every faith tradition.

[@41093AnthonyB]

@@conceptualclarity Most historians are wrong then.