Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker SPOILER DISCUSSION (also includes Frozen 2 spoilers)

*SPOILER ALERT* Mark and Simon go through your emails to discuss Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker in detail - everything that you loved and hated from the final installment in the Skywalker saga.
Just to reiterate: SPOILERS WITHIN

[@sama2086]

"Rey from nowhere becomes rey from somewhere and that was huge mistake" couldn't have put it better myself

[@megacherv]

I know the email is really profound and serious, however I couldn't help but chuckle at the part "watched Star Wars with my Dad aged 5" and thinking " he's a bit young to be a dad"

[@mcatshyamalan8865]

That email with the "dad.. "I know" bit hit me like a train. I was not expecting to burst into tears watching this

[@pietrpiepir6444]

I know :) When I watched it, I initially thought Simon was having trouble getting through it because he was breaking up himself, but now I rewatched it and wonder whether that was it, or he just needed some tea :/

[@humblescribe8522]

@@pietrpiepir6444 No, that was genuine emotion. I've listened to Kermode and Mayo for long enough to spot those rare occasions when Simon is desperately trying not to cry.

[@ThisIsWideAngle]

@@humblescribe8522 Well, it happens every now and then. Mostly while he reads out personal emails which have relatable family topics in it, like losing a relative, or events coming in the upbringing of children...

[@doubledown1138]

I'm a lifelong Star Wars fan. I didn't like The Rise of Skywalker. At all. But you can't argue with an email like that. And that's why cinema is so wonderful. It can be so many things to so many people.

[@GOSTDatingandLifestyle]

Well put sir

[@joekelly7766]

I still don’t understand how they could do a whole trilogy without a coherent roadmap plan.

[@DeltaSpartan141]

They were hoping for a 3 filmmaker driven trilogy. The problem is you had three filmmakers with different visions (one doing it right for the fans, another challenging the fans and the other respecting the other's visions for the end... who got kicked out and replaced for the first one to try to please everyone and no one).

[@jamesbuckingham77]

Simon, you didn't make a mess of reading Katie's email - it was read in exactly the manner it was supposed to be.

[@tylerdurden5303]

I hate all the plotholes in TROS - I can't stand the new trilogy - but when you hear an email like that it's all really inconsequential in the end. Thank you, Lily.

[@ClintBandito]

I really value that woman's comments about why she loved The Rise of Skywalker. While I myself had issues with it after my personal connection to The Last Jedi even through the backlash I appreciate the value it it has her and really respect it. So I'll share what The Last Jedi meant to me personally as well: What they did with Luke in TLJ is far more inspirational to me than any perfect legend could have been. I have me own personal struggles that I won't go into detail on, but often it feels like I'm hopeless, life is hopeless, I'm a mess and there's nothing I can do about it. Luke is favourite Star Wars character and to see him fall into a similar state as me helps me because it says, hey you aren't that pathetic for being and feeling this way, even heroes as great as Luke Skywalker can fall this low. What's even more inspirational is that at the end he finds new hope in himself and the galaxy at large and sacrifices himself in order to preserve hope for the future and inspire the galaxy. This says that no matter how low you feel, how far you have fallen, there's hope for you yet.

[@TheGreenAssassinFTW]

That email was beautiful. I didn't care much for the movie but I'm so glad that the writer of that e-mail was so personally touched by it. Mark's response was great as well.

[@TheCaptScarlett]

This is why we need podcasts and film critics. The infinite monkey cage of social media cannot produce conclusions like this. Plus this has saved me hours of trying rationalise my own questions about the film. I wasn't alone.

[@lolwhatidk]

It almost doesn't even matter what the story was, it all moved so fast that it was almost nauseating. No scene was allowed to play out and breathe. When I left the theater I had a headache.

[@elliotttalksf1825]

That email speaks to a lot of us fans I think, yes we have a go at certain films in the series because of plot holes or shoddy characters and effects but at the end of the day it is one of the greatest things in our lives! 😢😃😃

[@wglucas]

The scene in The Last Jedi when Kylo reveals the truth of Rey's parents is one of my favourite Star Wars moments, so beautifully written and acted and it finally corrected the slightly dodgy narrative that the force only connected to the most privileged of families, it is a terrible shame to have retconned this in the last act

[@ashadeofnight]

Yeah this return to it all being about bloodlines is very facist..

[@Toribot]

“The force only connected to the most privileged of families” The original Skywalkers were literally slaves…

[@martinaseidel3316]

i'm not sure how kermode arrives at the idea that johnson would have killed chewbacca. dude couldn't kill leia.

[@BeccaBerneda]

I am now exhausting my work's supply of tissues after that email from Kate.

[@eamonnbrereton1525]

That was very moving indeed

[@gothamite27]

Mark's final sign off is why he's my favourite film critic and my favourite broadcaster in the world. This is one of the all-time greats. Bravo.

[@antoninbesse795]

Both of you, and your emailing listeners, are genius. Thank you, that was a fabulous few minutes of laughs, tears and empathy.

[@matthewmcneany]

That email about the power of stories to help us bring meaning to our lives, did bring something of a tear to my eye.

[@TimeandMonotony]

That email was so beautiful! My dad was also a huge Star Wars fan, he also died in the mid-aughts when I was young, and I relate to Kylo Ren's inner struggle, so that email really spoke to me. It's feelings like that that make these or any movies worthwhile. I loved TFA and TLJ and had mixed feelings about TROS, but I do think the one character who had a compelling and consistent arc throughout the trilogy was Kylo Ren/Ben Solo, and his subplot was the one part of TROS I fully enjoyed. The character of Kylo/Ben, and Adam Driver's performance, are far and away the best part of the sequel trilogy (which I still love, even if it's not really cohesive as a trilogy.) Also, that dual review of Frozen II and TROS was so perfect! 😂 P.S. As for fixing the Falcon, Jannah (the ex-Stormtrooper they met on the moon they crash-landed on) mentioned they scavenged the parts from the crashed Star Destroyer or whatever it was nearby, which led to the revelation she was also a former Stormtrooper.

[@lisamunoz5017]

Wasn’t expecting that tough email 😢😢

[@AdeBamforth]

The climax to ROS reminded me of Harry Potter without the explanations. The Rey & Ren relationship was the part of the sequels which actually worked and felt like it was building up to something special. That should have been the rightful emotional climax to the trilogy without the need to bring back Emperor Voldemort, and if there's no need to explain how he survived there's no need to resolve who Rey is.

[@ModernModr]

Disney + needs to make a show about the people working on the Sith star destroyers but it's in the style of The Office. It would be called the Officers. The people manning the computers would be uniformed nobodies, the guys in the warehouse would be Sith Troopers, the Big Wig - Palppy, etc. Do this Disney. Take. My. Money. Damn you

[@josiahferrell5022]

They actually did a short video that was similar to this on Saturday Night Live. About Kylo Ren being an undercover boss.

[@hunmiliengtipi9218]

Came for a laugh but left with tears. Kudos to the beautiful email.

[@mlovecraftr]

Leia, like most grandmas: Secretly racist

[@RandomRob74]

While I didn’t hate TROS, I wasn’t loving it either, I enjoyed it but that was that. Then I heard Kate’s email (at 5 min 38 sec), it broke my heart. I’ve heard it several times now. Same effect every time, even when I think about the email my eyes water up. I know that when I watch the inevitable Blu-ray of TROS, I’ll cry a little extra during that scene, and I’ll probably have a little more love for the film than I would if I hadn’t heard that touching email. ❤️

[@davidmclean3946]

Been Watching you guys for years , love the show. And this video says everything.ten more years indeed.

[@kyletitterton]

Wow. Mayo that was... lovely.

[@kevincollier4546]

Can Mr. Chris White become a standard feature on this show?

[@commentcopbadge6665]

Chris *Holt

[@nightwinghunter]

Well that e-mail broke me completely. I'm going to bed. Brilliant though. Same with me.

[@parrogakaparadise9477]

What a beautiful email from that woman and also beautifully read. I had a tear in my eye myself listening to Simon reading it aloud.

[@JimGoddard100]

Both of the final two emails were each great in their own way. No wonder Simon Mayo had to keep taking gulps of tea while he was reading the first of them. Not sure if people ever get prizes for writing emails both of those deserved one.

[@artmaknev3738]

The Rise of the Star Destroyers - finally the mother planet that gives mysterious birth to fully assembled star Destroyers is revealed!

[@huzistiglitz5122]

My mom passed away a few years back. Growing up, we would always watch The Exorcist. Now every time I watched the film, always felt like she is watching it with me

[@justinstephenson9360]

Having watched the film I rather enjoyed it but there were a few scenes which felt like a "Greatest Hits" album "Was Leia a Wookie racist?" - completely brilliant!

[@dsmyify]

That was really good, could you do more like that?

[@omgsolikevalleygirl]

You guys really create a joy of talking and thinking about films... thanks so much for that, I often feel guilty for wasting my time when I let all of these things occupy my brain. When you are discussing films, the joy of it comes to the surface and the purpose is clear.

[@pbarrett78]

I've been binge watching these two for weeks. Always entertaining. Never made me cry before. What a beautiful email, what a beautiful response. 😍

[@reubencanningfinkel5922]

Kate's email made me cry while cleaning up the kitchen. Reminds me to take it easy (sometimes) on my harshest criticisms in film and remember the grandeur, the possibility and empathetic power film can hold. Thanks guys. For everything. I will be a church-going fool till' my dying breath!

[@paulseoighemcgee5772]

Sensitive and humane reading and listening of that letter , boys. Good lads.

[@bennb4342]

Wow.. I got so weirdly choked up on that dad email.

[@22mugwuffin]

Kate's email, as a single dad of two girls aged 6 and 4, and who both know that daddy is a huge star wars fan ( I was born in 1977 and live across the road from george Lucas studio and elstree studios) and constantly point out anything star wars related to myself when we are out....that had me in tears. I cant wait to watch the original trilogy with my Angel's just to see their faces when darth vader tells Luke that he is his father.

[@wgo523]

Secretly a rookie racist? She called that proud wookie a "walking carpet" (apologies for writing out this vile epithet)

[@dimejinky99]

Wannaaend all my love to that lovely lady that sent in that email. You speak for all of us. Sending you all the love and hope you’re seeing this and hope you know your dad loves you and is with you and always will be. All the love💚💚💚

[@StevieNotStevie]

For me that email goes up there with the Angel and Demons one that rescued a guy from a coma

[@glenaitken3471]

Awwww, Simon. That was beautiful.

[@BrendanPramjee]

That email was just amazing!!! 😢😢😢

[@justinreilly6619]

Such a great post! You have some amazing listeners! Loved their emails! 👍

[@themovieguysam2590]

8:03 this is one of the most beautiful testaments to Star Wars I’ve heard in a while. Couldn’t agree more

[@amasulem]

Well, that was unexpectedly emotional

[@mansnotbot4160]

If ever there was an email to show this bickering (amongst the fan base) is pointless, it was Lily's email. I loved some bits about the new trilogy, and I didn't like some bits. But ultimately, I'm really, really grateful for the good bits.

[@SirMontyBagger]

I'd love you guys to do way more spoiler discussions just to hear your thoughts on more specific areas of certain films. Be great if it was a weekly thing.

[@milesfinch]

One of the best reviews you guys have produced. Thank you.

[@ardaraith]

Agree, TLJ was the best of the 3. This new movie caused whiplash.

[@kelvinbaileys]

The medal given to Chewie belonged to Han. Leia had been holding on to it since his death (is my take). Makes the passing of it to Chewie hit a little harder emotionally.

[@mattberry3551]

The thing to remember is Star Wars isn't art house. It's heart is a 40s serial sci-fi movie with space cowboys and wizards. Whilst flawed it was highly enjoyable and a decent end to the trilogy and finally gave use the cameradery between the leads. Of course, being birn in 1970, nothing can match the original trilogy.

[@mattym8038]

just listening to that email, more emotion than any of the previous trilogy movies

[@humoroususername8118]

Mark's comment about the rawness of emotion the stems from film is probably one of the key reasons it's so important to me, as well as just how amazing it is that films can be finished in any way; a feat that's kind of magic.

[@AlexR4444]

Really enjoyed this segment. It wasn't what I expected from the title but, if anything, I enjoyed it more than I would have a session of gripes about plot holes. Thanks both, in particular for reading the moving letter.

[@bryankilvinski]

Lovely and moving reading from Simon :)

[@fitzmaurice88]

Enjoyed Chris's Dual-film summary and probably laughed more than required at "rather nasty grandfather"...

[@Dessydd]

LOVE YOU GUYS. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[@apseudonym]

Damn, that email and the discussion of cinema's effect on our understanding of the human experience was profound.

[@connors.8618]

Low stakes is apt. JJ put in genuinely shocking moments and then pacified the audience in reversing them, fearing backlash from the caustic Star Wars fan base

[@bradshad1]

Oh and if you want to see fan service done well, the start of the last episode of the Mandalorian is how to do it properly

[@Slavenmierech]

I’m not crying, nope. Not at all. Ok . A lot

[@YouFightLikeACow]

Hearing Mark chuckle was great

[@andrewhickinbottom1051]

Dammit - i wasnt expecting Frozen 2 spoilers as well! I was gonna wait til that one was up for rent on amazon prime

[@andrewgrant6516]

The interesting thing about wiping c3po's memory is that when r2d2 restored it, he got back his memory of the prequels too. So just as Chewbacca finally got his medal, threepio finally got his memory back of all his adventures, restoring the injustice done to him in Revenge of the Sith.

[@alanfaulkner1]

Wow laughter ,laughter, tears wasn't expecting that!

[@systemvoid]

I love the way Kermode pronounces Chewbacca man it's amazing

[@artistsometimes2729]

What I'm amazed by is: 1. How people have forgotten how truly awful the last trilogy was (ie. the 'prequels'), 2. That this was developed by Disney to make money, so was always going to be safe. 3. That Disney has never made a critically successful trilogy that it planned ahead of time, 4. That Disney only cares about making money, 5. That this was still a marked improvement on the prequels. 6. How both the fans that loved of The Last Jedi (mostly critics) AND those who HATED the Last Jedi (online fans) both strongly disliked this final film. 7. How entirely predictable it is that Disney managed to make such an incoherent mess of a trilogy: - Force Awakens: Remake of 'A New Hope' with a mixed race/gender lead cast and more expensive visuals. - The Last Jedi: An intriguingly subversive masterpiece which turned the Star Wars formula (essentially 'Cowboys in Space') into something else. - The Rise of Skywalker: Misnamed, the title literally doesn't make sense after the death of Skywalker and the fact he never comes back. Plus Leia is somehow a jedi, sort-of, completes Rey's training... anyhow. This backpedalled MAJORLY on the Last Jedi, in order to appeal to fans. It was a mash-up of Star Wars best bits with amazing visuals, all your favourite characters, no real stakes, a forced romance between Kylo Ren and Rey, Po becoming Han Solo and Lando from Retun of the Jedi, Finn having next to no purpose etc. I actually enjoyed it, but it is definitely a hodge-podge. There are loads of call-backs to the original trilogy etc. Rey IS actually 'someone', there is a prophecy/destiny whatever blah blah. What they did wrong is not give Rian Johnson directorship of ALL there films BUT (wait for it) with JJ Abrams or someone/two other directors co-directing with him. Rian had by far the most to say out of all of these films, but it risked feeling disjointed and too far removed from the conventions of the 'cowboys in space' original model of Star Wars that people flocked to see in the first place and remember so fondly. Indeed, what the last film shows is that fans who didn't like Last Jedi DID want something different, but they wanted it more compellingly fitted into the lore and rules of the Star Wars universe. They didn't like this film, for the sake of plotholes, any more than Kermode did, probably much less. But it still made money and it was made by Disney, with a tortured development, so what did you expect. JJ Abrams is not know of ending things.

[@jed6780]

Many may not care, but, er, the headline should probably also read - major spoilers for Frozen 2!

[@PolarPhantom]

Cinema really is more than we might realise at times.

[@pandarpha7778]

God that mail man. Man read it out loud and seemed taken aback while reading it.

[@daibonehead]

My 12 year saw the film and proclaimed “If Disney make another Star Wars film I’m going to accuse them of necromancy”.

[@dantilley]

The main problems with Rey's lineage are: 1. The Emperor had kids?! Who was their mother (and does that mean he was married too???), where was she during the events of the original trilogy? 2. And where was the Emperor's kid during Return of the Jedi? He would have been a teenager then probably, not much younger than Luke. There was no mention of him or any clue about his existence. I guess the kid could have been hidden away somewhere, but there was no explanation given of his whereabouts.

[@spikeep6141]

The 3PO cop-out upset me greatly, because the set-up in the final trailer caused me to explosively UglyCry when I saw it.

[@davidh9354]

Idk how anyone could believe that The Last Jedi is the best movie of the most recent trilogy, that feels like it's implying that there was much/anything to like about it in the first place. It just was the only one that didn't try at all to be a "Star Wars" movie, whereas the other 2 movies tried too hard. It's not better because it's so "subversive", which people tend to forget can actually be a negative and boring way to make your movie when you're also trying to craft an interesting story, create fun/loveable/relatable or even remotely human characters, and flesh out coherent plots points in service of eventually making the things that happen in the movie feel *important* . Watching it was like having someone yell at me for 2+ hours "none of this matters, there isn't anything particularly interesting or compelling going on, don't bother looking". None of the characters are actually any fun to watch in TLJ, they're all either depressing or they're persnickety curmudgeons who bicker and argue needlessly with one another pretty much all the fucking time. All 3 movies are equally terrible and for a plethora of different reasons. The better movie/trilogy to make lay somewhere in between "do Star Wars again" and "take pretty much everything that isn't surface level turn-your-brain-off-and-watch popcorn fluff bullshit that people like and find interesting about Star Wars and chuck it out the window", with an actual *plan* laid out before filming starts. Either that or don't continue to shit out more Star Wars movies in the first place... I'd rather not have them at all if I'd known they were going to be *this* messy. This trilogy could have been amazing, if they'd spent any time gathering people who actually give a shit about Star Wars to make it and be in it. If they'd ever even bothered to find and harness what people enjoy the most about the original trilogy of movies, ie the characters and how they interact with each other within their believable/well-defined fantasy universe, this could have been such a simple process for Disney. Instead they went and fucked it all up because it feels like they didn't put any genuine effort into creating something interesting or creative using the Star Wars universe. They went and just shit all these movies out as quickly as possible to profit off of the name recognition and fandom. Hitting everyone over the head with nearly the exact same script as A New Hope (in the case of TFA), which wasn't entirely a bad thing as people love A New Hope and despite how safe/bland it is, it tried to give a basis to build off of in the next entries. In the case of TLJ, it feels like they were doing their best to absolutely shit all over the fandom and everything that people actually like about Star Wars that brought them in as fans in the first place. TRoS is essentially just "damage control: the movie" instead of actually attempting to bring the story or characters in a new/interesting/creative direction. The movie literally moves too fast on purpose to make sure that you don't spend too long actually thinking about what it is that you're being shown

[@euansmith3699]

I want to give Simon Mayo a big hug.

[@robinhawes8843]

Love this chat!

[@Charlesbn88]

Amazing!

[@castlef129]

Love it. Thank you.

[@johnoconnor4072]

Kermode and Mayo, please do more spoilers! I would love to know some of Marks thoughts on many Cinematic attempts from yesterday and yesteryear. His opinion is often smothered in an attempt to preserve experience (which is understood) and I like more.

[@fatheranthony4pope]

The love in that room! 😍❤️💌💕

[@jackhammer40k_]

Wonderful

[@dazura9262]

I was not ready for that email....

[@MrG77]

Mark :-" where are they going to get spares .".!

[@thomaspattinson3977]

Brilliant!

[@mojobag01]

There's peerless and then there's not even close.

[@SimonDuffy2]

Where did those star destroyers come from? A good question indeed. Second only to the question of why weren't these military behemoths able to simply go up, when a galaxy's worth of ragtag, nothing to lose rebel ships could go down. Star Wars technology...talk about inbuilt obsolescence.

[@spikeep6141]

“The Lowest Level of Hell is The Worst. It is Frozen. To reach The Coldness of Life - Loneliness and Meaninglessness - is The Worst Experience a human being goes through, worse than the Fiery Aspects of Hell. Under the guidance of Virgil, Dante gets to The Bottom of Hell and just keeps going. You don’t come out of Hell through the door you entered. You go through it and out the other side. On the other side of Hell lies Heaven.”

[@roweproductions9424]

Ah the banter 😂

[@54tisfaction]

That e-mail with the comparison between Frozen 2 and Rise of Skywalker was spot on, and highlights the problem of scripts these days.

[@boredgrass]

Unlike other review channels, no attempts to "entertain", instead reflections that distill insights and emotions, where they matter. Movie review as an artform.

[@thompompey32]

Rey doesn't need to be from anywhere. I know the original trilogy was all about Luke and Leia's hidden heritage, but how many other characters have insignificant or mysterious back stories? They did not plan for her to be a Palpatine. End of discussion.

[@matthewakian2]

That's a great letter Chris White.

[@spikeep6141]

“I thought you said you wanted to get out of this town too.” “Because I want to run *TOWARDS* Something, not away.”

[@ezzong]

I facepalmed through the whole movie. But that email was very moving that maybe in the end it didn't matter.

[@jmcusack]

"Where are you going to get the spares? 3D Printers.