Keto vs mediterranean, which is better?

There's plenty of controversy surrounding a new study from Stanford claiming that Mediterranean and keto diets are the same for blood sugar control, but keto diets are more dangerous. But the data don't support these conclusions. We are fortunate to be able to interview Dr. Lucia Aronica, one of the study's authors, and she helps explain why the paper was written in a seemingly biased way.
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[@Skadi_Strength]

What a fantastic discussion. If only all studies could be discussed like this, the nutrition world would be a far better place. Thank you, both.

[@m-hadji]

Thanks Dr. S to hold people accountable. I am not in any diet tribe I successfully managed my diabetes and weight with moderation and IF. but cutting Carb was the key and the reason I haven’t failed in my last attempt started 10 months ago. No rice no pasta no bread and definitely as less as fruit as possible even zero for some week. I check every food intake or activity with CGM data. By the way my Lipid markers did not change or even slightly better even though I stopped 5 deferent medications.

[@vas4739]

I feel it’s sad that just because I was successful with my “better health journey “ and greatly improved my metabolic markers my Medicare feels I’m not eligible for a CGM. It’s so helpful for “prediabetic” patients to see what foods effect THEM. Actually knowing what we know about Big Harma I feel it’s diabolical. Being on social security and food stamps I’m proud of my accomplishments in spite of my doctor. But a CGM could help even for a short while.

[@sharkair2839]

@@vas4739 next time you see your doctor, spike your glucose, eat a little rice. tell him you are fasting. that should do it.

[@ejapuk]

@@sharkair2839 😅

[@lily5952]

​@vas4739 just want to say congratulations on taking charge of your health on such a limited budget. It is no mean feat. In my country, CGMs are only covered by insurance if you are type 1 diabetic. There is still this tacit blaming of individuals with type 2 that it is purely their fault and thus don't "deserve" the extra help. Well, it's been well known for some time now that type 2 diabetes also has a genetic component, not to mention the absolutely wrong advice meted out to people with insulin impairments by so called professionals. I'm sorry you are ineligible for the CGM but I'm glad you are not diabetic :)

[@zerocarbdoc]

Dr. Gardner is going to always support his Med diet, he has been that way for over 5 years, I took his course at Stanford and his decision is made and he will always be that way. So sad his mind is closed and he has such a big role in Nutrition not sure what his motivation is but he will never change his mind.

[@gazels11]

Just pure stubbornness I imagine.

[@iss8504]

How can you ofricially change your mind when you've made a career out of your position? Look at Tim Noakes. Changing his mind got him cancelled.

[@thalesnemo2841]

Yes VEGANISM is a religiously based belief system! Gardener is a well spoken and soft sells his religious beliefs.

[@REGENETARIANISM]

Which "Mediterranean Diet"? The made-up one by plant based advocates? Or the various diets actually consumed by people in the Mediterranean region- many of which include fermented meats/dairy, pork, fish & lamb? kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y52niIyrht6tn7s

[@ellanola6284]

Narcissism?

[@Philly1958]

As a fellow Italian I can tell you how hard it was to remove the three P’s.

[@jcm4923]

I'm Italian too, but I don't want insulin for dessert.

[@sgprox021]

And yet Italians live long, this is an end result . . .

[@jcm4923]

@@sgprox021 but Italians from the Mediterranean live a different life style. They don't sit behind a desk. They burn up those carbs They also know how to laugh, how to live, how to live.

[@ChrisFit-ChristopherDaCosta]

I basically married the 2 diets! I do Mediterranean "Keto" so Mediterranean but eliminating pasta, breads and grains and getting my fats form predominantly olive oil, fish and meat so for me, 80% fish and only 10% meat.

[@wiiiz3]

thats the only bad thing about Mediterranean diet, they allow too much grains. My carbs are mainly sweet potato & oats. i recently removed gluten free bread because its too expensive & even the gluten-free option is hard for me to digest. for meat, i do 50% fish, 35% eggs, 7.5% chicken, 7.5% oysters.

[@ChrisFit-ChristopherDaCosta]

@@wiiiz3 No don't eat thye grains. Do the Mediteranean "Keto" diet you it all mediteranean except grains, pasta, rice (any type evenm brown rice) and anuy bread. Basically elliminate carbs. I am diabetic Type 2 and blood sugar is normal without taking a single med! Sweets are from fruits with low glycemic index; think berries evn an apple is allowable. I brisk walk 5 miles a day at 16 min pace, drink lots of water eliminate all diet soda. Went from 185lbs to 164 in just 3 mnnths. Not everyopne can stick to it so it is tough until you get used to it then it is easy! I cheat once a month wherein I will have a slice or 2 of pizza .

[@shekatagani]

We must be like detectives when We hear anything in The News Media. This regards to all subjects, Health, Diet, Politics, Etc. Thanks for the great info and Video!

[@rtsaldivar]

Loved the discussion and share the frustration noted by Dr Bret. 5 plant food contributors a 1 Keto contributor unfortunately tilts the scales in a predetermined direction w/ 1 opposing view to “pretend” that the study “was unbiased” and “scientific.” As a t2 diabetic, my doc recommended the Mediterranean diet but after reviewing the diet consumables, it was a plant based diet w/ little red meat and moderate amounts of fish for protein. As I became more aware that carbs are sugars, it was an easy analysis to cut carbs; so I did and miraculously (to me anyway) lost 20 lbs in 10 weeks. I did this w/o breaking a sweat and w/o cravings for sugars, breads or legumes. I was satiated. My doc was also pleasantly shocked as my A1C dropped from 6.9 to 5.8! 😱 So, aside from the study I’m peacefully and willfully moving on w/ my low carb (Keto) diet and and anticipate more results. 😊 Also, I would like to hear your guests input in how after 25 yrs on a Mediterranean diet she moved to Keto. Looking forward to more Diet Doctor interviews w/ other interesting docs! 😊

[@LuciaAronica]

🙏Thanks, Bret! I hope my perspective on the KetoMedStudy provided more context and helped people focus on the bottom line: Food can be medicine for blood glucose management and people have options!

[@fbrown2014]

You did a brillant job enhancing the discussion section of this recently published study. When a nuanced understanding of the intersection of nutrition and metabolic health emerges, it will be because of you and researchers like you.

[@LuciaAronica]

@@fbrown2014 🙏 So glad to hear this was helpful! Thank you so much for your kind comment.

[@BruceDArcus]

You describe your own diet as a "hybrid" of the two and "very close to a ketogenic diet"? What does that mean in practice? That it's higher in fat and lower in carbs than the Med-Plus, but you basically don't worry about being in nutritional ketosis?

[@LuciaAronica]

@@BruceDArcus Hi Bruce. Yes, What I mean is that I derive all my carbs from above-ground vegetables and nuts and most of my fats from olive oil and fatty fish. I don't track my macros nor measure my ketones and I eat until I am full. Based on my first tracking data when I started keto for the first time, I assume my blood ketones oscillate between 0.5 M and 1.5M with this approach.

[@alexmorgan3435]

She was a very engaging speaker. Thanks for inviting her onto your channel. Would love to hear more of her thoughts on Keto and Mediterranean diets.

[@LuciaAronica]

Thanks Alex! Anytime

[@AnaMahsati]

I agree! I'd love more about those two diets.

[@gilcavalcanti8250]

I’m a fan of the channel. A lot of nice content here. This interview was awesome, certainly among the best you have done (and there are many excellent ones in the library)

[@fdbassociatesllc7889]

Great discussion-she was correct: you ARE helping people discern what science is discovering about nutrition. Although having your own perspectives, I love how you let the science be your polestar and seek out credible sources no matter where they fall on the food ideological spectrum. Respect and thanks!!

[@zerocarbdoc]

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you Dr. Lucia!!!! Love your work and respect your professionalism.

[@LuciaAronica]

Thank you so much for your kind words, Ron!

[@aprilek6003]

Love this - thanks you two - Keto for me - Med for someone else - no problem here just let me eat they way that I find works for me

[@mimimo555]

This woman is intelligent, great discussion, and I love her hair 😊

[@michelesteward5170]

💯

[@debraengland3827]

Would love to see more of this on a regular basis: helping to educate all of us not only on specific studies but also on how to analyze, evaluate & critique "scientific" findings & published studies. As Russell Brand so cleverly stated recently: "The problem with 'Follow the Science' is that the science follows the money!" Academic standards today are not what they once were. Scientism looms large; students are taught to think and to research within the guardrails of acceptable ideologies & dogmas -- which leads to further lowering of professional standards & rigor, and to even more of all the above enumerated corrosion and corruption in politicized and/or financially-interested "science". Videos such as this helps to educate all of us on how to wend our way through the published research and helps us develop a skill-set based on established standards for evaluation and analysis of methodology, conclusions, etc. The great universities once taught this consistently. It is amazing to see the internet democratize education in scientific methodology for us "great unwashed" while the elites increasingly abandon these standards. Please do more of this!

[@alexmorgan3435]

What a load of rubbish. Science has always had political interference eg the Church in Gallileo and Copernicus' time as their scientific findings and theories did not suit the Catholic Church and then scandals like Thalidomide and DDT or blood transfusion scandals, BSE, Dupont and CFC non stick pan surfaces poisoning America, the total misappropriation of genetics by the Nazis. She was right that what ever the science you have to be a healthy sceptic and all scientific finding should be subject to scrutiny and peer review.

[@rtsaldivar]

What a wonderful comment w/ depth of analysis ! 👌 I especially liked you statement “The problem with ‘Follow the Science’ is that science follows the money!” Brilliant statement as we’re seeing more of this as an educated public.

[@peggyhanford1208]

Thank you for this discussion. It is a great summary of how to look sceptically at scientific abstracts. Bias is such a critical aspect of research and conclusions. I agree that if all studies (particularly concerning nutrition) were evaluated this way we would be so much better informed!

[@BigPictureYT]

Thanks. It would be very easy to eat a low-carb version of Mediterranean foods - fish, shellfish, lamb, pork, cheese, broccoli, and lots of cucumber, tomato, and feta with plenty of olive oil and balsamic vinegar.

[@A1N0]

First, a 12 week study?? Really?? I've been Keto 7 months, and I STILL don't think things haven't fully stabilized. 12 weeks is a JOKE. So had my first full 7-month Keto blood test. LDL has NOT changed. Triglycerides and cholesterol were WAY down. HDL was just OK but because of not going to the gym because of COVID and living in AZ in the summer, my exercise is down a bit. I want to get my HDL higher. Average glucose and insulin levers were great. All other blood tests were great. Best blood test of my life. Also note, while Keto is well defined, mediterranean is not really clearly defined. And certainly, MANY "mediterranean" foods are also Keto. As a "Keto" person, I try to incorporate many mediterranean foods. And recently I discovered LightLife foods, which are Keto and Vegan. A Keto diet doesn't have to be all full of meat. But again, 12 weeks!!! If you can only stay on a diet for 12 weeks, why bother? Keto can be a life long diet, and research on it should be 6 months or longer.

[@greeniejeannie]

I've started my 3rd year Keto.

[@greeniejeannie]

@@notgunnadoit7461 I only eat one meal a day anyway. The problem I do have with Keto is fruit and vegs. I get a small amount of wild blueberries that just doesn't cut it. I'm having a really difficult time this summer. I want peaches, water melon. Sometimes I think if I don't get ONE FIG I'm going to snap. LOL. I don't cheat either. I saw a video that scared me really badly so I don't cheat. Doesn't too much protein mess with your kidneys?

[@TabithaLarissa]

I’m on my 3rd year of Keto and no complaints. Self control, self discipline and healthy lifestyle.

[@fbrown2014]

​@@greeniejeannieToo much protein, I woud think, is hard to succumb to when faatty meats are available when you hunger for them. I've heard of rabbit starvation. But have you ever seen reports of lamb or beef starvation? I doubt people who avoid protein supplements will eat too much protein if they vary the meats in their diet.

[@greeniejeannie]

@@notgunnadoit7461 Thanks I'll do that Dr. Paul Salidino. LOL

[@hollyberry7145]

Excellent interview. Without doubt the reduction of medication made by the keto group should be written about in detail. This is the most important part of the study that needs to be widely proclaimed, for the sake of every diabetic and prediabetic out there.

[@glennsak]

This was excellent. Thank you.

[@GaryMeadowsMusic]

The main thing is fasting long enough to keep your insulin levels down, most people at least Americans, just eat all the time. Fasting is free and most people are just selling something. Nobody makes money on fasting.

[@skinnydee1886]

I'm a type two diabetic and I DON'T follow Keto or the Mediterranean diet but "MY OWN". I consume low-carb, moderate protein and fats. I also eliminated grains and starchy foods, and I'm doing very well because "not only" my HbA1c and Cholesterols have improved but also my overall health! Thank you Dr. Aronica and Dr. Scher; God bless you guys🙏

[@susankitchin325]

Thanks for providing this insight into the study. It will give us knowledge to fight the misconceptions created, when we're talking about the keto way of eating with others. Maybe papers should provide the conflicts of interest at the beginning, so the reader can filter the results through that information.

[@MarmaladeINFP]

There is another reason this is a problematic comparison. A traditional Mediterranean diet, like most traditional diets, is relatively lower carb. And of course, one could do a diet that combines Mediterranean and keto. They aren't contradictory diets. Many traditional Mediterranean people probably were regularly in ketosis, when one considers they likely ate smaller and fewer meals combined with high levels of physical activity and intermittent fasting. When Ancel Keys studied the people of Crete, he never acknowledged they practiced intermittent fasting for religious reasons.

[@apo.7898]

he didn't because they don't

[@julianpaxton5750]

Thank you an excellent high quality discussion.

[@vas4739]

To acknowledge the FACT that even physiologically everyone is different also means a healthy bias. This video-on a professional level was excellent.

[@georgemarkets1]

Diet doctor, you deserve credit for fighting against the status quo. I’m glad your team isn’t afraid to call out those biased studies and held their authors accountable

[@philmartz]

Thank you Dr! Excellent discussion, but troubling. Of course, even scientists have biases. But they seem to be too willing to conduct the research and conclusions including those biases, rather than what we would hope that scientists strive to conduct science via the scientific method and actively work to remove their biases. What really puzzles me is that Dr. Aronica is an author but has so many fundamental disagreements with the contents of the work! What are your standards? When there are multiple authors I expect them all to be fully cognizant and in agreement on every word. You shouldn't have co-authors saying "well I didn't write that part"! If your name is on it, it's your paper.

[@LuciaAronica]

Thank you for your comment, Phil. I understand your frustration. We can only bring about a revolution from the inside out ;). I appreciate the opportunity to work with Gardner's group and provide some balance when I am the leading author and can shape the analysis. I will be the leading voice on a new manuscript that will hopefully be published in 2023. Stay tuned!

[@philmartz]

@@LuciaAronica Dr. Aronica, Thank you for your reply and your interview with Dr. Scher. Very much appreciated. I agree that at least one way to bring about a revolution is from the inside. Kudos to you for working within that sphere and applying your expertise. Another way to influence a revolution is for the scientific community to up its game and the knowledgeable public continuing to critique the research. We all need to work together to get the correct understandings. I'm looking forward your new paper.

[@iss8504]

Dr Aronica is the most stylish of the low carb doctors.

[@LuciaAronica]

🙏

[@jameskantor0459]

Please let me know when it’s study how much the triglyceride and HDL ratio changed

[@kikitaughtme]

This is a progressive discussion and I admire Dr Bret Scher for being open minded to be able to sit down and talk with people of different views

[@davefurgal909]

Have learned the 3Ps of life insurance, the 3Ps of Italian diet and now I add the 3Ps of Polish diet. Pierogi (fried, stuffed dumplings), Paczki (sugar covered jelly donuts - MMMMM!) and Placki (potato pancakes - like Jewish latke)!!

[@jasonellis1793]

Both are great imo. I prefer the Mediterranean just because high blood pressure runs in my family. I had somewhat high blood pressure and started the Mediterranean diet and my blood pressure dropped to great number. My dad had super high cholesterol levels and switch to the Mediterranean diet and those numbers shot down and he got takem off his cholesterol and blood pressure meds. I haven't tried the keto but hey some people swear by it and I don't think there's a 1 size that fits all.

[@canadiensuperman6496]

Thanks GOD for people like you guys i personally love keto and fasting

[@sanautin]

Interesting and informative 👍

[@leibmoshe]

This is not open to debate. The Longevity Institute in California has studied intensively 39 diets and the Mediterranean ranks number 1 every year. The Carnivore diet ranks dead last. I am a 51 year natural bodybuilder for 37 years. I am very muscular and strong. People say I look 10-20 years younger than I am. My blood work is phenomenal. I eat the Mediterranean diet that's about 80% plant based and filled with tons of fruits, vegetables, grains, etc...

[@mikerodgers1971]

Is there a link to the recent paper Lucia and colleagues published on this---it is very interesting as CDC inly recently added these two nutrition frameworks to their guidance on diabetes II..

[@Lee-Darin]

Maybe a combination of the two would work?

[@Sparkling-Cyanide]

Are you going to interview the other authors of the study?

[@sharvo6]

Interesting peek behind the study.

[@SimplyHuman186]

Ketoterean

[@angelgirldebbiejo]

Like a loose keto, like ketovore

[@hoboonwheels9289]

I make "shrimp" puffs replacing the flour with pork rind I powder and sardines instead of shrimp. Yum!

[@FoodasmedicinebyDrRose]

Thanks

[@pubwvj]

Every time I hear “the Mediterranean Diet” I think about that when the diet was studied it was during Lent which made it so what they were eating was completely non representative of what people really eat in the Mediterranean. For one thing they eat quite a bit of pork, lamb and goat.

[@hortensemason4073]

Abstracts should present things balanced and truthful, especially knowing one's own bias.

[@mauricioliscano847]

No doctor seems to be talking about Otto Warberg and tumor cells inability to create glucose from fat.

[@sms9106]

Lack of Pasta is a very hard sacrifice I have made on KETO.

[@ellanola6284]

Make Keto pasta sometimes.

[@auveus5036]

@@ellanola6284 what is "keto pasta"

[@heredianna2496]

@@ellanola6284 But keto pasta is not pasta. It's like eating vegan burger or vegan cheese.

[@sharkair2839]

it took me awhile but i no longer miss pasta. no one ate more pasta than me. i do crave pizza at times. perhaps for my birthday i'll have a slice or two.

[@auveus5036]

@@sharkair2839if you still crave pizza is that not a problem to consider in the keto diet even why you still desire it?

[@stanleysokolow]

The legal profession has a tradition of handling differences of opinions. In judicial decisions, the judges (when there are more than one) write a majority opinion and when there is dissent, the dissenting judge(s) write their dissenting opinion. Then all of the opinions are published together. I've never read a scientific paper where the multiple authors have included a dissenting opinions section.

[@dimitriradoux]

What did you expect from Gardner? He went on Simon Hills podcast and misrepresented the results completely.

[@nitfitnit]

I wish plant-based cultists understood that they are killing people with their bad advice.

[@iss8504]

Note that both diets are low carb and whole food. That's why there was no difference. Many people do Mediterranean in a high carb way. The headlines over simplify, as usual.

[@anthonyposelenzny3098]

The best way for these scientific papers to present their conclusions is to let each participant write their conclusions rather than having one take away written by the leader.

[@Brian-lb3zo]

What happened to body type metabolism identification? Some people can live better on one diet while others need a different diet for optimum health.

[@jackwardrop4994]

Remarkable interview because this is a co-author who states 5 reasons to….how do I say politely, have another take on the study.

[@ronbarber197]

No carbs is good for me see how carbohydrates are not an essential nutrients for the human body...done...drop the mic

[@robyroby1902]

Lucia can certainly understand me.... I'm Italian, very italian... Although I do something completely different for leaving, I LOVE cooking even more than eating 😋🧑‍🍳 and the most enjoyable foods to prepare are pasta and bread 🍞 Literally putting your hands into the dough is soooo relaxing and satisfying... My freezer is full of bread and home made pasta and someone has to eat it at a certain point 🤷‍♀️ sometimes I invite friends but often my meals are composed by a lovely dish of tortelloni with a delicious sauce in which I then make "scarpetta"😂 (eat the sauce that is in the plate after having eaten the pasta with bread 😋) It wouldn't be difficult for me to eat less carbohydrates.... What's difficult is cooking less carbohydrates 😂

[@sgprox021]

And yet Italians live long, this is an end result, not a biased study or not

[@robyroby1902]

@@sgprox021 what do you mean? Maybe enjoying food is healthy as well. Anyway, with all these carbs during the summer I had put on a couple of kg and I'm loosing them eating keto. No pasta e no bread since last week and I've already lost 1 kg. I believe that carbs are bad but a bit every now and then won't kill me.

[@eringo-bragh4243]

Cross over design, very powerful

[@pointshealthcoaching8474]

The benefit of the keto diet is precisely the higher saturated fats which support much needed cholesterol production, especially as we age to support muscle protein synthesis, hormones and their conversion to active forms and the immune system. The Mediterranean diet isn't "a thing" - actually, it's a buzz term that imitates "paleo - diet"

[@annaclarepolttila6256]

Did the Stanford study actually define “the Mediterranean diet the subjects used, and the “ Keto diet used in the study? I ask because these terms are applied to such a range of food groupings in common usage? Can you share the exact prescribed foods used and schedule of eating as well for both groups as these factors can be hugely impactful, IMHO. Thank you!

[@Marta_is_here]

LDL going up, and eating too much saturated fat is extremely detrimental for people with Familial Hypercholesterolaemia. 1 in aprox 250 people have a variant. It's not that rare. The NORD website has more info on FH if anyone is uneducated on this GENETIC disorder. The more you know.

[@RafaelBirkner]

I love mediterranean diet on my cheat days... Pizza, Lasagne, Pasta, Risotto :)

[@fryertuck6496]

What people need to appreciate is how generally poor today's vegetables are. We are seeing veg with a nutrient factor -60 times, yes -60 times and not 60% of heirloom varieties grown in nutritious soils! Keto ends up being silly with people trying to fake dishes they used to eat with almond which is massively high in omega 6. Just leave carbs and veg and try carnivore, it's emancipating!

[@bradfordsimms715]

Thanks Doc, yet another example of plant bias that is distorting the numbers. The motive may be well intended but the result is a very sick population world wide.

[@jameskantor0459]

Some people just like plant bases diet

[@bradfordsimms715]

@@jameskantor0459 That's lovely ,the problem is the influencer class do whatever it takes to win the argument and the consumer becomes the victims of bad information. KETO ,lo carb is just the latest example of the settled science crowd. If the data was valid it would not be necessary to distort or flat lie .

[@honkytonk4465]

There's no place for narratives in science!

[@DarthNoshitam]

My [admittedly cynical] takeaway is that the lead researcher gets to decide what the research says

[@cesarhernandez3865]

Ok, who won?

[@ketodreamofficial]

The keto diet is absolutely life-changing! Start now, you'll thank yourself later ! 😍🥑

[@fredsmit3481]

It would help if she compared an actual keto diet. "Avoiding legumes, fruits, and whole intact grains" does not make a diet keto. A keto diet is a diet that puts someone in ketosis, and has nothing to do with the type of food. A Mediterranean diet can be perfectly keto. I've been in ketosis for over 5 years and I eat legumes and fruits. I'm on a keto diet because I'm in ketosis not because I eat or don't eat particular foods. In order to compare a keto diet to a non-keto diet she must measure ketones! The measurements will ensure that the people on the so-called keto diet actually produced ketones and the so-called Mediterranean diet were not producing ketones.

[@AikoHiraeth]

I've never heard of anyone dieing painful horrible deaths from either diet

[@carrdoug99]

The plant based tribes bias is stunning. LDL argument without proper context at this point is laughable.

[@Battery-kf4vu]

What about lipid peroxidation in the 2 diets? I take it the diets must have had a lot of MUFAs, which can be easily oxidized.

[@philmartz]

Again, much appreciated for this discussion. Here is a recent video that is outstanding for showing just how serious of a situation nutrition science and medicine is in. I thought I knew this, but the stories here bring home the pervasiveness of the issue: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6jSp4t8r7qpnMk

[@pubwvj]

The real Mediterranean diet includes fatty red meats such as pork, lamb and even beef as well as chicken and dairy. The original study was done during Lent giving a false list of dietary choices. This gives a false mythology that the Mediterranean diet is plant based which is very far from the truth. The results of eating it are good, but what they really eat in the Mediterranean is not plant based, it is a whole food based omnivorous diet including lots of dairy and red meat. Too many people are confusing animal based nutrients with processed foods.

[@pubwvj]

There is enormously amount of bias in research and data analysis as well as presentation bias. It is sickening. Do science and let the chips.fall where. They are confusing each lther and they public.

[@canalroadadventures5079]

Gardner is vegan, so we can disregard anything he has to say re: nutrition.

[@Merzui-kg8ds]

It is bizarre to suggest keto lacks key nutrients. Laughable. On a low carb diet, we eat greens, peppers, mushrooms, zucchinni, avocado, and on and on. You would be hard pressed to find a missing nutrient.

[@tazot4064]

Fiber is the main mission nutrient. Only 30 grams of carbs or so is permitted, and that's way too little.

[@auveus5036]

@@tazot4064 not really. all the veg, berries and etc seem to do it why is everyone saying fiber is so hard to get in keto?

[@tazot4064]

@@auveus5036 Because that's not enough fiber. 30 grams of carbs is almost no fiber.

[@aureliandumitru8382]

None! Carnivore is the way, not just the ``diet`` word!

[@Marta_is_here]

Well, maybe for YOU. Everyone is not YOU

[@aureliandumitru8382]

@@Marta_is_here Same old boring reply! Like you are copy paste from one another! Not even worth my time to explain the reason behind my stratement. By the way, EVERYONE has the same genetics for thousands of years. But not all of us are hear the wake up bell!

[@Marta_is_here]

@@aureliandumitru8382 LMAO Ok 👌🏻

[@cassieoz1702]

As usual, careful 'curating' of discussion and conclusions of the same kind that has left nutrition research with such poor credibility.

[@rh001YT]

Prior to agriculture carbs were sparely eaten by humans. Fruits available only in season and smaller and much less sweet than today. Tubers only findable here and there from time to time and not so easily cooked...could roast some of them over a fire....but they didn't satiate. Nuts, seeds....not enough available at any one time to matter. Only in some tropical environments were some eatable trees available. No-meat Hindus are typically fat and in bad health. Look at those bellies on cops in India. And the women...well you can tell their fat but they sort of hide it under the sari. Massai of Africa look really healthy and eat like pre-agriculture humans.

[@Marta_is_here]

LDL going up, and eating too much saturated fat is extremely detrimental for people with Familial Hypercholesterolaemia. Somehow this was ignored. 1 in aprox 250 people have a variant. It’s not that rare. The NORD website has more info on FH if anyone is uneducated on this GENETIC disorder. Legumes are tasty and awesome, I agree… they are a big part my high plant mostly pescatarian diet, FYI

[@cassieoz1702]

I've never seen any (sensible) keto authority suggest that keto is for everyone, unlike the 'plant based' (whatever they mean by that) and vegan researchers. Keto should routinely be offered as an OPTION where long term dietary modification would be helpful and there is no contraindication

[@Marta_is_here]

@@cassieoz1702 Yes, Sensible is the key word! I’m mainly directing this comment to the dogmatic, mostly uneducated commenters in this post who don’t really understand the ins and out.

[@heksogen4788]

Mediterranean diet -a diet named by person who has no idea about Mediterranean cuisine lol.

[@MsTony1402]

What am I listening to here?!? She should have refused to put her name against this study given her acknowledging all these shortcomings! It‘s just annoying...

[@fbrown2014]

I suspect you felt there were flaws in Gardner.2022 before listening to Dr. Lucia Aronica. She was not the lead author so the reader immediately knows she did not control the narrative. But properly interpreted (which I believe Dr. Aronica does) the article does add data to the literature. I have no problem with the study's outcome data. I too am annoyed by the lead author's spin when he discusses what the outcome data means and the conclusions he makes. I am grateful that researchers like Dr. Aronica are in the trenches doing the hard work which must be done. I think she is doing the best anyone could do in the complicated world of nutritional research and deserves respect. I hope that she continues contributing the literature.

[@LuciaAronica]

Dear Chris, I understand your frustration. But I appreciate the opportunity to work with Gardner's group and provide some balance when I have more room to do so. We can only bring about a revolution from the inside out ;). I will be the leading voice on a new manuscript that will hopefully be published in 2023. Stay tuned!

[@williammaurer9450]

Frustration is a luxury problem. It's a nice problem to have.

[@digressr]

it seems to me that you both are defending a point. I feel it was actually as bias as anything due to the fact that you are defending a point and the other is that she had a part in creating Keto. In my opinion, find a doctor you like and trust and follow their advice. Hopefully they will have read this study and other research to better advise you and your particular situation. Please don't just listen content creators on KZbin. I'm certain both of these folks would agree.