KHORNE, GREENSKINS, AND OGRES?! The Leaks were Wrong! ...Maybe? Let's Discuss This Mess

[@loremasterofsotek]

Vampiric Bloodlines DLC Proposal Series link: kzbin.info/aero/PLU87zZ6WGqQKawE78BaGyTJe3-SnSUchj EDIT: WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO MY MIC SETTINGS

[@svenbrede6151]

You know, I think CA made shadows of change while developing thrones of decay in parallel. That way they have more time for conceptual work. Also we'll never get a vamp coast rework *cries in corner*

[@charlesman8722]

The dlc can be summed as: WAAAAAGH!!! RAAAAGH!!! FOOOOOD!!!!

[@Smarackto]

WWAHHHHGHHH!!!! RAGHHHHH!!!!! MAWWWWWWW!!!!!!

[@WurrzagsMorkyMischeif]

WAAAAAAAAGH! RAAAAAAAAGH! *BUUUUUUUURP*

[@Warpmek]

I'm not surprised the "leaks" were wrong. Base game factions not getting dlc in favour of just Cathay was too.....dumb

[@misterhyde408]

Not to mention the dogs of war one... 9 units and 2 LL for a race pack is a f##kin scam

[@InquisitorThomas]

Like I can see Cathay being the “Skaven” of Game 3 with the multiple province set up and the 5 Dragon Children making obvious Legendary Lord picks, but them just getting all the DLC is absurd.

[@RYUcaEU]

like the community was asking/talking about greenskins lmao 💀 i've never seen a single comment about greenskins dlc in the last year, literally nobody asked new content or whatever for them. They're super solid and strong already, and they have One of the biggest roster in the entire game. Why in the world would CA give them content/love in the next DLC? Wtf? 💀

[@josephdoria5237]

@@RYUcaEUMaybe the greenskins will just get an FLC lord or something and the meat of the dlc will be Ogres and Khorne. As far as I know, we don’t have any explicit confirmation that this will be a 3-race dlc, just that it will have “something” for Khorne, Ogre Kingdoms, and Greenskins.

[@MidnightBlackandVictoria]

I thought they were BS because of "Star Wars" total war. Not only is this a big Disney license, but they have made the franchise VERY unpopular in recent years. It isnt the beloved franchise it once was. And their marketing teams would know this. They arent idiots.

[@nakenmil]

Can we all just appreciate Sotek for making this video from inside his one-man submersible on the way down to the wreckage of the Titanic?

[@bluemilkalienmonster522]

Hopefully he made the appropriate sacrifices to Mathlann before he went, unlike the last party

[@caretaker2222]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!

[@CommanderBohn]

And milk for the khorneflakes. Now with 2x the blood and strawberry.

[@caretaker2222]

@@CommanderBohnwith a side of meat and greenskin salad lol

[@CatGamer794]

And sum teef!

[@letsplaysvonaja1714]

WAAAGH!

[@herrhosen7509]

WAAAAAAGGGHHH for Gork and possibly Mork!

[@mrcobraking9945]

The thing that had me doubtful about the leaks was the idea Cathay would have a subfaction about ogres, considering most of the dragons hate them.

[@HH-hd7nd]

Not all of them. Zhao Ming gets along well with ogres and we know for a fact that some ogres live in Cathay and work for Cathay - that is established lore.

[@mrcobraking9945]

I know. That is why I said most. Probably should have specified.

[@R3GARnator]

No centerpiece units. C.A. loves their big monsters. We getting giant squigs.

[@jiado6893]

Well if the Monkey King is going to be a subfaction, who we KNOW beefs with the dragons, then it would make sense for an Ogre subfaction to exist. They don't have to get along with the baseline faction.

[@NiklasMJ]

@@jiado6893 Also as a ''mercenary'' faction it wouldn't be hard to think that that beef would not extent to these ogre's or atleast lessened with them as the Cathayan dragons prob would be hiring them from time to time

[@bluemilkalienmonster522]

LoS sounds like he’s calling from a gas station phone booth outside Flagstaff, AZ

[@Ares42]

With the way production pipelines work there's absolutely no way they pivoted to the reaction of the leaks. The main outline of this next DLC was already determined months ago.

[@Jukrates]

Corn, Meat and Shrooms, gonna be some dish

[@madsboandersen5316]

Also, I'd love to see an Arbaal the Undefeated campaign that's like a horde mode, where you are simply not allowed to retreat or have your LL defeated in combat, and if you do, it's the end of the campaign. ARBAAL, ARBAAL, ARBAAL!

[@thepiousskull]

I just want cults to be half as interesting as Changeling's cults and maybe Skulls having more uses as a resource.

[@BlueflameKing1]

Honestly make skulls the cost for advanced buildings not settlements. That way it incentivices more conquest fir bigger settlements made from the skulls of your foes. ALL KHORNE STRUCTURES SHALL BE MADE OF SKULLS!

[@Midala87]

@@BlueflameKing1 What about using skulls as artillery ammunition?

[@skywalker6119]

Tigermen as a Cathay subfaction makes sense. They could build off existing work from the Nanman. I think there could've been plans for such a project with some of the units Legend was told about.

[@lberghaus]

Tigermen as a Cathay subfaction is a way to halfass include Ind if they know they aren’t going to be allowed to do Ind, but might be allowed to do Tigermen.

[@smoqueed44]

Tigermen better not be some redeemed Beastmen garbage.

[@darthplagueis13]

I'd say the Greenskins are the real wildcard here. We already had Golfags model found in the gamefiles, so we knew he was likely going to be added some time, making Ogres a likely DLC faction. And pretty much everyone assumed that Khorne was gonna be the next chaos faction to get updated, after Tzeentch and Nurgle. Greenskins are gonna be interesting because there's not a crazy amount of missing Greenskin characters. I mean, there's Gorbad, but he is an absolute relic. People already found the inclusion of Grom to be a bit of a stretch, and he disappeared less than a hundred years before the reign of Karl Franz. Gorbad was like, 800 years before the reign of Karl Franz, not to mention he took a runefang injury that can't heal and was last seen single-handedly fighting a dwarfen army. Based on that, I'm gonna throw a wild guess and say Gorfang Rotgut. He's contemporary and he features quite a bit in various novels, though not as a protagonist. Plus, both him and Golfag both have interactions with the Greenskin and Dwarfen factions around Black Crag, Eight Peaks and Karak Azul. He's also kind of an interesting character, because he's actually pretty smart for an Orc. I mean, Azhag can do smart things, but he's an idiot with a smart hat. Gorfang is actually smart and also pretty old. Unlike most previous Greenskin lords, he also doesn't really have a major theme going which means they are free to add whatever. Grimgor is the black orc guy, Azhag is the mad spellcaster, Skarsnik has his whole guerilla night goblin shtick, Wurrzag does savage orcs and Grom does trolls and chariots (and basically anything else that he can buff with the cauldron). Gorfang might be the opportunity to add in some things the roster had previously been missing. Assuming they keep the previous approach of 5 new units, 1 new generic lord, 1 new generic hero, 1 LH, 1 LL that they had in the previous DLC, I imagine we could get something like this: Gorfang Greenskin LH - My guess would be Gitilla da Hunta since he's not attached to any single tribe or boss and you can fit him anywhere. The other option would be Borgut Facebeater, but he really belongs to Grimgor thematically, so I think they'll maybe save him for an FLC release some day. Orc Great Shaman (lord option) Probably another big boss variant? Regular Orc or Savage Orc, possibly. (hero option). Orc Boyz (Spears) Black Orcs (shields) Savage Orcs (Big Stabba) Goblin Spear-Chucka Colossal Squig (centerpiece) Not gonna speculate too much on RoR, but I imagine we're gonna see one with magic or flaming attacks, since that's the two things Greenskins are still missing. I'm also still holding out for Big Lugg as a sort of Savage Orc styled Giant.

[@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926]

CA is playing fast and lose when it comes to character deaths in the lore so Gorbad Ironclaw could be the next Greenskin Legendary Lord. I'd also like to point out that Gorfang Rotgut has technically been in the game since day 1 as a generic Orc Warboss and if CA were to make him into an LL it had better be in a Lord pack with Kazador Dragonslayer because those two have a history that shouldn't be ignored, then again CA have a history of screwing the Dwarfs out of potential Lord packs. You also forgot about Morglum Necksnapper

[@darthplagueis13]

@@chaptermastermarneuscalgar6926 I don't know if Morglum Necksnapper is likely, we already have an iconic Black Orc in Grimgor Ironhide and Gorfang is a lot more interesting and noteworthy. I know Gorfang is technically Kazador's rival, but I'm not sure if they're ever gonna do more dwarfs because at this point, the only units they're still missing are pretty obscure. I reckon we're gonna get Bugman as FLC at some point and that'll be about it. As for CA playing fast and loose: I don't know if they're gonna be *that* fast and loose. Grom was playing fast and loose and Gorbad has been gone for like ten times longer than him.

[@undertakernumberone1]

@@darthplagueis13 Honestly, Gorfang would be more interesting than Gorbad. Gorbad is "Grimgor, but smart. On a pig." (His weapon is actually stronger htan Gitsnik in TT) Gorfang being the Squatter King could actually have something approaching trade agreements diplomatically, representing him exorting caravans and such. His fight with Queek also is hilarious! It's gonna be Gorbad though, becaus ehe isthe orc version of Grom. The epitome of orciness that did one thing and then disappeared. Just that Gorbad disappeared over a thousand years before the game and never did anything of note ever again. Such a great orc...

[@OriginalRAB]

Time frames are irrelevant for this particular iteration of warhammer and rightly so. A vast majority of the players couldn't give a shit about how one character shouldn't be in the same time as another when the priority is getting the battleroyale of as many characters as possible.

[@zackhartley4718]

Good I like it! Hope a Slannesh, Dark Elf’s and Vamp Counts would be next!!

[@HomerJSimpson999]

why dark elves? they aren't missing any units just 2 heroes. we won't get a dark elf DLC for a very long time

[@zackhartley4718]

@@HomerJSimpson999 cuz I like ‘em lol, might be thematic with Slannesh too.

[@morathi9956]

HE and DE could be great

[@ZincMaster]

@@HomerJSimpson999 The Dark Elves need either a rework or the rework they got in TWW3 reversed

[@R3GARnator]

Kinky Pack

[@mrlentelka3111]

Please CA, listen to Sotek about the Vampire counts. Its a great idea and the faction really needs it.

[@mk_gamíng0609]

I do not think its a good idea Especially since they said no more really large DLCS and LETS be honest that idea would have to be large Lets just take the Lahmians as a example You would need a new Race mechanic as the BL mechanic makes no sense for them To get neffies feeling down there is a lot of work to be done and sadly it would be hard to make it feel unique as what she is about, there is already factions that do it Then there is the fact that lore wise Lahmians would not be able to field the more monstrous units due to the hatred for the Strigoi and there is not enough unique lahmans stuff to replace the loss - So either they get a gutted roster , Get new made up units or just go against the lore and allow them to field those units A lot of this will also apply to the other bloodlines , They would pretty much all need not only faction mechanics but unique race mechanics There is no real defining thing between the bloodlines other than a shared origin

[@draconomega]

​@@mk_gamíng0609We do have basically confirmed that Nagash and a big end times dlc will be coming. And Nagash will probably be a every undead DLC, as it just makes sense

[@samot6369]

@@mk_gamíng0609 I mean, Kemmler is allowed to use vampiric units and lords/heros when in lore is stated that he dislike them and don't works with them; both him and Ghorst also use the blood kiss mechanic when neither is a vampire and doesn't make sense for them to have it.

[@mk_gamíng0609]

@@draconomega We had it confirmed but then everything went down So now even that is up in the air

[@mk_gamíng0609]

@@samot6369 True but I think when it comes to the main bloodlines that wont cut it.

[@rabblerouserorc8649]

Welp. Looks like I have to eat my beard now.

[@biofoot7874]

Good call holding off on discussing the leaks before there was more info

[@sleepngnight]

My dream would be a map expansion north of cathay, I feel like this could be a good dlc for that. Although it is just a dream, realistically I don't think it will happen for this DLC.

[@09calz]

Maybe a bit 4d chess move but maybe CA did leak fake info to legend to gauge community reaction to a DLC they were considering before committing resources. Anywho happy with this announced DLC

[@Draxynnic]

Legend did say that part of his intent was for CA to be able to see the community reaction - in fact, he intimated pretty strongly that was the intent of the leakers. So it's really just a question of whether the leakers were acting on their own initiative or not.

[@allhallows2590]

The main things I want Skulltaker Golg Maneater and a rework to Ogre Big Names so that theyre actually worth using

[@infestissumam5422]

Same here, I really want Skulltaker.

[@schmiddi5768]

As someone who works in AAA game dev I can say with pretty close to absolute certainty that the leaks were bullshit. Any big update to a game is in the works for months before the public ever sees it, because these things take a long time to come together: if CA had panicked and swapped to three entirely different races for the DLC (thus having to start the update from scratch) based on the response to something that came out less than two weeks ago then we probably wouldn't be getting this pack till 2025, and it's confirmed to be coming this year. It's not like they finish ToD and then start work on the next thing after it's out; by the time a game expansion releases, the next thing has already been in the works for a long time and in all likelihood whatever is planned to come after that is in early preproduction already too. That's just the timeframe game dev happens on. Now the pivot from saying they were gonna do smaller DLCs after ToD to seemingly planning on the next expansion being of the same scale is genuinely curious, and I would love to know what the timeline of those decisions were behind the scenes. If I had to lay out my theory they probably had a couple of plans for the future based on whether ToD was a huge success, a huge failure, or anywhere in between, and had kind of worked with flexibility in mind; like maybe if ToD underperformed they'd put one of the three races for the next pack on the backburner for a future expansion and focus on the remaining two. If that's how things went down then it seems like ToD must have really knocked it out of the park because we're clearly getting another big expansion! Since I'm not at CA I'm obviously speculating, but I have been present on the other end of situations like this and it feels like the most plausible course of events to me. What I can say with confidence is that all the leaks Legend dropped must've been totally made up, I think someone just trolled him very successfully tbh.

[@Draxynnic]

You're not wrong, but I think you're also missing some context: Word was that there was a LOT of groundwork that had already been done but which had been aborted after the Hyenas and SoC debacles. This might not be starting from scratch, but pivoting back to something that had been started and then abandoned.

[@Lexen_Rapier]

You're so right. Vampire Counts DLC like the chaos warriors one would be so good. I also wanted that as soon as I saw the chaos one.

[@matthewy2j]

I fundamentally don't understand why raiding as the Ogres doesn't produce meat, and also how Ogres who are known for raiding barely have incentive to do so.

[@jiado6893]

I love Snagla Grobspit because I think he’s the only Greenskin (in either setting) who is driven by grief, and actually has sympathetic motivations. The Empire moved into his tribe’s forest, and slaughtered every goblin and huge spider to the last. I’m not sure how well Snagla would work as headlining the DLC. But he could definitely be a free Lord!

[@Spenglenoodle]

audio sounds like an early q&a series video, I appreciate that

[@Vintagegaston]

The only thing I would want for Khorne would be another way to spend skulls. Maybe rush construction on buildings or something

[@piotr7805]

If they are going to make dlc for a dlc race (ogres), I would be really really happy if they also gave Norsca some love. Our beloved apes have been living in shadow smashing rocks for far too long.

[@ServantoftheGreatHornedRat]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

[@Jaann1919]

Nah

[@ServantoftheGreatHornedRat]

@@Jaann1919Oh it’s happening! No amount of cowardly undead sorcery shall save you from the hounds of Khorne now!

[@Jaann1919]

​By Nagash, Settra, Mannfred and all other powers of the world we Will have our Day@@ServantoftheGreatHornedRat

[@williamking331]

FOR THE WAAAAAAGH!!!!!

[@HuntsmanWTF]

Calm down, mate. Its a videogame

[@xvim7106]

As someone who avoided the leaks as much as I could, I am shocked that there was a "only Cathay DLCs" one in there. I had been told of the "no Khorne DLC" leak, but had doubts figuring they want at least 2 LL of each chaos god to help with the corruption spread for Manifestations. I could see that being the reason Slannesh was pushed back. Slannesh has 3 extra sources compared to other gods from Morathi, Malus, and Sigvald.

[@Mythralblade04]

I think this was kinda always in the cards - like you said, Khorne and Orks don't need Tons Of Work, so the man-hours in this DLC would be less. Also, I'm thinking that they're doing this (and possibly also the Slaanesh one after this) because they were already working on them when they made the decision to pivot to smaller DLCs, so the NEWER ones (that weren't started when they made that decision) will be the smaller ones they were referencing. I wouldn't be surprised if Slaanesh came out after this with another 3-way, then single- or dual-race DLCs from there. On the leak front, I do think it was to find a leaker - they probably had different placeholder units for the "parts of the DLC the person isn't working on" and waited to see what got revealed. On top of that, doing an official announcement like so serves to discredit any future leakers that try from here out, so they both solve their existing leak and help things moving forward. An unfortunate part in the modern social media culture is that some people don't recognize the difference between "Marketing leaks" and "Actual leaks" - Marketing leaks being those "leaks" that the company is fully aware of and controlling for hype like a free ad campaign. Actual leaks are very rare and are hunted down as soon as they're noticed, which often costs people their jobs - because the person is subverting the entire marketing department and probably breaking an NDA in the process.

[@lovebergstrom5786]

Good on you, Loremaster! You keep that level-headed and realistic approach, it's certainly a breath of fresh air these days. Thanks for everything you do, and thanks for keeping up Lorebeards and the additional total war-streams for those juicy achievements when your main videos ebb for a while. No pressure, just love me some good ol' Sotek videos, lore-dumps, scripted, speculation or otherwise; whatever you do, I cannot simply get enough! You simply rock! (or as Andy Law probably would phrase it 'exceedingly rock')

[@saltedllama2759]

I am sure Ogres will receive love, similar to how the Dwarfs and Empire did. Even though it was "Nurgle's DLC," those two factions were thoroughly reworked.

[@besucherritze8432]

Very happy that the leaks were wrong

[@spanner5940]

Honestly I'm glad the leaks were wrong. A lot of factions need a touch up before ca moves on and legends picture was showing them abandoning TWW in a couple years. This coming dlc looks great and I'm looking forward to it. In terms of wrapping things up I think the following races still need a touch up or at least a custodianship before they move on: vamps, tomb kings, brettonia, tzeentch, slaanesh, norsca, vampirates, and a small touchup for tzeentch, lizards and high elves are in order. After that go for it give us end times and they can move on

[@anthroposmetron4475]

Legend said that his sources indicated the Cathay subfaction DLC was effectively complete. There is absolutely no way that CA part scrapped a near-complete DLC to embark on Greenskin and Khorne DLC content from scratch, which they're going to get out by the end of the year. I'm a big fan of Legend but his source on this was very clearly just wrong.

[@TheRevan1337]

Possibly some of his other sources were also getting their info from that person

[@2enrol]

CA could easily be putting the mostly-finished Cathay material on the back burner after the community's negative reaction. They can easily put it into future DLC's successfully and turn that work into profit instead of disaster. I would say the TIMING of the DLC will reveal if Legend's source was wrong. If this DLC is set to release this summer, then they probably were working on it all along. If its in the fall/winter, I'd suspect Legend's source was right, but CA has moved all its effort into other races after community feedback, and therefore needs all the extra time to develop from almost square one.

[@ludwig-alice]

they dont have to scrap the entire dlc they made if its not coming out as the next dlc. They could still add its content to another dlc that comes out later

[@Draxynnic]

@@2enrol Might not even be going from square one. Legend indicated some time back that there was work done on what had been in the original plans that had been "indefinitely postponed" (my term, not his, for something that hasn't been officially cancelled but which you probably wouldn't want to bet on it happening) after Hyenas and SoC. This might be essentially a case of reviving work that had previously been set aside.

[@mk_gamíng0609]

@@2enrol Not how game dev works dude

[@ismeal231]

I'm betting we get the hobgoblin khanate as a greenskin subfaction. The greenskins already got their rework, and the hobgoblin khanate could be a good way to kill 2 birds with one stone, and what I mean by that is we could see multiple unit variants added to the roster in a Champions style progression system, and also see multiple hero lord variants for the different kinds of Greenskins. We could also get a few hobgoblin units to throw into the mix, as well as the spearchukkah and collossal squig.

[@loganphillips2166]

They may finish the chaos god "block" dlcs, after that minimize to smaller dlcs to do touch ups on the existing races. I honestly expected Greenskins to be one of the smaller touch-up packs.

[@rossjackson8259]

They need to fully redesign Greasus and to update improve Skraggs model which is a bit shoddy. Other mechanics need reworks like the contracts have to be totally changed made into quest like battles or given diplomatic immunity or something. But the base lords are a Huge problem. Greasus needs a new model. One of the most popular mods makes him a bigger Tyrant. That’s shows how much they failed

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

Next one needs to be Slaanesh, Vampire Counts, Norsca.

[@guardian_of_the_rune]

Norseca, Vampire Coast and some other Naval power would be a great theme.

[@dicorockhimself]

​. Pirate vampires lol

[@Draxynnic]

Not saying that VCounts and Norsca don't need a rework, but elves are probably a more natural choice to pair with Slaanesh, and High Elves have had a big "these units reserved for future DLC" sticker on their roster since their last DLC in addition to some leaks pointing towards what their goal might be. Said goal is out in the southern oceans, though, so the Vampire Coast could make for a great secondary antagonist in there.

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

@@Draxynnic I don't care who is the more natural choice, I care about who are borderline unplayable at this point. And that's Norsca. They are the only faction now that still feels like you're starting up TWW1 if you try to play them. Them and Bretonnia.

[@Draxynnic]

@@Arbaaltheundefeated Bretonnia and Norsca have actually had updates to their campaign mechanics more recently than Lizardmen (Lizardmen somehow managed to get all that DLC while still running on 2017 mechanics). And if you're arguing based on "borderline unplayability", from what I've heard that excludes VCounts - from what I've heard, they're doing okay in terms of campaign mechanics, they really just need representation from bloodlines that aren't von Carstein. Now, they could all do with an update, but CA does seem to care about narrative, and there have already been leaks about HE content. Slaanesh v HEs is a natural rivalry, and then throw in whoever's most fitting as a spoiler there. Norsca could work in theory, but as I said, the spoiler points towards the southern oceans, and with Wulfrik already in the game, it's not clear there'd be any Norscan lords operating that far south.

[@nicklindberg90]

0:54 Witch! Witch! He's a witch!

[@loremasterofsotek]

I'M A PROPHET! Or maybe an Oracle...

[@acendantoverlord5737]

@@loremasterofsotekYour a wizard Harr- huh I mean Sotek!

[@ZincMaster]

But does he weigh the same as a duck

[@mageem06]

​@ZincMaster i see what you did there.

[@ineednochannelyoutube2651]

@@loremasterofsotek Lisan Al-Gaib!

[@unifieddynasty]

The leaked Cathay DLCs may have been funded from the marketing budget. They may still happen, just later.

[@generalvibes5853]

I'm into it

[@keagancollins3243]

My first thought when I saw the announcement was “Wow Sotek predicted it exactly again”.

[@Supercohboy]

I mean this is a good development overall, fingers crossed that the other factions in need of work will get it in the future, Cathay and Kislev included!

[@WrathOfImperium]

Greenskins have a gazilion lords, why them... like a rework to make them more interesting will be welcome, but they dont really need another lord

[@madsboandersen5316]

I am surprised they didn't go for Ind expansion of the map and introducing Arbaal the Undefeated and that snake lady from Slaanesh, since they had a competition during the End Times to see who could wreck Ind the most. Khorne vs Slaanesh, it's a classic!

[@generalvibes5853]

Id love a big Cathay dlc with multiple sub factions

[@calebdod]

I agree. Other than the Cathay ogres I was hype for the leak. Oh well, this sounds cool too and maybe we can still get those in the future.

[@generalvibes5853]

@@calebdod my hope for Cathay ogres if it happened was a more regimented and sophisticated sect of ogre. like the lord could have been wearing magistrate robes and stuff

[@robertwadsworth3411]

I was hoping for vampires but if we go Neferata she would fit in the Slaanesh dlc

[@HomerJSimpson999]

my prediction ;)

[@Neockoen]

I think we are getting vampires as the last big DLC and it will feature Neferata and Nagash

[@stratedmusic5139]

I think it's an incredibly idiotic thing to think that CA saw the community reaction to the "leaks" and pivoted their whole fucking plans because of it in less than a month! It's not realistic for a company of this size to just flip everything on a dime without consequences. Look at what the devs said about the ToD trailer that ruffled feathers because some information was miscommunicated and we saw Ironsides with repeaters even though that is not what they were going to deliver. We hold a lot of power, sure, but even after the backlash of SoC they had to delay ToD significantly just to fix it up

[@resileaf9501]

Legend made his leaks video ten days ago. It is literally impossible for CA to change what DLC they're making and have it be presentable for advertisement two weeks from now.

[@stryke-jn3kv]

It's also genuinely cope of ludicrous degree from Legend fanboys. Your messiah was a very naughty boy, and you're just going to deal with that.

[@Peas_keaper]

Honestly they are probably working on multiple dlcs at a time. i would not be surprised if the leaks were true at a point. but mabee they dalayed them and are pushing this one forward.

[@marcpaulus6291]

@@stryke-jn3kv Tonns of ludicrous cope from Legend haters, prettending they knew better and never beliefed it from the start. He simply put out what people he blieved are trustworthy told him. he said multiple times to take all that with a big pinch of salt. Now shitting on him and prettending he sold al that as ultimate truth is a pretty bold and shitty move.

[@Serviner]

@@stryke-jn3kv He said in his video multiple times that they might not be true and to take it with a grain of salt. Hate him if you want, but at least be truthful about it.

[@BigSmugRat]

I wonder if they pivoted because Orcs and Khorne aren't as in so much need of reworks. Ogres are, sure, but they won't have to devote the resources to these massive reworks of Orcs and Khorne factions as they did for Dwarfs, Empire and Nurgle. I think what they mean is we'll still get 3 race packs, which is good, imo, just that we shouldn't expect to see stuff like the Empire getting unique mechanics for basically all its characters alongside some pretty substantial reworks of Dwarfs and Nurgle.

[@mk_gamíng0609]

They said the next DLC was already in the works soon after ToD reveal So before Legend got his leaks There was no Pivot this was always the plan Also all CA said was DLCS would be smaller, not that the three way DLCS would stop

[@Lord0x]

​@@mk_gamíng0609probably because GS doesnt really need a big rework.

[@silvisblackthorn4741]

I like this DLC idea more than the one legend talked about. I really just wanted Ogres, Khorne and Greenskin are just really, really good icing on the cake. Like buttercream frosting. Though I’m afraid it’ll be Golfag Maneater, which is fine, but I just really want Ghark Ironskin more. Make him start with diplomatic relations buffs for Chaos Dwarfs and give him unique fully armored Iron Guts maybe and armored Rhinoxes

[@dariusrose9909]

Gorbad, Uzhul (Or Arbaal) and Ghark Ironskin hopefully. With Golgfag as the flc.

[@CommanderBohn]

Ghark is also a pretty good choice, but dunno. Golgfag's in-game model was leaked.

[@DRKTROOPER15]

Uzhul will probably be FLC lord based on ToD

[@HomerJSimpson999]

I think Gorbad will be a FLC because we still only have 1 gobbo lord and forest gobbbos are missing entirely. I really doubt it will be an orc DLC since missing units are only gobbos besides stabbas. just black orc variants would be dumb

[@thepiousskull]

Arbaal. Skulltaker should be FLC a la Epidemius.

[@HomerJSimpson999]

@@thepiousskull isn't Arbaal a mortal? in that case it is very doubtfull

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

my guess is that the throne of Decay thing worked out with splitting them up and are gonna keep doing that so they don't need to make them smaller just split them. also seems stuff his happening with Sega they are letting Relic entertainment go and a fair few layoffs so stuff is probably somewhat chaotic honestly.

[@ShadowBoss99]

What could the orks possibly still have to add? Ps I hope they nerf grimgor kinda tired of his super empires

[@EmonTyrgar]

Thanks for giving some insight on what's missing or what could need work. I think maybe they're choosing that 3-way setup with 2 factions that don't need that much of an in-depth workover like the last ones, because then they can be a) faster with it and/or b) focus on upcomming Dog of War (mechanics?) etc. Like, putting up a rhythm of "not so much work"/"heavy work"

[@SusaVile]

The title: "The Green, the Mean, and the Not-so-lean"

[@invictakaizeros7821]

It would be interesting to have something similar to the dwarf rune magic for Khorne, like a Wardrummer Hero so at least Khorne has a warshrine mount too

[@ho8ojoe8]

I really hope we get slaughterpriests, I can't see what else the lords or heroes could be

[@ruddendave]

I feel they have to have announced this in response to the leaks - I think this could still be smaller than ToD but still really really good.

[@euychua]

I hope that if they do a big ogre rework they’ll give Greasus with his proper carpet of gnoblars

[@donpizzaplays8529]

Fleshing out the vampiric bloodlines through a DLC focusing solely on them would make the vampire counts SOOOO much more in depth and cool.

[@Chonicle2]

I feel like they had plans to steer away from thrones of decay level of dlc, but a higher up saw the success and was like no keep it up. i'm probably wrong but i like to think that

[@2enrol]

A key element they can add into Khorne is CONFEDERATIONS. Allow for confederations between Scarbrand, Kholek, Valkia, Belakor and Archeon (and maybe even the Demon prince to make him relevant again). Let this be the testing ground for working out Chaos confederations. I think the release date of this DLC will show if the leaks were valid. If this DLC is set to release this summer, then the leaks were false and they were working on Khorne/Greenskins the entire time. If this DLC is set in the fall/winter, then that is evidence that they HAVE been working on Cathay, but now need more time to switch to something else due to community backlash. Thanks for such a great video!

[@kapitankapital6580]

I think the main thing I want for Khorne is more opportunities to develop cults. Maybe giving a chance to spread in regions where a major battle takes place? Shouldn't be hard to do since they already track that for raise undead/skull piles

[@chiddy786]

Whole heartedly agree with everyone you said. Especially in regato what the ogres need help with and the bloodlines DLC for Vampires

[@saltmonolith9817]

I feel like they looked at the sales for Thrones of Decay, the way they divided up the Lords individually, and saw that it probably sold better than expected. With the next DLC being another 3 faction drop, I suspect that the sale model will probably look the same as Thrones did and if that's the case, it's pretty smart on CA's part.

[@henseltbrumbleburg3752]

I really want to see them expand on the campaign map in ways that make it more replayable and dynamic, like with the nemesis crown. Also would LOVE them to add more options for custom campaigns. Like only picking a section of the map and choosing what factions will go where. Would love more options like that. But excited for the next DLC, sounds like a good time.

[@HawkknightXC88]

More Khorne and Ogre Champion Heroes is a great start for many things. Now we just need poor norsca to finally have champions of their own again.

[@benjones3466]

Aside from Ogres getting some much needed love I'm most looking forward to Greenskins getting some new units & a new lord. They used to be one of my favourite factions but their roster has felt a little stale for a while. Ogres getting improved might hopefully make things more interesting for Grimgors' campaign too. They're a little too easy to stomp. Not like how Grimgor used to have his epic showdowns with Thorgrim.

[@damienreilly4347]

I think when creative assembly said they were going to reduce the size of the DLC, I think they just meant less content but not necessarily less factions. So we are probably looking at a shadows of change type amount of stuff but cheaper and with more reworks

[@brettman-e9r]

I'm wondering if they saw Thrones of Decay's success and thought that maybe they should do a bigger DLC. Either that or this new DLC will be less content than Thrones of Decay, but also lower price to go with less content.

[@Helmutlozzi]

Really hoping for a CoC type DLC for Vampire Counts as well!! They sorely need some love!!

[@saint8257]

All 3 of these factions need help so makes sense. Also regarding what CA said about not making same scale DLC anymore, I think they meant not releasing them all in 1 single pack at $24.99 or whatever Shadow of Change originally was but breaking it into 3 parts $7.99 so it appears cheaper and people can pick whatever they want to purchase.

[@matthewlowry1084]

I think that VC and Daniel are the factions that could use the most work right now.

[@Arbaaltheundefeated]

So even you forget about Norsca 😢

[@Julian-cn1ey]

Daniel gets better with every monogod DLC. He really needs access to another Undivided lord, because of monogod only buffing their own alignment's units, which means you only get 1 undivided army in the undivided faction, but once the full round of god DLC is out, that will be his only major issue, IMO. Danny himself is already a disgusting 1 man Doomstack.

[@benfisher961]

My concern for a daniel rework is that reworks usually come with new LL and i dont know of any other undivided Daemon charachers that are not in the game already

[@Shar482]

Could throw an originally Cathayan Daemon Princess to balance Daniel out

[@shmekelfreckles8157]

@@Julian-cn1eyDaniel needs a complete rework. Reworked skills, reworked dress-up game, actual tech tree. At bare minimum.

[@JanneBernards]

There is no way CA did a complete pivot, or even a mostly pivot. That's just not how production pipelines work. According to the leaks there was no Khorne and no Greenskins and now they are the main chunk of the DLC 2 weeks later. Yea, nah. Legend just has beef with CA and likes to stir shit for his own amusement. That or he's a gullible idiot. Either way it's not great.

[@aidancampbell5644]

Love the Thumbnail. You called it. This DLC always made the most sense.

[@inertjohnjunk]

On the Ogre reworks being hoped for; I HEARTILY recommend playing with the "the great Ogre-haul" mod. It pretty much addresses and "fixes" all the complaints I've ever heard about the Ogre Kingdoms as a faction.

[@TulkasTrepidatious]

I think the “leaks” were a Tyrion Lannister style plot at CA to out the leakers haha! Oh Loremaster says he thinks that too at 5:45. I had typed it as soon as I started the video.

[@parttimehero8640]

Man a Warriors of Chaos like DLC for Vampires and the Empire would be nice. I really hope we'll see legendary heroes as DLC like a bundle of 3-6 that add LH to factions that wont see DLC any time soon if ever

[@spinekingjrgensen5779]

Please god give me a tomb king DLC. Khemric titans- need I say more?

[@nightrunnerks]

Im not entirely convinced that the leaks were wrong. Its entirely possible they intentionally leaked false information to see if people would actually want more Cathay content. Hell a ton of the loading screen quotes reference the monkey king, tigermen etc. Since everyone flipped its possible the Cathay content is coming after.

[@joshuacoleman8814]

I can understand having some reservations about speaking on leaks BUT it can be nice to speak on them as it gives the developers a good idea how the dlc will be reviewed

[@draugr121]

I remembered the prediction and seeing the thumbnail made me happy not only for you but for myself. Kinda like ogres even if they messed up with them and i love greenskins!

[@aRadianceRed]

First, thumbnail goes hard. Second, interesting to see them continue the 3 race DLC package! I sure hope they do release smaller DLCs as well, maybe 1 lord w/ units pack or something similar.

[@jacobtrost5048]

Yeah, I like this a LOT more than a potential Ogres-vs-Cathay DLC. We just got Cathay in Shadows of Change, and we already have a somewhat Ogre-related Cathay faction with the Iron Dragon. Retreading that same ground so soon would be boring, even if it was the long-anticipated Monkey King. Hopefully this 3-race DLC (and a potential Slaanesh DLC in the future) will be up to the standard of Thrones of Decay.

[@Playaplaya18]

Sotek shooting 3's with these predictions, the metaphorical ball was just in the air so long I forgot you shot it lol. I'm happier with this than the "leaks" we had.

[@emmahagens]

that thumbnail is chadmaster of Sotek. man just drops himself looking amazing on a reaction video to a small piece of news

[@Ron1404NL]

Really hope Khorne gets the Nurgle treatment with a new tech tree and improved skill trees

[@keyskdog]

I really hope Khorne gets the FLC lord as well, feel like its super easy to implement and its my favorite race to play lol

[@marcinwojcik5476]

Khorne minotaur lord and hero could work. It would also be fairly unique because no other god has a mortal monstrous lord and hero.

[@Marizius]

I don't think it will be a orc character for the greenskins. The missing units are mostly giant squigs like the chainsquig and the squig gobba. And themaicly would a goblinkhan fit the most

[@Insideoutcest]

khorne is one of the 5 least played factions for me if i had to guess. the blood mechanic they have is not fun. i think if they change how khorne gains or maybe maintains fury would be cool? maybe i can cast a rite to sustain it at level 2, or level 1? because there are lulls in a khorne campaign that break fury.

[@BlurredVision18]

I was under the impression the leaks were for after the Khorne and Slanesh DLC we already knew were coming...

[@Khalkara]

I read the title as "Khorne greenskins and khorne ogres" I was confused, surprised and excited. Then I realized there were comma's between the words.

[@fallenswan1670]

My prediction (guess) for Slaanesh DLC is Berton and Woodelves. And it is mosly based on idea, that they are focusing to add LL for factions which have much less playable LLs: and that mainly means factions from first and third game. There is 6 skavens, dark elves and highelves. So it is unlikely they are priority. I also don't think other factions from second game is high priority. I also could say, that there is opportunity after Khorne and Slaanesh DLC to continue similar way with Beastmen and Deamons of Chaos, if they want... Both of them would need some work (and one of them much more than just some). Maybe then Norsca and Vampires will come?

[@danfish300]

I would really like them to adjust Greenskin raiders to spawn a lot around the place, be a general pain in the butt, and you as a player can recruit them. Kinda like Ogre camps but as a Greenskin collecting tribes.

[@HH-hd7nd]

In regards to future DLC packs - I'd very much prefer to see race packs with new races: Hobgoblin Khanate, Kingdoms of Ind, Naga of Kuresh, Araby, Nippon. If any of that will ever happen - well that's another question. If any of them is added it's probably Ind (and hopefully the Khanate).

[@lukaskoch2508]

I want i all of them, but i would enjoy Khuresh the most (snakes are amazing & and kinda unique in the setting)

[@resileaf9501]

Those all depend on Games Workshop.

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@resileaf9501 Yeah I know.

[@M0DIDDLY]

I do like the CoC style dlcs, I'm holding hope for Counts to get a bloodlines one, and Norsca to get a tribes one (Norsca especially considering we're looking at 8+ years before they get anything, and that looong wait should be made worth it)

[@Nolan65775]

Here's what I can see going into this DLC. Ogres LL - Golgfag Maneater LH - Bragg the Gutsman GL - Maneater Captains GH - Ogre Bruisers Units - Yhetees, Thundertusks (Feral and Mounted varients), Gnoblar Fighters Khorne LL - U'Zhul the Skulltaker LH - Scyla Anfingrimm (Karanuk is a free LH) GL - ??? GH - ??? Units - Khornegors, ???

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

This was not a grouping I thought would happen. I was expecting Khorne v Vampire Counts. I’d argue this shift was entirely due to Thrones or Decay’s success.

[@awsomeman350]

no? they have this stuff planned out ages ahead

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

@@awsomeman350 that clearly isn’t the case given how this dlc has nothing to do with slaanesh and we were literally told we weren’t getting triple faction dlcs anymore.

[@awsomeman350]

@@GlamdringandOrcrist idk when they said that. we had it planned for 4 dlc, each with a monopod

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

@@awsomeman350 it was stated during if I recall when CA was showing off the additions to Shadows. If not it was during the ramp up of Thrones release. And while the four god plan is true, Khorne was the fourth of the group. The third faction on the last roadmap we got was slaanesh.

[@cyphrox8555]

Gotta say I love the fighty vibe of this DLC though!

[@loganlee1796]

Since we know from the trailer that khornes new lord is karanak, perhaps he'll be a horde-esqe playstyle that will focus on hunting mage factions or targets deemed cowards?

[@RatchildUK]

Khorne, Ogres and Greenskins Slaanesh, Vampire Counts and Norsca Nagash (Legion of the Dead) as its own unique faction and units, main mechanic is confederating the undead mortarchs (including Tomb King and Vampire Coast rework) This is what I expect/want before they move on to another game. I think Lizardmen need a rework too but unless it's going to be a free patch then I don't see it happening.