Approach the Brass Citadel! Khorne's Fortress Explored on Lorebeards w/ Andy & Sotek

[@generaldreagonlps6889]

I liked one of the chapters in Brutal Kunnin. It's from the perspective of a daemon engine who just rages about how much he hates orks because they just ignore chaos. None of the gods have anything to offer to an ork which just infuriates the daemon engine.

[@x0lopossum]

13:30 Khorne used to be the tech military chaos faction with projectiles and melee but now it's the berserking melee chaos faction. 23:30 how Nkari, a daemon from another form of reality, views itself in the material realm. 48:00 Khorne's fortress. 49:00 Khorne is NOT stupid. He is not a ravenous berserker, he is a calculating general that gets angry sometimes when his plans dont go his way. 57:50 Trained dogs are a paet of Khorne's ways not wild ravenous dogs abd other animals! TRAINED NOT WILD. They are tools to Khorne. 1:08:00 Khorne is not anti kagoc, he is anti spells. 1:15:00 what people don't understand about the Chaos God, they are seductive... They can seem preferable under certain situations. 1:18:00 ALSO, Khorme and the other Chais gods dint care about rheir positive aspects? They only care about using thise aspects to attract morally good/positive people to twist them into horrific beings that are puppets and extensions of their will? Chais gods are kind of like illicitdrugs?? 1:44:00 kairos pocket dimension in temple city. And ither stories 1:50:40 Why Greenskins dont wirship khorne. Khorne followers are dogs, greenskins are wolves. Greenskins are wild and fight for instinct and fun, khornites fight because they aree told to. Khornites are serious about fighting, greenskins are not. 2:46:40 the skull of the first 2:43:00 The fields of Khorne, bizarre method of farming in the realm of Khorne. 2:51:20 The Realm of Khorne IS Khorne, the outskirts is where the other less khorny entities lie 3:13:00 Khorne is a God traumatized by war and is afraid of loosing again 🤔

[@stefvanroey8191]

You dropped this 👑

[@JJoJam]

Gotta protect this one at all costs.

[@jackruby6696]

LOVE FOR THE LAUGH GOD LIVE FOR THE #blessed THRONE

[@chrispainter2703]

Anyone heard any update with Sotek and his queek video? Have not heard anything for a while.

[@Omnicide101]

"Khorne has PTSD because he got killed in the future" that's NUCLEAR I fucking love it

[@gtmafiaa]

that don't make sense i need more on that tbh why would he have ptsd from the future and not the past?, they said alot of things at the end but didn't really explain any of it? he was leashed and and escaped but also killed? idk man i think they were just throwing around ideas

[@Omnicide101]

@gtmafiaa The key thing to understand is that time doesn't flow linearly in the Realm of Chaos, because that is where basic rules of reality go to die. Past, present and future are meaningless terms once you leave the material plane. In the aether, it all flows together into one - Khorne is angry because he has been killed, and he will be killed because of his anger.

[@gtmafiaa]

@@Omnicide101 that's the thing that contradicts who can kill Khrone is not a being like gods of fantasy that can be killed by nagash and others only thing that can kill khrone is peace, peace between all universes and worlds at the same time mind you, as long as theirs wars killing and the spilling of blood there's khrone like khrone is an emotion anger rage etc what can leash khrone again the only idea coming to my brain is Peace and there's no such entity i just wished they explained those points a bit more.

[@jefrosiers8880]

another fascinating stream, BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD, LORE FOR THE LORE BEARDS!!!

[@CyberUK]

2:17:50 - please make this one of your next streams. That would be really fascinating to hear your takes on that.

[@ferrousoccultus4590]

Mack is the Worst Blood dragon of all time. Dennis is a male lahmian. Dee is neferata's biggest disappointment. Frank is the only Necrarch with a gun. Rickety Crick is Von Carstein.

[@funnylittlewormyguy4926]

Charlie fits as a nasty lil Strigoi in this vampire bloodline dichotomy, but in every other instance he'd obviously be a goblin

[@meatpizza_]

Gold Wizards come back to Total War then Karanak shows up? Coincidence? I think not!

[@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrass]

Super late to this, but if you want a bug that is related to Khorne, that answer is obvious. Army ants. War IS what an ant's life is. It's not "unnatural", but it is thematic.

[@jeremiahsafford1389]

Great idea. How would you translate that to Khornate daemons or mutants?

[@MySuperPowerIsITouchGrass]

@jeremiahsafford1389 theming is hard in general because insects can easily be a Nurgle thing. To help counter that, I would lean more into Khorns industrial aspect, think juggernauts but smaller and with ant qualities. Maybe make them a mob unit like Nurglings or brimstone horrors. Lore wise, they can just be a swarm of demons are constantly moving from one raid to the next.

[@SquirtleSquady]

*BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD*

[@pleasantdemoss3548]

Charlie is the Strigoi Mac is the Blood Dragons Dennis is the Lahmians Dee is the Necharcs Frank is the Von Carstiens

[@benjones3466]

The idea of a vampire skull being physically taken to Khorne's realm and thereby making it impossible to resurrect is interesting. I can imagine a twist on the tale of the hero travelling to the underworld to save their lover: a vampire fighting their way through Khorne's realm to return the skull to the material realm.

[@josephusthefishperson7938]

Khornate-Industrial Complex

[@SpiceCh]

Finishing the podcast, I generally find myself agreeing with Andy's speculation of Khorne's motivations and nature. For a god of war, he seems to loathe getting personally involved and spends most of his time hiding inside of quite possibly the largest fortification in the setting, keeping a literal tight leash on anyone not afflicted by a crippling rage in the service of Khorne. Perhaps it speaks to a level of paranoia and need for control. Perhaps he was collared, or perhaps - I think, equally likely - he was gravely betrayed at one point in the beginning. Perhaps Khorne was once a twin god, and the skull of the first is the other half that betrayed him. Or maybe the skull is that of his first follower, who was then turned to a different god. Regardless, I think it is being kept as a permanent reminder of what happened. Perhaps Khorne isn't scheming and planning on the skull throne. Maybe he is brooding. Maybe he is unable to let go. Perhaps that is why he punished Skarbrand the way he did - he was betrayed again. As for Valkia being a missed opportunity, I fully disagree. If she wasn't a woman, we'd have been talking about how Khorne should have had a female character instead. She is a great character as she currently is, and I don't think making her male would add much new to the setting that we haven't seen before without making their relationship with Khorne homoerotic.

[@ryanjones6384]

This was my second choice! Hope we can revisit the nature of the WAAUGH. That's so conceptually interesting. We hear so much about particular WAAAUGHs, but not about the thing itself.

[@fallenswan1670]

Maybe when Slaanesh DLC is coming, to be part of conversation: it seems that in 40k side, some new texts are hinting, that GW is heading to kill Slaanesh, and probably replace them with Eldar's god of death. How it is in fantasy side? Both AoS and OW?

[@erikbuchsenschu1645]

I honestly like the idea of Love between Khorne and Valkia. It could explain so much about their relationship. First. Khorne doesn't Care from where the blood flows, who lives and who dies, but in the Case of valkia he cares. Second. Khorne could have had turned her into a Demonprince but he didn't. It would probably change something about her, that he doesn't want to get lost. Third. I think the differenz between Valkia an Arbaal is that Arbaal Just represents Khorne at it's best. Valkia in the other side is the most devote follower of Khorne and does everything to honor her god. Fourth. It is not a romantic kind of love between them, just love from a faithful women to her god and the love of a god for the person that maybe understands him the most.

[@brando62852]

I used to think slanesh was always the scariest but damn, getting your soul turned into Karanak’s chew toy for eternity sounds pretty freakin terrible.

[@michaeldr1992]

I am sorry for the noob question. What Andy said which blew Soteks mind at the end about the first skull. Was he saying its possible the first skull was belakors?? Or someone else?? Again im sorry if im totally misunderstanding what was implied.

[@LAWhammer]

Khorne's.

[@univeropa3363]

The idea is that it‘s Khorne‘s skull.

[@michaeldr1992]

Ah thank you. So a time paradox due to chaos fuckery basically.

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

​@@LAWhammer seem tired my lord?

[@juliettedanielson3503]

Sotek, as part of the sleep crew, could you put some chapters in the Loremaster podcast ? It would be greatly appreciated ^^ Doesn't have to be too many, just when the QA section start and the You-and-Andy-talking part start. Would make finding the part I fell asleep to much easier 😅

[@gtmafiaa]

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE THE GOD OF RAGE WATCHES ALL.

[@lordinquisitor2494]

Valkia Stream! Valkia Stream! Her book is one of my all time favorite books of all time and i consume books on a weekly rate!

[@tetrisint]

Excellent loretalk ) thank you

[@ampednormal9045]

I like the theory that the 8 pointed star does represent 4 major and 4 minor chaos gods. Hashut fits really well between Khorne and Tzeench and the Great Horned Rat between Khorne and Nurgle (though this is a less good fit) On the same line, if you assume the great maw the ogres worship is actually a chaos god, it could fit well between Nurgle and Slaanesh, and to throw a bone to the malal fans, put him between tzeentch and slaanesh. Obvs none are perfect fits and have aspects that are closer to the opposite gods but it wouldn't be chaos if it lined up neatly.

[@Kerel94]

Surely the Great Horned Rat fits better in between Nurgle and Tzeentch, with the Skaven being both treacherous and plagueish ruinous.

[@ampednormal9045]

@@Kerel94 nurgle and tzeench are on opposite ends of the star, but skaven are also violently insane which fits khorne

[@MantismanTM]

For SOO many years I assumed EVERY Daemon WAS once a mortal, even the Greater Daemons were mortals that just ascended aka Skarbrand was a Mortal that got corrupted and ascended in ranks, even the Chaos Gods themselves were once mortals whom just ascended like Sigmar and Nagash.

[@gtmafiaa]

No lol it can't be that the chaos gods are emotions not beings they aren't entities they're a thing that just exist because war blood killing exist that's how they can be universe spanning 40k fantasy aos and where ever the old ones comes from and the many other worlds they've conquered.

[@ampednormal9045]

If you take 40k lore into account daemons can also be born from specific events. Look up the ragged knight from Talon of Horus or Samus for examples (spoiler warning ⚠️ don't look up Samus's origin unless you want Heresy spoilers)

[@PoorManatee6197]

Plaguebearers are the only ones who were mortal I think, and only some of them.

[@skepsisrollins1711]

@@PoorManatee6197 Yeah that's what makes nurgle interesting. Most gods are breaking off pieces of themselves for their daemons but nurgle can just fleece away souls and turn them into plaguebearers on a whim.

[@lachlanbold8319]

I always thought Valkia being Khorne’s consort was because Valkia drew out what Khorne was BEFORE he became a Chaos God. She brought out the honorable side of Khorne that he wishes, at his core, he could be again.

[@therasslintheatre2960]

Oh lord, what if the purpose of the Great Game is tied to the Screaming Child from the Malus Darkblade comic ? the one from Warhammer Monthly. The 4 greater daemons are either his retainers or his jailers, and he's destined to either make the 4 his bitches or reassemble the Unnamable Beast described in the 1st Realm of Chaos books

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

I think the answer to "why does Khorne want to destroy the mortal realms" is poetically simple, As Andy states in the Lawhammer series, the mortal realms are anathema to the aether, and thus are the ultimate enemy. Khorne is the god of battle, the god of war, the god of blood, Khorne wants to destroy the Mortal Realms because it's the great enemy to him, and he follows the rules of the mortal realms because he's better, and you prove you're better by beating people at their own game. Khorne is better, and so Khorne must win, and he will win proving that he's better.

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

Similarly, While he's the Blood god, we also talk about him being the general, the strategist, etc. He appears to be the god of victory, The God of the Horrors of War more aptly. I wonder if the Skull of the First is either the skull of an old one, or the skull of a great dragon ogre, which was made sacrifice for Khorne's agreement in the deal with the Chaos gods. That being said, the Idea that the Skull of the first is the skull of Khorne is interesting, Though if it's called the Skull of the First, presumably a name it attained from Khorne itself, then it would definitively place it chronologically ahead of everything else... Unless... as you stated it is the Aether, where time doesn't really matter, in which case, it could be the skull of the one who becomes Khorne. Not just that Khorne at some point in the infinity of time that he dies, but, that he wasn't always a god. You could have an even more horrific story where Khorne was a "mortal" who dies in the trauma of War and has their head put on a spike per say, and thus they become the first chaos god. They are the god lost to war, the god of unbridled rage, the fury to never lose again, to never again be the one beneath another. In that, either of my previous statements could be true, what if an old one died in the wars waged by the Lizard Men and his head was taken as a trophy, or in the many fierce wars held against the Dragons and the Dragon Ogres, perhaps an ancient Shaggoth lost it's head, Dying vengeful? who knows, that could be an excellent story, and I think it would further add to Khorne that perhaps unlike his brothers, Khorne was once mortal, which may be why he's consistently the strongest. You know, like how Sigmar is "the strongest god" because he was once mortal. Just something to think of.

[@joemiller361]

Khorne Flakes is a go.

[@hangebza6625]

Grom is already getting the milk

[@Erika_Redmark]

@@hangebza6625from a particularly good boy

[@SpiceCh]

I wonder - would it be possible to escape Karanak by becoming a vampire? Sure you'd damn your soul to the void, but I have a feeling that would be the preferable option

[@jeremiahsafford1389]

Very on the nose, but could the Slayer Forge be built upon the energy Khorne has harvesting from the rage of slayers?

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

Maybe the whole thing with Nagash and Karanak might have been that the several day "Battle" that Nagash had was against Karanak, perhaps it wasn't getting the soul from Khorne that was the hard part for Nagash

[@PatrickOMulligan]

If the Realm of Chaos connects 40k and Fantasy, how do you explain Bela'kor?

[@jackruby6696]

So does vashtor exist in warhammer fantasy?

[@weaponizedlizardmen360]

Currently no, but in the future? Possibly.

[@rknowling]

That Gold wizard summoning Karanak sounds too much like what I've seen in real life... lovely people, brilliant researchers, who just could not get along nicely... resulting in entire departments falling. Bitterly distressing for those of us who liked and admired all involved.

[@ZiGGi03]

Khorne sitting in the centre of the throne within the pillars I just picture Batman with the riddler sitting in the chair and all the memories get funnelled into his brain as tribute ina way that’s how I see Khorne but it’s blood and slaughter instead of memories feeding him

[@PatrickOMulligan]

But Andy! Bloodfather sounds cool.

[@kayosiiii]

My current theory is Khorne is a god of plants - blood after all makes excellent fertilizer.

[@thepain353]

Hehe, they bone on the skull throne

[@ej.crusing6130]

Zeus! I have come for my vengea... sorry wrong god of war. Ahem... Solkan!..

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

Sigmar isn't a daemon prince he's a daemon king of Ulric xdxdxd

[@ZiGGi03]

You should speak about the deep warp

[@ampednormal9045]

Didn't realise that in fantasy khorne only gets power from his followers killing in his name. In 40k it's pretty explicit that he's so powerful because any act of violence or bloodshed feeds him.

[@PoorManatee6197]

Is the same in fantasy, though worship and killing in his name is better.

[@DominionSorcerer]

Fighting and killing in general feeds him massively, along with every other similar war-like god, but fighting and killing in Khorne's name feeds him directly. The former is like finding a glass of water while you've been walking in a desert for days, while the latter is like finding an entire pool full of the cleanest water imaginable.

[@brathernumzy]

if there are 4 chaos gods involved in the great game . Then why does the chaos star have 8 points ??

[@davidwhitfield6025]

Are there Gods of True Order in the Warhammer Universe? By that I mean Gods that rule a dimension where everything follows the rule of the God. True, static entropy. The beings in this dimension do not think, do not age, do not change or evolve nor seek knowledge, do not have any emotions and cannot get sick. In other words the antithesis of Chaos. Now in Age of Sigmar I suppose Nagash's realm would be closest and is what Nagash had proposed during the End Times. If everything on the Warhammer realm was undead who unthinkingly obeyed the will of Nagash (and that would include the vampires) could Chaos exist? If there is no war, no thought, no sickness or death and no emotions would the Chaos God's die?

[@hangebza6625]

In Oldhammer you had the Gods of Law, the antithesis to the chaos gods. Arianka, Zoltan and Alluminas are the most prominent ones. Zoltan is all about divine retribution against anything which disrupts order. Arianka could be said to be following laws to the letter. And Alluminas is the god of light and unchanging stasis. If they'd win nothing would ever change again, the world would be like a painting, unmoving, unchanging. But they haven't been part of WFB for a long time and are only referentially mentioned as far as I know.

[@stefvanroey8191]

​@@hangebza6625 i believe wfhrp is taking them up again for Tilea and Estalia, even adding 2 to their number. Also, to be pedantic af: solkan ;)

[@luckyiccy5861]

i know the warp isnt a true plot hole or anything but the whole no time no reality thing always feels like a writing crutch even when it isnt. it allows all consequences, all timelines etc to bend or be removed anytime a new writer wants to change something, which is kinda the point but also ends up feeling like nothing matters if a character dies or is born or a territory changes hands...not only will it not matter, it never even happened. need to remove a character who is problematic to your new story or is an old fact contrary to it. you didnt retcon, its just warp shenanigans

[@josecoronadonieto6911]

If i were to rewrite khorne, i will use it that way in my wfrp campaign, i would make priests be leaders, giving leadership bonuses or abilities to control frenzying units to a certain point.

[@SpiceCh]

Priests focusing the rage and insanity and perhaps even manifesting miracles the likes of war priests and arch lectors for sigmar - i could definitely see that being possible in lore.

[@emmahagens]

khorne would be into bdsm, and blood and knife play.

[@blazindragon1833]

How come all the Lawhammer Lorebeard videos haven't been added to this playlist?? I find it kind of an unnecessary pain to have to search for both when they could all be in one playlist and you guys can cross-promote each others channels better.

[@stephenlucas8836]

Could to square the hole on khorne using the ranged weapons contradiction, you could say khorne, Don’t mind but it doesn’t generate as much warp power as killing with melee. Philologically, fighting and killing from long range gives humans more detached feeling and death often comes as a surprise( fire arm innovation is why the US civil war has one of the highest body counts). Khorne gain power by killing but also the participation of both parties during the act. Point and kill of a riffle is less likely to attract Khorne’s attention over the intensity of the life and death struggle being charged by some trying to shoot you with a pistol at point blank range. Most Khorne warriors’ goal is milk as much attention from there god, and excuing range in favor of close combat (in addition to rage addled minds hampering operations of delicate and complex machinery) is the easier way earn it (like would not shun shotguns if they were durable and a angry gorilla could use its).

[@stephenlucas8836]

To repeat Khorne as nothing against ranged combat, but practically his favor and corruption is easier earned from the intensity of emotion felt in close quarter combat.

[@weslooos]

Khorn should go full bloodpunk (Steampunk) make steam by boiling blood, and get gaus rifles or gatling guns and such fuled by it. give Khorn his teh back and not making it 40k your welcome GW. Adn yes its using the blood sacrificed to him, but well Khorn doesn't care from where it flows as long as it does.

[@jeremiahsafford1389]

Have any orcs ever fallen to Khorne? A few have in 40k.

[@paxluporum4447]

Comment for the comment gods.

[@vemaniks]

Whats with the insistence on everything should be gay? Vlad and mannfred were gay lovers, instead of valkia it should have been a male khornate in a homosexual relationship with khorne, Gotrek and Felix were lovers and so on. Truly baffling.

[@PoorManatee6197]

"put a chick in it and make her gay!!!"

[@disappointedviewerh7303]

It was mentioned because Arbaal exists and was/ is Khornes favorite, and they think it'd be better to show that it's not exactly a sexual thing as since Valkia is a women everyone assumes ofc it has to be (even though its probably not). The Mannfred and Vlad idea was based on them being vampires and probably being beyond the ideas of physical attraction and being so enthralled with the soul of the other because of how much Mannfred loved Vlad, according to lore. Gotrek and Felix, I have no clue. I have never heard that idea posited before, so idk the reference for why that idea was tossed, but I can't see it for those two as they are both mortals, with one of them being established as really into every attractive woman he meets. I think it just comes up a lot because its a narrative that older Warhammer lore would probably never consider for obvious reasons, and these streams are about considering Warhammer lore in ways outside the box that old school gw wouldn't have, and a gay character seems to fall under that umbrella. For the immortal characters that are barely human, if at all, sexuality seems rather unimportant but the idea of lovers is the closest thing we have to illustrate how deep a connection some characters are meant to have ( I remember reading the Revenge of the sith novelization and the author seemed to really try and convey just how close Anakin and Obiwan are and just said closer then lovers but ig no word properly exists for it in english and that type of connection is what they are trying to point out here in some cases I think). In retrospect, the last thing I said is probably the same idea for Gotrek and Felix.

[@stefvanroey8191]

I think you are hyperfocussing on a couple of specific parts in a set of tangeants. And i think you take their comment about gotrek and felix loving eachother a bit too serious, they did not mean as lovers.

[@disappointedviewerh7303]

@@stefvanroey8191 I am unaware of the actual comment or context like I said earlier. I assume its just the strongest way to describe how much they care for each other like I said in the edit at the bottom.