Kia Ceed PHEV 1000 km challenge

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[@bjornnyland]

So many people ask the same question: Why didn't you charge during 30 minute lunch? The answer is quite obvious, but not so clear for many people. The car has only 3.5 kW on-board charger. It means that during 30 minutes, you will only get about 10 km of range. And the price per km for the electricity is in fact higher than for fuel. That's becuase you have to pay 1 SEK/minute to get access to 22 kW AC. But you can only utilize 3.5 kW of it. And if I would charge there, I had to park the car at McDonald's, waste precious time pulling out the type 2 cable, plug it in, start charging and then reverse the process after food. And the charger is about 1 minute walk away from ChopChop. It's quite clear that adding 10 km of range has absolutely no impact since we have more than enough range anyways. I checked the refueling at 16:00. It fills up the fuel at a rate of 34,300 km/hour. So 10 km of range would take about one extra second to fill up while you're already refueling. I don't know if that make sense to you or not. The whole charging process would have taken 3-4 minutes extra while saving only 1 second of refuel time. Now let's see how many people who will still ask this question in the comment section :P

[@degerrit]

Makes sense, thanks, I wondered the same! And I guess in terms of CO2 emissions (because EV drivers care, right?), those 10km extra EV range (or 50km if you go all the way) will not really make all that much difference for your carbon footprint either, considering you've burned fuel for at least 900km anyway.

[@keithware5314]

Absolutely right Bjorn I have an Ioniq PHEV and I very rarely plug in away from home it's not worth the hassle for a few miles. I was on holiday in Devon last year in a lodge and the owner let me plug in every night for free which was perfect for me. Everyone has different ideas on what they want their car to be or do but there should be one common want for all drivers, keep the air we breathe as clean as possible.

[@andersolsson9064]

I agree that it's in that case not worthwhile to add just 10 km of range during a 30 minute break. But which charging network asks for 1 SEK / minute for AC-charging? My experience is that AC charging is usually paid for by the kWh, not by the minute - usually 2-3 SEK / kWh in Sweden. Much cheaper than petrol!

[@keithware5314]

@@bdeithrick I agree I never block a charger because I have an alternative method of propulsion BEV'S don't. The Ioniq PHEV out of interest cannot use above 22kw. When I first got the car I tried to use a 50kw charger just for interest but it wouldn't have it.

[@keithware5314]

Hi Bjorn I get regularly asked is my battery degrading fast on my Ioniq PHEV because I constantly run it very low and I charge it to 100% every time because it is a small battery. I have not noticed any degradation in over 2 years and I believe it is because on a PHEV the battery never gets stressed. The maximum charge rate is 3.3kw but mostly 2.2kw on my domestic supply and when driving when I accelerate hard the engine kicks in and does the hard work taking the strain off the battery. As I see it a BEV battery gets rapid charged which apparently degrades batteries and under hard acceleration it has to supply a lot of juice to the motor so it doesn't have such a peaceful life. That is how I see it and I would like, your views on it too, you may disagree and you have more experience with EV's than I have.

[@nomisastro2000]

So strange seeing Bjorn using a fuel pump.

[@martingorbush2944]

I thought that he will pee there. ;)

[@tkermi]

ICE, ICE Baby 🤢🤮🤣

[@Reason077]

Rich Rebuilds is ditching EVs and going back to gas cars. Bjørn next?

[@francescoboselli6033]

People: “2020 can be more strange” Bjorn: use a fuel pump

[@realJimPanse]

Best comment :-)

[@OrganicStuff1]

Man this guy works so hard respect

[@noer0205]

Thank you Björn for the video! I really liked that you have added a reference fossil car to the 1000 km challenge. To me it makes perfect sense to have a benchmark in the table. Also the upcoming EV's now have something to beat.

[@Angusoksen]

KIA! Please make this Kia Ceed SW with Kia E-Niro 64kwh powertrain! Europe desperately needs an all electric stationwagon! and tow hitch as well! :)

[@greengrubwoodentoysaustral8452]

Yes, yes, bring it on! Australia also needs an EV tow capable station wagon. Will it be MG or Kia to fill this market first?

[@VolvoMetal]

@@greengrubwoodentoysaustral8452 Probably VW, they have mentioned a wagon version of the id3 with "perfect aerodynamics" Not sure if it can tow though.

[@JohnDoe-vx3z]

I second that, but the current battery might not fit in the available space.

[@alconaft4343]

No, they want do this. Check how much battery is popped up from eNiro/Kuna. There is not enough clearance for it. They need design that car from scratch as electric.

[@ronaldusher39]

New Nissan EV can tow

[@MrTechfreak95]

Thanks so much for that reference test. :) It really shows that the difference is not that big, at least with tesla / e-tron. But as you also mentioned the charging time can be used useful if that makes sense. :D

[@Chrisb8s]

The thing is. Most people would rarely even use the gas if it had a fast charger

[@jost4786]

Excellent video, as always, Bjørn! I have a BEV and a PHEV. Both going fully electric locally and only charged at home. Of 30000km on both cars, 10-20% is long distance high speed driving in Europe with the PHEV which has 85 litre fuel tank. I can then stop where I want to stop and not where the car needs me to stop. Fuel cost is not the high cost when owning two new cars. Fun fact: I also have two heat-pumps in my house saving more electricity than both cars use!

[@0hypnotoad0]

"not where the car needs me to stop" except... at the gas station?

[@jost4786]

@@0hypnotoad0 you do not need to stop there often and for long time. It is next to your hotel at the end of your travel after 1000 km and takes 4 minutes without any planning in any country. Great flexibility on my holidays

[@Allride_]

I appreciate you testing a PHEV for a change :)

[@ivancajka732]

Makes me happy why I dont have one lol

[@Allride_]

Yeah it's a good update on where each propulsion system is at the moment

[@tobiasstaermose]

Our Outlander PHEV can actually use Chadamo and charge at around 16kw, so on longer trips we usualy just plan a few stops and top up a bit a on the battery :) Dont know why so many PHEV's does not include fast charging.

[@Aleks-kx3zj]

16kW is not fast charging... and really fast charging (>50kW) is only possible for bigger batteries.

[@tobiasstaermose]

@@Aleks-kx3zj faster than 3.7kw ac, I know its not "fast", but in 20 min I actually have 25-30km of range, its super convenient eg when shopping on the daily commute. Much much faster than only having ac.

[@kardy12]

Fast charging on a small battery would put a lot more stress on it. So even if it was available, not sure it would be such a good idea to ram 50kW or faster speeds into it.

[@tobiasstaermose]

@@kardy12 just because it's charging on a 50kw charger does not mean it receive 50kw. I think it maxes out at around 16kw, and as it has a 14kwh battery it's only around 1,1C, and that's really not that hard on any lithium battery. It's all down to the chemistry, some rc lipos can charge at like 15C+.

[@MylanPS3]

Some Mercedes PHEV's have DC charging too nowadays. They use a CCS plug at 24 kW max I think for the A-class PHEV (might be different for other models).

[@AnatoliiIsaiev]

Very nice test! Thanks a lot for showing the time it takes to do a long trip on EV over plug-in hybrid. This was very important for me to see. I don't have much driving experience and you clearly showed that driving on petrol vs electric is not that time consuming anymore. The long trips are the only doubt I used to have. Not anymore, thanks to you. Thanks a lot for your dedication and performing such tests. Your channel, by far, is the most interesting. Thanks for the comparison charts on Drive.

[@Reason077]

That's actually a bit dodgy that the odometer is so inaccurate. This car will under-report it's true milage by thousands of kilometers over it's lifetime!

[@marianzdarsky9504]

Good for the warranty though...

[@lukass.6609]

Does it really matter? Not really, doesnt matter if the car has 200 or 208 Thousand Kilometers, its purely down to maintanence and use. Those will affect how long its life will be much more than a few thousand kilometers.

[@marcgirard7551]

Great video with great scientific value! Thank you, Bjorn! You make great points about the fact that a lot of the charging time will actually be quality time to eat or visit places or whatever.

[@TillGroos]

If someone wants to tweak and optimize consumption, cruise at 120km/h on the speedo (and not 125 as Björn did), because the Ceed PHEV will run in HEV Mode only if you go faster than 120km/h. And also use the SatNav and Auto-Mode (not EV Mode), so the car can decide, when to spend the batterie. It will not make a big difference, but burning less dinosaur juice is always good :)

[@cicciottobiscotto5070]

Sorry I'm not sure I understand - cruising at 120km/h would have made the car use battery in a 'smart' way rather than emptying it all at the beginning?

[@dfjelddalen]

Been hoping to see this challenge comparison, very interesting and thanks for doing it! Of course in addition to the surprisingly small time difference there is that sweet freedom of knowing your fuelstop is 2 minutes not 20 or 50 minutes, and no risk of a significant queue at the pump 😜 Agree completely that chargers should have the same simple UI, som much easier. Also Nice car and quite relevant choice! 👍

[@jrherita]

Lolol.. so funny watching the timer while gassing up here :). Excellent video Bjorn - I wanted to see what the conditions were of the benchmark car vs the EVs and this was great.

[@alejandromeneses7735]

Nice quick fuel stops. In Germany you have to first fill up, then walk into the store, stand in line behind customers buying coffee and pastries and deciding what brand of cigarettes they want... it takes at least five minutes to pay.

[@bjornnyland]

Ok, nice.

[@Chrisb8s]

I had a chevy volt before my tesla. It has a “mountain mode “. The motor will fill ip the battery to 50% for attacking mountains. It would use it as would get close to my destination i would kick it on so i could drive electric in the cityi.

[@IxLuckyxI]

An interesting plug in competitor would be an Hyundai IONIQ Plug In Hybrid. The plug in has the same tank size of around 43l as my normal hybrid while providing around 50 to 60km on electric. Going with the same consumption that I get with my normal Hybrid of 3.7-4.2l per 100km you should be able to easily do the 1000km with a single tank and charge combined. Would be very interesting to see how much Norways and Swedens elevations impact this forecast to be honest

[@keithware5314]

That would be interesting but I don't think Bjorn will be doing any more PHEV's

[@drpaci]

I have Ioniq PHEV and real range is somewhere around 900km with half road at 135km/h tacho speed and avg summer consumption under 4,5l/100km (with 4 people on board, full-ish trunk and 1 full charge in mid-point)...

[@carlito1777]

@@drpaci To get 1000km you need to stick with 110km/h, it is around 1/2l/100km/h less.

[@felixklusener5530]

Good test and relevant for people to make a decision. For Norway it's very clear that an EV saves money and you don't loose too much time. For my country (Germany) it's different. Fuel is cheaper and electricity costs way more and you don't get a VAT discount for EVs like in Norway. Model 3 SR+ costs about 20k € more than the Ceed PHEV. Since you can use electricity for daily driving anyway and costs for long trips are not significantly higher, an EV doesn't save you any money. A car in the same price range here is Ioniq, but 1.000 km in Ioniq will take 5 hours longer. Now people need to decide what they want.

[@DG-uv3zw]

Well for Germany there is now id3. It should work pretty well, and its VW... For short city trips used EV is best choice as a second car... And you save big money buy not buying Hybrid in the first place...

[@LiquidScience-25]

I just ordered this car and I cannot wait!

[@magnusolsson864]

Tack för en bra video som vanligt 🇸🇪💪👍

[@enyaq_gorm]

flammable liquids in a car and you have to stand there filling the car? It will never catch on, too much hassle.

[@MikeDeeee]

The fumes can be addictive, that's probably why people still do it.

[@samusaran7317]

​@@MikeDeeeeThat and a noisy exhaust. I'd rather listen to music

[@stevemccormack9948]

Thats a real nice car. Kia should make a fully electric version of it.

[@AaronStarkLinux]

Probably they are working on that. They have the eNiro and eSoul now, more Kia/Hyundai models will be converted soon.

[@Mr.Carter777]

I appreciate you testing.Mange Takk

[@ThomasT1976]

Flot arbejde, Bjørn!

[@autosundspiele1602]

Thanks for the honest testing! For comparison the pricing in Germany: 170 kWh per 0,33€ -> 56,10€ plus 60 kWh per 0,31€ -> 18,60€. Still cheaper, but very close.

[@marcell1968]

The question of this test is” wil there be an ev that is faster than this fossiel car.”

[@siraff4461]

Only possible if the ev didn't have to charge. But then there are already plenty of fossils which can go more than 1000km on a tank. If you drive at the same speeds over the same distance the only difference is the stops.

[@AsztaliTenisz]

Hi! Is the car charged itself in sportmode at the end of the 1000km? Is it consumes a lot of petrol in that case? thank you!

[@audineb]

The reason for not regenerate downhill may be because of use of cruisecontrol. If you have driven without (adaptive) cruisecontrol and coasted downhill, using either your brake pedal lightly or maybe a regenerate setting on the gear-shifter (like the B on the Volvo T8) you most likely would be some % higher at the bottom.

[@matsa85]

This was a great video to show that BEVs are better. Better than the acceleration test video because you get to make so many good points when comparing how stops are for each drivetrain. :)

[@BoopBobBeep]

Someone have kidnapped Bjorn! Bjorn will never drive a fossil car. This guy pretending to be Bjorn!😂

[@bjornnyland]

Someone commented before watching the video...

[@AsbjrnEliassen]

Do the ceed have a heatpump? I got similar mileage two years ago driving down through Sweden in my Kia Optima PHEV. Getting good mileage on city driving, but for longer trips it get very similar to an ordinary fuel car, except for the regeneration downhill. On Norwegian roads I usually get around 3,5-4,5l/100km depending on driving style, distance and night charging opportunities.

[@043400000000000]

Hi so what you think about Bmw 530e or Kia creed plug-in hybrid which one more economic car or is it big difference between them ?

[@wrenchingfool5284]

1000km challenge is a very relevant challenge for anyone who regularly or even occasionally takes road trips and is looking to purchase an EV. EVs are far better city cars than almost any ICE vehicle, but the struggle has been making them less inconvenient for long trips. I plan on doing a similar topic on my channel once its up and running, doing a 500mile challenge (I will give credit to you for the idea!) on US roads and the weaker US charging infrastructure.

[@sebastianw8017]

Hey Bjorn how u thnik ... this car is good?

[@maurof]

Dear Bjorn, I loved this 1000km challenge as usual! I think it's very interesting to make a comparison between the full electric and the plug-in hybrid. If you will have the chance, I would love to see the tests of Volvo XC40 PHEV Recharge, BMW X1 225 xe and so on ... with important focus on real consumption.

[@1981zayn]

Could we please get the e-2008 mini suv tested 🙏 i would like to know if thirsty like the DS

[@lukekeegan9403]

Thank you for doing this challenge Bjorn. As you say, this is a good reference for fossil vs EV to show that EV's are close to fossil cars (and will soon surpass them) in long distance driving times. Keep up the good work on your videos and your balanced and well thought out tests/challenges/reviews. Really enjoy them!

[@thomaseriksson3182]

Good review! Big suprice..but tanks anyway for this!❤️👍

[@Elfutbolista2010]

Great content man! Love your vids. I have a kia optima PHEV 2020, and was wondering if there is an app or somekind of computer I can buy to see exactly how much it consumes, regenerates, etc? =)

[@RonsonDenmark]

15:00 + 26:00 Good to see you are using a SK700-2, world's best pump from the world's best company ;) And a NC3 terminal (I think), also Gilbarco.

[@chadvader93]

now do it with a FCEV, costs will be enormous I guess 😅

[@hamfish225]

and pray that no one used the pump just before you else you'll be waiting for the pump to repressurise

[@chadvader93]

Hamish would be a good real life scenario

[@georgepelton5645]

FCHEV

[@RandyTWester]

The car might not use regen unless the cruise control is on, or the brake is applied slightly. It might have a setting similar to the Prime's 'charge mode' that lets you charge up the battery before a fuel stop, so you leave with a full tank plus full charge.

[@IhsanDogan]

Thank you Bjorn for the video. It proves again, that EVs are not that bad as people think. A few years ago, I've read that in Germany, the average car drives 70 km per day. I live in Switzerland, where the distances are shorter than in Germany, but 70 km would apply here as well. The range of my Tesla Model X 100D is actually enough, that I can cover even longer trips with a single charge and I use the Superchagers every 2-3 months once or twice. It is correct, that a longer road trip will cost me 30 minutes more of my time, but with my Model X, I have every morning a fully charged (okay, it's only 80% to be specific) car. Before with the Diesel I had to fill up the tank once a week. It's correct, that you can fill up the tank in 5 minutes, but the detour through the gas station will cost me 15 minutes. That means, I've spent every week 15 minutes with filling up the tank of my Diesel car. An electric car is here a clear benefit, as I can safe this time.

[@IhsanDogan]

@Seb C Absolutely - I was one of them. My calculation regarding Teslas maintenance cost was totally wrong. I never expected, that it would be that cheap.

[@Antho2030]

Is it powerfull enough to maintain 130km/h even in rises when the batterie is like 8% ? Not understand everything with thé sport mod at 125kmh, it does not recharge the batterie ? so How do you regen from 10% to 40% ? Thx

[@TheKorven2010]

Im looking at a 2021 model. So Will I be able to drive 22km to and from work on electric and charge it at home every day? That Will save me some money!

[@JohnDoe-vx3z]

25:06 this is surprisingly fast. I usually end up with 100km/h average (including breaks) in Germany when driving at 130. There is always traffic or construction zones bringing down your average. I guess the difference is how many breaks you do, I'd do 3-4 on 1000km.

[@KevinT3141]

Exactly, for most people on a long trip a good EV is not slower at all.

[@ChannelPotato]

Cost Problem in Germany is that we are not able to charge for 0,10€/kWh it is more likely 30-35ct/kWh...

[@jestronixhanderson9898]

This is great 60km is what most drivers will do on a work day, which is 70% of our life ! Double the pack and I can sell the leaf, both worlds :)

[@DG-uv3zw]

Yeah, it doesn`t really work like that... Double the pack means more weight( less fuel efficient) and also less power(already really slow) and much more expensive. They need to increase engine or motor power... Add at least $5.000...

[@kasmopaya2676]

@@DG-uv3zw Also the engine dies if it is not used much. BMW has a Service function that the engine has to be used regularly otherwise it takes damage. Even with this shieeett, a lot of REX engines die because of boredom. Just go for a little EV like VW-e up. Don't go Hybrid, just don't. Still all the dirty and costly fossil shit onboard.

[@davids.6671]

I tought about buying it. What did Stop me? I work 220 days a year. I would load once at home and once at work (44 km one trip). That would be 500 cycles a year. In 3 years 1500 full cycles... And I didn't look at the time needed for all this loading and plug connecting. Edit: a plugin makes with 1500 cycles 45000 km. The ev i ordered min 300000km...

[@jestronixhanderson9898]

Very good point for plug ins, they get fully cycled, this is where LifePO4 has more cycle life but similar issues and more weight. Plug ins hybrid failed big time here.

[@rs9K78]

@@davids.6671 the battery is guaranteed for 7y or 150k km, whatever comes first. So in six years, with 3000 full cycles, your battery would still be in warranty. I wouldn't worry about that.

[@ivancajka732]

The only PHEV I would drive: 250 hp 50kwh battery 20 L fuel tank The 3 cylinder gasoline engine only as range extender Driving on electricity only. Model 3 owner btw

[@bjornnyland]

BMW i3 REx is the closest match.

[@ivancajka732]

Yeah the Rex is the one that inspired me to write this hehe Funny how the plug-in hybrids that serious EV owners want to own/drive don't even exist even after all these years of electromobility. The legacy carmakers want to maintain the status quo and make dorky little circus clown cars.

[@andyb6851]

@@ivancajka732 I think it would be too expensive to make and thus there aren't enough customers for it. And in the normal auto industry, it's all about the size of demand. Designing a car and buying robots to make it and setting up the factory is a huge expense, so the auto makers need to sell a large amount of a certain model before they even cover costs. Thus they are so risk averse with trying new things, they are afraid of losing time and resources on things that won't provide a return and in a way they are correct since too many such mistakes can easily make the whole company fail. And also, we know from EV history how for people who didn't want to wait at chargers, Tesla actually created 5-minute stop battery swap places for the model S. But people didn't use that service at all and thus it got abandoned, even though so many kept begging Tesla how they'd like to have it in the first place.

[@seandominko109]

Or the Mercedes GLE with over 30kWh Battery

[@alejandromeneses7735]

Ivan, I think that very few people who have driven an EV with a 50 kWh battery (and true fast charging) would think it is imperative to carry around 15 kg of fuel. How much would that even add after generation and storage losses? About 29 to 30 kWh?. Good base for a debate though.

[@onlineo2263]

So over 1000km and 9+ hours driving a Tesla model 3 Performance is 35 mins slower. I think most people can live with that difference, as most people don't do 1000 km very often and when we do that distance mostly we stop more frequently than that.

[@nachocollantes7602]

Most people can live with the difference but most people can't pay 60k euros or more. How much does that Kia cost? 26k? I think the correct question should be: would you pay 40k euros more because of the ecology? I have 2 sons and 1 daughter. What car could I buy?

[@sakru100]

@@nachocollantes7602 For your children and their childrens future you should be ecological even if its harder/cost more

[@bjornnyland]

You don't need to get Model 3 Performance. Model 3 SR+ did it in 10h30min and costs a lot less.

[@nachocollantes7602]

Don't get me wrong Bjørn and all here, I am agree in general with all of you. I (we) have big difficulties here in Spain. You have way way more chargers in your country than in ours, so the electric choice have to point to Tesla, which is not a problem. I could buy the M3 SR+ but it won't be the best solution to my 5 occupants needs. So I need the Model S, which I love but I can't afford it. The Model Y is the choice. I like it and I can deal with panel gaps and all that kind of things that I don't really mind too much. So I have to spend the biggest amount of money by far I've ever spent in a car that I don't like the most, but....could be. The nearest service point is about 2 and half hours away from my house. The ranger service takes 10 days in North Spain to attend the service. Not all the countries are like Norway, Sweden, Holland...and I am considering to buy a second hand Model S but...it's a risky business... Apart from that, I think that this kind of videos are the most important. Here in Spain, we are still discussing whether the batteries are more pollutant than the diesel. The majority of the people here don't distinguish hybrid, plugin hybrids or even electric (Toyota is guilty for this). The electric vehicle is for rich and mad people, they say. We need this kind of videos.

[@kasmopaya2676]

Once the v3 Superchargers are up, the difference will be gone. Just wait a few more month.

[@jasonw98]

Bjorn, what you miss when you are driving a PHEV compare to EV?

[@bjornnyland]

Lot of things. Like instant acceleration, not having to pay a shitload for fossil juice, etc.

[@jasonw98]

@@bjornnyland Well in my country 1L of RON 95 fuel price can only buy you 7.7 kWh or less of electricity, so it doesn't make sense for us...

[@user-in1gn6fw2eab]

Ohh this is a new type of video : D

[@martingorbush2944]

@7:10. There is an explanation.

[@Johnrick90]

I dare you to try a CNG 1000 km challenge! Since most newer CNG cars come with only 9 liters gasoline tank.. planning is key and also luck about finding station with good pressure to max out cng gas tank capacity. Sweden have at least decent CNG stations. But also exciting to see money efficiency and how much of total distance were made by fossil. In Sweden most CNG stations have 100% bio to offer. Then no co2.

[@AnthonyWoodruffe]

Great video and I personally think a correct deco on the car to use Björn.

[@kcfish4862]

Ceed, well play kia

[@walterk8602]

Good honest challenge. When talking about petrol price comparisons, don't forget that the petrol price includes road tax, which will be added to ev travel costs one day.

[@nukularpictures]

And energy tax, and eco tax, etc. At least in Germany the taxes on fuel make more than 60% of the price. So yeah once it will start becoming more mainstream it will change. You can basically double the price then but hey in the first years it is cheaper :)

[@sippe3985]

Do you drive so much for work?

[@Skyprey]

what is the speed limit? Wonder if driving at that would make it regen more? Most highways in Denmark, have 110 limit!

[@putrid_swamp_juice]

Bjørn, how did you arrive at the Wh/km for the fossil car?

[@e-redj]

1L of petrol equals to 8.7 kWh, diesel is 9.8kWh/l

[@bjornnyland]

Yes, that's right.

[@maltehoffmann3621]

In Germany (in the Noth west region) fuel costs on average 1,31€ per liter. Electricity at home is 0,265€per kw/h and 0,33€ per kwh at the supercharger. So the fossil would cost 79,91€ (actually a bit more because you also spend electricity) and the Tesla would cost 72€. So it's only a 8€ saving (this year). With a more normal fuel price of 1,45€/L it is 88,45€. So the savings would double.

[@seandominko109]

Holy sh**, Bjorn with a Phev!!!

[@bjornnyland]

Watch 7:07

[@yngveringstad5698]

HI Bjørn. Why do you have 31 % battery left, when you reach 1000km driven distance? Do you use the fossil engine to charge the battery on the last distance?

[@bjornnyland]

Yes, on sport mode during the trip. Did you miss that part? The 31 % is irrelevant though if you understand how things work.

[@yngveringstad5698]

@@bjornnyland I am sorry, i miss that part.

[@oalsaker]

Looking forward to Tesla-Bjørn doing the Cannonball run in a Model 3 to show how easy it is :-D

[@Anthroplast]

I agree, slacking is quality time

[@jhonedoe3734]

I like your analysis at the end, but for me at least it's not about money or travel time, it's more about the hassle of keeping your eye on the battery level with EVs and charging more frequently than Diesel cars. I know this hybrid doesn't have a long range but if you do the challenge with a Volkswagen Golf for example, you won't even need to think about refueling since it has up to +1200km of range on a single tank. Of course you will stop to rest but you won't have to think about charging all the time, and you can stop wherever you want, not specifically in a gas station.

[@samusaran7317]

Thinking is too much work?

[@rs9K78]

Hi Bjørn, did you drive in HEV modus the whole journey? Or did you start as EV and then let the car switch over to HEV? (Why I'm asking: in my mind it would make sense that the total efficiency gains over 1000km might be better served by keeping the car in HEV mode instead of draining the battery quickly as it appears to me you have done...)

[@bjornnyland]

Watch the video and you will find out ;)

[@rs9K78]

@@bjornnyland Yeah I missed these few seconds apparently. Still my comment stands, I think you may have lost some overall efficiency on your long drive by draining the battery so quickly. (I watched your two Kia tests because I'm considering, still not sure, whether or not to ditch my Diesel Ford Focus and go with a Ceed PHEV, I'm gathering info ;) )

[@kasmopaya2676]

Once the Model 3 gets the new battery, the battery day will show and the 1000km challenge will be done with the v3 Superchargers, Tesla is as fast, or faster then a Hybrid.

[@nukularpictures]

Yeah sure Tesla will have developed a battery with more than 2x the capacity / l or capacity / kg. Like all of the other, bigger and industry leading battery manufacturers did not manage to do that... Come on Tesla is also just a company and not a magic show. If they improve it by 20% I will be surprised and the battery day get just delayed further and further. I really can not understand the hype created around Tesla. Its a car, thats it. And in the near future there will be electric cars that will equal the performance of the Tesla. So yeah.

[@dmukherjee8463]

Appreciate the perspective.A proper benchmark hybrid might be the new Prius or its Honda counterpart, they are supposedly the most efficient. Curious if you could have them as well

[@TBasianeyes]

3:40 "my first planned charging stop" hehe

[@Anton-io1fv]

Nice t-shirt :)

[@jollyjohn6403]

What would have been the difference in mileage if you had driven the car in hybrid mode ? Would it drive on petrol and battery charge interchanging during the drive? or would it finish the battery charge and then shift to petrol as shown in this video?

[@bjornnyland]

The car was in hybrid mode.

[@jollyjohn6403]

@@bjornnyland I heard that such hybrids run on fossil on the highway and shift to ev mode rearly, but here the ccar depleted the charge before it shifted to fossil.... strange.

[@John_S_NL]

Why did you not charge the car when you were at chopchop? or was that not possible there?

[@bjornnyland]

And as for recharging: this car has 3.5 kW on-board charger. During my 30 minute stop, I would have added 10 km of range which is pointless. Range in a fossil car is not critical. And I would have wasted 3-5 minutes plugging in and starting/stopping the charge.

[@mrmuds8624]

The instrument cluster in my opinion looks way nicer than the one one in the e-niro or soul ev. I don't understand why they don't use something like this, maybe when they do a model revision, they will start using it.

[@costinioana]

That's the "new" instrument cluster available in the ceed (and its siblings) range. It's not even available as standard everywhere - where I live, it's an optional extra.

[@FancyaBevMate]

We love fossil comparisons can you do a costing comparison with the the following price for the vehicle tax if applicable and of course fuel for say a full tank vs a normal ICE. One thing you will have to factor in is the cost of ICE being discounted. Once you factor everything let's see what the real cost and the point of phev. Cheers and thanks if you can do this bjorn

[@rizaorhan3995]

Could you please do the same test with diesel and diesel/plug-in? Because i wanna buy a GLE 350or300 DE. Great work btw! Congrats! Greatings from a volvo employee of Ghent

[@brianparker2400]

How do the times compare with two drivers swapping when one needs a rest?

[@bjornnyland]

Irrelevant.

[@brianparker2400]

@@bjornnyland How is my question irrelevant? This is the way the wife and I tackle long journeys. We spend no more time than necessary at a service station. Limitation is generally my bladder endurance.

[@nukularpictures]

@@brianparker2400 Yeah that is what I do too. I swap with my girlfriend and we easily manage the first 500-600km without a break. 1000km we usually take two short breaks (maybe 10 min in total). But hey then the fossile car would be below 9h so it would not seem so close. You just do not have that possibility with an EV. Also the freedom to stop away from highways to get better food for reasonable prices.

[@dmunro9076]

I hope you'll try a 1000km challenge with a Prius Prime. My guess (based upon my 2020 Prime) is that you'd average ~4.5l/100km.

[@bjornnyland]

Irrelevant. Watch 7:07

[@ojeskog]

I'm loving having the PHEV as reference. The difference is that in a fossil you can stop for a break or to eat exactly anywhere you like on a long journey. It doesn't have to be at a petrol station. In the EV you are limited to where the chargers are if you are in a hurry. That's what you give up with an EV. I have for the first time dared to rent an EV for a half month visit to Sweden and Norway later in the year (that I hope goes ahead). It will be interesting to see how long distance EV driving works out where high powered charging networks are much better than where I live. Still a bit worried I'll struggle to pay for charging at places... Had it just been me and the wife I'd stuck to a PHEV but as we'll be having our baby son with us I'm sure we'll slot in enough stops at chargers + several other non charging stops too so travel time won't be affected at all despite driving about 3000km with a majority done over 4 long travel days. Or my wife will end up saying I told you it was a bad idea to rent an EV...

[@zocker1600]

when doing the same calculation with the prices here in Germany, then driving fossil is cheaper than electric.

[@MikeDeeee]

Only if you drive very fast (which is possible of course).

[@zocker1600]

@@MikeDeeee no why, this doesn't make sense. I took exactly the same consumption data as Bjorn, just with German pricing: so for fossil: 1.35 €/L * 61 L = 82.35€ for EV (TESLA): 175 kWh * 0.4 €/kWh (SUC) = 70€ 60 kWh * 0.3 €/kWh (at home) = 18€ total: 70€ + 18 € = 88€ for EV (E-Tron): 220 kWh * 0.35 €/kWh (IONITY) = 77€ 70 kWh * 0.3 €/kWh (at home) = 21€ total: 98€ and this is with quite a high fossil price, I often see it here for around 1.2 €/L

[@MikeDeeee]

​@@zocker1600 ​ The 230 Wh/km seem very high for a Model 3 driven at moderate speeds in Sweden and Norway (i.e. even with Björn's "VAT" he would probably not go above 130 km/h often). My Ioniq (with all-season tyres) uses around 180 Wh/km with adaptive cruise control set to 135 km/h (=130 km/h GPS) in summer; I thought the Model 3 was just as efficient. I pay just under 25 Cent per kWh at home/destination and typically 30-35 Cent per kWh on the road at CCS fast chargers. So for a mix of 1:3 for home/destination charging and fast charging (as typical on a longer trip), I end up with €5.50 per 100 km. At a speed of 130 km/h, petrol definitely can't beat this. An efficient Diesel car can get close though with current prices.

[@zocker1600]

@@MikeDeeee I fully agree with your numbers, I wonder why Bjorn's consumption is so high, I was just taking his kWh numbers. But that being said, in Germany prices are still higher, at home I pay 30 Cent / kWh and on CCS fast chargers it can go all the way up to 70 ct / kWh when I assume a mix with an overall price of 35 ct/kWh and 180 Wh/km then it's 6.30€ / 100km Diesel is 1.06€/L (!) right now over here, so when I assume 5,5 L/100km then it's 5.83 € / 100km pls don't get me wrong, I am 100% PRO EVs, but the price argument doesn't cut it, because it is not really cheaper you can see the current prices in DE here: www.clever-tanken.de/statistik/historie/diesel

[@onedankind8168]

@@zocker1600 aren't those the consumption numbers for 120km? I also don't think it's a big deal that it may cost 20$ more for big trips like this when 99% of other charging costs 1/10th. Especially when we're talking about only really efficient hybrids. All other fossils will be worse.

[@davidlangr]

Hi Bjorn, I like the way you do the tests and all the calculations of efficiency. Not trusting on-board computers, SW and manafacturers in general. Here is one challenging question for this test. Since you mentioned that distance traveled was 40 km more than distance reported by car I assume the travel speed reported was also lower than actual speed. And since you used cruise control (125 km/h) you might have been driving faster than with Tesla 3? What do you think?

[@bjornnyland]

Nope, I was not driving faster than the Tesla. I of course check GPS speed on every car I test. By the way, if you're not aware of it: Many cars have errors in reported distance and speed. It's very common that 100 km/h on speedometer is 96 km/h real speed. And you might think that the same car has an equal error in distance (about 4 %). But that's actually not the case.

[@szilviabiro8994]

Hi Bjorn, will be Tesla Model S performance, and Tesla Model S longe range 1000 km challenge ? I would be interested.

[@harsimranbansal5355]

Can a model 3 be just as fast if it uses the V3 chargers??

[@bjornnyland]

Almost.

[@Gutomino]

Need to say that this comparation works in Norway, where the gas is expensive and electricity is kind of cheap. In my country I drive with PHV about 40% chceaper than my previous EV. The reason is that 1 liter of 95 gasolin costs about 1,15 € and 1 kWh of electricity costs 0,2 € when charging at home. I've got kind of efficient PHV (Prius 2020) so even highway driving (130 km/h) costs me no more than 5 € per 100 km. So far 2 500 km costs me 100 € (gas and electric included). Oh and charging of my PHV requires at least 1 hour long stop otherwise it´s just wasting your time with handling the cable.

[@Godmothertycoon]

I am so envious of you oil rich fjeld aber 😊 A Kia Ceed for 430k or an e-tron for 500k? How is that even possible. PHEV does make a lot of sense in Denmark right now from a price standpoint. A fully loaded beautiful Peugeot 508 SW Hybrid is exactly the same price as a SR+ - a lot more luxury, space and tech for the money.

[@SD_Racing]

EVs are tax free here

[@Godmothertycoon]

Sebastian Dahlsveen if only Denmark had kept ekofisk we would be the ones driving around in cheap fossile fuel financed electric cars 😉

[@MichaelEricMenk]

@@Godmothertycoon that's what happens when you play international poker with Germany.. Giving away a large oilfield in the North Sea to Norway in order to get a stronger hand against Germany was not the smartest thing Denmark did..

[@MichaelEricMenk]

@@haveaseatplease New national borders had to be negotiated when the international rules changed for how far out the national control retched out in the see. No test wells were allowed before the bordered were set. So the counties guestimate where the oil was. Denmark wanted the largest parcel possible twords Germany. In order to strengthen their case against Germany, they signed a border deal with Norway with the same method which would give them the greatest sea area against Germany.. They lost the case against Germany, and a large oil field was found in the sector given to Norway.

[@christianheld9720]

Good calculation. Bit how much cheaper is the the Kia or Tesla so it gets more perspective. If the Tesla would cost 8000€ more than it would take years to break even no?

[@luisfernandes4145]

With my DIESEL Citroën C5 lll tourer, I probably would do it with just One tank, 70 liters cap. BUT I would not be faster than an EV if I did travel with wife and sons. I would have to stop every 2 hours or so ( pee and snac stops😁), and at least one hour for proper lunch. If I did travel alone, it would another talk. With family, the travel would be as fast as with the diesel, for sure.

[@OVarlamov]

Luís Fernandes it looks like you have never had to grab that precious "drive while they are sleeping" mode 😀 for me it was some 800km in one go in 6.5h once - no EV is there for quite a few years to come

[@luisfernandes4145]

@@OVarlamov I did 5h once, had to stop for pee! 😁

[@costakis7895]

Ok this is new indeed, but I thought you didn't do phev or hybrid only Bev!?! Anyway this is most welcome Bjorn!!! Just take into account that most people can't afford Bev's yet this is smart move from you, I approve! Also I just ordered a new Corolla 2020 hybrid cause here in Greece Bev's are still sience fiction, on other news Tesla is launching a store in Athens and supercherges are planed!! You are all welcome for pure ev holidays in Greece!!!! Hope Tesla can drag us to the Future!!! This year incentive program is also starting!! Without proper infrastructure!!! I am very excited for the future!!!

[@bjornnyland]

Watch 7:07

[@joTHEgreen]

Why you didn't plug-in to charge the battery when you was eating for 30min?

[@bjornnyland]

Because it only has a 3.5 kW on-board charger. During 30 minutes food stop, I would get 10 km of range which is pointless. And I would have to waste at least 3-4 minutes taking out the cable, plugging in, start/stop the charging. Waste of time.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Our non hybrid gas car is 9 Gallon tank. Less than 300 mile range. Mother in law's giant Kia SUV has a huge tank but you get 18 miles per gallon real world driving in eco mode so again about 300 miles range...

[@martinweston8147]

I have a Kia PHEV on order for my next company car (in the UK), only options on the company list were petrol / Diesel standard ICE or a choice of 2 PHEV the Mini or a Kia Niro, the Niro is the more efficient and best in size for our family, so I went for that. It will save me £2k each year in fuel and tax, so it's the best option. Yes I would much prefer a Model 3 or E-tron but they are double our budget for a company car and so not on the list. I would say around 50% of the journeys (not milage) will be via EV, so its a real good options for many users who have no better option.

[@noproblem386]

oil price is currently low because of the pandemic... the savings will be even higher with the model 3 driven on these temps

[@ronaldusher39]

£0.99 a litre while in lock down the moment lock down ended it went up to over £1.12 a litre

[@RandyTWester]

What I paid for a Model 3 in Alberta Canada would buy 90,000 litres of gasoline, or 409,000 KWh of home electricity, or 200,000 minutes of supercharging. Or a Prius Prime plus enough fuel for a million KM of driving on either fuel or home electricity. (same cost per km)

[@B1605]

Did you touch your nose while using pump terminal? Be careful, you don't know who touched the screen before you :) I know it's beyond control, people don't realize how often they touch their face.

[@kwiat126p3]

Please stop this bs. Everybody in this fast moving world has already met c-disease (we both know what I mean) and we all live well. Yes, some people have left the chat but they’ve been ill already. It’s just the statistics to make you feel scared. Have a nice day

[@Ljuddoktorn]

I have some comments on both the choice of PHV and car owner economics. No, I am Swedish and not anti-EV, I presently own a BMW I3 REX with 200 km electric range. I was seriously into switching to Polestar 2 since I liked the car and the low hatchback concept and I need a towbar. So bear with me. I make mostly short trips about 20-40 km (85-90%), and occasional longer trips. I test drove the Polestar2, a very nice car indeed, and then did my cost calculation before finalizing my order. I checked the charging cost at quick-chargers and note that prices also at 50 kWh are increasing alarmingly only the last year at least in Sweden. The other alarm signal about ownership of an EV is when I look at the remaining depreciation rate of my I3, the value is more than 20% lower between a 2-year and a 3-year old car. I had two options, either a Polestar 2 (or Tesla Y, not 3 since I have a dog) or a PHV Estate (I don't like SUVs). Volvo is too technically complex (the supercharger compressor) and thirsty. BMW 3 Touring is on the horizon but only has a 3.7 kW onboard charger. Mercedes id an interesting alternative. The A250e has a very good electric range and a 7.4 kW charger. The rear compartment is a bit too small for my dog, so I tested a C300e Touring and it was no problem to run 50+ km on battery only. It also has 7.4 kW charger. The battery hump does not mean much to me. The comfort is very good and the energy-saving technology is superb. I also have a sporty summer convertible, a MB C300 2018 model with a 48V mild-hybrid system to recuperate brake energy (6.5-7 l/100km). So occasional long trips will not become too expensive to fuel up. But the main difference is that the C300e (demo vehicle) is more than €20 000 cheaper to buy. Since I drive between 10000-15000 km/year, It will take forever to make the EV cheaper to own. So for persons that can charge at home and mainly do short daily commuting (the majority) PHV is a very good if not the best selection for environmental reasons. But please Björn, try to test a good state of the art PHV next. A 7.4 kW charger makes relaxed dinner stops suitable for topping up battery (about 1.5 h) on the road too. And the issues with brake energy recuperation show that KIA is not leading PHV technology.

[@Ljuddoktorn]

Hi again Björn, If You do not get a MB C300e to test from a Norwegian dealer, You will be welcome to use mine after Sept 20 when I receive the demo car. Tell me if you take this offer.

[@loydens]

Luftmotståndet ökar drastiskt över 70-80km/h så vid 110km/h blir det sällan laddning av nedförsbackar. Jag kör volvo v60 plug-in och den laddar bra när det är kraftigt medlut och jag kör efter 80-90 km/h vägar😊👍

[@SmeekPeek]

If you compare the price with depreciation on the Tesla aswell the Kia would smoke the Tesla in every single way.

[@CrumResearch]

Great to see Bjorn driving PHEV. So many good PHEVs coming out now, like RAV4 Prime and big SUVs like Aviator and XC90. We want a PHEV with a huge high-capacity battery.

[@kaasman78]

Nice control test. Why didn't you use the 'plugin' bit during the trip? You started with a full battery, but the 25 minutes spend in total on a rest room break and ChopChop, the car wasn't plugged in.

[@bjornnyland]

On my first stop, I had a 5 minute restroom break. That would add 1.5 km of range to the battery. But I would waste 3 minutes starting and stopping the charge. The 30 minute ChopChop stop would have added 10 km of range which is pointless.

[@kaasman78]

@@bjornnyland Shiiii, so only 3kW charging! Had to dig for that info on the Kia site. They mentioned 9kWh li-po pack and charging in 3 hours. Yes, very pointless :). If the Kia could DC fast(ish) charge, it could be a little less foolish...but only a little.

[@kjellking5264]

As it is a PLUG-IN Hybrid, why didn't you charge it while you had lunch? Also, you also have to calculate the difference in purchase price of both cars...

[@DG-uv3zw]

Because charging for 20min gives you only few kilometres of range...(maybe 10km but if you accelerate slowly and don`t drive 120km/h ...)

[@kjellking5264]

Dusan Gavrilovic ok that actually makes sense... 👍 But still, like Bjorn always says, always remember your ABC’s, Always Be Charging. But that would have made the trip even more expensive I guess...

[@sakru100]

It also takes little bit of time to find charging spot, put in the cable and start charging. Bjorn wanted to be as fast as possible just for reference

[@bjornnyland]

On my first stop, I had a 5 minute restroom break. That would add 1.5 km of range to the battery. But I would waste 3 minutes starting and stopping the charge. 30 minute ChopChop stop would have added 10 km of range. But I had to park further away MC Donald's and walked over to ChopChop. And the added range in a fossil car is insignificant.