Kia EV6 and Hyundai Ioniq 5 battery overheating explained

[@kasperbirch]

This video is exactly why yours is one of the few EV channels worth following. Your insight is amazing unlike most of the others who just repeat marketing brochures. Thank you for being great!

[@rdumont99]

It would be nice if they put an option in the EV menu: "prioritize comfort / charge speed." Let the user choose whether the HVAC is focused on battery temperature management to ensure fastest charge rates or prioritize cabin temperature and perhaps charge longer. Might be a good interim solution.

[@imaginingistrue4323]

Yeah, it would be fair to know what's going on.

[@JonathanPriceUK]

I’d like the equivalent on my Tesla Powerwall 2! The ability to choose whether to fully charge up during off peak or not … but for some unknown reason Tesla won’t implement it … so quite often we end up using peak rate power in the UK

[@ellistreloar2047]

And this is why I subscribe to your channel and watch 99% of your videos Bjorn. You are the most conscientious EV reviewer in Europe, perhaps on Earth! No wonder manufacturers, owners and the after-market industry respect you. Right on man, keep it up.

[@markharrison4808]

Awesome detective work - I hope that Hyundia/Kia are watching and will reward the post launch testing that Bjørn is doing for them!

[@sergiudan117]

I remember watching the Opel Chief Engineer saying that they've put a massive cooling unit just to prevent the issue presented here from happening. I have also measured in hot summer with 39C outside while charging a CORSA-E with 100 kW(that's 2C charging) that I only had a max of 35C in the 🔋, all of these with the HVAC on. So, thumbs up for the Russelsheim engineers.

[@ngoandrew8]

Good Observation!! Even the manufacturers do not realize this problem

[@mondotv4216]

I guessing this is where the Tesla octovalve comes into it’s own. They can basically redirect heating and cooling as required.

[@aussie2uGA]

I think this is also where Tesla's experience comes into play.

[@felaykasu]

you are the goat holy crap only bjorn could think of something like this. he’s so thorough it’s insane

[@ObserverDingue]

Curiosity + Brains + Sense of Humour + Effort = another excellent video from Bjørn (especially for EV6/Ioniq5 drivers but also general EV interest). Muchas gracias Bjørn! 🙂 Oh, and Hyundai & Kia - you owe Bjørn a generous research fee!

[@johannessteffens8800]

Very helpful! Thank you. Since I'm waiting for a 2022 Ioniq 5, watching your earlier "Rapid Gate" observation got me a bit worried. Your surmise that the cabin heat pump also cools down the batterie during charging, makes a lot of sense. I agree that the software should be a bit more proactive in balancing the two conflicting cooling goals and that passengers should be actively informed what is going on. If you obtain further insights, please share it on your channel. Great work!

[@darekmistrz4364]

The paradox here is that battery is too hot and cabin is too cold for driver. This sounds like easy solution at least in winter, especially that You have heat pump on board. I guess this is where Tesla's octovalve is paying dividends compared to other EVs

[@EV_OBD]

Exactly - there are two coolant loops in EV6. Coolant 1 loop in Car Scanner app runs at 60-70°C and is always close to inverter temperature (80-90°C), while other coolant loop for battery pack is much colder, has identical temperature as Battery heater 1.

[@slartybartfarst9737]

You are right, top class problem solving, as you say no big deal 10 minutes no HVAC, thanks to your detective work we know the simple solution, just the best nerd channel

[@davidpereiro3686]

Bjørn you are forgetting one variable which is key in 800V platforms, the temperature at the charge port pins. We are conditioning everything but the pins and take into account that the car is maintaining so high power for long time. The vehicle is actually monitoring the pin temperatures and that has an effect for sure.

[@JesseGuest]

I live in vegas. Turning off the Air conditioner for even ten minutes is not going to happen when summer temps are always above 100F, and frequently above 110-115. My Ioniq 5 has already failed to charge at least a dozen times using my home EVSE, codes stored included an overtemp at charger coupling.

[@MrEV]

Some top class detective work, Bjorn!

[@Zedilt]

Lots of reports that the Hyundai5/EV6 HVAC is behaving strangely. Hyundai and Kia are apparently looking into it.

[@clivepierce1816]

Excellent - some useful insights here. Can only agree with others here that your reviews are a level above the competition.

[@CarManiac_Chris]

Dear Bjorn - I´ve put the link of your vidoe into my video where I tested the same - more or less. I didn´t check OBD BUT the main topic of my video was the charging speed of the IONIQ 5 for people who can´t charge at home and are driving to the fast charger before or after work. Like this the battery is cold as due to efficiency the car doesn´t warm the battery cells. The result is charging speed at about 60kW - and 40 minutes from 20%-80%. Unfortunatelly I didn´t see your video before I recorded mine as then I would´ve implemented your investigation in my video. But today I did an update with a #short video and when the battery is cold the HVAC OFF doesn´t help at all unfortunatelly. At 33% and even at 51% nothing changed about the 60kW - doesn´t matter if HVAC was ON or OFF. So this only helps when you were driving certain km on the highway or accelerated fast and slowed down again and again to gain temperature. But even 120km/h on a german Autobahn didn´t help the car charging faster than about 80kW... I´ve linked your videos in both of my videos. Thank you for the detailed testings!!! Chris

[@d.r.6587]

Hallo Chris, na das nenne ich ja mal einen guten Zug von Dir und zeigt mir das Du doch auch andere um Rat fragen kannst, Respekt ! Wenn ich auf Deinem Kanal den einen oder anderen Spruch gelassen habe dann möchte ich mich hiermit bei Dir entschuldigen ! Vielleicht kann er ja doch noch den einen Tip geben!

[@anttiong436]

Bjørn dust starts to burn in HVAC systems at 52C. That is why the max air temperature in any form of airflow heating systems is 52C. At the time you started to smell it, the battery max temp was 53C. It is clear indication that battery cooling/heating and cabin cooling/heating are directly connected.

[@anttiong436]

Due to dust pyrolysis you start to notice the associated smells at 52C. When you turn on the electric panel heater or oil panel heater first time in the winter, after it has been collecting dust over the summer, you know the smell. Same thing happens in the ducts once the temperature exceeds mentioned threshold.

[@audiofileptyltd5485]

Thanks for your fun and informative videos. I love watching the landscapes in Norway. So different to Sydney where I live. I just got an Ioniq 5 about two weeks ago and get the following message when I charge : “Using climate functions while the battery is charging will delay charging completion” unfortunately there are no 350kw chargers near me so I have no opportunity to test like you have. It does seems logical that battery thermal management would be compromised if the HVAC system has to perform dual functions.

[@Sir_Surfalot]

If you do want to test, probably the closest/easiest 350kW chargers for most people in Sydney are the Evie ones at the Ampol service station at Seven Hills, about 1km from where the M2 and M7 motorways join.

[@HerrGrille]

I don‘t care about the 500 watts. Even if it will be triple I would not mind. I priotize the fast charging higher than the efficiency. Thanks so much Björn! Such a splendid piece of advice!

[@ramy6286]

I watched my of your videos as well as other people, I always find your more technical and helpful. well done, you see to know your stuff and take your time to capture good information. Good detective work and other European journalists should take notes and learn from you.

[@LAndrewsChannel]

In winter, shouldn't the heat pump move the heat from the battery to the cabin to heat it and cool down the battery in turn?

[@bjornnyland]

Yes

[@ruprechtkroenen2665]

@@bjornnyland can it helps if i set the temp for cabin to 38 ° with open windows ?

[@averagesimguy598]

Then you get coldgate, double edged sword

[@larsjrgensen5975]

You could run into battery not hot enough problem, the heatpump tries to heat up cabin and battery at the same time. The very efficient Tesla 3 SR needs a lot of time preheating sometimes if the weather is cold and the drive is economical.

[@LAndrewsChannel]

@AverageSimGuy I think slower charge is better than overhearing the battery although the on-board computer should be able to balance heating the cabin with cooling the battery so the battery temperature is just right.

[@thomasjensen2769]

Best tech video you have done in a long time :)

[@gp2003gt]

Thank you Bjorn, well done, it all makes sense after your explanation.

[@SongSong415]

I am waiting for the German Model Y and meanwhile also considering EV6, because price wise this is the only EV that has quite a margin with Model Y but functionally on the same level as Model Y. Your videos are really my guide now! so please publish more findings! thanks a lot man

[@uhjyuff2095]

Model Y is quicker car than the Kia, I could be wrong.

[@Bultish]

cant wait for the next testdrive implementing these strategies =D Awesome job!

[@philherb3843]

@5:55 you can see the "Battery heater 1 temperature" going down again (HVAC off), while still climbing on HVAC on. You need a Temperature delta between battery and cooling fluid to transport the heat outside. If the delta is small, you have to increase the amount of cooling (half delta = double the fluid circle). So if the fluid pumps are running on max on both sides, the temperature flow on the right side is limited because of the smaller delta. So the battery current is reduced to have less heat. Battery temperature is nearly the same, amout of heat going to the radiator is really different.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

They should (A) "harmonize" temperatures first. 10degC between min-max cell is too much. Min.temp BMS watching for coldgate and max.temp for rapid gate.. With 10degC diff is very hard too keep battery in optimal range. (B) after cell "harmominization" prepare (warmup or cool down) battery to 25-26degC. In range 0-53% SOC is 25degC first optimal temperature for full speed and there is then a lot of time to keep battery far from first rapid gate.

[@Infinion]

It could be a good argument if 'harmonizing' the cell temps leads to a time savings between 10-80%. That being said, I don't think it would, because in order to harmonize, the temperature difference between the coolant and the min and max temp cells would be small, leading to not a lot of heat flow, and a lot of waiting. After all, their coolant only flows in one serial loop, no way to independently heat colder sections. at SoC = 70 in the spreadsheet, you can see that the coolant has nearly a 20ºC difference between itself and the hottest cell, and this would produce fastest cooling because the temperature difference is maximized to allow heat to be rejected by the cells.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

​@@Infinion I have Niro. When it is outside temp 0degC. Module 2 (coolant input from outside) .. you can see how MO2 is cooled with water (cooled by outside air) if pump is off .. And all Kia/Hyundai have by my option bug, that they are using LTR mode in very cold weather .. Example.. yesterday .. battery 1-2degC. motor 3degC, outside temp 1degC and they enabled LTR (over motor).. Extreme cases... outside -12deg, motor -12C, coolant 1C, battery 20C (i have video with diagnostic data from this case).. again LTR and after 60kilometers is battery cooled to coldgate level 2 !!! 7-10degC. Why they cool it from optimal 20C !!!? And again MO2 (is much coolder) than last module.... This is very bad logic !

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@Infinion Back to EV6 ... optimal charging speed is for range 0..53% soc .. >=25 and < 45 deg C (230kW) .. So if you have cell min/max with 9-16degC range, you have very small space to maneuvers in optimal range.. If you come to charger with min 25 a max 35 , you have only 10 degC to rapid gate. Harmonization should be done on the road during drive .. there is a time for it . For SOC 53->73% is optimal range only >= 35 and < 50degC... so here is very small/no space if min/max cell differences is 11-16degC..

[@Infinion]

@@evRoadTripsSvk I agree with everything you said, it should be equalized while on the road. It would consume more energy for thermal management but I assume that would be only if it knew it was on the way to a fast charger, not all the time. Worst case is when it doesn't know it's going to a fast charger and it has to start charging with the unequal cell temperatures. I would like to ask, why there is such a large temperature inbalance to begin with? The pump's presumably inadequate flow rate is allowing the coolant to heat up as it travels through the modules. All the cells are identical there should be no reason for such deviation besides what is happening to the coolant temperature. regarding your Niro, yeah I don't understand the poor thermal energy management of these vehicles. They are blindly cooling and not regulating. It's such fundamental systems engineering design. Maybe they dont care about performance and want to maximize energy efficiency? Even so there should be some user control so that user can choose to pay more electricity for optimal battery performance.

[@uhjyuff2095]

Battery pack defect. The pack will probably not last too long.

[@bidonga]

Thank you. I’m about to order the EV6 and it’s nice to know these things. Much appreciated.

[@carloscasais1805]

Great stuff Bjorn! Congrats once more!

[@carinos4]

Many thanks for your detailed review. I am living in a country where summer gets really hot. Sometimes can hit 45C. I consider buying ioniq 5. My concern following your video, is the poor battery colling system. Assuming that i have parked ioniq 5 to uncovered parking, exposed to sun, would that cause battery damage and reduce the battery state of health? So if not ioniq 5, what are the best alternatives for this budget?

[@chriauc2976]

Tesla you know it pay f For what you get

[@TheEzserg]

It is exactly what I have always said, the competitors of Tesla have to be better or similar than the Tesla car, otherwise it will not be a competition for Tesla. KIA EV6 I think it will have a basic value of 45K up to 60K here in the US. An amount of money for a car that can see the possibility of the batteries heating up and catching fire, and even you can lose your life, I am saying this for the KIA only. If you are thinking of having an electric car regardless of the brand of car, do not buy it, if you can make a lease in my opinion it is better. Remember that technology is changing day by day. Good review, my friend.

[@josephj6521]

Well said. Not only battery issues but the simple things like the lack of OTA updates of non-Tesla vehicles and the stupid need to go into a dealership for a “service” every year to get software updates. Plus, no other manufacturer offers the ability to climatize the interior remotely. Tesla does it all and there is no comparison.

[@josephj6521]

@@abraxastulammo9940 which other manufacturer does this apart from Tesla?

[@BuntaBall40]

Great work mate. You are the Ninja of EVs

[@EV-olution]

This is a fantastic analysis and if you are correct then you are right, 10 minutes is not a big deal to turn off the HVAC, but Kia and Hyundai should update the software to adjust for the for the issue in the winter and notify the user about prioritizing battery cooling in the summer. It is for such a short period that it won't really matter to the user. Thanks for this video.

[@uhjyuff2095]

in my opinion, the software is programmed fine, but Kia should instead post a message "charging reduced to keep cabin cool/warm" if computer detects a overheated battery while HVAC is on!!!

[@EV-olution]

@@uhjyuff2095 in the winter the lack of preconditioning is not good and slows the charging rate considerably. Hyundai and Kia know about it and has actually corrected the issue in the 2023 Ioniq 5 and EV6 by adding the preconditioning feature that is in the GV60. I do, however, agree that there should be a notification on the screen that tells the user what is being done. This way there would be less guessing.

[@MartinPedersenTM]

Interresting. You can see on the HVAC Off, that the Battery "Heater" starts dropping like a piano around 65%. Maybe it turns off radiator circulations, and kicks in the HVAC pump to cool the batteries. The HVAC On just continues to rise in temperature.

[@phonehoppy]

The same problem has been documented by other users in other videos, too. For example, the IONIQ 5 at "E-Cannonball" in Germany had the same issue.

[@martymar7465]

Good job Bjorn 👏

[@CheungD99]

Thanks Professor Bjorn!

[@jeroenislego]

Hi Bjorn, this is an amazing video. I learned a lot, thank you!

[@asbj77]

這個影片介紹了Kia EV6和Hyundai Ioniq 5充電時過熱的原因，並提供了解決方法。在瑞典進行1000公里的挑戰時，Ioniq 5的電池過熱，許多人認為是車子或電池有問題。作者向Hyundai詢問是否有問題，但幾週過去了，並未得到回覆。作者推測車子沒有問題，而問題可能在於HVAC（暖通空調）系統。作者以BMW i3為例，當車輛開著HVAC系統時，充電時電池無法冷卻，反而會過熱。作者發現特斯拉在充電時優先考慮電池的冷卻，並提供專門的HVAC系統。作者認為，Ioniq 5和Kia EV6也有類似的問題，並提供解決方案：冬天充電時不要使用HVAC系統。

[@nachocollantes7602]

Ninja viking for the win. Good one Bjorn, very interesting.

[@mathewrussell1533]

30c hot? laughs in Australian hehehehe. I get what your meaning though. The Tesla roars its head off when using supercharger or 350kw charger in +30c weather. Always concerned me with the Ioniq 38kw that it never had AC cooling just liquid cooling with heat exchanger. Charging at 40c ambient it throttled at 33kw. Hope Hyundai/Kia took the time to get it right with the Ioniq 5/EV6

[@ralfferfi2860]

I recognized the same in the IoniQ 38kWh Version. I will double check it in the next charging time

[@EtienneSavardz]

Around 80% its a security check Hyundai engineers added in the BMS. It was added first on the Kona EV to reduce battery fire risks : if something is wrong with the battery, EV! triangle Will appears and you then have to take the car on the towing... Seems that they reused that on Ioniq 5 BMS! It has been observed many times on Kona EV using OBD2.

[@steinandersen6648]

Excellent Ninja research Bjørn. Now lets see if Hyundai Kia looks into Hvac. They also need to equal the cell temps more

[@xmtxx]

Thanks for the video, those analysis amaze me. I know it's deep engineering cost cutting, or ICE engineering heritage (IE we don't care about energy at all). But the fact that you can't heat your car with your overheating battery, really amaze me (in the wrong way). I can't imagine how efficient the heat pump would be if it's inlet temp was around 40 degree, instead of the 1 degree of the outside temperature. What a waste (of energy). Guys, Tesla is already doing it, just copy them without thinking, your cars will be better.

[@nickieredshaw7835]

Thanks for another great video update

[@luowaoy7277]

Just to remind, turning heating off for 10 minutes is only needed if you want absolute maximum charging speed AND stay in the car AND are using over 150kW charger. Normal users probably just go get coffee inside, so all heating/cooling is dedicated to battery anyways. Also prioritizing the cabin cooling is very important to dog-owners. I will take longer charging over dead dog 😅

[@luowaoy7277]

@@abraxastulammo9940 Well, nothing stopping that in other cars, your cabin is just right temperature while watching Netflix in Ioniq5 😅

[@therandomtester9561]

Look at Battery Heater 1 temp @ 5:50 HVAC off it starts to drop, while HVAC on it continues to climb, and thats when the kW suddenly drops with HVAC on. So as you say, it looks to reduce not because of temperature, but because of control.

[@Tanel3]

Thanks, very interesting thoughts and test. One idea though, in Hyundai and Kia EV-s you can manually and separately turn "AC" and "Heat" on and off. If it is as I have understood - AC is for heat pump and Heat for PTC heater, then you could try to test so that you turn "AC" off in the car and "Heat" on while charging and see if it has any effect?

[@nicklastrygg2919]

Yes that was my question as well. As I understand it there i a "heat" button on the climate controls. would it make the same difference if that was ser to "off" while charging?

[@gyuris_video_emporium]

Really enjoying your content. Have you heard of Hyundai's cold battery issue? Looks like customers in Germany are complaining about slow charging (e.g. 60kw max charging) and it looks like the battery is too cold when driving shorter trips / driving slower. Look at Car mainiac's vid. Looks like Hyundai didn't priorities active battery cooling & heating.

[@carroux4050]

I don't get it. Comparisson shows almost same Battery Temps but still one is way faster than the other. If it's temp related: shouldnt be both throtteled? Example: 6:03. Both are at 50°, similuar State of Charge (65 vs 62). At 51° HVAC drops significantly. A few seconds later HVAC off reaches 51° as well but does not drop...

[@bjornnyland]

Look at the graphs. The reason why the temps are the same is because the speed is way lower on the slow session.

[@GreenDriveIndia]

51c -That's not battery temp

[@GreenDriveIndia]

See battery heater1 and min temp

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@GreenDriveIndia PTC heater (sensor) is only ambient temperature (ptc&cooling water). Car in short loop cooling down temperature via HVAC, but PTC is on this loop together with cooling radiator (HVAC). PTC sensor gets temp from cooling water. Bat min temp on battery input was 40degC, and output from battery 51degC. Should help to switch pump to reverse mode :-D

[@richh650]

Excellent explanation video sir!

[@allisterbullock213]

IIRC all cars have to be able to demist the Windscreen in a certain amount of time. It would therefore be likely a PTC is used for that purpose should the battery be cold or the battery waste heat not being recycled to the cabin. Therefore Bjørn you could perhaps switch off the HVAC when fast charging and instead run the Windscreen demist to keep the cabin warm (albeit a little noisier). What do you think?

[@bjornnyland]

Sounds like a good idea. But clumsy.

[@raizxie]

@11:22 Hello Nyland, if I may, could I ask how to get this excel format data and temperatures of batteries? That would be very help to my recently research, and I am very appreciated for your help!

[@JonathanPriceUK]

So what should we expect for an EV6 without a heat pump in this case? Similar behaviour but not able to cool as quickly… or something else?

[@therasmusdotdk]

Brilliant. Thank you from an Ioniq 5 owner. The car unfortunately has a lot of clumsy design.

[@oskarzgoa8428]

What an investigation! 🧐 Wow

[@jurgen71s55]

I think there is a step in the thermal control Calibration @45^C with a Hysterese. The Energy is used to Not overheat. And the another grid point is @50^C. For the Minimum you have identified the 25^C grid point of the Calibration map.

[@JeffMarraccini]

Thank you for the great analysis and easy-to-follow solution!

[@rsdwall466]

Any chance that stormberg starts international delivery ?

[@stigeri]

Great vid Bjørn. Would be interesting if you are able to plot the SoC vs time for HVAC / non-HVAC to see the difference in time spent charging aswell.

[@IhsanDogan]

I've supercharged my Model X last summer while the outside temperature was at 40 degrees celcius. It was absolutely no problem for the air conditioining.

[@manowaari]

Very interesting topic, hopefully you might bring this case up with Kia/Hyundai people if have a change.

[@Snowponys]

Easiest way is just to not sit in the car, go outside and have a coffe then there isn't any need to have the AC on while charging. In winter, go inside the gas station for a few minutes :)

[@skyfox77]

I think most people actually will go outside when charging, but it is still a bit of a bummer that It behaves this way. BUT, maybe not everyone will charge at a 250kW+ charger, then there might not even be a problem :)

[@tyronenelson9124]

Ok so what if 20 people turned up in an electric car and had the same idea, then you will have an overcrowded gas station.

[@bjornnyland]

If you actually look at a supercharger or Ionity site, you will realize that many people sit in their cars.

[@MesoScale]

Those tipps are like OR you simply carry around an ice bucket with you all the time, that you toss on your head outside once you fastcharge then, after a few minutes get in your cold car again --boom feels amazing. Problem solved.

[@bbpleg]

When you did your previous comparison video of the Kia EV6, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Audi E-tron and Tesla, were the HVAC systems on or off?

[@bjornnyland]

All off

[@andrimnerN1]

Thx björn!! Going to turn off ac while i charge.

[@WelcomeToDERPLAND]

Hey Bjorn, I heard they are working on making a new version of the Ioniq 5 as well, slated for 2023, do you know anything about that?

[@TheE2X]

Did you have the car in the eco mode when you charged it? Meybe that is the reason that the car did not use the ptc heater in the beginning of your session and waited to use the heat pump to cool the battery. Can you try to rapid gate again but with the car not in Eco mode this time. I do not like there is 18 degrees between the cold and warm cells. If the car is circulating the cooling fluid the same way all the time, the temperature difference could result in a fast degrading battery because the cell is degrading in a different pace due to the different temperature and stress if the battery cell at cell level is different temperatures. Let's hope it's because different placement of the sensors and not that the cells is so uneven cooled/heated. Meybe this also are affected by the eco mode due to the car is running the fluid pump for the battery slow in eco mode to conserve energy (this would be stupid to save energy running the pumps slowly, I am just thinking loud here) I like your videos and your test. you are performing one of the best electric car test, and people there is saying anything else are haters. I am a Tesla model 3 2021 owner from Denmark. But I still watch your videos about others cars. Yes I am a geek, but today it's cool to be a geek 😊

[@hape4]

Very clever thinking, you are like the Sherlock Holmes of EV. As long as you know how to avoid the rapid gate or cool gate it seems to be manageable. But a lot of people simply don’t know so it is a clumsy design from such a competent company. Now I’m thinking, while you drive the car, HVAC is presumably always on and could this be the cause that the battery wasn’t pre heated, even in winter mode like you experienced?

[@jghall00]

That temperature variance between cells is worrisome. Couldn't it cause differential degradation? These cars are too expensive to turn into to Leafs (Leaves?).

[@darekmistrz4364]

I agree, those batteries will be toast pretty quickly. I guess that's the "price" you have to pay

[@samusaran7317]

​@@darekmistrz4364I guess time will tell. Might be a good used buy dirt cheap eventually

[@Fam.Pedersen]

That is also happening if you have 2 indoor units on a house installation. The system can only do heat or cool. So if one indoor unit is demanding heat and the second cool the the second will wait and just circulate air. So you are spott onn with your assumption.

[@riccardomarinoni6733]

My dad bought the eqc, is the same in the picture, very bad range software issue, now we have a Kona electric

[@MagivaIT]

use the heated seats when cold climate and charging, leave hvac for the battery....

[@dasunikat1534]

Can I still use Heated/cooled seats without slowing down the charging process?

[@lknight5579]

Can I put the heated seats on when I switch off the HVAC? I mean I know that I can, but will it muck up your fix?

[@kevinhourigan111]

Just thinking the same thing. Also some models have ventilated seat.

[@thomasrider5852]

So I live in the Arizona (USA) desert where its 115-120 degrees in the summer. I wonder what would happen as ambient air temp is already at max temps for battery cooling

[@palusisko]

Perfect analysis, thank you! Have you ever met such rapidgate in Kona or Niro? Can rapidgate happen in IDx?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Rapid gate in Kona/Niro is only "1 level" .. and only in main phase 0..53% soc ... If battery max.temp reach 35degC charging power is limited from 200A (75kW) to 180A (~69kW) .. Other phases (above 53% soc) are without rapid gate. So there is rapidgate almost OK. Here in Ioniq5 / EV6 is rapid with more temperature "levels". Cold&rapid is basic battery protection - is ok. But car should prepare battery (preheating/precooling/cell temp hamonization) on demand on the road to prevent it.. And this is still problem with Hyundai Kia (kona/niro/ev6/ioniq5). For example 2degC outside - Niro/Kona is cooling battery with LTR mode battery in optimal 20-25degC over cold inverter/motor down to 7-10degC. VW ID3 is keeping optimal temperature.

[@radekwronski1650]

This should help. There is one more problem to solve - too high difference between min and max temperature. This is the primary reason of all problems. You need to warm up the min to avoid coldgate but then the max gets too hot because of that and you get rapidgate. If Kia could just circulate the coolant before charging or just anytime the delta gets too high and bring both temperatures closer to the average there would be less heating/cooling required and less problems resulting from that.

[@Infinion]

Here's another thought, if you will. Maybe the cooling is just insufficient. If the hottest cells are up to 10º higher at the outlet, the working fluid probably needs to be pumped faster to reduce the inlet/outlet temperature difference. The design could also be changed to allow coolant flow in parallel rather than sequentially from module to module, but i imagine that would add weight and complexity.

[@radekwronski1650]

@@Infinion Yes - increasing the flow should be considered. Another idea - reversible flow: applying cooling to the hottest cells first and heating to the coldest ones first.

[@ralfferfi2860]

Maybe the winte setting of the car is also only working if your switching of HVAC? So far nobody recognized a difference between winter mode set on or off.

[@dontswitch8951]

Wow. This really explains the coldgate I experienced.

[@dontswitch8951]

(and now I know it's not really a cold but a rapid gate 🤣)

[@dontswitch8951]

I will definitely try this!

[@instanoodles]

When charging set the car to front window defrost and heat. That makes the heat pump switch to AC mode for defrost which forces the car to heat with the PTC heater.

[@capitanocorelli1781]

So if I understand you, if you want heat in the car in the winter while charging, force the AC inverter on with defrost and the resistive heater will kick in. That way you are using a heater consuming only approx. 1.5 kW. This simple act will free up the heat-pump cabin heater and dedicate the heat pump to maintain battery temperature while charging. Thereby allowing a charge rate perhaps 100kW faster for much longer?? Absolute genius, I cannot wait to see if it works!

[@GreatCreative]

This is incredibly insightful, but what about the broader comparison to ICE vehicles? In an ICE vehicle, you stand at the pump in the cold and snow - or the summer heat. You can't shelter from the elements. So score one for the EV - no matter how the charging time is effected. Of course, I don't run the HVAC in my EV while charging. In summer, I like to roll down the windows, and in winter, I'm just happy to be indoors in inclement weather. Though most times, I go for a walk or run to stretch my legs and take a break from driving while the car charges.

[@mathew-ls]

Teslas with heat pump have the octovalve which super intelligent heat management, there are a couple of videos explaining all the modes

[@bilgyno1]

I think the issue still stands that in cold conditions the battery will be too cold when arriving at the HPC, causing a relatively slow ramp up of the charging power and also a lower top of the curve. In that case, it helps to turn off the cabin heating altogether during the charging session. And you can consider to turn it off a little while before you arrive at the HPC. For most people and most of the time, the way that Hyundai/Kia have designed it is the best solution. It saves range and makes the cabin heating more efficient, while charging at home or the office occurs mostly at 11 kW anyway. It only hinders the use of HPC chargers in cold conditions. Still, it should be solved with a software update, so that it stops scavenging heat from the battery and uses the PTC heater for the cabin when approaching the HPC. Or give users the choice with a 30 minute 'Prepare Battery for HPC session' button in the climate settings. As for the PTC heater: in the Ioniq 5 it does turn on directly when you start the car (the typical smell of a resistive heater is undeniable). Strange that it would be different for the Kia EV6.

[@uhjyuff2095]

It seems the cold battery fast charging speed is far better than the Hot battery fast charging speed. KEEP THE BATTERY COLD!

[@samusaran7317]

​@@uhjyuff2095EVs need a precooling/preheating button. Being able to manually adjust the charge rate would be another level

[@Marbellous]

It's sad that car buyers don't get this kind of information with the car. It can't even be asked because most probably there is no answer. It's a problem in the car industry that there's no tools for communication between the end-customer and the manufacturer. There shouldn't be this kind of high-nerd stuff to know something this important. Thanks for the tests!

[@darekmistrz4364]

There is, it's the price. Tesla isn't that much more expensive, but they are trying to do EV as best as they can, and they already solved this issues years ago.

[@Jaw0lf]

Well investigated and a great discovery. Interesting how much difference it makes. Will this be worth checking in all EV's now?

[@bitsabe]

were the charge voltages 800v?

[@Gaijin101]

Future ev6 owners thank you

[@zenon20911]

He is a true ninja. I even think Bjorn just sold hundreds of EV6/I5 with this explanation.. so if he shall never see a reply from Hyundai engineers, the HR office should pay him off at least... :)

[@TheHammaJoe]

Put in another heatpump for the extreme spikes? Maybe as an Option for those with max speed ambitions... if you can i would like to see how the cooling tecnically differs from the compeditiors

[@stevewise1656]

KIA and Hyundai the kings of recalls and lack of reliability. I say this as a soon to he former KIA owner.

[@computerbob06]

I thought in the original Ioniq 28kwh they got rid of the heat from the battery out of the right rear wheel arch? But also (with no battery cooling) used a vent under the rear seat to cool/heat the battery from the interior air? Why they can't dump the waste heat out of a vent but also vent the interior air to the battery for heating/cooling it and vise versa? Thus would be on top of them battery coolant/heating fluid and heart pump but wouldn't take power away from charging or HVAC!? Maybe, also, Bjorn could perform a test in January when there's snow around and warm the interior when charging to start a mini rapid gate then jump out and shovel snow under the car?

[@ArtiePenguin1]

Great video Bjorn! I'm thinking of buying an EV6 but I live in a very hot climate in the Southwestern US (summer highs consistently 35-40°C). Is there any way you can do a test of the EV6 or Ioniq 5 DCFC on a hot summer day? I haven't been able to find any other KZbinrs using OBD2 data when charging an EV6 or Ioniq 5. Thanks!

[@uhjyuff2095]

turn HVAC off and get the best possible charging speed. It would be interesting if Kia has two a/c units to cool the battery!

[@stevencastellanos8063]

I can't wait to see you test the Mach-E GT! Apparently you only get 5 seconds of full power!?! Ford says it's to protect the battery. I guess the BMS isn't too good??

[@pdcsqvpc4620]

It would be nice to be able to pre-heat the battery at 25°C before arriving at the charger. Because obviously the curve with the HVAC off shows a loss of charging power at the beginning.

[@ME-cb1vw]

IONIQ 38kWh sucks heat from the battery for heating the cabin using heatpump. Electric Dave had constant coldgate during his northcape trip because of this. Why don't they do this with EGMP cars?

[@Schmiddko]

This is a really interesting topic, because most of the ioniq 5 don´t get a bat Temp mor than 25°C, in cold weather not even 20°C! so ist mostly chargegate due to extrem cold battery. the battery heater oder wintermode doesn´t do anything

[@ZEFElectric]

Hi Bjorn. I noticed something similar this summer on my 2021 M3 LR with heat pump - at 45% SOC I was barely getting 45kW - (I sent you another comment with a link where I document that experience). In my case, there was no message about low performance cooling of the cabin. I assume this is happening on most cars with heat pumps that share HVAC between cabin and battery. Good catch!

[@outbackev-hunter6035]

Ok... I live in the desert so always have troubles with heat however when the outside Temps are 0 to 1.5 degrees why are you having issues with extracting heat?..1 Is there no Liquid cooling in the pack? 2. if no LC, There must be a bottle neck in the heat pump?