Kinzigtalbahn (Frankfurt to Fulda) review ~ Train Sim World 5

[@DC4260Productions]

This is the forum thread I was referring to at 19:30 forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsw5-%E2%80%93-post-release-patch-3-%E2%80%93-update-notes.86155/?_ga=2.43758757.1435737952.1728984113-371357345.1727157071

[@StrikeEagle78]

The irony of ripping off customers with a high priced Flixtrain for what is essentially a low cost carrier train company. Way to go DTG 🤦

[@brianbosch3628]

Yeah, absolutely, but most people still go for the original, including myself, as it's much more comfortable.

[@squelchedotter]

It's not even that popular among railfans. It feels more like an ad than something anyone genuinely wanted.

[@potatoman451]

​@@squelchedotterplayers always want more companies and different colors in the game. Would you rather never have flixtrain in tsw?

[@DC4260Productions]

Having FlixTrain in the game is still a good thing, to an extent, but that doesn't mean it's immune to criticism.

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​​@@potatoman451That doesn't mean it is immune from criticism. It only adds 6 services. It should've been included with the base route.

[@trainformerd4134]

The flix train ticket prices are probably cheaper than TSW5 DLC

[@schienennahverkehrDE]

they are

[@jonasbachmann8571]

The double-decker coaches are basically used everywhere in Germany where no EMUs or DMUs are used. At least for the Kinzigtalbahn, Dresden-Riesa and Dresden-Chemnitz there usage is accurately depicted (althougt sometimes outdated). I dont know about the other routes. Considering the BR 114: they are just rebranded BR 112.0. When they came to DB Regio they where renamed to avoid confusion with the ones that stayed at DB Fernverkehr (BR 112.1 with smaller Headlights and LZB, Hamburg-Lübeck) I still get your criticism and agree with a lot of points, just wanted to clarify why the usage of some rolling stock, althought seaming lazy, is actually realistic.

[@mikeblatzheim2797]

With the Dostos though there is a huge variety, which were (mostly) modeled in TS Classic, but is missing in TSW. The Dosto '07 should also be available with high-entry doors with second and combined class coaches. The Dosto '03 is arguably the most common type of Dosto, and is missing completely. Dostos '97 are also missing, and have a different carbody profile. Their cab cars are also the only ones compatible with the Br 143.

[@sebonator3000]

Same with the BR 185.2, it's also used everywhere in Germany

[@VieleGuteFahrer]

I‘m familiar with this route in real life and the inaccuracies bug me the most (as well as the linearity of the route and the crashes). Most of these inaccuracies stem from the issue that Dovetail Games keeps recycling locomotives and selling them as something new instead of releasing brand-new stuff. This route would‘ve been much more enjoyable for me if the S-Bahn trains were accurate. The BR 423 pretty much never runs on lines S8 and S9, the BR 430 does. And unlike the Munich S-Bahn, the Rhine-Main S-Bahn features different classes in its trains, 1st and 2nd class. HLB, a third-party operator owned by the state of Hesse, has been running RB58 and RE59 services since 2018 (the same year the route is set in). Both lines use the route north of the Main (which is present in the game, by the way) to reach Frankfurt Süd and Hanau Hbf, respectively before continuing to either the Airport/Opelwerk or Aschaffenburg/Laufach. The Odenwaldbahn services have been operated by VIAS Rail with unique Itino trainsets since 2005. They‘ve acquired Lint trainsets more recently. So, the DB Regio Westfrankenbahn trains are completely out of place.

[@Halozocker104]

This. They have already co firmed the first dlc for tsw5- which comes with yet again recycled german locos.

[@TB76Returns]

Ich glaube das DTG hat für die HLB und VIAS Rail keine lizenzirung....bedauerlich, aber nicht überraschend

[@Guy-Zero]

@@TB76Returns Ja haben sie halt noch nicht. Aber hätten sie ja erwerben können (wie sie das auch mit Flixtrain gemacht haben) um akkuratere AI Services zu haben. Dann sehe auch der Hbf nicht so monoton aus mit nur DB Zeug

[@potatoman451]

​@@Halozocker104if the trains run there in real life, then there's no issue creating those trains. Eventually they are going to run out of trains to make

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​​@@potatoman451There are plenty of trains in Germany that they can make. They choose to make routes that have reused rolling stock. They are perfectly capable of making something new. But of course you will just make excuses as usual

[@spartan117zm]

Inaccuracies aside, this is, imo, the best new route in the game, and probably the second best German route after Dresden, purely because of how much variety there is and how the route actually feels like it has significant life to it, compared to many of the other TSW routes that feel generally dead.

[@Giustiziappenanata]

You can’t beat Dresden, especially the RE18 and the 3 carriage S-bahn

[@TB76Returns]

The performance issues do let the route down, but it is otherwise okay, if the Rhein-Main 423s had at least the correct inverter sounds, the BR 146.2 sounds were redone (and I just downloaded a mod for that), that would at least be a small improvement. I have a decent computer that handles TSW well, even I still get issues with the performance.

[@potatoman451]

Limited budget and time I'm assuming

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​@potatoman451 Oh please. It's a core route. They could've made the correct sounds but choose not to.

[@KirillShore]

"Well once you upgrade it's yours to keep forever" - DTG's response to a review for TSW5 I saw on steam. WELL GUESS WHAT, WATER IS WET!

[@StrikeEagle78]

@@KirillShore If they were honest, they'd continue that statement with "Support however will end in 11 months when we abandon this thing for a "new" (wink wink) numbered version".

[@lucasstocker5055]

From two patches ago the BR 218 has completely vanished from the route and is no longer selectable for timetables… If you wander why you can operate S-Bahn services only between Hanau Hbf and Offenbach Ost,, start the S9 service (35911) from Offenbach Ost, leave the train and take the S2 train on platform 3 as a passenger (at the moment you can’t spawn by foot at Offenbach Ost for some reason…). You’re gonna see all the undone S-Bahn portion of the route, that doesn’t make the scenery of the route look good but it’s quite fit for Halloween… TL,DR: the route is more messy than what you think 😉.

[@EuropeanRailfan-AM]

I noticed both the DB and Flixtrain 193s have the same numbering of the Railpool 193. This is wrong, as the DB 193s are numbered in the 300s, while the Flixtrain 193s are numbered in the 800s.

[@supermarionathan1426]

A missed opportunity in the Flixtrain add on is including the Taurus locomotive. Why did DTG not include the Taurus along with the Vectron? The Taurus also runs in Flixtrain livery and runs the passenger services alongside the Vectron! Bundling the Taurus would’ve made the add on (somewhat) better value for money! It’s the same mistake that Skyhook made with their ScotRail 158 DLC as they didn’t bundle in the ScotRail HST in that add on as well! As for the route itself it’s decent for me at least and I do like driving the DB BR 411 ICE T as well! Although considering I’ve been to Frankfurt Hbf irl, DTG should’ve modeled the station entrance/concourse with more detail.

[@potatoman451]

Oh so do you want even worse performance? More detail = worse performance and less time spent elsewhere to fit budget and deadlines They don't have all the time and budget in the world

[@DC4260Productions]

The way you worded that question makes it sound like you expect people to shut up and just accept things for how they are. I'm sorry, but it doesn't work like that.

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​​That’s not true though. We have routes that have high detail and run just fine. Once again, you are trying to make excuses for DTG falling short.

[@alexdebrew3132]

@@potatoman451 They do have the time and budget, no one asked them for another title release, they're just greedy.

[@gtasandman]

@@potatoman451 "Oh so do you want even worse performance?" as if you cant use the taurus on the route already, having a flx train version isnt going to impact anymore than the mrce version does. They could even just let you sub in the mrce version seeing as it was used before they renamed to beacon.

[@squelchedotter]

Having ridden that sbahn a lot, those 423 interiors and sounds are *egregious* wow. It's especially frustrating because those units are _famous_ for their traction sound. The 423 doesn't even really run that much there. It's usually 430. So glad I didn't buy this, I would have been so disappointed.

[@Westlondontransportguy7045]

Me personally I would rather stay with the uk routes like London to Brighton and the Bakerloo line and not lines like Peterborough to Doncaster

[@jackweinborn7907]

You just keep getting better and better. Easy for me to say, as you pull your hair out. You have to admit it, you luv all this. Do me a favor and just keep savin a lot of people money, unlike the DTG suck ups. Keep it up and smile, you are doing the right things.

[@floha978]

I agree with you in about every point and I want to add that also the tilting safety system of the br 411 is either bugged or works completely different compared to the one of the br 612. Like the 612 shows the new speed limit on a screen but nothing to see in the 411. Also, the system starts braking my train, even if I am under an upcoming speed limit I want to mention that the mistake is with a 90% chance not mine, because I can handle the 612 with GST and GNT quite well..

[@StrikeEagle78]

With regards to your question as to why DTG reused the same old 423, I would like to field this question. Laziness, that's why. Laziness.

[@JessicaKasumi1990]

@@StrikeEagle78 You know, they in someways are almost as scummy as EA. At least Dovetail doesn't put loot crates in TSW.

[@StrikeEagle78]

@@JessicaKasumi1990 You won't be surprised to know that DTG was founded by former EA weirdos. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. They saw EA as being one of the most hated companies not only in video gaming, but in business overall (at least in the USA), so they thought "we want a piece of that turd pie".

[@mikeblatzheim2797]

The same reason I suspect why after 6+ years there isn't even a high entry version of the Dostos (literally just different doors) or the previous generation of Dostos (different window alignment). Too lazy to put in at most a single week's work for one person...

[@FrostyModernTvMan]

We should’ve got a new locomotive for the flixtrain company atleast

[@Guy-Zero]

afaik they only have Taurus and Vectron locomotives irl

[@schienennahverkehrDE]

They only have Vectrons and Taurus Locos.

[@eisenbahndeutschland9822]

The problem is, that Flixtrain only operates the Br 193 Vectron and the Br 182 Taurus

[@squelchedotter]

yes, they operate tauruses and various other leased locomotives, would have been easy to find something more interesting if they cared

[@Simsomsss]

Well Flixtrain only operates with BR 193 and BR182 (Austrian BR 1116) soooo….

[@TB76Returns]

Have you downloaded the FTF BR 146.2 Soundmod by Bahnpfuschhochschule on Train Sim Community, I highly recommend it. I drove it on the route doing a Fulda-Frankfurt run, and boy the sounds were just immaculate, like a proper 146, not the DTG sounds

[@DC4260Productions]

Yes, I do have that mod installed, but I haven't got around to driving the BR146.2 yet. Incidentally, I wish we had the BR146.0 in TSW as well.

[@TB76Returns]

@@DC4260Productions Yeah, the 146.1 too

[@sebonator3000]

The Dostos do have a different door opening/closing chime and the PIS screens have an orange text instead of the green one, also weirdly even though the ICE 3 trains spawn at Frankfurt I did not even see one spawn at Fulda either stopped or going past, even the station screens never mention any of the Kassel-Würzburg services Also in the same update in which they introduced the BR101 Expert for Frankfurt-Fulda they replaced the BR406 ICE with the BR411 on Dresden-Riesa Also, when I was driving an S-Bahn service around midnight from Hanau to Offenbach I've noticed an Intercity train run using the ÖBB 1116 with combined ÖBB and DB coaches, but I can't seem to find in the timetable for either the BR101 or the ÖBB 1116 And also I had the same bug with the train spawning past a red signal on one of the BR 642 services on the Maintalbahn, but I can't remember which one it was And yes, the doors are for some reason also broken on the BR 114 when you use it on Hamburg-Lübeck, just like in the BR 146.2 Frankfurt-Fulda variant and the older BR 146.2s

[@warrencrosby2620]

This route is second to main spessart bahn as my favorite German route. But that 114 brakes is non existent. Great review ! I love to hear your opinions on the routes.

[@DC4260Productions]

When I tried driving the BR114, I thought the main issue was her poor acceleration (compared to the BR143).

[@JessicaKasumi1990]

​@@DC4260ProductionsFrom what I've heard from a friend who is a locomotive engineer whose cousin works in Germany, and plays TSW, the acceleration is horrid compared to the real thing which he operates on for a living.

[@EXESasser]

If the brake issue in the 114 is related to the scenario "Pull!" I believe its called. The failed consist you couple to, the brake key is turned on in the Cab Car behind the lead 114 thus overriding the 114's own brakes. Turn off the brake key in the cab car and the 114s brakes will work fully again. For timetable free roam? I've not used the 114 other than the scenario I mentioned. Annoyingly...it's a bug THEY HAVENT FIXED.

[@VieleGuteFahrer]

The wipers don‘t work either.

[@Br-bs1xe]

So on the topic of rolling stock. 1. The 423s from Frankfurt have different power converters than the ones from Munich and therefore sound different. The Munich vehicles mostly have GTO power converters and the Frankfurt vehicles have IGBT power converters. 2. Drive on the Frankfurt Fluda line like on the Kassel Frankfurt Hocheinstigs Dosto and Cab Car type DABpbzf 762 and BR 114 or 146. 3. The door sounds don't work on the Flixtrain. 4. The driving physics of the 114 are rubbish, it spins way too fast and brakes too well.

[@WhisperingWiltshire]

For 16:01, did you actually buy the green ICE 1 or is it a creators club livery?

[@DC4260Productions]

The version I've got is from a mod pack I download from Train Sim Community, but I can't find it on the site anymore.

[@FrostyModernTvMan]

@@DC4260Productionsfoobian?

[@The-Flat-Capped-Gamer]

18:06 Yo thanks for saying my suggested issue here, and I remember you saying to me in the comment “This is Doesn’t Test Games after all”

[@peteryoung4570]

I think dtg issue is they set a date for release that is unrealistic. So they release it and fix the issues afterwards. Also I do wonder if they try to spread their team too widely rather than concentrating on one add on at a time. I mean look at just trains they look like one add on a year fir tsw. Blackpool branches a great add on. Looking forward to wcml over shap next. Though as a sidebar I needed some rivet bits and there's a 75pc off their webstore for older stuff so have robbed them for the likes of west Cornwall for £4.99 and Scottish express for 7.99

[@potatoman451]

Dtg have separate teams focusing on different countries. They can't have everyone working on 1 dlc otherwise you only get like 1 dlc every 2 years

[@garytempleman3446]

One route I keep having issues with, even with graphic set to min keep getting memory dumps

[@slovakballmapper]

Does the 442 from koln aachen layer on to this?

[@spartan117zm]

I run a 3090 and haven’t had any frame rate issues on FRA-Fulda. The only thing I get is the usual TSW stuttering from the tiles loading. Ironically San Bernardino performs worse on average for me.

[@ChefJulien]

Since TSW 3 I download the DLCs on the internet. As a german, I cant stand these inacurracies and bugs on the german routes. It would be so easy for DTG to model atleast the Dostos with the doors over the bogies. Or even new trains at all. Also re-releasing the 423 for Köln with the Munich interiour says all about DTG in my opinion.

[@potatoman451]

Is it really that easy? Creating high door dostos is changing the entire model. Not a 5 minute job like you suggest unfortunately

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

​@potatoman451 They have had years to make high floor dostos. They can if they want to. They choose not to. Quit making excuses for Dovetail.

[@The_Late_Night_Social_Club]

I think it's a very linear line with a lot of lag and bugs and, in general, is just very unpolished

[@ms.mine_]

The br 114 etc. are in the same locomotives family so they’re like this irl to comparing wise, doesn’t make dog less lazy

[@StrikeEagle78]

I wish TSW or a similar type game was developed and run by a company like Asobo. Night and day difference in the quality and handling of community engagement. You don't need the backing of Microsoft to put in the proper effort on a smaller scale. But DTG has always been a close minded company hence their utter failure when it they tried to break into the flight simulation space. That community wouldn't buy into their nonsense, however as one of the only games in town when it comes to trains, the community here just has to take it. They have a whole forum dedicated to community suggestions. Do they ever address any of it? Nope. It's their way or the highway for the most part. And look what they did with that pathetic editor they put out with TSW4. Community screams yay finally! Then they find out even if they make something in it, they can't put it in the actual game to play it. That's how you destroy community involvement rather than embracing and working with to enrich the ecosystem. I'm happy to part with my money to support good developers like Asobo and to ignore the pathetic ones like DTG.

[@gtasandman]

Im still waiting for them to fix the dostos the broke on hamburg to lubek for the release for the 218. seems like tsg just forgot about the 218 after getting people to shill for the 101 expert. Sidenote i enjoy the flixtrain vectron with its 5 services more than i ever enjoyed scotrail express after purchasing. Its coming to koln with the timetable update and hopefully it will sub onto more routes with updates.

[@TheSimulatorGuy2003]

That's actually been fixed now according to tsg there now testing it

[@potatoman451]

Sometimes tsg can't fix everything. Some things are outside their control

[@eldardb]

I just discovered that dovtalsmthing does actually do bugfixes at all

[@Frowny13]

I’ve actually found myself enjoying this route quite a bit, although that’s mainly because of the high amounts of traffic and the wide variety of trains you can drive on it. The route itself is just meh. And at least on my end the drive in and out of Frankfurt is laggy but not to the point that it’s unplayable. I can’t blame you for considering giving up on this game, and I lost all hope after TSW 3 was announced. I mainly just play it because it has a good amount of content that is easily accessible. I can at least say this game will never reach it’s full potential because they just can’t seem to make routes that are long enough to make them feel complete, and they recently confirmed that multiplayer is never coming. The reason why I’m not that bothered about the current state of the game is because there’s a better product out there, that once it blossoms will signal the end of TSW.

[@DC4260Productions]

Regarding the point about multiplayer being cancelled, that makes what Matt said in the old TS2017 / TSW - CSX Heavy Haul preview video sting even harder. I distinctly remember him saying 'There absolutely will be multiplayer in Train Sim World' in that video.

[@TachyKusanagi]

As to your aside at 14:02: The store-page for TSW5 now states, at the bottom, an AI-disclaimer. Here's it in full: "We are using ElevenLabs for some of our Voice-over production for Train Sim World® 5. All scripts and content are ours, but the voiceover itself has an AI element." Steam has made these AI-disclaimers mandatory across the Steam store. If a game uses anything created by AI, the developer/publisher must include the info or face potential removal from the platform.

[@potatoman451]

Ai isn't that bad tbh

[@DC4260Productions]

If that's the case, then are you using Ai to auto-generate your comments? XD You're always quick to show up in the comments sections of mine and other TSW reviewers to explain away the developers' decisions.

[@TachyKusanagi]

@@DC4260Productions I imagine you mean potatoman451 since I'm here for the first time. lol

[@DC4260Productions]

Indeed I do.

[@joschuaponighaus9718]

The Doppelstockwagen have new door sounds!!!

[@schienennahverkehrDE]

It´s called I.C.E not Ice... 12:13 The S7 is the only line wich terminates at the Tracks 1 - 4 aboveground. There is an Extra S8 wich goes from the aboveground of Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof to Kelsterbach. But only when there are special events in the stadium or for airportstaff in the morning. And the S7 does not use the BR423. It uses the BR425. The BR423 only runs on the lines S2, S3, S4, S5, S6. The BR425 is used for the S7. The BR430 is used for the lines S1, S8, S9. But sometimes but rarely the BR430.3 wich is the newest variant of this type, is used on the S2 line.

[@JessicaKasumi1990]

-_- Dovetail gonna Dovetail. I swear, they need to improve their games. And this just further cements why I've never bothered to buy anything for TSW outside maybe Boston Sprinter or maybe even Penninsula Corridor.

[@StrikeEagle78]

@@JessicaKasumi1990 At least they fleeced you for far less than some of us. I bought into an idea that never really came to fruition. Then they turned into a company that outright lies to their customers and strings them along. That was the last straw for me. They are undeserving of my money.

[@JessicaKasumi1990]

@@StrikeEagle78 I never bought them. I'm only supporting high quality developers for TSC.

[@danimonte7088]

Ive always wandered why do you always compare prices in new Zealand dollars, why not use euros, or US dollars?

[@StrikeEagle78]

@@danimonte7088 Because he's in New Zealand....

[@warrencrosby2620]

Google can easily help you compare the equivalent of U.S dollars from New Zealand dollars.

[@Cr1mson_sh6d0w]

I didn’t seem to experience any performance issues with the kingzigtalbahn even thought I play on ps5 and I found the route to have no major problems, as for the Flix Train it was all ways marketed as being sold separately after the game released. I found this route to be enjoyable, as I am not a Person who pays huge attention to details like sounds and interiors. As for wcml south the only issue I had there is the timetable. Also I want to ask you to make a review about the nec New York to Trenton, I feel like they made the route a lot better but I at least want to hear you’re opinion of it be it through a video or a reply.

[@DC4260Productions]

I've hardly played on the NEC route lately, so I don't really have an opinion on it's current state.

[@LeSpotteurFrançais]

You do know that Flixtrain train “doesn't only operate in Germany” right?? They also go around Europe. Even to France and London and other parts of the United Kingdom. Just like Flixbus and other Flix transport companies.

[@jamesnicolson6833]

Flixtrain is indeed exclusive to Germany. The France to London connection is the Eurostar

[@agungputronugroho]

I play this route today, using BR 193 Vectron flixtrain

[@blondiblau2007]

😣😖😤😠😡😡😡🤬🤬🤬