Kirkham Motorsports University CNC Billet Aluminum 427 FE Engine Block 1 of 3

[@scottym3]

I could watch you do this all day long. I'm a retired CNC Machinist living in the Space Coast of Florida. Many of my parts went up in space for satellites and such. I do miss working on them. Ran quite a few Haas and others. I so loved setting them up and getting a first piece off to see what the final product looked like. Great work on those blocks.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks! I love making things! We are working on a crazy part right now. I'll work on getting a video of it up for everyone to see. It is 80 inches long!

[@hockeymann88]

Good Lord. That engine is at least as desirable as the car. Machined from a single billet! Holy hell man. That must be the sweetest FE on the planet.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks :)

[@rossbmarvin3rd]

I spent the majority of my career as a CNC set up man. That's really a great job you've done.

[@tunaharhar5666]

As an ex machinist and tool crib/tool ordering person I can appreciate the work you are doing! You were hanging some of those endmills way out there which tend to snap (Goodbye $3-400 each). Great design and programming!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

It really is a ton of fun. There is a huge need in US industry for guys who can design, program, and run these types of machines. Keep working hard :)

[@Bbbbad724]

I s that an FE or a Windsor? It isn’t a Y block? Or is it a bed plate?

[@ghost2coast296]

Wow you really pushed that machine to its limits. I would have never imagined an engine block being made in a machine of that size

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

We sent the block out to be line bored at an engine shop. The cam bearings are all the same size. We took out material to save weight (it is easier than going on a diet :) We are using 6061. It is the best all around alloy for this application (corrosion resistance, strength at temperature, availability, etc).

[@CruzDemon]

A work of art! I look forward to seeing more form you guys...

[@m98custom1212]

This why I love working in machining watching a billet turn into something useful. Amazes me every time

[@NinthDensity]

Beautiful piece of work. Have never heard of a whole block being carved out of a single billet.

[@InTheDogHouse3DPrinting]

I have always wanted to work in a shop like this. I don't know anything about machining, but I would love to do assembly work in a place like this. I have been a mechanic for several years, and I used to build engines from kits, and rebuild engines for lots of customers. Now I work on motorcycles and ATV's, along with small engines. LOVE being a mechanic.

[@ledzeppelin27]

what a time to be alive. awesome engine work

[@OmaarHL]

A masterpiece! We used to joke about this.....it's incredible to see these. Keep up the good work.

[@jdubz22]

I want to work at your place.. Love to see someone actully maximazing the machine capabilities. Brilliant!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks for the kind words. I sincerely appreciate them. 30 hours of CNC 30 hours of CAD 50 hours of programming. We spend a lot of time programming because we program in all the deburring passes and champhers to make a nice part.

[@prinzikenna.o6577]

Good job sir

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@@prinzikenna.o6577 Thanks! Glad you liked it :)

[@QLQZ]

What type of aluminum is used sir

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@@QLQZ 6061 T6

[@QLQZ]

@@KirkhamMotorsports1 Sir I want to ask you about something

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Great question. Cast iron sleeves have been used for decades in engines. Cast iron holds oil well and wears for a long, long time. There are some exotic sleeves today that are used as well-- such as Nikisil.

[@jlo13800]

What type of oil injection does this engine use? i would run nothing but synthetic motule 800 2t in it!

[@joshssauce]

I would LOVE to do this one day. I'm studying to become an engineer and I love this stuff haha I can even get emotional about it

[@jlo13800]

yes i got 4 1600oz steppers for my 2 stroke big block project, i might need 5 axis not sure as i have to run a baffled sealed airtight crankcase for scavenging. most 427 can un dirested oil injection and are popper valved 2 stroks with 2 VRP pumps. Most today can run XD-100 ETEC BRP 2 stroke oil with out problems ans most 572 CID 2 stroks do anyways. I might get bigger 4200 ounch in stepper motors with drives and board for more handleing for the big 2 stroke!

[@henryross4343]

I have always wanted to own a Kirkham SC 427 - your cars are freaking beautiful. And then when i heard that you were going to start machining your own 427 aluminum blocks and just thought these guys are serious motor heads. I may not own one, but i appreciate your interpretation of Shelby era of cars!

[@mackwinchester]

It’s just crazy that every single task has to executed absolutely correct and theres so many different variables.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Manufacturing is our life here. We just love to make things. Thanks for noticing how challenging it really is.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

We have always wanted a horizontal. It certainly would be better for a block. That is a great idea to use the lathe for relieving end mills. We will get an insert and try it. We used the mill this time because we had it handy and were back up and running again in about 15 minutes. Great suggestion :) Thanks!

[@foadrightnow5725]

The finished block is an engineering work of art! I'd have that as a centerpiece in my foyer. But I'm sure it would be vetoed in a flash. Oh well, centerpiece in my mancave it is, then! Beautifully done!

[@mikldude9376]

Nice work , and you are a gentleman David, you answered all those questions , even the smart ass ones with complete aplomb, well done all around sir !

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks :) Most people really do want to add to the discussion. I certainly don't know everything and have learned quite a bit listening to other people with more experience that I have. Thanks for the kind words :)

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Great answer. There are other exotic steels that have been used over the years. Cast iron is the best combination of wear, cost, function, ease of manufacture, lots of experience, etc.

[@leloodallasmultipass]

lazy! when is someone going to make a decent flat 8? you'll probably have to use a different config for the suspension, but once you get that ironed out, you will have the best cg you've ever had. SOOOO worth it. please do it. the world needs this.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@billg69gmc Thanks for the kind words. I sincerely appreciate them. 30 hours of CNC 30 hours of CAD 50 hours of programming. We spend a lot of time programming because we program in all the deburring passes and champhers to make a nice part.

[@eddiefe428]

When will they make a billet head for the fe that flows very well

[@TheRandomActivity]

CNC milling machines are amazing!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

With billet you can make what ever you want and you are not stuck with a casting. With a casting you can cast hollow areas with cores. Castings are generally weaker--especially at working temperature. Billet lets you be really creative. We have lots of Haas equipment. We just bought a huge GR-712 and we love it.

[@TheWorst-]

Took a shot every time he said the word "Block", now i`m hammered

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks! There are lots of smart people out there. We are fortunate to know many of them who have helped with a lot of great ideas!

[@kiefferdavis3784]

I grew up in small town with 65 HEMI Belvadere; 63 & half 427 Med.Riser 2x4barrel & my 69 Z-28.After FIVE motors I could stay up with 427.LOL.Friend has "California Flash" 68 Dart " Race HEMI " in his collection.Butch Leal came to see his old car.Welded at Restoration shop with high school friend ,Painter & meta-man.English Wheel hard to master!! Love all 60s Hot Rods.

[@atowngreen]

Very very impressive! I love the fact that you guys' use HAAS's -many people believe that they're just cheap, throw-away machines; when they're easily capable of achieving tolerances within tenths. I can't imagine how long it took to program and plan something like this. Most aerospace parts I've programmed/made don't even touch this. Kudos!

[@dietermeyer9231]

You don't repair a HAAS, you replace it.

[@marcsolorzan9487]

As a machinist who has done large complex parts, I can tell you, this stuff ain't easy. The opportunity for mistake, or error is extremely vast. And 1 simple thing, at the end of the entire ordeal can totally screw up everything.

[@CarguyEd5150]

That truly is a work of art, the stuff of dreams, and job well done! I can only imagine what it took to get to this stage of manufacturing and the time and start up costs must have been steep, but as the old saying goes, fortune favors the bold. Simply amazing and great video!

[@jlo13800]

Thats a way to make a BB 2 stroke. i got a few 1600 oz spepper and might need bigger but the 1600oz in stepper should handle a big block od aluminum for a BB 2 stroke ove about 600 CID. it needs bafled crankcases and mor bore spacing, this 427 is a poppet valved 2 stroke with direct oil injection though that is show here.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, all material moves and stress relieves as you machine it. We roughed everything out and left substantial material all over so it could stress relieve. We then did 2 finishing passes.

[@FreebitNL]

Wow, the professional work, shines like a diamond.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks!

[@MrMojaveDude]

Very Nice, Having been a CNC machinist almost 30 years, I have many questions, But, I rather just give Props for job well done, Thanks for the Vid!

[@gheumann]

As a gearhead and amateur CNC home machinist... DAMN! Nice work!

[@joefish1498]

Great video on how to close splash doors on a cnc machine

[@ArnoldsDesign]

Yep, sometimes you have to use things on hand to get the job done. I've relieved endmills now and again using a harig on a surface grinder. This looks like a cool shop to work at.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@fixerdave, Great question! We rough machine the block and leave lots of material on for a "roughing finish pass." Then we machine the block again and leave about 0.010" for a finish pass. Then we do the final pass. Because the block is free to rotate on the pillow block end of the "A" axis, it twists and stress relieves every time the pillow block brake releases and the block rotates. We connected the pillow block brake to the same air brake that is used on the rotary axis.

[@eddiefe428]

Make a ford fe block with a taller deck hight where you can get more cubic inches

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@xevious2501 Thanks. Yes, all the chips are recycled. It takes much less energy to remelt chips than to make aluminum from oxide. I don't know of anyone who machines at extreme temperatures. I am not sure how you would keep the part at any extreme temperature for any meaningful length of time as the machining process is quite long. We take thermal expansion into consideration when machining tolerances. I am excited to look into any info you might have on Ferrari's process.

[@洪素鶴-t2u]

在加工上跟熱處理一樣冷膄熱脹，侯不能太熱，材質關係好大分享

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@@洪素鶴-t2u Thank you!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thank you for your kind words. The block indeed DOES distort all over the place as the aluminum stress relieves. We have to rough it with about 0.065" of material all over, then do a pre-finish pass and leave 0.010" before we final finish machine the block. I think the entire process was 25-30 hours.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@dethmetalderique GREAT question! 7075 is a great alloy for high strength--at certain temperatures. However, 7075 has poor strength at the higher temperatures encountered in an engine. 6061 is actually stronger at engine temperatures. 7075 also exhibits very poor corrosion resistance. 7075 is also very susceptible to stress corrosion cracking. 6061 has far higher resistance to corrosion.

[@OriginalBrett610]

Thank you so much for this video! It was amazing to watch!

[@moonryder203]

Awesome! Working on engines like that must be exciting! plus nerve recking for both programmer and set-up guy! LOL!! You definitely have some talent in your shop! Good luck on all your projects! Thank you for sharing this video!

[@robertsnare3529]

Mister David I AM SOLD.. YOU ARE THE MAN.. Thanks

[@darrylhorrocks5688]

Very pro! I like the CNC machining of the endmill. All the shops I have worked at in the past would have made me do it by hand using a Dekel.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Good questions! We bored the camshaft 1/2 way from both ends with the same size bores. Many variables are taken into account when making a block--yield, stiffness, etc. The strength of 7075 falls off quickly at the operating temperature of the block. The block dyno'd at 630 hp. It has 4000 miles on it and two track days where it ran for almost 6 hours straight each time. No one was kind to the motor on the track. Thanks for asking. Happy to answer any questions :)

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@522design We can do a block every couple of days if we wanted to. However, we just got the first block back from the dyno and we are now about to test it in a car. We'll keep you updated.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

There are advantages to castings and advantages to forgings. Forgings are stronger and have much better strength at operating temperature. Castings let you make hollow parts (water jackets, etc). We solved the water jacket problem by using wet sleeves. Castings also have serious porosity, core-shift, and inclusion problems.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@irainco, Great question. Billet aluminum is very strong and resistant to softening at the temperatures encountered in a running engine. Also, with a block of aluminum, we don't have to make a foundry pattern and wait for a foundry to cast the block--only to have to machine it later anyway. We can test the design and make changes quite easily and we are not locked into a casting pattern. This works very well for short runs of parts.

[@capncol]

Thanks for posting. Enjoyed that. One of the more intersting videos on youtube

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks for some great comments. The block dyno'd at something like 630 horse power. It has run several track days going all out--all day--with no problems. Many blocks have water between the sleeves (F1 blocks are made like this). Like most things, there are advantages and disadvantages to blocks with siamesed bores and blocks with water around the bores. We chose to have wet sleeves to improve the cooling (a problem in FE motors). Thanks!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, tools wear out. We regularly inspect and replace them. We really don't adjust tool paths to compensate for tool wear. (However, there is slight adjustment in a lathe for tool wear when making parts with high tolerances).

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Indeed the original 427 FE block was cast from iron (although there was a 390 block that was cast in aluminum for CSX3002 back in the day). Currently, Shelby uses 6 bolts in their cross bolt mains (two more than original) and Pond uses the original two bolts in their cross bolt mains. We decided to use a girdle (like F1 engines) for our block. All four of these aluminum blocks use sleeves. We have thought about using nikasil, however :)

[@ArnoldsDesign]

Nice engine block. I like these Haas machines. I would recommend using diamond wheels for relieving endmills instead of CBN. The diamond wheels last a lot longer and cut faster and easier.

[@NintendoFunTime]

Not sure off the top of my head if that machine is capable of running through spindle coolant, but if it is, you could save a lot of time and money when drilling the oil and water journals if you used a through spindle carbide drill. Guhring makes some very nice ones. Pricey, but they drill fast with no pecking, and they last quite awhile.

[@huskerpwrful]

How many end mills do you go through in one block? This is pretty impressive and it is good to see this type of manufacturing right here in the US. I am a mold toolmaker for a company and it kills me to see foreign tools come in. More people need to be aware of what we can do as machinist. It is also good to see you using an American Made machine! its so easy to get others in this world. GREAT VIDEO!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@PixMan107, Indeed those drill bits are very fast...but extremely expensive. We have "through the tool coolant" on the mill (you can see it when we do the deep milling on the mains side). That said, "speed" isn't always paramount in a machining operation. When a part runs all night long on a mill it really doesn't matter if it finishes at 3:00 am or 4:00 am.

[@tashpaug]

That is a real work of art!

[@RoadHead62]

@KirkhamMotorsports1 Very cool! I'm a metal fabricator myself, so I know what a job that must have been. Even if you had them stamped they would have required massive amounts of metal finishing to get it that smooth!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, I posted we could make a car in Stainless--but for some reason I can't find it right now. There are problems with posting comments now that youtube and google and google+ are connected. They just started. Hopefully they will have it solved quickly. And...thank you very much for the kind words :)

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. We are completely booked right now with orders.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

We haven't made billet heads yet. We are seriously considering it, however. We determined the seal relief by looking at Parker Hannifin's O-ring charts and looking at other sleeved motors. I don't have a video of the motor running...I should get one. We have just been too tied up around here with other cool projects :)

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@SpecRLegend, We are just in the prototype phase right now. We hope to have the block up an running on a dyno in 30 days or so. The sleeves are made from ductile iron.

[@CarlJohnson-km8zr]

that's amazing, I've alway's been a fan of the 302 ford, and always wanted to mill a forged aluminum block and somehow mill a 4 valve head based off a Honda crf unicam design...but now ford has the coyote... Its amazing that japan and other countries used overhead cam multiple valves per cylinder to boost reliability and performance to different applications over the years and now the us automakers are utilizing it.

[@iceman45ification1]

That block came out so nice it's almost a shame to use it. Lol. Very nice work!! 👌

[@rdallas81]

+Danny Caballero right on! I would make a table out of it, with a glass top so people can see the beautiful cylinders........lol,

[@iceman45ification1]

Roy Hemion​ that'd be an awesome idea!! Lol

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@Rylander88 Yes, the block is set up to take all original FE parts. We make many of the other parts for the FE. We are thinking about making heads and a billet intake right now, but we have too many other cool projects on the burners right now.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, we are quite sure the block was forged. We bought it from an aerospace forging house in California that supplies to Boeing.

[@a6t8vw1]

Impressive for a HAAS machine. good work

[@d7me]

that was great job man ..... nice work !

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@GNRacer, the block is based on Darton's MID system. The deck is open, like modern engines.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@rajgd009, We don't know how much power it will produce yet. Our cars generally have 600-700 horsepower. They really don't "need" any more than that. We haven't done anything to reduce the internal stresses except for careful machining practices. We can't wait to see it on the dyno.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@ShadenGheist, Yes, it is an FE. We changed the cross bolts for a girdle with all the mains in a single part.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@MrSpeedwin Thanks for the kind words. The block is a prototype for now. We plan to put them into production soon.

[@michaelovitch]

it's just a metal properties problem. for ex : there are bearings (soft alloy) sandwiched between very hard steel parts to avoid seizure.

[@southern04man]

amazing work!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@SpecRLegend, We have made just one block for now. Yes, a 5 axis would be really great. We are looking into getting one right now.

[@trex1943]

wet sleeves, the block doesn't have a traditional water jacket, rather the sleeves are relieved to allow room for a water jacket once the sleeves are pressed in. hence the reason for the o-rings that were mentioned.

[@area777th]

“Fear is the thief of dreams” that is so true...

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, we could certainly do it. The issue is time. We just have so many projects going on right now we can't get to all the cool stuff we want to :)

[@tomthompson7400]

Every chip that you remove just adds beauty , and expense . Perfect equation for quality engineering.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

We like to keep our guys happy :) Thanks for watching!

[@holdernewtshesrearin5471]

saw the name and had to watch.im also a machinist although i no longer work in the field.wild! great vid btw!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Thanks!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

6061-T6 Total cycle time is around 30 hours. We use SolidWorks, SpaceClaim, and SurfCam.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@letterpool, 6061 T-6 has a much higher strength (especially at engine temperatures) than the typical casting alloy of 356T-6. The higher strength allows us to use thinner walls.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Great question :) Yes, the shavings are absolutely recycled. It is very efficient to recycle aluminum chips. The dies are VERY expensive to forge a block closer to the final shape. This is a simple way to test out a new idea.

[@hamnchee]

Way to open and shut those doors, Dave!

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@eth7889, We send it all back to be recycled. It takes far less energy to melt chips into aluminum than to make aluminum from ore.

[@JoAnnHudson333]

Hey there, Mike! I've been trying to reply to your comments on my videos (very, very kind of you and so appreciated)! For some reason, it won't let me reply to your comments, so I am posting here, hope you get the notification because I want you to know how grateful I am that you took the time to look up "The Child" and that you have fond memories of our great times at NTC Orlando. It certainly was my favorite gig, you guys were THE GREATEST and although we were unaware of the stresses that nuke school was creating, we surely do remember that y'all were just the GREATEST bunch of guys and always a pleasure to perform there. Somewhere I do have a digitized recording of "Got To Move" (gee, can't believe you remember that)! When I locate it, I will let you know and e-mail you a copy. I should be more organized with my stuff, LOL, I have so many darn external hard drives and it would take years to organize the contents of them all. Bless you and if you know why KZbin will not let me reply to your comments, help me out! You're subscribed to me, I am subscribed to you, so there is some glitch, or I may just be "Google-Member-Challenged," ha ha!

[@cncmike]

Hi JoAnn. I sent you a message but just to make sure I'm going to post here too. I found my settings were not how I thought they were so I changed them so anyone can comment on any post I make. At least that's what I think I did. Let me know.

[@JoAnnHudson333]

Yes, got it, glad all is straightened out!

[@jjhart59]

beautiful work of art

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@GNRacer, We made our own boring bar with bushing plates bolted to the ends of the block.

[@scottdean4117]

Man that. Is a thing of beauty

[@lobomella128]

This video is 13 years old as I type this; considering how fast technology moves, what is the biggest engine you can make these days in 2024? How fast can it be done? This is truly impressive, even after all these years.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

You can make an engine about any size you want. CNC mills can be very large. Speed depends on detail and size. The bigger something is the longer it takes. The more detailed something is the longer it takes. It is truly amazing what these machine do.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@vipexperformance, Yes, the block could be cast, but castings are generally weak and with a billet block we can remove all the weight in all the little areas we want to. We made the old FE because that is what our customers love. Check out our website.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

J Jones, We did the line bores later. We did not line the lifter bores--not necessary.

[@salvadorebertolone]

i've been kicking around some ideas on how to line bore the mains. the real killer setup is if i can keep them concentric, circular, and on size with a right angle head. does this have a lot of residual stresses in it after all the material removal or do you do it 95% and then rest it for a week or so and then back on the machine to finish it?

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, everything wears and must be checked. We change worn out tools but don't change the tool path. The tool path is correct--or, at least it should be.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

Yes, That is called "rough, open, or hand" forging. It is done all the time in the aerospace industry. We just didn't want to take the time to do it.

[@KirkhamMotorsports1]

@apostate101, Great question! Yes, the chips are recycled. Aluminum is easily recycled for much less energy than it takes to make it from ore.

[@MrDavidelliottjr]

This was awesome to watch

[@KnurdMonkey]

State of the art!