Kit E39: Kickup Rudders, Bow, and Bulkheads

[@edwardlefkow3442]

Another interesting week.....learned a lot about the mfg. of the bow point and the kick up rudder. Thanks.

[@bunyipdan]

With the glass rope roll ..... you might consider speeding up this job by utilising two stiffened wires on either side of your material like a foresail furler.......pre tension two wires by locking one end in a vice and applying considerable twist using the other end inserted in a drill (this method turns plain fencing wire into straight spring steel wire). Place one wire under the wetted glass sheet and the other wire opposite above. Either 3D print a chuck to clamp the wire ends into it, this will lock the two wires together with the wetted sheet between, insert one or even both ends (wire chucks) into a drill and rotate (if you use two drills one would need to be in reverse).......this should evenly and tightly twist the wetted sheet into a rope roll......carry the rope to the glue up and remove the chucks and slip the wires. Any void left by the wire should be minimal and easily worked out.......just a thought...... With your bow stem you might also consider allowing for a little more glass/Kevlar reinforcing (on the outer skin/stem/heel) as this takes a battering from incidental impacts with flotsam and ropes.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Interesting idea, and it would probably work. But I don't think we will bother with any kind of device for rolling. I like the control of hand rolling, and I counted up the number of 'ropes' we have to make and it comes to about 120 total for the whole boat. Each takes us about 1 minute to roll, so a grand total of two hours over the entire two year build.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@glennedwards1449]

Much respect to Brian he is no doubt your MVP he is just putting his head down and getting the job done he is a boat building machine.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Hey, don't tell him that, he'll want a raise. Let's see, zero time zero, carry the zero...

[@robinengland5799]

Sounds like y'all have a great plan! You are making wonderful progress, I sure am learning alot! I can't wait till next episode! Its going to be a super nice boat!

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thanks so much!

[@robw2379]

I have never had a "perfect" experience with kick-up rudders. The biggest issue has been the rudders kicking up when the boat really starts flying in a good blow and choppy seas. It sure looks like your mechanism is sturdy and ought to be able to overcome that problem, but I suggest you might want to add a fail-safe to the design: a place to put a pin that will turn your kick-up rudders into fixed rudders. Then you can keep the rudders in the water until you can get someplace safe to adjust the kick-up tension. Great progress. Keep plugging away!

[@SailingSVLynx]

What we plan to do is have several strength 'arms' printed. Fist we will use them to test to get the right strength dialed in, but we will keep stronger sets on board, just in case we need them in rough conditions. It only take a couple of minutes to swap out the arms.

[@jacksbackable]

Dagger board explanation was interesting, I’m personally not sold on the kick up rudders, the process is interesting to watch. Thanks 😎🇦🇺

[@SailingSVLynx]

We understand you aren't sold on the kickup rudders, but what type of rudders would you suggest for a daggerboard catamaran that needs to beach the boat?

[@mejeanlouis72]

Check out the Mumby Catamarans built from Aluminum in the Philippines a good example is SV Jupiter 2 it has a kick up rudder works perfectly well.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Thanks, but I have already watched all their episodes :)

[@jacksbackable]

@@SailingSVLynx I’d assume you would only consider beaching on sand, I’ve always found the rudders will create their own hollows, and digging is the other option.

[@dalgamor]

@@jacksbackable Sometimes we won't have a choice, like when crossing the Wadden Sea. The tide will go out, several miles, dropping 30' at times. We will land on the sea floor and wait 6 hours for the water to return. Similar situations will arise while we are in the Kimberly's, or at some ports around the UK.

[@jmalte4702]

Use sticks with packing tape to hold the fiberglass ropes down in the crevices (tape to bulkheads…)

[@SailingSVLynx]

Good idea!

[@andrewrogers796]

I’ve noticed your not fitting continuous uni’s in the bulkhead troughs, I’m a composite catamaran builder and each join is a major weak spot in your engineering, a place that could give you grief. I’d be calling Jeff or Schionning designs and telling them what you’ve done. Also a hot tip for doing the inside of your doors, make a male mould wider than all the troughs for the doors and wind the uni’s around it staggering the joins. Once green, cut it into strips the width of the bulks, use the finished uni’s as a cutting guide for your door cutouts, glue in and glass them in wrapping DB glass from one side of the bulkhead to the other, saves making the troughs, trying to stuff the rope in and having it pull out of the troughs, saves heaps of time and much stronger 😉

[@SailingSVLynx]

@@andrewrogers796 Hey Andrew. The rope is tapered at the ends by one foot (300mm) and overlapped with the next rope by that distance. This is the method which Schionning recommended.

[@andrewrogers796]

@@SailingSVLynx that’s ok, they’ve changed their thoughts on it then

[@Finn-McCool]

12:00 Use a drill to "twist" your rope. It really makes life easy. Just make a hook and place it in the drill and off you go. Also you can literally buy some rope and soak it in epoxy. Also: make a sized insert covered with the packing tape that you can compress the filler roll as it dries. You can use temporary painters tape to temporarily tape it into the groove and et voila.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We are happy enough rolling the 'rope'. As for the wood to press in, we have experimented with that.

[@Finn-McCool]

@@SailingSVLynx I mention it because I watched SV Dauntless use the drill method and it was not just better it was revolutionary. No pun intended. 👍

[@SailingSVLynx]

I have watched Dauntless, but must have missed that. If you can, link the episode and I'll take a look.

[@Finn-McCool]

@@SailingSVLynx Building MV Dauntless "Step 27: Assembling the transom!" about 16 minutes in. 👍 Looks like my link got rejected.

[@Finn-McCool]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/lYjZi5mQd7J0iq8

[@mtrezaie]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am learning so much from you.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Hopefully, we aren't leading anyone astray! This is all from research we have done over many years, but we are always happy to hear other opinions on our topics :)

[@ipc1962]

Es realmente un trabajo de artesanos. Disfruto mucho de sus videos, muchas gracias por compartir esta gran aventura. Saludos desde Argentina, Buenos Aires.

[@SailingSVLynx]

¡De nada, y gracias por mirar!

[@BethMcConnochie-ii2hs]

Hi I think that you will find that once one rudder is fully up the pivot will lock the rudder system in central position.

[@SailingSVLynx]

In the rare cases where we want to run with one rudder, there is a small hatch that gives us access to a quick release pin that we can pull to disengage the 'up' rudder from the steering.

[@dansegelov305]

Hey, maybe ask Schionning if you can substitute those ropes for thickened epoxy full of loose chopped glass strands? You just mix it together and lay it in wit a trowel or scraper. Ropes are so time consuming and often leave a void in the centre.

[@SailingSVLynx]

They were very specific about how the ropes must be made, even down to which weave and orientation.

[@badbadberto]

I recall you mentioned in a previous video that the retaining clip mechanism for the rudder kickup will be 3D printed from structural nylon, and, from the render you showed, that part is designed to slide into a retaining slot. Is there a risk of the nylon swelling as it absorbs water (especially for a part subjected to steady contact with water), making it impossible to remove? Aparently a dimensional change of several percent is possible as nylon saturates with water. It might be necessary to prototype the mechanism in nylon, but machine a final part from stainless steel. I appreciate all the engineering considerations you explain in detail, by the way.

[@SailingSVLynx]

The arms can't be made in metal because they need to flex to release the bar. The plate they are attached to could be, and we can print in stainless steel. We will water test all parts before insalling them in the boat to make sure there are no issues like this.

[@johnh.5779]

I love the detail and focused attention to the pros /cons of a kick-up rudder v. lifting etc. Not sure I agree with all of the hypotheticals (I’m steering with rudders in a push come to shove moment v relying on propeller steerage alone) though nor do I appreciate the cost/benefit v. risk of investing in this option v. a lifting or traditional system. Yet that’s why I watch to learn…enjoyed the video. Thank you!

[@SailingSVLynx]

Hey John, thanks for the nice comment. As for steering with props vs rudders, to each their own. However, with a cat, which is vastly different than a mono in this case, the rudders are only useful for very limited situations. With props only, you can maneuver much slower since, unlike the rudders, they don't require a lot of water flow to make them work. Especially with electric motors, like on S/V Lynx. A cat can pivot in a circle with just throttle control. Think of them like driving a tank, which doesn't have a steering wheel or rudders. It just needs two levers to independently control the two treads and it can spin in place, like a cat. There are a few specific times I might use rudders, like pulling out sideways from a dock, where you turn the rudders all the way to one side, then use reversed throttles. One prop pushes water on the turned rudder and the other is turning the bow. If you balance the thrust properly, you may pull out sideways, like when there are two boats, docked with you, one close to your bow and the other to your stern. But, 99% of the time, you only need the throttles and can reduce the complexity of maneuvering and do it all at slower speeds than using rudders. www.cruisingworld.com/how/how-dock-and-swing-catamaran/ www.yachtingworld.com/video/catamaran-sailing-techniques-leaving-the-dock-67133

[@Mrcaffinebean]

The ocra thing is crazy. I have heard of it but I didn’t know it was so widespread.

[@ApprenticeGM]

orca (not ocra). Killer whales. I wouldn't be keen on them attacking my boat either . . .

[@Mrcaffinebean]

@@ApprenticeGM haha attack of the ocra is something that only happens in deep fryers

[@ApprenticeGM]

@@Mrcaffinebean haha love it 😀

[@SailingSVLynx]

Maybe the orcas will leave us alone if we feed them ocra?

[@clivestainlesssteelwomble7665]

I would build or reinforce the whole bows and sterns Wiith a skin of Two layers of basalt..the bow with an engy absorbing core backed by a second layer of glass and or basalt and taper it into the main hull structure after the front collision bulk heads.

[@SailingSVLynx]

That is already coming, (more than two layers) we are just waiting for our laminating epoxy to arrive.

[@Toad434]

Nice build, I wonder if an Aluminium Rudder would be easier to build and stronger (Orcas) Also easy to repair compared to glass. : )

[@SailingSVLynx]

I'm not sure alumiinum is easier to repair, though I agree it is harder to damage. But, when it comes to the orcas, they tend to keep at it until the rudders are destroyed. So, I'd rather not have them beating the boat apart trying to destroy aluminum rudders. ;)

[@ApprenticeGM]

I think if you're at sea glass+epoxy is easier to repair than aluminium . . . also lighter and stiffer, which is always a benefit on a performance cat.

[@normanboyes4983]

The yachts that have sunk (quickly) were ‘charged’ by the orca directly onto the rudder blade - the force loaded the top rudder bearing housing laterally (force of impact x the leverage of the distance between impact and bearing housing structure) and fractured the boat structure which opened the yacht to the sea. Game over.

[@alqubes]

damn those Orcas come in an sneak attack

[@SailingSVLynx]

No kidding!

[@normanboyes4983]

You are certainly making much better progress of late. Brian - I fully understand you are following the manufacturers instructions and am not seeking to undermine that whatsoever - but for the life of me I really do not understand what is being achieved by these resin soaked fibreglass ropes around the bulkhead panels that could not have been achieved by the traditional resin mixed with coarse fibreglass strands. I had never seen this before and from the comments that it is not novel and have looked at the linked MV Dauntless You Tube video - but I am still not convinced . Keep up the good work and keep having fun too.😀👍⛵️😊

[@SailingSVLynx]

It's as simple as this is the way Schionning boats have been built for 35 years, so we weren't about to mess with changing their design when their boats are known for being strong and seaworthy.

[@Hotzenplotz1]

There's missing a crash box from solid glass... If the bow is hit even by something very light the foam will deform. Which is fine to prevent a large leakage but it needs to be protected by some solid laminate so no feather from the marina ducks will harm the foam. Additionally I find this crash zone way to small and there should be laminate inbetween the layers of foam to stop the water and protect the rest of the crash box. Also the kick up rudders are useless if the propeller shafts are ripped out by obstacles in the water. The hole in the hull will sink the boat immediate.

[@SailingSVLynx]

Where do you think we are missing a crash box?

[@Hotzenplotz1]

Was working on the comment again... Why don't you build the hull to it's entire height in one piece?

[@SailingSVLynx]

For several reasons. First. this is a kit boat, so we built it according to how the kit was made. But, the next reason is better :) By not building the sides of the boat on early during construction, we get to have air flow from outside, in the hulls for sanding, fairing, etc. Less fumes and dust, and cooler for the workers. Here is a link to an image that shows this for you (scroll down to the 'Light Weight' paragraph and image). www.svlynx.com/solitaire1490theboat.html

[@glennimmortal]

is it just me or the way steering connects to rudder shaft will only allow it to kick up when the rudder is dead ahead otherwise it would bind

[@SailingSVLynx]

Good news! We covered that in the video, here: 26:55

[@DaveHines1]

Sounds like you’ve thought out much of your design and have a solid design to go forward , can I kinda play devil’s advocate and ask what have you forgotten or missed out 😃🍻

[@SailingSVLynx]

If we knew what we forgot, it woudn't be forgotten. ;) But in all seriousness, so far, what we underestimated are the duties and taxes to import goods into the US. We have spent $10,000 more for that than planned. I'm sure there will be more such things and we did plan for what we didn't plan for, so to speak, with a contingency fund set aside for that.

[@DaveHines1]

@@SailingSVLynx nicely answered 😉 my point was that in my experience , when you thing you have everything planned and under control that’s when you’ve probably missed something 😃

[@SailingSVLynx]

Sure, I agree, but we still don't know what we have missed yet. At the end of the project, I can make you a list, lol.

[@petercurrell9344]

Another U Tuber used mooring line rope soaked in Epoxy

[@SailingSVLynx]

Though that might work, the engineering plans call for fiberglass rope, so we stuck with the plans to be safe

[@1littlelee]

immediate, 3d printers, NOPE to words that are NOT used together

[@SailingSVLynx]

A few hours from concept to in hand, versus days or, more likely, weeks to get it built at a machine shop, if they can even build that shape at all.

[@curtbrown9702]

Your trying to hard making your vids. Be yourselfs, not actors. Once you left your office your vid became a lot more enjoyable.

[@SailingSVLynx]

We'll do our best.

[@curtbrown9702]

@@SailingSVLynx your doing good, its just that your office vids are ..acted.. your not actors, please just be you. Talk without a script.