Kitchen Island Code Change Suggestions from Me to the NEC for 2024

[@foxinbox500]

Amen to all that

[@Eddy63]

I whole heartedly agree with your recommendation ... Safety 1st and remember , Happy Wife , Happy Life

[@SparkyChannel]

There you go! Absolutely correct!

[@garydudgeon]

Well done Sparky...really need outlets on the island.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Gary!

[@HRConsultant_Jeff]

Good for you. Sometimes you just have to take a shot and hope someone is listening.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Jeff! I would say that I'm proposing a solution as opposed to just griping about it. LOL!

[@mikieboyblue]

Thank you so much for taking the time to write to the NFPA. The only item I see for concern with the suggestion is the illegal nature of recepticals at the end or under the counter. In many designs this would require a bar top to be built or for a counter top receptical to be used. The bar top adds a lot of cost by many trades. The countertop receptacle comes with it's own safety hazards.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@phi5head]

They already made receptacles below the work surface illegal in the 2023 code.

[@SparkyChannel]

What article is that?@@phi5head

[@phi5head]

@@SparkyChannel 210.52(C)(3)

[@SparkyChannel]

210.52(C)(3) is under (C) Countertops and Work Surfaces. Therefore, you can't put a countertop or work surface receptacle on the end of the cabinet. I don't think 210.52(C)(3) prohibits any receptacle (non countertop or work surface use) to be put on the end of the cabinet of an island or peninsula. Think of a receptacle put there for roombas and the like.@@phi5head

[@zerosparky9510]

Years ago. there was a battle over the outlets installed below the countertop. was because of a lawsuit from a couple. their kid grabbed a coffee pot and , plugged in below the counter top. pulled it off with hot coffee. kid got real burned. they sued. the elec contractor said he had to because of code. so the battle was over to remove those below the counter top. i like your idea. some way put them above.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, that's why I'm saying to get rid of the below the countertop end-of-cabinet receptacles. They are a hazard IMO.

[@YourFavouriteComment]

​@@phi5headan island without a receptacle is just an expensive table. Useless from a kitchen point of view. People these days have so many gadgets that need power

[@phi5head]

@@YourFavouriteComment I agree. Islands should have receptacles.

[@zerosparky9510]

@@phi5head thanks. I need to get the new nec. Still working some. But slowed down a lot now.

[@SparkyChannel]

Good luck! @@zerosparky9510

[@luislazogue8089]

It’s a good motivation to send proposal for code changes, some times codes doesn’t make too much sense.

[@SparkyChannel]

So true!

[@mgraen]

St. Paul MN, when adopting 2023, added language to clarify this section in their permits. They require wiring to be brought into the cabinets and into a covered box inside.

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent! The original code 210.52(C)(3) was subject to all sorts of interpretations on that subject, so I'm glad they clarified that.

[@Bluesman57]

I think your suggestion is a good one, the wind up cord idea will never fly, very cost prohibitive and hard to enforce. Since as others have stated the NEC is the bare minimum. These counter top receptacles, unless the homeowner is aware that they are not required, they will never know to ask to have them installed. I therefore think the NEC should go back to the way it was under 210.52(B)

[@SparkyChannel]

Most new countertop appliances already have internal cord wind-up systems. You push the extra cord into them. The idea is just to avoid the possible danger of someone getting caught up in an overly long cord and perhaps knocking over a coffee pot or something. True, most new homeowners will have no idea that they are provided with the wiring for a receptacle but no receptacle. lol!

[@tiggeroush]

All of our customers that are building new homes have asked for the receptacles, not knowing they were already required. (We are on the 2020 code with 2017 code for residential; short version of the story, If you want the long version look up North Caroline code requirements.)

[@SparkyChannel]

Best wishes when you are working with the 2023 codes. :)@@tiggeroush

[@tiggeroush]

@@SparkyChannel thanks, I can use them.

[@Heizenberg32]

Your suggestion about promoting built in cord wind-up features is sensible. The problem is the NEC has no authority over manufacturers for appliances, extension cords, etc.

[@SparkyChannel]

True. Perhaps some influence though?

[@T100ley]

I despise the idea of having to have outlets built into the top side of the countertop just waiting for water to get down that receptacle cut out and down in the cabinets would be an utter nightmare. Only way that I can see that working is if there’s some type of waterproof or highly water resistant gasket that keeps a tight seal when the outlet is and is not in use.

[@libertarian1637]

Just my 2¢ but NEC is “Minimum” code; I rarely ever do the minimum and have never gotten a complaint that I did too much. Frankly one can rarely have too many receptacles. I do agree that I do not like receptacles bellow the counter top, provided there isn’t enough above the counter receptacles. I have had good luck with under the counter receptacles as people seem to like them for roombas and the like. Though I also do 2 gang boxes above counters and always put USB outlets in convenient areas, which really cut down on clutter.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@saulgoodman2018]

I don't have an island, but I would want an outlet at each end of the countertop.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Saul!

[@zerosparky9510]

i have one for you. look at your male 120volt cap. that you plug into a outlet. overseas that cord cap has insulated blades. you can,t get it pluged into the outlet and get shocked through the blades. don,t see anyway to get that changed though. cost would be out the roof.

[@SparkyChannel]

Interesting, thanks!

[@pudicus2]

I like your suggestions, however without having some kind of strict rules on how sturdy the wind-up cord mechanism has to be, I suspect a lot of cheap implementations will cause a lot of small appliance waste.

[@SparkyChannel]

Good point. Some countertop appliances have better cord roll-up mechanisms than others. And some older appliances don't have any roll-up mechanisms.

[@jimk5307]

The other reason an island needs an outlet is for phones and tablets. Everyone sits there and works or plays. What about only allowing USB under the countertop?

[@ronbonick4265]

I like the new code change.. why? You can't stop stupid, I've never seen an extension cord in a kitchen and in TN there is no island code rule. ( the state used their brain and said it not required.. Its an island which means its not the main countertop The cook has other places to use appliances... Some islands have Not backsplash, and absolutely no way to run wiring without rebuilding the cabinet ,,, So I like the change .. someones wifey can move her big butt to the other side of the countertop and use the receptacles

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@Guardducks]

The NEC is going backwards and starting to scare me. No receptacles required now for a countertop but were required in 2020 and no nail plates if using PVC in walls . So the customer who has no knowledge of the importance of wire gauge will go to the local .99 cent store and buy a bunch of lamp cords to power their coffee maker from the livingroom or bedroom. Why are they going in reverse ?

[@SparkyChannel]

I agree in that I think we should go back to the 2020 NEC for 210.52(C)(2). The 2023 changes are going backwards IMO.

[@swfloridabassfishing1117]

What if it has a sink? does that change the requirement?

[@SparkyChannel]

All of the rules re distance from sinks would have to be followed.

[@tedmcdonald3377]

😎⚒️😎⚒️😎

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Ted!

[@thomaswayneward]

I think the entire NEC code should be done away with. All of it.

[@SparkyChannel]

Got it. Thanks Thomas!

[@ronbonick4265]

If were worried about kids I would prefer a kid get tangled up in an extension cord then to Grab the cord to an appliance ( IE a HOT CROCKPOT) and pull the pot down on themselves. Having receptacles on an island adds more places for appliances for kids to grab a hold of cords. More receptacles more problems especially on islands