Knee Gives His Verdict on Tekken 8

[@ReiPlush_MH]

My least favorite part about T8 is that winning doesn't feel very good. I don't feel like i "outplayed my opponent" it's mostly that I executed my aggression and the opponent simply couldn't handle it. What exacerbates this is the amount of one-and-done'ing. If i lose, they don't rematch. If i win, they don't rematch. All the complexity and depth is gone. My favorite part about Tekken was always adapting over very long sets. 10,20,30 matches against the same opponent. Without that this game (online anyways) has been reduced to being cheap as hell.

[@kanoball3391]

Yh man the no rematch thing is so annoying its making me stop playing ranked and just focus on private sets btw want to play lol im fujin rank

[@henryludvor6275]

Know what feels worse than winning.... losing. Know what feels worse than losing... Playing Tekken 8!

[@HemTight]

T8 is too volatile. One n dones are the result

[@MasterLive123]

Tekken 7 forever

[@ab3xr]

Feels like they turning this game into a 2D game

[@Sh4kyyy]

The mechanics allowing every character to turn into a rushdown character and apply forced 50/50's at will is the core of the problem IMO. It takes away from character diversity and gameplay diversity in favor of offensive rushdown.

[@lilbongchainz2870]

Exactly this. I really hope they change it asap and bring back character diversity

[@finnt4937]

And its the core of the game. Probably wont change, at least not much. I am not a competitor, so for me its „okay“. But yea.. i guess they have to wati for t9 , see ya in 6 years.

[@Acrophyllia]

yeh exactly. feels like anyone could win a tournament if they're lucky enough lol. Just forced 50/50 situations. Pretty boring

[@Baobao-qf3wv]

@@finnt4937 more like 10 years

[@Samaelx.]

Sure kid 😂

[@nickkiller-0710]

T8 was pretty much made to not allow Knee and Arslan to do what they used to do, just imagine seeing a game being made a specific way just because the Devs don't like how your gameplay looks on a tournament stream lol

[@jeromenelson4093]

To be fair I think that’s every Tekken, but the balance this time seems too skewed

[@jasonmontoya4749]

And to be honest T8 is better for many players. (Like me) a Hwoarang player KBD in T7 made any of my strings worthless. As they just KBD out of all my options. At least now they have to do proper defense of flash duck, block or SS to stop a string. Diago was elite back In the day, rare players stay elite game to game as games change. Still better than I’ll ever be but just because you’re not dominating it’s a bad game…. Ok… whatever.

[@Spades20XX]

I don’t think a new game should allow the pros to do what they “used to do”. I think they should adapt or die. The question is, is the game pushing the series forward? I still think it’s too early to say “yes”. I’m not gonna dog pile a game I enjoy just because last games pros don’t enjoy it like I do. Maybe their time is up and a new champion takes their place.

[@jeromenelson4093]

@@Spades20XX You under-estimating just how much work these pro's put into Tekken. They all "adapt or die" in general for every single game and every single patch. As Spag pointed out in the video - Knee is usually adapting to every Tekken without this level of criticism. The fact that he is making a tweet like this - says something about the game in general. And IMO - it is these pro's and the arcade scene that they played in which has made Tekken as successful as it is, so to dismiss these opinions would be kinda fucked.

[@willyfauzan1426]

@@Spades20XX But the problem is, Tekken is already exist for over 30 years, and core tekken is almost the same for 30 years, if you play defensive, you're good, and then, for some reason after 30 years, they suddenly changed how the game played??? Its just like telling someone "You need to breath using your mouth now"

[@aqueelkadri8371]

People need to understand that Knee is the same guy who was beaten in Tekken 7 by an unknown young guy from a country that was unheard of at the biggest stage twice (Evo japan and Evo 2019) and his response wasn't to just whine or complain about it. His response was to go to that country and learn about their style and adapt and evolve. Knee is not the kind of guy who won't go to lengths to understand and adopt a new style of play to improve himself. The main problem the pros have with Tekken 8 is that theres no clear way to prepare for winning at this game. One day you can beat someone and the next day they can beat you and both victories can be convincing and leave both players confused. On top of that, professional players, unlike us; are staking their livelihoods and legacies on this game and it's just filling the pros with this uneasiness like, "No matter how much I prepare or how good I get, I can lose in the tournament and I won't even know what I did wrong." For us casuals however, these same aspects of Tekken 8 might be what makes it fun. Being able to beat someone as an underdog, circumventing the need to be a god at defense by just smothering your opponent with your character's unstoppable offense, being outplayed and pressured by your opponent but then using the mechanics of the game to turn the tides and mount a comeback. But even with all of that being said and Knee openly admitting that he has not figured out this game, he will still Whooop all our butts a 100 straight times without dropping a single round. He is just saying he doesn't know how to win against professionals.

[@c16621]

Keep in mind that the last tournament Arslan Ash was in, HE CAME IN 33rd, AND GOT BEAT BY SOME RANDOM SCRUB. Facts are facts. The ability to cheat the mechanics of the game, coupled with the bugs in the moves (Azure WR 3, 2 first nerf ATTEMPT), plus character balance issues (Asuka for example) is leaving the experienced players hanging in the wind. It’s the EXPERIENCED, vet, pro, and character specialists that will be the only ones left supporting this game in a year. Namco forgets that. These scrubs will be gone in 8 months-then where will Namco be? All these smart mouth scrubs don’t realize that they will be gone as soon the first set of nerfs get to Tekken 8. I’ve played ALL of Tekken 5 (when Ling was sh!t, ALL of Tekken 7 (When I MAINED LARS), and now my character that I love is rendered BRAINDEAD in Tekken 8. I WISH I NEVER HEARD OF DEN 3 IN MY LIFE🤬……The most USELESS, INCOMPETENT BUFF IN TEKKEN HISTORY.

[@calixbessanh3223]

That’s the not the same situation. That’s 4 years after the game came out. Mans had 2 years in arcades before the game officially came out to play. He likely complained the same way he is complaining now it’s just everyone can feel vanilla tekken at the same time for once. Knee and arslan are gonna be one of the best or if not the best again they just take longer to adapt it seems like to me. I don’t know why people act like new bums are coming in and winning tourneys or placing in top 8. It’s all tekken 7 players go see tns top 8 every week it’s not random players. The dojos last week those players were good at tekken 7. Some people just take longer to adapt. Knee can say the game is bad and it’s valid but I don’t like that people turn around and act like new bums are coming in. It’s same damn players just some people adapt faster

[@u.k221]

You don't know Knee is beat by Bushin often thesedays :D

[@nerooyeye2196]

​@c16621 you seem really pissed at the game and rightfully so, but let's just give the game some time while still voicing our complaints so that they know what we don't like. Also, I know DEN 3 is braindead, but it doesn't mean that the character itself is braindead, I mean devil jin has the most braindead heat smash in the game, but the character itself isn't braindead

[@alexandraalmagest]

​@calixbessanh3223 It doesn't matter if the game just came out. Most if not all pros have the same sentiment and analysis of the game, it's oppressive. Just think about it, pros who are so much better than us have come to the same conclusion, what could that mean?

[@Gauze-sb2fo]

I experience frustration more than fun when i play Tekken 8. In Tekken 7 i could lose 20 times in a row and feel fine about it because I got outplayed and had a lot to learn still. In Tekken 8 there’s too much BS and a lot of the times you don’t even get to play the game.

[@newphonewhodis7152]

I Just said that as well. Im not sure if its just the non stop hate the game gets or uf i actually dont really enjoy it

[@lilbongchainz2870]

I definitely don’t enjoy it. I can manage about 3/4 games at a time then I need to turn it off. I used to enjoy a whole night of tekken 7

[@superbadisfunny]

Y'all really don't want to adapt smh

[@AZAZEL_TK]

All three of you are weak

[@PSNDarkSouL]

@@superbadisfunnyadapting doesn’t fix the problem of the game buddy.

[@loto7197]

The skill level of tekken has been dropped through the floor - offense is much easier to utilize than defence in tekken, defence was always the hallmark of seasoned players in previous games while mix ups and mashing were mostly the hallmarks of new or casual players. The thing that puzzles me is that the forced 50/50 situations everyone complained about with t7 akuma are now present with every character in certain situations in t8. The tekken team are shooting themselves in the foot because the reason so many of us are interested in tekken is the time it takes to actually improve that defensive skill such as whiff punishment, movement and most of all, patience. Many of us are only playing T8 now because of the time we have already invested in improving

[@henryludvor6275]

NOBODY is playing tekken 8 because its fun. People are playing it because that's where the potential money is, nothing else. If TWT didn't exist, then this game would have lasted a maximum of 3 weeks.

[@thomasshepard7891]

You lost me at mixups are mostly for new players. Also, why are we assuming that defense isn't just harder in Tekken 8 than it was in 7? It takes more time to optimize counterplay than to run setups so offensive play will always have an advantage at the start of the game. The characters might be the same but all of their moves are different. Pros still aren't doing optimal punishes etc.

[@LegendaryArchiver]

Yes, akuma's forced 5050 is on everyone. Not only that, everyone also has meter. But akuma never had a lightning fast 1 button, full-screen launcher with combo like Dj. This is absurd. Drag, Feng, Azucena, Reina and the list goes on.. Wtf do they want us to do? Enjoy this mess?

[@DillFill-oi7hc]

Literally was thinking today if I should re buy Tekken 7 or tag team 2 when ever I get cheesed the f out in Tekken 8 and I don't wanna deal with casual friendly stubs, they either have to nerf tf out of rush or at least remove that BS out of ranked, let the casuals play CASUAL QUICK MATCH and stay trash if they want too, and let the actual people who want to get good play rank with no rush. Not only that they literally have to nerf rage arts so you can smack someone out of it, again at least in rank. F sake.

[@loto7197]

@@thomasshepard7891 because mix ups were never something good players relied on, defence poking movement and timing were what you used. Even kaz back in the day had to earn his mix up by using timing to catch someone dashing in or using movement to realign, which placed him at risk of getting hit for those few extra frames - we always respected kaz' 50/50 because it wasnt presented to him on a plate with a forced situation. Counterplay wasnt even necessary if your movement and intuition for stepping or placing counter hits was good, you could read someone and when they would press fairly quickly in t7, where as t8 just forces u to guess. Justify this however you want but anyone like tekken king and above that i played with in T7 hates this game, its only people who need a crutch saying its not that bad

[@alexzandermanning6094]

The problem with Tekken 8 is when I win it feels cheap. When my opponent wins I feel cheated . I rarely leave a game feeling like I outplayed my opponent when I can hit 1 button and get a garunteed 50:50 and if they guess wrong they die .

[@C_H_U_]

Every fighting game is like this, not just T8. I play SF6 and it’s the same thing. Mortal Kombat same thing. It’s not a tekken 8 thing. Early T7 was felt to same to me too. The game is still new and there is silt a lot of optimization and tweaking needed. The only thing i would say is that HEAT BURST needs to be nerf to balance the game.

[@JoeMurray5]

This game definitely feels like its aimed at more casuals - I would hate to be a competitor right now - hoping for a lot of nerfs

[@henryludvor6275]

I know many casuals that aren't having fun with this game. This game was aimed at blind naive gamers who bamco is looking to prey on for money through disgusting dlc and battle pass practices.

[@1AdA-Greats]

@@henryludvor6275sadly enough

[@epicon6]

Knee literally has money in the game. He is biased to his play style because this is not good for his defensive style, so it’s affecting his livelihood. So what he is saying can’t be taken without grain of salt

[@rustywrench500]

It is, the thing is they have no reference of knowing what is good or bad in the game so they don't care, but for most of us that have been playing for years will know that this isn't the tekken that we know and love, I hope they fix it because Harada is getting old an close to retiring, I hope that he doesn't just turn into a massive cash grab game in order to make money off of the broader spectrum of newer gamers.

[@kona7014]

@@epicon6please you guys cant keep saying this as if there arent thousands of legacy players who share the same sentiment - the issue is NOT that they MIGHT not be able to make money from the game. That’s a ridiculous thing to even think considering their previous adaptations to the new games. Please stop with this narrative and talk about the game in relation to it’s history.

[@DjGaiden]

You should be able to side step or side walk Heat Burst.

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

Then it would become a regular power crush.

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

Best solution will be it is minus on block

[@Hadoqueen888]

That & - ve on block +armored moves need tweaking too

[@BCannonThaMc]

YES

[@henryludvor6275]

The concept of Heat is one big giant mistake to begin with. Get rid of the mechanic and everything that it entails and the game improves by 70%. The remaining 30% is homing throws, laughably easy execution, wall blasts, and the existence of rage arts.

[@noob3765]

I really really dislike heat and nerfing it is imho much more needed than balancing singular characters.

[@henryludvor6275]

It needs to be removed. All aspects of heat - heat burst, heat engager, heat smash - are everything that tekken is not. Since this can never happen, We can only hope that Tekken 9 is around the corner soon. Unfortunately it looks like were in for the long haul. I expect a massive dark age for tekken for at least the next 5 years.

[@slippers8000]

Idk with so much changed too make buttons easier too press. Fast ch launchers made way worse. Armor moves better. Homing throws. Pokes into stance mix on block/hit buffed (frames). New moves with generous frames on block/hit. Perhaps if all of this wasn't pushed too allow more buttons, heat would be fine. At least that has a prerequisite/cost (hit a move/spend heat for dash) Meanwhile Lili can just 1,1. Reina ff2 into stance mixup making neutral so canned.

[@ItzNeverLupus]

@@henryludvor6275 are you stupid? If they removed all mechanics of heat then this would be an even wrose tekken game because if they did we would be playing a T7 (not even a T7.5) for another 6 or so years. No one wants to go back to T7 we just moved on from that. Go back to T7 if you want all mechanics of heat to be removed lmao not that hard of a decision to make.

[@WeMissDimebag]

Completely disagree. The heat system is fun but too hard to counter. Bursts and smashes need to be easier to counterplay and/or less rewarding, and heat dash at the wall should be less +, should stay only +5. Other than that I think heat as a system is fine. Changes are needed to both but character imbalance is a bigger issue than heat imo, that’s at least universal.

[@IvanOrdell]

Let's get back to the real world, I would love for heat to be removed but it won't be. It's what the whole game is about. They could nerf aspects of it tho.

[@kyokusada4825]

Opinion coming from red ranks. Feels like people are mashing for the most part. When I do fight somebody with amazing fundamentals it blows my mind because the match isn't even close due to their defense. My personal beef is mostly the chip damage. It took me a long time to be okay defense in Tekken 7, at least on the blocking front. Now I feel like this game punishes me for everything I learned in Tekken 7. I imagine this is how they feel

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

Bro, chip damage isn't even noticable because how much other shit is going on in the game. Heat engagers, Low counter git launchers, long range knockdowns and free mixups for certain characters even after block. I am purple rank and struggling massively against Low CH launchers.

[@Zaiberu_xay]

A lot of players are mashing especially in red ranks as someone who has been playing through red ranks with multiple characters and I think that’s also why alot of players are even stuck in that rank mainly which is garyu rank

[@Spades20XX]

All Red ranks mash though, ngl.

[@Zaiberu_xay]

@@Spades20XX true

[@MrDxfusion]

@@yellowscarlightningscream8347 Well you're obviously the problem there. Stop pressing so much, oh wait this is T8...

[@Gg.giantsfan]

I think the problem is the defense is not a quarter to the offense so you’r literally forced to stay in front of characters , I’ve side walked people thinking I’m good the last hit track me while his back turned and I die

[@sebbysmind]

and harada will still find a way to blame the community.

[@ZaibatsuuHQ]

And will put more bs into Tekken Shop so clueless casuals will support anyways. I'm literally thinking about uninstalling this game

[@BlackDillon]

Opinion from someone who played a LOT of T3 through T6, a little T7 and not any T8 yet... BandaiNamco has tried to make the game more fun to WATCH. People unfamiliar with how nuanced this game is will watch high level T5 and be like booooooring no flashy combos, no projectiles, no explosions, so much evasion and defence. But without any idea of how intricate, difficult and essential that evasion and defence is - to me it's like chess at 3000mph. T8 - personally speaking - seems to focus on being entertaining and accessible to anyone, which is great for sales and revenue and to get people interested... but has fundamentally strayed from what made the game so difficult to master in favour of what is essentially guessing and brute forcing situations when you have no right to. In previous games you had to risk something, pick an opening, space something perfectly... now you can ignore all that.

[@sakashimayokoshimahapofusagari]

well said👌🏽

[@jeromenelson4093]

+1 and it’s amazing you can figure that out without playing.

[@ATC43]

It's definitely this right here. Especially considering how some of these mechanics and system changes seem like they had no thought put into how they could negatively effect the meta of the game.

[@justinmorsheim3942]

I mean, it's not like there wasn't aggressive play in previous Tekkens. It was Tekken 7 specifically which promoted a very lame and passive playstyle, with all these ch launchers, magic 4s, low parry damage.

[@justinmorsheim3942]

And infinite stages

[@Ram2rol]

I've seen players at 21st Dan that don't know how to move. I don't see them getting there if it wasn't for the amount of plus frames and forced mixups that exist in T8. Not to mention "turn stealing" heat burst and armor moves. Feels like I'm playing a 2d fighter with the amount of hard reads that need to be done to stop someone's pressure.

[@loto7197]

Wtf is 21st dan

[@Ram2rol]

@@loto7197 fujin

[@loto7197]

@@Ram2rol ohh i understand now lol i thought was typo. Thx

[@CrapsGoodxD]

Its more heat burst, heat smash, rage art and the atrocious tracking hitboxes all together that make this feel quite unfun and unskillfull.

[@Quince477]

Hopefully after the balance patch things are better. Ik they said that they're looking to buff characters that aren't used much, but they really need to nerf the top tiers first. A reason why the other characters arent used much is bc the top tiers are just so strong. There's also the fact that some characters true potential hasn't been seen yet. It takes time to develop, playing around your character's weakness is much more difficult than playing a character with so many strengths.

[@Lahmeinthehouse]

Spag is actually more active .. finally time to subscribe 💫

[@I9IIEIIYIIEIIS]

if their motto is... "make casuals feel strong - make more money" then don't play their game.

[@Hypercube1729]

There's really not much to understand. Tekken 8 is truly broken. Too many characters can produce over-the-topp bullsh!t spammy attacks which is next to impossible to defend against. You just have to keep blocking or just hope to guess right. And even if you get an opening, they might just powercrush you and continue their flowchart. This is clearly an unfinished game and they will nerf alot of the game mechanics in next season. Characters are also not very well balanced. And STILL they buffed King and nerfed the bears...

[@hahaxd262]

get good man tf

[@joelchua1637]

If you'd think about it, every fighting games at the top level is a guessing game. Everyone knows your movesets from top to bottom and theres nothing you can do that they can't punish. So your input that too many characters have spammy attacks is just total utter bs and laughable

[@user-nt1yb5kr8x]

Tekken 8 is a "party game".

[@checkmate8849]

Strive was a party game too. Yet everyone played it

[@ItsDonBro]

Tekken 8 is Smash Bros on PS5

[@mechadeka]

@@checkmate8849 Explain how so.

[@henryludvor6275]

Party games are fun. Tekken 8 is a Party Misery.

[@HarmonicResonanceScale]

@@checkmate8849 guilty gear has always been broken as fuck. have you ever even seen +R? its a fucking nightmare at high levels.

[@AllThingsAction]

I legitimately believe the only issues are frame data and movement. I think adjusting these things properly literally fixes all the issues. The core mechanics are oppressive for these two reasons. This game has broken some core rules of Tekken balance design that should only sparingly be broken. Armor moves of any kind should be punishable on block. Armor moves should not lead to a combo outside of a wall, float, or tornado. Full launchers should generally be launch or knockdown punishable by most of the cast. Heavy frame advantage moves should generally be avoidable with movement. Execution should be strict on crouch dash and while running moves point blank. Generally no tracking mid should be plus on block. No move should be executable below 10 frames. (Heat Burst sneakily breaks this rule by freezing your opponent's animation.) I'm sure there are more than this, but you get the gist. It is all based around risk/reward which is horribly imbalanced in this game. We have seen in the past where a character breaking these rules breaks the game competitively. Tekken 8 is egregious in this aspect and it shows. Whether you enjoy the mechanical changes or not, the game is fundamentally imbalanced and needs a huge adjustment to fix. I want to love this game with all my heart, but I would be lying if I said it is well-designed in this aspect.

[@ATC43]

The part that makes it frustrating is that these dudes have been making this game for 30 years now and don't understand these basic concepts. It makes me fearful that they truly believe this is what makes Tekken/A FG fun. I just have to hope that it's a bunch of new designers figuring things out and that the May patch will take a step in the right direction... but I'm not holding my breath.

[@NyxDiscordia33]

"no move should be executable below 10 frames" I sure love when I'm fighting a yoshi and doing pretty well and then he just steals his turn back with a 9f flash basically kills me with one combo because of one mistake that I didn't even make

[@AvidExpert]

@@ATC43 Nah, I'll guarantee the devs on T8 are newer gen kids. The "I want all the reward without putting in any of the effort" screams it. But if I'm just being paranoid, Harada quite literally said they have a new generations of college grads and they are responsible for a lot of the systems Namco is also trying to westernize its values. If we had all the good old devs who worked for decades the game wouldn't have been in this state.

[@PlayWithThatBlackGuy]

​@NyxDiscordia33 First tekken huh It's 6-9f startup It's also a counter only soit won't hit you If you don't attack into it. In heat it does hit you normally buts it's 2f slower start up and minus 15 on block which means full punish. It's literally always been a 6-9f move since tekken 3. Also you did make a mistake you didn't respect yoshis flash. If yoshi uses flash a lot you start baiting it for punishes. Buddy I play lars flash was the bane of my existence until I just accepted the move isn't actually bullshit I'm just not respecting it. You know yoshi has it so you should respect and expect it

[@NyxDiscordia33]

@@PlayWithThatBlackGuy I said one thing to be funny jesus I've been playing since Tekken 7 and I know to bait it; it's just annoying on top of all the other things provided by Tekken 8 to randomly steal your turn back, y'know? I don't know if it was intentional, but your message came off as extremely condescending

[@coolamericano]

Tekken 5 DR and 6 were the pinnacle of true Tekken

[@Yeshua_is-Cool]

Yep and its dead

[@wserthmar8908]

@@Yeshua_is-Cool, praise God and His Son. Are you a Unitarian believer? I am a Unitarian believer.

[@zazenbo]

i miss my wife

[@AirLancer]

Me too.

[@Ozzable1]

Sorry I'll send her back right away

[@Spag_TK]

I miss her too

[@gilbertopadilla3611]

I miss my wife too.

[@erk8520]

@@Spag_TK 🤣🤣🤣

[@DarloAceOP]

Constant mix, mash, plus on block high damaging moves that have barely any repercussions. Safe wake up kicks, floor bounces, wonky hit boxes, oppressive top tiers, power crush heat engagers. The list goes on. Whats not to like?

[@coooolibri]

hi, ive been playing since tekken 1 and 2 on the ps1. i still own these old games. ofc im not a pro, so thats why people dont take your opinions serious sometimes. for me personally, and i have 1500 hours in t7, this isnt tekken anymore the way i used to fall in love with. you can call me stubborn to not be open for new, but i already had to get used to a lot of things when starting t7. this game here i dont even gonna buy anymore. when they revealed all this and their idea behind it it was very very clear to me, and i was vocal about it for months that if the design the game like that, where is the space and chances to go def, and block? there is nearly no room for it. many things in the game are literally just to easy to press a button and put your enemy in a predicament. like other guys said here: every clown already could spam from tag2 and tekken 7, and now they actually design the games nowadays so you more and more dumb down on the mechanics and the skill aspect. when you got into games years ago you had to grind, understand the mechanics and finetune your skills.

[@itlogboy]

Tekken 8 definitely still requires skill but less so than tekken 7 with the heat system and all the nerfs to defenses and movement. I was only orange rank on tekken 7 but have managed to reach bushin so far in tekken 8.

[@DjGaiden]

A bigger part of this “rank inflation” was a new player influx and not being able to get demoted until Yellow rank. That offset a lot of things in this game.

[@drewgunner14]

That's crazy. You're only orange in tk7 and BUshin in 8. this game gives everyone a dopamine dump by thinking "oh I'm in red so Im doing great!" type of mindset but everybody just mashing even on purple ranks.

[@kylefields3951]

When they got into the game matters a lot. There weren't too many Players left in the Yellow, Orange, Red, or Purples in 2022 and onwards. It was possible they couldn't Rank up without it being a complete chore to wait all day for a Match. In Tekken 8 there are a bunch of Matches because it's new. It's also important to consider that there are significantly less Ranks in total.

[@idkwhattoputhere5047]

I agree. No joke, I was green rank in Tekken 7. The fights in Tekken 7 felt intense since you always had to be adapting. Hell, majority of times your flowchart wouldn’t even work. Now in Tekken 8, I’m Tekken king. It seems as if people rely on heat, and their flowcharts instead of playing strategically.

[@MJfp6lx]

In my opinion. Tekken 8 doesn't really have a category audience. It doesnt fit into the legacy pro players approval like knee and Arslan. It's also not for the casual newbies like Leffen. The game is currently in a weird state where it doesn't want to be the ultra high level tekken 7. But it also doesn't wanna overtune some of the characters like tekken 5 and allow freedom of movement. On top of that the heavy nerfs for low tier and barely any nerfs for high tier characters alongwith copyright strikes for modders and leniency with plugged and DLC privileges are killing the game before it takes off. With the current set up if evo turns out to be another Leroy 7 with Dragunov feng Azucena then its Ggs for this game.

[@antoniobanderas5316]

I agree, with knee. Its a option select simulator. Not much in between. The nuance is out of the window.

[@finnt4937]

There is no good way to fix this. Take fengs 3+4 in heat. What are you gonna do? Make it less plus? How much less? To the point where you have a true option select sidestep, so its nothing but empty pressure? They wont do it. The move is exactly designed to do what is does. They will not change that, not for the sub 0,1 % tournament players.

[@Nico-tz7ut]

remove feng from gaem BASED

[@NemoRackkz]

Translation "Im not winning tournaments" CBM just won the recent ATL Tournament with Jin....

[@NeilMacay]

I think another thing not mentioned in the whole fun debate of the game is the offline/online aspect. I've definitely enjoyed playing T8 a lot more offline than I have online. Obviously not worrying about netcode quality offline is a thing but also the issue with pluggers/cheaters and how the ranked system works. The fact TWT only started last weekend means a lot of players haven't experienced the game offline a lot if at all.

[@salutcava2262]

Thta not an issue for pro like Knee and Arslan they play most of their games offline against other pros and friends

[@Phurzt]

My change to improve the game would basically turn heat back into rage drive, but keep the utility of heat burst and heat dash. Basically, you start a round with both, but no more heat engagers, and also no unique heat perks. Aswell, if you spend your one heat use, you also lose access to rage art. It would be a 1 and done charge that can be spent 3 different ways. I honestly like the utility added with heat, but yeah, considering tekken is kind of known for rounds that only require a player to make 2 mistakes to lose, i think its really dumb that they added all these different ways to force a mistake and you can do multiple of them per round.

[@ntalottantalotta9114]

U don't need balance when 2 buttons alone can take away 80% of ur hp. All this game is, stealing wins

[@Rafael57YT]

Omg this is what I've been thinking, perfectly put into words. A lot of my wins feel stolen. I do a combo and I feel "this shouldn't have killed, lol" I do a heat smash and I'm like wow, that round was SO SHORT

[@ntalottantalotta9114]

@Rafael57YT in my first week I had a game where I got like 2 pokes on the guy. I was at the wall hp deleted just a pixel. Woke Ra then heat smashed afterwords 1 jab and a df2 later I won. I laughed so hard

[@stylez9796]

I absolutely agree with Knee. When the game first released, I immediately gave my take on it that Tekken 8 was simply a broken Tekken 7 with flashy lights. My opinion hasn’t changed, and I’m glad to see that Knee and even Arslan as well have come to realize that Tekken 8 has a lot of issues.

[@walthuuuuu]

Me personally, I only like Tekken 8 more because of the netcode, the stages + their music, and the top notch graphics. But if we had Tekken 7 with those aspects I think I would much prefer that than what we have now with Tekken 8. I'd say keep the movement from that as well as the banger stages and implement it in Tekken 7 and we'd have the perfect Tekken game for everybody. Oh, and infinite rematching as an option for ranked would be nice to have again.

[@lazytommy0]

i agree. i think great care must be taken in balancing for these new mechanics to work correctly. some things do need to change like homing throws. mostly its just the absurd offense of the top 10 or 15 characters. fix the top tiers and see how it goes

[@arturiaarthus8367]

i'm currently Kishin, and the only time i had fun with Tekken 8, was at an offline tournament. Then somebody picked Jun and Dragunov, and i stopped having fun there, too.

[@mappybc6097]

Tekken players are also not used to drastic changes. We had been playing essentially the same game for over a decade. The differences between T5 DR, T6, and T7 were not that big all things considered. Last time a Tekken sequel altered gameplay drastically was Tekken 4, a game considered by many as the worse in the series.

[@WTFWILLYUM]

As a person whos in Tekken King I think there's a lot wrong about tekken 8. I think it's such an unrewarding game because I remember in Tekken 7 when I played sharp I was able to beat a lot of players. Throwing out Magic 4s and just having really good timing on my opponent was a skill itself. In tekken 8 they made it way too spammy with offense. We have some ridiculous strings, and everyone has a 50/50 for the most part. I think theres also a huge issue with the mechanics and I dont know why people are so afraid to talk about it. Heat System is legitimately broken. Back in Tekken 7 at least you'd have access to rage when you were near losing so at least it was only towards the end of the round you'd have to start factoring in rage drives/rage art moves. Now in tekken 8 the heat system is a constant factor. Not only does heat smash do a lot of damage for how fast it activates, but you can also get crazy wall travel with it now too. and heat activation is super OP with its range, plus frames, and your options on activation. It dominates the neutral way too much. No offense to Spag but I dont know why people act like tekken doesnt have a mechanics issue.

[@straightlead8]

Tekken 7 was a masterpiece

[@aldrinperez5670]

I agree with Knee! Been playing srsly since T5DR and I don't feel the need to buy T8 just yet

[@theftking]

To be honest, T7 was not a fun game to watch unless you played it yourself, and that's bad for a game's popularity. Guys dodging around for 50 seconds and then losing the round on one mistake isn't super interesting.

[@palim-ux9ry]

Its in such a weird Spot..it always feels like the opponent playes with training wheels. Its so weird that you have to be on high alert allthe time. Fullscreen rageart, full to mid screen heatsmash, tracking throws, tracking heatburst, absurd tracking on certain heat engager, missing Inputs on throwbreak or blocking, pokes that almost Do combo Dmg and the list goes on and on. As a tournament Player myself mostly defensive and counterhit oriented i total understand knee and arslan. I think tekken 8 will have so many new superstars but sacrificed all those legacy players. They New guys might be better at tekken 8 but not at tekken if it makes any sense

[@zbarneyz]

Its not just knee and arslan, its a huge percentage of the playerbase. I really want to like Tekken 8 but i just cant. And i dont think Bandai will listen to the negative feedback at all and instead label it all as hating.

[@ICEMAN-Z8]

Even if they listened there nothing they can do about it, the whole system of the game is BS. They will sell a bunch of copies bcoz the game is still new and ppl wanna try it but also ppl r gonna drop it much faster than they think. This game will never surpass T7.

[@ATC43]

​@ICEMAN-Z8 Namco are in for a rude awakening big time if they don't make patched to address all these complaints about the gameplay. The pros and content creators(less so since they don't want to step on the toes that feed them) are the ones who set the narrative for your COMPETITIVE game. I think they've forgotten that this is a competitive game and if those people are shitting on it, everyone else will see it as a joke competitively. Which TBH, T8 is right now. It sucks, because T7 was in my top 5 favorite FGs eve. But I called this shit happening back when they first announced the mechanics for T8. Like you said, they are definitely in for a rude awakening when this game underperforms T7.

[@ICEMAN-Z8]

@@ATC43 I can’t believe im saying this but i wish tekken 8 fails, its not even close to wt tekken is.

[@henryludvor6275]

@@ICEMAN-Z8 This... exactly this. This game cannot be saved. No amount of balancing or adjustments will ever change how dumb the heat system is. This is why I'm not for saving the game, i'm for letting it die outright. Start from the drawing board and look for something in Tekken 9.

[@liabilitylinda3501]

​@@ICEMAN-Z8they definitely can do something about ity the issue is that they won't

[@bbwolf326]

As a person who also has played since 1...I have been struggling with not enjoying this game as well. Obviously I'm no high level player, but when you spend a good chunk of your life learning a game that allowed you to play how you wanted (to a reasonable degree) and then to be forced to play in a style that is uncomfortable, new move patterns that erases the muscle memory you've built up, and systems that override your knowledge, and skills advantages...bro it's tough to enjoy.

[@darthelena6785]

With heat smash, rage arts... sometimes it feels like a throwing magical powers game more than a fighting game. Like wizards and spells. In some rounds it's more than the 50%of the damage done.

[@Kenkyou_Nogata]

One of the few things I also started to hate about the game. A lot of the cast now has superpowers or long range weapons/reach it's absurd. Visually it looks like a whole different game compared to T7 and before. More like watching 3D Street Fighter. While also the snowball is insane. Even if you have characters like King on one pixel of health left while in full health. They do one throw, one heat engager and a heatsmash and I am dead. Everything tracks so I can't step anything. I also can't duck or DF1/DF2 because the heat engangers are usually fast mids or armor super fast high, the smashes are so fast you never know what to do and it's prevalent throughout the game. Honestly I hate it.

[@amamu-ef8zm]

Tekken 8 is not fun at all … it’s frustrating when It’s not about mind game anymore it’s about smashing buttons and eating all the power !! No more iron fist

[@geheimen]

heat bar should be once a match, that way they dont have to nerf heat itself and it can remain powerfull. But to have it every round is really too much imho

[@franksterkb891]

many tekken players said that ttt2 was the worst tekken ever. i think t8 is climbing up the lead

[@henryludvor6275]

Tekken 8 surpasses every tekken exponentially for worst tekken ever. In fact all tekkens since 5DR suck, but Tekken 8 is on a whole new level that it's insulting to the tekken brand as a whole.

[@DillFill-oi7hc]

I never understood why the derpy Tekken fan base said tag 2 was bad, game was so complex and filled with so many combo possibilities it was and still is ahead of its time for sure, but the Tekken community didn't like it because it was complex so yea it's because of them that Tekken continues to turn more easy and casual tard friendly, the majority of the Tekken community are trash bag rejects and tards.

[@MJfp6lx]

Let's go to the expert opinions in the comments section.

[@TonyTheTGR]

Knee not being as good at T8 is not surprising, it's an incredible departure and the offensive momentum in this is only rivaled by that in Tag 2 or maybe Tekken 3. Ash not being as good at T8 however, is a bit of a surprise to me since he comes from a KoF background; and the new mechanics have great parallels to KoF mechanics; they're just metered. I do think there's *extremely strong character attributes* in most of the cast, and some of these are proving to be more advantageous than others - but it's also equally possible that underrated characters may also have crazy/good tech that we just haven't had time to explore, yet. I think this previous patch - getting rid of only the most egregious of outlying conditions - is the appropriate move to make, at least before EVO Japan; but I would also hold off another 3-4 months to see if there's further tech to discover in underdog characters, or to see if players adapt in these matchups better. If Xiaoyu's Phoenix Stance, for instance, has to be hit low and you have to master low attacks to counterplay her, this is acceptable. If it, however, is *still invincible against low attacks* - then THAT is a bug that needs ironed out. The extreme character expression, I feel, is *what makes Tekken 8 fantastic* so far, and I'd ironically like to see that *expanded upon.* If anything, buff underdog characters, rather than nerfing top tiers; unless this really leads to one-touch situations.

[@loxzone1]

They not primarily focused on their defense, they just have better defense than most.

[@JPROP-vb7sv]

I called out the heat system last year before the game even released. I got a TON OF HATE from people back then. I think it's funny I was right. Saw it from a mile away. Gamers need to remove the rose colored glasses, glad to see people speaking out now. Game needs massive balance patches to even be playable. Evo is gonna be a joke.

[@OthonvonSalza]

In Tekken 7 you can relax. Tekken 8 feels like if you are in a tournament... Not because of complexity, difficult combos and shit... It's because of the aggression and fucking pressure. There's really no fun. Just beating this shit out of each other. I get so tense my whole arm hurts. I ain't pro so why this game forces me to play on a pro level? Once I pass the violet ranks, I just keep going back to them. UP and DOWN .. UP and DOWN cause I'm too weak. And I'm fine with that. On lower ranks I could utilize every single thing I learned. I went to Training... launched Punishement Training, understood that I forgot to properly punish opponents with one counter hit and shit. Went back and practiced that one thing. On higher ranks one fking second, one missed punch, hit, shit and you can lay back and watch Steve combo you all the way to KO. And I can't get back to lower ranks when I can just play for fun. IN Quick matches i get players in my rank and I can win only 40 % of these matchups. I'm taking a break from this game.

[@aZ1d]

Definitly like superakuomas take on how to fix a bunch of the overwhelming offense. Make heat burst and heat smash (mids) - on block (like -9 so its not a steal back your turn thing more of a looming threat) and make throws linear again. Also some minor balance nerfs to the toptiers, then we gucci. PS. Screw kings damn jaguarstance, nothing in the game tilts me more.

[@jaredsamane5660]

I got scammed when I heard movement is good on Tekken 8, there's homing throws, tracking mids, and true 50/50s where you can only block mid or low. I feel like Tekken 7 had better movement game before the god forsaken DLCs came. I'm an aggressive player myself and I really love seeing good players counter offense with movement, but instead we have an offense oriented game where there are plus on block mids that tracks you on the other side of the screen. I just want Tekken to have really good movement again for all characters and less button-mashing, homing moves exist now so why not have better movement.

[@SilentLegion7]

I agree with him, I could tell just by seeing them play the first time ever it was more focused on being aggressive, and also new players. Its hard and I mean hard to beat a person with near Godlike def but its also so rewarding. They made it to where to me you gotta leave def away and one key factor is chip dmg. I honestly don't know why that's a thing and using the heat to get a chunk of health back and pressure. When I saw from like gameplays before release you can gain health back and chip damage. I knew it was bad lots of top players will dislike it, but as I believe their focus is more now new players cause new people tend to really not care about def and try to just go brrr. If they wanna please everyone I'm sure they can make a new mode to feel like Tekken 7 for pro players cause to be honest the fact that they made sick plays and go so crazy in those tournaments is really the reason Tekken on the map so high up. So make a mode where they can rely on def again from all this aggression, to me its to much aggression too with little to no def so its unnecessary, make it no chip dmg, nerf heat in it or remove it or somehow make some defensive heat moves to cancel out the aggression. Lots more but that's all I'll say for now.

[@casualmonger]

A lot of things needs to be balanced and changed- heat system, homing/ unbreakable throws, heat smash. Hoping to see big changes after Evo Japan. Treat this like a transition from windows 10 to windows 11- a lot of things changed but once things are fixed or patched it's gonna feel better...hopefully

[@ayosgsauce]

Throws beat PowerCrush and Heat Burst, what's the big deal? Power Crush Heat Engagers combined like Eddy's b+3+4 is pretty overpowered though. Heat Burst is fine as an offense tool because it stops someone's overwhelming offense which is needed.

[@mstrikerwildrift]

Its not about the balance, its the core game itself. You either mash yourself into a win, or try blocking and die.

[@PitFitHuntFan]

Love tekken 8… Reminds me of the tekken 3 and tekken tag days which for me was the most immersive along with tekken 5 Dr. Even enjoyed playing mini local tournies on tekken 3 Arcade Cabinets with chip damage turned on… probably a factor why i Like tekken 8. This aggressive Style brings out new players as well as the old ones like me who lost some interest but still played tekken 6 and 7. I own all versions of tekken too so far i have no complaints even when i get pummeled by high level OP easy to use characters… im the type who stick to the hard to use technical characters… not a pro though and i don’t rely on tekken for my income so i do get why the PROs like Knee and ash are frustrated by this game as you said because of their defensive play which the game does not reward ad much as offense. 😁

[@manjininja76]

I'd be very interested to hear how the devs decide which defensive tools (reversals/parries/sobaki's) are given to each character & how they weigh this against the offensive potential.

[@ZaibatsuuHQ]

Balance team is not intelligent enough to understand their own product so don't expect an analysis and changes that have sense.

[@manjininja76]

@ZaibatsuuHQ It seems like it! For example- King has to choose the correct reversal for punches vs kicks, yet Nina does not? Both characters have a strong throw game, Nina has better pokes & strings- but is weaker.

[@JohnWilliams-jr3xp]

Give ppl an opition in char select between heat or rage. Take away some unbalanced heat options and the amountnof time in heat, take dmg down, get rid of that absorb power crush safe bull, and bring back the ability to play someone more ghan twice would be a start. Then address these chars start by not making every char a 50 50 boss rushdown char.

[@1nnovator]

It's better overall for the health of a series to evolve and not be stagnant. Old players will move on eventually one way or another, and the game will new blood to survive. Should Bamco based the future of the franchise on top player feelings? I don't think so. The best thing Capcom does with Streetfighter is radically change the game with new installments. Does it piss off old players? Sure, but allows new players an easier entry point and gets rid of some of the legacy knowledge which allows new people to rise. That's why Streetfighter is the most interesting fighting game to watch imo because all the blood it has that's starting to make waves. Pakistan did this for the Tekken FGC as well. After watching Korea run wild for decades it was cool to see some new challenges appear and get some excitement back. If you want E-sports thing to blow up it needs new players to keep it interesting. If some don't like the game and movie on that's just life. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. What do you want Tekken to be?

[@digaum1657]

I just want tekken not to be a 50/50 festival where everyone has a 1 button move that does literally everything, can be used at any point in the match without wasting rage, does a ton a damage, and has no counter-play to it. (heat smash and heat burst). Am I crazy for wanting that? lol Rage drive was so much better, you had to choose between using rage art and doing a super cool and super powerful move. Now everything is free.

[@raheelali973]

Few years back in pakistan we use the term auto for players who use moves without any purpose. Now game is auto. Executive moves without any reason. As u r safe on block...

[@gilsonportoprado5644]

Well, in my humble opinion I play the game because I've always loved tekken, but I can't say that I'm not angry with these super characters, there has to be a balance in this game for sure!

[@BladeCuttervita]

I have always relied on my defense (and ability to create wif punishment situations when it came to Lei). I feel so handicapped in T8. My only good rush down character in T8 is Nina and I have completely had to change the way I would play with Jack in the past.

[@scruballicious7039]

This game has alot of potential imo, the next few patches could make this game amazing. I hope a season of twt will be able to point Bandi Namco in the right direction for changes.

[@johnsmoke1785]

In my humble noob opinion somehow the pro-scene didn't really adapt to the turn-stealing mechanics of Rage Arts in T7 and this just carries on to the turn stealing mechanics of Heat. While the lower ranks in T8 spam their heat as early as possible, some pros are sitting on their full heat bar and wait for a rainy day or something.. This is at least my observation. It's like they are still playing old tekken strategy and have a hard time to adapt the heat mechanic into their game plan. I mean sure, its not easy to change old habits and develop new strategies, but I hope the pros will adapt to it. Finally, lets keep in mind that T8 is still kinda in the "arcade stage" of its lifecycle compared to T7. T7 was really ugly balanced on arcades and it took some time to polish it (PC/Console release) to a somewhat balanced state (ignoring the DLCs..^^). While they have earlier access to data now with T8 (skipping arcades), they developers still need time to figure out a healthy game balance. Let's hope that these problems will be solved over time.

[@BetterFightz]

I think a backdash buff with a tuning down of the power crushes can bring back more options for defensive players

[@Jabermania]

I think a whole new game is needed

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

Certain characters are intentionally too strong because Bnamco want them to be played in tournaments. I don't see them getting major nerfs at all because this is a decision they made when designing the game. Feng, Dragunov, King, Jun, Jin, Ling, Devil Jin

[@wasdx-_9258]

Bamco crearly don't want DJ in tournaments, lol. After recent nerfs DJ popularity already fell hard, not to mention how devs treated him in T7. Jin isn't even close to top 5, so wrong again.

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

you are mistaken my friend, the lastest nerf was due to a bug. They never intended the scaling to rest after floor blast. Devil Jin launch trailer was the most hyped and the most over-advertised of all the characters. ​They want Devil Jin in tournaments as he brings a lot of new kids to the game.@@wasdx-_9258

[@yellowscarlightningscream8347]

​@@wasdx-_9258Check the character usage and you will see Jin in the top 5. He is the protagonist of the game and they want it to be marketed that way. The entire story is made for one character so they want him in major tournament as a selling point.

[@Gauze-sb2fo]

@@wasdx-_9258I hate to break it to you but Jin is a scrub character now. Has everything. Has no weakness that can be exploited. Anyone can pick up Jin and contend with experienced Tekken players.

[@wasdx-_9258]

@@Gauze-sb2fo that's not true. Everyone was hysterical about it before release and some time after, but now most people understand that Jin isn't even close to as strong as everyone thought. He isn't a character you will like to play against, but he is top 10 right now at best.

[@Brass_Heathen]

I definitely think that Tekken has shifted away from its core audience. That's really hard as a competitor. I know it's going to be a controversial opinion but I don't think that we need to nerf everything in the game to weed out the 50/50 I think we need to turn up the defense to 11 and buff other play styles (keepout, etc) give characters back there identities. Give bryan and lee back their keep out, help out poor steve (don't believe the hype he's in a bad state 😢and he did not translate well into the new system), allow people to counterhit and whiff punish. The reason is say this is because if we start nerfing things it makes the game impossible to balance especially will a lot of how the execution has been removed.

[@jenkins464]

Meh this offensive vs defensive false dichotomy is just corporate sugarcoating meant to justify the controversial changes to the game. This is about having a game that's more or less skillful, with the alternative being the increased randomness and mechanics that provide unearned advantages. People like Knee and Jdcr are not defensive players, they are as aggressive as you can be, but in the context of a game where not leaving yourself open was and should be a fundamental skill.

[@Viewer13128]

Spag, what do u mean "for defensive players"? Do you mean one aggressive pro can remain consistent at the top? Because right now the issue seems to be they can't since any other aggressive pro could decisively win on another day.

[@Spacemonkey1001]

The problem is also that there are no infinte stages. All the stages besides two are so small and cramped. One launch and you're carried to the wall and then stuck in a corner and just get mashed on and lose the round.

[@nx47]

Tbh there’s so many opinions floating around but I will die on a hill for this one… Heat burst should be -9 on block so you lose your turn and neutral on hit (and maybe only do grey damage ~10). No knockdowns or turn stealing. It’s too powerful and rewarding for a base mechanic that should AMPLIFY gameplay not completely takeover and REPLACE gameplay. It just feels like heat mechanics comes first and tekken gameplay comes second right now. Obviously this opinion is nothing more than the other million opinions on T8. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@BoMiles]

Great video!! Can’t wait to hear your take on Eddy!! 🔥🔥🫡🫡

[@symonheiloguu]

I've been saying this since since first week, it is a game that was made with casuals in mind. If you play as a casual is super fun, but if you wanna play technical, it's not fun

[@funkrates4778]

It’s been known well before 8 came out that it would be aggressive to the point that it would disallow hyper-defensive play. If Knee doesn’t change his attitude about the game, he won’t be competing anymore.

[@darksinz56]

The issue now is not about hyper defensive gameplay but more of a why do I bother defending? The game is too rewarding to people on the offense right now. Chip damage withering you down for blocking which u need to fight back to regain back the health but oh their move is + so its still their turn. Tracking on so many moves making side stepping lose its effectiveness. Lastly forced 50/50 for everybody just means you have to guess right or die. The game is not balanced right and the lack of counterplay doesn't help.

[@funkrates4778]

@@darksinz56 yeah. That’s true. This game is like a complicated rock paper scissors game to a degree. More so than most fighting games or at least previous iterations. I just played against a Law player and I had maybe a couple opportunities to punish him while he was doing his flow chart. Floor was too small though, and I was pushed up against the wall and died. I think that is a little TOO offensive TBH. that’s just an example.

[@dtndee]

man when ure gonna do the jdcr vs arslan in ttt2?

[@Tyrantdrache]

i feel like a lot of chars who had specific strengths and weaknesses got buffed to a point where theses weaknesses completely disappeared

[@chumorgan443]

"Rush down flowchart" the game.

[@superruikiri]

I just wish there were less 50/50 rushdown characters that need a crystal ball to fight against, specially because sidestepping is almost useless right now... the heat system i believe is alright although the hitboxes on a lot of the engagers are kinda crazy... BUT having power crushes, the heat engagers plus the rage arts.. its a little much... Tekken 8 most of the times, wether you win or lose, kinda feels like bullshit xb its hard to explain..

[@kahusay5379]

Korean back dash and side step nerf I heard. Powercrush now has lower frame to execute, +frame on blocks on heat engager/burst. T8 more on offensive style now.. that what's making it hard for defensive oriented players to adjust..but I think arslan and knee will adapts soon.

[@tokyobassist]

Both Street Fighter 6 and Tekken 8 has similar issues. - Both have significant riffs between gods and top tiers - They both have a serious "Single Player fighting game" problem with how matches play out. Once characters lack that resource (Heat, Drive Meter), then they have to fall back on their tools, which is where stuff like Dragunov and Luke start to become boss characters and only one person is getting mauled. Street Fighter 6 chose to expand on it's entire legacy while offering a fresh feel to it. Tekken 8 was like "Screw it. We got Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive and King of Fighters in this game." This is the biggest shake up the series had since 4 to be completely honest. The amount of new mechanics/moves here feels like something that would spaced out between games or these days, seasons. They crammed it all in day 1 and hoped for the best lol.

[@aledantih6524]

I'm not sure about Drag in T8 pro play right now but Luke is ever-present in SF6 tournaments but actually doesn't have amazing results representative of his pick rate. Luke is defiantly still the best in the game but I think SF6 right now is in a much better state both casually and competitively than T8 and it's barely gotten a single patch. People were actually clowning on SF6 saying Tekken 8 was gonna dominate but it really seems like Street Fighter knows what it's doing even with everyone doubting it.

[@al8704]

@@aledantih6524 SF6 is a real fighting game

[@pirofagista]

IMO Tekken 8 brings too many safe moves and too many power crushes making the game perfect for smashers. Everything is guaranteed, press a button start the pressure, and make a lot of cheap damage until rush down your opponent. Here are some suggestions: 1 - Increase the recovery frames to the main strings. 2 - Give back universal mechanics like magic 4. 3 - Decrease the power crush armor to 2 attacks, only or make new counter alternatives. 4 - Remove the roaming from throws. 5 - Every power crush comes unsafe.

[@CrustaceanJames1]

Its strange how i feel the same way, but disagree. I do feel outplayed by amny characters when they win. Im a very "bully" style player, so I adapted well. BUT there is an issue with the rushdown right now. Much of tekken 8s defense was standing and eating lows to not risk the mids. Defense, while a little more dynamic, still needs to be "buffed" so to speak. Defense is core to any fighting game, and I believe Bamco will give in, but not to the extent the old pros want. Bring defense back or nerf the offense. On a side note, much of the best characters' kits are so well rounded that they can sit and wait or just keep pushing. Azu, Victor, and King all have great defensive options in a heavily offense oriented system. Definitely what makes them busted imo.

[@THEVOIDZ]

Its not the "defensive playstyle" being nerfed that is the problem. Its the fact that T8 feels shallow. When I fight certain characters its like I already know what to expect. I only need to watch out for attack patterns and not movements/setups that can be uniquely accredited to the certain player Im facing.

[@AustinCasey-s6i]

Tekken 8 is fun but they went overboard with the nerfs to defensive play, and it is creating a fundamentally weak offense+defense balance, making the game less interesting. Heat in itself is a huge buff to braindead offense, not even counting chip damage and healing incentivizing everyone to mash powercrush instead of taking the time to weigh their defensive options. The fights just devolve into layer 1/2 ungabunga, when the most interesting Tekken happens on layer 3/4. nerfing the obscene range of heat burst, making heat burst -9 on block and making throws only track to the side they are broken from (1 throws track ssr, 2 throws track ssl, and 1+2 throws are linear) would be a good first step, but I also think that it could be good to just remove heat burst altogether and force people to play around their heat engagers instead of giving them a get out of jail free card once per round

[@rahibshaikh9407]

Harada should take idea from KOF 2k2 or others series.... in KOF IF u active Max ( Power ) then damage will be reduce on hit... that will be great for tekken 8 . thats my opinion. or one time you active heat burst then recharge in three rounda just like in T7 Akuma power bar

[@DSI090]

Dropped T8 after the first month. In the words of Knee, I just didnt find it fun.

[@teleportingfatso6089]

We need knee on next heat speak

[@bulletxwound3559]

I mean this is literally season 1 and it wasn't in arcades for years like tekken 7.

[@Sangria713]

I believe when the best players in the world say they don't understand the game because I feel that no one else really does either, including the devs. They seem to want to push aggressive playstyles but they've done so by tuning up moves very haphazardly. Oppressive +frames on various moves on hit AND on block layered on top of heat mechanics that can get you to the wall even when all you've done is block is kind of what makes that single player experience you mentioned come to fruition. I am still having a lot of fun with the game, of course I am nowhere near the level of play as these 2 greats. Evo Japan will be very telling though.

[@sadomoreno5829]

They're just going to have to get over it. I, too, struggled with T8 but instead of crying about it, I learned to adapt. The very best will adapt and triumph. Keep in mind this is not T7,6,5,4,3,2,1, tag. This is Tekken 8 and it doesn't need to be exactly how you remember it. It is a completely separate game. I'd rather watch/play this than a footsie battle any day.

[@waqasniaz1341]

They both were getting comfortable with no see moves in middle. Now the graphics are improving as well as movements. Tekken Tekken 2 Tekken 3 were difficult to play. Same tekken 8

[@playahayda9751]

i’ve been exposed to tekken since the 90s but never really got into it until last year. got t8 super excited, but was bored. went back to t7 to see if i’m just crazy. t7 has some op characters as well, but the mechanics are WAYYYY better. t7 rewarded creativity whereas t8 only rewards mashing.

[@Zenkai.boost.Kekkei.Genkai]

their defence was too good to where namco thought it was boring to spectate, which i kinda agree, so they developed the game to counter the boring turtle style

[@sebbbi2]

Casual players would not care if throws are homing or not. Nobody steps in low/mid ranks. Same is true for infinite range homing heat smashes (DJ, Jun, etc). Casuals would not even notice if all of these were nerfed to be linear. They would still have fun mashing, but high level experience would be better. There would be more skill ceiling to defend yourself with good reads and timing.

[@shiroyasha-gaming]

Successfully blocking should heal you instead of when attacking, this should promote more defense and have the enemy tone down on mashing/pressure. Successfully blocking high frame attacks should heal you much more than 10F jabs etc. If Tekken 8 can do that I guess we will see more defense and less people doing unlimited attacks whenever it's their turn.