A Brief History of the Sunfish/Elephant Toenail Knife

[@rhino5419]

Hello Tobias. In France they were and are still called Bouledogue knives. I have not been able to find where the original design came from. They were made here from the late 19th century as they were also in the States. Each time i think i have the answer i find another source that predates it. So far it is a chicken/egg situation. All the best.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Bulldog, huh? I can see that. Pretty cool.

[@isaacs_knives_and_knowledge]

Would be nice if Case did a run of these as one of the vault patterns

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It would. Have you seen the prices of old Case Sunfish! They are insane!

[@isaacs_knives_and_knowledge]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Yes, $300 or so! This is why we need a new production of them so folks who don't spend that much can enjoy the pattern from Case

[@bdh3949]

An old survival instructor I knew back in the 70's used a Toenail knife for all his ropework & camping purposes. I vaguely remember him batoning with it I think but he no doubt did so. Good memories here, thanks Tobias.

[@singingtoad]

Thanks very much for sharing about the history of the Sunfish and Elephant Toenail patterns, I really appreciate it. Take care and Cheers!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Anytime. I'm glad you found it helpful!

[@bluessman0925]

As an amateur historian/writer (especially 19th-century baseball), I enjoy learning the history of different patterns. My grandpa always called these Rope or Cowboy knives. Thanks for another great video! :)

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Cowboy knives. I did hear rumors that they were used in the stock yards. I've feeling that they were just an overall popular knife among laborers regardless of the trade.

[@CaffeineThrottle]

The 6250 has been a favorite of mine since I saw my 1st one at 10 years of age. Nice video 👏👏👏

[@tomweingart2337]

When first I saw this pattern I didn't think much of it. After watching several videos I'm beginning to change my mind. Might just have to pick one up for sure! The white smooth bone looks like a good candidate.

[@IanRosie1]

I remember as a kid standing in front of a Giant Sunfish at the British Museum. I just couldn't believe something like that existed. I thoroughly enjoyed this vid Tobias. So many questions answered for me in one place. Best regards.

[@visverkoper1]

I learn something every time I watch your Chanel

[@Kyoko12345678]

Great video! So informative

[@felinebline7154]

Fabulous pattern with a mysterious history!

[@magicdave93]

One of my favourite patterns, nice video.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Same here. Just something about it. It's off the beaten path and more practical than you would think at first glance!

[@knifedelights7473]

Very educational. Thanks for sharing Tobias.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@shotgunnerB]

Hey Tobias, yes , I agree with you the history is interesting and some what lost, my wife's grandfather told me they were called vest pocket axes, heavy enough to stay in the pocket but always there when you need it! Thanks again for taking the time to share your knowledge with the rest of us! Stay safe and see ya down the road!🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🙆👍

[@monkeBeastTitan]

One of the first knives I saw when I was young, I’m still looking for a nice one to buy

[@alexw1544]

I love the history videos you make Tobias. It's like sitting down and listening to an old friend.

[@KnifeDetector]

Thanks for including the link to my channel partner! I really appreciate it! Fantastic review as always!!

[@felinebline7154]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@williecopelandjr7532]

Beautiful knifes u have there. Now tht i got a name on these knifes im off to start my own collection of these knifes. Much love from a "youngster" tht loves old knifes.

[@rickkerans8485]

Thanks for the information. I remember searching after you did a white smoothbone knife and called it an Elephant Toe but when I searched SMKW I kept getting Sunfish. Now I know the difference. Knowledge is power and your channel has given me and continues to grow my knowledge.

[@jimmyj4811]

Great video! The RR 2113 Elephant Toe is probably my favorite due to the blade shapes. I collect all types of Sunfish and Elephant Toes and they are definitely a favorite pattern, along with Clasp knives and Toothpicks.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It had just arrived a day before I shot this video. I'll be reviewing it soon. The blades on it are pretty cool. I hope to see other Sunfish with these blades.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

Hey Tobias you have to get that 74 GEC Mustang that’s one of all to grab it just came out!!!!!! Wow what a piece!!!!!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I’ve tried three times now sells out before I can place my order. I’m not doing the secondary market. Just too damn expensive. If I can get one for a fair price, I’m grabbing it.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias yeah I hear ya!!!!! Man this sucks I keep loooking and looking I can’t find one under 200 bucks!!!!!! Man I really warmed that one bad!!!!!!!! I mean I wanted that piece bad!!!!!

[@TahoeRealm]

Great video - thanks for the hard work!

[@WilliamsKnifeLife]

Great information on the Sunfish knife. Knife Detector got me into Sunfish knives again also. I had that Stoneworx baby Sunfish & I didn't like the proportions. I love that Kit Kat knife. Used to have a clock like that.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Milo & Trixie has a few more in stock (not the Kitty) but those are really cool because of the cap lifter/screwdriver blade!

[@anonymousprole8367]

Thanks for the look Tobias! Elephant toenail is a pattern I've long been interested in!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad you found it useful. Thanks for watching.

[@TheChanceWayne]

I read these knives were popular with early oil rig workers in NW Pennsylvania and elsewhere from the late 1800's onward.

[@blueeyeswhitedragon9839]

Another one of the groups that I heard of that had a use for this knife design were surveyors in the 1800's. Apparently the knife was used to split surveyor stakes to mark off land claims. The knives were able to take abuse in batoning wood and rope, as you stated.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I can see that. I can see a lot of folks having a sue for a short, stubby, and very sturdy blade. Kind of like the ESEE3 of the folding world

[@andrewnawarycz3026]

So so hard to find sunfish/elephant toe knives for sale not in 440a. So I'll have to buy a cheap one strip it down and rebuild the knife with parts made of 80crv2. If I do, l will try to put up a video of the outcome of this message I've just written. Thanks for the video Tobias well done and hello to kitty too

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

If you you're looking for something in carbon steel you're going to need to find a very old Case Sunfish or some look around for on made by Great Eastern or Shatt & Morgan. The GEC's and S&M will be in 1095 but will also cost you in then hundreds. You are correct, most traditional are made in in some type of stainless ranging from 420 to 440A, Even Case uses a 420HC. Good luck with you project. I'd love to see the outcome if you do it.

[@davidhovey5152]

These two patterns always spark my interest..

[@davidhovey5152]

Not so much into the "Baby", but I would not think twice about putting one of the full sized ones in the carry rotation.. sometimes this pattern would be a perfect fit for some of the rope tasks I do with scouts.. 🤔😉.. always carry my SAK Farmer on those outings.. My IMO "perfected" scout knife

[@herbertsmith6416]

Very interesting ttobias.thanks

[@practicalknifereviews1600]

Love looking at those, I've been wanting to pick one up for a LONG time!

[@TheMartialist]

I'm no historian on knife patterns, but I'm going to go with the jumbo the elephant story as well. It sounds true enough, and comes from the murk of our history many years ago. Thanks for making this video, I really enjoyed it.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

The word "Jumbo" entered the American Lexicon because of Jumbo the Elephant. While some claim it was shortening of mumbo-jumbo, most agree that Jumbo meaning "large" came from the Ringling and the popularity of Jumbo the Elephant. This is pretty much clear. Enything oversized became "Jumbo".

[@TheMartialist]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias thanks for the good word, my friend. Until the next video, I hope you and yours are well!

[@badmunkyedc1]

Thanks for explaining the history on these, really a beefy knife. The black and blue rig Rough Ryder is awesome!

[@richardmcginnis5344]

i picked up the rough rider baby sunfish last weekend at the flea market for 5 bucks, it was still in the box the guy didn't know what it was. i been wanting one for a while now but i didn't have the money to head to mystic and pay 90 or 100 bucks for a scrimshawed knife

[@richardmcginnis5344]

now i have 2 sunfish knives and 3 baby sunfish and i love them, of course they aren't case or great eastern cutlery but they'll do for me

[@davidkurle5418]

Very neat bit of history! Thanks for the great video, Tobias.

[@jcalderon176]

Thanks For Clearing That Up For Me. Great Explanation Between Elephant 🐘 Toe & Sunfish 🐟. Now I Know The Difference. Because of This Video I Ordered My First Elephant Toe. From Rough Rider The Black & Blue Series Also From Rough Rider The Sunfish Called The Blue Mule With Royal Blue G-10 Handles. Thanks For all You Do Tobias ,To help all of Us That are Knives Enthusiastic. 👍.....

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad I could help. Thanks for supporting my channel. I truly appreciate it!

[@skcamerican]

These are such great showcases for the materials - big ol’ slabs of stone and blade.

[@MrOuruboros]

I learned something interesting. Thank you

[@forrestslrHankd]

The cat clock handle is the best.

[@jgbullen]

I like that one also. My ex wife had an old aunt who had a kit-kat clock on her kitchen wall.

[@richardmcginnis5344]

i'm going to the knife show tomorrow at the mystic marriott, i was there today but had spent my limit, i had to wait until my girlfriend got home from work to talk about it and she was okay with it so i'm going to buy a winchester bullet scale sunfish tomorrow, then i'll have 4 sunfish maybe 5 if i can unload this whale tooth

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Cool!

[@jesterskull38]

Awesome pattern, really want to go for a G.E.C

[@williamhulsey9209]

There was a time in America when Hemp was a major crop for one particular reason.....it made great rope and cheaply. We see farming, ranching, maritime, and oilfield equipment in any museum and you can spot the moment when inexpensive wire cable replaced every major use for rope in America. And the tools changed as well. Rigging and moving heavy things on the farm, the boat, the circus, the freight world used 5/8" + hemp rope in vast quantities. This was the perfect knife for rigging, right in the top pocket of the overalls.

[@Checkmate1954]

You missed (at least) one name...Case 6270 SS the "SnowShoe".

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Snow shoe! I can see that. As a matter of face, I can see that quicker than I can see a sunfish!

[@Dan-sq5cv]

Thanks for the vid and history. I think I will need to add a couple to my collection. My current favorite slip joint is the canoe style.

[@sketchtown6663]

Jumbo was killed in my hometown, I've stood on the spot he was hit, we have a statue of him as you drive into town.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

These days few people remember what an impact Jumbo had on American Society. A sad ending for a remarkable animal. Nice to hear that your hometown has memorialized him.

[@BushcraftWoodsDevil]

Fascinating! I've seen these for years but had no idea they had such a history. Thanks for sharing this information!

[@rustyknifelover4463]

Sweet looking knives, I just got my first an Elephant Toe Blue and Black Rough Ryder. So cool.

[@SpyderHeel]

Great Video Tobias! The Sunfish is one of my favorite patterns also. One thing I've noticed with my GEC 36 & Queen produced Winchester Sunfish, is that those 2 use a single spring instead of 2 springs that Rough Ryder/Marbles use.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I can see this working on a single spring. How strong is that spring?

[@SpyderHeel]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias VERY STRONG. I'd say 7½ on the main blade & an 8½ on the pen blade. Both pen blades are much thinner stock than my Rough Ryder & Marble's. I enjoyed the history lesson about this pattern. I think all 3 scenarios about who used it are entirely possible. Over 100 years ago, the Sunfish/Elephant Toenail filled a similar role as brands such as Cold Steel & Medford do today. The circus connection was something I'd not heard before. I never gave it a thought as to how or where"Jumbo" came to be a size reference.

[@bionicbaer]

I went and ordered a Marbles white bone looks interesting.

[@vencemcadams2927]

I also have that Baby Sunfish RR Stoneworx. I really like the looks of all the Stoneworx knives. Great video!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

If you like the StoneWrox line you may like this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4eUnY1oadNpeNE

[@vencemcadams2927]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Wow! I'm a little Jealous.

[@mikehook2835]

Never knew anything about those. Thanks for doing this video. Much appreciated.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad to be of assistance. Thanks for watching!

[@John-mf6ky]

I never made the connection of jumbo and jambo, that's pretty neat. Kind of like how the word "yummy" comes from Bantu.

[@williamdabill]

Call me crazy but i just seen this knife pattern for the first time an hour ago and i really really like it

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It's a fun pattern and it works

[@traditionallarry5378]

Tobias they are all great looking,but the one with the blue scales is really nice.

[@jeroenvoss6231]

I think it"s a non threatening big knife with a great bladeshape and very nice handles.

[@beeferbaron]

I loved the story. Thanks for sharing

[@ronniefoster5099]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I didn't know it was popular with carpenters, but that does make sense.

[@celluloidheros]

not popular wirth carpenters. Popular for cutting big rope with a Brass piun hammer

[@terrillschneider3778]

Bought my son the White Marbles Sunfish after seeing this video Thanks

[@Tracy81258]

You’d think you’d figure out we were lurking there by now. I only own one type, the Old Timer “Big Timer”, but it’s a great knife to take along in the woods. Very stout, but a great slicer that makes it good at making feather-sticks.

[@user-ov4um8uk6u]

Picked up a zombie nic elephant toe. Pen blade was so lose it rattled. I was gonna send it back but I have a jewelers ballpeen about. A few solid taps and ended up tight and right as rain again. Carried it and man, it is a bit heavy, but solid. I do like that full handle feel and can understand @knifedetector and the obsession. They feel great in the hand. Thanks for the history and slide show Tobias. I believe a sunfish is in order now. White smooth bone in future.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad you could fix it but it's a shame it came like that.

[@chrisosh9574]

Mark, if you like these as a user, I recently got the Blue Mule Sunfish RR2173, it's a beast of a knife and with the blue micarta scales, just made for work. It's quite chunky and not that light so I am thinking of making a belt pouch for it.

[@Kyoko12345678]

Tobias, What make is the sunfish with the cat on it ? Peter.B

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

That was made for a company called Trixie & Milo, a small online "Cottage Shop" that is better known for flasks. I think their target customers are people who used to be called "Hipsters."

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

Sunfish time Tobias!!!!!! Come on bud did you put your order on to Smokey!!!!! 😀

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

😂 just the Whittler.

[@EdAtoZ]

Tobias, I have an Elephant toenail by RR with saw cut scales. Got it just to try this pattern out and it is big and stiff , It most likely is the toughest slip joint pattern knife out their.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Many definitely of a strong back spring. No doubt about it.

[@martinrivera8147]

Muy bonitas cuánto vale una elefan gracias

[@felinebline7154]

Yes! They rocket in price. Few appreciate like the Sun Fish and elephant toe patterns

[@BigRedEDC]

Been seeing a lot of this pattern recently! Thanks Tobias!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It's an interesting one, that;s for sure..

[@tobiasfreitag2182]

I personally would have called a mini Jumbo a Dumbo....

[@kevinbufton7118]

Thanks Tobias, another really interesting piece of pocket knife history, i only have one of these knifes, a Rough Rider in white smooth bone, it is certainly a chunky and solid work type knife and very robust. Thanks for the information best wishes (KB Wales UK) ps i still have had no luck with my missing knife !

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

All i can think of now is trying contacting the seller and see if they will put a trace on the item. I've still got a package that remains a "Victim of Covid", supposedly. Very aggravating.

[@kevinbufton7118]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias Thanks Tobias, i will do that ! best wishes Kevin

[@TRONABORON]

These are my favorites from Rough Ryder- I'm on the hunt for the Hippo Toe!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I just recently managed to get a Hippo Toe. I didn't buy it when it first came out and when I went to get a little later it was gone. These are really nice knives. Definitely different looking but also more useful than they look.

[@wizardofahhhs759]

Why wouldn't they just use a rigging hatchet or a small, sturdy fixed blade to baton through heavy rope? Right tool for the job kinda thing.

[@warwickmudge4114]

Funny how these knives grow on you, initially I thought they looked kind of dumb..now I think they'd look kind of cool; in my pocket!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Same thing happened to me. If you're going to keep half the blade, you just as well keep the point part instead of the part close to the handle.

[@gareygerosky8030]

Would you recommend the blue mule version?

[@Walkingman.45]

Anyone have historical sources for these being used on ships? I have found no evidence for their use in the old New England whaling industry, centered in Nantucket.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I have only seen rumors and innuendo of these being a sailor’s rope knife and it all seems to track back to Bernard Levine. And Levine notoriously does not cite his sources. I think they would make an awful on board rope knife.

[@Walkingman.45]

Agreed. A short axe seems to have been the most prevalent edged item for emergencies. Losing blades in the couch is bad enough, imagine how many would be lost to Davy jones locker 🤝

[@gator83261]

Good video

[@gregedwards1921]

Was it ever referred to as the Whaler in the northeast, does anyone have any thoughts on this?

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I’ll check my notes. I know Case had a knife called a Whaler but it was basically just a single blade loom knife which looks like a hawkbill style knife with a sheepfoot blade. Would you look at that. Great Eastern called their Sunfish a Whaler!

[@sameeralazawee7524]

Very nice

[@STUFFWEDO]

Thanks for the history. Love your channel.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Glad you enjoyed. Thanks for your support!

[@censusgary]

I really want that Sunfish knife with the black cat clock picture on the scales (I think that kind of clock was called a Kit Kat Clock). Is that model still available?

[@ministrychannelsa4216]

You also get a whaler slipjoint knife which doesn't have the pen knife.

[@slick_slicers]

I like these knives a lot, but I’ve only one, the RR smooth white bone. I really like your one with the cat and a bottle opener, perfect functionality and with a cat on it... what’s not to like?!

[@chrisosh9574]

I love that United Whittler, I want one! Also trying to find an RR2113, there are a couple on eBay but non ship to Spain, just waiting to see if a French ebayer I use is going to have any as he does a lot of rough Riders. A great video and really interesting, I wonder how they came to be described as an Old English Rope Knife as an Englishman who has liked knives for decades, i have never seen a British made one or seen any in old catalogues. I wonder if Slick Slicers knows anything about British Sunfish? I wanted one and the only thing I could find was the RR Zombie Nick Sunfish so I bought it, hated the black cerakote on the blades as well as the vomit green covers so I mirror polished the blades and replaced the covers with Juniper, now it's looks like a reasonable knife, although I don't use it as its too bulky for me.

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

My bet is the Old English Rope Knife was also just a sales gimmick. There really is no evidence of it being an English pattern. I've been going back and forth with the Zombie Nick. I'm almost sure it will be a knife of regret. But then iI could, if nothing else take it out and beat the snot out of it and see what abuse it can take.

[@andrewnawarycz3026]

Try a company called heinnie Haynes from England. I believe that they do sales to Europe. I hope this is of help for you

[@chrisosh9574]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias On my Zombie Nick there is blade wobble on the main blade, I am thinking of trying Warthogg's bash it with a hammer method as it has worked for Rick. When I took the green covers off, although they were pinned they were mainly held on with contact adhesive, so easy to remove, the pins stayed in placed so I trimmed them down and used them to help hold the new covers in place. I glued the new ones with epoxy, If you like projects, the zombie Nick is only about $12 or $13, or beat the snot out of it!

[@user-ov4um8uk6u]

@@chrisosh9574 bang on it. My pen blade was the lose one. Once I smacked it a few times tightened right up. You do see the pin on the bolster now. But it works and is tight no rattle, wobble, or play. Give it a shot as it can only get better!

[@chrisosh9574]

@@andrewnawarycz3026 Heinnie haven't even got the normal Blue Sunfish now ( which I have), I like that huge ram's foot type blade on the 2113, it's a pocket filler for sure but looks useful. I will find one somewhere!

[@ironpirate8]

Really interesting history, thanks! Good timing, as I just got my first RR sunfish. Tobias, seeing you playing with that knife at the end there made me think of the craziest knife ever made, the Norfolk knife, have you seen it?

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

Oh yeah! I can't imagine attempting the blades on the Norlfolk!

[@thornekimroberts8502]

Love that sailors knife!

[@rabadabadoo491]

I've a similar one to your corky the cat, I might start carrying it a bit more

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It's a fun pattern but definitely a pocket full!

[@jamesgallagher7462]

Thanks again for another history lesson on knives. I am looking to find the Rough Ryder Outdoosman Series Sunfish. If you know anyone looking to part with one, lemme know. Again, thanks and please keep the vids coming.

[@paddyspotatopeelers2154]

Very interesting mate,I just got one and I don't think I'll carry it I do stangley like it.lol.atb paddy

[@TRONABORON]

These are in my personal top three favorite knives! 🤡🗡️

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

It's a fun pattern and more ore useful than it may appear!

[@clay-r15]

This is a pattern I've always wanted but never actually bought. Anyone know of any good ones still in production? I don't care if it's Chinese but would prefer one with good quality steel that is easy to sharpen and will hold an edge.

[@westbsa7424]

👍👍👍👍

[@mattadams1024]

Love the history behind the knife even if it is a bit murky. And I have to say I really want to pick up the Marbles white smooth bone one. I grew quit fond of their white smooth bone knives after you showed the work knife in that collection and I needed up picking up their white smooth bone canoe knife.

[@linasmagnum]

Thanks, I just had an idea, since no one makes big canoe, maybe I could make one out of sunfish, and it would be lighter , Hmmmm

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

That would be interesting. A sunfish canoe.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

Hey Tobias you have a chubby yet for the reserve line!!!!!!!

[@KnifeChatswithTobias]

I picked up the Whittler. Not too interested in the other two.

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias holly smokes ok cool there first runs I’m going to put mine in there sleepy bags!!!!!!

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

I was thinking about have Tyler autograph all three pieces you think I should!!!!!

[@jerseyknifeguy6382]

@@KnifeChatswithTobias I bet they fetch a nice premium!!!!!!!!