KPOP-101: Why idols get worse at singing??? (grwm no. 01) // denise

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@itsrainingcaratzens 7 ай бұрын

As someone who's been into kpop since 2018, I also miss when being a kpop fan was fun. I felt like I could talk about the artists I like without people saying "Ew they're untalented," "You're tastless," etc. It seriously feels like I'm supporting the wrong industry rn, with all this hatred and exploitation, especially towards minors

@aubreysong 7 ай бұрын

I always think Gen 1 to 3 kpop idols are more carefree and spontaneous, that's why if you watch their reality show at the time is much more fun. However, their obsession to perfection now start to shown the negative effects to the Gen 4 and 5, not to mention cancel culture seems way more harsher especially in socmed.

@RandalReid 7 ай бұрын

17:49 "Whatever happened to kpop being fun?" I'm an on-and-off kpop casual enjoyer since second gen and the way things are for a long time now is that kpop is fun if you are new, discovering the groups, still learning stuff but once you properly get integrated into fandoms, you'll see some of the most unhinged, crazy obsessive, hypocritical, overly sensitive, drama-thirsty, mentally-stunted, batsh** insane people on the internet. My advice is to just enjoy kpop outside of the community. Just focus on the songs or the groups you like and drown out everything, difficult as that may sound.

@CottidaeSEA 7 ай бұрын

Yep. I buy the albums I care about, I watch the content that I care about and that's about it. Going any deeper into a fandom will only leave you hurt, because there's always a vocal minority in every group that is just awful.

@aubreysong 7 ай бұрын

I agree. So many bad things already happening in the world today, I don't want to add or involved in unnecessary headache and negative vibes.

@sweetawita3462 7 ай бұрын

Bener banget, aku juga nggak join fandom apapun, hanya menjadi penikmat konten-konten mereka aja.

@ddhika7332 7 ай бұрын

Its so refreshing to listen someone who actually know the industry than those "Fans/Haters" who acted like they know Sh*t about it...

@zacharikurbah6358 7 ай бұрын

This is so good, thank you for sharing this, Denise

@alexandragabitto2573 7 ай бұрын

I completely agree, now that KPOP is no longer a niche it’s become SUPER unhinged. On top of that the fact alone that the KPOP industry is failing to give idols vocal training (which is just wild to me) is a sign that they should not debut minors because they are not being cared for. If a company is not investing in the long term vocal health of their idols it means that they think idols are expendable which is disgusting. I’m glad that the training process was brought up in this video too as it plays a big part in how routine it’s become for an idol to vocally regress after debut. From what I’ve gathered about said training process idols spend quite a long time hyper fixated on your vocal technique/health day and night before switching to a schedule where it’s difficult to have just one vocal lesson a week. Under those conditions you are without a doubt going to experience a period of vocal regression.

@juyeontan 7 ай бұрын

woahhhh thank you denise for these insights, i hope everyone visits this and reflects

@proboffensive 7 ай бұрын

hearing you developed nodes was heartbreaking. i'm glad you're doing better !! your voice is just too good, it needs to be preserved for sureee

@itsrainingcaratzens 7 ай бұрын

It is so enlightening to hear this from someone who actually was in the industry. People should not lower their standards, but this is not an excuse to be a horrible person, and say all these horrible things to idols. I hope everyone sending hate to groups like Le Sserafim and ILLIT rn (which is like 60% of the kpop fandom), especially towards members that are minors, sees this video. Thank you for your insight!

@CottidaeSEA 7 ай бұрын

What you mentioned about people taking things out of context and blowing things up because they don't want to take time to research, that's something which happens everywhere these days. People want to be told what to think and don't bother thinking for themselves. Someone says something, others just take that as gospel and run with it.

@cupcake9483 7 ай бұрын

I feel like this is ENTIRELY the companys' faults and the idols suffer big time as a result. Clearly, they don't see being able to sing really well as a priority by not giving/paying for proper, consistent vocal lessons, overworking these idols, and only wanting them to sing when a comeback is on the horizon. Then wanting them to sing ALL the time when they're promoting (Without any warm ups, any real vocal training, nothing). Then what happens? Their voices get SEVERELY damaged and they get endless hate comments on the internet. And all of this can easily be avoided and it's absolutely not the idols fault at all. The less time you have, the busier you are, the more damaged your voice is bound to get (Not to mention not receiving the proper vocal treatment from your company). It's not that the idols "don't care" about being good singers but rather that the company doesn't care about it and doesn't prioritize it the way they use to. It's pretty sad, honestly. It just shows how selfish the companies are and how comfortable they are with their own idols suffering as a result (Not just vocally, but also receiving horrific hate online).

@xheralt 7 ай бұрын

The C-suites of these companies are very good at declaring other people must work hard, without understanding what it really takes.

@cupcake9483 7 ай бұрын

@@xheralt 💯💯💯💯

@newdawg100 7 ай бұрын

So thoughtful and engaging. Should be included in all K-pop 101 syllabi. 😉

@JM-hd3lr 7 ай бұрын

as someone who knows nothing about singing i really enjoyed this!! I would love more videos like this one 🫶🏾

@hall-hyoo 7 ай бұрын

You may not be on long form content as much as you/we'd like, but the insight you've given has a lot of quality and value rather than just being entertained. What you & Daisy have been doing to give transparency, from the idols' perspective helps educate the netizens to maintain P.L.U.R. in the industry to alleviate the toxiciity. It's gold and must be cherished.

@allyssaearly-mccullom4964 7 ай бұрын

One thing to add to your video . Today's Idols are not trained long enough to perform with confidence. I see the newer generation of idols have the commonality of short training periods(1-3 years). This is part of the reason why it seem like they lack skill .In reality they don't have proper technique to sing or sticking with what they learned. What's REALLY adding fire to the fuel is netizens using their lack for an excuse to hate on them. I say this because nobody talks the psychological view of singing, it's more than having butterflies in you gut. People can have nervous breakdowns because of the fear of not being good enough. I myself would criticize my skill because my expectations on good vocals were super duper high. But now I do it less because it only holds me back from improving myself.

@momokoblue8032 7 ай бұрын

They don't care about training the idols because the focus is on the image and dancing. They know the girls will be lip syncing most of the performances. As long as they impress an average age of a 15 year old fan, they're good.

@pprimeval11 7 ай бұрын

THANK YOU Denise. You're a gem

@KirkKiyosadaTome 7 ай бұрын

What a transparent, insightful video! Please continue to make them when you do find the time to do so.

@ImpyTheWildSeagull 7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for coming back to KZbin! I don’t use social media so this is the only place I can see you. I loved this informative video, I really learnt a lot. I love you Denise! God bless you! Sending hugs & kisses from England! ❤

@nosferatuspyjamas 7 ай бұрын

thank you for this video! a lot of people on the internet say a lot of this and that but it's good to get an opinion from someone who actually understands how singing and the idol industry work

@sucre2363 7 ай бұрын

You just talk about right things Denise, send love ❤️, keep health and be an inspiration to your fans and your listeners, from Indonesia 🌻

@ateezslowsongs 7 ай бұрын

Not a TikTok user whatsoever so I'll happily watch long-form videos. This video was great, you should definitely keep doing these since you have a great perspective with your experience. I appreciate how much you emphasize being kind to others and that there is a difference between constructive criticism and expressing just pure hatred! Also, would you ever talk about what things you personally do to warm up your voice and how you mitigate the effects of dairy, etc. like if you really wanted to drink some milk but still have to sing? Or do you just say you can't do it that day?

@ntrvp 7 ай бұрын

okk queen with the long videos retun

@aiursaiurs 7 ай бұрын

miss you so much denise

@---Melody--- 7 ай бұрын

I love how you're always so honest and transparent 💖

@beccale1393 7 ай бұрын

Been missing content from you Denise! Loving this series and a chill grwm!

@shyshyshy4eva 7 ай бұрын

Wow this is an amazing video, thank u! I watch a lot of kpop commentary on youtube and its very refreshing seeing a less surface level take on this subject - the others ive seen also seem to come from a place of good intention, but they lack the personal experience of being a singer to go further into their research. i’m a huge advocate of using internet in a fun way and as a way of getting fun experiences and meeting new people, and i tend to view consuming kpop in the same manner. However, this whole discourse about live vocals and the lack of them was really hindering my enjoyment of being a kpop fan, because i didnt want to be a fan of a music genre that’s made by people that seem to have music as their very last concern. Now i get that the problem is way more complex and that even hard working idols that do care about music have a lot of obstacles in their way to having consistently good live performances. Praying that companies use this wave of criticism as a wake up call to space out their idols’ activities more to allow them rest and a more less stressful and strict time frame for their improvement.

@jasoninthea.m7471 7 ай бұрын

oh wow, an Idol speaking on something like this. It's nice to see actual kpop idols speak on the industry and things. Like Jane from Momoland who spoke on lines and stuff.

@alee8 7 ай бұрын

deniseee🖤🖤🖤

@KamenRider808 7 ай бұрын

I find your insight into the industry from your experience very interesting

@joaoc360 7 ай бұрын

*excellent video!* , a lot of what i had in mind too ppl on social media instead of thinking about y something happens, go more for the validation from others to feel better about themselves and dont even think about what they're doing, (also bc most are kids) very easily the "target" will see it They also not getting that they are part of the problem they are whining about, they are helping to create the ground

@dogi-sg1jc 7 ай бұрын

Love you Denise ❤

@riancity 5 ай бұрын

thank you for this but on a totally different note,,, i definitely NEED that makeup and skincare routine OMGGGG

@ggstan2439 7 ай бұрын

The first reasons may be true mainly for main vocals. But the third one is cleary the most common since in most of groups (with very few exception), only 1/2 or 1/3 can be called real singers. And that’s where the problem mostly lies. Groups as nmixxx and aespa are big3 groups with heavy schedules but why can they sing perfectly? Because they can. If you can’t sing at all a hard routine is just a plus not the major factor. And that’s the point for most of the girls who actually get hate. Their singing is the problem. And their singing suck on both higher and lower keys. Ofc people will get mad if you “steal” talented people place’s in the industry while your main talent is being pretty.

@gon10suke94 7 ай бұрын

Thnk youuu for sharing about kpop world 👍😙

@cjc363636 6 ай бұрын

As an American kpop fan who discovered it during the lockdown in 2020, thanks so much for your takes. I don't really know the details of the industry, but I've come to realize that some experiences are not good. Loona comes to mind, but the 12 were able to get out of the contracts. Oh, and Subscribed.

@sasha4603 7 ай бұрын

thanks for sharing your insight! looking forward to more vids

@DesolateSpace594 7 ай бұрын

I agree to some extent, I at least listen to the groups songs and if I don't like or care for it I just won't listen to it. Some groups just have either hits or misses for me but I don't see a reason to go on a hate train for it. Live vocals, I appreciate live vocals a lot more than backing tracks, sorry, but even then it could just be one of the factors that you listed as to why they just didn't sound the best. To be honest though sometimes live shows are much better than the studio version but not all the time, so I think people can appreciate either or.

@rfkhrii 7 ай бұрын

I strongly agree w/ this hot thought. Its very factual and undeniable.

@RandalReid 7 ай бұрын

11:21 Bom of 2NE1, suffered a number of times from those throughout her time with the group.

@hllo-wk8xp 5 ай бұрын

please do this more!!! super interesting

@WilliamFebrian 7 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing this, new insight for me 👍

@kanopi2269 7 ай бұрын

Hi Denise…hope you have collaboration with Kim from VVUP cause both of you have a great Vocal. Thank you

@Rajagukguk378 7 ай бұрын

Bikin malu luh

@kanopi2269 7 ай бұрын

@@Rajagukguk378 loe yg ga bisa b ingris diem ajh

@rasmaamma-fc6jv 7 ай бұрын

Fighting denise

@cjc363636 6 ай бұрын

My background was broadcast audio. One question I've wondered is, on the 'show' performances, in the event an idol's voice is not good - does the audio mixer boost up backing vocal tracks to cover tired or out of tune vocals? And does the idol hear that mix in the in-ears?

@xheralt 7 ай бұрын

3rd Gen groups like RV and Mamamoo (and surviving 2nd Gen groups with over a decade experience) were such peak vocalists, 4th Gen shrugged, said, we can't compete with that, and instead switched focus to energetic dance choreo and emphasis on visuals (side effect of that, greater numbers of underage -- "prettier" -- girls), something that's continuing now.

@SoraiaLMotta 7 ай бұрын

Thank you for your pespective Denise.

@xhadow8815 7 ай бұрын

Whatever happened to kpop being fun? I feel like as Kpop grew alot of fans that previously hated kpop got into it & I feel like a lot of them feel a kind of shame now that there fans. So they kind of have a nasty attitude around things & I think this goes into bringing down a group/artist to uplift yours, its kind of like there happy they stan a quality group & it justifys them getting into something they hated(Kpop). I've also just generally noticed a trend of Kpop fans waiting for the downfall of Kpop or even there own group so they can "finally be free". Also the part about artists having no time to practice there vocals after debut is the main reason I think vocals have been not so good lately. Because of elimination shows you can just throw someone on there, they can become popular, they don't even have to get into the final group. Then they can comeback to the company be put in a group and have instant popularity due do that member and other memebers. But now because they have to pull these groups together so fast to catch that wave of popularity, we have people that have only been training a year or less put into groups with little to no vocal training. And like you said there really isn't that much time after debut to practice. I'm not saying have people train for like 7+, but I've noticed there are some idols that could sing well/decent if only they could go back and train there vocals for a little longer.

@bagabagachoco 4 ай бұрын

Hey denise miss you, I always have a dream see you and ot7 with secret number, but well if this solo make you happy I support it

@josiahrubyjosh 6 ай бұрын

i legit miss your diamond voice, our MMM GOAT maknae :) please take care of urself, eat well, get enough sleep, find joy in whatever u want to do. yours truly, ur number #1 stan from 🇮🇩

@susukenma12 7 ай бұрын

This may just be me but as a casual K-pop fan,I don’t care about live vocals??? Especially with how hard choreography has gotten over the past few years, i’ve definitely lowered my standard when it comes to how properly they can sing with moving around a lot. However, I will say to train your idols to sing properly without dancing (that one ILLIT encore stage clip comes to mind), but even with that like I don’t really care? I’m here for the performance y’know?. this may just be me idk

@Thesilentvoice... 7 ай бұрын

Nice video. It's quite sad that there is a lot of hate behind this, but the criticism shouldn't be washed over by that. Many people genuinely notice the lack of singing, especially when it should be live, but too many people jump to hate and compare groups. The aim should be to get all K-pop artists to sing well live and work on their craft, not pin another group down or compare. Companies need to put more effort into their trainees with singing. From what I hear many artists don't continue to train their voice after debut, or have minimal vocal classes at all. This isn't good because what if a technical issue happens where they can't rely on a backing track? What about encores/concerts? Despite having a reason why they haven't focused on practicing due to being busy, the lack of good vocals will show sadly. The best solution is constant practicing so they can be comfortable to the point of singing live without fear. They don't need to be the best but confident in what they can do.

@sanfase 7 ай бұрын

Denis❤❤❤

@alee8 7 ай бұрын

re upload??

@inquisitvem6723 6 ай бұрын

HI DENISE, I FEEL THE SONGS THAT LESSERAFIM HAS ARE TOO DIFFICULT TO SING LIVE ESPECIALLY WHEN DANCING. WITH EXCEPTION OF CHAEWON WHO SLAYED COACHELLA, THE SONGS ARE OUT OF RANGE FOR THE REST OF MEMBERS. HYBE SHOULD’VE MADE THEIR SONGS FOR THEIR VOCAL RANGE, BUT YOURE RIGHT, ITS ALL ABOUT CONCEPTS PLUS THE INDUSTRY JUST RELIES ON BACKTRACK, SO THEYRE NOT CONCERNED UNFORTUNATELY.

@FdSnNumber 7 ай бұрын

❤ Denise ❤ in Bali With❤ Dita Karang❤🎉

@Rajagukguk378 7 ай бұрын

Parah bikin malu

@katiel.7418 7 ай бұрын

Re-up

@yopiyullah8379 7 ай бұрын

💚🖤

@jessicaguo7496 6 ай бұрын

Please do the full cover of charlie puth's dangerously you did such a good job omg!!

@Hahaa00123 5 ай бұрын

Hodes ?

@SyaifudinHafidh 7 ай бұрын

sekalian curhat🤍🇮🇩😁

@bangajieh 4 ай бұрын

Mirip Balqis Anaknya Ayu Ting Ting 😅

@andikaramdanaputra4199 7 ай бұрын

Okkk

@BruhLookAtThis 7 ай бұрын

*Leaves a hate comment* 😡😡

@agungsuwandaru2933 7 ай бұрын

Denise... We miss you play together with princess dita.... Maybe holiday with princess dita in bali

@choichalWeUs 7 ай бұрын

Mata nya boy, dijaga tetap fokus

@kelincinakal0808 7 ай бұрын

PLEASE STOP DISCUSSING K-POP IDOL/K-POP IDOL EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE NOW YOU ARE NO LONGER AN IDOL! OTHERS WILL LOOK DOWN ON THE GROUP YOU JOINED BEFORE! THIS IS THE SAME AS YOU HAVE TO PERFECT SOMEONE! STOP SEEKING FAME/ATTENTION AND EXPLOITING THIS ONLY FOR MONEY! OR I WILL UNFOLLOW ALL YOUR SOCIAL MEDIA AND BURN EVERYTHING INCLUDING ALBUMS, PHOTOCARDS, THAT YOU JOINED IN THE GROUP BEFORE! BYE!!!

@alzastrouwmullasadra1214 7 ай бұрын

Are you crazy ? 😂😂😂. I'm understand because you hate her, "YOU AND HATERS NOT DIFFERENT" SO SHUT UP

@kelincinakal0808 7 ай бұрын

@cowbearrie 7 ай бұрын

girl bye get a job

@alzastrouwmullasadra1214 7 ай бұрын

Are you crazy ? 😂😂😂. I'm understand because you hate her, "YOU AND HATERS NOT DIFFERENT" SO SHUT UP

@kelincinakal0808 7 ай бұрын

@alzastrouwmullasadra1214 7 ай бұрын

Are you crazy ? 😂😂😂. I'm understand because you hate her, "YOU AND HATERS NOT DIFFERENT" SO SHUT UP

@kelincinakal0808 7 ай бұрын

@alzastrouwmullasadra1214 7 ай бұрын