300 FPS Traditional Bow?

[@thatrandomarcher2845]

The faster the limb tips go from full draw to brace the faster the bows gonna be. So a recurve since it moved the limb tip from drawn to brace faster moves the string faster therefore moving your arrow faster.

[@smorris6539]

But, if you move faster, you need a stronger arrow. A stronger arrow has more mass. More mass decreases acceleration. Less acceleration means slower speed. Certain materials have max capacity. The only way to push the limits is to decrease safety. So every time you draw a failure is more likely. Modern bows have limits, too. As do firearms. Sometimes, a maximum is a maximum for many reasons.

[@monokheros5373]

all bows approach "infinite speed" as they reach brace draw weigh has little impact on arrow speed more impact on weight of arrow it can PUSH

[@connorgarland113]

Then again the faster the arrow goes from braced to drawn, the less energy can be stored due to either string angle or higher brace height.

[@donniewillis2926]

While I am certainly no bowyer, you remind me of something my grandfather used to say about people with a grit & tenacity to just not give up. He would say "son, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"! Keep fighting and learning. I have watched you grow from your original garage videos to now, and you have a lot of fight in you!!

[@ThirdLawPair]

Yeah, but in the case of anything involving physics, having solid math skills will get you farther than anything.

[@Graywolf116]

read Adam Karpowicz's book on Ottoman composite bows. Use that as a starting point and experiment substituting modern materials and see what you can come up with.

[@almubarizunarchery4607]

Your best option would be to make a turkish style either composite bow or laminate bow.

[@titobobby5511]

I love design, science, and craftsmanship- And so, i love this channel ❤

[@traditionalarcher9249]

Its always a point how heavy or light your arrows are, here in Germany is a guy that shoots 100 lbs and more, but 2-3 grains per pound, and there 310 fps or more, but thats nothing new an fanxy stuff, give that bow a 9 gpp arrow, it might only shoot 200 fps

[@bubba530]

i gotta ask have you noticed anything as far as excessive wear/stress cracks on the limbs? as well as do you have trouble with finding a stiff enough arrow with that gpp?

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

@@bubba530 A 300 spine carbon arrow weighs almost the same as a 600 spine carbon arrow... The tip and inserts make more of a difference. Seems to me harder to find arrows heavy enough once you get to 30lbs and over. Having to add inserts to get to 8 or 9gpp for example..

[@jonathanp___________3606]

If you plot the draw weight at each moment (for release of the string to the moment the arrow starts to leave the string) vs. time, the speed of the arrow should be the area under the curve divided by the mass of the arrow. This doesn’t account for drag, but it does account for the sometimes counterintuitive tradeoff between the time an arrow spends in the bow, and how fast it ends up moving.

[@TheCompleteMental]

Bigger bow, more extreme curve (like a C shape when unstrung), thin and solid tips to act like a lever. Traditional bows used sinew on the belly and horn and the back, all glued together. Former is elastic, it stores more tension, latter is more rigid and stores more compression - any material with these qualities should work similarly. Lighter limbs also add speed: they have inertia just like the arrow does, so optimally you need to find a balance that can impart the most amount of the energy stored by drawing as possible within the time it's launching the arrow.

[@rudamchu]

You have it backwards ... sinew is on the back while horn is on the belly. The belly material has to be dense with high compressive strength, while the material on the back has to be high in tensile strength such as sinew or bamboo.

[@rhpsoregon]

Have you tried making a Turkish-style bow? You'll likely find your missing speed there. Or, at part of it.

[@mr.somebody1493]

Longer, stiffer limbs. Though it may not be possible with a takedown bow, because the handle doesn't impart nearly as much stored energy as a regular bow.

[@davidboyce2007]

Id experiment with rigid seyahs. Different angles lengths and weights. String bridge vs none. They affect linearity of draw and acceleration curves. English Long bows decay quickly towards brace position. Horse bows have more linear force draw curves.

[@dennisweaver5485]

Do laminated traditional bows with tapered laminates between non-tapered laminates tend to build up much higher limb speed due to the conflicting forces? If so make really thin tapered and non tapered limbs. What about running small diameter kevlar thread between the laminates? Idea being to use the incredible nature of kevlar to not stretch. Bending a bow limb means you gave to be streching the kevlar. What dynamic forces could be achieved with a nonstretch material?

[@tanneranderson7574]

Just wondering how fast you could get traditional war bow to go? If I’m not mistaken they were roughly 165-200lbs draw weight. People’s skeletal structure use to morph because of the intense strain to draw. I wonder if simply making a 165lbs war bow with a lighter modern arrow would reach over 300fps

[@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern]

yeah it could, and it would blow up in the process. i don't know of any traditional warbow that can handle less than 8gpp.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

War bow can be as low as 50 lbs. Most people used 70-90lbs in war, while the elite archers used higher draw weights...

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

@@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern Bows made with modern materials can use lighter arrows. Modern Korean bows for example... Apparently old school horn and sinew bows are hard to break with shocking, can use lighter arrows and longer draws than same shape with modern materials...

[@tanneranderson7574]

@@Xtorin_Housecat_Ohern I was thinking more like a heavy walled carbon arrow. There are companies out there that make heavier carbon arrows that would be stiffer than wood but yet still be lighter for spin. I’m not a material expert so I don’t know what is exactly possible with today’s technology. It was just an idea I had.

[@tanneranderson7574]

@@0ooTheMAXXoo0 I totally had the scorpion king bow in mind😂 or an English or Scandinavian war bow. Mongolian bows are lighter weight draw because they are almost always used by horse mounted archers. I was thinking more of the extreme weight war bows of Europe.

[@bradwilliams1650]

A lower brace height also adds speed. But with this, like most other factors, we're still talking a few fps at most.

[@mangcha2254]

Have you thought of the design, weight, length, spine, and fletchings of an arrow? After all, it is just as important as the bow.

[@Treblaine]

The key to speed is lowest mass limbs as possible moving as short distance as possible. This is the speed limit of bows, all that energy going into moving the limbs isn't going into the arrow.

[@davidsanders5592]

Could you make made for someone quite with all the stats of a recurve what about 2 x the power kind of like the bow from scorpion King I haven't found a bow strong enough yet?

[@everest0411]

Try different wood materials or even reference how ancient Chinese soldiers made their bows (buffalo horn)

[@MarineVeteran0351]

I found a double recurve though significantly heavier draws, but faster & heavier hitting

[@wesleydynna8411]

The curvature at the point of letoff is where i be looking. There be a minimum and maximum

[@elijah4606]

One thing to consider is that the arrow is accelerating the entire draw length. My intuition is that higher early acceleration will result in a higher top speed. If you don't accelerate much till the end, you're sort of wasting time you could be putting energy into the arrow. I've been wrong before. Willing to be proven wrong here.

[@coltonward3609]

Beautiful work, interesting can get same speed out of lower weight. I started with 50lb bow out of ignorance.

[@virginalax44]

If you want more speed you should looks to shooting your arrows off one of those devices that you hold like an arrow but it allows you to shoot smaller arrows

[@jeffreydustin5303]

1 inch brace height so all your draw is actually delivering draw weight to the arrow. Use the fastest string materials. Overdraw the bow to a ridiculous draw length. Severe backset, going to be a beast to string. Not a fun bow to work with at all. High draw weight maybe to 500 pounds. Will need some kind of let off mechanism, maybe a special drawing windlass. Moderate arrow weight, not too light, not a spear either. Fletching on arrows would have to be trim, lightly waxed arrows and bow with a low air friction coating. Maybe make the bow out of something like carbon fiber or aircraft grade aluminum, something with high strength to weight ratio. We're outside of traditional wood here so maybe doesn't count as traditional. Wilcox limbs that curl and unfurl as you draw. Limbs hollow so the tension and compression surfaces take all the forces and no dead weight in the core of the bow.

[@kaseywahl]

Oh look, something i never knew i was interested in until like 30 seconds ago

[@mattredfern1339]

shorter working limb and make the nock ends stiff, remove their ability to flex. i am into Asiatic or horse bows as they are known and sure enough i have several different types by now. for instance i have two Turkish style bows and two Mongolian style bows. of the two Turkish style the one i have which properly copies the ottoman sipahi is faster by a considerable amount despite being only three pounds heavier on my scale. the differences are the sipahi has shorter working limbs and longer siyahs, the other Turkish also lacks string bridges which so far as i can tell means there are three reasons it is so much slower. still a lovely bow to shoot though. the Mongolians are a better example to be fair because the slowest of the two different types of Mongolian i have is much heavier in draw weight. the differences between the two are the same, the lighter and yet faster bow has shorter working limbs and considerably longer siyahs although neither have string bridges. the reason i believe that the only bow i have capable of outperforming my sipahi on arrow speed is my compound is because the siyahs and the string bridges act in the same way as a compounds cams do. Hope this helps Brother. 😊

[@raivisskudra5458]

You doing everything right.

[@MJSherwood]

If all we're talking about is raw speed. How light have you gone with the arrow?

[@Blove2125]

Maybe different materials like from different countries that uses horn, bamboo and the designs you said you did. The subscribers you have will say keep on designing and you will find the right design and material to get that achievement. I do believe in you and you can do it

[@adam-k]

Not at #40, no. Go up to #90 or so. Also that might not be true but I would change the working tip to a longer stiff one. Possibly add a string bridge for sharper launch. 200 fps with a #40 bow is awesome though.

[@jeffallen6754]

200 fps is fantastic trad arrow speed out of a forty pound pull is amazing.

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Modern Korean bows can use very light arrows and you get close to 300 ft per second. Ottoman, Sipahi style should be the most efficient and fast shape...

[@longdrawarcher4857]

Grizzlystik had one back in the day. But that was at 70 lbs with a 350 grain arrow. I bet that bow was extremely uncomfortable to shoot, I believe it was called the carbon nano.

[@bilalyldz9647]

You can try combine bows

[@monokheros5373]

Riser Angle + SAYA + Tune-able Bridges + draw weight (+ pentecost ? design...)

[@jwjenkins421]

As a bowyer im always trying to find that balance.

[@kylefletcher7666]

So you made a recurve ? Not trying be sarcastic actually curious love your channel and your honesty !

[@eytrix]

Make it longer?

[@crustymarine86]

What about the medieval style ling bows? Arnt those loke 150lb draw or something?

[@rudiefrank3093]

Let us know when you get it!

[@MakeElectricity]

use carbon fiber-fiber glass composit

[@frankwolf9187]

Do you sell any of your bows?

[@EarthPoweredHippie]

It needs to curve the opposite way at the ends of the bow

[@garywinebrenner7452]

Do you have a store where I can buy my first bow?

[@jasontsang2232]

It's possible: use very low gpp and do a partial dry fire

[@ninjagenjin9510]

Love this ❤

[@nevillesavage2012]

Groves Spitfire is a fast bow with incredible engineering. 300 is gonna be rough to achieve

[@710CAP]

What grain arrow are you using for your testing?

[@WizeMan1222]

Is it possible to make a recurve handle section and then add recurved limbs? Super curious

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Recurve means the tips point forward. Most traditional bows are recurves. Has zero to do with handle. Handle can be deflex or relfex or neither...

[@davisstellman]

The potential answer may be supercurved limb tips... would be very very hard without modern materials if not impossible.

[@jaredhaughey6367]

What about shorter arrows?

[@C_Burnz]

Just go with lighter arrows, you'll probably damage the bow but you'll get faster speeds

[@saywhat9410]

So from what I know about basic stuff it's about the energy stored plus the energy forced so if one is lacking then it won't go any faster and all things have a limit of storage and force of this energy so it maybe the material used! But sometimes when we multiply the material we can store more or force more. I think you have dedicated more time then anyone to know if the boundaries have been meet. If you do keep going I would love to watch. You find things and explain things very well so don't take this as a fail just because the limits of the material have been found but a foundation of what you have to work with! Good luck and my God bless you. I hope you find an answer.

[@butchssurvivorranch360]

Bump up the draw weight on the second design... maybe also try a traditional rawhide string 🤔... but keep trying mate 200fps is pretty dam good 👍

[@Cursed_Bower]

Had to doubble up my 410kg dyneema due to snapping the string 😅 Insane

[@charlescote8391]

It seems....a 40 # bow should be near the same as a 60# bow...if you use the same arrow specs ( 10gm/lb). Unless you don't mind breaking your bow because of ultralight arrows, i don't think you can do it.

[@ehisey]

First design is visibly flawed because of the large riser. It forced to much of the draw in to weakest limb. Second design more closesly matches fast historical bows by artifically flexing to the handle getting more power stroke in the stronger mid curve of the limb.

[@manny2ndamendment246]

Still waiting for someone to make a supersonic bow.

[@nthesinningfish1938]

The closer to the hand that limbs bend, the faster the arrow. Look into Korean War bows

[@chrisward7699]

Make or buy a magyar horse bow , at 70# at 32", fast flight handmade string, traditional wood arrows at 350 to 380 fps, carbons were better at 406 to 425 fps. These bows are the ancient styles of magyar horsemen, Japanese, Egyptian, Mongol, and many other ancient cultures used this styles of bow.

[@ehisey]

Only if you are vastly under weight on arrow. And even then getting 400fps is unlikely.

[@musikSkool]

Its called "flight archery". It is hard to find information about. If you take a really light arrow you can get it over 500 fps. The world record distance bows can get an arrow over 600 fps. *Edit:* It is very common for bows to explode at these speeds because you are basically dry firing them with arrows so light. The bows usually only last a few good shots before they either break or start to lose performance.

[@benji280792]

Yes but with compound bows that made 165#. And with overdraws

[@musikSkool]

@@benji280792 Do they count the total drawweight during overdraw? Stacking will increase the weight.

[@benji280792]

@@musikSkool compound bows, not horn bows, those with wheels. This kind of shooting almost doesnt exist anymore, the bows used to use metalic cables as strings. The official record is 1700m .

[@musikSkool]

@@benji280792 Okay, so the style of bow he is using probably won't exceed 500 fps. But maybe if he used a footbow or crossbow. Those two records are very close to eachother and both exceed 500 fps.

[@benji280792]

@@musikSkool 500fps is aproximatelly the speed of the string when you shoot without an arrow. In fact, the more power you get, the heavier you limbs will be and the heavier your arrows will need to be. A 150# longbow shoot at 190fps when a 50# shoot at 175fps. The gain is not that big. If you want to gain speed, you have basically three levers. - arrow/# ratio, but the more you will go down, the less the energy transfert will be efficient. ( And the max speed will be determined by bow design, limbs length, limbs weight and shape) - draw length and stroke, the longer you push the arrow, the more you give it energy - bow design, you need the lightest limbs possible and a shape that make the draw curve that looks as closest as possible to a constant curve that is at the max draw. ( I guess that if you make spiral limbs, the draw will be the most constant, you can see a try with border and morisson limbs that have big curved limbs, when you pull them, it's really constant, you even have the feeling that there's a let off in the begening)

[@0ooTheMAXXoo0]

Oh, and you can add about 15fps with bow hand technique! Has been well tested!!

[@ConniBrennr]

I think. The number t bow will work eventually you'll get it😊

[@dsdssdsd283]

Arrow weight?

[@sabia247]

I hope u achieve this 300fps traditional bow, but it will be on materials that is made. Something that can transfer elastic energy to Kinect faster.

[@connorgarland113]

200fps is still a massive achievement 🤘

[@RIBill]

Squeaking out FPS will require the lightest arrow and the lightest bowstring. If going all trad, I'd opt for a flight bow with a silk string and SUPER thin bow tips. That said, an exceptionally fast recurve is anything that goes past 200 fps. So you're talking about 100 fps more than the fastest bows. That seems like an impossible task.

[@PrintingEvie]

Like the movie avitar Add a backwards bow to the front

[@greazy5616]

Kramer...dude, if you have a 40# at 200 fps...people, like me, would probably buy that. Curious to see where this goes.

[@markhuckercelticcrossbows7887]

you can do it! you are... GI JOE BOW MAN, McTwang N Bang!

[@kennyv.7247]

I'm interested! Keep trying......it might just become reality

[@hawkfeather8]

So you “discovered” what Eicholtz developed in the 1950’s a reflex deflex recurve bow. All you had to do was look at most recurves in the market since the 60’s.

[@elee9056]

*cough* more like asiatic bows *cough*

[@hawkfeather8]

@@elee9056yes! Eicholtz studied and adopted the modern recurve from asiatic bows, it’s a very old design. And this dude claims he “discovered” it 😂

[@elee9056]

@@hawkfeather8 🤣

[@joaoarturdasilvapiteira9239]

Composit wood + ram horn

[@GregoryMahn]

Lighter arrows go faster. Heavier arrows go farther. 😮

[@richardstrombergoverkill5099]

I want to buy a 300 fps bow!

[@benji280792]

You should look at Morrison or border hyper curve limbs. You need an overdraw to get the lightest arrow you can. You will need to change your form to add draw length. And go up in poundage. There's a guy that has a 305fps recurve in Germany. He pull 100# @30 with light arrows. Personally, i have a recurve that shoot at 260fps but i use 330grains arrows with a bow that weight 57# @ 32".

[@aaronwalter1549]

make the fastest bow ever by putting the bowstring on a electric pulley that reals in the string at 100mph or something

[@shannonlandre4442]

Try making a horn bow.

[@barretharms655]

90 LB BOW #2 As a short bow. Which means you're going to need 4 serpentine limbs.

[@FKNDBSTP]

It's all in the definition of "Traditional".. 😅

[@mw472]

no traditional bow can shoot a properly weighted arrow (min 8-10 grain /pound) 300+ ft/sec.

[@jareddaugherty84]

If you had read "the traditional Bowyers Bible " volumes 1-4 you would know that

[@MRnostate]

Takes a heavy draw weight to hit 300 without the leverage of cams.

[@th0reodinsson547]

Turkish bow is your best chance. They simply mastered archery and were superior in every aspect of warfare when it comes to bows

[@TonyTroxel-fo2iu]

If your hitting 200fps with 400 gr arrow at 40lb im in hit me up

[@desmondtieku6610]

Make a bow in nature from scratch 😮😊

[@gregewing3916]

Take a look at the Hungarian bows

[@M5guitar1]

Seems right and wrong. Right?

[@nanoo1579]

❤🎉🎉

[@SFsc616171]

#2!!

[@johnneathery6714]

look at a bodnik bow, i think that’s how it’s spelt

[@BorderArcheryLTD]

Why. What makes them fast? Energy or mass of limb??

[@bmanleeone9192]

lighter arrows heavy draw.

[@jingchaoye]

Turkish bow is fast, and korean. both are short

[@The585cphillips86]

80# limbs should get you there.

[@KittMonsta]

The exponential function enters the room. You want the arms to move in two stages first forward then upward. That's how to get fast. So fast in fact that you can potentially reach the speed of light. We don't know how but that's the limit.

[@Daniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiielle]

Smaller arrows

[@yaellimon897]

"S's" limbs ?

[@GallonMilkProductions]

Have you considered talking to a physicist or mathematician? I'm being serious here, I have "a guy" I call for my dumb invention problems

[@mordyfisher4269]

Turkish bows shoot up to 400 fps

[@juhamenna1494]

What is traditional bow? For sure its not bow where is fiberglass or plastic or modern glues. So, don't use your thinking time about 300fps bow until you move to traditional bows. Another thing, is weigh of arrow consired to lbs of bow. Have to be stantard.