Kratos Tells To Mimir How Heimdall Is Weaker Than Other Gods He Killed - God Of War: Ragnarök

[@skywardbound67]

I love how confident Kratos is about facing Heimdall. He's just like, "If he can see the future, he can see the ass whooping he's about to get."

[@Runforestrun]

I mean he killed Zeus. Who is vastly more powerful than Heimdall.

[@quentonwalton8175]

He also killed Boulder

[@bukworm2k4]

And went after Hermes himself who was much faster and much more battle experience than Heimdall.

[@Shotzfired03]

@@quentonwalton8175 huge rock vs kratos

[@owenchafer1083]

@@quentonwalton8175 THE BOULDER TAKES OFFENSE AT THIS ACCUSATION.

[@pablocrawford3922]

I love how Kratos now always tries to find the most peaceful way to resolve issues but the second Atreus is at risk he will not hesitate to reenact what he did to Olympus

[@danziker]

I'm with Kratos on this; if anyone or anything threats my baby girl, I will not hesitate to go full medieval upon it.

[@Xenobears]

_Kratos, to Heimdall_ : You want to get Poseidon’ed? Because threatening my family is how you get Poseidon’ed. _Heimdall_ : Who’s Poseidon? _Kratos_ : You’ll meet him soon enough.

[@schwarzwelt6803]

@@Xenobears poseidondeeznutz

[@ngnevergone7587]

Exactly that it is the right thing

[@Succubus_L0li]

I mean it's the same reason Olympus fell in the first place. The gods were playing games with Kratos.

[@sirbenedict2519]

I saw somewhere that Kratos hit Heimdall the first time in 3 attempts because he was baiting his foresight. The first flurry was slow, wide-arcing punches to gauge the extent of his foresight. The second was faster, tighter punches to see if Heimdall actually had skill in using his foresight or if he was too dependent on it. Once Kratos made contact ("These are new bracers!"), he knew the extent of Heimdall's combat experience: very little. The third flurry was fast, compact, hard, and it landed, and that actually stunned Heimdall and made him doubt his ability

[@oceanman7336]

i saw that exact comment too and yeah thats how it seemed to me as well, all the other characters warned kratos of Heimdall's foresight and so Kratos being Kratos had to test it for himself and he learned that Heimdall wasnt shit

[@buttermanaws4693]

I looked up the fight again and yeah I see it, that's exactly what he did and I love that little attention to detail

[@KarthikSaravanan13346539bb]

seems like Heimdall can only see like one or two moves ahead and not really more larger picture things

[@saltyshrimppasta]

Eric Williams (game director) also said in an interview/podcast with IGN that he clipped Heimdall with his ring, which caused the cut. One way or another, he got him with Draupnir, which is a really nice touch.

[@synergy8879]

he traded foresight for brain cells apparently

[@addictedtochocolate920]

Here's the thing: Heimdall's abilities in the right hands, with the proper training and knowledge, can set the bases for the development of one of the most powerful deities in the GOW universe. Meanwhile, Heimdall as an Individual is one of the most useless and brainless opponents Kratos has ever fought. No strategy, no adaptability, no cunning, not even a sense of self preservation to fight another day. His whole thing is *"I cAn seE tHE FUtuUUure!"*

[@ZekielAsh]

*"I hAvE tO StOp yOu fRoM DeSTrOyInG mY PaNtHeOn.... iN ThE FuTuUUurE!"*

[@NicholasJFury]

he had awesome powers, he just didnt use them properly

[@ashwolf2006]

Heimdall comes off as a bully who has the teachers on his payroll. Until someone puts takes away the thing that makes them think their untouchable is taken away.

[@Kyzen_Wrell]

Kratos: …But we already did that. Heimdall: I knew you’d do that! And now I have to kill you now!

[@ivanchu8415]

"fuuuuutuuureeee. fuuuuuutureeeee" - Squidward probably

[@LhLeo]

Kratos spends 2 entire games holding on with his policy to not be murderous again but when it comes to possible threats on his son he just begins gathering weapons and goes “no I will kill him and this has to be done.”. Truly the dad of the year.

[@NamMyohoRengeKyo-d9u]

But of the century uhh...

[@darkkyuuby960]

"I just want to talk to him, I just want to talk, I just want to shoot him"

[@demoneyeslaharl]

He kinda debunked that on this game when he talks to Freya. "I will kill in the defense for my family and friends. But I won't be anyone's monster." He has a very pragmatic view on his morals.

[@ArthurPrince03]

he did let heimdall go but he refused to retreat. Heimdall was a fool sadly. Like nth is lost from running in battle to fight again another day

[@LhLeo]

@@ArthurPrince03 yeah and when he pinched Heimdall down it doesn’t seem that Kratos was hesitating either he just wanted to give him a chance. To me that was a really good reminder that shows as much as Kratos doesn’t want to kill, it also wouldn’t hurt even if he decides to.

[@henryzamora4360]

Heimdall is a good example of wasted talent He didn't push himself past his limits and stayed comfy and safe near odin That's why they all lost Thor was the only dangerous one because he was constantly on his toes and had so much experience

[@RaptorJesus]

Odin himself was no slouch either, though for him "pushing himself" was trying to figure out the fabric of existence.

[@NinjapowerMS]

On the contrary, I don't think Heimdall was a wasted talent, it was shown much that he was a very competent hand of Odin. Keep in mind Ragnarok happened much much earlier than anticipated. Heimdall just got unlucky and stepped on the toes of an apex predator. I also disagree that he didn't push himself past his limits, He was very much capable of that and came out harder after his Hand got cut off. Again just got unlucky he faced Kratos in his young god years.

[@ArthurPrince03]

@@RaptorJesus Odin would've averted ragnarok easily had it not been for his own greed. But that's just how prophecies work

[@ZestuboArchfiend]

The way I see Heimdall is that he wasn't really wasted potential. So much as he was someone who didn't feel the need to get stronger than what he already was. Whether we like it or not, Heimdall did have some skill and credentials to his name along with his foresight. Odin himself wouldn't have trusted Gjallahorn to him if he felt he couldn't take care of himself, or have the power to protect it. That said, Heimdall was someone who was a rather skilled individual. The thing was, he was only truly skilled against those weaker/less experienced than him. Mainly thanks to his over-reliance on his foresight. But against more skilled/experience and most importantly, level-headed combatants. His advantage quickly begins to crumble because they would know how to handle it and deal with him. As its been stated, take away his foresight, and while he could possibly put up a fight for a while. It wouldn't take much to take him out.

[@regidio5083]

It is 100 years too early and I suspect this Heimdall didnt develop to become a skilled noble warrior that was canonically known for. No training and no humbling event. Then again Baldur isnt a cute boy but a Connor McGreggor expy so I could be wrong.

[@tsap9]

The Heimdall fight is summed up pretty well by the Mike Tyson quote “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” Heimdall knew exactly what was coming and what he should do and then Kratos rocked his shit anyways.

[@locomojoboy2]

He never should have got hit if he’s able to know exact what was coming.

[@specialnewb9821]

​@locomojoboy2 Sometimes there is no way to avoid a hit. Then you have to try to tank it in a way that does the least damage. Heimdall had 0 experience doing that.

[@meldrickedwards1892]

People really need to stop regurgitating that nonsensical quote.

[@pierre-mariecaulliez6285]

"It matters not that you see the storm coming, you are still powerless to stop it" Dragon Age Inquisition Not the wisest source, but slaps nonetheless, and a nice lesson all the same ;7

[@nojaodoggo2896]

Hahahahaha

[@bpf10]

Lmao I loved the one part where Mimir is talking about Heimdall's foresight and how he can see Kratos' intentions and Kratos just responds with *"I INTEND TO KILL HIM"* so straightforward and endearing Kratos is 😂

[@stalinsoulz7872]

And Heimdall's moment fully solidify what was kratos was like

[@heimdall_loyal]

ugh

[@henrykberonio9008]

​@@heimdall_loyal Farbauti whooped your ass

[@lennydoorknob8949]

Lazy writing to give a very forced shallow feeling of badassery

[@matthewriley7826]

Though Kratos was taking his foresight seriously when he decided to make the spear, and he was right that just because Heimdall sees something doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be able to react in time.

[@jimstoesz3878]

Heimdall is basically just a more annoying version of Hermes from Kratos' point of view. The only difference is that Kratos actually has a good reason to commit deicide this time!

[@namishusband818]

Kratos killed Hermes for the Jordans.

[@dethbedsmolzwhent.t6498]

We dead ass mugged Hermes for his Js 😂😂😂

[@lem0nade_899]

@Clay Tablet Shogun them Jays was lit

[@daltonobrian2596]

Never insult Kratos or his family or you will die

[@oceanman7336]

@@dethbedsmolzwhent.t6498 exactly Kratos had the timbs and Hermes's Js were just out the box

[@lucaswickmansound]

I love how every time someone is like “Kratos you can’t kill them they’re too strong” he just goes “ok and?”

[@soldierofgod7412]

Who said that they’re too strong for Kratos ?

[@IronianKnight]

Kratos could easily steal the quote from the Lich of Adventure Time. True, they are strong.. but after what he's done, what he survived, he is beyond strength. Kratos is no less than an inevitable consequence for whomever holds and abuses great power. Their end, embodied in a man from a far lane that doesn't exist anymore. I don't think anyone but the Hindu gods or the Abrahamic Almighty and their best servants could stand a chance in terms of power alone.

[@manuelcordoba5394]

And kills them anyways

[@themanwithnoname1839]

Nah i say hes more like ok cool TO YOU hes strong, to me hes nothing more than an ant to me.......

[@W47689]

​@IronianKnight kratos literally was the god of war, then hope then vengeance and now has altered his fate and is now working with Freya. Becoming Kratos the God of Justice.

[@lilchaos9212]

The thing is Heimdall was tough because of his foresight and being able to see your moves before you make them. But once you take that away he's actually quite weak since he seemingly never had to actually try to learn to fight properly. He makes so many easy mistakes. It's funny he made fun of Atreus when I'm pretty sure that if he didn't have his foresight then Atreus would've beaten him.

[@noneofyourbusiness4294]

But he had the foresight, so he beat Atreus. Kratos has the ability to act on pure instinct, and still maintain control.

[@jajo3203]

Tbh Atreus probably could

[@testval]

how did kratos actually beat heimdall when his whole thing is about being able to see your moves ahead of time. why does kratos' spear give him an advantage in a supposedly unwinnable fight against heimdall?

[@dorianbeil3332]

@@testval My guess is because the spear can be detonated after initial attack and Heimdall would be too focused on oncoming attacks to watch his footing and be inside the range of the spearheads AoE. Plus once he takes damage he loses his cool and fights without self control

[@TheNecroFisherman]

It goes back to when Atreus asks Kratos about growing muscles like his. You are born a god and have it within you, but it’s effort that achieves the results and physique of one.

[@juriansan019]

Damn why this dialogue "If Heimdall must die for Atreus to live, then Heimdall must die" really goes same as "if all of olympus will deny me my vengeance then all of olympus will die"

[@calamityknyte]

Because when Kratos makes up his mind, he makes up his mind. And it would take a lot to make him budge on it.

[@DgardsGaming]

@@calamityknyte which he did in end of game, refusing to kill Thor

[@calamityknyte]

@Sons of Gaming And that's why he survived. Because he changed his mind.

[@sohangurung7098]

I don’t know why but i feel it’s almost same to the draco line in the rocky movie if he dies he dies😂

[@HAMZA-OLYMPUS]

@@calamityknytewhat kind of dogshit take is this 😂 no

[@patrickmartin6449]

When Kratos mentioned the part about how when prophecies were revealed to people in his homeland, along with how despite their efforts to avoid them, they ended up happening anyway, it instantly reminded me of a quote from Master Oogway from Kung Fu Panda. In the scene he says, "One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it," and I suppose, in Freya and Kratos' case, truer words are yet to be spoken.

[@CamSiv996]

Yes, and how he mentions that it was fated for Atreus to go to Asgard while trying to prevent that but it happened anyway.

[@overthemoon34]

The original quote actually comes from Jean de La Fontaine.

[@patrickmartin6449]

@@overthemoon34 Yeah, I looked that up at one point, pretty interesting.

[@jstar3382]

I thought about Oedipus. I wish I didnt

[@briarmason8737]

Self-Fulfilling Prophecies. A real pain in the ass.

[@syrupsnake302]

For those who are wondering how Kratos managed to keep hitting Heimdall: Remember when Thor said he and Kratos are destroyers? That's why, both of them fought for so long that their skills were honed to the point they do it as if it's an instinct, destroying is their instinct and nature. Heimdall can read minds, not instinct. It's why he said "What's in that empty mind" when Kratos had him pinned against the wall, Kratos wasn't thinking of anything, his instincts did the work and that's why Heimdall lost, same to Thor since it's clear he also fears him (AKA) a destroyer.

[@matasa7463]

Not just that, but to be able to use your foresight involves more than just the precognition, but also plenty of reflex and speed. Kratos was simply too fast for Heimdall to dodge forever. He's simply stronger and faster, and he can outlast him too.

[@moxxiiscarlett7141]

@@matasa7463 since he was able to take out Hermes, a God who is all about speed, and has the strength to actually face down beings as strong as Titans, he was perfectly capable of handling Heimdall. Also, if I remember partially correctly, didn't he already face a God/being that had similar abilities to Heimdall?

[@gamegen88]

So Kratos is unconsciously using ultra instinct?

[@sly_cat]

@@gamegen88 technically yeah.

[@HRANGTAWNA]

Ultra instinct 🤣

[@Yolpecharalim]

Kratos had the Norns' message figured out. If he had avoided Heimdall or chosen a peaceful approach, Atreus would have died like it was intended. Part of Fate is not knowing how it will turn out; so you follow the path u think was right (In Kratos' case, it is protecting his son. It doesn't always turn out the way he wanted, but it's his nature.) As for Heimdall or Odin, they have the knowledge of the future. By trying to change/avoid it, they are making it come true. Seeing the future isn't a good thing after all.

[@Jefstito]

Exactly. They beat Ragnarok by acting out of their own will, not due to prophecy. Ragnaroks ends up being very different thanks to that

[@lecochonmalefique]

Cause they see just some tiny little insignificant parts of the future specifically the Outcome, doesn't allow them to avoid the true path of what their current lifestyle and is what helps to predict how someone will end, they are gods every god is meant to be killed by it's own stupidity just look at Christian god

[@mr.chaosvicious5968]

Otherwise known as the two of those idiots creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

[@buttpiratesbuttpirate5913]

Self fulfilling prophecy; and when you see that everything you did to avoid the end just brought it on, it's a huge gut punch Heimdall would know

[@ВладиславБулаев-л3э]

You just debunked yourself. Developers said Kratos didn't die in the end by Thor, because he decided to change. Now you wanna tell me had Kratos not killed Heimdall - Atreus would certainly die? You don't make sense.

[@JayElDragon]

What Kratos said here is actually true Zeus wanted to get rid of the marked son who was destined to destroy Olympus, in the attempt to do so ( Imprisioning Deimos) he actually fulfilled the prophecy, there fore Kratos was formed and brought the very thing Zeus attempted to avoid

[@ItsButterBean1020]

plus its a motif in Greek tragedy (like Oedipus)

[@korawitbuttramee618]

Ares wanted to create a might champion to usurp Olympus from Zeus. It went a little too well. Like Kratos said, he succeeded.

[@radityaviqanafnandra7467]

Chronos's prophecy too

[@tyranw12]

@@korawitbuttramee618 actually the one pulling the strings was athena

[@imthemetalguy1]

Chains of Olympus, correct?

[@bhumikjoshi3430]

"I am not locked into prophecy with heimdall , he is locked into it with me" - probably kratos

[@piyushdutta1393]

Rorschach approves

[@aksy1430555]

Kratos vs Heimdall is the literal personification of "hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard"

[@hyakujuunokaido5878]

Wish that applied in netero and meruem fight

[@RositaDepre]

​@@hyakujuunokaido5878cunning and mislead will always beat anything

[@abdulazimnaushad]

I mean when we first meet Heimdall we can actually see hints of him not being a very good fighter. See how he uses sloppy kicks and shoves when he bullies Atreus and Thrud.

[@ShimrraJamaane]

I think it's more "Talent beats a gimmick if the gimmick has no talent". Heimdall had no real fighting talent, but he did have a gimmick that used to help him avoid fighting. In the war of attrition, the gimmick falls first. Classic tortoise and hare scenario.

[@lavabucket11]

One of the great thing about the actual fight with Heimdall is that, even when you first use the spear, the first couple times, he isn't hurt from them, but the first time you actually hurt him is when you end up going in, throwing hits, predict his defense, and then HIT him with just your bare hands. Makes you realize that Kratos could possibly take on Heimdall with bare hands if he really got angry.

[@azriffazli4670]

Kratos did take the spear because Mimir asked him to, and since Kratos never brags/gloats, if he says that he can beat Heimdall, you know he can but maybe not as flawlessly as he did with the Draupnir

[@muhdaqeel7330]

@@azriffazli4670 Taking Draupnir also increased his chances of success. Better to have something and not need it, then need it and be without it.

[@Kronosfobi]

Kratos is a man that likes to be prepared than not most of the time. Which is why he went for the spear, got into the trouble of gettind a new shield and constant upgrades to his weaponry. Heimdall was slower than Kratos, weaker than Kratos and obviously didnt match his prowess. Spear turned out to be useful against every god other than Heimdall.

[@vlad_47]

@@Kronosfobi He got the Spear to humor Mimir and because a second dwarven weapon doesnt hurt either.

[@lordofthepatrick]

Throw the spears at the ground and detonate them as heimdal walks over them and it immediately works

[@passiveaggresso8817]

0:12 wait wait wait… did Kratos just complimented the gods from the Greek pantheon???

[@aidanedwards8931]

It’s less complimenting the Greek Gods and more dissing Heimdall

[@zaariafplays4093]

He sure did as they were stronger

[@sellsword48]

Unlikely, probably just an insult to Heimdall 😂

[@Jadefire1010]

There's a lot of negative things you can truthfully say about the Greek gods, but "weak" is usually not among them.

[@dima_briefel]

No. He did just disrespect Heimdall

[@onepieceking1770]

Heimdall had alot of self pride and arrogance similar to that of the Greeks version of hermes who was the same (well all of the Greek gods were the same but in speech wise Hermes and heimdall acted very much the same)

[@ziriebenton6659]

At least Hermes entertained us with a little song he made up to mock Kratos. Too bad Kratos wasn’t amused😆

[@onepieceking1770]

@@ziriebenton6659 true that in fact kratos was very annoyed lol

[@sureshraghul2715]

Thor had more than Heimdall

[@onepieceking1770]

@@sureshraghul2715 in terms of their fight yes he did thor literally was a kratos in the Norse realm (in that sense he was exactly like kratos with being a slave to the gods while given the powers of one)

[@silverblade357]

I still have no idea what Hermes was thinking. Heimdall is the guardian of Asgard and possesses powers of clarevoyance and foresight. Hermes was the damned Olympian mailman and his chief tactic was running away.

[@tbolt9147]

"Guys even if we reach him we can't kill him, he has the power of foresight." "Don't worry, I'm built different. I'm him."

[@incognitymo_us]

Heimdall: I can see the future! Kratos: So you can see your ass whiped in all Asgard

[@fionnbarrcasey5247]

well in raw power, he most certainly is weaker than other gods Kratos has killed

[@xHollow.]

and in abilities/hax he is mid in almost every category. Hermes >>> Heimdall

[@giotto12scarponi43]

@@xHollow. hermes ran like a bitch he's weaker

[@alphagamer9505]

Except hermes and hera

[@ArthurPrince03]

@@giotto12scarponi43 Running would've given him another day to fight back. Heimdall should've retreated when given the option and came back stronger. Hermes was a coward but a smart one at tht

[@hoh5956]

@@xHollow. Hermes is 100% stronger in every aspect next to Heimi. Heimi can see the future but it means nothing if he doesnt have the speed or instinct to take Hermes out

[@jrod1382]

I see Heimdall and Hermes are very similar in their abilities.Both are speedy, boastful, weak and annoying and Kratos eliminated them with ease.

[@synergy8879]

nah bro we should have carved out heimdalls eyes and replaced them with ours so we get foresight. in short, we gonna mug heimdall for his foresight just like how we mugged hermes for his jordan’s.

[@jrod1382]

@@synergy8879 lmaoo true 🤣🤣🤣 Imagine Kratos would do that and would give the eyes to Mimir and tell Mimir " Head, his eyes he don't need them anymore, use them and see better".

[@TheShineSpark]

holy shit bro your beard are you Kratos?

[@pelinalwhitestrake3367]

And both start with He-

[@jrod1382]

@@TheShineSpark Trust me I get that reaction alot Lol.

[@ColonelSanders493]

Probably the two strongest ones he fought were Zeus and Cronos Edit: honorable mentions...Thanatos,hades and Poseidon But i don’t think the sisters of fate are up there

[@vodkaEditz]

Zeus Hercules Poseidon Hades Ares

[@josephhicks6445]

In their first fight Kratos tricked Zeus into lowering his guard. The second fight Zeus (now free of the influence of pandora box) allowed Kratos to kill him out of guilt for his actions. In a fair fight Kratos can not defeat Zeus. Which makes Zeus the most powerful being in the known God of War universe.

[@callofdutyvulture9116]

@@josephhicks6445um are you forgetting the part where zeus also tricked kratos into lowering his guard? kratos was defeating zeus in a “fair” fight, he only tricked zeus for petty vengeance since zeus did the same to him, kratos wanted to kill zeus the same exact way that zeus tried killing him, he did not “need” to trick zeus as he was beating him before hand

[@callofdutyvulture9116]

@@josephhicks6445if zeus really believed he could easily just end kratos, he wouldn’t have tricked him, zeus tricked him because he was scared, literally, not even shit talk, he was genuinely scared, the prophecy said that the current god of war kratos would kill zeus and destroy all things, so he was scared to just run to him and attack because he knew he would probably die, so he tricked kratos to make it easier and hopefully reverse the prophecy, but in the long run he made it worse

[@drphilsbillz2680]

@@josephhicks6445 tf you talking about zeus letting kratos kill him

[@vincevalie]

Mimir: "And no way to kill him if we did" Kratos: *And I took that personally*

[@yoboicrust]

Kratos went from "If all of Olympus will deny me my vengeance, then all of Olympus will die." to "If Heimdall must die for Atreus to live, then Heimdall must die." From annihilating all of Olympus for standing in his path to kill Zeus, to only wanting his son to live, and it's beautiful, character progression and development at its absolute finest, and it's shown in a moment where he's regressing and slowly slipping back into his old ways he's been running from for so long. Kratos has always been one of my favorite characters ever, and he continues to get better and better with time

[@ThePhantomStinker]

What went unsaid by far too many was that it was also a matter of Heimdall's nature. The Norns knew that Kratos would never let Heimdall kill Atreus, and that Heimdall would never yield. It's like what Dumbedore told Harry Potter about fate: That it doesn't matter for shit (obviously not his exact words) whether or not either one of them believes in fate because Voldemort does believe in fate. Harry and Kratos were both fated to fight to the death because the other in question would accept no outcome in which both of them lived.

[@seriousspikesam7770]

Ironically, Voldemort also fulfilled the prophecy by attempting to kill Harry in the first place. Had he not been obsessed with the fate, he would not have created "the boy who lived" who would ultimately end up killing him.

[@lmenzol]

Kratos had already gauged Thor’s strength in their initial fight. With Thor being the strongest of them Kratos knew Heimdall was nothing to worry about

[@corvus9829]

Thor killed Kratos without being serious... "Oh no, no, i say when we are done..."

[@lmenzol]

@@corvus9829 feigning weakness is a strategy when you’re that much stronger or better than your opponent. If you played any the older GOW games you would know there’s no way Thor could kill Kratos, even more so when you learn that in this universe Gods actually get stronger with age

[@corvus9829]

@@lmenzol Thor killed Kratos and then he revived him to continue the fight. Even the Game Over screen appears. 🤣🤣

[@lmenzol]

@@corvus9829 the game wouldn’t be very interesting if Kratos destroyed everything with his full power right away. I don’t know why this needs to be explained to you dumbass. Things get sacrificed for gameplay sake, can explain why all over Kratos’s weapons need to leveled up again?

[@sans524]

​@@corvus9829Kratos was holding back a lot in that fight because he was trying to reason with Thor. Doesn't mean that Thor's feat was impressive but Kratos could've 1 tap him easily.

[@coladict]

I love how Christopher Judge delivered these lines. > If Heimdall must die for Atreus to live, then Heimdall must die. > If Heimdall is a threat to my son, I... MUST... ACT!

[@giggityskull8986]

The Norns are missing one key detail: they forgot who they are speaking to.... Kratos. The man turned God who escaped death more than once, killed the personification of Death, killed the Sisters of Fate who can erase his existence and then used their abilities to go back in time and change his fate, who at the end killed off an entire pantheon all by himself, and at the end tried to commit suicide and failed. If Kratos can't even kill himself...nothing can.

[@ThePhantomStinker]

It's always been my interpretation that the gods are fated to battle to the death, not because it is their nature to conflict and war against each other, but it is impossible for a god to die any other way but at the hands of another god. Could be five days from now, or five hundred million years from now. But when it happens, that is how it will happen. Kratos proved it. Even suicide isn't a possibility for the gods.

[@sev1120]

One correction: MOST of an entire pantheon. The Olympians smart enough to stay out of his way all survived

[@giggityskull8986]

@@sev1120 true

[@coladict]

The Norns are missing nothing. They told him about Heimdall because they want Kratos to be prepared for that fight. If they had chosen to withhold this information, then when Kratos eventually encounters Heimdall he would have no way of harming him. They told him exactly what they needed to to set him on the path they wanted him to go. Also they lied. Heimdall had no intention of disobeying Odin and killing Atreus. They said "Heimdall *_intends to_* kill your son in Asgard" as in "already plans on doing it". His loyalty to Odin was absolute. It wasn't until being defeated by Kratos that he considered disobeying Odin and killing Atreus.

[@sev1120]

@@coladict but let's not forget which norns they are. It's Urdr who says that Heimdall intends to kill Atreus, and this takes place after Atreus went to Asgard, meaning after he climbed the wall and met Heimdall. Heimdall was fully intending on killing Atreus at that time. Urdr is the Norn of the past Verdandi is Norn of the present And Skuld is the norn of the future Everything Urdr says has already happened to Kratos. He's already died, back in Greece. Heimdall intended to kill Atreus, until he revealed Odin sent for him. The norns do not lie once during the time Kratos, Mimir and Freya speak with them. Sure, they talk in circles, but nothing they say is false. Skuld knowing exactly what they'll say when they say it, and parroting them precisely. Verdandi narrating the course of events, but never directly speaking with the three guests. And Urdr relaying the past without bias or judgement on their actions.

[@KM316-m1b]

Heimdall's downfall was thinking his foresight will save him against Kratos. Kratos did not do anything unpredictable but just upped the speed on his punches until Heimdall's reflexes could not match what he's predicting and then Kratos caught him with a clean one, after that Heimdall's confidence fell apart and he became frustrated and his foresight became useless which turned his fight with Kratos into a fisticuffs, which is equal to suicide as Kratos has never lost a hand to hand fight. All in all, I don't see the bravado, I think Thor would have fucked him up badly if they fought in Asgard when he threatened Atreus.

[@Canadian_Zac]

Kratos actually did change things up. Heimdall shouts 'How can you not be thinking of anytthing!' once you're able to hit him normally. He beat him by shutting his brain off, and fighting purely off instincts. No thoughts of what he was going to do next, left nothing for Heimdall to read. Which, is a pretty huge Oops for heimdall he didn't realize that, when you get to a master level at fighting. You no longer need to think or plan your next moves, and it actually becomes BETTER to rely purely on instinct and muscle memory, since muscle memory is faster than thought. I'm pretty sure Thor could do the same. Or just get purposefully drunk for the fight so he wasn't thinking clearly and heimdall couldn't read him anyways.

[@hugomventura]

@@Canadian_Zac if not it could just be his intentions being so broad, it's muscle memory + keeping things simple. When he is in a fight he doesn't think "I'ma hit him on his left" he thinks "I'ma hit him" and goes for any opportunity that leads to that goal. It's probably why kratos remarks that his foresight will do no good if his intention is to kill him. kratos doesn't have a specific way of killing him, he just takes opportunities that appear for him to do so.

[@akaneriyun4774]

@@hugomventura also, when he spoke of murdering Heimdall before Brok and Sindri, Kratos mentioned "overwhelming" Heimdall with his own advantages. Kratos understood that it didn't matter if Heimdall could see what's coming next; he knew he was faster, stronger, and more disciplined than Heimdall and thus he had more openings to take advantage of. Meanwhile, Heimdall had to rely on what's coming next to know what he's going to do next.

[@Salmacream]

Kratos has lost, he met a guy in battle and lost to him, then he called out to Ares and devoted himself to him, so he could then win that fight. Its the plot of one of the games.

[@tc-channelhobby4051]

@Mister Perfection no he didn't, he killed heimdall.

[@anonymouscinemafan1820]

I have a theory about the Norns. Kratos goes to the Norns for advice on how to help Artreus, and at the time the Norns seem to be insulting Kratos however I believe that the Norns secretly were helping Kratos in there own way. At no point in time in both games are we told that Heimdall plans on killing Artreus (the player knows but not the characters) yet the Norns go out of there way to mention Heimdall. I suspect that Kratos would have been beaten by Heimdall if it weren't for his spear that he created to specifically fight Heimdall. That's the only reason he has the spear after all. So to summarize the Norns helped Kratos by giving him a new target.

[@Deadlyaztec27]

I agree. It was stated that the Norns don't get involved and merely watch, but I don't think that's true. Odin acted against everyone, seemingly, and it's possible he made an enemy of the norns years ago when he tried to see his future. Plus I don't think the norn's would like the fact that Heimdall had a weaker version of their foresight. I can see both of these reasons being why they warned Kratos, thus by merely mentioning he needed to prepare for a fight they made the fight inevitable, and his preparation for the fight certain.

[@bangkhan5554]

"Kratos will beaten if not have spear" Nah 🤣 idk why people underestimate Kratos battle IQ, he is General after all, not just a barbaric warrior with no brain

[@KingMarkus222]

Makes sense to me, cause they are just basically telling them what they already know, if Heimdall is a threat to Atreus then naturally Kratos would do what he does best, kill Gods and it’s no coincidence they mention the one god who holds the horn that would begin Ragnarok and be the only way for them to get into Asgard in the first place, a fight was inevitable all it took was just one more aesir god to die, it just was Heimdall the biggest threat to the kid and the quickest way into Asgard

[@wilddara2792]

@@bangkhan5554 which is why he sought out tools to overcome heimdall's power instead of running head first into a situation despite knowing his enemy had a ability's he could not overcome

[@jaushmarcalabroso6911]

The only reason the Norns help him is because alternative is him destroying the Norse pantheon

[@thekaelixchamber]

I really love how this game plays on fate. I absolutely hate the idea of having my path be predetermined or preplanned, but then they tell us that is there is no fate, only that our nature is so influencial to our choices that it makes our choices seem predictable. Only when we overcome our nature is when our choices can change and in doing so, our fate changes as well. Its so damn cool, because if Kratos went back to his old ways of being angry and distrustful he probably would've died or maybe even just have a different outcome, but IIRC his fate changed the moment he killed Magni and Modi in the 2018 game cause they were not supposed to die like at all, but then again that's just Kratos going back to his old ways, so I'm not sure anymore, go do your own research. Game of year everybody.

[@mrp2301]

>I absolutely hate the idea of having my path be predetermined or preplanned The game literally has markers for where you're supposed to go, climb, crawl through, etc lol. That screams 'pre-determined' for me.

[@Alreeshid]

@@mrp2301 Bit of a difference between paths in a GAME and his take on philosophy my dude, he's referring to the story.

[@Kronosfobi]

I concur. Thor was no slouch, after all the man punched a giant snake so hard, it travelled back in time.

[@kairu_aname]

The point that changed kratos' fate was when he sat down and *spoke* with atreus. That was where he was changing his fate by changing his nature.

[@thekaelixchamber]

@@kairu_anameYes after thinking and replaying the game, yes this is exactly the point where Kratos decided to be less of his old self. To be open to the pain and suffering of others, to make better choices, to try to be better.

[@ÆßV]

*Heimdall:* He can't touch me *Hermes:* Trust me bro...

[@vilgotelvingsson1403]

He hadn’t even met Heimdall at that point tho. It was not so much kratos saying “Heimdall weak” but more so him saying “I truly doubt that I’ll have any trouble killing him considering the powerful gods I’ve killed in the past.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Heimdall had the talent, but no work ethic to improve because he thought he was already at the peak due to his gifts. Seeing Heimdall get humbled was one of the most satisfying moments in gaming.

[@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx]

This is the only comment of yours I have seen without 8,9 septupilion comments. Incredible!

[@FuntimeBacon]

​@@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx Same, usually most of them are full of people asking why they see him everywhere lol.​

[@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx]

@@FuntimeBacon Yeah… Pesonnaly, I don’t think the’re THAT good, but I see the charm in having a guy that spawns every time it’s dark

[@UltimateBallaPOM]

Headcanon.

[@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx]

@@UltimateBallaPOM What is?

[@rebblepebble1857]

If you listen closeley, you can really hear his voice shift back to how he used to talk in the sparta days around 1:35.

[@Force-Multiplier]

no god Kratos has ever fought comes even close to Zeus and the Sisters of Fate

[@vodkaEditz]

Hades and Thanatos.

[@Force-Multiplier]

Thanatos comes close-er but not quite there Hades ain't there

[@iwanttobelieveit]

And Poseidon too

[@vodkaEditz]

@@Force-Multiplier Hades is stronger than Cronos who is slightly weaker than Atlas, and Hades has Atlas soul which made him stronger.

[@Force-Multiplier]

@@vodkaEditz Hades isn't stronger than Atlas we fought Hades with a weakened Kratos and he was no different from any regular boss

[@potato1341]

I like how despite his journey, all the things he regrets doing, he still knows damn well that the Gods he killed prior were greater, almost like he has some sort of underlying sense of superiority.

[@MrJomalley123]

Kratos: I foresee a future where Heimdall catches these hands

[@BrotherBozeman]

Heimdall is essentially an Uchiha with his Foresight Ability, however that in itself is a weakness because he doesn’t feel the need to counter your movements. He feels that the battle is already his simply because of his abilities. Kratos won not just because of who he is, nor because of him being a Spartan. Kratos won because he was counting on Heimdall to fall victim to that of Hubris. Kratos won long before they ever met.

[@claudiourrutiaaranguiz9281]

Kratos would be Killer Bee then. Way more experienced fighter.

[@isaiahgeorge906]

That and if you pay attention to the Heimdall fight, in the first two part out of the three when you disorient Heimdall with the Draupnir spear, Kratos is also testing to figure out where Heimdall is in terms of reaction speed, and once he figured it out, he was able to punch and then constantly hurt Heimdall.

[@hagamapama]

In other words, Heimdall had all of the talent but none of the mentality. In the physical fight he had a chance, in the mental fight Heimdall was a babe in the woods.

[@kkkkkkk957]

This is why you should keep secret of your foresight because it's easy to counter like how Kratos did

[@TheHeavenlyBeast]

I thought Kratos was going to say something like "If Heimdall is a threat to my son, then I am a threat to Asgard."

[@Al-kd6hv]

Remember when Ares threw that spear to kill Kratos from hundreds of miles away? Lol, yeah Kratos killed wayyyyy tougher gods.

[@obry6]

It WASN'T a spear, actually.. It was a HUUUGE pointy boulder... That feat alone made Ares so scary imo..

[@AJZulu]

It was a pillar from the rubble of Athens.

[@Al-kd6hv]

@@obry6 right, that thing lol didn’t know what to call it

[@dominus2184]

Lmao, Ares no scoped Kratos using a giant piller 🤣🤣

[@hampter7188]

None of the Norse gods could ever imagine of doing such a thing…really shows that the Greek gods were really something else

[@lordfury18]

something i thought about especially after playing 3 again: Kratos is merely pointing out Heimdall relies way to much on his foresight, just like Hermes relied way to much on his speed, gods who rely solely on one thing are weaker to gods like Kratos Kratos thinks on his feet, adapts, and overcomes, if he needs to be better he will be better

[@RomMor2]

That's true. But even if Heimdall worked on his talent the outcome would stoll be the same. Just as Kratos mentioned he killed Gods greater than Heimdall

[@lordfury18]

@@RomMor2 so true!! its why Kratos is so dangerous, his spartan hertiage is a great example of why he is the way he is Spartans adapt on the fly, now add their training to god powers and you have an almost unstopable force of nature

[@Alphascrub_77]

Bro... its like there there. Simmering below the surface. The monster, its cage rattles. Muttering, Whispering "Hurt Atreus. Hurt what I hold dear and I will show you what a real "Ragnarök" looks like" The voice acting is top notch, Christopher really let that inner animal peak out for just a second. Really awesome voice acting.

[@gioprox5207]

Heimdall has one crucial weakness (or maybe two). Someone can completely counter his mind-reading abilities by just not thinking. Conversely, it might also be possible to counter his mind reading ability by overloading his senses (as brok said) but heimdall was too useless and braindead to realize that, he always assumed that his mind reading would carry him

[@Armataan]

Heimdall, "I have great foresight! You cannot hurt me." Kratos, "I killed the Moirai, boy. After declaring my intent to do so."

[@c4rlow455]

Aside from the spear, Karatos' second weapon against Heimdall was "No thoughts, head empty" and it's kinda funny but a good adaptation to fight purely out of instincts which caught the foresight off guard.

[@deathhazard7751]

He cut the threads of fate more than once now. "You are meant to lose" Kratos: "no"

[@nz7677]

Heimdall reminds me so much on how Kratos used to be in the beginning of GOW2. Both have insane power but take that away and then they're easily beaten. Kratos arrogance is what made Zeus able kill him. And now, Heimdall's arrogance is what makes Kratos able kill him. Funny how it all comes around.

[@just_a_rapperjetblack9556]

Not even TBH kratos got his powers drained and let his guard down. Zeus pulled a dirty one.

[@kangsate3459]

Iirc zeus throw blade of olympus and tell kratos to let the weapon suck his god power Zeus did dirty there

[@powercouch1845]

Kratos is still a formidable warrior without godly powers tho

[@Gumbier_Than]

​@@powercouch1845yes. Still has his Spartan training and all the experience with journeying to kill a God.

[@lecochonmalefique]

What makes him a true god is that even knowing the possible outcome he goes straight to the wolfs mouth and still succeed

[@anjelica948]

What I love about Kratos as a character is that even if the choices he makes aren’t good- he doesn’t pretend to be anything but what he is, and he doesn’t try to hide it either.

[@iusethisnameformygoogleacc1013]

Everyone: yOu CaN't ChAnGe FaTe Kratos: I killed The Fates. It wasn't hard.

[@cb-9938]

Killing Heimdall is easily one of the best moments in the new series. Perfect example of how skilled kratos is at fighting, first he kills the unkillable and now he punched the untouchable

[@matthews1029]

Heimdall has the gift foresight, but he uses it about as well as the inhabitants of Frieza Planet 419

[@coltonwilliams4153]

I CAN SEE THE FUTURE!!!

[@TheBitingBat]

Heimdall's abilities are a massive threat, without the draupnir spear it could even be argued Heimdall could outlast Kratos. But once his foresight and mind reading could be weakened, and Heimdall's reliance on his abilities exposed, it was basically just like fighting Hermes with less running away

[@RR-v]

Kratos overall training and strength overwhelmed all his foes. Dude is above any primordial

[@Shade_91]

Kratos and Asura, the dads you dont fuck around with.

[@94462]

Only kratos can say that so casually and still sound so badass lol 😂

[@142doddy]

"We have no way to kill him" "Is he immune to being strangled to death? No? Okay, good plan"

[@TheElementsAreWithMe]

I really do like this voice actor for Kratos, everytime he trys to explain anything about himself, he makes it sounds so logical even if about half those things doesn't make a lick of sense. All while perfectly maintaining the core personality of his in the previous game. Specifically "it is, what it is" part.

[@kevinzki21]

a pro player was actually able to hit heimdall but the game didn't deplete his health because they're not supposed to be able to hit heimdall with the chaos blades lol

[@asean_bwoy]

Smoking Heimdall packs

[@oceanman7336]

kratos smoked his ass like a doobie, Heimdall pack hittin hard shit got young atreus wheezin

[@asean_bwoy]

@@oceanman7336 W

[@wildspirewarrior211]

Heimdall's downfall is similar to Freiza from DBZ. He was naturally talented and op from the start making him overconfident. So when he finally looses against someone who had actual skill and experience it destroyed his pride leading to his own downfall

[@walterwhite4398]

The fact that both goku and kratos literally spare them twice but theirs shatter ego wouldn't let them forgives those mistake So easily causing their death at the hands of both goku and kratos

[@Hazearil]

"But brother, Heimdall is immune to all threats, physical or magical."

[@akosorosz1740]

Heimdall fell victim to his own ability to foresee the actions of others. Once he got hit, he gave up all his defensiveness and started fighting recklessly. This proved to be his undoing as he was no match for the Ghost of Sparta.

[@GEDOHBLAZZTER]

Now imagine how untouchable Kratos would be with Heimdall's power...

[@MasonMcLeodFilms]

The first time you actually hit Heimdall with Draupnir was such an amazing feeling, makes me think of when Billy Butcher takes compound V and can actually hurt Homelander now

[@calisthetics]

I think what makes kratos so strong is that even before he got his godly powers he was a trained spartan General. So he already had a lot of combat training and experience. Stack that training on top of his god powers and you have a god with powers who is literally trained for combat.

[@Wilbur-em1hw]

Yep. Right in the name God of WAR.

[@lordofthepatrick]

Keep in mind he actually lost all his god powers by the end of the third game and was just a demi god going into the nordic region

[@putthatcookiedown2188]

Exactly. Hit the nail on the head. The discipline of a spartan with the powers of a god 💯

[@Ben.165]

A thought I had: Heimdall acts almost exactly like Hermes did in GOW3, maybe that was one of the factors in Kratos losing himself while killing him on top of the fact he was seemingly worried about his fate and Atreus? idk just a random thought...have a nice day

[@specialnewb9821]

He stopped thinking, acted on instinct to beat Heimdall. His instinct his nature is to kill gods. Against Thor he made the conscious choice to not follow that nature.

[@DakotaCoughlin]

Kratoses confidence is unstoppable

[@voltekthecyborg7898]

Confidence? Or Knowledge?

[@KGAnims]

Kratos... didn't actually say anything about WHY Heimdall is weaker, he just said he will die if need be for Atreus to be safe.

[@SwordTune]

"Kratos, he can see the future!" "Then he can see me killing him."

[@Akg.Rachet69]

i love how in current god of war kratos is such a good father he taught his son how to survive to fight etc i will forever love the god of war franchise

[@riseagainx]

Honestly kratos should've said that "if heimdall is a threat to my son, then I am a threat to heimdall"

[@Buzzard-wq1bw]

I’m suprised that his fight with Hermès was not mentioned in any dialogue, I know of course that foresight and super speed are two very different things but from the prospective of an outsider they look about the same. All the other characters making a huge deal out of heimdal… dudes.. he de-limed Hermès like he was gutting a crab.

[@Xanedle]

Heimdall doesn't even have foresight technically. He reads brains, that's all that is. As soon as Kratos stops thinking about hia next move and empties his head, Heimdall cant even figure out what to do. That's why he says “what's going on in that empty head of yours” while impaled by draupnir.

[@rdanimetalks7964]

Am I the only one who misses the good old days when Atreus used to Climb on Kratos's back to get over cliffs ... Mann that was wholesome...he sure grew up 😭

[@D.The1st]

Yeah and after the game I miss him..

[@TheArcticTurt1e]

Kratos for 2 whole games: "I have changed, I do not need to kill any more. I will work to be better than my past" *someone even so much as threatens Atreus* Kratos: "Welp, time to bring about ragnarok"

[@manavbhalla2861]

When he was talking about prophecy, he left out the part where Zeus ended up fueling the prophecy about getting overthrown by his son too, by preemptively killing Kratos out of fear

[@Galimeer5]

Kratos: "If Heimdall is a threat to my son, I must act" Me: "I just want to beat the shit out of that little bastard"

[@PulloffPrime]

translation: "you're going to kill a shitty little bastard trying to kill your son" Kratos - "works for me."

[@verovision420]

On all the gods Kratos is literally the best dad ever.

[@jaythewolf7216]

funny thing is Kratos didn't need the spear at all. his flurry of punches were enough to hit him on the later attempts. Kratos could of just beaten him together with his bear hands.

[@destroyerblackdragon]

Gods Kratos killed greater than Heimdall: Ares Posidon Hades Hermes Helios Hera Zeus Thanatos Hephaestus

[@vodkaEditz]

Hephaestus is not greater i guess, since he is a smith god, not much of a fighter.

[@RB8Gem9]

Hephaestus? Really? Helios & Hermes are not stronger than Heimdall either. Rhea? That's the mother of Zeus/Hades/Poseidon... Kratos never meets her. You might mean Hera and that would be just as absurd.

[@bloodangel19]

Fr the whole greek world was canonicaly stronger than the norse.

[@vodkaEditz]

@Ultimate Sora No, lol lmao, Heimdall isn't stronger than Ares, Thanatos, and Hades, Zeus, and Poseidon... Maybe Helios and Hermes Heimdall is far weaker than Kratos. Zeus, Poseidon, Hades and Thanatos are far far stronger than Heimdall lmao. The Olympians are superior than the Aesir

[@COOLESTMONKEY824]

@Ultimate Sora lmao u have no clue about this game stop

[@prateekpoddar1890]

Heimdall: all foresight, no forethought.

[@alpharius4819]

OK but let's say for the sake of argument that Kratos doesn't kill heimdall. The dude said that he'd kill loki numerous times. And if the idiot goes through with it. Then Kratos has no reason to be a better man. He's said as much himself. He must be better for the sake of his son. If he doesn't have anything left, who does he have to be better for? He will annihilate another land of gods, because he decided to subvert his own fate.

[@Eri587]

Hermes vs Heimdall would be interesting.

[@Nobodysurvivesevenonebit]

Hermes would win cause he's faster

[@ohshit8985]

Heimdall claps low difficulty, Hermes can’t even fight. Just runs away

[@axelsanchez5189]

i really love how wise all these comments are about kratos story you really know the hours spent on playing and understanding these games its really beautiful to read

[@twohandedswordsman852]

I like how you mentioned the comments in a positive way. Most people would mention comments and possibly project their insecurity by accuse the commenters "didn't touch grass"

[@ravenpardilla2715]

You cant beat tactical strategy with savagery.This fight is the perfect example, once Heimdall lost his cool about his foresight and decided to take the matters on his own hands. He lost an arm

[@sunthi9619]

if kratos didnt have blade of olympus and was on his own his fight against poseidon zeus and cronos might have ended differently

[@hampter7188]

And didn’t he have the power of hope with him ?

[@chrismitchell3171]

Heimdall is immature and undisciplined, the fact he had never been hit and therefore never faced a real challenge told Kratos all he needed to know, get past that ability and he’s nothing

[@themidnightbanshee5927]

Like some enemies should really take a moment to consider Should I fight this dude who has survived death and killed the entire Greek pantheon? Ya know what you seem like a reasonable fellow and I decided I appreciate myself not dead so I bid you adieu

[@ElectromagNick]

Yes, but as always, hubris. True in the hellenistic world, true in the norse world.

[@ggwp638BC]

Technically both Thor and Odin did that. Thor ended up betrayed and Odin didn't really have a way out other than fighting.

[@liamjm9278]

That's what Thor and Odin did at the start of the game.

[@leninfrank7407]

Kratos basically went Ultra instinct by shutting off his brain and using muscle memory to fight

[@DavZeugme]

"I have changed but if you threaten my son, genocide is back on the menu"

[@rtyrtyrty123123123]

Sisters of fate jobbed to Kratos what hope does Heimdall have?

[@Nobodysurvivesevenonebit]

Greek gods are much stronger

[@Mason-or9xg]

No