Kuo-Toa Clones! Baldur's Gate 3, Nine Hells Challenge

[@wekashipo7507]

Okay, so my understanding of the Yurgir situation is as follows: Ketheric went crazy after Isobel died and turned to Shar. Ketheric started building up an army of Dark Justiciars and killing Selunites. The Infernal Mason, one of the last Selunites left in Reithwin, makes a deal with Raphael, exchanging his soul for stopping Ketheric. Raphael, not the type to get his own hands dirty, has Yurgir do it. The contract was that Yurgir must kill every Justiciar in the Shar temple. If he fails, he becomes Raphael's slave. If he succeeds, it's not clear what he receives. Clearly something Raphael didn't want to give him. If it ends with every Justiciar dead, but not by Yurgir's hand, then it's a fringe technicality where he neither succeeded nor failed and the pair discuss a new contract afterwards. In the process of wiping out the Justiciars, Yurgir destroyed the bridge between Grymforge and the Shar Gauntlet (the place where Nere was trapped). Raphael turned one of the Justiciars into rats to weasel out of the deal. He was probably hoping Yurgir would eventually give up, but he never did. Raphael, likely concerned that Yurgir might one day resort to slaughtering the rats out of desperation, makes a deal with the party to kill Yurgir in exchange for reading Astarion's back scars. Not only does this make Yurgir his slave, but it also demonstrates to the party that he holds up his end of the bargain so that when he comes to them later with the Orphic Hammer for the Crown of Karsus deal, they're more likely to take his deal. He hypes up Yurgir as more of a threat than he actually is because he wants the party to kill him on sight rather than talking to him and finding out about the Raphael deal (and that he very much does not hold up his end of the bargain). Raphael has these webs of contracts, and he's using them to get win-win-win situations, where he gets a Selunite soul, Yurgir as a slave, and the party's trust for a very important future deal, all in exchange for the trivial task of reading Astarion's scars.

[@Melth]

@@wekashipo7507 most of that makes sense, but the trouble is that some things Yurgir says contradict it. He says that if he dies trying, that frees him too. If we go in and kill him while he's still trying to fulfill the contract, that could reasonably count as freeing him. Which would be bad for Raphael. If just straight up murdering Yurgir to prevent him from completing the contract IS an option for Raphael, then why not do it earlier? Why not either just kill Yurgir himself or hire some other guy as dumb as Astarion to do it? (Admittedly people as stupid as Astarion may be rare, but still). Surely it would be better to get Yurgir to work on some new task earlier rather than waste a valuable asset for a hundred years and also risk him just killing all the rats. Plus Raphael straight up invents new rules later on. We hear what we are told is the contract. Nothing in it says he can or can't have help killing the Justiciars. Raphael later on claims that means he CAN'T have help, and our helping him means Yurgir is in breach of contract. But in that case, why not tell us to kill the rats instead? For that matter, Yurgir was clearly allowed to use a horde of merregons and boars and whatnot. Not to mention we see plenty of evidence of Justiciars just starving to death or whatever rather than dying violently. And apparently THAT was all fine and didn't count as Yurgir failing. I'm overthinking a minor detail in a game, but there's just no way to make Raphael's actions logical. It's *almost* a cool bit of writing, but they messed up the details

[@wekashipo7507]

@@Melth I forgot about the "die trying" part. Yeah, it really doesn't make sense. I could possibly understand why Raphael doesn't go in to kill Yurgir himself (interfering directly rather than some adventurers just "happening" to interfere), why the Merregons and boars killing is fine (they're practically mindless and under Yurgir's command), and why Raphael never mentioned the rats (it's better if the party doesn't know so they can't tell Yurgir). But Raphael ordering the party to kill Yurgir despite the fact that it should resolve the contract in Yurgir's favor, and then later saying that it does not resolve the contract in Yurgir's favor, is frankly a plothole, the more I think about it. And more importantly for a devil, a legal loophole.

[@fanaticownage]

When you were trying to move Astarion to the edge of the climbable rock, hold Shift. Holding Shift disables taking ladders and such so you can move along the wallable terrain at the top

[@Melth]

Ah, that's a good tip! Does it also disable just walking off cliffs though?

[@fanaticownage]

@@Melth I don't think I've had anyone just walk off a cliff that would hurt them. The damage Astarion took was an issue with a character occupying the space you need to be in to use the ladder/cliff I believe.

[@sarahch15]

Hello! I’ve been playing along with your nine hells challenge and I’m having a blast! I’m not sure if this is on purpose or not, but this video doesn’t seem to be in the playlist for the nine hells challenge. Thanks so much for all of the helpful videos! I love the combination of D&D lore with gameplay tips. It’s very unique and I find it super valuable. I’m looking forward to future videos!

[@Melth]

Thanks for the reminder about adding this to the playlist! I'm happy to hear you enjoy the series so much!

[@jampk24]

@@Melth To follow up on what this other person said, it seems this video is out of place on the playlist. I was following the playlist and this video just appeared at the end after all the Yurgir stuff.

[@Sonic19bg3]

Hey very cool Challenge that looked so much fun I started one myself With the Same rules and had very much fun until the start of Act 2. the Power Spike is just so much that every Boss/Group dies in the First Turn or second(Tugir only Beat me With initive 😄) And Even then only Karlach took like 20 hp with 3 small rest to use. Just got into Act 3 and with its lengh I hope it gets a Bit more complicated with Spell management. Maybe for next Challenge I have the Idea either 1. Magic Item Limit on Characters and/or short Rest Limits Like Act 1 : 2 Act 2 : 1 Act 3 : 0 But love your Series ❤

[@Melth]

Glad you're enjoying the series and that you're trying this challenge! I think act 2 is the easiest act in the game in general. It's almost empty of enemies, most of the enemies have a self destruct button in conversation, and a lot of them aren't any tougher than act 1 stuff. See how act 3 goes, I remember that one being harder (albeit not as hard as early act 1)

[@draka393]

My understanding of the Raphael, Yurgir situation is that Rapahel is trying to get you to kill him, because if Yurgir fails in his quest he's forever bound to Rapahel. If Yurgir refuses to give up the only way for him to fail is for him to die.

[@Melth]

What Yurgir says at one point though is that if he 'dies trying' then that also resolves the conflict. So if you kill Yurgir without Yurgir giving up, Yurgir should be fine. Which makes it weird for Raphael to tell you to kill Yurgir. On the other hand, if you HELP Yurgir then Raphael makes up some nonsense which is not even in the contract to claim that Yurgir has failed by accepting help. But even in that case... Raphael still doesn't act as though Yurgir is now bound to him with no choice. He says they can negotiate a new contract, rather than Raphael just giving Yurgir orders or something.

[@draka393]

@@Melth I misremembered the die trying part. Hmmm. Maybe since you're not a dark justiciar you killing Yurgir doesn't count as him dying trying?

[@Melth]

@@draka393 maybe! Really it just seems like Raphael makes up whatever rules he wants as he goes along

[@morpheus24]

Close reading and interpretation is key. Yurgir won't give in (as that's against his nature) and as a warrior he'll continue unto death.

[@lukesandadordoceu4835]

@@Melth I really hate that about Raphael, he just makes it all up as he goes along, a failed attempt from larian to show the lawful aspect of “lawful evil” from devils

[@brokenmeats5928]

I love ALL Melth videos!

[@macross3730]

Your tactics are scary efficient, cant find a single thing to complain, rather i have learned more. ps you prolly wouldnt even need the summons...

[@danny234555]

23:00 that happened because you didn't move Karlach after climbing the "ladder". Ladders in this game have fixed entry/exit points and if you don't move a character after climbing or descending one they end up blocking that end. The game couldn't find a path to the top of the wall to climb down, but it could find a path to the bottom to climb up.

[@Melth]

@@danny234555 that's sometimes true, it sometimes you can stack an infinite number of characters in the same space at the top/bottom of a ladder. It's a powerful exploit for things like getting a speed potion on every creature in your party

[@MrRyleco]

Is it just me, or is there a mad echo going on?

[@sambosung350]

Yea there’s still an echo. It’s not terrible but it’s hard to not notice, however I’m far too starved for this series to care lol😊

[@Melth]

​@@sambosung350 hm. I haven't been able to hear the echo since several episodes ago. It was really bad for one video, then I put up a lot of stuff on the walls in here and I haven't heard it since

[@sambosung350]

@@Melth strange maybe my KZbin then it was mostly at the beginning. I shall check for updates and rewatch again later. Only a few mins in now

[@dinospfc]

So this is why you missed the Eversight Ring. It is found in the morgue area that you probably skipped before

[@Melth]

Hm, maybe. Though I do remember going through the morgue and battling zombies and poison traps there, etc.

[@dinospfc]

@@Melth there's 2 rooms where the zombies are, 1 has lore the other has gear

[@man_apologist]

i actually think yurgir does live up to the hype for your average playthrough, the orthon bombs plus his thunderwave attack will oneshot most characters on balanced idk about explorer. depends entirely on the ai whether he does that though sometimes hes a pushover anyway

[@Melth]

@@man_apologist on balanced, any party, even one that isn't very strong, should be able to wipe him out in a single round though. He has terrible HP for a boss even on tactician. Like it feels outright weird that a monster so big and brawny looking is so fragile

[@strunkshade]

@@MelthI do believe the surprise aspect makes him much scarier when you don't know what's about to happen and see him throw out a buncha bombs then go invisible for you to deal with all these minions, lots of peoples I've seen will send their melee dealers towards the meregons while trying to CC yurgir, exact opposite of what you should do. Yurgir fights quite well when you try to meet him outside of his invis and busy yourself with the minions.

[@man_apologist]

@@Melth yeah but the average player is much worse at this game than youd think lol

[@pflauzestumpen1718]

wow finally caught up with the current episode, great playlist. you once said you didnt play act 2 as much and would appreciate hints towards hidden or more challanging encounters. you probably already know but just in case, in the gauntlet of shar in the big room before you meet balthazar in person for the first time there is a final battle against these dark justiciars with portals spawning more of them. if you dont destroy the portals and just kill all the justiciars, they will fade away on their own after spawning a certain amount of enemies and one of them even spawns a small boss as well. the sheer number of enemies makes this fight quite the challange, for me the hardest fight in act 2 since i also rarely long rest and saved up the morninglords buff as you did.

[@Melth]

@@pflauzestumpen1718 thanks for the tip! I did actually know about that room, and found a way to let alllll the enemies spawn in before fighting them all at once in a humongous combat. That battle is epic and really fun. In total there are 30 dark Justiciars!

[@Melth]

@@HQbaracuda I don't think that would work as well because then the Justiciars would swarm him instead of me. Plus if I kill him there, I can't do the massive fight against his undead army in the shadowfell

[@Melth]

@@HQbaracuda I wouldn't say it's THAT much harder, but it's certainly harder. There's a ton of skeletons, whereas his 3 ghouls die in like 1 hit apiece and iirc his brother has substantially less HP and AC than Malus Thorm. I'll bet with good tactics I can wipe him in one round either way though

[@wekashipo7507]

I think the idea of Yurgir being hard primarily comes from his high initiative. Despite his looks, he's a glass cannon. Beat him in initiative and have at least decent DPR, and you can wipe him out in one round with little effort. Lose to him in initiative, and he can throw his bombs and turn invisible. Especially if you're playing blind and aren't expecting his ambush. And the greater community of BG3 players tends to severely underestimate the importance of initiative. Half of the "OP build to trivialize Honour Mode (NOT CLICKBAIT)" builds will only have like +2 initiative, which makes it literally impossible to go before Yurgir.

[@courier6960]

Yurgirs initiative is one of his most powerful / problematic aspects, especially in the house of hope fights where players are setting traps and trying to trivialize the fight. You can set up barrelamancy all you want, but yurgir almost always goes first, and he will prematurely detonate everything, even if you have alert and potions of vigilance, it isn’t guaranteed you’ll beat him

[@lukesandadordoceu4835]

You can equip the Warding Bond rings, use the spell and take them off, and the spell would still stay in effect, if you’re not bothered by such “exploits”

[@Melth]

@@lukesandadordoceu4835 I'm not sure whether I consider that one an exploit or not. I might do it since it's fun and not that powerful overall

[@morpheus24]

Not like the Icebite Robe.

[@louishealy2696]

Age of Mythology retold pls!

[@Melth]

@@louishealy2696 yep, I'll be getting it when it's released for most people in a few days

[@Peter-cc7fi]

I think Astarion lost his Agathys temp hit points

[@Melth]

Yeah, looks like they're removed as soon as he takes off the Icebite Robe. Which makes that a pretty bad item in my opinion. At least for most characters. A barbarian might have some fun with it for 1-2 fights per day

[@cannyvalley8522]

Something slippery in that pit, if I recall correctly one of my characters also slipped there

[@curlyfryzzz1]

The lightning jabber actually makes for a fun weapon for a reverb EK thrower build. Otherwise not really worth it lol

[@Melth]

@@curlyfryzzz1 yeah, it can be fun, but not really good in my opinion

[@deadliftpapi94]

i wish you had a mic :( i watched all the way through though might try this run. just beat honor mode the other day

[@GianniCampanale]

Can it be I have something to teach you? If I understood correctly you mistakenly ordered Astarion to move in the wrong place but did not stop him in time. Well the panic button is right click, it arrests any movement (probably something more), I took sometime to muscle memorize it but it is a bless after a while: wrong move order? right clik! as simple as that

[@Melth]

@@GianniCampanale I keep forgetting that. I learn it every few months when some dumb movement disaster happens, but then I don't need it for a while and forget

[@ilkid9373]

They just showed some cave as the title screen in early access 😂

[@jakobandersen3210]

11:04 they always have two. idk why but they do xD

[@Melth]

Although it has always been 2 for me, I've read that it sometimes is just 1. Cause unknown apparently

[@cannyvalley8522]

Two chieftains in my playthrough as well, now I have 2 lightning jabbers

[@Melth]

@@cannyvalley8522 If only the lightning jabbers were good!

[@FractalityX]

New MELLLTH

[@adamholland1860]

I don’t know if you’ve gone over it before but if you have I don’t recall…but what is the deal with the Strange Ox and the ooze in this section? I’ve played it of course several times but it feels like they were setting up something that I just never saw through. Why is the insight you get from the Strange Ox related to this area but it never seems like you can explore further in that realm? Maybe I’m dumb or maybe they just didn’t make it any deeper than the surface level of just “creepy ooze ox is bad boy”??

[@vade5308]

Play aom retold!

[@Melth]

I am, though tbh I haven't been having a lot of fun with it so far

[@vade5308]

@@Melth yeah I had the same problem. I just continued playing and once I got used to the new balance changes then I had fun

[@Melth]

@@vade5308 I think the new interface and cartoony graphics (and Athena's weird intonations) are what are bugging me so far

[@vade5308]

@@Melth I would really enjoy you playing the whole campaign again, I really enjoyed that in the early days. Also the missions are different, different maps(only some) and some mission more difficulty.

[@Melth]

@@vade5308 I'll check it out