Villains in Dragon Age Veilguard VS villains in Baldur's Gate 3

[@serenth8310]

For anyone spouting nonsense that you cannot use bg3 as a comparison I will remind you that bioware made bg1&2 and dragonage was made their successor where they owned the IP. This is EXACTLY the game you compare Veilguard to!

[@kingszeno]

So you're saying I should compare DO with BG3. Makes a lot more sense, considering I treat Veilguard as a no-name.

[@Adrian7070-h4g]

Dragon age was called the spiritual successor to baldurs gate Oh the irony

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

Wait... There are people who say you cannot compare the two??? That's stupidity. They're both video games, firstly, so they can be.. secondly, Dragon Age is a spiritual successor to CRPGs like Bg1&2... It's not our fault Bioware has been garbage for 10+ years and cannot make a serviceable CRPG, so they make RPG-lite games like Inquisition, Andromeda, and Veilguard.

[@bluehazard2]

that might be true, but this is like comparing fish stick to dog chew, just because it looked the same doesn't mean they taste the same.

[@Adrian7070-h4g]

@@bluehazard2 But dragon age was MEANT to be like baldur's gate. Having played all baldur gate and dragon age games i guarantee you this was definitely the case (obviously i don't mean they were identical) Somewhat less so in dragon age 2, but it was relatively forgivable.

[@montv2]

Raphael is 100% disney villain but he somehow is still better written and more threatening.

[@AverageVagrant]

Because he was suposed to be all dramatic and playful. Not cringy and oh-im-so-srious

[@awsm253]

To be fair, Raph was a Disney Villain done right. Like, Disney from several decades ago. And not just Modern Day Disney.

[@Oni-Di]

@@awsm253 You..definitely haven't watched a modern Disney movie. Most of them are EXACTLY like Raphael. Princess and the Frog comes to mind.

[@themeat8624]

his boss music was thw cringiest part of bg3 for me, but I still love his character.

[@DragonKnightX12]

​@@themeat8624I thought it was great. Man sang his own boss theme. Lol

[@cheese3enjoyer]

Next the Dev's are gonna say:„It’s unfair to compare our game to BG3, they totally ruined gaming by developing an actual „good“ game, standard is too high now.“

[@nods5137]

And more ironic - many of devs had ALREADY said something like that in the release days of BG3. "DO NOT COMPARE US! THIS IS THE ANOMALY!"

[@spectralassassin6030]

Nah. They already did that when BG3 released.

[@Joyful_Traitor]

@@spectralassassin6030 Yeah weren't they saying something like don't expect games to get to BG3s quality that it is outside the norm

[@65firered]

That already happened, immediately after BG3 dropped. Hell, it happened when Elden Ring dropping.

[@shiro2400]

BG3 is truly a AAA game.

[@torshec8634]

Poor Solas, trying to carry the entire game while the Mighty Morphin Villains can't decide which long standing Dragon Age mystery needs to be butchered.

[@MRTwizyfizzy]

Since they destroyed all older settings, the games lore is pretty much slaughtered.

[@garroshhellscream594]

And for some obscur reasons while being all powerful gods they refuse to engage in battle with you early on to kill you, despite the fact they know you are here AND carry the instrument they both needs and threatens them. They have archdemons and blighted dragons. They could simply put under fire the whole area from the sky, the veilguard has nothing to defend itself from that. Pining down the Archdemon in Origins (Uthermiel) and the false archdemon of Corypheus asked something (Riordan's sacrifice and the power of the well of sorrow), but here, they just gently land where you needs them to in order to die.

[@TJVBernal]

​@@garroshhellscream594 I was waiting for the "gods" to do some arcane warrior stuff that they set up in DAI but most they do is... well... I kinda forgot what the fight looked like. I forgot about it immediately after as it was a Solas story immediately after it

[@revanscript]

​@@garroshhellscream594 And Elgar'nan is much stronger than Solas. Remember how Solas killed those Quinari in Trespasser without even looking at them? They just turned powerful gods into generic bosses that can be killed by a random guy who is nobody, what a mockery of a game.

[@leviticusprime4904]

Hallmark of a shit writer, answering mystery’s that were never meant to be fully answered

[@mateuszbanaszak4671]

Villain singing his own theme song while the bossfight was not on my todays bingo card.

[@RealNTAF]

hes the best disney villain in a long time

[@C4TC4T]

Did not expect anything like it in bg3, hands down the best fight in the game

[@hideakiakio6698]

And I like how if you use silence on him the song ends which means it's not just Boss music he's actually singing it in universe

[@jeremytitus9519]

@@hideakiakio6698 well that’s just brilliant

[@MikayaAkyo]

@@hideakiakio6698 Actually anything that would prevent him from singing. I stunned him and it also stopped XD

[@ZodiacMeteor]

What's with Veilguard and everyone lecturing? The reason why Raphael 'lectures' are so enticing is because you try to read between his words, trying to find his true motives, you know he is playing with you, and he enjoys it. For Veilguard, how many times are we going to listen to "I destroy to make the world better later" nonsense? Sometimes people step on others for their own pure selfishness, that's reality.

[@IvoryKnight22]

Because some modern writers can't appreciate a villain that isn't a walking trope of "Isn't a real evil but just misunderstood." Or "A hero of their own story." And Evil for Evil is just "lazy writing"

[@Masyokan]

Bad writers can’t write subtext and nuance.

[@Elite_Tauren_Chieftain]

⁠@@IvoryKnight22Raphael is evil just because he’s evil. He hasn’t any “greater good motive” or “understandable tragic backstory”. He’s evil just because he’s evil The difference that he is capturing and entertaining.

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

Raphael can rap so...

[@dr.f2142]

it's a way to roleplay over intelligent character. Teach, instead of calling everyone an idiot. That's what Raph do, and do it great!

[@aguy8545]

I like how the BG3 clips have different avatars, meaning you went through multiple playthroughs. But the DAV clips are all the same Dwarf, because it's not worth replaying.

[@LecherousLizard]

The illusion of choice in BG3 is quite a bait, yes.

[@stardustdragonx3612]

​@LecherousLizard What illusions are you talking about, puss?

[@Mugthraka]

Cause ther eis no replayability in DAV you get 4 "options" for answers, and each of them as the same conclusion just worded differently.

[@Mugthraka]

@@LecherousLizard You have no fucking clue of what you're talking about huh?

[@collenjets123]

@@LecherousLizard there are quite a few places in BG3 where your choices do matter and have consequences, alongisde the illusory ones.

[@oneverymadlad1124]

Body language was what noticed the most. Bg3 characters move in their own showy ways while it feels like everyone in veilgaurd just freezes in place to chit chat

[@biteyofbrackenwood]

hell, even Skyrim is more animated in dialogue

[@V123es]

The conversations aswell.. in BG3 it feels real and unique to that character in Failguard its overly animated sickly identical emotionless crap. And dont get me started on the actual words 😂 failguard been written by a troglodytes who just learned to talk

[@ItachiUchiha-ns1il]

What I found really jarring about enemies in Veilguard is that they’re nearly all faceless. It’s like the game doesn’t want us to kill people with faces.

[@raphaelregnault6914]

Gotta have the Rated E for everyone to sell better !

[@garroshhellscream594]

It's too much to ask them to actually do different models for enemy faces, so they chose the easy way. KKK black mask for everyone.

[@AzureRoxe]

Enemies that looked threatening now also look goofy like the Darkspawn, almost like they don't want you fighting actual monsters anymore.

[@leviticusprime4904]

@@AzureRoxethis game is rated m as in mature as in blood and horrific monsters? The only thing tho makes this game have the m rating is the nudity, and even bg3 did that better.

[@carpenoctem]

@@leviticusprime4904 Nudity thats entirely excluded to the character creator lol

[@moisesfreire6408]

Solas is a character so complex the writers of Dragon Age The Veilguard had to add two generic "we're evil and we're going to destroy and dominate the world because we're evil" type of villains because they knew they didn't had the capacity of developing a history with a character this deep as the main antagonist.

[@canisinumbra]

Actually they reveal they want to turn the world into beauty, so no... it’s not as one dimensional as you think.

[@nabeshimaruthven6530]

No, you just don't know what is an Evanuri like Elgarn'an. They were leading with Gilanain the Ehlvenan without any sharing power. Enslaved their own race and looked for greater power. They are just who they are, Megalomaniacs for who, beauty is build with an another meaning. Destruction of the present Thedas is what they crave, no need of originality when you have two ancient gods like creatures with a dream of an old empire to rebuild.

[@Vizardlorde]

This is an unfair comparison because one is a "legendary" RPG studio with a publisher with 43 billion net worth and the other is a modest self publishing AA studio trying their first AAA game.

[@Dragon_Lair]

And the modest studio blows the bigger one out of the water in a genre the bigger studio built its name on with the franchise that the bigger studio created.

[@florianfrey9258]

Hehehe, nice one. :p

[@xanaccent]

This comment was written better than most of Veilguard.

[@theobell2002]

@@Dragon_Lair You do realize 400+ people worked on BG3, right? That is not "AA" by any stretch of the imagination.

[@Dragon_Lair]

@@theobell2002 And it's still a LOT smaller than BioWare, and had a much SMALLER budget. It's also the franchise that made BioWare famous to begin with. Dragon Age was BioWare's spiritual successor to that very same franchise since they didn't own the IP to Baldur's Gate. Larian also doesn't have EA funding. By every metric Larian is a far more modest studio than BioWare is and is far superior to them in every category.

[@shyviking]

Ketheric Thorm is just so badass in that first scene. -You (the player in the first playthru) literally shudders as the thought of facing off with this immortal maniac. Even a minor baddie like Kagha is well done. First time you meet her, you're like "wait... Aren't druid supposed to be peaceful, merciful tree-huggers?!". Well not this druid; "the viper must strike". And take the dialog in BG3. Both Raphael and Lord Gortash have that combination of eloquence and terror to them, that Darth Vader also had. Like "mess with me at your OWN risk".

[@quint3ssent1a]

If you start as an "evil" race (a drow), Kagha would try to pull something like camaraderie for evil dudes, like "yeah, you're a drow, and I'm a dark druid, so we should understand each other", and I was like "take this woman to the infirmary, she's delusional."

[@getterzth6957]

Yeah after every bs she put the refugee and her grove gone through. I still find her redemption arc is kinda weak like "Kagha you shouldn't work for the Shadow Druid they are stupid" and boom her eyes open.

[@kaiogiovanni]

Even after I've freed the Nightsong I was still scared to face Ketheric, and for a reason, cause I had no idea how I would defeat her without Nightsong as an ally.

[@soldiersPL]

@@kaiogiovanni Me and my friends got a saying about that game There's nothing that adding more explosives won't fix, if it haven't, that just means more barrels are needed

[@namethis658]

Ketheric Thorm is a pretty cliche character, though. The other two of the trio are better developed. And Raphael and the Emperor shine.

[@johndeighan2495]

The final scene w Raphael is so much better because until that point he has been toying with you. Now for the first time you have the initiative and he isn’t in control. The whole game has been setting up this moment and then the music starts and the whole thing just SLAPS.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

To be honest, if the fight was longer/a bit more difficult, and had a better arena, it would no doubt be far above any other for the suspense building throughout the entire game. It is better than both the fight against Gortash or Orin. But to be fair, the act 2 final fight is better than both of those also.

[@zockerfprever]

@@lVideoWatcherl try it in honour mode - he is level 16 there and definitely harder without spoiling too much. If you don't want to play honor, because of the single save - you can choose the ruleset in custom.

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@zockerfprever Am currently doing my honor mode durge run, looking forward to it when I get there

[@ethanduncan1646]

I don't think any fight can compare to the pure rush of emotions that I had doing House of Hope for the first time. The God tier loot you steal from his house, The dreadful build up to the fight, and the fucking music. It was perfect and I literally ran away from my computer with how excited I was to win the fight. The kicker is the entire quest was optional! You find it by exploring the city and talking to a random shopkeeper.

[@N00bKefka]

The moment you went in there, steal his rod and tell him that he sucks in bed

[@operatorenabla8398]

How I love when writers don't need to put special effects on a villain's voice to make him threatening

[@GuitarGuy057]

Fable. The Lost Chapters fucking ruined Jack's voice.

[@PsyCoil]

BG3 managed to strike a good balance between the drama and playful absurdity Larian is so known for (speaking with animals, Karlach breaking 4th wall). The game never take itself too seriously, and its villains do feel Disney-like, but still approachable and fun to interact with. Raphael is a good example of this, but also Auntie Ethal. From a "sweet old lady" to a hag who steals children, like something straight out of folklore tale. This is just the sort of stuff you expect from Larian.

[@LadyOfTheLake860]

I think the balance is important. BG3 ist comedic at a some points, especially in act one. But it also knows when it needs to become serious or take itself serious.

[@bismarck5537]

Even though I like silent protagonists from time to time, Tav, Durge or origin characters speaking with their real voices when we play as them would be nice. That would require hundreds, maybe even thousands of new lines for VAs to perform so it’s nearly impossible. BG3 is probably one of the best games I have ever played. I hated turn-based combats before playing BG3. Now, I am addicted to that.

[@jojomaster7675]

@@bismarck5537 Yeah, but as you yourself mentioned, it would likely be impossible to have voiced Tav/Durge. Not only because there's A LOT of dialogue for the player, but because you can make so many completely different characters, you would need to do all of those voice lines at least 6 times over, likely more. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I like the silent protaganist of BG3, because it lets you "make" their voice yourself.

[@thekid6258]

​@@jojomaster7675Okay with Tav I agree, it suppose to be your character, a self insert, but Durge? Ngl his default (and canon self) does shine with having a voice of his own, specially when you confront Orin.

[@jojomaster7675]

@@thekid6258 The is no real "cannon" durge. Actual cannon durge is a corpse you find in Orin's room during a Tav playthrough. Durge is a fully customisable character that can have countless endings, appearences, and even personalities if you so wish. Just as an example, my Durge was an ancient seldarine drow monk with a split personality caused by Baal's blood, whose old personality started slowly coming back to her due to her memory loss and tadpole, which is far from what you would probably consider "cannon". And it would be a huge turn off for me if this buff old drow lady for some reason spoke in the voice of a lizard man. There's so much more this game allows you to do than just make a self-insert, and being limited by a few voice options would only hinder that creativity.

[@junglered2009]

I remember Raphael singing his own battle music. It’s so cartoonishly corny, I love it

[@killer3000ad]

One game was made by a AAA developer with a long history of immersive single player RPGS. The other an indie developer who at one point in their history was so low on funds that after finishing paying everyone's salaries, their boss didn't even have money for gas in his car.

[@Xxsorafan]

@@killer3000ad is it really AAA developer? I think even the people who worked on inquisition were fired/left before or during production of veilguard

[@Bulsara777]

@@Xxsorafan in terms of overall budget, yes, it's AAA.

[@SahyuSoley]

i love how visible elves just walk amongst venatori and nobody cares lmao

[@AzureRoxe]

The devs clearly ignored that Elves in places like Minrathous are slaves.

[@emilyladanzarinrostro658]

There is a lot of elven citizens in the empire, you need to read more about the tevinter society

[@emilyladanzarinrostro658]

Other thing this is more a technical issue this people are playing the game with the option hide helmets, in tru everyone have their faces cover

[@deocharismostrales4142]

​​@@emilyladanzarinrostro658right because that means tevinter where slavery literally still exists suddenly became "race-blind" with no classist baggage lol Fenris says 👀

[@graye2799]

​@emilyladanzarinrostro658 There were a lot of freedom black men in the south, but that doesn't mean it would make sense to see them walking around in a party for rich people.

[@Wolfe420]

The characters in Veilguard talk so frantically and awkwardly. It's hard to remember what they even said when their dialogue is over.

[@wickerwork_wesley]

the dialogue is also very disjointed at certain points either due to the writing or the stiff voice acting. It often makes it seem like they're not listening to each other.

[@deocharismostrales4142]

@@wickerwork_wesley i actually think it's the writing. The writers probably thought it was endearing or "representational"

[@65firered]

17:44 He had to turn up the music. Yeah, Raphael alone just walks all over Veilguard's villains.

[@wiseausrs]

I lol'd so hard at that

[@Legoman775]

Raphaels story alone obliterates Veilguard. Im very surprised that voiceactor or Kethrics didnt win the best voice actor award.

[@CertMediocre]

​@@Legoman775 and you can very easily never encounter him outside of Act 1 depending on some of your choices.

[@kittybearise]

@@Legoman775 Raphael's VA, Andrew Wincott, actually won the bafta award for his role!

[@Noxthedunmer]

Myrkul rising up from the abyss in BG3 is one of thw coolest and most badass things in a game. Gives me chills every time.

[@erridian6838]

Yeah...too bad shooting an arrow of darkness into his face makes his whole fight a cakewalk XD haha. But yes, such a badass looking villain :3

[@Ron_Jambo_]

​@@erridian6838Every game becomes easy af when you cheese it

[@seb3661]

@@erridian6838 honor mode?

[@TwoHandedChargedBonk]

Yeah. In fact, the entire Act 2 is filled with amazing boss presentations. Literally every member of the Thorm family could be a boss in Dark Souls.

[@Noxthedunmer]

@TwoHandedChargedBonk I agree with that

[@Yuri77711]

3:35 "You have exchanged verbal jabs with Solas" JFC thanks for letting us know.

[@Ailoy_]

I could listen to Ketheric all day. Even when talking about killing you, he says it so calmly and softly. It makes you want to hear more. J.K. Simmons really did such a fantastic work here

[@flauscheballchen2855]

Raphael singing his own battle theme you just can't top that

[@Legoman775]

it fits his ego perfectly too

[@alloran0987]

Nice touch adding Saravok in there, literally a villain Bioware created. Even as a side character he's more entertaining than any of Veilguard's villains.

[@Zog26]

Raphael is written and acted as a character who makes sense, makes very plausible points, has an actual personality and works for the Royal Shakespeare Company in his spare time. He is every bit the Lawful Evil archdevil, who will stick to their side of the bargain but leave it to you to decide if you can pay the price demanded. He's a villain you could do business with. What's better than a devil you don't know....a devil you do. Nothing wrong with insisting on a bit of order and decorum, if you ask me.

[@thekid6258]

Honestly, I was tempted to do agree with the deal a couple of times with him, his assistant saved me from prisión back in the Goblin layer, and he does help you like with Astarion and the Hammer, but sadly, that all comes with a price, one Raphael can change as he seems fit.

[@justinahmer7116]

Totally agree with you first play through the whole experience of Raphael from the first meeting to the house of hope boss fight is great over the top at points but it works and he seems like someone you would want as a friend even tho their evil, for me personally the first time I saw how crazy the people are that have sold their souls to him like the theologian eternal debtor or the lady crawling around acting like a dog or the guy guarding his chamber pot that always stuck with me like to show how Raphael even tho he’s likeable he is still someone causing tremendous suffering to many people

[@chaosinc.382]

0:56 This would have been much better if the guy merely said "All you must do... *IS KNEEL.* "

[@23503129]

All Qunari mofos look like different versions of handsome squidward.

[@Alwaysttango]

It will be years until we see a villain like Raphael again, bafta winning performance

[@Oni-Di]

You'll see him in the next Disney movie you watch. Lmao. There are so many villains like him.

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

​@@Oni-Di Name 5 villains from games in the last few years who are like him, in both characterization and quality.

[@Oni-Di]

@@H41030v3rki110ny0u If only I mentioned video games. You'll be hard pressed to find many like that in video games because most games these days take themselves either overly serious or don't have the narrative freedom BG3 has to do so. I could name you 10 from any other form of fiction. Hence why I said Disney movie.

[@AzureRoxe]

@@Oni-Di I notice how you didn't answer his question nor did you name them in movies.

[@H41030v3rki110ny0u]

@@Oni-Di why does that matter? i didnt say you mentioned video games, you used phrasing more ubiquitous "There are so many villains like him." .. but that still doesnt matter when taking my request into consideration. as well, now that i think about it, if they're so prevalent then surely within the BIGGEST ENTERTAINMENT MARKET in the world, the gaming industry, there would (likely) be disproportionately MORE of these villains than in music, television, movies, etc.. so, i'll try this again, because you dodged the original post.. Name 5 villains from games in the last few years who are like him, in both characterization and quality.

[@nemomagnum]

Ketheric walking off lethal injuries is a badass introduction. And Raphael singing his own villain song during his boss fight is hands down one of my favorite moments in the game

[@Keram-io8hv]

It is bad when you realize BG3 Sarevok (someone who I always say is just some Bhaal´s puppet with his face) had more personality than Elven gods who were main villians

[@C4TC4T]

He was in the first Baldurs Gate games, so it’s also a nod to that (it was really cool to get to fight him honestly)

[@KidVolcano]

​@@C4TC4T He was also a recruitable companion in BG2 and the DLCs...

[@tipakornkoompakdee7800]

Vlaakith can chew every gods in Veilguard and she doesn't even a goddess in her own universe!

[@Leishtek]

Vlaakith is so god damn intimidating. For some reason I had to replay that scene where you talk to her a couple times. Eventually you're just like "no, screw you, you're not even a real god." You try to call her bluff and she nukes you with an immediate game over. I never felt so put in my place by a villain. I think it was then I decided I was going to stop playing goody 2 shoes and get serious with these guys.

[@baron-chan6484]

Ketheric Thorm is a sympathetic villain done right, you can even give him a moment of redemption if you find his wife's final letter And he's voiced by the Legendary JK Simmons, what a great character

[@CapucineNighly]

What?!.. Need to replay now. Thanks

[@thefogg]

my wife n i played through the game. i asked her right before the final battle. "wait, do we really need to fight him? because he just wants to do his own thing. yeah it can be considered bad. but they live in a world that does need people like him'' we passed the speech check. and that blew my mind

[@TheSilentsama]

I like how Raphael said: steal and do anything you must. But when you do steal he got mad at you lol

[@V123es]

Ikr lol 😂 what did he expect?

[@StefanBrokowki]

Fun Fact. Elgar'nan actors Joseph Capp was also in BG3 as True Soul Nere. One of two possible Final Bosses for Chapter 1.... He was also in Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty, and Space Marines 2.

[@canisinumbra]

And it’s interesting how people attest Elgar'nan's voice actor to be bad while BG3's voice actors are great.

[@StefanBrokowki]

@canisinumbra It's direction and scripting. Not an actor Problem. Joseph Capp most likely did exactly what he was directed to do. To bad the voice director and the script was bad. It shows cause Ally Hillis and Brian Bloom were in this and weren't good but were good in other things.

[@canisinumbra]

@ Ppl said the voice acting is bad, the acting itself. The hatred for DA:V is so ridiculous

[@StefanBrokowki]

@@canisinumbra Yeah I know. Sometimes the acting is an actor problem. DA:V is not an acting problem. The actors did there jobs correct. It's a directing problem. Most of those actors gave good performances in other stuff. The directors just don't know how to get the most out of there talent. I mean Ramon Tikaram was in DA:V and he was great in DA:I, Overwatch 2, and Elden Ring. But he just lacks the same feel as he usually does because of lousy direction and script. I mean I imagine there is one or two actors who are bad. But they would probably be an exception.

[@canisinumbra]

@ Again, they find the acting itself, the actors bad. Stop excusing the bs.

[@Patrious_WoW]

the dude that played Elgar really gave it his all for the roll. shame its like putting diamonds on turds

[@kidd32888]

He is very good but the game failed him

[@palomanavarro6150]

Bro you can not compare JK Simmons to any other villain, period

[@Duckman8213]

I have never seen Isobel in that scene with Ketheric. So many things I still haven’t seen even after a dozen playthroughs.

[@nemomagnum]

Same

[@KidVolcano]

Same!

[@kidd32888]

Just break your heart is this version of her😢

[@AnastasiaAisling]

Okay, but Yurgir was right there and you didn't include "good luck, little rabbit, you're a finer hunter than any wolf"? Outrageous! Kidding, ofc, great video.

[@M.W.H.]

DA would've been a masterpiece in the right hands. What a shame.

[@efxnews4776]

@@M.W.H. if they fully committed to make Solas the villain, and write the story for this perspective, it could be a great game, Problem is that the writers on Bioware, aren't capable of writing a even a good cartoonish villain, let alone one off the hardest type of villains wich are sympathetic ones like Solas was supposed to be.

[@M.W.H.]

@efxnews4776 Exactly. I also think they should've kept the Inquisitor and his party as mains and add new members. Too much foundations and relationships are built in The Inquisition to leave them out like that. Veilguard makes no sense whatsoever. If, Bioware are back to their roots one day, i hope they make a proper sequel to Inquisition as if Veilguard never existed. But, i have a feeling this won't happen.

[@deocharismostrales4142]

​@@M.W.H. there's a part of me huffing copium that might still be possible bcus they barely utilized the keep. they can easily spin PR and say, just kidding guys, veilguard was an action game spinoff to onboard new fans, here's the real DA game with world states and everything, the events in veilguard was just one possibility!

[@M.W.H.]

@@deocharismostrales4142 nice dream, if only it is true.

[@C4TC4T]

AND IT TOOK 10 YEARS TO MAKE AN APPEARANCE 😭

[@Jacksonstreet71]

What you get when a game is made by people who love games vs one made by marketing hacks.

[@fosaimaginator3920]

Legit, i was terrified in my seat when i first saw Ketheric Thorm's introduction

[@V123es]

Same! I was dreading facing him in a fight

[@Miles-i8k]

"Try again" 2 simple words made into a shivering aura.

[@benstanfill363]

My jaw dropped at that scene.

[@lmLana]

Hydrogen bomb Baldurs gate vs Coughing baby Veilguard

[@scottsummers31]

SweetBaby Veilguard

[@raielle]

ITS MAAMGUARD!

[@shikarymtg]

"You are planning on betraying your allies." "Yes." Great writing right there.

[@MKTyphon]

Try again he said Then the fool went for his neck, to failed. That is badass.

[@hawkshot867]

Dude when I met Throm for the first time (I never went to the towers, so missed the whole goblin scene), I immediately sympathized and wanted to save him. From the strength of the writing of 1 conversation.

[@OnlyDeathIsEternal]

All Veilguard is: Wasted Opportunity, and thats why the game hurts even more.

[@brisngrfiftysix6085]

Man, when I first saw that Ketheric scene I was fuckin awed.

[@Ratface0007]

I hate how modern video games insist on making the graphics as realistic as possible, especially if it’s a fantasy. It looks pretty gross. I honestly like graphics with an older-looking style because it gives some more room for artistic expression

[@nemomagnum]

I'm the total opposite. I love the more realistic graphics

[@poxelus]

I think BG3 has nice realistic fantasy graphics. They meld well together if done right.

[@lukesguywalker]

I think BG3 gets a good balance, but I agree. Sometimes I want to see something a bit stylistic and fantastical.

[@Alorand]

The Solas scenes are extra sad for me because they are like a rotting corpse - you still recognize the remnants of what was.

[@Star_dragon8]

Raphael and ketheric from BG3 would clap the cheecks of everyone from failguard

[@canisinumbra]

Surely not with Solas.

[@heliocentrismo3959]

@@canisinumbra who?

[@BySpartan]

@@heliocentrismo3959 annen

[@DarinCzGaming]

First time when I was at Ketheric I was like: Wow thats a fucking cool villain here. He is so good by me but it is sad that you cant really save him

[@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou]

i dont know if this was patch a long time ago but right after i got to play because i played in beta or alpha that there was a scene with kaetheric coming back becoming redeemed i swear it was him im like HOW??? how did i do this? was this a bug?

[@Synthia17]

@@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou If you find a letter from his wife in his room, you get a special option to try and redeem him but Aylin butts in and attacks, maybe that's what you've seen?

[@Rinefi]

remember that what matters most in these types of games is story with the multitude of decisions you can make. Baldur's Gate 3 is a great demonstration of how it's done.

[@joe_krogan]

Bro ketheric's intro goes so hard. The perfect example of show dont tell. He just takes an axe directly to the throat like its a calm breeze, then mocks and makes an example of the one who dared to attack him. Thats how you display power.

[@NeroBurningRome]

Why does the Qunari dude look like the big albino guys from Prometheus instead of actually looking like the Qunari...

[@canisinumbra]

You do not know who the Qunari are and you forget about Sten.

[@kudurrumaqlu]

Villains in Orgins is good enough

[@shyviking]

Yes... You literally hated Loghain as a player during the first playthru of DA:O. Not to mention Vaughn in the city elf origin. Even as a male player myself, it was just stomach-churningly unpleasant to play thru.

[@deptusmechanikus7362]

​@@shyviking back when games weren't afraid to make their players tense or uncomfortable

[@efxnews4776]

@@shyviking in DA2 you have the Arishok. In DAI the quality of the villains start to decay, but even them Solas was set up to become a greater villain in the 4th entry....

[@Rem-753]

@@efxnews4776 it's sucks that Kithshok [Arishok in DA2] either dies in Kirkwall or somehow loses the tome of koslun again...all roads lead to off-screen Arishok Sten

[@Lowlin85]

I felt the introduction scene where you finally meet the Butcher in Treviso was actually really good. Super creepy dude. Only issue: You kill him in the same mission he is properly introduced and then they replace him with a small angry bald man, such a waste of a potentially good villain 🥲

[@Omgits7ito]

The look and feel of Bg3 is what my imagination pictured for the future of dragon age. 😢

[@HHH-vo6ec]

The heads are so big in veilguard... cannot unsee now

[@aquelehiru3179]

The tevinter gods being just pawns without will is such a punch in the face

[@faberofwillandmight8758]

The Tevinter Gods were always the elven gods. Even in Origins there hints about this from Darkspawn altars that look like what Elgar'nan does to Halla shrines and the Codex entry for the Archdemon.

[@tipakornkoompakdee7800]

Tevinter gods was an elf but BioWare nuke the old god lore and make it a pawn to an Elven gods

[@aquelehiru3179]

@@tipakornkoompakdee7800 yeah they being a panw whithout will.

[@vladdracula8103]

The Old Gods are the Elven gods. It’s a Greek/Roman god situation. There was always a theory in universe that the archdemons weren’t actually the old gods but just corrupted high dragons.

[@Xxsorafan]

@@aquelehiru3179 weren’t the old gods elven too?

[@Synthia17]

I can't get over Elgar'nan being the same voice actor as Nere in BG3 Oh and Raphael is the greatest villain since Gaunter o'Dimm from Witcher 3 and I'll die on that hill.

[@canisinumbra]

Great villain? Embarrassing you mean

[@Synthia17]

@@canisinumbra How is he embarassing?

[@V123es]

Hes nowhere near as powerful as Gaunter but just as entertaining and somewhat likable...at first. Got thumbs down from me once you find out he likes his bf turning himself to look like Raphael 😅 lol

[@CapucineNighly]

​@@V123esNot even his bf, just his pet. XD

[@zacharynyberg7007]

Pretty sad how many sad bois and gurls spent money on Veilguard..and think its the best experience yet they shove off badasses like Rapheal and Ketheric...

[@irondragon3430]

There's a few of them spewing bullshit in this very comment section!

[@lbonn2282]

I waited 10 years to see Elgar'nan be the big bad and this is what I got.

[@clairestark9024]

As a side im actually quite dissapointed how much of a dud the elven religion turned out to be.

[@connorm3961]

The introduction of Ketheric Thorm is perfect

[@rustkarl]

Saying it’s worlds apart is an understatement.

[@spookyface4304]

LIFES OH MORTAL LIVESSSSS EXPIIIIREE!!! SOULS GO TOWARDS THEIR DOOOOM, IN FLAMES FOREVER MOOOOOORE!!!!!!!!

[@svetakirko8427]

Best moment in games. Ever.

[@awdrifter3394]

BG3's villains show you how badass they are. Ketheric taking an axe to the chest and neck and casually walk it off.

[@guaranteedtopwn]

Y'all saying Solas is good: maybe you're thinking of a different game or you have a bunch of knowledge already, he is NOT compelling in Veilguard alone which is what this video is showing.

[@EveIndra]

Which sucks and makes the game even more fucked because he could've been SO good. They gutted his character and just made him simpy, what a damn waste.

[@theobell2002]

@@EveIndra What the hell are you talking about? "Simpy?" He's a man ridden with guilt.

[@canisinumbra]

@@EveIndra You clearly didn’t play it.

[@reysleepyhead6720]

BG3 characters feel like heroes from a fantasy book. Veilguard characters feel like watered down theater play of this book.

[@Xxsorafan]

I’ll be honest, I found the two gods more threatening than Orin and Gortash. They deserved a strong build up like Myrkul.

[@elissahe2377]

Honestly for me Elgar'nan and ketheric are on par whereas Ghilan'nain, Orin, and Raphael are just weaker villains (more forced)

[@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou]

i'll be honest thats a L take considering how much i hate EA and biofail >:)

[@ChristophelusPulps]

That goblin throwing a halberd straight through magical plate armor was impressive.

[@prometheus5405]

Raphael is too glorious to any of them 😂

[@Thagyr]

Megamind explained it best. You can easily be a villain, but to be a super one the importance is PRESENTATION! Raphael is practically a musical.

[@secakaizenart]

Spoken like a true super villain.

[@SerenSimpson-v1k]

In Elgar'nan's defence, the writing is pretty boring and one-dimensional, but i do think the VO gives a great performance.

[@JBrandonMercer123]

This is the first time I've ever seen anybody use True Strike. Neat!

[@pupper9474]

J.K. Simmons has such a commanding voice, especially when he pulls Omniman shit like that. "Try again."

[@UMCorian]

Ah yes, a video of Magnus Carlson playing Kasparov in Chess... interrupted occasionally by what seems to be two 12-year-olds playing tic-tac-toe

[@JoshuaVariell]

It's like night and day. A stark contrast you'll find more of if compare the BioWare of old with the one of today along with their past games and people who made them.

[@ViktoriyaZolotovolosyy]

4kids villain vs Disney villain

[@Jaytaxman]

The answer is music, pacing, and agency.

[@jabricht3937]

replayed BG3 for more than 5 times already. Skipped a lot of dialogues because I’m just more interested to try out new builds. But no matter what, I will always STRUGGLE to skip ketheric’s intro, orin’s first appearance (and her subsequent performances), and the final confrontation with Raphael at House of Hope. The performances are just too good.

[@jerondiovis6128]

Including Solas in this compilation actually hurts the general idea of the video. He's the only "bad guy" in DAV who says something meaningful and different from "MUAHAHAHA I'M EVIL".

[@merlinrecon7528]

Honestly, while I do agree the villain in veilguard is way worse that BG3, solas is NOT one of them. Like seriously almost every conversation with solas feels like a step in the right direction, especially the sarcasm. Why they sideline solas for 2 mustache twirling villains I will never understand

[@yungdre4500]

>You aren’t the future Aelia, you’re a murderer! Dude don’t you as the protagonist have to kill people?????

[@richardduska1558]

These comperasons are so brutal. It's like comparing a 3rd graders play to a Ring of the Nibelungens in the German national theater.

[@drebear2638]

those clowns from veilguard were so 'twirly mustache super villain' plotting in the dark with face barely off screen like "ILL GET YOU GADGET!"

[@bcjarl8745]

Shit, now I have to play BG3 again... thank you!

[@xavierhouston4650]

Drag Rage: Queefguard devs when they first announced Dreadwolf: “Hope, hehehehehe. Such a tease!”

[@theobell2002]

"Drag Rage: Queefguard" Wow, so creative. You come up with that all by yourself, little Timmy?

[@Milesgond]

that battle with Raphael was so epic. the music. the initial hopeless feeling when it seems impossible. and then overcoming the odds and beating him. so awesome

[@SkyleneEmber]

Baldur Gate's 3 got a lot of unique details and a true characters crafting involved in the making while DA Failguard was basically cartoon characters of toddlers-level trying to act like adults.

[@brazen_categories9755]

I love the certainty of flicking the music all the way up when Raphael began singing his soundtrack like “oh yeah, we boppin to this”

[@DLT-po6to]

Well in BG3 you can become the villain yourself. Which shows the massive freedom of choice a game like this should have. In DA you only have the choice to be nice, slightly less nice or nice with some sarcasm.

[@raisondetre7585]

Even the veilguard ending is just 20 min of yapping that took literally 4 people to convince solas what his doing is bad, like wth ....

[@canisinumbra]

Eh no? That is one possibility of ending

[@tomdreler6528]

Down came the Claw!

[@Crack58]

Ketheric thorm: 🗿🍷

[@SleepyJoin]

Ketheric is so bad ass

[@jakefairley6993]

Raphael is clearly inspired by the cartoony villains you would see in musical theater, and yet he's easier to take serious than anyone in Veilguard

[@Pickle_Maniac]

Elgar'nan is Nere! It's NERE! Got to steals his boots lol

[@ArchonSG1]

The Difference between BG3 and DA:V is that BG3 for the most part paid homage and stay true to its lore, (arguable since Larian chose a different path for its BG2's ending than most would have, my poor girl Viconia) and respected the events of the Times of Trouble. DA:V just pulled a Disney Starwars and went "Let the past die, kill it if you have to." Destroying all lore that came before, boiling everything down to, you know all that lore that you loved, Surprise!! The elves did it all.