Labour factionalism is overshadowing their campaign | Election 2024 | The New Statesman podcast

[@poneill65]

@8:25 When the "Israel Lobby" in question is AIPAC, it literally isn't an anti-semitic trope. AIPAC is an official lobby group, lobbying for policies in support of Israel. Jon Stewart's piece that she allegedly liked, was about AIPAC! Making fun of AIPAC is making fun of a recognized Israel lobby group, not a shady cabal of Jewish Machiavelli's

[@AH-te5gs]

Exactly, I'm embarrassed to hear such a hogwash claim here on what i thought was a reputable medium.

[@disasterarea9341]

100% agree, i'm jewish & anti-zionist and i came into the comments to say this too.

[@Wulfuswulferson]

Its not antisemitic to say there is an israel lobby, there are labour MPs paid by israel, a group called lablur friends of Israel, what is that if not a lobby?

[@jamieparry6420]

New Statesman saying Rosie Duffield had been treated appallingly, but someone being deselected for liking a clip by a well-known jewish comedian is an antisemitic embarrassment? Ridiculous.

[@jaisriram295]

But that wasn't the only issue with her there were numerous social media posts that were highlight

[@CharlieL292]

@@jaisriram295exactly

[@davepike7546]

@@jaisriram295 Not numerous and in the past. It's factionalism and it's undemocratic.

[@SlowhandGreg]

Corbyn ran a loose ship Starmer does not no loose cannons no midnight posts no retweets of complete crap and engage your brain before you do anything

[@MrBoboiscool]

@@jaisriram295 None of wich were antisemetic or in any way relevent. Its factional and pretty disgusting. People would be having a fit if corbyn did this to the right. Blair realised the party was a big tent and didnt pull this bullshit.

[@oldstatueface6317]

"Scheming jews" is an antisemitic trope. The many, publicly visible, professional groups who lobby on behalf of Israel are very real and highlighting their influence is a statement of fact, not a trope.

[@Thedarkknight2244]

AIPAC

[@Thedarkknight2244]

AlPAC

[@andybrice2711]

The “Israel Lobby” can be an antisemitic trope. But I think people should also be free to raise objections to the undue influence Israel sometimes appears to have on British politicians.

[@danielwebb8402]

How would you summarise or shortern your theory on Israel having undue influence on politicians?

[@lheureexquise140]

It is not an antisemitic trope. There is an Israel lobby. In Labour, you have several organisations which are Israel lobby groups. Luke Akehurst literally works for Israel.

[@freddymzungu]

Undue influence means total control

[@andybrice2711]

@@lheureexquise140 It can also be an antisemitic trope. But generally I agree with you. We can’t just dismiss arguments as dog-whistles when they also have reasonable interpretations.

[@andybrice2711]

@@danielwebb8402 I’m not necessarily making that argument. I’m just saying people should be allowed to make that argument. Though I think they’ve got a point. It does seem odd how timid politicians are about criticizing Israel.

[@alanhat5252]

8:47 Luke Akehurst, NEC member parachuted 250 miles, has article after article against him - try one in The National (respected Scottish newspaper) titled "Luke Akehurst: Labour pick 'extremist' Israel lobbyist for safe seat"...

[@MattBooth]

"The Israel Lobby" is not an antisemtitic trope. It's a verifiable lobby that exists in Westminster,.

[@Thedarkknight2244]

Labour friends of something (LFI)

[@Thedarkknight2244]

It’s called “labour friends of something” (LFI)

[@alanhat5252]

8:27 which is *_not_* an antisemitic trope! If nothing else because Israel is a country not a religion, an ethnicity or (to accurately fit the definition) a language.

[@daquidi]

there literally is an israel lobby in every western country. there are multiple. in germany it is called "zentralrat der juden" = central council of jews. in a very problematic way this lobby equates jews with people of israel as it lobbies on behalf of israel condemning any criticism of israel as antisemitic. even jewish heads of institutions have been forced to step down, because they voiced public criticism of israel. in politics there are also party groups "friends of israel" lobbying on behalf of the israel government.

[@alanhat5252]

5:00 the Labour Party is & has been since its foundation a _left-wing party,_ it is _not_ Starmer's place to drag the Party to the right of Thatcher!

[@susanneperez5313]

Why on earth is criticising the israel lobby anti-semetic??

[@haaaaaay]

It’s total insanity

[@alanhat5252]

because Israel says it is & we cannot contradict Israel ever about anything!

[@keithparker1346]

Obviously anti-Semitic 😂​@@rinkydinkfretboard8737

[@beatricecowley4307]

Corbin and Abbot were elected to the role of MP. They did not interview with Starmar. An MP goes because they brought the party into disrepute. To sick to carry on. Or get voted out at local election. Not got rid of to further the interests of the party leader. Regardless of of weather you are supporter of Abbot or Corbin. Left wing, right wing or occupy the middles ground. We need to very concerned about how the labour see the people and the treatment we can expect should they be elected. I like Corbin not so much Abbot. How is it domcratic to oust an MP without allowing the people who voted for them anything to say about it?

[@alanhat5252]

the people who elected Corbyn within the Labour party _were_ given a vote, they chose to keep him!

[@Frithogar]

The UK is getting more like the US every day. Presidential purging and political polarisation on uppers!

[@abraxis20]

tTe electorate are polarised. the parties are mostly part of the same old so-called neoliberal consensus.

[@MkVenner1975]

Momentum didn’t attempt the exact same thing under Corbyn?

[@freddymzungu]

They should face prosecution. A political generation of utterly corrupt self serving hypocrites.

[@verzeda]

Imagine not applying that exact same logic to literally every politician on planet earth that has ever existed since human beings allowed themselves to be led by other human beings

[@alanhat5252]

​@@verzedanow imagine applying it...

[@verzeda]

@@alanhat5252 that was my point, I guess sarcasm is hard to convey via text

[@ufoc700]

It is antisemitic to criticise starmer

[@BillSilver-kg8hs]

A Labour civil war, 5 weeks from a GE, because Starmer, Murdoch's chosen preference for Labour leader is trying to keep that lot happy. "Don't worry Mr Murdoch, Sir. I won't let Labour return to it's roots. That's a promise".

[@MkVenner1975]

If you think Murdoch likes Starmer I’ve got some magic beans to sell you. Absolutely hilarious, Murdoch hates Starmer for prosecuting his newspaper editors.

[@BillSilver-kg8hs]

@@MkVenner1975 Point taken.

[@kitcat4512]

He is committed to doing what he must for Davos, his favourite place, Blair is there.

[@jopearson6321]

Regardless of your politics, referring to a political 'lobby' for a nation is not colorably racist (i.e. antisemitic). This is inherently true because Israel is a nation state, not an ethnicity. It is especially true in context because AIPAC exists. Now this does not mean that you are prevented from pointing to other things from Abbot as problematic. But what you can't do is use this particular instance as your red-line because if you do so, even if you interpreted it as a dog-whistle, you are signalling that any discussion of the topic of political influence from this particular nation state is taboo. That is ridiculous and untenable. I don't know how many times it needs to be pointed out, but criticising Israel is not inherently anti-Semitic. If you genuinely hold that it is, you have an ethno-nationalist perspective. I hope I don't need to explain why that is bad.

[@ER1CwC]

I haven’t been following her views on Israel, but does she deny its right to exist? I think it’s pretty clear that that is in most cases anti-Semitic, for how exactly is it going to disappear peacefully? Where are all the Israelis going to go, and how?

[@jopearson6321]

@@ER1CwC These are good questions, and likely would be valid reasons to suspend her when taken as a whole. But I am talking specifically to the circumstance (if true) that this suspension is centered on referring to the "Israel lobby". I don't think that reality, if true, is defensible.

[@ER1CwC]

@@jopearson6321 Maybe this is a case where it does depend on the context of the speaker, that is, on what the speaker has previously said. The same comment can be innocuous when one person says it, and incriminating when it comes from another.

[@jopearson6321]

@@ER1CwC I fundamentally disagree. My point is precisely that you cannot do this because it polices or stigmatises routine/acceptable behaviour and discourse extrinsic to that particular action. Its in the same way that you cannot arrest and charge someone for the crime of "walking out of their house" merely because you think they committed other crimes. That would imply that others can be arrested for same. If you're going to go after someone, it has to be for something actually unacceptable, not under the pretext or guise of other things. As it stands it looks like Labour really are holding that talking about the "Israel Lobby" is unacceptable, see also their barring of Faiza Shaheen as a candidate.

[@ER1CwC]

@@jopearson6321 I see what you mean. I think that parties in general have ceded too much control to the grassroots, but I guess my general thought is that they should either do it or don’t do it. Problem here is that they aren’t being clear and decisive.

[@l33jcm]

I bloody well hope so. Being a "wide church" is all well and good, but when it risks losing at elections, then maybe it's not so good. I'd rather have Labour win elections and not win arguments!

[@elliotwilliams7421]

So you don't care if they are extreme right, just as long as labour are in power?

[@alanhat5252]

This definition of Treason seems to apply: "The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery"

[@l33jcm]

@elliotwilliams7421 FFS, you must be one of those who like to win arguments, then. What I care about right now is being able to afford to live, that my children have some kind of future that's better than what's on offer right now, that we have a functioning health service, that we can fight the climate crisis, that we go back to being a compassionate and welcoming country, that we stop our money being stolen, that crazy politics becomes less crazy. That's what I care about right now! Is that clear enough for you?

[@DominicHill]

"No, it's still raining." 😂

[@Halbumen]

just a reminder that in 2017 the NS and Cunliffe in particular were up IN ARMS, pearls held in trembling white fingers, vomiting with anxiety, about the naked stalinism of a labour proposal to allow deselections to be democratically controlled, lest the talent of angela smith be lost from parliament or something

[@raymondcandys869]

Excellent broadcast, its so refreshing to hear two people that really understand what they're talking about for a change!

[@johneast4235]

Great chat. Thank you :)

[@mdog111]

Faiza Shaeen and Lloyd Russell-Moyle barred from standing in the forthcominge election because of their vocal support for Palestine. Luke Akehurst parachuted into Durham North despite being a lobbyist for the state of Israel. Starmer married to a woman with extensive business links to Israel. Labour's newest MP Damien Egan married to a former IDF soldier. Starmer's head of social media campaigning Assaf Kaplan a former IDF soldier. Anyone seeing a pattern here?

[@gj7392]

Abbot performed woefully in all of her roles. A number of her interviews were complete car crashes. She is out of her depth.

[@EdwardLindon]

And yet she has been elected and reelected every time since 1987, and she is a figure of some renown on the international stage. All of which makes your assessment seem quite subjective.

[@JelMain]

Well, all we know after a week is that Labour HASN'T resolved the issues plaguing it over the last 50 years, and the Tories remain away with the fairies. Neither are fit for government, so the two-party system has failed and the steady-as-she-goes electoral system is going to continue to sink the ship.

[@juanitoingles9853]

'Twas ever going to be thus. The hard left represents Sunak's best chance! Bizarre!

[@garywilson6047]

A vote for the tories is a vote lost for reform.

[@peteratkin3788]

A mess made by the media

[@karlyoung6289]

The gaping hole in the public finances wouldn´t be a problem if Stamer had the stones to tax the rich!

[@gj7392]

Elected in a safe Labor seat in a two party system. Equally of some renown because she is an MP with occasional shadow cabinet roles in a G7 country. Subjective? I’d rather focus on the repeated lack of numeracy and incoherence shown in interviews and poor leadership on key policy initiatives. Needs to go and make way for centre left candidates in order to appeal to the voters.

[@stevenwilliamson6236]

Even better would be for them to offer Abbott the spot and for her to turn them down.

[@kerrynewnham8946]

The independent journalist from Ireland , I can’t remember her name, who was on the BBC politics live this week was asked essentially isn’t this something that all leaders do , this sort of get rid of the opponents and people that disagree with him and she said that, whilst there was some of it going on in Corbyn, Keir Starmer has taken it to another level... so I don’t think it’s right to try and suggest it’s Politics, shrug your shoulders et cetera. , Let’s be honest Keir Starmer is highly inexperienced as is Rishi sunak and we are paying the price for leaders who haven’t even developed into they actually are coming into politics And positions of leadership and just trying to pursue power at all cost.

[@martincheeseman5809]

Come on kier why are youpurging the hard left we need all left to go on and win the next elections

[@jezlawrence720]

I'm glad it's not just me who sees the parrallel with Johnson's Brexit whip shenanigans. Red Vs blue is not the only choice.

[@anthonybrown4874]

D Abbott is an offputting figure for centre leaning voters and you can only assume K Starmer wishes she wouldnt stand however the left of the party exists and awaits their opportunity post election to hold sway on policy areas. At the moment Labour appear more unified and controlled pre election post election both parties will have a period of turmoil as the factions compete for the soul of their respective parties. You can only hope that whats left standing appeals to the British public that will cast their votes.

[@ER1CwC]

Putting whether his actions were ‘right,’ Starmer was just being ruthlessly pragmatic, just like Blair when he dumped Peter Mandleson from cabinet prior to 2001. Again, putting aside right and wrong, the left still doesn’t realize (or acknowledge) just how deeply politically toxic anyone attached to Corbyn is. Apparently, if you replace Starmer with Corbyn in polling questions, the race becomes a dead heat _immediately._

[@andybrice2711]

Corbyn supporters still can’t seem to understand or accept this. Yes, there was a concerted media campaign to smear and destroy him. But also, his ideas are just deeply unpopular with the British public. We’re not a nation of Marxists.

[@mariamorgan8447]

YES

[@songscoops4205]

He's still going to occupy No 10...so what's all the fuss about..

[@TimesFM4532]

Mean what she write was completely unacceptable

[@albertbrammer9263]

Purging those aligned with Corbyn. Starmer should just be strong and say Abbott is out. These people complaining like Abbott are only helping the Tories.

[@albertbrammer9263]

Probably Mandelson, as he works for Times Radio.

[@SplashTasty]

@@albertbrammer9263 Ohhhh you dont say. Rather interesting.

[@ajaysidhu471]

Stalin

[@two20john]

So true, who needs people who have won seats for Labour over the last 78 years, it's political correctness gone mad.

[@alanhat5252]

Labour is supposedly a _democratic_ party & Corbyn was elected & re-elected repeatedly by the Membership until Central Office sabotaged the 2019 General Election & he stood down. It's all in the Forde Report if you care to look it up & is in a shortened video format in Aljazeera's "The Labour files" if you haven't got time.

[@johnmoorefilm]

Podcast hosts complaining about how hard this election is for them, how exhausting they find it all…I remember my dad saying that when he came home from the steel mill….before he was laid off. New Labour lives…🤢

[@davidalderson7761]

The view from the “poor bloody punter” of the Labour Party is terrible. It only do we have an awful election process of two parties cola and pepsi but we have now got the only news is about infighting in labour once again. The opportunity wasted and the people of the UK slowly falling into losing interest all together in the political process. I don’t see me voting but maybe I spoil the vote but then the extremists get the chance to broker power. Labour having a putsch now the mind boggles.

[@christopherwaller2798]

Of course, we can expect the hand picked members of the Starmtrooper Parachute Regiment to cause problems. Just because they've been loyal to this point doesn't mean they can't get involved in the usual scandals that befall MPs. Even if some of them did wipe their own social media accounts and think people wouldn't notice.

[@mrcrisps3376]

Way to ask a question after the answer has been around for half a decade. “News”😂

[@Halbumen]

hannah barnes seems to be the sole voice of non derangement in these recent abbott discussionse. cunliffe is an embarrassment throughout this

[@Halbumen]

rosie duffield stan so scratch that lmao

[@jamienash5263]

Luke akehurst shouldn't be a candidate

[@stevenwilliamson6236]

There's nothing ridiculous about it. It's a further indication of who Starmer is. This is as bad as the genocide.

[@williama-d6]

isn't it the other way round? shouldn't we be saving with the conservatives because labour likes the welfare system and stuff like that?

[@Halbumen]

very hard for these NS sorts to grapple with the reality of who starmer and his crew have been this whole time while never being able to actually admit it out loud. makes for quite a funny segment in an awkward kind of way

[@rustynail1194]

He did from the start. Bit odd this is news now.

[@kerrynewnham8946]

I think you’re being unfair to the greens the greens have a broad spectrum of views. On the economy and so on , yes they are left for social justice, they are for investing in public services (they can’t understand the Labour Party refusing to tax the rich to raise the money that we will need to see redistributed and ploughed into public services to make things better for most people in the country) but they’re also green so they do share some conservative concerns about building in certain places, about conserving their natural environment in certain places, so that is crossover with the Conservatives which of course they’re going to emphasise! That doesn’t mean they’re being two-faced, they just have various shades to themselves but are fundamentally economically left-wing

[@Thebearmre7]

Good

[@kerrynewnham8946]

If you really are sympathetic to KS behaviour here then you haven’t really got much in the way of decency just to the rest of the party or decency in politics generally. The idea that Keir Starmer , destined through the collapse of the Conservatives to inherit a majority that he’s already heavily rigged , is in a really vulnerable position that he just can’t help it be horrible and nasty, honestly?

[@ArtSmart91]

Isreal lobby is not an antisemitic trope, honestly Racheal is just delusional. She’s truly just a below average journalist even by the new statements standard!

[@roypowell3450]

More desperate every day!

[@alanhat5252]

6:10 you could go back to the source where she's trying to clarify the terminology (in the sort of cack-handed way you would expect in a "1st draft") between "racism" & other forms of "prejudice". Copied verbatim from the Observer Letters page: Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships. Diane Abbott

[@andybrice2711]

It’s such a pointlessly divisive and daft argument. _“Jewish people…were not required to sit at the back of the bus.”_ Now I’m no historian, but I seem to recall there were some other ways in which Jewish people were persecuted during the 20th century.

[@EdwardLindon]

​@@andybrice2711And yet when David Baddiel came out and made an equivalent argument about Jews, he was feted and given a book tour and a TV programme.

[@dh1380]

I mean, a lot of people including Labour voters think she is an idiot. I dont know why, necessarily, but they do. I don't really have an opinion either way. Corbyn though, as unelectable as he always has been, could be an asset to Labour. But he's made the choice to go it alone. So i guess everybody is welcone to draw ther own conclusions about what is going on. I'd hardly call Corbyn deciding to run as an independent aa part of a purge, though.

[@storm21410]

I think if Corbyn were to stand for Labour, every right wing journalist would have their knives out on his stance on defence, NATO and Ukraine It's definitely not worth the risk

[@SlowhandGreg]

This is a sample from Abbot Labour MP Diane Abbott has said the UK and US are responsible for any breakout of conflict in Ukraine Diane Abbott: Keir Starmer's 'deranged' Nato support risks 'catastrophe' in Ukraine Even as a Labour supporter and member if she were my MP I couldn't vote for her and why I have no time for Corbyn and his peacenik lackeys, my Father came here during the war via a Russian Gulag he is Polish and fought in the free Polish army.

[@Eltener123]

It's not the fact he decided to run as an independent, it's the fact he only did that because he was explicitly banned from running for Labour candidate. The national party then picked a "short list" of 2 possible local candidates for the local party to vote on, one of whom mysteriously stepped down. I personally won't vote for a party that sends diktats out to local branches denying them the opportunity to even pick their own candidates. For all their talk of being pro-democracy, these are their actions and they suggest the exact opposite.

[@alanhat5252]

​@@Eltener123that remaining candidate being, in his day job, the CEO of a private healthcare company

[@MrTzimisces]

What a load of crap is on this video. You will literally do anything to help Starmer's right wing leadership of an increasingly right wing Labour party

[@Titus9508]

Well, you only need look at the statistics.

[@lheureexquise140]

The grown-ups are back in charge of Labour!!!!!!

[@roadend78]

The game is rigged the illusion of democracy in the UK ?

[@ArtSmart91]

Is labour purging the left of the party? Honestly the new statesman is just satire at this point lol wtf

[@martincheeseman5809]

Come on kier we need all of the left to win the next general election!

[@marcusdosh408]

Tories are right wing not Labour is right wing.... they may as well be one party

[@StratsRUs]

These lot are concern-trolling.

[@DeFi-Macrodosing]

Unpopular opinion: Let's not play games, we all know: Diane Abbott has to go. She shouldn't ever been there in the first place.

[@EdwardLindon]

Ridiculous.

[@rw31415]

What a pointless episode. Who cares? Don't you mean extreme left?

[@dogzero1]

Vote Conservatives for more of this: 1. Highest energy bills in Europe. 2. Highest taxes in 70 years. 3. Highest interest rates since 2008. 4. Highest train fares in Europe. 5. Longest waiting lists in NHS history. 6. Raw sewage pumped into rivers and our coastline. 7. Lowest corporate taxes in 50 years. 8. Lowest State Pension in Europe. 9. Highest Immigration both legal and illegal ever. 10. Destroyed the NHS dentist service. 11. Brought the Brexit vote and ruined the country. 12. One failed Prime Minister after another. 13. Worlds shortest in post Prime Minister. 14. More corrupt MP's than any other party in parliament. 15. Europes longest Austerity for the lower paid. 16. Highest Council Tax rates in the World. 17. Reduced our Armed Forces more than any other G8 country. 18. Highest number of MP's that have been arrested for sexual offences. 19. Highest number of MP's that have been sacked for corruption and Fraudulent acts. 20. Voted to allow Bankers to have unlimited bonus's even though the bankers caused the crash of 2008. 21. More libraries closed due to council cuts than any other modern country. 22. Ruined and destroyed the Train services by giving private companies tax payers money as subsidies. 23. Voted against Labours creation of the minimum wage. 24. Water companies failing to produce safe drinking water due to profits going to the rich shareholders normally in other countries. 25. Trebled the National Debt whilst giving Tax cuts to the rich. 26. Promised £350 million per week after Brexit for our NHS. 27. Promised 40 brand new hospitals of which one was built. 28. Had a Liar and a Criminal Prime Minister, which is a G8 first. 29. And a Prime minister who crashed the economy and increased the mortgages of hundreds of thousands of people but was in office less time than a Lettuce is on a supermarket shelf. 30. And finally, wasted billions of Tax payers money on crony PPE contracts for their friends and other Tory donators many of which made millions and invest it in tax havens. God bless the Tories. The most evil and corrupt party this country has ever seen.

[@abzanali7779]

I can agree with you but - What is the alternative?

[@fantasypvp]

and vote labour for the same but worse 🤣

[@marystringfellow8185]

I'm voting conservative