LAiV Harmony vs MSB Discrete - David vs Goliath

[@gloriab7801]

That Gilad H. recording, is superb, and whoever miked the VV, on that night, deserves some sort of award. I've recently acquired HQPlayer & am slowly driving myself mad trying to decide which filter I like best. FWIW, I've been using the track "No Easy Way Down" from 'Dusty in Memphis', and the sense of space around her voice, as my reference track.

[@norbsi]

Regarding the Laiv USB issue, you could look also for a StackAudio Link II as a transport. It is also a USB reclocker and has a switch on the back where you can switch off USB power (after it locks to the DAC). So you dont have USB power leakage from the Link II into the LAIV.

[@MissPalorte]

Your comments about the MSB more pertain to the quality of the DAC processing but even more so of the clocks… Remember I2S is a synchronous format!! The clock of the source is the boss!! Unless you use a tremendous quality DDC with great quality OXCO clocks. This is why you hear the LAiV sound signature with a much higher 0:03 player like the Aurender!

[@victorvivaudou132]

Thank you for NOT doing a “for the money” review. Some of us want to know the limit of the scalability of performance if surrounded by highly resolving setup. I look forward to the Red matched with the MSB system review. The Red is on my shortlist.

[@joshuabrain9751]

Thanks for the impressions. Will be very interested to hear your thoughts on the Red.

[@swinkles]

Coincidentally my setup for the past several months has been the HoloAudio Red into the Laiv Harmony. I'm intrigued that you preferred the USB connection to I2S, if I understand correctly. Hans Beekhuyzen said he disliked the I2S performance on the Laiv unless the setting was changed to allow the streamer to serve as the clock instead of native. That's how I have mine set up because of his recommendation. While I like the Red, I'm probably going to get a Bluesound Node as soon as they're ready with the Dirac Live functionality. The way I figure it, even if the Node loses a tiny bit of ground to the Red in terms of performance, the impact of Dirac would more than compensate. But we'll see. I tried the room correction feature on the Eversolo DMP-A8 when I had it earlier this year. Manual process using a Umik 1 and REW software. I wasnt pleased with the result. But I've heard good things about Dirac so we'll see how their automated process works.

[@jamesharding393]

I agree it would make me very sad but very hopeful that I don't have to add an additional MSB to my secondary system. The LAiV is performing well but knowing it's sensitivity has me in my feelings about cable upgrades. Power, USB, etc... Maybe a fancy power conditioner as well. Honestly for the setup I have and the large room w/vaulted ceilings, the LAiV in its current configuration will do just fine. Let's see what else we can squeeze out of it during our next listening session.

[@is3commander]

Thank you for the video! On my system (I have S5 and RED). The difference from Mac >> USB S5 and then streaming from all outputs on RED is barely noticeable. I’m interested how that will go for you.

[@User_not_found_403]

interesting. I had the same gear - Holo Red, LAiV Harmony DAC and also the Audial S5b. Curious how you found the Harmony and Audial S5. In my setup they were very close, but I think the Audial edged it out.

[@everydayaudiophile5409]

I will be talking about them soon when I do a formal S5b review! (along with all the other Audial gear)

[@User_not_found_403]

@@everydayaudiophile5409 Nice! Looking forward to it. Not many know about the boutique companies like Audial.

[@StanThePigeon]

Great review! I subscribed! Wonder how it would compare with the MSB with one power supply. Was the Hifi rose the RS130 using optical Ethernet? Looking forward to all the upcoming videos!

[@philippeb4972]

Great review, thank you. I have an MSB Discrete and keep thinking of selling it and getting something less expensive and have $ left over for something else.

[@jiyadas]

I have the MSB Premier and the Aurender N20 connected via XLR AES/EBU and the 'Word Sync Out' of the MSB into the 'Clock In' of the N20. This is superior to the MSB Pro USB/ISL connection, which I only use for DSD. I had the MSB Discrete before, and it was connected the same way. If you think the USB is better, this takes it to another level with both units synced. The N20 has a fantastic clock inside, but it's only for the spdif outputs. I have had many DACs before but there is no denying the subtle cues the MSB can flesh out which is missing in others and the N20 with its SPDIF outputs is absolutely insane when clocked with MSB. I'm using Transparent Reference digital cables.

[@dennisreese9974]

Received my HarmonyHP2 today.Nice looking pair. Before break in, I'm not a reviewer, but I certainly enjoyed Neil singing Comes a time! I will give it a pre thumbs up!

[@xeniavader]

this is great!!! very helpful info. I also have a LAIV DAC and so far really like it. Sort of in between my TT2 and Lampizator. The Lampi GA is by far the best, not surprising. Need more time with with other two (they are so different sounding!) I'm feeding the system off a mac mini via USB. Honestly, it's a pretty good source. I added a gustard DDC so I can use i2s. So far the DDC isn't making that much of a difference. Good stuff !!!

[@freakin13guy]

@everyday audiophile, will you be dropping a video soon on your Holo Red impressions?

[@middleearthltd]

You should try a Holo DAC If you watch iiWi and Hans and their reviews, those considering a new DAC, might decide to go in a different direction from the LAiV Harmony

[@roberts3889]

There is nothing remotely negative about the Harmony in the iWi review, and Hans is just plain wrong in his assessment as evidenced by the fact that he's the ONLY reviewer (professional or otherwise) that I've seen make "meh" comments. So what exactly are you trying to say?

[@middleearthltd]

I am merely saying for $2.7k those two reviews are worth checking out Simple due diligence no more or less In his last video of the Topping 1 Bit iiWi said he underestimated the LAiV Harmony in his review of it You apparently missed what was said which was not negative but iiWi knew exactly what he said Hans could also be right in his assessment as different people will come to different conclusions These are subjective impressions so there is no right or wrong If you bought one then you and most people will only want to hear that it punches 10x above $2.7k

[@roberts3889]

@@middleearthltd thanks for clarifying, but I didn't see anything in the iWi review that would point away from the Harmony, which is what you implied. I generally respect Hans, but he seems to be the only one (of many) to offer a negative perspective on the Harmony. That makes him the outlier and statistically speaking, not to be considered. I have no pre- or mis- conceptions that the LAiV is the "best", even "for the money", but I think one would have to spend in the 5 digits for a SIGNIFICANT improvement. For example, I compared a Chord TT2/M Scaler combo in my system against the Harmony and in blind testing, my wife could not distinguish between them (nor could I, but I knew which was playing). I've owned two different MSB DACs in the past, and I would place either one above the Harmony, but in today's market, we're looking at $15K for entry.

[@quant2011]

One question. If someone has MBL speakers with already giant soundstage, will LAIV make it even larger? 🤔

[@alphaniner3770]

Sensitive equipment is (only) great for people that like to tinker all the time. Curious what you will think of the Red - heard someone that actually sells them say that it actually isn't that great.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

I prefer the new Fosi DAC over the Laiv, hell...i prefered the Fosi over a 6k T+A DAC. Imo the biggest waste of money in audio are DACs, there's a million of them and price doesn't always indicate performance

[@zubidoc]

Thanks a lot for the unconventional comparison. Very educating. This property that you've mentioned several times as "'sensitive to the source'' is often called ''transparency'' (or true to the source). If a piece of gear sounds the same with different sources, it usually means that it has its own voice, or in other words, it colors the sound and it might be a good thing for some or a bad thing for others (depends on what you are looking for :) Looking forward to your next review of the Holo Audio Red. It would be great if you could compare it to more expensive streamers, like Aurender, HiFi Rose etc. Thanks in advance.

[@DigitalGrease]

Excellent comparison and useful information! In my setup, I'm using a PC into a Singxer SU-6 DDC into the Harmony with I2S (Audioquest Carbon HDMI). I found that plugging the Harmony into a power filter also improved the sound. Now, power quality varies greatly between systems and locations, but in my situation, the power filter bumped it up a very nice level! Before people ask, this power filter is my own design, ultra low impedance filter. Not commercially available. I have been reluctant to get into selling them because the power situation is so variable from situation to situation. Just putting it out there.

[@riccitone]

This is great, in that source to Dac can really make or break things. And then which output proves superior, and then how the Dac performs depending on cables, implementation, etc. I’m currently stuck on AES being the best for my setup. Love it, but would like to have the chance for an upward path (eventually). But the way, Volumio products are really squeezing that performance/price delta as well. Devil’s definitely in the details 🙏🏼

[@yellow_noise3]

On aliexpress there is MSB clone available. Exactly MSB Platinum clone. For 1.7k plus shipping. Interresting, how it sound vs original and Laiv

[@wim1983]

Audiophile has great imaginations, cause them to spend millions of dollar. They never feel enough, really...

[@davestevens4193]

Shocking. A $16k DAC sounds better than $3k DAC.

[@philipw7058]

Not necessarily it depends on system setup and electronics connected,one thing I can tell you as a audio engineer money is meaningless after a certain price point,ridiculous money for these audio products are for uneducated fools that don’t care about what they spend

[@marioagrimi2315]

Is it really necessary to drink in every one of your videos, honestly it's quite irritating, sorry

[@lrdmagoo4754]

Yes, very. I was interested in the video, but that killed it for me.

[@everydayaudiophile5409]

Hey, I appreciate the comment. It's a very fair opinion, one that you aren't alone in. Since this is a personal project and not a source of income, this is how I've decided to make my videos.

[@marioagrimi2315]

@@everydayaudiophile5409 I think with better prensentation your videos would get more views but that is just my opinion. bye