Last of Us 2's Story Makes No Sense

[@TheAlmightyLoli]

Feel like I didn't go into detail enough about why the Firefly plan for Ellie wouldn't have worked. The idea in the original game was that they would use samples of the mutated fungus growing in Ellie's brain to make a vaccine. Assuming the idea is to essentially infect people with her specific strain of Cordyceps in order to prevent the spread of the zombie one. Problem is that's not how fungus works, or vaccines. Currently there are zero vaccines for fungal infections, and it's generally agreed upon that it's kind of impossible to make one. You can *cure* fungal infections, but you can't *vaccinate* for them. Because it's not like a virus where your body can build up antibodies against it, and prevent infection. Fungus is essentially a parasite, so it's much more difficult for your body to force it out. It's like saying you can make a vaccine for a tapeworm, it's just not how it works. Obviously you can chalk that up to Magical Realism all you want, but I always saw it as a sign that they were going to kill Ellie for something that wouldn't work. Which might be why 2 retcons the language and refers to the project as *curing* Cordyceps. Because instead of addressing how desperate the Fireflies became by the end of the game, they double down on the "Joel fucks over mankind for selfish reasons" interpretation.

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

Or they could have just done a brain biopsy to get a sample of the mutated fungus and surrounding tissue _without_ killing Ellie. The Fireflies were always a bunch of overzealous retards.

[@Andrew-fq7pu]

I think TLOU was a fantastic story and TLOU2 is absolute, clumsy, incompetent, contrived trainwreck of a story. Having said that, I think people are taking things at face value & seeing faults that I don't see, namely Joel & Ellie being demonised & Jerry & Abby being lionised. Firstly, I don't get a sense we're supposed to feel bad as Ellie. I also think that's because Neil forgot he was writing a script for game, not a HBO series. I never felt bad as Ellie & not just because of the ludo narrative dissonance either. I never felt bad about any one of Abby's friends that Ellie killed, because all of them died while trying to kill her. Except Nora, who was calling for guards to do it, but Ellie killed her the moment they went into the spores, which was also her only out. Self defence. Owen died trying to take her gun. Mel was killed with her own knife after trying to jam it into Ellie's neck. Even bargain bin Rose Tico died because she tried to stab Ellie. I only thought the game was trying to make us see that the violence was making Ellie feel bad, to establish she's not a cold blooded psychopath. Otherwise they could've just had her kill them when they were defenceless. I also think we're meant to see that some of Abby's crew are affected by Jackson, including her. They just try & fake their way through it. Mel's avoiding her & Abby 's uncomfortable & defensive about that, which is why Manny intervenes. When they talk, Mel tries to bluff her way through by saying she thinks Joel deserved worse, but then says she wishes she didn't have to see it. Which is it? Owen & Abby's sex scene is initiated by her violent reaction to him reminding her she's a twisted sadist. Mel makes her cry by telling her she's just a piece of shit right after she saves the kids. She's the sadistic psychopath Isaac's favourite Scar killer, but then she gets him killed, after attempting suicide by Isaac, just to save 2 Scar kids she's known for less than 48 hours. I took that as them trying to show us she's desperately trying to act righteous to repair her self image after Jackson. It just made her seem shallow, sad & desperate to me. Nothing you do as Abby changes my perception of her as a sadistic psychopath. I never thought all evil people are one dimensional monsters, or that good people can't be driven to cruelty. Jerry being kind to animals & Abby never changed my perception of him as a delusional psychopath from the first game either. It just showed that's not all he is. It was no different to me than watching a movie about Ted Bundy being nice to people, his girlfriend and her kid, in between murders. The game never felt to me like it was trying to walk back how delusional he was in the first game and that we was prepared to murder an innocent 14 year old girl to further his 20 year fantasy of eventually becoming the saviour of humanity. The first game portrayed the Flies as incompetent, homicidal lunatics. They're like the PFJ from Life of Brian with nail bombs & automatic weapons. Ellie idolises them because of Marlene, but everything you find out about them in game just makes them worse and worse, culminating with Jerry. You know from the first game he hasn't got a clue of what he's doing with Ellie. It's just desperate speculation. You know from the recorders that they've lost their scientists, either to accident, FEDRA or simple despair. You know what Jerry tells Marlene about reverse engineering a cure from Ellie's fungus is nonsense because of (common sense & basic biology) what he says about her tests in the surgeon's recorder. We also know from Marlene's recorders that he ordered her to murder Joel, she's had enough of these people and from her journal she suspects they may turn on her. They're comically useless and awful people. They're a cult of deluded zealots. If you just accept what you see & what Jerry says at face value without any context from the first game, you may think they're making him seem a hero, but I never felt that. I think Jerry is worse than David and for me his story in TLOU2 doubles down on that. He fantasises about himself as a hero, but after 20 years of constant failure and only a few hours with the only immune person they've ever found, he's determined to immediately kill her as an experiment. His justification to Marlene for doing it is that if he succeeds, it'll make him feel better about all the horrific things he's done. Same with Joel. I've heard people say they're trying to show Joel was the villain, but I don't get that either. The only evidence anyone has that Jerry could have created a cure is Jerry saying he could. Jerry's story contradicts itself in both games. None of the Flies can explain how & claim he's the only person left who could. Believing that is ridiculous. FEDRA are far better equipped and resourced than the PFJ imbeciles. Believing Jerry could make a cure is like believing Reg /Loretta could have babies, let alone him being the last person who could. In TLOU2, he's not even old enough to have been a surgeon at Outbreak. After the leaks, I thought Neil would've shown Joel doing terrible things in flashbacks to innocent people to make us more sympathetic to Abby, but Joel is portrayed as a hero in this game. He's incredibly gentle with Ellie's hostility. He risks his own life to save Abby. At the very end, he tells Ellie he'd save her again without hesitation and that's the last word in the game. This was a vehicle to replace Joel & Ellie with Abby & Lev, by cruelly & sadistically murdering one and physically & mentally breaking the other, but I don't think it was attempting to demonise Joel or Ellie or lionise Jerry or Abby. Quite the opposite, for me, though on the surface I can see why some would think so. They certainly gave Abby's gameplay more variety, set pieces and weapons than Ellie's joyless slog with the incessantly irritating Dina. I think at the end, we're supposed to see them both as broken & desolate by the cycle of violence & conclude "see, violence is just wrong, kids". It's just so incompetently told, sadistically indulgent & unsatisfying it falls flat and just feels like a massive waste of time.

[@orbitalpunch4711]

For some reason people who love and defend TLOU2 completely forget the fireflies doctors were a joke. They tried and failed in their effort to create a vaccine. Ellie’s death would have been for nothing. Joel’s action was justifiable and yet they let Niel brainwash them to thinking Joel deserves to be brutally murdered by the daughter of a sinister no name NPC surgeon

[@LennartzHelma]

I've said this for years. Even if we give them a magical vaccine, how are they going to reproduce it? How are they going to logistically support getting it into the hands of people? Does anyone really expect that a terrorist group like their's isn't going to weaponize it and use it to force their agenda on the whole country? The entire organization is literally falling apart at the start of TLOU and heading to Salt Lake City to prevent complete collapse. The idea that they have the resources to devote to mass-producing a "vaccine" or "cure" is absurd. NCBI did an article that touched on just how difficult it is to produce one. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5518734/ "Vaccine manufacture is one of the most challenging industries. Even the most basic manufacturing steps necessary to produce vaccines in a manner that is safe, effective, and consistent over the life cycle of a vaccine are difficult to execute [7]. Outcomes can vary widely due to the nearly infinite combinations of biological variability in basic starting materials, the microorganism itself, the environmental condition of the microbial culture, the knowledge and experience of the manufacturing technician, and the steps involved in the purification processes. To add to the complexity, the methods used to analyze the biological processes and antigens resulting from vaccine production often have high inherent variability." Retconning it into a "cure" is just pouring gas on the fire to how ridiculous they sound as now they're implying that they can magically turn the Infected back into regular people. Just have those fungal stalks fall off the body, free the trapped mind that's been isolated for years/decades and they'll be good as new! Just ignore all the physical blight their bodies have had to endure after being infected and the repurposed organs that now can't function properly; the rotting bodies are just an aesthetic. You don't cure fungal infections, you have to treat it until it's removed from the system. You aren't going to find a treatment for fungal infection by 'killing the host to extricate the parasite". The surgeon himself has no idea what to do and only states "We must find a way to replicate this under laboratory conditions." They need to find out what the driving force is behind her body keeping the infection at bay. That's not going to happen if the subject is fucking dead. The only thing for sure is that nobody knows why Ellie's Cordyceps infection is benign. It could be a specific enzyme in her body that is being produced that allows the body to keep the infection from spreading any further. This particular explanation would fit in line with why her initial wound doesn't heal properly, why the blood cultures that were taken out of her body start to rapidly grow normal Cordyceps fungi, and why the spread was stopped at the blood-brain barrier. Whatever the reason is, we all should be aware and know for a fact that the Fireflys were the worst possible people to give Ellie to. Joel did nothing wrong. Joel is a hero.

[@orbitalpunch4711]

Helma Lennartz You hit the head on the nail mate. 🙃

[@MalaysianChopsticks]

Fextralife’s review at the end said that this is the first time during a livestream that people cheered every time Abby dies in his playthrough. That’s pretty funny

[@ALJ9000]

I love democracy.

[@jamesverner9132]

Link to the play through please.

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

The guitar ending could have been fixed, if Ellie put the guitar down took a deep breath, picked the guitar back up in a reversed grip and began practising simpel cords. It would indicate Ellie had decided to change, that there was some kind of hope, but that there was a long hard road ahead.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

At least that'd be slightly better. It would still be a shit ending, but at least it would have been slightly mended.

[@buggyyuji851]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 yep

[@alvinyakitori8720]

You can't practice basic chords with the strings upside down lol

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

@@alvinyakitori8720 you of course have to restring the entire guitar upside down, But i doubt anybody want an end scene where Ellie is ackwardly restringing a guitar upside down for twenty minutes.

[@salildeshpande7]

@@alvinyakitori8720 you can actually, there are guitar players who've done it - Albert King and Dick Dale come to mind

[@CreativeUsernameHere-r1k]

Wow, I love how they tried to make her seem a beacon of light for a certain group and by the story they made her a violent monster.

[@femteezy1992]

Everyone ends up violent when they pursue revenge. Think that was the part of the games message, no?

[@roxanaschiaverano6826]

@@femteezy1992 Lame, we dont need a 35 hours game to know that. And also the execution was horrible

[@josephuuqt]

@@femteezy1992 If wanted something like that, I would go read Berserk. 100 times more enjoyable than this shit

[@drakashrakenburgproduction5369]

@@femteezy1992 yeah but so many other games had already done that but far better. Stop defending bad writing.

[@Technogeek6487]

I could just read Ninja Turtles. It surprisingly does a revenge tale well.

[@kirikakirikakirika]

Abby never even regrets her actions, and after she connects with Lev she basically forgets about Joel. She doesn't learn anything. She gets away with her revenge, we're expected to forgive her, and she never once apologises. In fact, she repeatedly _justifies_ it. Joel literally died for nothing, as his death didn't stop Abby's nightmares and she never thought about him ever again.

[@dontpreorder2783]

I don’t think “we” were supposed to forgive her, it was Ellie’s choice to forgive And that makes it so, so much worse

[@birdwhoknowswhatsgood1483]

"Revenge is bad" *lets the character who got revenge first get away with it and not be affected by it at all* Genius writing there...

[@thatromanfella8377]

Could you fucking imagine the ending, where ellie puts a knife to Lev's throat and Abby instwad of fighting sinks to her knees and mumbles 'my baby boy' or something. Or abby having a emotional talk about why she did what she did and how it lead to it. Maybe say 'you know, i thought killing him would lead to my problems fixing themselves, i was joyous at the start, happy even. Then, i got back to Seattle. I was in denial. I felt so... empty, so lost. What is your name?' 'Ellie' 'Ellie? I like that name. Ellie, im so tired. I've lost every friend i've ever known because of my actions. I only have him left. Please, i know you'll never forgive me but... i just want to be left alone' *ellie perks up, thinks about joel and the way he used to call her kiddo, the tears fall* (there could be a hug, depends, im pretty shit at writing, but the fact that abby and ellie never fucking speak? Part 1 had 50/50 emotional gameplay and cutscenes. Part 2 has lots of cut scenes and even then, some of them fall flat) remember the hospital scene? The one where joel is about to lose his adoptive daughter? The one where joel says a few sentences? Imagine if he said 'but your my baby girl' and ellie heard it and said hurtful nasty shit, my heart would break. I couldnt imagine the balls of the writers if they worked in that ellie doesnt see joel as a dad, but joel sees her as a daughter. Could you imagine how that would effect joel?

[@masonl.4275]

@@thatromanfella8377 honestly that sounds like a better ending and why not have during the theater fight they fall into the floor maskless into spoors that the two are immune to (yes it's dumb with the percentage) but have it be to highlight the indifference between the two and that instead of abby stopping because of BOI she instead stops ellie because of the infected she could hear lev and doesn't want him to be scared like don't have things because they sound cool kinda. My issue with abby isn't her it's her not being used to help the narrative show what revenge does after you get it

[@demetriusean]

@@thatromanfella8377 I honestly think they should have just made Ellie kill Abby and Lev at the end and have Ellie just feel nothing from it. I feel like that would have been a better way to hammer home the idea that revenge doesn't really help

[@maevemurphy7902]

The first game was something I was so attached to... and this game just felt like someone was punishing me for liking it and its characters in the first place.

[@paulfancy9099]

It took everything I liked about the first game and ruined it. It took Ellie a three-dimensional character and turned her into a one-dimensional revenge machine. Expectations subverted?, I guess. Blah.

[@buumandy]

That's exactly how I felt. Punished for loving the first game. I honestly just pretend TLOU2 didn't happen

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

You've got some acute senses then, because that's exactly what it did. It's a form of misantrophy, anti human sentiment, and this game is riddled with it. It's actively telling you to hate yourself. Call me crazy, but I got the feeling they did that to ease you into their political view, such as that it's brave and right for pregnant women to go out for active field work, that women walk around looking like Abby is natural, that bigotry is worth rejecting good quality food over, that not reproducing when on the brink of extinction is a great idea for people carrying rare genes, and that all men are either useless or evil, or sometimes both. Much easier to accept that kind of rhetoric if you're not a strong and proud person yourself, firm in your own beliefs and rooted in reality. The game is making its attempt at breaking you so it can reform you into going along with their new world thinking. It's probably the most sinister story I've ever seen. Glad I kept six people from paying for it. Did my part at least.

[@neven8043]

@@TheStraightestWhitest That’s kinda facts, tired of games and movies doing shit likes this. Why can’t we just make games for the sale of making games, like the fact that games are an art form, or that they have truly passionate fans. I just wished people understood that.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@neven8043 Some still do. The Soulsborne series is completely free of politics. No surprise of course that it's made by From Software, a Japanese company. Point is, some still just see games as a platform of art. But they're becoming more and more rare these days. I usually buy around 1 to 2 games a year now. The rest is all riddled with politics.

[@rodrigofaria9109]

The leaks were bad. The actual game manages to be even worse.

[@shennyyys]

Apparently, the revenge porn was actually Dr. Uckman's idea for the first game (where they planned on making Tess a villain and make her torture and kill Joel towards the end) and was SCRAPED OFF numerous times by the og team from old Naughty Dog but since most of the previous team has quit or were forced out, Dr. Uckman gets to have the steering wheel. I mean... if lots of people tell you your idea is shit... it probably is???

[@shennyyys]

I personally think it would have made so much sense if they decided to introduce us to more immune people since it was mentioned in the last chapter of the first game. Maybe making it seem like this new immune character has an opposite mindset to Ellie (Ellie wanting to use her immunity to save the world but new immune doesn't want to use his immunity to anything because people around him are fucked up and humanity is doomed in his eyes anyway). Saw this in another comment somewhere else and it just made sense tbh. Or if they really want to kill Joel, make a story?? Make Joel die in the hands of someone he trusts because that would be more infuriating to Ellie and is not out of character since Joel is a skeptic dude (hello the guy he knows is bullshiting his wound for an ambush).

[@kito861]

@@shennyyys YES You've read my mind perfectly!

[@Ealsante]

@@shennyyys I actually really wanted Abby to turn out to be immune. Then she would have realised her dad wanted to take Ellie because he didn't want to take *her*. That would have been a bit of a moral gutshot.

[@shennyyys]

@@Ealsante mAN THAT'S PRETTY NICE THO! Especially if she realizes this after she has killed Joel already! Then it'll affect her more 👌👏

[@gasterblaster9817]

"Everyone who calls my ideas shit are incapable of appreciating my geneius" - Neil, probably

[@matteste]

"It's violence for violence sake" Man, finally someone said it. Something I felt almost immediately from this game. All violence with no heart. Just pure sadism.

[@kaj7135]

Well it was written by a bunch of feminists. They’re the most shamelessly sadistic twats on the planet.

[@filipvadas7602]

Joel killed Abby's father cause he was about to kill his surogate daughter for a cure that wasn't even really possible Abby TORTURED Joel for like an hour straight and then bashed his brains in, in front of someone who was begging for his life , all out of revenge Its also fascinating how hard the narrative and gameplay are disconnected. You can go through the game and murder people in the most brutal ways possible and yet , none of that matters. Its only when Naughty Dog decides to put you into a cutscene that suddenly Ellie feels guilt for the death of a handful of people, despite the PILES of bodies she alredy has behind her

[@JerryMcB3rry]

Yeah, when I heard they were making a sequel to the first game, I was worried that they were going to wallow in the decisions Joel made in the first game, since that would cheapen the experience the first game gave us. I was so sad to see that they not only wallowed in the ending of the first game, but made the entire game revolve around the ending of the first game. I think it was Yahtzee Crowshaw that said "A good game leaps off the original, a bad sequel wallows in it." I wanted this game to be great, but goodness gracious it is a massive disappointment.

[@LakesideAmusementPro]

Let’s not forget that the Dr was just a random NPC that was only introduced in the finale of the first game. Guy had no depth or character development whatsoever and was just there. From the get go the I knew basing the story of the sequel on someone’s revenge against her father who was a random NPC was such a shit way to set it up.

[@whenthedustfallsaway]

@@LakesideAmusementPro he also pointed a knife at Joel. He was the only doctor in that room that you were forced to kill.

[@combinecommando001]

@Koria Borein yup, they changed it in the "remaster" just to hamfist their narrative even further.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@combinecommando001. Arguably, the guy was still black in the remaster. It's only in the sequel that he was changed.

[@rhondahoward8025]

This is why Kill Bill is one of the best revenge stories because Beatrix didn't chicken out at the last minute when it came to killing Bill! _"You and I have unfinished business."_ _"Baby, you ain't kiddin'."_

[@johnking9943]

Amen to that. I do kinda wish Tarantino got to make his third movie, so we could see how Beatrix would've reacted to having to follow up on this quote: "When you grow up, and you still feel raw about it... I'll be waiting." I'd like to think that, unlike Abby, Beatrix would accept what Nikki was after her for, though she wouldn't go down without a fight.

[@SloppyJoe1100]

@@johnking9943 Beatrix kiddo was a badass in my eyes when she said those lines. Of course this was said when she thought she had no loved ones left

[@nelsonsham2368]

shite, Max Payne ending will fit TLoU2 but Druckmann just: "no fuck you xfobic"

[@jojo_n_dat7325]

@@johnking9943 Facts, i've always wanted a follow up with Beatrix being killed by Nikki but I guess it wasn't in the cards for Tarantino

[@jojo_n_dat7325]

@Edgy Boi How did you like Once upon a time in hollywood?

[@TheEmperorHyperion]

The lesbian gets more punishment than Senator Armstrong here. So much for being progressive, am I right Neil?

[@psychedelicyeti6053]

Her love scene with Dina was cut out, which I don't mind, but then we had to watch Abby and Owen get naked, which I didn't want to see 😷

[@larrytherustyboii7442]

@@psychedelicyeti6053 Not even sexy. If they want to make a passionate scene it didn't have to be *that* .

[@hoodycoo4391]

“Abbyzilla, the great big body building gorilla”

[@neven8043]

@@larrytherustyboii7442 Two dudes getting it on is not very appealing honestly. And the sounds... they did not need to be heard

[@good__person]

Listen here man, I respect the fact that you let me play your OC girlfirend. But atleast let me kill her, she's annoying.

[@tylerulfmann4586]

I still can’t get over this so joel and his brother team up with some randoms in the apocalypse Joel brother knows Joel is a lifelong raider and gun smuggler and just casually reveals his name and Joel name despite “ I have nightmares from the sh*t you did” like is everyone in the plot stupid and the big ghey

[@BGomez-tk7lu]

They were suspicious to an extent, that's why the brothers asked questions and they told them that they are part of a bigger settlement: to let Abby and friends know that they have people behind their back. Also it is said that it's fairly usual for travelers to be found in the vicinity of Jackson's settlement and it's known that merchants often come to trade. This is proved in the epilogue, when Joel tells Ellie that he got his coffee from some people he found near Jackson (or some passers by, i don't remember). So it'd be fair to assume that the brothers wouldn't automatically think that those guys were specifically out to get them as much as you want to believe. Keep in mind they just escaped a horde of infected together with Abby and whoever survives a life/death situation with you automatically becomes an ally (remember David the canibalistic pedo and Ellie in TLOU?), and you know what they say, 'the friends of my friends are my friends'. That's why no matter how paranoid Joel is it doesn't seem too far fetched to me that they ended up in that situation. Also, you need to take into account that the Joel from the beginning of the game and during the events of TLOU 1 is NOT the same Joel as the Joel in that scene. He's obviously softened quite a bit, that's why he's not that paranoid. He is now a sixty year old man enjoying his retirement going on patrols with his long lost brother, playing the guitar and carving wooden figurines of cowboys and deer, not a rugged suggler and ex-people hunter living in Boston under the constant vigilance of a corrupt and opressive millitarized group moving goods in and out of a frontier. The events of TLOU 1 happen 20 years after the cordyceps breakout and TLOU 2 happens 5 years after the end of the first game. One would expect Joel to change a bit, imo. That's what's known as character development.

[@Nassit-Gnuoy]

B. Gómez Yeah Nah fam. Even if they were somewhat softened up by living in Jackson, you don’t just let your guard down completely around a random group of people in this world. Especially since the dam got raided by bandits in the first game. Over 20 years of being a paranoid survivor should not override 5 years of living in a community.

[@_greenrunner_]

Tissan Young also add the fact that pre apocalypse, joel had a normal life and still drove past a family because he didn’t trust them. Already there him and tommy were cautious of trusting others blindly.

[@billysanderson4921]

@@BGomez-tk7lu nah buf

[@srq6265]

@@BGomez-tk7lu mmmmmmmmmm

[@thegongoozler3374]

I feel like in the past decade ALL writers in media have forgotten how to write a good story. Hollywood and game developers just keep making half-assed sequels nobody asked for instead of crafting a new original creative idea. I would rather have ONE game a year, or even two years, instead of getting five or six rehashes that ruin the things I loved in the past. :/

[@yumyumeatemup]

And it isn't just a North America thing either. Japan has begun to dig into their past library of games and give us remakes that are half assed as well. RE 3 was probably the biggest disappointment UNTIL TLOU2 came out, and is one of the laziest cash ins on a remake I think I have ever experienced.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@yumyumeatemup At least RE3 wasn't filled to the brim with genocidal politics.

[@stephano1019]

@@TheStraightestWhitest That and at least the designs for the characters and surrounding areas look good and story remained pretty much the same as the original.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@@stephano1019 Yup. Carlos' re design and Nemesis were disappointing. That's about the worst of it.

[@stephano1019]

@@TheStraightestWhitest Nemesis' redesign to me looks awesome

[@Subsaibot2526]

That sex seen made me want to sue ND for eye rape. I did not concede to that violation of my senses.

[@larrytherustyboii7442]

Consent.

[@good__person]

I can respect the fact that Neil put his OC Girlfriend, but at least give us the option to dismember her

[@kleber3782]

your pfp

[@XanderPGK]

Angry Joe has a hilarious reaction to that scene 😂

[@bjcantrell1990]

@@good__person I get and appreciate that reference

[@scarletjester7831]

I hate "revenge is bad" stories in games and especially in games were there isn't a non-lethal way to deal with enemies, it defeats the entire message when the hero goes a literal rampage and a mountain of bodies behind them only to stop right at the person that caused all the bloodshed and misery to begin with. It makes no sense in anyway

[@Hubert_Cumberdale_]

The story of the first game was perfect they never should have made a second game.

[@kwamedamuah1838]

You're so right

[@caido1221]

They kinda shot themselves in the foot by even announcing they were making a second one

[@TheodoreBotman]

Making another game is fine, you just dont need to bring the characters back to destroy them.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@TheodoreBotman. Bingo. If you're going to make a sequel, DON'T take a shit on the characters from the first game.

[@noname_noname_]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 they used the first game's success to show their true agenda.. disgusting

[@Pedro-yr8fl]

At the theater: Ellie with two probably broken arms, Dina probably has a concussion, Tommy has a hole in his head, Jessie is making friends with some flies. How tf did they go back to Jackson or survive at all.

[@silenthero2795]

Offscreen, duh!

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@silenthero2795. Huh? What are you even saying?

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

PLOT ARMOR.

[@Payload82]

the plot says so we don't question the titanic size plot hole

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Payload82. I wonder if the Titanic had this same hole back in 1912.... Edit: I can't believe I made a joke about a disaster that killed over a thousand people. 2020 really is dark.

[@Orochi97Jr]

This game is just punishing Ellie for seeking revenge while rewarding Abby for seeking revenge.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

A bad message is awful. A HYPOCRITICAL message, on the other hand, is insulting and disgusting.

[@aquariumstatik8497]

All of Abby's friends were killed. I think the debts been paid.

[@Orochi97Jr]

@@aquariumstatik8497 Abby didn't give a fuck about her friends besides Owen.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Orochi97Jr. Bingo. Not to mention Owen was a cheating sleazy asshole, so we end up cheering when he dies.

[@bendao1862]

Didn't Abby got all her friends killed because she got her revenge?

[@TheTrueRandomGamer]

*(Uses Berserk to highlight writing flaws in TLOU2)* I'd go to hell and back for you.

[@sarmeister1699]

I liked, but I had to remove it to keep ya at 69...

[@griffith4723]

@@sarmeister1699 Are you 12?

[@sarmeister1699]

@@griffith4723 Nope, I just respect the ways of the internet.

[@griffith4723]

@@sarmeister1699 now, this is what I like to call a “Reddit moment”.

[@sarmeister1699]

@@griffith4723 Tis just a moment of coincidence, followed by possibility my dear Watson. All things can have a chance of happening no matter how improbable, just as it was as highly improbable that you would happen upon this comment and just as improbable, if not more so, to decide to click on to view the replies.

[@GrayD_Fox]

LoU2 isn’t canon, it’s just another fan fic with a budget.

[@tunasandwich8049]

Like the starwars sequels

[@blacktigerpaw1]

I've read better fanfics. One was a crossover with Shay Cormac from Assassin's Creed.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@blacktigerpaw1. Wow. That actually sounds like an interesting idea for a spinoff.

[@alexanderinoa7850]

Goddamn, if the fan fics I wrote and published got this budget...

[@junnaluan]

@@blacktigerpaw1 What is the title

[@jasonalv7436]

The reason people gave this game a review like 1 or 2 /10 is not only because they hated the story, it's mostly because the game critics are clearly getting paid by Sony to spam fake 10/10 masterpiece reviews so the game could sell well. We as people who are involved in the gaming industry don't want this type of toxicity or should say cheating to be in the community of gaming for the sake of profit. I seriously hated the game cause of that reason and the bs story

[@henrikfitch4017]

Let me just say, I absolutely loved this game and there are many, many people who would agree with me. I'm fine with people not liking the game, but immediately saying that anyone who liked the game must have been bought out by Sony is just childish.

[@hiranmaydas4921]

@@henrikfitch4017 You must be living under a rock if you think video game critics and reviewers aren't actual sellouts. I won't blame ya. Its one of the many reasons why the gaming industry in general is in a literal shithole.

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@hiranmaydas4921 Ok, and? Does that mean that anyone who likes a game is instantly a sellout?

[@hiranmaydas4921]

@@henrikfitch4017 Maybe, who knows? Shilldom is something that actually exists. I mean, if you like a game, its fine. But just because YOU liked a game, doesn't make it better for others. Its still objectively bad and the OP's comment further proves this point.

[@masonl.4275]

@@henrikfitch4017 plus saying any game is a 10/10 doesn't help it since many games have flaws and for a story game to have a weak plot is like buying a lemon car with a new coat of paint, it looks good but have fun driving it anywhere without it giving up

[@psychedelicyeti6053]

The cannibal group instead of fireflies is an interesting idea, to say the least

[@Rosielx]

The proposed universe is interesting, but the story telling was just... disgusting

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Rosielx. Better than some no name doctor we spend way too little time with to make us care about him.

[@Rosielx]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 it is also innacurate as TLOU2 implies you killed him by gunshot, but I remember having killed him with the flamethrower, just because I wanted to make him pay for doing the right thing ... 🤤

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Rosielx. Wow. Why not just show us his corpse and then the characters can't really tell what method was used to kill him? In that way, you already make all of the choices to kill the doctor canon.

[@saihiko9967]

Also marleen wasn't used for the sequel, like that could've been used since she was queen firefly and ellie couldn't have been the only kid she rescued, there could've been other children or teens she was teaching, preparing them for the world around them, i feel abby in concept was a really interesting idea, but the execution was done so poorly, it should've been with marleen instead of the random doctor, i feel like there was so much potential but it was ruined oh well we win some, we lose a lot more

[@LakotaMan]

... I... preordered this game out of blind loyalty to the first game and naughty dog and when I heard about the story leak, I avoided as many leakes as possible but got Joel’s death spoiled. I thought he would die in a heroic way later on but when I played the game... you know what happened, I continued my gameplay in the hopes that I would get to kill abby in the end. When I found out that Ellie lets her go I immediately stopped playing and never played it again since. I was so disappointed with the story but now I just don’t care.

[@МаксимКудрявцев-ю9о]

Bruh, I am in the same shoes here... And I played it at the same time I got news of failing my exams for the first time. Can't describe how depressed I was for the next week. If I am lucky I ll confront that Neil fucker and ask to return the money personally.

[@badreedinedjellali1328]

he already get what's coming to him so no need for that so don't waste your time thinking about him if you really want to feel satisfied about seeing Nile drunkman s game get shit on watch Mannix or play ghost of thsuima

[@МаксимКудрявцев-ю9о]

@@badreedinedjellali1328 its not about Neil. It is fact that I bought it. It is like giving vote to some1 horrible. But in the Market there is a chance to take your "votes" back. That s what it is about. Taking one's vote back.

[@dranixrush3306]

I don't have an issue with Joel's Death within itself; just with the events that resulted in his death. One thing the game did right was portraying how grim the world can be, even in death.

[@wolfsbane154]

The worst part is that the fandom will stop caring about Last Of Us, because of how bad part 2 was. Which is really bad for the franchise... Since they're giving an obvious hint of a 3rd game, and ...nobody cares anymore.

[@amharbinger]

Thank you! I made an entire video explaining how Joel's murder made no sense and I got a bunch of people saying the same thing. How the game supposed to happen, you're just hating on the game, and so on. No, this weak plotline needs to be called out. Abby does a lot of horrible things, heck she's the reason all her friends get killed and she gets off free? Ellie on the other hand is scarred for life and loses everything. But Abby had a dog and likes animals. Seriously, they overdid the revenge plot, even with the collectibles, but the emotional manipulation was just as strong.

[@henrikfitch4017]

How the fuck did Abby just, get off free? You literally said she got all her friends killed a sentence before. She has lost everything and everyone she cared about and she undoubtedly feels the same way that Ellie does, just because you aren't spoonfed it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[@HectorJimenez-ee9zi]

@@henrikfitch4017 she still has lev, and in the end her friends were just a means to an end, looking for and killing joel.

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@HectorJimenez-ee9zi Ellie still (probably) has Dina, she has the people of Jackson. She also used her friends as a means to an end.

[@Spideyman.w]

@@henrikfitch4017 But Ellie never asked them to come. Ellie no longer lives in Jackson and Dina dipped on Ellie. It isn't implied or stated that Ellie ever goes back to her family (that no longer wants anything to do with her) they do however show you that Abby and Lev made it to the Fireflies in the main menu.

[@henrikfitch4017]

@@Spideyman.w Weren't they originally going to have Ellie holding a stuffed toy in the last scene?

[@idealcreation7536]

Can't believe people think this game is good

[@laniakeas92]

We have different levels of emotional intellegence, empaths and high sensitive people just don't digest fake and forced emotions that game carries. People with lower emotional intellegence are easily can be manipulated into liking this writer disaster

[@gioootalks4850]

It’s definitely not bad. The only bad thing is the pacing tbh. I understand why Ellie’s and Joel’s relationships was where it was, you ever have a girlfriend and lie to her? To some girls, that’ll ruin a relationship and that’s what happened with Ellie and Joel and Ellie gave Joel a lot of chances to tell her. The reason she’s seeking revenge and because she’s mad at herself, not Abby. She’s mad she didn’t forgive Joel fully and that’s how the relationship ended. The whole revenge is bad isn’t being pushed that bad. Everyone in the game is a bad guy, not just Joel and Ellie, it’s Abby too and the scars and abbys faction. There’s so much but it’s not bad by any means. I think a lot of people let KZbinrs make their mind up based on the spoilers. I bought the game and played it with no spoils, for me, they only problem is some of the pacing, and the fact they advised the game as another Joel and Ellie adventure when it wasn’t. I also would prefer a different ending, where she doesn’t stop but I understand why.

[@patriciajin6206]

I personally dislike the game becaus the first game was one of my fav games, but everyone has different opinion and taste.

[@MarvelousPhilly]

Let's try not confusing the shitty story (which is basically the only thing he's talking about in this video) with the overall game. Because it is a good game. Don't worry. Admitting the game is good isn't gonna make you not cool, kids. People crack me up with that shit lol.

[@謎思特異]

the quality is definitely seen good...... the story.............doh, nevermind

[@Veteransmoker]

I stopped playing when the game made me kill a pregnant woman and a dog and had the nerve to shame me for it. The game is like a toxic partner that gaslights and shames you.

[@Draculiov]

As Arthur Morgan once’s said; “Revenge is a fools game.”

[@yurisiqueira558]

Bro if I got a dollar for everytime I saw someone use this phrase of to justify the shitty story I soube supper rich by now

[@ahmadhakim535]

Unless you're a bodybuilder with plot armour, then you'll be pardoned. #shitwriting

[@metromangaming8782]

Borderlands 2 and the tps executed the "everyone is the hero of their own story" way much better than tlou 2

[@frankwest5388]

Non of these games even try to hide the selfishness of their characters. Handsome Jack wants to clean up the wastes and bring civilization to the borderlands, but he is still using his infinite power to bully weaker people and enrich himself. The vault hunter tries to fight a fascist megacorp and prevent it from unleashing an alien super weapon, but they are all straight up murderers, robbers and will even murder an infant if someone pays a bounty for it. It’s easy to shift your perspective to support any side. Which is why Borderlands 3 sucks so hard. It glorifies the Vaulters and seems to deify Lilith, who committed countless war crimes in BL1,2 and TPS. The vaulters aren’t hero’s at their core. They are selfish violent psychopaths who just so happen to shoot at other selfish violent psychopaths.

[@jagar5580]

@@frankwest5388 true that brother

[@declanjones8888]

​@@frankwest5388 I believe you, after all you have covered wars.

[@kokdolfn]

@@frankwest5388 the vault hunters arent selfish violent psychopaths. the meaning of vault hunter got shifted in bl3 from "random person looking for the vault" aka just a treasure hunter, to "ultra famous guy that probably has super powers and is invincible". also bl3s main problem is poor pacing (too much time on eden-6, not enough time on promethea or nekratafeyo) and poorly written/annoying villians. also they build up to a really cool twist where troy woulve betrayed tyreen and absorbed her instead of the other way around which honestly would have heavily elevated the main villians. but instead we got a super easy, multiple invincibility phases boss that looks like something out of a crappy resident evil game

[@saturn580]

Druckmann would never kill Abby because he's a cowardly little sadist who only gets off on destroying other people's creations.

[@cck6591]

right

[@editating_2614]

He destroyed Joel and Ellie but that doesn't mean they weren't his creations. He just, fucking hates them for some reason.

[@declanjones8888]

​@@editating_2614 No they literally weren't his creations TLOU was written by Amy Henig and another guy (I forget his name.) Neil Druckman just told him ideas at best and they had to usually ignore or filter his ideas because they were dumb.

[@Santouryu3]

Revenge is a fool's game! *Arthur Morgan*

[@throbbingfellow1136]

not even jesus will save you Because Ellie had already massacred hundreds when she suddenly decided that revenge was wrong, the damage had already been done. That’d be like if John fought his way up to Micah’s hideout only to suddenly decide to spare him. He would still have left a trail of bodies for the government to track him down with, just without accomplishing what he set out to do in the first place.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

@not even jesus will save you Then you don't understand that quote. Revenge isn't a fool's game because of the killing of the person you're seeking vengeance on. It's a fool's game because of what comes with that. Ellie's journey was the fool's game. Killing Abbey would've just tied up a loose end at this point, because only Abby was still alive to know the atrocities Ellie had committed. She was okay murdering an estimated 260 people, but not the one whose actions caused her to do all that? Terrible writing. Let's face it; the real reason Ellie didn't kill Abby is because Abby is a woke as fuck girlpower icon, and we can't kill one of those. That's also the reason Ellie didn't die. Too much murder revenge porn for misandrist lesbians to enjoy for ND to kill her off.

[@throbbingfellow1136]

@not even jesus will save you John didn’t need to go after Micah, he could’ve kept on being a rancher just as Ellie could’ve kept on living at the farm. Sadie shows up to convince John into helping her get revenge just as Tommy does, and in both cases the protagonists family are strongly against it. Both characters end up giving up everything in their quest for revenge, John his peaceful second chance at life and eventually his own life and Ellie her family and fingers. Only difference is John at least took his revenge for his dead brother. Seems pretty damn similar to me.

[@throbbingfellow1136]

@not even jesus will save you Arthur and John were as close as brothers in the end, that’s what I meant. John’s objective was always to kill Micah, not Dutch, so that doesn’t really work.

[@throbbingfellow1136]

@not even jesus will save you Did you play the first game? John wasn’t hunting his former gang members for revenge, he was doing it because the government was holding his family hostage. He never wanted to kill any of his former brothers in the same way he wanted to see Micah dead.

[@laniakeas92]

At this point of time I'm more than sure that the story which the first part of tlou was based on actually was written by another person and Neil Druckmann only took credits fo it. On the contrary, this story of tlou2 is entirely his own creation. You clearly see the the point of view of an 14year old girl stucked in her puberty.

[@TheStraightestWhitest]

Close enough. The first game was written in Druckman's head by 2003, and all the bad was filtered out by Bruce Straley. This one was written by Anita Sarkeesian.

[@dontpreorder2783]

@@TheStraightestWhitest you ruined it 😑

[@elizabethyoung5304]

@@TheStraightestWhitest I knew that sanctimonious bitch had her hand on TLOU2 just didn't know how much she was involved. The fact she was dating Druckman could every well have something to do with it and story became this woke piece of garbage. F- them

[@lollllolll.]

Revenge isn't bad. My sister stole my chocolate once. I stole her chocolate candy 1 week later.

[@randomcenturion7264]

Perfectly balanced.

[@nothingmuch4004]

Equivalent exchange

[@shadowofhawk55]

@@randomcenturion7264 As all things should be

[@FriendlyDarkwraith]

Your suggestion to have Abby commit suicide would be even better because it would force Ellie to decide Lev's fate as well. Does she leave the kid to die in the boat or try and survive alone in California, possibly setting the stage for yet another pointless revenge cycle, or does she lie about how Abby died and bring "him" back to Jackson or Catalina Island, effectively making the same decision as Joel at the end of the first game, thereby allowing her to truly reconcile with him by being forced to walk in his shoes. That way Lev's introduction in the story is no longer a pointless and poor attempt to garner sympathy points for Abby way too late in the game.

[@penguiatiator]

I wonder if it would work with the ending showing Ellie pointing a gun at Lev, then cut to a black screen and a gunshot. Then the credits fade in with the sun slowly rising over the water, and the camera pans down to Ellie's body floating in the water, still holding the gun, revealing she's shot herself as well. Then the camera slowly pulls out as the credits roll. Ellie has lost everything as well, and the suicide of Abby only highlights to her how useless and terrible her "rampage" has been, and how she now has nothing left to live for. Maybe even a scene after that showing Dina trying to learn one of Ellie's original songs. It would probably garner more hate, but it would at least make the plot coherent.

[@KayosHybrid]

The quotation marks are very scuffed if you

[@HumbleDirtMerchant]

If your going to have a "vengeance bad" story, fine. But don't make the target of the hero's vengeance a homicidal maniac who will keep killing if the hero lets them go.

[@Astroryx]

“My all time favorite” and “Berserk” Someone gained a fan

[@Delicashilous]

You should play/watch Drakengard 1. A Grotesque Masterpiece, with a Message, about the hilarious Cold Truth about the World.

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

It's times like these that makes me glad I wasn't a fan of the first game.

[@briangilmartin662]

Same. Seems like I was right to ignore this franchise

[@shadowNooob]

Play/watch the first game, trust me and pretend this game didnt happen.

[@justtryanother7290]

While this game is a failure, the first one was awesome. Don’t let this ruin that game while I’m not crazy about it I liked it a lot and it’s definitely worth it.

[@masonl.4275]

As someone who was it's like raising a puppy for 3 years then someone kicks your ass, shots your dog, and then paints the wall with its blood it really does hurt me

[@straightjacket308]

Same. To be honest, I enjoyed Bioshock Infinite's story better than the first Last of Us. But that may have a small bit to do with my buddy overhyping the game, but Bioshock Infinite just had me more attached, especially at the end.

[@cringespotted8355]

9:33 another thing I love that makes no sense is that those cheap, desperate finger-biting type of tricks is what Ellie in TLoU1 LIVED OFF OF. It was her oldest trick in the book but she willingly sticks her fingers into Abby's mouth for no reason anyway just so the game can say she has a physical reminder of her "foolish decisions".

[@howtoeataham]

Right?! Why would she stick her fingers in her mouth? Hella dumb lmao

[@blackjack1368]

The train of thought I had when I first started hearing about the story for TLOU2, and when I learned the full story reading about it after it’s release, was just: “This sounds more like some middle schooler’s fan fiction sequel of TLOU rather than the proper continuation in the series by a AAA studio.”

[@declanjones8888]

It basically is Neil Druckman didn't write the first TLOU, but he certainly wrote the second. And Neil is fundamentally a bad writer.

[@gaia7240]

Just add some gore porn and thats it

[@thefirefades2265]

So here’s my question jerry is a surgeon right. How in the hell would he have any knowledge on how to make a vaccine. Surgeons study and operate on human anatomy. Making vaccinations, treatments, and antibiotics is the job of a biochemist. Plus as a surgeon he would know multiple ways on how to retrieve infected tissue. Perform a brain biopsy if you really need a sample from Ellie’s brain. Also if this vaccine worked ( P.S vaccines don’t work on fungal infections. Vaccines are primarily used for bacteria) how would the world just magically turn around. Sure you can’t get infected but the infected will still try and kill you. People have dissolved into survival mode, having a vaccine wouldn’t change much. And how would they mass produce this vaccine it takes billions of dollars, time, and RESOURCES to make anything for a harmful parasite. Unless the fireflies had some biochemist on their team it’s no wonder they kept failing to make a vaccine, the surgeon doesn’t know what he’s doing. But i don’t know why I’m applying real world medical knowledge to a video game, just something to think about that’s all.

[@YodaSama0]

No you make an excellent point and Neil Cuckman is a literal moron

[@seanbennett3452]

Also, the Fireflies had proved to be weak and incompetent in the story, so why trust them to kill your daughter. Trash sequel.

[@Mglue3]

If I recall correctly, he was a vetinarian by training.

[@jcgamer1650]

Killing 100s of people is fine but killing the person who killed your father? Yeah no we draw the line at that, that is not ok

[@krasmasov6852]

No, killing 100s of people wasn't fine either. She just learned better over time.

[@jcgamer1650]

@@krasmasov6852 No shit.

[@alyssalamberto5751]

It boils down to this with me. I like Joel and Ellie. They are interesting characters that I grew to love through the first game. Everyone new in the second game, except lev and Abbie, are boring. I genuinely like Lev, but Abbie is just infuriating. She’s just an asshole, no real depth, just snark.

[@LittleBigBwner]

Oh my GOD is this game an atrocity. It honestly feels like Neil spent the whole time making the story then forget he had to make a fucking GAME too. That must be why there's literally no gameplay innovations and it's basically U4 engine mixed with TLOU engine and the "game play" is just walking around listening to shit dialogue. There are so many problems with this story. Like how Abby literally turns on her own group that's she's been with for a long time and murders a lot of them in cold blood because "save the children!" Even though there's a part where Abby, Manny and Pixie chick talk about where they had to kill some kids offscreen. And how late in the game when Isaac is introduced he's torturing, well just talking, to some frail, skin and bones, naked dude and it's only for 5 seconds and he hands him off to another guy and that's it and you never see anything like it again. Or just the abundance of times a character goes "come on, i got something to show you" or, *goes through creavous and is thrown into cutscene*. Abby is supposed to be "the goodguy" yet she honestly does worse shit than Ellie and her story is just contrived bullshit. Nothing makes fucking sense, this shitshow just drags on and on and on. And we're supposed to see things from "both points of view" and "there's 2 sides to everything" or whatever, but honestly that is just the stupidest story structure. Because literally what about all the other dozens of people killed on the journey, they must've had lives, loved ones, families to look after, etc. Abby is the most forced in character I've ever seen and Neil has the creative talent of a fucking Donkey, yet honestly that is an insult to Donkeys cuz I am certain they could do a better job. It just is so infuriatingly disappointing because I LOVED the first game, and still do to some extent but this has absolutely tainted my love for it all, and whenever I see parts of the first game, I can still sometimes talk along with characters dialogue because I played the first game, start through finish close to or over 30 times about 6-7 years ago. I was so excited for this and after completing it was nothing but disappointed. I couldn't even beat my second playthrough and their "grounded update" didn't even entice me at all to play again cuz I knew what was coming and it sucks. I wish I had seen leaks, I wish I knew how terrible it was so I didn't have to sin and waste money on this worthless attempt of storytelling. Neil can't write worth a smidgen of shit and I'm honestly wondering what he contributed to the first, and any other gsmes he's worked on if he makes the shit on his own.

[@MrGofyaself]

No new gameplay innovations!? Have you not seen the absolutely ingenious mechanics they have addee to the game? You can now throw rope around and crawl in the grass!! ...and thats about it... yeah nevermind...

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@MrGofyaself. I mean, there is a dedicated dodge button now, but let's be honest here: the game never has you take advantage of that thing.

[@benprickett8894]

@@MrGofyaself And you can jump, cant forget about that ingenious addition to the game.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@benprickett8894. In fact, it's SO ingenious that it's used like one or two times because of how short it is.....

[@jerm70]

They could improved the ending by going through with Abby's death and then have the same ending. "Was it worth it, Ellie" would of been way better than what we got.

[@mr.skateandwatch]

It says a lot if undertale has a theme in the genocide run portrayed better than TLOU2’s take, & it’s a 5 year gap

[@jeremyallen5974]

That's because Undertale actually punishes the player for being an asshole

[@MSupaCroc]

You want a game that does this kind of message right? Spec Ops: The Line

[@elizabethyoung5304]

I actually watched a play-through of The Line some time ago and it devastated me. I know it's not the same as playing through it yourself but even still I felt horrible at the end. I also watched a stream of TLOU2 and thought the story was total garbage and is years apart from The Line. OMG, yes! I want to play The Line myself when I feel ready for it. I don't think I need to ever play TLOU2 because the poorly written story would waste my time too much

[@MSupaCroc]

​@@elizabethyoung5304 The Line gets better every single time you play it. Cuz when your attention is not stolen by what's exactly in front of you, you start to pick up a lot of side details, and the story behind those details is even more devastating. Let me give you an example...... SPOILER ALERT DONT READ FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANNA BE SPOILED I AM WARNING YOU LAST WARNING OK? YOU READY? HERE WE GO! There is a point in a game where Lugo (one of your comrades) gets lynched by a mob of locals because you are being blamed for the destruction of the last water supplies. This moment is foreshadowed when you rappel down a building, the reflection of a hanging man can be seen on your left side (the side where Lugo always rappels beside Walker)

[@editating_2614]

@@MSupaCroc another detail is you don't have to shoot the locals but you most likely will by that point because the game's just that efficient

[@TOAOM123]

To determine if a game is pretentious, make a line graph plotting "how deep a narrative actually is" vs "how deep the creative team THINKS the story is"

[@goodhunter9791]

Berserk is a better revenge story. Don't play TLoU 2. Read Berserk.

[@sarmeister1699]

Ya know what might have also made TLOU2 interesting? Seeing how all the other factions and settlements around that area react to this. I mean think about it, WLF effectively sent out an attack squad to kill someone from a settlement that had no quarrels with them and had done nothing to them. The WLF attacked first, even if it wasn't them actually attacking and there were in-universe "reasons" for the attack, no one else knows them except Abby, her friends, and maybe some leadership in the WLF. Now imagine their surprise when no one's willing to trade with them, settlements are actively hostile, and factions actually go to war with them if not help out the Serraphites. That could be interesting as well, it would be showing that the consequences that Abby should get would extend farther than just her and her friend group. It would affect everyone in the WLF because of her actions.

[@supereldinho]

Remember how in Far Cry New Dawn the story immediately introduces us to the Highwaymen led by those 2 psycho twins as if to say "these are the people you're supposed to hate and here's why"? That's what this game does, only the writers somehow got into their heads that the muscle-bound psycho bitch that goes all Negan on Joel and Ellie can be made sympathetic after the fact if only we got to see things from her perspective -- which includes taking control away from Ellie and forcing us to spend half the game playing as the 1 character we absolutely don't wanna play as and instead wanna see her gutted like a pig by Ellie. And then of course, some smartass had the bright idea of having us fight against Ellie of all people...and most players have shown just how much they care by putting the controller down and let Ellie kill this bitch and stopped playing after that. Congrats Naughty Dog, not only have you made one of the worst-written games in recent memory, you've also created one of the most utterly disliked characters in gaming history -- all because you cared more about pushing an agenda instead of making a fun game.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

At least for the twins in New Dawn they didn't have much of an intent to actively insult your intelligence and your love for the previous game. If anything, with all of the references to Far Cry 5, New Dawn was actively trying to show how everything has changed over the past 17 years while giving you some gutpunches such as showing Boomer's grave. TLDR: in a way, Far Cry New Dawn actually went out of its way to care for and continue loving the previous game.

[@Michael-it6gb]

I feel like 80% of people who said TLOU2 was a masterpiece must be payed off or trolling.

[@RonJeremy514]

No, just the typical brainless consumers. I know I will offend people but as a kid, I wanted to purchase everything with a Star Wars name on it. Then I grew up. Some people don't grow up though and will gladly purchase all the merchandising, the subscriptions, read the super niche lore comics because if you don't know all the made up lore, then you are a loser, then they watch all the shows finding pride in calling themselves "hardcore fans" and the industry thanks them for being naive emptying their pockets so easily. But hey, did you know there was this one Twi'lek Jedi that met Darth Vader once that explains the thing about the other thing of the other subplot about the actual thing, then she became Sith then back to Jedi, but plot twist she became a Wayseeker but then back to Sith and finally a Jedi at the very last minute when she died? There you go. People would pay to read about this shit.

[@h20polo21hole]

So hate to add more flame to this fire..... but Abby was awarded as the best character in the Game Awards this year. Also LOU2 got GOTY as well.... 😑

[@Betroid]

CAN YOU IMAGINE PLAYING GOD OF WAR 1-3 and getting to zeus and kratos just walks away that’s TLOU2

[@Smiley_Face_Killer]

Okay, here’s what made absolutely NO SENSE to me about the story: Ellie spends all that time tracking down Abby, bests her in a fight and then LETS HER LIVE?! That basically tells me that her leaving Dina at the farm, going through all that horrid shit, and getting her fingers bitten off was all for NOTHING. It was all a complete waste of time.

[@BWMagus]

Well, yeah, it would have been a complete waste of time anyway. But it would have been more impactful if she killed Abby, came home triumphant, only to have the reality of the situation smack her in the face. That's conventional but logical. Having her sacrifice everything for revenge and then not even get the revenge because of a random flashback is just crazy, because when you are actually THAT obsessed, it takes something like seeing your whole life destroyed to snap you out of it (if anything can), not just "Huh, my father figure would probably disapprove of my recent life choices."

[@Lugbzurg]

Oh, my word...! I just realized what it reminds me of...! The way Ellie hunts Abby and lets her go and hunts her down and lets her go... *Sonic '06* Eggman kidnapes Elise and Sonic saves her and Eggman kidnaps Elise and Sonic saves her... IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING!

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Why does that awful dumpster fire of a reboot have to be mentioned? Not that it doesn't fit: it 100% is the same.

[@Lugbzurg]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 It's way better than this, I can tell you that. Man, imagine if they actually went through, like Naughty Dog did, with taking the whole "Iblis Trigger" thing to its absolute extreme by making it actually legit, instead of Silver just being tricked, then Silver kills Sonic by hurling him into the Moon, and then you spend the rest of the game playing as Silver, while the game proceeds to demonize Sonic and condemn the player for ever liking him in the first place.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Lugbzurg. Yeah, no. For all of it's flaws, Sonic 06 at least has the capability to make you laugh with how incompetent it is.

[@Lugbzurg]

@@dragonbornexpress5650 Exactly. I'd rather play Sonic '06. At least it didn't try to preach to you how awful you are for liking the main character, and it attempted to be exciting.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Lugbzurg. Oh, it DID attempt. It just fucking failed.

[@_threedog_3318]

the most luckiest day in my life was this game was leaked on youtube, the person who leaked this shit save me money so i can buy GTA V and TLOU1 back then.

[@MatthewsGauss]

SPOILERS FOR RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2: Imagine if in the end John decides to spare Micah after coming after him on the mountain. It would just make no fucking sense.

[@arthurleandro11]

What really doesn't make sense to me is the fact that they ignore the game aspect of the experience. Like Joel didn't kill the doctor in a cutscene, it was still gameplay, I did aim at Abby's father and shot him in the head. And I continued to do it at every single playthrough. But in the end of the second, when Abby was down I wanted to shoot her in the brain and I just couldn't., they didn't gave me the choice as I received in the first one. They messed up with this revenge plot because this isn't a movie, this is a game where players interact with the world. I didn't fell bad for killing the woman that was pregnant, they killed Joel in front of me and I wanted revenge. But form some reason Ellie wasn't up for it. I never felt so disconnected with a main character as I felt with this version of Ellie, she just isn't the person I risked the entire humanity for. It was so bad, that when she went to the final battle, I just didn't give a damn about her or her goals anymore. In the end this game just didn't work for me, while playing as Joel killed a doctor, who had a daughter that ended up killing Joel in an ambush. I wanted to get revenge playing as Ellie, and whenever the game arose to situations where I could indeed take my revenge, the game stopped being a game and became a movie where I was just there watching instead of playing. And whenever the characters started to act in those said cut scenes, it never progressed to where I wanted to be. Whoever wrote on this game, need to understand that this is a game, players should interact with the story not just be someone who had front seats to a play.

[@backupschmliff1156]

Honestly, more people should boycott games. It's seriously easy. Literally all you have to do is wait like 3months and you can just buy a copy from a used game store so that Naughty Dog and Sony get none of the profits.

[@mitchjames9350]

This game is an example of the Emperor has no clothes situation for Neil, Neil got praised for Last of Us and Uncharted 4 as well as being a contributing factor to previous Uncharted games. Now that Amy Henning, Bruce Starley and others are not there to reign him in he was left to his devices resulting in him being exposed for the pretentious hack he is.

[@riiddisbuk2496]

You know what also doesn't make sense... Game Awards.

[@SevOneSev7en]

RDR2 had a way better anti-revenge story than this.

[@alugilac8182]

And even then you still get revenge at the end.

[@walkingcontradiction223]

The plan Arthur!

[@olanrewajudavid5446]

I feel that the person that leaked the story saw how bad it was and was trying to warn us and get Naughty Dog to change it based on our reaction... To think about it, a game or movie about that would have been better than what we got in TLOU 2...

[@alexanderchippel]

What would've been an interesting take if they went the opposite route and defended the idea of revenge. It's kind of like how old heros like The Shadow are a million times more interesting than modern day heros because of how objective and righteous he is. But I don't think anyone involved in this game possesses the talent needed to make an interesting idea work.

[@PsychoRavager]

The lesson of The Last of Us: Part 2 is definitely something I'd love to follow through with. If I ever go on a revenge quest, I'll remember to dig to graves, one for the torso and the other for the lower body. Cuz, unlike Ellie, Imma finish the fucking job.

[@christopheryanez]

Remember folks, because of this game Sarah died for nothing

[@REDACTEDrose184]

Yeah,MisAnthroPony told me about that

[@sammastersful]

This is the worst written game, maybe ever

[@buggyyuji851]

Yep up there

[@antoniofeliciano8097]

...

[@buggyyuji851]

@@antoniofeliciano8097 😂 so you trash dead fandom nobody take y’all seriously no more try to defend said LAst of trash 2 is good or great game lol

[@QwertzQwertz-hs5fn]

so true nothing make sense XD

[@QuietRage]

What I hate about this game (I never played the first one, and now I am glad I didn't so I wasn't affected by the bombshell of disappointment that was the sequel) is that Abby COULD have been a cool, interesting addition, but the way she was implemented and coddled by the story absolutely ruined any potential she had.

[@tkell31]

I'm fine with it being the fireflies tracking Joel down. That makes sense. I think the game would have been fine if they just picked up at the hospital. We meet Abbie and her friends and play as them seeking Joel, losing people on the way (adding to the tab), joining the Wolves, finally finding him and killing him in a way that makes more sense. Then we can see how the way it was done splits the group. Easy to see Mel and Owen having an issue with it. Then cut to Ellie on her path of revenge. I dont think that makes it a worthy sequel, but I think it plays better and might allow people to get invested in ambiguous Abe and Company. Instead we were treated to a lot of gameplay with characters we didn't care about or who had changed so much they weren't as interesting. Very disappointing this is what they came up with.

[@thealmightyoreoking]

12:40 A: “The surgeon that was supposed to operate on you was my father! What was I supposed to do when he was all I had in this fucked up world?!” E: “And you think your father would have wanted this? To make me watch as you took the closest thing I EVER had to a family away from me? He may have done something horrible but, how the hell would he have known?! You’re nothing, NOTHING special! You think I know nothing about loss? Everyone. EVERYONE I have loved has died or left me! Everyone except for the man that YOU murdered.” A: “Shut the fu-“ E: “And what?! Let you lecture me about your loved ones? If you really cared about them, you would have killed myself and Tommy long ago!” Not a pro writer but, I think I might have fixed it

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Damn. Some actual good dialogue. Too bad the game it's meant to be in doesn't have it.

[@sapomercador7257]

This is actually good

[@thealmightyoreoking]

@@sapomercador7257 thanks! I try my best. I’m considering writing comics and prose novels

[@sapomercador7257]

@@thealmightyoreoking you should man, your good

[@MetAlcboy]

TLOU 2 D-Riders: NUH UH! ☝️

[@jacobgonzalez2002]

"tHaT wOuLdNt WoRk BeCaUsE tHaTs NoT rEaLiStIc"- 🤓

[@BonePapi]

This 'game' is like a car crash where every seat in both cars is filled by babies who explode as soon as the carfire reaches them.

[@kuu-zaki4577]

Dark Souls 2 had a really troubled development having to be redone from scratch midway through development and has an infinitely better story and game than Last of Us 2.

[@Ksavputin]

Yeah, i guess 0 is still better than -100😏

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

@@Ksavputin. Huh?

[@HectorJimenez-ee9zi]

@@Ksavputin indeed, They laugh at us part2 is 0

[@Prince_of_Despair]

To be fair, Dark Souls is actually fun and interesting

[@AB-fr2ei]

​@@Prince_of_Despair both are extremely overrated

[@azrieljale]

1:45 Damn did Ellie age 20 years in a 4 year timeskip? Or did Druckmann just beat her with ugly hammer?

[@rikardosilva1754]

Just compare "Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood" take on the cycle of violence

[@Kain4940]

Last of Us 2, the only game where the villan has the plot armour....

[@1.0xY.m0r0n]

And this won game of the year...

[@aagh8714]

@Viva España Viva el rey google GOTY 2019, not really lmao

[@jugsofmalk9987]

Players choice is what matters too me

[@kilarymz4life772]

​@@aagh8714it was released in 2020

[@madoka7074]

Guess this just further proves that No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle is an amazing revenge story, (even if there was a a point or two left out by accident in the game).

[@paranoyd70]

Drunkmann wouldn't allow Abbey to be killed because she is meant to be the main characters of the sequel. Abby & Lev were meant to replace Joel & Ellie. They literally build up Abby and Lev in the same ways. This is what you get when you mix woke politics with lazy writing.

[@deathkorpsgrenadier2419]

Kinda find it funny how throughout TLOU, the virus and how quickly it spread and how the world was torn because of it was a huge part of the narrative, mixing with the factions, raiders, nerds, military and what not In TLOU2 it feels like surviving the whole virus thing becomes a plot device instead of being the plot Oh, why did you murder that group of people? Neil: Oh, shit, right, motive, uhhhh, what was that thing again? The virus? Cool I murdered them because virus bad, need food Neil: Good stuff guys, I'm proud of my development team, now let us rub our cocks together as a symbol of unity

[@gaia7240]

The end killed me😂😂

[@Arkadikuss]

Okay. I agree with all you said. I have the same opinion. But I wrote this comment just because of one thing. THAT DOUBLE KILL SFX WHEN ELLIE KILLED THE PREGNANT CHICK OMG JESUS I LAUGHED SO HARD!! Well done, well done :P

[@josedorsaith5261]

A story about the cycle of violence: written by people who have lived their entire lives sheltered from said violence Can't help noticing Sony exclusives make their female characters look like transexuals as of late. I'm sure that's totally not because some of the developers get salty at seeing women who look like actual women

[@justincruz5720]

Your environment does not need to be violent in order to write violent stories.

[@josedorsaith5261]

@@justincruz5720 I didn't say it needed to be

[@zeronova1484]

He Ruin Johnsoned it.

[@MerlautJones]

This is easily the most spot on video about TLoU2.

[@MRluminosity554]

Can we also stop and realize that Abby kills Joel upon hearing the name Joel. She instantly knows that this is the Joel Miller who killed her father with no explanation as to how.

[@hamsnub]

maybe its because he was with tommy and she was originally looking for tommy? but thats also acting like there cant be multiple people called tommy and joel

[@Alex-gg9ht]

Imagine if it wasn't Joel Miller but someone else with the name Joel, that would be a really cool story.

[@AndragonLea]

I've only got three problems with the game. The graphics are great, the atmosphere is amazing, the voice acting is pretty damn good and the game-play is entertaining, what I don't like: 1. How they massacred my boy Joel. Not even talking about him dying here, it's a post apocalyptic zombie theme, people die. Talking about how they broke his entire character by just making him walk into a situation with an unknown group where his people are outnumbered, have no backup, no escape route. After giving them his name. The entire first game he was a survivor first and foremost, did everything he could to make sure that if things got sour he and his will survive, but in this game he needed to die for the plot so they made him temporarily lose 95 % of his functioning brain cells. 2. How they tried to force the whole sympathy angle for Macho Madame and her crew. I get that they wanted us to feel sympathy for them for the whole "violence bad, the other people probably have puppy dogs and like dorky romance movies too" bullshit, but you don't get to just shoehorn stuff like that in. It needs time for people to like characters, especially so if the first introduction involved a golf club to the head of a character you ACTUALLY ALREADY LIKE. If they wanted that, they'd have had to make the second game all about the other group of survivors, not force-feed us "aw, look at them playing with their vicious attack dogs" and "innit cute how she's trying to save the deer instead of killing it for meat like SOME OTHER GROUP WE COULD MENTION". Not buying it, chief. 3. How Ellie sacrifices literally everything, murders her way through a small village worth of faceless mooks and force-feeds her nemesis a couple of fingers before deciding that actually, Joel wouldn't want her to kill that lady if he was here instead of leaking brains all over some floor after said lady bashed his skull in in front of Ellie, so after throwing away everything and killing a whole bunch of people who are arguably uninvolved except for being in the way of vengeance, she now lets go the only person she actually had a legitimate reason to kill. Amazing. This was just a disaster of a plot because they just HAD TO fit the whole "end the recycle of violence" bullshit into one game.

[@saturnsextilevenus]

The thing that bothers me about Joel's lack of brain cells is that people often are like ohh he was in Jackson, he got soft. Like as if that would negate like 25 years of being a smuggler who knew how the world worked, who the fireflies were fucking afraid of. Like come on, he would probably be a bit softer but he wouldn't be a fucking idiot and neither would Tommy. They were like fucking raiders for years? I just can't believe it tbh

[@AndragonLea]

@@saturnsextilevenus Yeah, that was some BS railroading if ever I've seen it. They could've shown the other group simply being better prepared and overwhelming them because you couldn't reasonably prepare for "insert insane amount of ambush prep here", but instead they walked in big, dumb and happy in complete contravention of their established character and MO because they needed to establish the CiRcLe oF vIoLeNcE. It was heavily telegraphed too. You could cut the tension with a knife and neither of them decided that this was dicey and they should probably be on their guard?

[@comraderacoon3663]

Rockstar has done this 2 times before and they worked because they made sense it makes sense why When John killed Micah for killing Arthur and that drew the pinker-tins back to John inevitably killing him

[@comraderacoon3663]

Joel just happening to mention his first name gets him killed

[@acepoisonjam2166]

I think if they wanted to use a real revenge story, you know what they should’ve done? I’d argue that instead of David being Abby’s father, they should’ve had Marlene be her mother. You know, someone who led the Fireflies and actually worked with Joel only to kill Marlene in the end after she wanted to kill Ellie for the sake of humanity. And if they wanted to spare both Abby and Ellie at the end of the story? Look at Naruto Shippuden when Naruto is trying to find Pain. What does Naruto want to do? He just wants to talk to him- no fighting, no killing, nothing. Because if they do something like this, then it shows a side that some people could see as Abby being misunderstood. But the problem is they make Abby a sadistic hypocrite and we’re supposed to like her for that

[@DrDolan2000]

The first game was the second coming of Christ This game is the sad piss Jesus took after getting forty lashings

[@paranoyd70]

Its my belief that the game was trying too hard to make Abby & Lev the main heroes, because Drunkmann wanted to completely get rid of Joel & Ellie, and so Abby and Lev were meant to be the new replacements. I'm certain that Drunkmann wanted to make LoU3 with Abbey & Lev and NOT Joel & Ellie. Just look at the dynamic between Joel & Ellie and that of Abby & Lev...they are the same. They were meant to be replacements, cause in Drunkmann's sick mind, Abs & Lev score more woke points and thus gives Drunkmann more woke clout with his friends. Its pathetic, but that's the only thing that makes any sense. Drunkmann went way out of his way to demonize Joel & Ellie, while also going way out of his way to make Abby & Lev to be the heroes. This whole story just reeks of sjw woke insanity.

[@oldworldblu3s305]

Spoilers for Vinland saga Vinland saga does this better Did you think I’d actually rune this masterpiece heck NO !!!

[@kaliferguson2232]

I was thinking the same thing

[@mozziemain8348]

This is one of the best takes I’ve seen for this game. The game wants you to feel bad for doing the exact same thing another character that the game wants you to feel bad for did. And god, that ending made me pissed. No retribution, just bullshit

[@zoisantonopoulos7999]

Another great idea on how to handle revenge is how watch dogs did it. Pierce feels like he can breath again when he kills the man responsible for the tragedy that occurred. You don't see many writers take that road when writing. Humans can be cruel and find peace after killing someone is undeniably possible . It would even fit this game because of how dark and pessimistic it is but I guess neil preferred forgiveness. Also , bioshock infinite isn't the best written story of all time but it's damn great.

[@GhostLink92]

Imagine if the Arbiter killed Master Chief in the beginning of Halo 2, for blowing up the ring. Then we play as him right after. Bungie would've caught so much shit for that back in '04.

[@treymykel]

I'm glad you said that I mean honestly the story was just like oh you guys like Joel will guess what we're going to take him away from you and we're going to make you feel bad for killing all those people in the first game and we're going to make you feel bad for killing the doctors that was trying to cure the human race and it's just unnecessary everything about the Last of Us part 2 was a trash fire of a game and I can't believe how Neil druckman and naughty dog destroyed a Golden goose like that just to get petty and just get back at us fans honestly

[@yannicmendez2559]

I really enjoyed how calmly you exposed why this Plot is straight up dumb and insulting. thanks for making all the points.

[@goldenniffler5199]

The only good thing about Abby is that Laura Bailey voices her.

[@mxed1916]

Im quite surprised that not that many people have caught the hints that the "cure" of the fireflies was actually destined to fail. It seems people want to ignore it just so they can make Joel look even worse in their shitty video essays.. I got the impresion that the idea was to leave the ending ambiguous because ND didn't have the intention of continuing this story. The power of fanboys is strong in TLoU2.

[@chozer1]

Am i supposed to belive that joel lost his survial instincs, mind you he has been out there for 20+ years but he just lost it in 4 years!? people dont change so fast, and joel is old. Old people do not just change thats basic biology the brain always retains how its been developed when you are younger.

[@Ksavputin]

I wrote this comment at dunkeys video about tlou2( i honestly dont understand what he sees in this game that everyone else dont) My problem with lou2 is that the message is portrayed somewhat slopply for example, that ellie doesn't go all the way on her revenge, even though she killed so many people for just standing in her way, so why change of heart? I believe that there is a smarter way of putting the message about revenge not amounting to anything. Here is my revision on the plot. You start as abby hunting joel and this episode ends with joels death as ussual. Then you switch to elie and her revenge story and you play as her to the end where you make a choice between killing abby or sparing her. Then you switch to abby sometime after Joel's death. During her adventure, showing how unsatisfied and regretful she is, and also showing that compared to others in terms of morality she is not the worst, and how she achieves admirable things. At the end of her journey your choice as ellie applies. Epilogue. Roll credits. Yeah, it's pretty much Dishonored with korvo and daud campaigns combined but at least itd worked much better that constant changing back and forth between emotionally charged motivations, especially since abby gets A LOT of players hate at the beginning. Why would a player associated with joel and ellie care for the self preservation of their killer? Some shmuck answered that my revision "simplifies the message" and that i need to learn empathy. Sorry to bring this here, I'm just at loss for words, and i genuinely can't comprehend why people like this story when there are dozens that do it much better.