Leaning from the feet when running is BS

Yes, there are runners who immediately understand what is meant by "you should lean forward from your feet when you run". But the instruction that sounds so logical and sensible when you stand still and demonstrate has no basis in what it looks like in reality. And don't be fooled by pictures you see of runners drawing a line from foot to head to illustrate how it should be done. Because that's only true of one or two frames of footage of the gait cycle.
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Fredrik Zillén has over the years helped thousands of runners to a more efficient running technique - from the slowest beginners to members of the Swedish national team in running and triathlon who have participated in the World Championships and the Olympics. Fredrik also writes articles on effective running technique for Runner's World magazine.
Following the success of Fredrik Zilléns online course in Swedish, he has now produced an updated and improved version in English. You can find it here: www.fredrikzil...
You find the Swedish version at: www.fredrikzil...
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Kevin, UK
"The best money I have ever spent. Great mix of humour, practical technique and theory. It’s brilliant and I have been telling all my friends about it. I’ve knocked 30 secs off my average pace to 4:30 and at 53 I’m absolutely astonished how relaxed I feel running. It’s also really helped my cycling my adapting similar techniques and visualisation. Thanks so much.
Paul, UK
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[@brentg2792]

Great point, running form is like a golf swing where so many running/golf coaches give you too many abstract cues that confuse the process of a relatively straightforward action.

[@christams8863]

You are so right about this, Fredrik! I have both watched videos and read books with the advice of leaning at my feet! When you are trying to force yourself into a "fixed lean angle," this is going to hurt your ankles! So, don't do it! I have learned my lessons the hard way! LOL!

[@RedSeaChallenger]

„Leaning from the feet when running is BS“ is BS. You know the cue, I know the cue. It helped me a lot to improve my posture, reach the next level. Remind myself after KM 30, am I bending from the waist? If you never practiced it to stand tall and fall forward until..1st step, you‘ll definitely not know what is meant by that. A reminder with a cue aiding in keeping a good posture during an entire run, even when getting tired.

[@RichardPergament]

An alternative if you want to instruct people to not bend from the waist: "don't bend from the waist"

[@Vo2maxProductions]

this is exaclty right. This guy is all about clickbait now. Wnat some real running form tutorials? Check my my channel. You want forward lead (ankle flexion) on push-off....from the ankles.

[@gengar678]

I do agree with this and find it a very useful cue for many runners. Telling them not to bend from the waist is not a cue, just like telling them to not run with bad form. Next video is ‘ run tall is BS’ since small people run very fast?

[@ebrensi]

The leaning forward from the ankles idea is good for learning how to run slowly. The photos you show are all of people running fast. A lot of people don't know how to run slowly. Being able to run slowly is necessary for anyone who wants to increase their volume. If you ran slowly with the leg extended forward like that, you would basically be speed-walking. If one is to practice actual running, but slowly, the running in place and falling forward idea works very well. Just discovered your channel and I like it. Thanks for the content!

[@Leonidas-eu9bb]

omg. this is all slow. anything below 30km/h (18.6mph) is slow!

[@mikevaldez7684]

@ebrensi, Did you not listen to this clip? You're making no sense at all. Listen to Fredrik

[@stluciestrength]

Very good point. Running slow is actually quite hard for me, at least for a long distance. Not that running fast is easy! But for:10-:20 I can at least “run “( meaning both feet moving quickly) fast (10:00 or lower pace, sometimes even sub 9:00 pace) but when I try to jog/run really slow (13:00-15:00+ pace) it’s like I’m dragging my feet, plodding. Much of which is due to very tight/weak hip flexors. Something I’m trying to work on

[@honza1859]

Great channel for those who are open minded and don't take everything as given. You dont't have to agree with everything but you will start to think about it.

[@SpringSnabbare]

Thank you for appreciating my channel! Very nice to hear, I really appreciate it. But I still have to protest a bit. It's your "you don't have to agree with everything". Most of what I say are measurable facts. You can believe that you should have a 90 degree angle in the elbow when you run. But if biomechanists from World Athletics measured the angle of the elbow joint of the best runners in the 10,000 metres and marathon at a world championship and no one has 90 degrees but a much sharper angle, you can’t say that elite runners have 90 degrees. Those are facts that you don't "agree" or "disagree" with. If the male gold, silver and bronze medallists at the 2017 World Marathon Championships all landed on their heel every time it was measured during the race and only 3% of the total number of runners put their forefoot down first at a measuring station, you can't say "you have to land on your forefoot to be a good runner". If I have done thousands of tests of runners with 3D cameras and can show a clear pattern that says that 99 out of 100 runners who lean a little too much forward (which almost all recreational runners do, especially the men) get a shorter contact time and become more energy efficient when they lean much less, it is not up for discussion if this is true. I have the numbers to back this up, unlike anyone who relies on their gut feeling or have heard how it works from a fast friend or coach. There will be exceptions, of course, and I am also clear about that in every video I make. And if someone can show me reliable studies/sources that prove me wrong, I'm more than willing to change my mind.

[@honza1859]

@@SpringSnabbare Yes, you are right. I apologize for my clumsy formulation. 🙂 Another topic - what I miss in almost all running advices on the internet is that they concern only visible "symptoms" ie how the runner should look like (move) during gait cycle (eg stay tall, don't bounce too much, ...) but they say almost nothing about "hidden forces" that causes runner to move - ie which muscle groups should work and exactly when and how intensely and in what "direction" should these muscles generate power. Example (not from running): When I am sitting on the chair and you see me rising the leg up but my toe tips are still on the ground, then the rising leg si visible "symptom" of the force I applied but you cannot tell where the force came from - the force could come from my ankle - but as well from my hips and ankle could be complete loose causing toe tip staying on the ground. Very similar question can be posed eg when drumming on the kick drum (ie by leg). Similar questions can be posed in running - to generate forward body movement should I primarily use my hips or my ankles? In what moment during my stance phase should I "push" back and should this force be constant or should it be highest and the end of motion (just before toe off), should I use during this pushing large amount of force or should I rather use "inertia" of the leg movement ("generated" before foot landing) etc.. These facts are not from the running motion "visible"...

[@DeejayNReal79]

Hi another interesting video! I found the contact time and keeping your body weight up videos very beneficial. I used to spent way too much time on the ground with every stride and wonder why I always needed the foam roller and felt totally exhausted after every run. Neil

[@EMTobias]

You did not explain what I should do.

[@perro0076]

Leaning forward at the ankles makes sense because gravity takes over which forces your body to naturally take the next step. You have to watch it though. If do this whilst just jogging, it will hurt your lower back. The amount of lean depends on the speed you're doing. The faster you go, the further the lean. The body will naturally put one foot in front of the other to stop you from falling flat on your face. In other words, you're forcing your sense of balance to be 'proactive'. You have to also watch your heel strike as obviously that would be like slamming the brakes every time your foot touches the ground. Keep your hips forward so that you make contact with a flat foot beneath the hips. Don't worry, you'll feel it when you get it right

[@natesilvers2166]

You lean forward from the ankles when beginning your run, you lean forward in mid-stance, when both feet are off the ground you don't lean foward but once the first foot hits the ground in mid-stance you are again leaning forward.

[@nattygawd6588]

@Fredrik Zillén - Running Technique Specialist Hey, I'm enjoying your content and approach to training. I quite new to running, one thing I'm struggling with is maintaining pace, I do my easy runs very easy so as to note spike my heart rate and have good control over my breathing, using diaphragm. Do you have any protocols to maintaining pace ? Any reply is welcomed , thank you in advanced to anyone who replies.

[@chilloutvibesforyou]

You have answered your own question my friend. You said you have good control over your breathing, so it may be your structural system is letting you down, i.e. your Cardio-vascular system is improving faster than your skeletal and muscular system ( which is normally the case ). So, you need to give your body time to adapt it's changes to your skeletal and muscular system ( which takes time, think, weeks, months to years ). That's what they talk about when they mention having a good running base i.e. slowly building up over a longer period of time. ps: I have been running for over 55+ years. Hope this helps you in some way and good luck!

[@-esox-3714]

@@chilloutvibesforyou Great points, I can relate a lot relating to my recently started running journey. Basically I can comfortably nose breathe during an all out Half Marathon or even a 10K until the very end, when I push until max. heart rate... Any faster Pace would not be possible to be sustained for muscle strength reasons...

[@Ian.Does.Fitness]

So I’m confused now. Where should the lean come from?

[@pendergastselim]

So what is the better answer/principle?

[@shawntwing3602]

I enjoy your humor and your good insights!

[@craptacular8282]

I was taught to lead with the solar plexus like a warrior displaying their chest. I actually find that since I have tight hip flexors from sitting all day, a better mental cue is to think of leading with my pelvis, like King Henry VIII proudly displaying his codpiece.

[@TheAtlasNoir]

I don't know why KZbin recommended this video, but I found it hilarious. I love running and I'll think about this next time I put the sneakers on.

[@sk8moto]

A lot of people have commented that Katelyn Touhy has a distinct forward lean vs other runners. Can you analyze?

[@robmyers8948]

When I lean slightly forward when running I feel a natural increase in cadence to stop me falling forward, which tends to change the run to self propelling and more relaxed. I’m not sure if it’s sustainable, I’m a new runner trying to work it out… and advice?

[@protogenoi1]

Hi there, your content is a blast of fresh air my friend, however the lean forward is the "ideal" posture and its NOT from the ankles. The "ideal posture" is from your shoulders to your hips, than as a "confirmation tool" when your leg is in the peak force it should be in in line withyour shoulders and hips to make the what you refer to the lean from the ankles. (((Practically it is the angle of the torso travelling in the air during running, but it is also true that different speeds has different optimal angles))). ANYWAY, your content is the very interesting, down to earth and a blast of fresh air.

[@adamfeerst2575]

The point of “lean from the feet” is the differentiate it from bending at the waist, which way too many runners do in general, especially when you tell them to lean forward. This video may be entertaining, but I think it entirely misses the point unlike most of your others.

[@kiffe22]

I feel like it's an "intent vs. outcome" misunderstanding. Of course you can't be able to "lean" from your ankle in most of those pictures. But most people will still understand it if given as a cue, and will learn to run more efficiently. It's like telling people to straighten their back and replying "You shouldn't straighten your back because your spine is naturally curved". Well duh. I don't want you to have straight spine, but you know exactly what I want you to do.

[@brianlamptey4823]

Well there's making sure you're kindof falling forward and there's ankle dorsiflexion with neutral hip position.

[@Swingcheckgolf]

Great explanation as always ….

[@honza1859]

When you stand, you can distinguish clearly whether you bend from the waist or from the ankle. But can I distinguish it also when I run? Of course somethimes yes - but when I apparently bend from the waist during run and suddenly I will start to put my legs more behind my body, then it starts to resemble bending from the ankle.... Anyway - does Jakob Ingebrigtsen bend from the waist or from the ankles? :-)

[@Vo2maxProductions]

it can be a little bit of both...but generally you don't want too much bend at the waist as it will cut off the diaphragm. Think more "land with my feet under my hips" and "lead with the chest"

[@knutbk]

Dispelling run form dogma pillars one by one, and I am here for it.

[@QuentinKLEau]

Can we say that the "leaning" is misleading. I mean it is a by product of good running form and not an outcome per se ? If the form is wrong and the runner forces himself into leaning, it will probably be a "mistake".

[@sigmatau8231]

omg,,,a real person thank u!!!

[@athletica2636]

The "leaning from feet" is more like to have good hip extention...strong glutes, core, open hip flexors etc....

[@SpringSnabbare]

Yes, that's exactly how it is. I never said you shouldn't lean forward, did I? What I dislike is the instruction to "lean from the feet" which sounds great when standing still but becomes an impossibility when the feet are moving. Nothing else. The leaning is about the relationship to the ground, assuming you're running on flat ground.

[@athletica2636]

@@SpringSnabbare 100% agree. There are many more bs things like that, i think you even covered 180 cadence nonsense. There are others, like having "exact" training paces, hr zones etc....Like my friend have training run in LT zone, dies after 10mins, and says that he was running LT, because he was tested lol. Surely he was above LT that day.

[@andycouldwell6507]

Maybe, Fredrik, you lean from the driving foot when it’s powering you forward against your wind resistance. I think that would answer your questions, and might not be BS. Andy

[@andycouldwell6507]

Fredrik, the answer to your question is that you have to lean the centre of mass forward of the driving foot. So that’s sorted that out. Do a new video and tell everyone. Andy

[@Sergedb74]

It could be said that the elite runners could still improve then ... if they leaned slightly forward. If I was 190 cm and weight 65 kilos I would run leaning back and still win ... remember the first guy to break the 4/min mile barrier? He nearly fell backward... lol

[@andycouldwell6507]

Frederik. Do you believe what you say, or are you just trying to wind me up to watch your videos. Maybe it doesn’t matter what you say so long as you shout and gesticulate… it gets you viewers.

[@funwithmadness]

I find that there is a LOT of "running advice" out there that lacks useful instruction.

[@SpringSnabbare]

I couldn't agree with you more.

[@davideriksson8770]

♥

[@Leonidas-eu9bb]

come on you can do this a bit more advanced. Everyone should know that such cues are for certain key positions in ones stride. The cue leaning from the ankle is really not bad because it teaches correct posture and ground contact position. Too much runners are bouncing up and down. They use too much vertical to horizontal motion. It's because they are landers. Every stride is like a landing/absorbing and pushing/jumping up again. This is a very bad/inefficient and unhealthy running pattern. Lots of vertical and braking forces. Bad for the joints especially the knees. Proper running should be hip and ankle dominant (posteiror chain). Knee extension does NOT happen. Neither active or passive. All the elite runners (even sprinters) have basically little to no quad development. This is no coincidence.

[@Vo2maxProductions]

This is terrible advice. You took picutres of people *In the air* and then questioned: "where is the forward lean from the feet?" and then tried to compare it to people actually toeing off with their feet *on the ground* (where one does actually want ankle flexion and a forward lean as demonstrated) 🤦🏻‍♂

[@SpringSnabbare]

How can this be bad advice when it's no advice at all? What I'm saying is that many runners in theory understand "leaning from the feet" when standing still but in practice they don't get it at all because the feet are constantly moving and not a fixed point to relate to. It is not an advice but an observation. I bring this up as a consolation for anyone who has heard and thought they understood "lean from the feet" but can see when they are filmed that they are not succeeding with the instruction in practice. You can't criticize me for giving bad advice if I haven't given any advice!

[@jboz24]

My understanding of “leaning from the feet or ankles” isn’t something to maintain through the stride but a way to start running and maintain good posture. The contrast to this is runners that run slightly bent at the waist which can put pressure on the lower back. Love to hear your thoughts on this…

[@DomSchiavoni]

@@SpringSnabbare I thought is was common sense that we were talking about Toe-off in The Running Gait Cycle. I suggest checking James Dunne's videos on running form for example his 'PERFECT RUNNING FORM' series. Some good nuggets in there about optimal landing of your foot beneath a flexing knee, and optimal angle of lower leg at ground contact to discourage overstriding. 'JP Gloria' also has some good videos with overlaid geometry illustrations