Leffen's OFFICIAL Rivals of Aether 2 Tier List

[@Kurozu1991]

Even fighting the most mid Kragg feels like a boss fight.

[@Slashx92]

fr

[@revelation2-9]

Literally this.

[@thecoolest0002]

I am robbed more by Kragg mains than any other character

[@abbadon6441]

parry skill check

[@revelation2-9]

@@abbadon6441 Tell that to the Master rank pros.

[@EeleyeDD]

As a Lox main that only just started a couple of days ago: While he feels bad when he's getting comboed, he feels like the best non-pm heavy to ever exist in a platform fighter that is still playing the game (IDK what game Kragg is playing but it's not this one)

[@revelation2-9]

Kragg is on a different level of existence. Absurdly strong character.

[@XastherReeD]

I appreciate that the Kragg segment is a rant. Because that is how it feels playing against a Kragg.

[@rynnyryn93]

OK but trust me when i say R1 players have been delusional about Kragg even since before R2. They downplayed him in R1 too despite him crowding out the game's final top 8s. Kragg has always been this easymode powerhouse that doesn't stack up "on paper" but has all the tools a human needs to confound another human consistently. R2 players downplay Kragg because they always have, Kragg is a meme like Ganondorf to rivals players despite his insane kit so to claim he's OP is to insist you're losing to a meme character, and when half the playerbase plays him of course they're all going to be in on it. This is the first time a large group of players have come in at the same time to witness the the slow, steady, and inevitable carcinization of the rivals playerbase from the outside and have been able to react to it in a group, a resounding "what the HELL is happening in your game?" and I'm hoping it's finally loud enough to make Kragg honest because adjustments to this character have never fixed the fact that he can noob tube his way to masters.

[@Umbreonsocks]

real as fuck

[@TotshotAirsoft]

He needs it

[@Eskimolz]

Kragg's existence makes Rivals a worse game. He needs major nerfs to bring him into balance with the rest of the cast. I don't think he's the best character but you have to be a pro at the game to have any chance at winning...

[@Kazyek]

I've been saying that about Maypul since Rivals 2 launch! Maypul was SO nerfed in Rivals 2, and the speed was more valuable in Rivals 1 where there wasn't any blocking, but with blocking, the speed is not enough of an adventage

[@darklurkerirl6101]

Kragg is the most overpowered heavy in the history of PF genre. His fanbase : BRO ITS A PARRY CHECK BRO BROOOOO

[@justanothermanontheinternet]

I play Clairen and I’m sitting at low gold and I consistently get whiff punished for jab, tilts, or rising aerials. Obviously at top level the game is very different but it’s not like top players have less endlag in rising fair than I do. That orcane, ranno, maypul, Zetter DA is still whiff punishing Clairen trying to control space with her moves. She also has poor safety on shield except for bair, so any move she does spaced poorly gets punished. My current frustration is that if I try to control space with my big moves I get whiff punished and if I try to approach I get stuffed out from better frame data or OOS options. Her OOS game is also ass, bair is her fastest option and it’s limited and slow. So orcane jabbing or tilting my shield gets to do whatever and I have to roll, jump or commit to parry. To be clear, I think Clairen is super strong, very lenient confirms and if you get the right setup she kills at 70-90. But she also struggles to kill off stray hits. I’ll play a Kragg and take stocks at 200+ cause I missed my confirm window. Also, your opp gets to have perfect DI on every tipper move, so follow-ups aren’t every spoon fed if your opp is DIing properly. I’m not saying she isnt strong af, but saying she has no weaknesses is crazy if I’m seeing counterplay for the “just throw out moves” strat at low gold. I’m shit and my opp are shit and even they can whiffpunish and DI properly.

[@menendez4004]

Thank you! Clairen has more landing lag than Lox on some aerials, plus, no actual combo starters to throw on neutral, plus a botom 3 reccoverie, yet people act like she is top 5, she is NOT

[@tidalwaffles]

She's the caharcter that can be the most whiff punished in my experience.

[@JumbaJumby]

The perfect DI thing is definitely very real. The plus is she gets 10 years to prepare for her followup. The minus is the opponent gets 10 years to fix their DI. You just straight up don't get bad DI early kills as Clairen. Like you'll never get a situation like Kragg fair catching someone's dashback and killing them at 70 from bad DI. Ironically sometimes it takes missing the tipper on your fsmash to get the kill because the tipper version is always perfectly DI'd. She's extremely powerful, but can be very inconsistent if you're not on point.

[@Keyourasa]

the thing is for every weakness she has 4 strengths. its insane to have a guaranteed kill with grab fsmash at like 90 on some characters/stages

[@RamonaPD]

That’s because you are low rank and probably not playing her well. This is not a tier list for low ranked players

[@squidmcbumbleberry2766]

I actually can not take the kragg placement seriously. Kragg hard loses to fleet and wrastor, has a terrible match against maple and ranno and is basically even with every other character except lox which is a winning matchup. If you look at the Dont park on the grass placements there is like 1 kragg in the top 32 compared to the like 12 fleets and rannos. Also complaining about the pillar is the silliest thing ever it makes him so incredibly vulnerable its hilarious.

[@ADayInTheLab]

Finally, someone who knows what they’re talking about.

[@elpelpelpe]

With each passing day, the more I agree with you on the Maypul placement

[@Himadpeoples]

​@@612minigunI've seen people saying that removing tether up air was unintentional and getting changed back in the first balance patch. Not sure if there's any basis for that claim

[@1midman]

Maypul player btw

[@hoodbooger]

Top maypul player downplaying! Typical!

[@WTH1music]

You cant seriously believe she is below lox. Cmon now.

[@ADayInTheLab]

Glad we are all here.

[@James-ek3mb]

shout out to toph for keeping my eyes locked on the twitch chat scroll

[@thomastwin1152]

Preciate you keeping it well leffen. Love the tier list.

[@ZachStarAttack]

thanks for playing zetter. I really appreciate that I can use you to look at for help

[@colinhay1666]

Seems like Forsburn has trouble placing smoke as well, which weakens his neutral, recovery, pressure, punish when empowered etc.

[@Casino220]

smoke is cleared so easy and has to stick around so long before it starts doing anything that you just can't anything out of it half the time. Some characters gimmicks are basically free damage or speed, but one of the slowest characters with the least spammable moves has to wait half a stock to get a fake 50/50 out of obscuring half the stage

[@masonmcfarlane9991]

So happy someone realizes how busted Kragg is

[@masonmcfarlane9991]

@ I’ll take what I can get lol

[@IanZWhite00]

59:46 When the European in you takes over

[@justanothermanontheinternet]

Also, to clarify, tipper does break CC, but it limits follow ups by a lot. For example, jab does not pop up enough to confirm off of at low to mid percents if the OPP is holding down even though it doesnt truly CC the move.

[@noahb3881]

The Kragg rant did not disappoint

[@DineAuZor]

What could be interesting is seeing some games with you playing every character (except Clairen). I watched you play Forsburn, Orcane, Wrastor and Ranno but not the others

[@drewtrafelet8840]

Quick psa on Maypul you can b-reverse her side-b as a combo starter, it's borderline essential to do any punishes. Also Maypul combo game is nuts, but she's just such a genuinely weird character to get good at.

[@bugliker1]

You can cc that too, even out of wrap

[@drewtrafelet8840]

@@bugliker1 Really even out of wrap? Well damn

[@ae304]

crazy this tier list is exactly what my experience playing has been and a major reason I don't love the game is that the top 3 are dishonest and either campy or button mashy The clairen points just had me nodding my head. Character can just stand still and mash and then confirm for free on tipper

[@Slashx92]

kragg literally makes me not want to play ranked They having the worst fundamentals is so true also. The most stationary players are kraggs by far, compared to any other players in my elo. Spamming broken shit and never dying for free

[@NeedelsSmash]

Thank you for talking about clairen, the underplay on her is insane. She ignores cc and has no lag as a swordie and shield grabs you into 50/50 for your life at 60

[@liamdoesmath2106]

The devs made Kragg broken because they knew I’d be 300 stone rank if he wasn’t

[@Trekiros]

Orcane's the only one that made me raise an eyebrow, but I play Lox so it might color my judgment The rest is spot on

[@LightningMcMurphy]

In what world are yall fighting more Kraggs than Rannos?

[@BiggerK]

Petition to give Kragg endlag

[@Crowliflower88]

Yoooo, Leffen! I always hated you, but I loved to hate you. You were like my favorite villain of the smash community. But you're an amazing player and I respect you and your drive.

[@Masaru_kun]

i actually noticed this Kragg on ranked wasn't wavedashing and he still cheesed me... kragg = donkey kong + steve

[@lassehuusmannknfler3524]

Yoo Big leff. Wanna give us an early zetterburn combo guide?

[@VanHalenfreak9]

great vid! I'm a decently successful smash ultimate player that is sucking at this game hard. it's a lot to learn, and although I was originally extremely drawn to orcane, I'm feeling a couple weeks in like learning the engine while simultaneously learning a pretty idiosyncratic character is becoming inefficient, and even building some poor habits that encourage me to focus on his tricks rather than just learning the engine the best I can. that all to say, I'd love a lower level tier list.

[@Keyourasa]

i think one thing that really sucks ass rn too is the low execution barrier for some characters but not others. orcane and fors are so fucking hard to do anything well. then theres zetter lox and kragg clairen who im fairly sure a monkey could pick up and top 8 every major. it really feels frustrating to play anything but a top tier rn

[@stulls]

Skill issue. Everyone is top tier in this game

[@Keyourasa]

@@stulls i mean even if thats true not my point in the slightest. some character do have harder tech than others clairen has virtually no skill or tech and doesnt really benefit majorly from using universal tech. zetter has the minimum skill floor for a spacie which really is just wavedashing. vs orcane and maypul u NEED to baby dash u need to ledge cancel with orcane u have to moonwalk etc etc. some characters have it easier than others

[@stulls]

@@Keyourasa I'll admit i was a little crass but i was moreso responding to your comment about top tiers. I just don't really think people should be putting anyone outside of S tier in this game because it reinforces "it's my character, not me" thoughts. Also the tech in this game really isn't that hard comparatively. You can learn pretty much any tech in like less than an hour of practice. If you're comparing to smash ultimate sure but that game is super baby also

[@_Majunior]

That's literally any fighting game. No game will have even execution for every character

[@Keyourasa]

@@_Majunior the difference is execution is typically balanced by power. harder characters are typically in theory better. fox in melee is prime example of this

[@ItsAK9]

I don't even fully agree with the list, but you straight up SPITTING about LOX, SPITTING about KRAGG, and SPITTING about CLAIREN. The downplaying is a TOO lil crazy

[@Xearrik]

I'm glad people are finally saying what I've been saying since beta weekends. He's so insanely busted. Rivals 1 players are liars. There's a Kragg tier above top tier. I mean his recovery alone should be 90% of a characters power budget. Why does it refresh all his resources except for his up special?! And it shouldn't slow fall. It should break faster than a Steve block, and you should still go into free fall if it breaks while your on it. And you should be able to only land on it one extra time without it breaking. Then MAYBE it would be balanced. And I don't even see Kraggs being super tactical with walls yet. And why can he cancel his side b into YET ANOTHER JUMP. He has infinite jumps off stage... Why does he need another?! And if he can't make a wall, he shouldn't get a little jump out of is up special. He should just be done! He doesn't deserve any of that. He's so over tuned. Then he has the best projectile in the game. The best forward air. A down throw cargo throw. Insane disjoints. A smash attack that KO's at like 30%. Insane grabs. Heavy as heck. So easy to floor hug and destroy someones life. Insane damage output.

[@Xearrik]

@@612minigun I'm willing to believe it. His kit is just insane. I feel like I'm taking a crazy pill when I think about how his up special works, and people tell me it's balanced because you can just hit it and he'll go into free fall. People can just hit Steve's blocks too. And Kragg has a waaaaay better disadvantage then Steve and his blocks.

[@trihyden3022]

​@@XearrikIf you think Kragg is a menace, you just arent playing against him right. He is one of the easiest to edge guard, his recovery is pretty linear so you can counter him. That fucking Elephant is a different story

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

As someone that's been playing rivals since 2015 and has been running rivals 2 events all summer. No kragg isn't that good. You're just going through what we all went through. You're learning how to fight against kragg. lol.

[@trihyden3022]

@@Jarekthegamingdragon We all gotta go through the Kragg phase 😂

[@Slashx92]

fr the most mid kragg is a pain to kill

[@bugliker1]

Everyone i see who fights maypul never holds down, they just let themselves get hit by the wrap combos.

[@JumbaJumby]

I don't disagree with anything Leffen said about Clairen, but I do wonder if his opinion will change at all once he actually plays her. She ranges from a golden god to Marthritis incarnate lol.

[@Dereck-p5u]

We need some nerfs and bufs

[@kkokay4]

Btw i guess leff didnt see that tourney where sinbad dominated and got first place, and elpe got 3rd? With maypul. I would say that puts maypul results as super good. Honestly zetter has some of the worst results despite being a pm wolf clone. His results should be insane this early into the game since hes pretty much already solved

[@samuelamity8971]

Marlon says hold my beer on the Orcane take

[@BluuSkyz]

Kragg strait busted. You can literally win gold matches spamming forward air lol.

[@Plastic_Kong]

Damn always thought he was aight. But when the kragg knew the gimmicks my ass got stomped.

[@Kiba114]

kraggs grab range is also stupid

[@PuraCaseus]

if you go and watch his grab range in rivals frame data, you'l see that its by far the worst grab hitbox in the game in comparison to character size. Then check loxodont in comparison, its twice as big lol. Kragg dash grab is also pathetic. Not to downplay kragg or anything, he's top 4 at the very least, but the grab range is shit.

[@Kiba114]

@@PuraCaseus it doesent matter what it is to his model, he can grab moves he shouldnt be able to, same for lox. you are not helping your case by mentioning the other stupid grab char.

[@PuraCaseus]

@@Kiba114 by that logic it doesn't matter what his backair is compared to his model. You absolute clown, stay bronze.

[@Not_Astrocat]

I agree on Forburn but only because I play him and want him buffed lmao

[@DarktoneX]

THIS IS THE MOST ACCURATE TIER LIST CURRENTLY

[@kkokay4]

Personally idk if kragg is the best, but he is def the best for how easy he is. Second easiest next to lox, but sooo much better with far fewer flaws

[@tokiohotelrulz1]

I wish leffen still played melee

[@paulkersey3042]

You've convinced me to quit Kragg. I'm one of those people with a lack of faith in their own abilities and purposefully avoids toptiers to avoid the "Carried by Character" accusations. Kragg sounding cracked, maybe play Lox or Orcane instead.

[@revelation2-9]

Play Lox and get respect by every other person. I don't main Lox but playing him for fun and playing against him is just so much fun.

[@myles7978]

do not listen to this guy, lox is miserable to play against lol

[@_ERR_404_]

just because kragg is easy and the game hasn't been out for more than two months doesnt mean that kragg is broken. he very much struggles with mid range zoning, and is very hard to win with once your oppenent realized that maybe they don't need to be in your face 24/7

[@revelation2-9]

@@myles7978 Really? My friend mains Lox and I find fighting him fun, but maybe I've been desensitized against playing him. I honestly would rather fight him over the likes of Kragg, Fleet, or Clairen the former of which is legitimately brain rot.

[@williamw8590]

I like the list a lot, but I think you're underplaying fleets low weight. She gets to avoid dying off stage but she also dies so so early to any read or kill confirm. Pretty consistently fleets have to do a lot more damage than their opponents or get an early edgeguard kill to win.

[@alfonshedstrom9859]

Fleets floatiness and light weight makes her literally explode from Clairens grab combos, with and without spummel. Honestly what stops Fleet is mainly the Clairen matchup being doodoo when 90% of people play Clairen in ranked

[@williamw8590]

@@alfonshedstrom9859 yeah, she has a really good kragg MU but it's not as good as the clairen matchup is bad LOL

[@MagicIncantation]

Nice work. Hope you win Evo

[@sqpenn]

Kraag section being 20 min is hilarious

[@Sora-GrandCross]

love you leff

[@Cerbyo]

why doesnt leffen play his top tier picks anymore? he did in smash. he swaps when his pick goes bottom like zato. so why not do it again

[@fadeixi4212]

you can combo the shit out of kragg though, clairens combos are easier, her attack hitboxes are too big and last forever

[@Rhyme_Time]

#1 by one elo is funny as hell lmao

[@szion72]

maypul carried me to diamond, im not hearing this D tier nonsense.

[@jesusibanez4541]

I luv you

[@strabisamuslestrabisamus2396]

Lmao the krag rant is rhe best

[@bdestlostworn3603]

algorithm

[@thtguyericcc1811]

Krag is disgusting

[@juanchol21]

lmao

[@hugodecroix294]

I think the tier list will age badly because of the d tier

[@punkypony5165]

Lets fucking goooo

[@jtshmo]

Forsburn being worst is a crime

[@smithclaxton3357]

Oof

[@ShadowMikku]

I flip flop between completely/moderately agreeing with Leffen and thinking the man is on crack watching this. Like I was pulling my hair out agreeing on the Clairen bullshit, but seeing that he's trying to say KRAGG of all character is the best? Like Leffen, what are you smoking and can I have some?

[@revelation2-9]

Where was he wrong? Kragg is both easy and has insane frame data. Bare minimum top 3 in the game.

[@Keyourasa]

the i think only even remotely questionable thing is ranno not being on the same lvl as kragg

[@Slashx92]

How is he not the best. Broken recovery, broken disjoints and framedata, fast movement, everything just works. What else do you want from a character?

[@ShadowMikku]

@@Slashx92 how about him actually having any of those things? Like you people are fucking insane, XD his recovery is insanely gimpable by even basic players, Leffen showed his one and only actual disjointed move(If you really wanna call his down B disjoint, I guess go ahead but I'd consider it more of a projectile), most of his shit just extends his hurtbox asking most other characters to do hyper safe trades(and for being one of the only two heavies, his hitboxes feel criminal), he has so much lag and startup on everything but jab and d-tilt. And the fuck you mean fast movement? Like yeah I'll agree Kragg is simple, but that doesn't make him Great. Even Leffen put wrastor like 3rd best(which I actually do totally agree with, granted I'd argue maybe second,) and fuck all people on those lists he brought up of top players played him so saying he's easy doesn't mean shit. He also said orcane is C tier which is wild to me but I give him the benefit of the doubt since he literally said he was a big ? for him. Maypul, Kragg, and Oracne are my only real placement hangups. I'd swap Orcane and Kragg and just move Maypul up to B. Granted all of this still being held under the "Everyone in Rivals 2 is good and can win" flag. Probably wasting my time being the random nobody trying to talk in the comment section of a long time pro, but I still think anyone who complains about Kragg or says he's the best is crazy.

[@revelation2-9]

@@Keyourasa I think Ranno might get better over time, but I think he has to rely a bit more on tech chasing and fundamentals compared to a few other top/high tiers.

[@jacksons9546]

I ❤️ Kragg

[@revelation2-9]

10 years in gulag.