Ahmaud Arbery: A “Citizen’s Arrest” Gone Wrong? (LegalEagle’s Real Law Review)

[@LegalEagle]

📺What should I cover next? 📚Get 2 months of unlimited learning on Skillshare for FREE: skl.sh/legaleagle27

[@GadZip]

Can you review Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom? I think it breaks lots of laws lol

[@dinos27a22]

Cover KZbin challenges which brake the law

[@pierrestan1907]

you should review the family guy episode “12 and a half angry men”. It’s about Adam West’s murder trial.

[@TheEddieslayer1]

Harvey Birdman

[@CompleteGodel]

@@dinos27a22 I second this

[@corwin32]

“Stop! Stop! We want to talk to you!” said the two men carrying guns and pursuing the victim (on foot) in a truck. I wouldn’t have stopped, either Edit: for those saying “Why did he attack? Why didn’t he try to escape?”. Preliminary autopsy results show _he was hit by a truck_ prior to being shot.

[@robcochran6213]

Nobody would have

[@KMC5240]

Exactly. You're not the police, I don't know you, and I have no clue what your true motives are.

[@insertwittynamehere_]

Exactly! I would have continued to run and when you block my way/attack I am fighting for my life or a way to escape.

[@FirstIsa]

Pursed him multiple times since he went around them the first two times they tried to block him.

[@brabbit330]

Super JLK He did run away and they continued to chase him. Weren’t you paying attention?

[@Maximise07]

"I confronted a stranger by shouting at him and pointing a shotgun at his face, then suddenly the man panicked for no reason! So I had to shoot him in self defence."

[@aspiringscientificjournali1505]

Yes an exaggerated version but accurate version of this case

[@_Historia_Magistra_Vitae]

@Tim: Except they didn't point a gun at his face though. At the end of the day, normal people would either raise their hands up since it ain't worth dying over some BS or run fast the opposite direction ... but nope, not Arbery.

[@frankcooke1692]

@@_Historia_Magistra_Vitae You can't run away from a gun, idiot.

[@wuramkesvfx]

That’s a perfect summary.

[@wuramkesvfx]

Çerastes when someone points a gun at you please let us know what you do.

[@nottiification]

"See that guy thats running away? Im going to get in my truck and chase him down so i can defend myself from him!"

[@dandylionsloth446]

+

[@thedarkdragon1437]

People in a nutshell

[@highjix]

I think that is the best description of this that I have heard yet.

[@mikelxanadu]

This needs more likes. This could be the prosecution’s opening statement.

[@shorgoth]

it lacks the "with a shotgun"

[@richarddavis3980]

Coming at you in 2021 in November the jury deliberated and found that all three of the defendants in this case were guilty of felony murder. Justice has been served.

[@dodaprettygirlrock]

Algorithm got us back here

[@Classicalliberal85]

Not sure about the involvement of the man who recorded the thing though.

[@richarddavis3980]

@@Classicalliberal85 if you listen to the trial and watched it and I mean all of it which I did you'll disagree with that statement. He was way more interested in helping the The shooters after the shooting had taken place he was trying to advocate for them and say they did nothing wrong. If he really was a spectator who wanted to video it for purposes of justice he shouldn't advocate for the innocence of the men who killed him.

[@Classicalliberal85]

@@richarddavis3980 justifying what they did does not constitute felony murder

[@richarddavis3980]

@@Classicalliberal85 Yes but lying to the cops about what really happened means that he was assisting in the actions of the McMichaels. And from what I can see he didn't tell the truth about what happened therefore he was party to the felony murder by simply trying to prevent the police from arresting the McMichaels.

[@dmac7128]

A disturbing aspect of this "Stand your ground defense" is that it rests on the presumption that Arbery had no right of self defense when he was pursued by and cornered by two strangers in a truck who pointed guns at him. They have no defense for what they did. It was murder.

[@rrfields65]

You and everyone else here will find out different!!!

[@ManicPandaz]

@Роберт Фиэлдьс RRFIELDS65 Are you a Russian bot?

[@sdaniaal]

Actual trash, these hillbillys runniung after anything with a gun in their hands. What gives them the right to stop him?

[@Zampther]

Stand your ground only applies to armed white people running after unarmed black people.

[@marisalucian9490]

I got in the same argument with someone over the Trayvon Martin case. When I reminded her that he was a 17 year be old being pursued by an adult with a firearm, I asked her how she would feeling I was the one who had been shot trying to defend myself. Some people just aren't good at putting themselves in other people's shoes until you force them to.

[@alexkoder1982]

Biggest BS is the whole "He should have listened and complied with orders". Seriously these are guys in a pickup, armed with a gun pointed at you, and neither was law enforcement. The guy likely felt he was going to be killed, or kidnapped and then killed.

[@antonyduhamel1166]

And, lo and behold, he was killed. I hope that father and son spend the rest of their days in jail. Bryan didn't do anything wrong though.

[@JoshTyrReece]

Yes exactly. If two (or three) random dudes with guns cut my way off, then the last thing I would guess is that these people are the good guys. More likely I will be shot or end up in a trunk. They are some random guys that are pointing guns at me, I don't know who they are. And they don't look like cops.

[@wfjhDUI]

@@beyondalpha1072 That first clip is from the exact video shown in full at 3:09. The rest is irrelevant.

[@xzzx4664]

It is footage on the internet when ahmaud is getting searched by the cops and is being aggressive to the officers. And in what world do you charge at a man with an fking shotgun and start punching him? This is pure suicide. If he would just complied and gone to the police, all of this drama wouldn't have happened.

[@sciencewizard8805]

I tried to imagine being that guy, and as a white male, I'd think the guys in the truck were dangerous criminals. If I were black, I would probably guess some old racist white men. Perhaps Arbery did physically attack one of them when they tried to hold him there; I still don't think deadly force was ever justified here. Charging 2 pick up trucks at a pedestrian while armed and yelling at him to stop sounds about as dangerous as a bank robbery. I have known an old guy that got very gun happy; hoping to unofficially enforce the border in Arizona I think (seriously moved there, no family). I find this self policing, especially armed with deadly force, to be completely unacceptable. Edit: spacing

[@lynpotter6471]

Imagine how often stuff like this has flown under the radar. The only reason this case is moving is because they were dumb enough to film it and then release it to the world via a radio jockey they just happened to be well connected enough to know. The stars had to align just to give Arbery a chance at justice.

[@sdaniaal]

"Oh you just planned out and commited hate crime? No worries we'll be back in 2 months to give you a slap on the wrist! Just enjoy the beautiful state of georgia's bounties till that time y'all"

[@J_Lynn]

Murders are solved less often than TV would have you believe. Especially random shit like this where the murderers had no relation to the victim and no reason to harm them. It's sad... so many families out there that will never have closure.

[@Walawalacookie]

I'm hoping that their defense of stand your ground gets laughed out of court. Like it should have been in Florida with young Mr. Martin. This one sided "Justice" shit has got to stop.

[@bryan0x05]

@@Walawalacookie The stand your ground thing is controversial for a reason, the other guy, who got shot and killed were most likely threaten and just didn't have a gun on them. The shooting at a gas station where a white man was very aggressive towards a black's man wife and the black man pushes him down and steps away only to get shot. That guy got let off on stand your guard but he had, no chance if the guy wanted to harm him, he was already on the ground before he could've drawn his gun. He was only able to do because the guy backed off.

[@tonedeafduck4859]

@@Walawalacookie There's no indication that stand your ground would be used as a defense. You're as confused as the poster of the above video.

[@jimlawson7789]

If anyone says “he should have gone with the men willingly”. Remember Emett Till. “Do not get in the vehicle” says law enforcement. The legal team that dismissed this should be prosecuted for aiding after a crime.

[@blmtrejureydepourtment5899]

They weren't trying to abduct him dumbass they just wanted him to stop running and report to law enforcement because he fled the scene of a crime

[@m.degroot6837]

@@blmtrejureydepourtment5899 Yeah you're right. these nice armed gentlemen just wanted to have a civilized conversation and he had the audacity of running.

[@blmtrejureydepourtment5899]

@@m.degroot6837 thats EXACTLY what they were doing, you expect them to try to arrest a fleeing suspect WITHOUT guns??? Dont attack men with guns, what was he gonna do, take the gun and kill em? How about just stand tall prove your case to the cops and then sue them afterwards instead of going all "Braveheart"

[@jakewoods2935]

@@blmtrejureydepourtment5899 You cant sit here and say its okay to run down a black man on the street and kill him. I feel sorry for you boss I hope you get better.

[@dasdesu5179]

@@blmtrejureydepourtment5899 I can already tell you're biased by the way you describe the situation. The victim did not flee "from the scene of a crime" as you put it because he did nothing but just look at a construction site and then continued with his run. In the victim's perspective, he was just jogging and minding his own business when he was cut off by some random people in a truck and told to stop. You might craw and haw all you want that he should have stopped and did what they said but we all know that to do so would have been stupid as heck. The victim did everything he could to flee from what he justifiably thought were people who were out to get him, only to be cut off and cornered by people with trucks and guns. By the end you can see how he was trapped between his two pursuers. At that point there was no choice but to go for the gun. The victim couldn't run anymore; either they would chase him down some more or shoot him in the back, so he went for the only option he had.

[@Natalie-101]

Even my dad, who's pretty right wing, and extremely pro-gun always says "you never shoot someone running AWAY from your house unless they're carrying your child. there's nothing I own more important than that person's life" it makes me want to vomit that someone would ever think the opposite and act on it so maliciously

[@naomicarter354]

Damnnn, thank you for including the "unless they're carrying your child" part. The advice alone brings a surge of emotions, and that addition makes it even more turbulent and thereby more memorable. 100% including that part whenever the full statement needs to be said.

[@michaelmcdoesntexist8350]

I would raise an exception that if they were carrying my pet i would probably take a shot.

[@JotaroKujo-nj4bx]

@charlie chaplin ……….you lack brain cells if you think a colored person wouldn’t react highly defensively when two white overweight guys with guns jump out of a pickup truck after pulling up ahead of you to cut you off (and potentially having already rammed you with their truck based off autopsy reports) then proceed to try to intimidate you while continuing to grip their weapons

[@att6484]

@charlie chaplin if someone was pointing a gun at you and you were scared, it’s perfectly reasonable to go for the gun. It’s fight or flight.

[@QuarkYT]

@charlie chaplin He was being chased in a truck by two armed men, then one jumps out of the truck WITH a SHOTGUN in hand, do you expect him to do nothing? Anyone in their right mind would fight for their life. These two trigger happy fuckheads arent law enforcement. They should have called the police if they had suspicions. They are malicious murderers.

[@llywyllngryffyn8053]

It seems petty cut and dry to me. For two private citizens to take up arms and pursue another private citizen and confront them with loaded, drawn, firearms shows a clear intent to commit violence. This is georgia, so it looks like a lynching but from a legal standpoint it was the victim who had a clear and justifiable feeling of imminent danger and was there fore defending himself. The McMichaels ran down and assaulted someone and then killed him when he tried to defend himself. Geg's former police training doesn't forgive what he did, it makes it worse because as a retired law enforcer, he should have known better.

[@aarien_of_aurolyth]

He did know better. He knew that as a former member of the force, he was basically untouchable. Cops do not go after their own, current or retired unless absolutely forced to. If he hadn't been stupid enough to leak that video, nothing more would have come of it. The worst part about it all, is they'll still walk. The jury won't convict, if it ever goes to trial at all.

[@wordforger]

No kidding. If it's true he was police trained, they should throw the book at him. He should know better.

[@vocs75]

The police training probably didn't help really. Police are taught that brandishing is ok and any action towards you while you are brandishing is an excuse for deadly force self defense. It's a pretty messed up system/thought train.

[@tonedeafduck4859]

Play pretend the CA law doesn't exist. The jury won't.

[@jimwheeler6094]

@@tonedeafduck4859, the McMichaels didn't posess the prerequisite knowledge of a felony committed by Anmaud Arbery in order to conduct a citizen's arrest.

[@Authorsuzannemeadows]

I've walked into an empty construction site during a walk before. I was curious. I like seeing how houses are built. In the surveillance, if that was him, he clearly wasn't looking to steal anything. He had no way to carry anything, and was not appearing to search. He was merely appearing to look around curiously. I have done that exact same thing before. This man was out for a jog.

[@uriahheep5665]

Not much of a looter or thief if he doesn't have a gun. All the bad guys have those right?

[@CaballusKnight]

I agree that it looks like he was there by curiosity but even if he would steal every last penny from the whole town you don't go vigilante, chase him in a truck and hunt him down with rifles. This was a hate crime, an execution, a cold-blooded murder in plain sight that sounds very much like kkk, it had everything to do with the color of his skin.

[@Authorsuzannemeadows]

@@CaballusKnight We agree.

[@inyoface05]

"Perfect, Now I can carry all of this equipment off, with my bare hands, in the middle of the day, with dozens of people in their houses or out driving. This plan is fool-proof." Seriously, how does one even try stealing something in that scenario.

[@donnamoydenton6156]

and even if he stole something... still doesn't give them the right to chase him down like that

[@valentinewiggin7782]

Imagine "defending yourself" from some guy by driving up to him as he's running away and then shooting him. WTF?

[@TomGibson.]

It's blatant murder, these guys should get a life sentence

[@pHixiq]

@@TomGibson. facts there’s no other way around it

[@Kris2005isMine]

Shouldn't your name be Demosthenes?

[@godzilla928]

@@TomGibson. that's what they got

[@privpi]

I don't know what you mean. Hubting someone down is perfectly reasonable self defense

[@rebekahjo1234]

I love hearing someone finally say that past criminal history shouldn't come into play in this. I hate the "they had a criminal record" defense that I've seen so many people use to defend this kind of stuff. It doesn't matter. If there was no evidence to suggest that the person was committing a crime at that time then you have no reason to go after them.

[@nR00R]

But hE wAs a tHug! Just look at him

[@JotaroKujo-nj4bx]

I shot a mother of 2 walking her children home from school the other day Nah nah don’t worry, she had a *history* of petty theft, drug abuse (marijuana, the worst of them all smh), and solicitation lol We good, justice has been served

[@thesun5275]

Reminds me how people used that for George Floyd.

[@jimhaney6384]

Even if there is evidence, you shouldn't chase somebody down and make some vigilanty justice. If someone is trying to break into your neighbors house, you grab the phone not the gun. If someone is trying to break into your house, with you inside, you grab the phone and the gun. Self defense is for those that don't seek to harm others, it's to stop harm to yourself. Putting yourself In harms way to stop a nonviolent, or not actively violent, or retreating criminal is reckless endangerment (of yourself) and assault.

[@DaHuntsman1]

Mainly i just point out the fact "even if he does have a criminal record, did the McMichael's know that? likely no"

[@brendanb5780]

When I was in the Navy, there was a string of burglaries in our neighborhood, (our house was one of the houses broken into). One night, shortly after, my roommate stepped outside to have a smoke and he yelled "he's in our yard!". I grabbed a shotgun and headed to the door the roommate yelled "he left the yard and is running across the neighbor's yard". so, I tossed the shotgun in the living room and ran out of the house with just a flashlight. I figured, what right do I have chasing someone around the neighborhood with a gun? and even if I had the right, is it prudent to do so? I was 22. How is it that a 64 year old ex-cop and his 34 year old son, failed to exercise this same judgement?

[@copo2835]

Honestly, it is your typical southern "good ol' boy" bs. He knew he was wrong, but figured his connections would keep him covered. Luckily, he was wrong. Im ex-army, and white, and i carry regularly. I would never do something like this.

[@ritariza2835]

The 3 stooges probably thought they were about to be applauded as heroes. I expect nothing less from Captain confederate and the birdbrain brigade. And you make an excellent point-- i've seen people excusing the mcmicheal's behavior by saying that they "didn't know". But Greg was an ex-officer, surely he would have known better than any of us that his actions were horrific and unlawful?

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

@@copo2835 i'm also ex-army, and white, but i live in an area where carry is effectively prohibited, and i like it that way. i trust myself with a firearm, but there's a lot of americans i don't trust with firearms. the second amendment is for the national guard, and for rural activities, such as hunting and animal control. it's not for playing hero in a residential neighborhood.

[@jackcoleman1784]

@@sirmoonslosthismind It's actually for the purpose of militia activity. I'm actually agreeing with you on people running around with firearms but it isn't just for hunting and rural activities it's just that almost noone is in a militia anymore when most males over a certain age were in a local militia at the time the second amendment was written. Militia contributed in a large way to the revolutionary war and the second amendment is essentially a theoretical acknowledgement of that and the immediate necessity of a militia at the time. Just my opinion but if people carried through a local militia movement , trained through a local militia movement, and the militia was held to standard and regulated it would actually be a lot safer then all the good ol boy yokels running around with shotguns in the back of their truck. Carry with your militia not when you go to the post office. It's an absolute travesty that the militia movement in America was infiltrated by racists and the ultra radical right in my opinion.

[@DaDunge]

Difference is military actually receives training police don't.

[@Ko6i]

"If he's running he's guilty." logic level: dog

[@elmauridelverde]

Born to kill vietcon deduction

[@steffanhymer1285]

can confirm. my dogs once bit a cable guy coming to my home to work on the lines because he walked into the back yard to do his stuff without telling anyone in the house he was there. he rounded the corner, saw the dogs, and ran. they bit him in the ass as he made it through the gate, then rang the door bell and apologized to us for not making sure we knew he was here and everything would be safe. My boys were the sweetest dogs you ever knew, but he was a stranger in their yard and he ran. instant attack mode activated. so now we know. the McMichaels are nothing better than southern dogs.

[@ArcaneFuror]

honestly with how long wide access to information has been now, I'm surprised common practices in regards to how to behave around animals arent understood. You never turn and run away from an animal that has become alerted to your presence, most of the ones that'll bother you will go straight into a predator/prey relationship from that. Plus, you'll be very unlikely to outrun said animals. But yeah, also who tf doesn't alert the owners to his presence? Lots of bad decisions there. Glad the cable guy took it in stride though.

[@khit007]

I know and like you can't tell the difference between a criminal hauling ass away from the scene of a crime and a civilizian out for a casual jog....

[@charlescalthrop2535]

I’m glad that here in Singapore, I can be confident that I won’t be shot dead for going for a jog, if I chose to do so. People accuse Singapore of being less “free”, but I think the greatest freedom is the right to security.

[@dwaynewhite1669]

As someone who lives in Georgia, and who’s family and friends are ultra-conservative; I thought for sure this was gonna spark some serious issues. However; to my surprise; everyone I know said that this case was disgusting and that those guys deserve to go to jail.

[@001SpecialAgent]

I too am a Georgia native and have had coworkers who I consider racist call these McMichael people racist. This really wasn't a questionable case. I watched some of the prosecutor and defense. The defense was just grasping at straws, even arguing that the structure he was entering that they have on video was not a "construction sight".

[@someanimefan5990]

That should not be a surprise anyone with common sense liberal or conservative can see how bs and insane this was

[@strippinheat]

"Stand your ground" doesn't seem to apply when you're actively pursuing someone in a vehicle.

[@glowinthedarkspider3118]

They're not even on the ground

[@kdeloris2225]

They hunted him down like prey

[@draddogz529]

In the wise words of Jimbo Kern, "He's comin' right for us!"

[@thebonesaw..4634]

What about Arbery's right to stand his ground and defend himself? Two armed men not only try to stop him, they get out of their vehicles and approach him while brandishing guns. Assuming Arbery had not committed a crime to that point (and considering he had no stolen property on him, he hadn't)... he has every right to defend himself and fight back against two men brandishing weapons and trying to prevent him from going about his business. For all he knew, these two yokels might have been trying to rob him, assault him or even lynch him (something southern white men are historically famous for doing).

[@draddogz529]

@@thebonesaw..4634 they kind of did lynch him. Now, I'm not sure what the lower bounds are for a mob, but at the very least two men went out and killed him because of an alleged crime. I don't think you could get away with saying 2 or possibly 3 men is a lynch mob, but it's not too far off.

[@pjamese3]

"I want to talk...with my shotgun." I'm a law-abiding citizen who served his country for 23 years in the Army. I respect law and order. But if I was jogging and two guys in a pickup truck tried to cut me off twice, then one of them jumped out of the truck with a shotgun, if I couldn't get to safety I'd have fought for the shotgun too. For all I knew, they intended 5o shoot me. You don't exit a vehicle carrying a firearm just to "talk." Self defense? You can't claim self defense if you're the one who initiated the conflict. For example: a guy sucker punches you at a party because you're talking to a girl he likes (but apparently doesn't like him.) He proceeds to beat you down. However, he doesn't know that you're a 3rd degree black belt. When you recover from the sucker punch, you proceed to take him apart. As he's now getting his ass kicked, the guy pulls a knife and stabs you. Later, he claims self defense because you were kicking his ass...in a fight he started. It's not suddenly self defense 2h3n you start a fight with someone who's a better fighter than you. The same thing goes for chasing down someone in your vehicle and coming out at them with a shotgun. If stand your ground applies her, it applies to the jogger who was chased down by two men in a vehicle and approached with a shotgun. Nothing would have come of this without the video. Shamefully, the local Georgia police and prosecutors were giving their old colleague and his son the "wink." This whole case would have just faded away if the,father hadn't been stupid enough to give the evidence against him and his son - I mean the recording of events - to a local radio station. (And if he felt comfortable enough to do that, I get the feeling that wasn't the 1st viewing party they had for that video. And...the police didn't have it from the start? The neighbor only gave the video to his friend?) And as far as the neighbor... why did he jump in his car and follow them? Was he asked to record video? I guess the police seem to think so now. Normally, I talk badly about people who pull out their smartphones and start shooting video of a crime for KZbin, Facebook or WorldStar instead of using that rarely-used phone function to call 911, but in 5his instance, it's the only way there MIGHT still be justice (or at least an actual trial. It IS still Georgia.)

[@Walawalacookie]

Thanks for your service. I wish people would stop dancing around the real issue here. These 2 guys saw a black man running down the street and instantly assumed he was a criminal. Even though he was in jogging clothes and wasn't carrying anything. This is pretty clearly a white on black hate crime.

[@thecornguy2286]

Do you know what the actus reus and men's reas is? If there is no men's reas you cannot charge someone with a crime especially murder, many cases like this have set precedent, the only difference is you saw the biased captions on social media and u think its all about race.

[@tsgillespiejr]

@@thecornguy2286 Do you honestly think the presumption of wrongdoing on the part of the killers wasn't racially influenced?

[@Walawalacookie]

@@thecornguy2286 Ah here comes the KZbin law expert. XD Please sir, fill us in on your minutes of law research and expertise.

[@Morilore]

@@thecornguy2286 15:27, genius.

[@BewegteBilderrahmen]

“Presumption of innocence“. Something ahrbery did not get.

[@thecornguy2286]

if you don't like having rights in your legal system leave the country.

[@BewegteBilderrahmen]

@@thecornguy2286 what is the worth of having rights that only apply to some people?

[@JoshSweetvale]

@@thecornguy2286 Yeah, about that. We're a week later.

[@MrZadir-nu7bd]

@@thecornguy2286 What rights was Ahrbery given here?

[@thedave8097]

Nor do men who are accused of sexual assault. It's all a trend in the US.

[@sirslickrock]

The guy with the camera was hurling racial slurs. The uncut version that the police obtained confirmed this.

[@MrPolklop]

Link please

[@sirslickrock]

@@MrPolklop don’t have a link but the charges filed against the camera operator (which is public) will reveal that.

[@nolandcharleskinder296]

And? So what?

[@LordSStorm]

@@nolandcharleskinder296 You have to put yourself in the position of the victim. If you are a black man being chased by armed white men hurling racial slurs, your logical thought is that they want to harm you or kill you. Given this, his actions seem reasonable, attempting to escape, and when prevented from doing so, fighting for your life against armed assailants. EDIT: In addition, given the fact that the McMichaels had a confederate flag on the vehicle which Abery may have seen, this only would add to a belief that these men intended to harm him. As a black man myself one of the most burned in images I have of racism is armed white men in trucks running after black people.

[@Xarai]

however no crime was done if he was charged then there are thousands of ppl watching brutal assaults, beatings, murders etc without doing anything and they should all be charged also also why is it a racial slur when non blacks say it but if a black person says it it is suddenly not racist?

[@DarkFire515]

The two suspects here had no evidence that the deceased had in fact committed any crimes. They had not been confronted by the deceased in their own homes. They proactively chased the deceased down the street, whilst armed. They then confronted the deceased, firearms in hand, having made no attempt to get the police there first. This wasn't self defense, this was two people living out their personal vigilante justice fantasies and a poor soul died because of it. They murdered him.

[@obviouspropaganda8200]

They only saw a man that looked like someone that had been committing crimes running out of a house with a no trespassing sign on it.

[@DarkFire515]

@CommandoDude Good point.

[@liquidmark5081]

obvious propaganda there wasn’t “no trespassing” sign on that house and they don’t know the owner of the house. So they don’t know who’s authorized to be there and have NO authority over that property.

[@aeis3007]

There is some odd things in Georgia state law about citizen arrest though that they might use as their defense and then use self defense on top of that. I am not a criminal layer but for me it comes down to if this was murder or manslaughter. You run someone down to the point where they know escape is not an option they are going to try and fight back.

[@mapache7317]

Remember to chase after the vehicle with armed men in it instead of running away. Remember to run around that vehicle to the driver's side door to confront these armed men. Remember to attack the armed man with your bare fists. Remember to grab the barrel of the gun pointed in your direction instead of knocking the gun away from you. Remember to pull the gun towards your body as the armed man has his finger on the trigger.

[@qasw1234]

I love how many people criticize Ahmaud Arbery for trying to go for the weapon instead of trying to escape. He was ALREADY trying to escape. They cut him off. He couldn't outrun a shotgun just as much as he couldn't outrun a truck.

[@seigeengine]

This. They'd already prevented him from escaping the situation. They cornered him. He fought. They murdered him.

[@crocodile2006]

If they were going to shoot him they would have done it already before the fight. He could have simply ran straight or turned to the right and ran back down Satilla Drive. Instead... he went for the gun. Big mistake.

[@PhaQ2]

@@seigeengine I failed to see the corner Armed Robbery was put into that he couldn't escape. Armed Robbery chose to throw himself on a shotgun and either become a hero or a martyr. Martyr it is!!!

[@hl6965]

And this isn't like video games either. Shotgun is just as effective at long range. Fight or flight here, but the fight kept coming to him and in his mind, flight probably meant getting shot in the back.

[@seigeengine]

@@PhaQ2 It's the part where they chased him down in vehicles and repeatedly blocked his way, you absolute sibling-porker.

[@jaquandrejones]

"He violently attacked me after me and my son chased him down and shot at him" 🏆🏆🏆 I'm not the mayor of dub city for no reason. We got the convictions boys

[@worsethanjoerogan8061]

Nobody shot at him until he charged.

[@zacharygilmore1075]

Dean Cutler He didn’t charge until they chased him with guns.

[@jaquandrejones]

@@worsethanjoerogan8061 you're from a state that killed americans over the right to own black people aren't you

[@TheWatchfulWolf]

You forgot the part where they obviously shot him, then walked calmly away after he collapsed on the ground. I'd be doing one of two things: 1, if I thought he was a threat, that shotgun would very distinctly still be levelled on him; 2, if it'd been an accidental discharge, I'd have very distinctly dropped the gun to see if he was alright. After all, you still have your buddy with his gun on your back. But then again I wouldn't chase people around in Georgia with a gun 'just to have a talk.'

[@jaquandrejones]

@@TheWatchfulWolf you sir are a thinker, so you're clearly not from Georgia

[@Cainthegodslayer]

2 armed men in a truck randomly chase you down, point guns at you and shout "stop, we just want to talk". Would you stop? Yeah, me neither.

[@jnecaise]

From what I read Greg McMichael was stripped of his arrest power for failing to take required use-of-force classes. I'm sure that has nothing to do with his excessive use of force in this situation, right?

[@henrydunn8413]

Jared Necaise Greg McMichaels was fired.

[@druidhillpark]

Brave man for even touching this subject.

[@belurso5179]

@Gmoney 12 Look at his name, it's cheap bait.

[@cg1906]

@Aggressive Tubesock its a lukewarm reference to a half formed good point at best. Which is better known by bait

[@cg1906]

@Aggressive Tubesock not saying that it isnt relevant information, im just saying that its only information. Not a point.

[@markdouglas1601]

@Aggressive Tubesock I mean he is privileged just like..literally everyone is. But that doesnt have anything to do with this video or comment lol

[@xstatic-ow5mz]

@Gmoney 12 how is this controversial?

[@ermenher8381]

One shouldn't presume that a stranger in their neighborhood might be committing a crime, nor should they pursue the individual without evidence/signs that they are committing a crime. I'm a security guard, guarding a construction site I twice had the police called on me and neighbors watching me. The police said the people were worried because of recent robberies; that was the reason I was hired to guard the site. Unless a crime is in progress do not harass strangers. Even if a crime is being committed, unless someone's life is threatened, do not use deadly force.

[@tonedeafduck4859]

He used deadly force because his life was threatened, you idiot. Do you all live in a fantasy world of your own creation? Where do you see arbery being shot for trespassing? People aren't convicted cuz they do or don't do what you like. We have to use the rule of law. Why is that so hard to understand?

[@NoFlyZone31]

tone deaf duck You stupid? Or do we just think differently? He said do NOT use deadly force, like the two mc-whatevers did.

[@OnTheBlank]

@@tonedeafduck4859 chasing someone down that is on foot while in a car, brandishing a weapon, and shouting for someone to stop when they have done no wrong and are under no duty to do so. These are all ways in which the McMichael's threatened the life of Ahmaud. But I guess him fighting back wasn't justified by your own logic because... he is somehow lesser in the eyes of the law? You can just claim to the 911 operator "there's a black man running" and then later tack on a false narrative about robberies when he ended up being nothing more than an unarmed jogger. And then the DA office sweeps it under the rug because convicting a former investigator would open up all the old cases, revealing that prosecutors only care about conviction rates and not actually getting the right person. And yet, even in the face of a system which only cares about convictions at all cost, a system born of Jim Crow which disproportionately targets blacks, there will still come the supporters appealing to authority. Supporters that would rather believe the system is just, that victims somehow deserved to be killed, than accept the grim reality. Just World Fallacy in action right here.

[@tonedeafduck4859]

@@NoFlyZone31 Not sure what your dysfunction is. He said do not use deadly force unless your life is threatened. I pointed out that their life was threatened, therefore they had to use deadly force. Watch me predict the future. You're now going to change the subject.

[@almaxxx13]

@@tonedeafduck4859 How was their life threatened by the unarmed man running around their truck that they got out of while armed? In the video, Arberry is clearly trying to disarm the man who jumped out of his vehicle with a shotgun. If anyone was threatened enough to use lethal force it would have been Arberry.

[@charlee_hotel]

A few things people in the comments are failing to understand: Ahmed was not committing an imminent crime at the time he was seen by the McMichaels. He was merely jogging. In the video where he’s inside that property in construction, per what LegalEagle describes what trespassing and burglary are, Ahmed was doing, he was not doing either of those things. Regarding the burglaries being reported around the neighborhood: even if Ahmed indeed committed them, again, at the time the McMichaels saw him jogging he was not actively committing an active crime so they couldn’t legally perform a citizen’s arrest. All they could do was merely call the police, provide a description and that’s it. Not even chasing him down. That wasn’t their job. When they chased him and escalated with deadly force, and even if he attempted to grabbed the weapon, he still didn’t had the capacity to return with equal force.

[@doyasadventures753]

Thank you, so many are being blatantly ignorant it makes me wonder if they understand the magnitude of this tragedy.

[@gmailisaretard]

@@doyasadventures753 They only understand "black people bad" and think they are big heroes for shooting an unarmed, innocent, man.

[@foo219]

It appears not only is "driving while black" something you can get shot to death for, so is "jogging while black"...

[@estellemariexo]

There’s just some people who want SO BADLY to believe that this murder was justified that they’ve sealed themselves off to any and all facts that contradict their narrative.

[@chonks2936]

"I wAs JuSt DeFeNdInG mY sElF" Yeah from a guy who was unarmed and did nothing to threaten you.

[@ameyakirtane6050]

I'd like to try and sway you to Arbery's side. It was the McMichael's who chased Arbery down in a truck while armed. This implies that they initiated this encounter. They had an option to simply not engage him or call 911. Additionally, it can be argued that Arbery had a right to self defense because 2 men chased him down with guns in their hand. That situation can make you fear for your life.

[@itsmysniff4950]

But it never reached that far. The older man never got out of the truck bed. So if you were approached exactly the same would you have been dumb enough to wrestle for the gun or wait for the cops? It's unfortunate that Arbery crossed paths with a hotheaded duo.

[@hashtagunderscore3173]

@John Moore You're an interesting character. You said this: "Arbery charging at the McMichaels after they offer him the chance to come quietly," First of all, they didn't ask him to "come anywhere." That would be kidnapping. Unless they have some police authority that you have provided no evidence to support. You appear to support this lynching. I'm not sure why.

[@lujia7b]

@Mauris So if I if I persue you in my truck because I believe you are capable of burglary, attempting to cut you off multiple times before successfully cornering you, and then I exit the vehicle shotgun-in-hand, you're not going to fight like your life depends on it? BIG doubt!

[@birthdwt8859]

@John Moore good thing you were able to calmly sit at home and formulate that plan in hindsight and knowledge of the situation. Still probably took you longer to write that comment than it took for the situation to go down.

[@Peepers2]

They hunted that poor man,and executed him in a neighborhood, in broad daylight????? Sickening.

[@briansinger5258]

Mr. chips Not an execution and exaggerations don’t help Justice one bit.

[@chantelleheatley4570]

@@briansinger5258 not an exaggeration at all.

[@Raytheman581]

@@briansinger5258 That was an execution lol, but we'll call it what it is then, murder in broad daylight.

[@Kraus-]

@@briansinger5258 An execution is killing as punishment for a crime. This was an execution. A lynching is death as punishment for the crime of being black. This was a lynching.

[@overimagination2812]

America is a sick society. Looka at how they treat Dr. Fauci.. its a bad joke...dumb, gullible, and easily lead like flocks of religious sheep.

[@Jessie_Helms]

“Yeah I cut him off with my vehicle and brandished a weapon at him. Then he attacked me for no reason!” -The most idiotic man in history

[@jamillejeez4404]

@@myusername0wns o.o👏👏👏👏👏 well done basement troll well done

[@catavar9921]

@@myusername0wns Better have really, really solid evidence that he was stealing, otherwise your two loverboys are going to be convicted of felony murder.

[@rushyscoper1651]

@@myusername0wns the only idiotic this that man did is jogging while black, he should have known better.

[@lmgmaster7526]

@@myusername0wns There isn't any evidence right now that Arbery was stealing things. If you're using that argument right now, that's because you're a racist asshole

[@protestssopeacefulweneedad2017]

@@jamillejeez4404 OK boomer

[@KT-fy6bl]

As a kid when my grandparents would go for a ride around town they would constantly stop at houses that were being built or were for sale. I remember waking all over construction sites on the weekend because my grandparents wanted to see what was built and how. Everyone is curious and to say that Ahmaud was trying to steal something in the middle of the day with no get away vehicle is ridiculous and those men should be ashamed of themselves for a ending someone’s life.

[@keepinitkawaii]

I try to explain this to people but people refuse to see the double standards. If you put someone else in the same situation and the way people would react changes. I live in a new sub division in Georgia and old white ladies are ALWAYS going into to the houses under construction. They dont even live on my street. No one would think to chase them down the street with guns. In fact, one day my mom actually called the police because they went into an empty house that was just finished that someone had just bought. The rest of my family and some neighbors actually called my mom mean just for letting the police know that they were walking into empty houses.

[@erica-5198]

This is such a common thing. The "park" in Ed, Edd n Eddy was literally a construction site. Literally, everyone goes into these homes. The danger is posed for the person walking in. There's nothing in the house aside from beams.

[@1987palerider]

The McMicahels' version of the story just makes it worse. They saw him running down the street and immediately assumed he was a burgler

[@nanoglitch6693]

Would they have assumed the same if the jogger was white? I highly doubt it.

[@justsomeguy5470]

He would've shot them or at least, tried to, if he was an armed robber

[@faxthat2855]

And it was board day light also

[@MagesIncorporated]

@@nanoglitch6693 I really hate that you're probably right. That may just be my prejudicial perspective based off the stereotypical impression of Georgians/Southeasterners or their visage, but I also can't help but feel that race was a key role for inciting this situation...

[@famousplan2693]

We aren't even talking about George Floyd. wow. Kind of annoying how the police officer had to do this in the middle of the pandemic.

[@AmateurContendr]

It doesn't matter if they "thought" he was a robber. As stated, there was no robbery going on at that time, so they had no evidence that it was happening. Not only that, but you don't get to play judge, jury, and executioner even if you think there was one. There's a reason law exists. You don't see me running down the street putting bullets in the first person I see every time my neighbors get robbed. Cuz that's not how this works.

[@IceMetalPunk]

I guarantee you Ahmaud wasn't the first person he saw. He was just the first "suspicious" person he saw, and by that I mean he was the first Black guy he saw running who he knew had been arrested before.

[@WeekzGod]

I think what they thought has to do with mens rea. It would change the charge from manslaughter to murder to negligent homicide etc. Different types of 'murder' in the court system.

[@protestssopeacefulweneedad2017]

@@IceMetalPunk is that a money back guarantee? Cause if so then pay up or shut up

[@GodShiru]

​@@protestssopeacefulweneedad2017 Nice username there, bud.

[@AvatarOfBhaal]

@@protestssopeacefulweneedad2017 Your username appears to be wrong. Slightly wrong, but wrong. Not to mention most gun deaths aren't accidents. Fun fact: USA has five times the murder and five times the prison population as most other western nations. Not that I think you care.

[@nathanielsweet7614]

I think the most disturbing part of this is the fact that EVEN if you take everything the killers said as true, you nonetheless come to the conclusion that they are at least guilty of something. It should not have taken the release of the video to lead to the arrests.

[@emilyhofland8219]

You're right, bringing a gun to an expected confrontation. Or inviting a confrontation to your property and using your gun. Has been described as premeditated murder in other cases.

[@daviddaniel8944]

Kobe Bryant ah yes because seeing someone go on your property and then running away is a legitimate reason to kill someone

[@ColonelGreen]

His point was that the McMichaels are not the property owners. The property owner was Mr. English, who had nothing to do with this whole situation.

[@Truffle85]

@@daviddaniel8944 It wasn't their property. By all accounts, they say they were 'asked' to watch over a house under construction.

[@Ninja0666]

Kobe Bryant I haven’t heard anyone call him a hero

[@Nik-ff3tu]

Long story short: those guys lynched Abery

[@TsGhosty]

I can tell you didn't look into the case at all

[@krich451]

@@TsGhosty I've looked into it, it was a lynching.

[@shadenox8164]

@@TsGhosty They hunted down a guy who did nothing wrong, judging by what they said based on the colour of his skin.

[@WarEagle1023]

@@TsGhosty and I can tell you didn't look into the case either. Don't fling stones if your bedroom is in a glass house mate

[@beebo7071]

@@WarEagle1023 “your perspective based on facts is wrong because it doesn’t match mine”

[@A._is_for]

Firing three times is no accident. Tailing someone while armed is intent

[@PotholedAxe9985]

Honestly, the second the man stepped out of the truck with the shotgun in hand, the stand your ground defense should be off the table because he has now instigated a situation, even if his intent wasn't to kill, he just followed a man, put him in a corner, and now the victim sees a shotgun. Of course Arbery would start attacking the man, he was trying to defend himself after being cornered by a man with a shotgun. We can sit here all day and try all these 'IF" statement, like maybe if Arbery didn't try to take the weapon, the whole thing might've gone okay and he'd still be alive, meaning they didn't intend to kill him. ORRR, maybe if he didn't try, he was still gonna be shot no matter what he did, meaning they did intend to kill him. The fact is that they trailed a man, cornered him, and instigated a conflict while armed. Intent no longer is a factor in this case, rather simply the actions committed. They men may not have intended to kill Arbery, but at this point it doesn't matter because of the actions they took prior to killing this man. This is Felony Murder, clear as day.

[@longliverocknroll5]

@@PotholedAxe9985 Frankly, the minute they began following him is when the stand-your-ground defense should be out the window.

[@DaDunge]

@Harriet Tubman I really don' think the family wants anyone's money, I'm guessing they want justice of the loss of a son.

[@petervansan1054]

@@PotholedAxe9985 he never pointed the gun you moron, open carry is legal and so i having shotgun in hands, if you are not pointing it, you are just fine.

[@sandropazdg8106]

@@petervansan1054 you don't know that the struggle for the gun started off camera.

[@LabrnMystic]

As ex-military and someone who's been overseas; and then given and educated in use of deadly force: we can claim a lot about what these McMichaels did wrong. 1) why did you get out of the vehicle? 2) why did he get out of the vehicle with a deadly weapon? 3) if you were trying to engage a tackle or arrest the civilian, why did you take a deadly weapon with you that could be taken from you when you have an armed partner with a bead on the target? 4) why did you not simply continue your pursuit until proper law enforcement showed up? 5) why did your partner not fire a warning shot before attempting to actually shoot the target? 6) as a former and heavily experienced officer of the law, why did you not follow proper procedure or have your own camera to capture the situation? 7) why was your partner not on the phone with 911 while engaging the target? The experience knowledge this gentleman should have, combined with the lack of cooperation with law enforcement that they are well-known and familiar with, it seems to indicate they meant to murder this individual.

[@terryfang]

They simply have no authority to arrest anyone tbh.

[@Firgof]

@Jeffrey K "Shut up, I've proven he's biased (???) so ignore everything."

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

Warning shots are not always "legal" in every jurisdiction. Or, to better clarify my position, you don't pull out a gun or fire unless the situation absolutely requires it. Or else you get in more trouble than it's worth.

[@josephshrike3972]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD if you're at the point where you think it's legal to point a gun at someone not an immediate threat to you, and being ready to kill that person, the legality of a warning shot probably hasn't crossed your mind. That said, I don't think it would have made any difference, and honestly probably could have injured or killed someone else. Warning shots aren't a great idea in a neighborhood

[@giovanninasuluh]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD unless you live in Good O'l Boy Territory. Then you can just get away scot-free.

[@neilpatel519]

I feel as if the defenders are forgetting your not exactly at your calmest state when your being actively pursued by 2 hillbillies carrying shot guns. Are you saying if you were in this same situation and you see that the firearm was loaded and the man is closing in on you you wouldn't try to unarm the man trying to end your life 🤔.

[@neilpatel519]

@Mauris He didn't have to talk to the McMichaels he had the right of silence. They had no hard evidence that he stole the gun from the McMichaels vehicle or that he committed any crime for that matter or the irrelevant prosecutions before. Which as he pointed out doesn't have anything to do with this current situation. The connection has no link to this case. The fact of the matter is an everyday runner was out for his evening jog, stopped for a breath, was chased by 2 armed men who ultimately killed him. So let me rephrase that for you he was lynched.

[@Kraus-]

@Brian Reed I almost feel some sympathy for the third guy. With the most generous benefit of the doubt he hypothetically intended to testify as a witness and did not expect a murder. But his choice to follow and his choice to not even shout to ask them to stop... that becomes legal liability even with the most good of intentions. So at best, he chose to stand by and watch a murder, at worst he joined in a lynching.

[@neilpatel519]

@@Kraus- Not to mention all the outside backlash from people who don't know the whole story.

[@NoriMori1992]

@Mauris It's almost like you didn't watch the video at all.

[@treesome3979]

@Mauris I'm sorry there's a detail I didn't understand in your statement. The DA was not in uniform and was riding a civilian vehicle, was accompanied by ankther civilian and was armed. Did he have the right as a police officer to stop someone in the middle of the road to talk to them? I'm not from the USA so I'm not sure about how these things work over there but if someone in plain clothes tried to stop me with guns I certainly wouldn't stop to listen to them, I would feel in danger. Also even if he was stealing, let's say he stole a couple million dollars from an old lady, does that warrant his death?

[@swimmyswim417]

After hearing about this case, I finally got to a place where I’m ready to dive into this terrible case and it’s even worse than I could’ve imagined. There’s no gray area here, they chased him down and murdered him. It doesn’t matter if they thought he was a thug. It doesn’t matter if they thought they were standing their ground, even if you’re in a legitimate self-defense situation, once the threat is gone, YOU PUT THE FREAKING GUN DOWN. You don’t pursuit someone with lethal force. We can’t know what Arbery was doing in the neighborhood, he was robbed of the right to tell his side of the story and defend himself in a court of law when they shot and killed him.

[@picometer472]

He robbed himself. The McMichaels were trying to bring him to justice so he could tell his side of the story. I wish Arbery had chosen to go quietly--I would love to have heard his side of the story--but he just didn't want to go to justice since he might have gone to jail. The judge might not have believed "his side of the story."

[@Kazutoification]

@@picometer472 The McMichaels did not have the right bring Arbery to justice. The McMichaels did, however, have the right to call 911 on the suspicions that Arbery had done something wrong and to make sure they knew his whereabouts and to remain in communications with the police. The McMichaels, for all intents and purposes, are private citizens just like Arbery. They do not possess any authority over Arbery to stop and detain him. So, I agree with the original poster, Arbery was, in fact, robbed of his right to tell his side of the story.

[@jameskellinger8314]

@@Kazutoification So, you do not believe there is a citizen's arrest law in Georgia.

[@Kazutoification]

@@jameskellinger8314 I believe the Citizen's Arrest law was reviewed in the video. The McMichaels may have thought that they could engage in a citizen's arrest, but they didn't fulfill the conditions, which puts them in the wrong. Had they witnessed a felonious act take place, then by all means, they are justified in trying to stop and detain Arbery from escaping before police can come and take him to jail before bringing him to a court to face a judge. However, this is not the case at hand.

[@jameskellinger8314]

@@Kazutoification The review of the citizen's arrest law in this video is complete crap.

[@InfernosReaper]

I don't even know why they wanna call it a "citizen's arrest" when by the law of that state there was no solid legal grounds to try to engage in one. They need to have *directly witnessed* or be properly aware that a *felony* had been committed and that person they're trying to detain is the perpetrator. They *clearly* failed to meet that criteria. . Also, if someone's chasing you down with a gun and you can't get away, it's a bit disingenuous to say that the person with the gun was "violently attacked." It also kills their claim they thought he might have had a gun, because if he did, he would've used it instead of lunging at someone who clearly did have a gun The victim is the only one with a clear stand your ground defense in this situation.

[@Xershade]

If he was actually being tailed and was burgling with a gun, they wouldn't have gotten out of the truck. Four people can keep a secret if the three what aren't supposed to know about it are dead. Also chasing someone you think is armed is beyond moronic, if you think he's armed you don't chase him down and say "Oh uh, I was self defencing him." These three clearly went after him, they should be locked up for a LONG time.

[@thereaction18]

At least you got the "or" part. But that "properly aware" thing is not it. It's "reasonable and probable suspicion."

[@InfernosReaper]

@@thereaction18 I was paraphrasing, though better wording could stand to have been used.... words are hard

[@copo2835]

@@thereaction18 You're right about the verbiage, but they still were not legally in the right here. Their suspicions were neither reasonable nor probable. They just saw a black guy and decided he MUST be the burglar. Even though they had never seen him do anything more suspicious than jogging down the road.

[@manmayhem923]

In Georgia, the law states that a private person may arrest someone if a crime is committed in his presence or “within his immediate knowledge.” Within immediate knowledge and presence is the part to focus on. McMichael wasn't in the presence of a crime he speculated. So I feel it doesn't apply here.

[@Thezuule1]

"We just want to talk to you." -Man with a shotgun

[@martins.4240]

"How about no" - Bear meme

[@TheOriginalJdogg836]

Yeah, I don't feel like "talking" to someone who is so fragile he feels he needs to carry a shotgun to speak to me.

[@xstatic-ow5mz]

"We just want to vaccinate you for your own good and muh greater good" - Orange Man with a syringe

[@annt.zemitik2203]

"Man with a shotgun...that was pointed at the ground."

[@longliverocknroll5]

​@@annt.zemitik2203 Which means nothing, because he can point up and do significant damage in seconds, but nice try.

[@ubermensch4304]

I struggle to understand how someone can get armed up to the teeth, chase you down in their car, pull up beside you, get out and start walking you down with a shotgun in their hands, but if you do anything back to them you are seen as the aggressor. What is the alternative then? You have to lay down like a lamb to the slaughter for any maniac who starts pointing a gun at you, hoping that, by sheer mercy, they'll decide to spare you? I'm glad I don't live in America.

[@cypher787]

georgia has a stand your ground law like florida does but i dont think it fits in this situation at least i hope it doesnt

[@Rihyaruto]

HTF is this stand your ground doctrine when the gunners went after the victim, chased him on car while the victim runs, weren't even in the house the victim's been inside??? How are you standing your ground when the victim's running away from you for almost 8mins, tried to veer left and right when they blocked the road with the truck??? How is any of this stand your ground?????

[@onanthebarbarian9883]

@@cypher787 This is covered in this video.

[@adamplentl5588]

@@cypher787 you should like watch the video and then comment.

[@duncanp2248]

@@cypher787 It doesn't apply here, at least to the McMichaels, although it likely would to Arbery, meaning that if he had had a gun, he would have been legally allowed to use deadly force against the McMichaels. Stand your ground does not apply if you are the aggressor.

[@leonj1212]

As a law student, I really appreciate the carefulness of your choice of words and making sure you are speaking without prejudice. While it’s easy to draw conclusions on the surface level, it’s important to recognize that quite literally anything is possible a criminal case. Regardless, this is just a sad case and I hope legitimate justice is served.

[@picometer472]

Would you agree that if you only look at the final video, you see a man run from a great distance toward a pickup truck and attack one of the men, struggling to take the man's shot gun? If this video was the entirety of the evidence, and everything known about the case is within the four corners of this video, what would be your legal analysis? List the facts which are evident, you being the witness viewing through the lens of the camera. Then make whatever inferences are possible. For an example, for the world "running" I propose a definition as "rapid ambulation where both feet leave the ground momentarily while in forward motion" Does one see a person running in the video? It's a fact issue. The words "jogging" and "fleeing" are words that might be inferred from the fact of running. but then one is inferring intent--the intent of the running person--the purpose for their running--physical exercise or escaping justice. Do you see anyone running in the video? Do you see anyone jogging? Do you see anyone fleeing?

[@SmallAngryNerd]

if someone told me to stop while following me with a gun, i, in fact, would NOT stop

[@frankcooke1692]

There's a way of thinking that if you're told by an assailant to do something, you should do the opposite of what they want. If someone tells you not to scream - you should make as much noise as possible.

[@MsJubjubbird]

I wouldn't even stop with no gun. Maybe because I'm female but still, someone who follows you then tries to you off is seriously trouble

[@petervansan1054]

and yet he did and then attacked them

[@Yeggman]

@@petervansan1054 it called a last measure to escape an dangerous situation.

[@theomegajuice8660]

@@petervansan1054 I guarantee that all the idiots making this point have also talked about how they'd heroically tackle a mass shooter instead of fleeing or begging for their life like a "coward" If he'd had his own gun on him and pulled it out and shot them all dead he'd arguably have been justified too.

[@Primitarian]

Unfortunately for the McMichaels, stupidity is not a defense.

[@gloomylobster111]

Skin is at least

[@avalorraine7783]

Hi, Dad.

[@kentallard8852]

the younger one definitely looks like his most uttered phrase is "what?"

[@erik_gutierrez]

@Robert Slackware Edgy.

[@Nik-ff3tu]

Extremely aggressive stupidity at that

[@thecalmbro]

I just want to talk! Have a perfectly civil conversation with my fellow man with no violent or murderous intent whatsoever! *Gets out of truck with shotgun in hand*

[@sabin97]

@Adolph Bidenkopt he tried to be safe. but he was unable to get the gun out of the murderers hands.....sadly.

[@zacharygilmore1075]

@Adolph Bidenkopt He was just jogging. The two men had no legitimate reason to suspect him of any crime. Any prior criminal record is irrelevant to this situation. I wouldn't want to run after Aumaud in either case.

[@jameskellinger8314]

@@zacharygilmore1075 Purse snatchers are all excellent joggers.

[@innocento.1552]

@@jameskellinger8314 so go shoot them. Hero.

[@zachharrell7776]

Just an update to this, all three men involved in the killing were convicted of murder just recently.

[@ardenalexa94]

I know I’m late to this, but I’m glad to hear they were convicted.

[@thomasengelke7745]

The fact that the father & son picked up guns to detain a person leads a reasonable person to believe that they either feared for their lives or were on a "hunt" to kill. As there was no place for either a gun or stolen items to be hidden on arby's body, and that he was jogging away and not running at top speed back the way he came, leads a reasonable person to conclude that he was not in the shell of a home to do anything illegal. Back to the father and son, any reasonable person would try to get away from a person(s) who were carrying and showing guns. It is more reasonable to conclude that the adrenaline was flowing in the father and son because they were out on a hunt. If they only wanted to detain, why the guns. Why not follow and communicate to the police? None of the 3 people called the police during the chase, during the fight, or after the "killing". This is felony murder as no body should be given the legal right to chase with guns anyone who clearly could not have been a risk to the lives of others. Lock the door and throw away the key.

[@-JonnyBoy-]

Its called the 2nd amendment, don't let the left make you think its illegal to have and carry a gun. They absolutely called the police before this incident so you are miss informed on that. HE was find with running towards the truck and around it attacking someone with a gun so do you think he wouldn't have beaten the shit out of the guy when he had no gun? Just look at his criminal past and other interactions with police He is THUG.

[@thomasengelke7745]

@Ham Samson Except he was jogging. He was able to dodge his followers. What could he being carrying? The only items in the "building site" were large items. Once again known by the neighbors and the owner. The camera confirm the types of items. No tools no personal items. It was a "building site" without walls. The owner, the police, nor the neighbors said if there was any signs for do not trespass or warnings. Then the owner said nothing was taken after the killing / murder. Lastly nothing was found on his body. In law the store security can not detain without probable cause. A hunch is not legal. The fact that the jogger was seen in the building site is not enough to detain especially with guns. The fact that the jogger was a frequent visitor by jogging in the area again gives rise to him not being guilty of any crimes. But the sheer fact the the neighbors picked up guns when the most that could have been taken from the building site is wood or plaster, gives rise to a greater question! Why guns when the worst that could have been taken is building material. No lives were under threat!!! No personal safety was ever under threat by the jogger!! So why guns??? Why more than one gun???? Why not wait for the police to attend the scene and question the jogger???? Instead they acted like they were the law. They acted like vigilantes. They acted like they were back in the wild west and they had a hunch that the guy was guilty. But most importantly- they had no proof that the jogger was guilty of taking anything. In fact the video evidence shows more people than the jogger visited the building site!! Why not pull the guns out for everyone of them???? Why just this guy??? The neighbors called the police and that should have been the end of. America is now beyond citizens taking the law into their own hands. Or ar least SHOULD BE.

[@thomasengelke7745]

@@-JonnyBoy- Do you really think that the two "american" hunters ran a background check on the jogger's past to ascertain if they needed guns - if yes, then dream on. The history of America's past shows all too clearly the method of some gun carrying white americans when they suspect a black person of doing a crime. The REASON or MOTIVATION behind the two men with guns in the truck chasing after the jogger is the main case in point. There is no foundation for carrying guns apart from two reasons. They wanted to shoot something or someone or they feared for their lives. I cant think of any American that would want to carry guns into a bank, onto an airplane, or to visit a relative in hospital. But they would carry guns just to prove a point. Therein lies the motivation behind the action of those men carrying guns. They did not say to the police that they only carried guns because of their Constitutional rights. They may try to fall back on that later on. But for now they are trying to base their defence on that they suspected the jogger of being a criminal. Then to bring in justifications such as the past history of the jogger. None of that entered into their minds because of what they said to the police at the scene. Motivation is the basis of the conviction. Just as much as the motivation behind lynching, slavery and domination over another is banned in America. Because America was built on the promise of allowing each and every person the FREEDOM to live their lives free of such persecutions. So, just ask yourself just one question: What on the builder's site was so important, so vital, so costly that a man had to die for? Those men knew that there was NOTHING on that site that was so important as to take up guns and hunt a man down and kill him!!! That will come up in court. Guaranteed

[@D3moralizor]

@@-JonnyBoy- How to defend murderers by Jonny Boy. They were allowed to carry a gun, they were not allowed to pursue a man with no reasonable grounds after already calling the police, use a truck to get ahead of him and then confront him with those guns. They murdered him and you're trying to happily defend them and call him a thug, care to claim your free 'I'm a racist' pin badge?

[@TheFrogInYourClosetWatchingYou]

@@-JonnyBoy- he was fine running towards the truck? you mean after they had chased him up and down the street with firearms and wore him out and had him scared shitless? He had every right to try and defend himself and those scum will rot in prison and I hope the father takes comfort in knowing his son is going to be treated like a proper lady in prison...

[@dranon1640]

>Hello this is 911 >Yeah there's a black guy running down the street How stupid does that sound

[@TheMrVengeance]

Sadly not stupid enough for a large group of white Americans. _"Hello, 911? There's a black woman here selling bottled water. Please come arrest them."_ ... _"Hello 911? There's black people in the Starbucks. Remove them please."_

[@LadyScaper]

It does not sound stupid at all. Existing while black is a criminal activity. Did you see the recent video of a black bird watcher asking a lady to leash her dog, in a leashed dog area of Central Park? She called the cops saying a black man was threatening her.

[@glenecollins]

LadyTourmaline I have had that happen when I was working security and a lady was letting her large dog jump on people and I generally pass for white, I think that is more a Karen thing than a race thing. How dare someone tell me what to do? I will have them arrested!!!

[@nahuelaizen703]

​@@LadyScaper The guy in question claimed he threaten harming her dog before he started recording, both parties could have acted better.

[@jellosapiens7261]

I love how incredulous the dispatcher was, like "is he doing anything illegal, or just... running?"

[@ashleyisaleprechaun]

Gregory McMichael explicitly had his POST certification revoked for not attending multiple UOF and firearm trainings. Any sort of argument that he was deputized should fall flat due to that. You cannot act as police with police powers without POST certs.

[@bruisedjinx]

is this like a national standard thing? (i know nothing about cops/training/certs/etc.) also, would it apply to local departments? one of the issues the community has with this area is that the local police may have long-standing abuse issues and they want the local police disbanded and i guess the larger county to take over?

[@Kagrenackle]

BruisedJinx POST is not nationally applied in exactly the same way state by state, but it definitely applies in Georgia in all municipalities. Even volunteers must have POST certification to enforce criminal law.

[@orkinho1]

This is irrelevant and only used as a hit job against Mcmichael Sr.

[@Bad_Wolf_Media]

@@orkinho1 Yeah! How dare anyone use the actual facts in this case! It's making the people you like look like bad guys, and that's just not fair!!!

[@surfeit5910]

According to his argument, I'm still a firefighter, even though I haven't been certified since 2009...

[@kathleenr.3508]

This case made me physically ill. Glad they all ended up in jail. You think someone's robbing your neighborhood? You call the cops! You don't go all vigilante.

[@davidchristian8447]

If you do go all vigilante, make sure you dress up like Batman. Nothing says neighborhood protector more than skintight leather/Spandex and a fashionable cape... and no guns.

[@spongeintheshoe]

@@davidchristian8447 Batman is _very_ serious about not killing people.

[@davidchristian8447]

@@spongeintheshoe hey, baby steps in the right direction... without the guns, I think the fight would've been far less lopsided than it was.

[@1Katakana]

As if those two would just have stood there calmly and trusted a complete stranger who says "I just wanna talk" while said person is holding a gun after being chased, shouted at and cut off.

[@JasonVoorheeTalkShow]

This is why gun owners NEED to have a strong understanding of stand your ground law. 2A gives you the right to keep and bear arms, your right to actually shoot someone is extremely conditional.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

The 2A freaks would argue that it’s their right to kill people who look at them funny.

[@user-ei9ns9hq6b]

@@Justanotherconsumer nope you're thinking of MS13 illegal aliens

[@Vivi2372]

If there's one thing that describes the overwhelming majority of American gun owners I've talked to over the years it's that they're obsessed with what their rights are and have never even once thought about what responsibilities that right carries. They don't care.

[@registeredaccountant3850]

@@user-ei9ns9hq6b I've most definitely seen tweets from people threatening to shoot people dead over having milkshakes thrown on them back when antifa was doing that shit.

[@jerrodshack7610]

@@registeredaccountant3850 Look at his name. Ignore the troll.

[@KGillis]

When I was a kid, it was pretty common for us to go into houses that were under construction and play around. We didn't vandalize the property or anything. We were just curious kids, and it was fun. Maybe we shouldn't have done that, but I think any reasonable person would agree that it's not worth being hunted down and murdered for.

[@tunaburn2330]

it still is common. These racists just were looking for an excuse.

[@iurigrang]

You look white tho, so you probably were safe.

[@IN-tm8mw]

i did that too, the worst that happened was, cops were called on us for trespassing, they talked to us and let us go.

[@10Vernonplace]

@@tunaburn2330 Bingo! Two guys looking for a way to be a "hero" by killing a black guy.

[@timseguine2]

@@IN-tm8mw Because there would have been no grounds for charging you. The property owner can tell you to leave or that you are not allowed in, and then you have to comply.

[@AKHMallory]

I have cousins and two siblings who’ve been arrested in the past. The idea that if I were a victim of a crime, someone could bring them up as if it were somehow relevant to the issue at hand is absolutely horrifying.

[@silentj624]

you appear to be white. you'd probably be fine. dye your hair blonde just to be safe though.

[@AKHMallory]

silentj624 true. I was more just thinking about the concept in the abstract, empathizing with the victim in this scenario. The fact that this probably WOULDNT happen to me on the grounds you state is a problem, for sure. But in that nobody should have to deal with it. The fact that, if my skin were a different color, the past actions of my family would likely be weaponized against me, is what is disturbing. I’m sorry my original comment wasn’t very clear on that.

[@rayrowley4013]

When you pull a gun on someone they rarely are just going to stand there like they do in the movies. That reaction requires two conditions. They have to believe that you will shoot if they do not follow instructions (or else they will run away). And two they have to believe you WON'T shoot if they comply. I tend to think that a black man in Georgia being told to stop by 2 white guys in a truck with a shotgun does not inspire trust of safety. I could believe that the act of stoping him created a fear for his life (whether or not the two white guys were acting reasonably).

[@IceMetalPunk]

There are three possible reactions to fear: fight, flight, or freeze. He tried to flee, and kept getting cut off until he had nowhere else to go. If he froze, he'd be frozen with two guns pointed at him by two angry men. So, duh, of course he fought as a last-ditch attempt to save his life. We all would.

[@petyabubkin2800]

All people in this comment section believe that if Ahmaud did not fight for his life he would be dead, but that's not the case. To freeze was the most optimal option there. Ahmaud was unarmed, and, thus, he was not a threat to a two armed men and, therefore, in such scenario they had no basis to shoot him and he would stay alive. He had to show that he was unarmed and obey their orders no matter he was innocent at the moment or not. Yes, it's sounds unnatural, but that would have secured his life. The police would arrive at the place, arrest him, conduct a necessary investigation and only then a proper conclusion about who was need to be arrested (possibly both: Ahmaud for trespassing or attemted burglary and two men for false citizen's arrest) would be made. I'm not defending the two men, I'm just showing that Ahmaud's actions were irrational and that he could not die, but, I have to admit, I was never under a gun and I don't know how would act in his place.

[@danielgrantham9537]

I can understand that, but my first instinct still wouldnt be to fight over a gun. There was no way that decision could have ended well. Unfortunately he lost his life, that was the McMillans fault. But I think poor decisions were made on both sides part.

[@GeneriicUsername498]

@@petyabubkin2800 "Ahmaud's actions were irrational" yeah sorry to break it to you but people don't act rationally when they're getting chased by armed men

[@Redeyys]

@@petyabubkin2800 So if two random strangers pointed guns at you, you'd stop and do what they said? Even if what he did wasn't "optimal", it still doesn't excuse the killing. I probably would have fought in that situation as well, because I'd have a split second to make a life changing decision and I'd be terrified. If we're presuming the two killers are innocent until proven guilty, we have to do the same for Ahmaud. He wasn't (and now can't be) proven guilty of any crime, so why did he have to give up his freedom of movement to these two strangers? Is that the society you want to live in? Where strangers can come up with guns, and, based on no solid evidence, and hold you indefinitely for the police?

[@chpruc]

I think we're forgetting a major motive here. McMichaels left his pistol unsecured in an unlocked car and the pistol was stolen. I can't even express how stupid this is. He's former law enforcement and he left a gun in an unlocked vehicle. Like a moron who shouldn't have a gun. He wanted that gun back and he wanted a workable resolution to his narrative that he wasn't accountable for his cosmic idiocy. The victim did have weapons charges in the past, but those were resolved. The victim was also studying electrical at the local college, so I'd imagine he was interested in the construction site. I would be.

[@KQVTownTheme]

I think a lot of us would be. I remember my dad and I - both white - would bike around the richest neighborhood in town and visit construction sites. Not one time in probably a decade of doing this and visiting hundreds of houses were we ever confronted, asked to leave, or even given weird looks, let alone threatened, assaulted, or subject to police intervention (or, you know, _lynched_ ).

[@valorantproplays6252]

he was visting that site since 2019 day and sometimes nights, YES YES YES im pretty sure he was there studying the construction site

[@Userext47]

My profession is nowhere near construction site and I'd be interested aswell. I like the act of constructing something so a building being built would be interesting to look at.

[@mcfry13]

Your argument is interesting, but gets weaker and more speculative as it goes on. Stick with what you can prove and focus less on the "what-if" and probabilities. I'm still not entirely convinced, but I'm always open to new and concrete evidence. Im done letting emotions and feeling dictate how I see these sensitive and complicated topics.

[@BrianHolmes]

I find it hard to accept that a retired officer would do something so basically dangerous as well(He is a father and sure to understand gun safety and etiquette). I find it more reasonable to believe he sold it or gave it as a gift and "cleansed" the serial number by claiming it was stolen. Your thoughts?

[@Wastelander1972]

The father is a former cop. I don’t care what the victim allegedly did. They knew better than to pursue him while armed. They should have called the cops.

[@darksideblues135]

Georgia law says differently. But it’s nice to see you are pro criminal.

[@jashonwestbrook3362]

They did

[@CanalTremocos]

See the thing is over there being a cop means a different thing. While most of us know cops as someone that is trained at keeping social peace, over there a cop is someone that can murder with impunity. I'm sure they expected to have the same perks as active cops do and the sad thing is for 9 weeks they actually did.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

DarkSide Blues given your desperate and pathetic attempts on just about every thread here, I’m going to call you pro-criminal, because you’re making excuses for murderers.

[@cypher787]

@@darksideblues135 good to see you think the possibilty that someone trespassed onto a construction site at night is an executable offense

[@josephrogers6537]

Hello Mr Eagle, visitor from the future here. While I won't disclose the outcome of the trial I can tell you that your legal anaylsis (17 months ago!) is spot on. Good job.

[@Burkutace27]

"Citizen's Arrest." I think the term you want is "Lynching."

[@mr.awesome7552]

I don’t support what the McMicheals did, but if the motivation was lynching they would have likely shot him from the car, no reason to stop him

[@SmallSpoonBrigade]

@Mauris Nope, that's not how that works. They initiated it, he was defending himself. The real question is whether they have any legal grounds for a jury to acquit them. But it is factually incorrect to suggest that the victim initiated the violence.

[@AlastorChevreuil]

@@mr.awesome7552 It really doesn't help that Travis McMichael called him a "f--ing n---er" while he was dying. I read the article. He held racist opinions on Arbery at the very least.

[@mr.awesome7552]

@@AlastorChevreuil Yeah that's a fair assessment

[@fatuousinnovatorofsadness4640]

@@mr.awesome7552 If the motivation was a lynching they would have chased him down in a car with guns out, pointing said guns at him, and they would have tried to incite violence by being incredibly vague in their directions and exceptionally threatening nonetheless so that they may have some legal legroom when it came to arguments of self defense after he - quite predictably for someone in his situation, I might add - tries to disarm one of them. And then called him the N word after shooting him.

[@Sir.Craze-]

"Theres a lot you can do, especially when holding a shotgun." -LegalEagle 2020

[@RS-zp1we]

For example: use skillshare!

[@freddekl1102]

Words to live by

[@martinreid1711]

" "Theres a lot you can do, especially when holding a shotgun." -LegalEagle 2020 " -micheal scott 2020

[@1230james]

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with just a kind word." - Al Capone

[@yunikage]

@@1230james Capone didn't say that. Capone never said anything that clever in his life.

[@loganbuhain1559]

Hey LegalEagle, I’d like to get your legal take of the Breonna Taylor case.

[@PolaOpposite]

And he should compare it to the trial and conviction of Black police officers who were convicted of killing other innocent victim: (1) Two police officers found guilty of shooting death of an autistic child in his father's truck. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qXTUk6d4jL51iq8 (2) Minneapolis Police Officer found guilty of shooting an Australian woman in an alley. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJ7Cn2eEqb15b80

[@NoriMori1992]

YES

[@jimmycorr7927]

These are anecdotes dude. Hundreds of people die per year in this way and you base it on 4. Talk about sample size.

[@ThatShelbyGuyIgor]

An investigation into a trap house ended with one drug dealer dead.

[@availanila]

@Robert Slackware that'll be hilarious. God the melodrama that was that whole affair to the end.

[@thomassaldana2465]

5:10 "The McMichaels told police that when they caught up with Arbery he attacked Travis who shot Arbery in self defence." Nope. You don't get to claim self-defence if you're chasing someone. This isn't a case of 'stand your ground', because it wasn't the McMichaels' ground. They were chasing Arbery off the ground which he was running across, so, if anyone gets to claim self-defence, it's him, not them.

[@GreebleClown]

Wasn’t even their property they saw him leaving, for all they knew the owner knew him and asked him to run down and check something or maybe he was a worker who had forgotten something at the site. And before someone chimes in with “then why would he be running away from them?”: I would have run for the hills too if I saw a truckload of angry men yelling at me to stop and “wanting to talk”. I’m a white woman, and my first thought wouldn’t have been “there’s been some misunderstanding, let me clear this up,” I’d have assumed they were going to rape and murder me! Hell yes I’m going to fight for my life if they caught me, you don’t bring a gun to “talk” to someone!

[@joemagill4041]

The moment you chose to pick up a gun, get in your car and then chase someone a significant distance down the road you really can't, by any sensible definition, claim self defense.

[@jacobstaten2366]

Those are arguably a lot of moments that collectively represent premeditation.

[@chrislbaird]

Objection! This video very clearly lays out the issues at hand in an understandable way. Keep up the awesome job!

[@ajaystar9134]

Sustained

[@Crazieyboy15]

My chambers!!!

[@dreamcanvas5321]

Objection! that's not an objection, it's an acquiescence!

[@PotholedAxe9985]

The second the man stepped out of the truck with the shotgun in hand, the stand your ground defense should be off the table because he has now instigated a situation. Even if their intent wasn't to kill, they just followed a man, put him in a corner, and now the victim sees a shotgun. Of course Arbery would start attacking Travis, he was trying to defend himself after being cornered by a man with a shotgun. We can sit here all day and try all these 'IF" statement, like maybe if Arbery didn't try to take the weapon, the whole thing might've gone okay and he'd still be alive, meaning they didn't intend to kill him. Or, maybe if he didn't try to take the shotgun, he was still gonna be shot no matter what he did, meaning they did intend to kill him. The fact is that they trailed a man, cornered him, and instigated a conflict while armed. Intent no longer is a factor in this case, rather simply only the actions committed are. They men may not have intended to kill Arbery, but at this point it doesn't matter because of the actions they took prior to killing this man. This is Felony Murder, clear as day.

[@Scruit]

@Tracchofyre (Ga. Code Ann. § 16-5-21). Aggravated Assault. Felony. Assault statute says "Assault is also any intentional act or threat of action that reasonably causes a person to feel afraid of impending violence. " Aggravated assault is any assault that is committed with a deadly weapon. That is the felony you are looking for.

[@lluewhyn]

I'm guessing that there was similar logic with why Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger was charged (and later convicted) with murder with her shooting of Botham Jean. She probably didn't intend to shoot a man to death when she entered the apartment. However, she did enter the apartment unlawfully, and there was intent to instigate a confrontation with a deadly weapon, an event that did lead to her shooting and killing the man. Unlawfully instigating conditions that have a high probability of a person dying is treated somewhat the same as deliberately planning on killing them.

[@jameson1239]

Tracchofyre unlawful arrest

[@nR00R]

@Tracchofyre How about hitting Aubrey with their truck while chasing him? Is that a good enough felony for you?

[@GAshoneybear]

You want to know the worst part about this? I live 5 minutes away. I didn't know anything had happened. It was never published in our paper until national headlines put the story out. Then they put it on the third page.

[@kenoliver8913]

That's one newspaper I would never buy again.

[@BeautifulDove-i7u]

Oh my !!

[@Kyle_Schaff]

Imagine trying to use the “Stand Your Ground” defense after you cut someone on foot off with your truck, pulled guns out, and started yelling at him. It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic.

[@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643]

Arbery could have used the "stand your ground" defense but since he made the dumb mistake of not carrying a gun he screwed himself. Too bad, he could be alive today if he were smart enough to to protect himself with a firearm.

[@fieryweasel]

@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 He was previously convicted of crimes, odds are he couldn't legally own or carry one. The NRA never seems to be concerned about those gun rights, or at least they're significantly quieter about them. Something is not a "right" if it can be taken away with simple legislation.

[@Fawstah]

Defense lawyers have to provide the best defense they can, even if their is no defense to be had. They killed an innocent man because they were either racist or hopped up on NRA sales pitches about defending your neighborhoods. There is no good legal defense for chasing down and killing a person, let alone an innocent man.

[@friezacy7755]

@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 you mean he needed a gun to protect himself against "law abiding gun owners"? Protect himself against the often self-proclaimed "good guy with a gun" people? Interesting logic you have there...

[@stephaniezee9704]

@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 we get it, you've been brainwashed by NRA white America

[@Roman_Adrian]

Why are guns needed in a talk or a citizens arrest, for that matter?

[@MimiB1974]

#smalldickenergy

[@piggybankvillan]

I like how they're using the citizen's arrest argument. It's called a citizen's arrest, not a citizen's murder.

[@aspiringscientificjournali1505]

Ya and it's very strict in its use

[@tsgillespiejr]

I don't understand how that argument isn't immediately defeated by the fact that citizens' arrest requires being witness to criminal activity rather than mere suspicion of it.

[@Dingnutt]

@@tsgillespiejr It doesn't require being witness to the crime. You can have first hand knowledge of said crime and still be within your rights for a CA, which is what happened. What happened next was two guys got in a wrestling match with a loaded shotgun. It's sad but there is potentially no crime here on either side.

[@victoriashevlin8587]

@@Dingnutt They hunted him down, after deliberately arming themselves, accosted the man with their guns After blocking his path and you think that he's not legally entitled to defend himself?

[@Projolo]

@@victoriashevlin8587 they didn't aimed at him and you have to open carry if you have a shotgun. Someone saw him leaving private property running that is suspicious.

[@katehanami7322]

they left the castle in search of a _potentinal_ suspect committed aggravated assault while unprovoked and used lethal force while the victim was both unarmed and attempting to disengage from combat in my view, that's a clear case of vigilantism, I rest my case

[@jameskellinger8314]

Shouldn't you prove your case before you rest it?

[@faithc1524]

Imagine being surprised that someone got “violent” while pointing multiple guns at them..

[@markdouglas1601]

Seems pretty logical..not a battle you're gonna win

[@LeScratch89]

@madonn putten You're not going to outrun a motor vehicle on foot while on the street. Running isn't an option here.

[@Kylora2112]

@madonn putten The McMichaels were armed and in a pickup truck.

[@theendofit]

@@LeScratch89 they were chasing him in a pickup truck with a second truck behind them as they cut him off he was surrounded. And if he ran off the road theys use him being on others property as an excuse to shoot him in the back

[@Scarywesley4]

@madonn putten That's how you get shot in the back... I'd rather go down fighting than running.

[@diddydoe]

i have a simple rule: if you are the one that instigated the fight (the McMichael's / George Zimmerman), you can not claim self defense. self defense is a right reserved for people that are attacked (Ahmaud Arbery / Trayvon Martin).

[@Kraus-]

These two situations are complete opposites. Martin had left the situation and gone into his home. Prior to that, Zimmerman was the agressor. After Martin made the conscious decision to come back and attack Zimmerman, he gave up the justification of self defense. Five minutes is all it took for the roles to be reversed. In Arbery's lynching, there was no possible option for him to de-escalate or leave the situation. He had no ability to retreat. The lynchers maintained the status of aggressors throughout the entire incident. No matter how long the standoff could have lasted, Arbery would have held the status of victim throughout.

[@dorianleakey]

Trayvon Martin case is different as Zimmerman, though obviously racist, merely followed Martin and tried to get the police to come, and Martin tried to beat him up, if Zimmerman hadn't had a gun and killed him he would likely have got knocked out and perhaps tried to get police to track Martin down later. In that case it was the profiling by Zimmerman that got people on Martins side, there was simply no reason to follow him in the first place, it was pointless, racist and antogonistic, its not too surprising Martin did attack him. I have heard good argument that a manslaughter charge would have stuck, but not the type of murder charge they pursued.

[@dorianleakey]

@@Kraus- I thought Martin didn't get home, that he ran round the block and came up behind Zimmerman?

[@DrTimeSCPPsych]

@@dorianleakey oh right, I forgot "stand your ground" doesnt apply for black people

[@tristan5546]

When Trayvon Martin was killed he was on top of Zimmerman "ground and pounding" him. It was pretty clear self defense.

[@brentknickerbocker6023]

Potential Jury member: "I need to recuse myself because I already watched the Legal Eagle's breakdown and it will influence my interpretation of court evidence"

[@destinycircle8192]

Shortly after this story broke locally (as in, in Georgia), there were local protests. During one early one, a woman stated that it was terrible the way this wasn't properly investigated when law enforcement saw the video, but only when WE (the public) saw the video. In fact, there have been past problems in that county in the criminal justice system, and, as I'm writing this, the District Attorney for that county has been defeated in his re-election bid.

[@playsauce]

This vid was published prior to it coming out that Ahmaud had been previously struck by the vehicle chasing him.

[@zechariah22]

I think that's extremely important to note

[@Nik-ff3tu]

@Adolph Bidenkopt go away, russian

[@TheWatchfulWolf]

@Adolph Bidenkopt I find your name ironic, given Trump's far-right allies. But then again, you're probably another Russian bot, so...I don't know why I expected anything else.

[@cericat]

@@zechariah22 definitely as it gives additional context to Arbery being concerned about his pursuit by two armed men. Not that he needed anything, if I saw two guys chasing me in a pickup I'd be prepared to fight whether they were armed or not, and I'm white.

[@generalpopcorn6427]

@@zechariah22 Yes it is. It establishes that before the video had even started Ahmaud had been assaulted with a deadly weapon by the trio of attackers. This is why I still support the death penalty. Some people, like the three that murdered Ahmaud, have to go.

[@robertturni2845]

Even if he did commit a crime they didn't see him committing any crime and thus the citizen's arrest argument holds no merit Also stand your ground in no way applies when you are chasing someone down and attempting to abduct them ( again saying abduction them because they had no grounds to call this a citizen's arrest ) If the ridiculous way the District Attorney said stand your ground / self defence works then you could murder virtually anyone at any time with no reprecussions How the District Attorney acted and what he said should honestly be grounds for disbarment

[@kingRukus39]

I thought that too, but that logic didn't work out so well for Treyvon Martin's family

[@hl6965]

The crappy thing is, there is a possibility that defence could fly due to the george zimmerman verdict. The defence lawyer will probably reference the verdict in that zimmerman case to leverage the same verdict here.

[@anony1596]

@@hl6965 As if this situation wasn't bizarre enough, it gets weirder kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX6QaoF6fbiJgas

[@aspiringscientificjournali1505]

@@hl6965 nah because in the Zimmerman case the kid turned and attacked In this case the man avoided conflict 2x before attacking

[@thefirst48gaming2]

The cops told them to try to get him that's why it took so long for charges to be made they didnt want the police station to look lazy

[@KingofHearts]

Black man running? Threat to the community. 4 guys chasing him down with their trucks and guns? citizens arrest. It’s absolutely wild that the mcmichaels thought THAT video somehow exonerated them.

[@sirmoonslosthismind]

_4 guys chasing him down with their trucks and guns_ this was a lynching, pure and simple.

[@lenitaa7938]

Three guys!

[@Carlmdb]

The American dream

[@JoshSweetvale]

But it _did_ exonerate them.

[@nR00R]

@@JoshSweetvale How so? Because Aubrey "attacked" them? After running, being cut off multiple times, even being struck by their truck? What feasible defense is there for these men's actions?

[@ignitionfrn2223]

2:30 - Chapter 1 - The Mc Michaels' version of events 6:00 - Chapter 2 - Evidence from other sources 10:20 - Chapter 3 - The barnhill rescual 14:55 - Chapter 4 - Felony murder 17:10 - Chapter 5 - Self defense & stand your ground 19:50 - Chapter 6 - Citizen arrest 25:15 - End roll ads

[@myonline1985]

I hear 3 shots from presumably the shotgun. 2 first ones are out of frame and the last one, arguably the kill shot, is point blank into Arbery's chest. 1st shot: In front of the truck but out of view as mr Bryan is fiddling with the phone and coming to a stop. We see mr Arbery come out from in front of the truck crucially after the shot was fired and there was a bit of range between the two. Mr Arbery tries to knock away the shotgun only being able to reach the barrel, but quickly closes the distance and a scuffle ensues. 2nd shot: Again out of frame, the scuffle takes them off the road but we see the gases from the shot cross the video. Scuffle still going on and they come back into the frame. 3rd shot: In clear view. The son gets the upper hand, turns the shotgun into the chest of mr Arbery and fires, then proceeds to calmly back away, both parties seemingly agreeing the fight is over. Mr Arbery falls over dead shortly after. When you take into effect that the McMichaels had attempted to stop him at gun point, had cut him off when he tried to evade them and were clearly being aggressive in their tone while brandishing weapons it really shouldn't come as a surprise that he attempted to take away the shotgun. They had him backed up in a virtual corner while threatening him in a situation they themselves forced upon him. Self defense shouldn't be a thing here.

[@cf3714]

@matt becham Except Arbery didn't attack someone with a gun, as Arbery was unarmed. The Mcmichaels attacked Arbery with a gun, 3 times.

[@NoFlyZone31]

When you back any animal in a corner (including humans, all humans) they will become violent, it’s called fight or flight, Mr Arbery clearly tried to run already, and they kept following him, so his choice or fighting makes sense, especially since they have guns which have a decent range. Mr Arbery couldn’t have run fast enough to get out of range in the time he had, so he went with the best option of rushing the man with a shotgun (not knowing if the other man in the truck had a gun). Mr Arbery is right in this situation, and all three men should go to jail for murder.

[@SandsSpades]

Their self-defense argument reminds me of the time that two marines jumped me and beat me to a pulp. They were caught and arrested for assault and battery. The prosecutor opted for a bench trial (no jury, judge decides) and they claimed self-defense. One of the guys got on the stand literally said "and when he [me] went down, he kept trying to get up so we kept kicking and punching him..." -- then the Judge interrupted -- "Wait, you kept hitting him?" -- "yeah, he kept getting up and we didn't know what he was going to do!" Then the judge, in a thick southern drawl said, "well, if you were kicking me on the ground, I'd try to get up to! Didn't you think that he was trying to run away?" The guy just stared blankly at his lawyer, who slumped over. One got 36 months, the other 72 because of priors.

[@GathKingLeppbertI]

Typical bullet stoppers

[@scroogemcduck4594]

@jocaguz18 correct me if i'm wrong because my maths isn't great, but I believe 36 and 72 months are both more than a year

[@uss_04]

“Wait if he gets up he might use his right to run away to infringe on my rights of not knowing what he’s gonna do!” /kappa

[@englandderogatory9224]

Scrooge McDuck I believe they mean 36 years and 72 years, respectively

[@cptblood1981]

Depends where you were. In some places, if you are reasonably still in fear you can use that as self defense (they kept fighting after they were down) its one of those oddities of the law. That being said its gonna weigh against you and if they jumped you they were probably screwed trying to use self defense anyway.

[@Altorin]

"he became violent as we attempted to murder him" That's pretty much all I hear.

[@litorres4125]

“As we attempted to murder him” Yes consoom the propaganda

[@darksideblues135]

Yeah. That’s not what happened. Stay off of people’s property and your won’t get shot.

[@MadTwatter]

*Imagine being so close-minded that all you can see is "black man good, white man bad".* I found some stats for you: media.beam.usnews.com/c0/9d/02f99d3240a5954bc5c688f0cddc/160929-interracialkillings-graphic.png

[@Mitsurugi2424]

This That's my issue. Regardless of color...2 hicks armed with guns chased the guy down with their vehicle, then got out with said guns to confront him. It looked too me like the victim chose to try and fight off who he perceived to be an attacker after it became clear that running away wasn't an option. You come at me with a shotgun after not letting me run away, Ima try and disarm you and go down swinging too.

[@theomegajuice8660]

Only white people and cops are allowed to "fear for their lives" and fight back to protect themselves.

[@EricRedbear]

"What is your proof that man was engaged in criminal activity?" "C'mon! Just look at him!" Yep, checks out.

[@jameskellinger8314]

Yea look at him. He matches the burglar on the camera.

[@Ronokoo]

@@jameskellinger8314 He was out jogging in shorts and a t shirt. if your gonna steal from a building site. you'd take something you can actually carry stuff in.

[@jameskellinger8314]

@@Ronokoo not if you casing the place. burglars case places waiting for the right opportunity. That is standard procedure.

[@entropy8634]

@@jameskellinger8314 it has been years, the verdict is out, they are charged with felony murder. Why do you still do this? For attention?

[@picometer472]

@@entropy8634 For Justice

[@Jett-King]

"there's a black man running down the street"

[@delvadebruyn1870]

OUTRAGEOUS!

[@zackestin1368]

the guy is an ex cop, when has that not been a serious crime for them?

[@NoriMori1992]

"How dare he run down the street!"

[@kaiseanhilton8557]

Zack Estin he’s racist it was against the law when he was cop but it’s doesn’t matter because he’s was the LAW there’s so much cops get away for because it’s not on camera it’s sad but this is the way the world is

[@kaiseanhilton8557]

Zack Estin also it takes more hours to become a barber then a cop even thoe peoples lives are in there hand

[@jay2coolfau]

I'm so glad you spoke on this. As a black man, we never get the benefit of the doubt of being innocent. We are always considered the aggressor. We are always identified as suspicious. We are always considered to be armed. We are always stealing something or hurting someone with little/no evidence to support that. As a black man, that is a fear I have every day. For a lot of black people, that is a reality that makes us feel scared. It even sometimes makes us feel ashamed for being black, something that we cannot choose. It's a scary experience and it saddens me when some white people refuse to understand. I commend you so much for making this video, you have no idea.

[@GregSpence]

I'm sorry you and so many others have to live with this BS. I hope these guys get what they deserve.

[@dueldab2117]

speak For yourself.

[@Avrysatos]

And they wonder why there's riots again. This is the fourth completely innocent person shot or otherwise killed by people claiming to be on the side of the law that I've heard about just this month, and I haven't even been reading the news much!

[@christopherl1675]

I feel for you, MJ. As young white guy, I'm always given the benefit of the doubt. However, my girlfriend is black, and one time, at a fair, she was accused of stealing and I was accused of being the distraction. Her and I are both just indecisive, but the booth owner took her blackness as a presumption of guilt. I feel both lucky that I had that one rare chance to know what my girlfriend's lived experience firsthand so I can better advocate for Black people, but more than anything, I'm outraged that this is y'alls lived experience in the first place. Her and I habe had a lot of discussions about the true risk of bringing a child into this world, especially if they happen be be born darker and male. Even if we protect them as much as we can, will we still have to defend them from crimes they didn't commit? Will they even be given a chance to go to court and defend themselves, or will it be too late? I don't want to lose my life partner or child to prejudice, but it hurts my heart even more that for Black families, fear for everyone they love is impossible to escape. No matter how many other white people are convinced it is, living while Black is not a crime.

[@54jb3r7]

You kidding me? Just take Trayvon an example, the entire US went torches and pitchforks without knowing if Zimmerman was guilty. He wasn’t. Trayvon was.

[@Tellos]

To me this is murder plain and simple. As another poster stated they had no evidence they accosted him more than once proactively chasing. He does not know them they come out wielding guns! I';d have tried to fight back too once they kept cutting me off. They decided they wanted a fight they got one they should be sentenced IMO to life without parole and made examples of the limits of arguing self defense. it is not self defense if you go out seeking a fight.

[@thecornguy2286]

This is a tragedy but there was no menus rea in the incident, like he said in the video. If a lawyer brought that up and made a valid argument they could easily walk free because the actus reus and menus rea are the foundation on what is considered a crime. If u don't know little Latin actus reus(is guilty act) and menus rea(is guilty mind).

[@lipy3550]

@@thecornguy2286 Dude I see you everywhere in this comment and I see a lot of people responding to you with the timestamp. Don't pretend that you watched the video when others point out the flaw in your argument by putting a timestamp. 15:27

[@mine2012abl]

I second that. Let's cut all the B. S and sentence them to life WITHOUT parole. They were 2 v 1 with guns. They knew what they were looking for. I would suggest death sentence but I'm against death Sentencing and pro-forgiveness but life WITHOUT parole is a given

[@greyson3421]

I don’t know why he attacked me... I was just chasing him, yelling at him through a moving truck, then I threatened him, I pointed my shotgun at him, and then for some reason he attacked me. Why would he attack me?

[@jameskellinger8314]

To avoid prison dummy.

[@Ronokoo]

@@jameskellinger8314 prison for what? jogging?

[@entropy8634]

@@jameskellinger8314 Its not even trespassing until owner or uniformed officers went and inform him to stop loitering. So no, no prison time of he is still alive

[@picometer472]

@@entropy8634 Probably not. Going for a shotgun, where ever you are, will get you killed.

[@ltklaus5591]

Even if they caught him walking out of a house with a TV in his hands, what they did was excessive and it scares me to think they could get off and set a precedent. They jumped him because they thought he was a burglar. They weren't even sure he was guilty. And even if he was, did he deserve to die? They could have continued following him and called the police.

[@xiomara5147]

That’s what I’m sayinnngggg!!! 😫 My old boss is buddhist, (they believe in not harming other living things) but we live in Texas, so of course he has guns in the house. He had caught some people stealing some electronics from him once & he just ended up waving his gun around which was plenty to get the burglars to flee after & they were caught by police soon after. At first I didn’t understand why he didn’t fire off any rounds. He said maybe if his daughter was in the house he might have, but a tv? I couldn’t sleep at night if I took a life over a TV. It’s just stuff! And he’s right! I hate stand your ground laws but I think their intention was to protect you from *unintentionally* harming people who want to do harm to YOU. That should NOT give you free rein to attempt a kill-shot at anyone you please.

[@thereaction18]

Watch the black guy holding his weapon pointed at a white guy while making a citizens arrest and see how you feel about that one. Arrests are made on suspicion, not proof.

[@copo2835]

@@thereaction18 The problem is, they had no reason to be suspicious of this kid. They just saw a black kid, and decided he did it, because they lack the intellectual capacity to make sound, rational decisions. Im white, prior US military, and own several firearms, including a handgun that I carry on my person regularly. Even if I saw somebody running out of a house with a TV, I'm not going to grab my weapon and chase them down in my car, because that's what cops get paid to do. I would get a suspect description, street names and direction of travel, and call the police. I have done this with a drive by shooting that occurred in front of my apartment building in Oklahoma City. These guys didn't even have that level of justification. And, considering what part of the country they're in, if I was that kid, I would have been convinced they were going to lynch me, and reacted exactly as he did. He tried to flee, and when that option was taken from him, he attempted to defend himself. Even as a white male, had I been in his shoes, I would have been extremely concerned for my safety.

[@copo2835]

@@xiomara5147 I don't have 100% the same viewpoint as you, but I agree, I'm not shooting someone 9ver a TV. I carry a pistol regularly, but even if the kid stole a tv in front of me, I'm not chasing him down in my car and drawing down on him like that. That is what the police are for. The only way I would ever shoot somebody is if my life or somebody else's life was in immediate danger.

[@longliverocknroll5]

@@thereaction18 Yeah, except we know that they saw absolutely nothing. They admit as much in their 9-1-1 calls.

[@ImmortalKombat666]

If people start arguing about what type of person a victim is before they died, they're not arguing in good faith, they're trying to justify that person's murder

[@post-leftluddite]

Exactly, any personal information of the victim is completely irrelevant, in logic that's known as an ad hominem logical fallacy

[@potatosordfighter666]

To an extent. The amount of stupid shit I've seen people post on social media that gets them arrested has to account for something, when people convicted of felonies are showing off guns, drugs, and money on instagram.

[@mcfry13]

That's the most fair objection I've read. Knowing someone's past is important and can show a motive or pattern of behavior, but it shouldn't automatically make them guilty either. Take it into consideration, but dont let it be the main point of an argument.

[@stevenj100]

I agree but in his michael flynn analysis he uses flynn past non criminal activities as a way to justify flynns current conviction

[@Mufusm]

@@stevenj100 Yes he brought up signed statements by Flynn that he was lying.

[@tolkienfanman1]

Isn't the advise on this never let the attacker take you to a secondary location?

[@creshiell]

Let's ask John mulaney

[@winterborn735]

Yes.

[@beccag2758]

Yeah, I've always heard that you do everything in your power to NOT end up in their car and, if you unfortunately end up in their car, you work crazy hard to escape before they can stop again and better restrain you.

[@KingBobXVI]

The advice on this kind of thing is "Run; Hide; Fight" He tried to run away, but was locked in on both sides, and also he can't outrun bullets, so that's not an option. He didn't have anywhere to hide, since he was on the road between two cars of assailants, so the only option left was to fight - namely, to keep the barrel of the gun pointed away from him, and that's what he did. None of these options include "comply with the orders of people attacking you."

[@vircervoteksisto5038]

We had a very similar case last year in Snohomish county when a guy claimed self defense after he killed two people, hid their remains and destroyed video footage of the incident. He's now a convicted inmate in the Washington State Department of Corrections.

[@jameskellinger8314]

what was his life like before he killed those two people? just curious

[@DeannaJacksonDJsDelectables]

If I was just jogging down the street and two good ole boys came after me with guns, I would run, too!!

[@KMC5240]

Yep. I ain't stopping. Even if they say that they're making a citizens arrest, I'm not just gonna take their word for it. I don't know what their true motives are. For all I know, I'm about to be robbed or kidnapped.

[@darksideblues135]

But you wouldn’t have that happen. You would not burglarize a property would you? But we are losing focus. Let’s talk about the real tragedy. That poor white couple murdered set the cemetery or that whit man stabbed at the gas station. Every day white people are hunted.

[@DeannaJacksonDJsDelectables]

@@darksideblues135 There is no evidence of any burglary, but that doesn't seem to stop trigger happy folks itching to shoot people.

[@DeannaJacksonDJsDelectables]

@@KMC5240 Exactly!

[@420jahlion]

@Bernie Sanders represents the White Male Patriarchy wow cant get any more crazy than your comment

[@dorianleakey]

Its funny when legally trained people are giving an opinion on an ongoing case and trying to be responsible, for a phrase like "thats, probably not the case" for circumstances the rest of us would say "thats obviously bulshit"

[@cake_knight183]

They're lawyers. Theirs is the language of nuances.

[@robertnett9793]

That's the reason why we let courts deal with legal issues and not biased angry people. I don't defend the people who shot the guy, by the way. But it's just a few hundred years we evolved away from blood feuds, duels and vendettas.

[@shea5287]

It's funny how think a legally trained person can't speak on a case they aren't involved in because you don't like what they said.. but any other person such as yourself can speak about the case

[@dorianleakey]

@@shea5287 Who are you responding to? if its me, what do you think i am saying here? Its like you clicked on the wrong comment to respond to.

[@neolexiousneolexian6079]

@@robertnett9793 It took thousands of years to start winding down the angry blood feuds, but it only took a couple decades to start them right back up again with social media! Truly, human use of technology is *amazing*!

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

Problem with this is that we’ll only ever get one side of the story. The McMichaels can come up with whatever story they want and Aubrey is in no position to contradict them.

[@ericdaniel323]

He said that in the video.

[@Kraus-]

Even with the most generous benefit of the doubt, every action they took was both dangerous and unjustified. This wasn't like Trayvon Martin who had gone into his home and came back out to fight. Zimmerman was justified in self defense only because Martin made the conscious decision to attack him after previously leaving the situtation. If Martin had accosted Zimmerman and been shot in an altercation before that, Zimmerman would not have had the justification of self defense. This situation is more relevant to the latter. Armed lynchers accosting a victim who had no choice other than to fight for his life. Arbery had no ability to retreat. There was no possible way for Arbery to de-escalate or run from his attackers. The cut and dry right of self-defense only applied to Arbery. The lynchers held all of the power in the situation and chose to initiate the murder while in commission of felony assault.

[@laurenpinschannels]

@@Kraus- or if you're a lawyer add "probably" to all of that I guess, based on how he always adds probably to literally everything he says about any potential classification of an act

[@sabin97]

@@Kraus- actually this was almost exactly like the trayvon martin case.....except there were two murderers instead of one. and they chased him on a pickup truck instead of on foot. black man is chased by murderers with guns. black man tries to defend himself. murderers shoot him dead. racist pieces of shit dig up dirt on the victim trying to rationalize the murder.... if you are chasing someone, that literally is stalking them.... you're not just walking around minding your own business.....you are actively chasing someone, they hav eevery right to fear for their lives. specially if you're armed.

[@jameskellinger8314]

...by his own choice

[@maple7093]

Even if this is a terrible case, I still can imagine Ahmaud running on his jogs and somebody just watering his flowers yelling "Hi Ahmaud! Daily jog again?"

[@floof_croissant]

And ahmaud replying “yes sir/ma’am” and smiling 😢

[@jameskellinger8314]

That's a beautiful picture in your mind. Can you paint a beautiful picture for us where he goes to the high school gym with a hand gun?

[@cardboard_shaft]

@@floof_croissantand then getting put on a t shirt 💔

[@Aarzu]

Cards on the table here, I live in the southern U.S., am a gun owner, have a LTC, and I'm a supporter of the Castle Doctrine and Stand-Your-Ground laws. I'm also white, if that's relevant to anyone. With issues like this, I try to think like I was on the jury for the case. As many have pointed out, this incident is very similar to the infamous Treyvon Martin shooting, where Stand-Your-Ground was also cited. The bottom line of this whole thing is Stand-Your-Ground does not apply when you pursue someone. That was taught in the concealed carry classes I took in two states. Likewise, Citizen's Arrests have to take place during a crime in progress. Pursuing someone with the intent to hold them because you don't recognize them from your neighborhood does not warrant a Citizen's Arrest. The men involved in this should have known better. They made a very serious mistake and they have to pay for it. Whether they were actively malicious, stupid, or both remains to be seen, but with their work history they most certainly should have known better. DO. NOT. EVER. pursue someone not actively involved in a crime if you intend to play cop. I'd argue not pursuing anyone at all. This shouldn't have happened.

[@longliverocknroll5]

It's far more likely that there "work history" is why this happened. Much like with Zimmerman pretending that he was some form of neighbourhood-appointed guard, these men wanted to play pretend PI and the cops in their area allowed and facilitated it to happen. Over-privileged people in positions of authority and power+weapons=violent abuse of power.

[@DaDunge]

There's also the question of why they brought guns. If they suspected he was armed, then there is no good reason to follow him, if they don't then there is no need for the guns.

[@RojaJaneman]

This is exactly why citizens arrests r dangerous thing. While majority of citizens are decent and smart it only takes like one percent to be crooked or dumb to cause chaos.

[@stephen0793]

@@longliverocknroll5 absolutely. their work history taught them this prejudiced mindset in the first place. This is southern good ol' boy mentality on full display

[@siliconplayer3184]

The pursuit was not the problem. Yes, stand your ground can apply while pursuing a person. You have the right to pursue someone if you feel like it, and your pursuit of them gives them no right to assault you. If you've pursued someone and they decide like Trayvon Martin did, to assault you, then you've got the right to defend yourself....as long as you haven't done anything *else* that you *don't* have the right to do. This is why Zimmerman was acquitted: Martin attacked a man who had done nothing that was outside of his legal rights. The McMichaels, by contrast, attempted to block Arbery with their truck and threatened to shoot him with no right to do so. They can't claim "stand your ground" not because they pursued him - but because they went way beyond mere pursuit.

[@22KaTsh]

"Good guys with Guns" scare the sh*t outta me!

[@killero00]

22KaTsh these are not good guys with guns, that is just an excuse for murder happy people to carry arms

[@Captainyoshi11]

Yeah man cause it's that black and white

[@zac-1]

some of these people are just looking for a reason to use their gun and feel like a hero

[@FollowingUsernamesR]

Isn't it weird how they only seem to apply that "logic" to white people?

[@-JonnyBoy-]

They don't me cause I'm not out 12 miles away from my house "jogging" and attacking said person with the gun

[@JJoeisCooking]

No one needs to speak to any stranger who approaches them. That does not make them a criminal.