Laws Broken: Dark Knight (Can Batman Use Self Defense? How Many People Did the Joker Kill?)

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This week we’re covering the greatest movie Batman movie ever made -- perhaps the greatest superhero movie of all time: The Dark Knight.
Today we’re answering two different questions. Since we know the Joker is doing all kinds of illegal things I tallied up all the different crimes to determine HOW MANY life sentences. Because there is a lot of murder. For Batman, we answer the question, can he use the self-defense justification to fight crime? Or is Batman just as guilty as the criminals he fights?
Who is legally responsible for all the death and destruction?
Find out today!
Stay until the end when tally up the sentences for both the Joker and Batman.
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Have you ever watched a movie and thought “that looks illegal.” It probably is! Welcome to Laws Broken, a series on LegalEagle where I tackle your favorite movies and show you how legally irresponsible they are.
As a lawyer, it’s hard for me to watch movies, because I’m constantly thinking about how the main characters are breaking the law or opening themselves up for civil liability. But my pain is your entertainment!
Got a non-legal movie that seems illegal? Let me know in the comments!
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★More series on LegalEagle★
Real Lawyer Reacts: goo.gl/hw9vcE
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Real Law Review: goo.gl/NHUoqc
All clips used for fair use commentary, criticism, and educational purposes. See Hosseinzadeh v. Klein, 276 F.Supp.3d 34 (S.D.N.Y. 2017); Equals Three, LLC v. Jukin Media, Inc., 139 F. Supp. 3d 1094 (C.D. Cal. 2015).
Typical legal disclaimer from a lawyer (occupational hazard): This is not legal advice, nor can I give you legal advice. Sorry! Everything here is for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. Nothing here should be construed to form an attorney client relationship. Also, some of the links in this post may be affiliate links, meaning, at no cost to you, I will earn a small commission if you click through and make a purchase. But if you click, it really helps me make more of these videos!
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[@ImmortalMarshmallow]

Joker: Literally holding a hostage at gunpoint with intentions of throwing her out the window of a building LegalEagle: *yeah ok so here the Batman is loitering*

[@nicklord650]

YEAH I CANT GET OVER THAT XD

[@jerredbosschieter5717]

In this situation and correct me if im wrong i fail to see how batman is wrong to defend the people of the party. Maybe cause he broke the law at the time by kidnapping Dent but they CLEARLY threatened people from the start. surprised you dont have more likes

[@ziggyzaggy8840]

@@jerredbosschieter5717 If I understand it correctly, civilian's duty is to avoid conflict and notify the police. If a terrorist group is holding people hostage, the last thing the police wants are a bunch of civilians running in guns ablazing. Batman is considered a civilian since vigilante is illegal.

[@jerredbosschieter5717]

@@ziggyzaggy8840 I don't think it's necessarily against the law to protect someone else though right?

[@ziggyzaggy8840]

@@jerredbosschieter5717 Yes, as long as you can argue self defence (including self defence for a third party) The issues with Batman arguing self defence with deadly force are 1) The agressor must be an imminent threat and intends to use deadly force. (Possibly arguable but Joker hasn't attacked or killed anyone in the party) 2) Batman is the agressor. (He landed the first blow) 3) In a dangerous situation (multiple armed thugs w hostages), civilians have a duty to withdraw, if they can. So if you see an insane man about to shoot a kid, and you shoot him first, you fullfill all the conditions above. But if you see a guy with a bunch of armed men threatening an old lady and you open fire (or even beat them all up with your fist, lol), then it becomes more difficult to argue.

[@hsfhanaa]

"Cute magic trick, still first degree murder." What a sentence

[@jlaw131985]

The fun bit is that kind of injury is actually pretty survivable.

[@clownworldhereticmyron1018]

@@jlaw131985 yeah, depends on where exactly the pencil went in + luck.

[@jameson1239]

Jim Lawrence would you like a pencil jammed all the way onto your eye

[@joelrichardson5139]

Jameson Dymond well duh, no one wants that, but you’re more likely to live through it than die from it.

[@Adjuni]

And they say lawyers have no sense of humour.

[@legocontrollerjr]

Joker: *Takes a hostage and puts a gun to her head* Legal Eagle: Okay so here we have a loitering violation.

[@theoriginalshew]

In his own home too. That party was at Bruce's property

[@rauljulio5396]

That was a very weak point. In 6:00 he explains self-defense and I think Joker henchmen are obviously about to use unlawful physical force. In 6:50 he explains the use of deadly force as self-defense, and again, it seems to me that it is obvious that Joker and his gang are about to use deadly force against Batman and his guests, it is HIS HOME ( 7:20 ), and it is reasonable to assume that the gang would probably kidnap or just rape Rachel, and rob everyone at the party, IF Batman wasn't there to kick their asses and save the lady. So that part doesn't make any sense... but I liked the video.

[@DownWithBureaucracy]

@@theoriginalshew objection! It isn't in public, it's private property and thus not loitering

[@YouJustJealous]

@Raul Julio I think it makes perfect sense. Bruce is allowed in his own home, BATMAN is not. Batman is also a wanted criminal. He’s not allowed to be there and he was absolutely assaulting and battering people.

[@jerome1lm]

@@YouJustJealous Why would he not be allowed to be there if Bruce invites him to the party?

[@kurochi89]

I find it somewhat ironic that the joker can terrorize an entire city for a few weeks, kill dozens of people, ATTEMPT to kill hundreds of people and still get a lighter sentence than Batman simply for one trick of a phone.

[@rogerhill1030]

Well, there is something that Devon glosses over, and that is where the charges are being filed. The computer hacking charges violate federal law, not state law, so the Joker would get more time in NY state. They would likely not be serving time together in Arkham, as Bruce would probably get shipped off to a federal super max prison.

[@kuno3336]

In comics, the cops go WAY HARDER when it comes to going after a superhero they think has killed a supervillain than they ever did after that same villain. Every time. That Batman would be guilty of more crimes in his war on crime seems to follow that same theme. The moral of the story, of course, is that superheroes make cops look bad, so they need to be taught a lesson.

[@theparadigm8149]

@@rogerhill1030 Yes, that’s true! Understanding the difference between federal crimes and state crimes is vital here

[@Oznerock]

That's because sentences aren't supposed... to stack like that? Hacking a million phones or half a million is likely to land you the same time - and if you didn't get that much personal info, credit card stuff, and... well didn't use that information to commit crimes you will be hard pressed to find a judge nor jury that will give you a sentence harsher than what you'd have for a single murder charge. Regardless batman just gets a presidential pardon for saving literally millions of lives in the previous movie, and then hundreds upon hundreds more with that phone trick. And then you consider that he was for some reason considering his force lethal - when he was mostly unarmed and in fact had a death toll of Ras Al Ghul (Very justifiable self defense against a terrorist trying and succeding to kill millions if not for batman), Harvey Dent (Very justifiable self defense - literally saving a baby and a man), and... maybe Bane or Talia in the last movie I don't remember but they were in the middle of a terrorist act so again justifiable self-defense. Batman's status as a living weapon as far as martial arts goes means he... can very easily control if he's using lethal force and since no one dies other than these people then that makes that just... Very nonlethal (but still painful) force under every jurisdiction. You can look at one scene and say "NO WAY THAT'S NON-LETHAL" but if you look at 100 and all 100 live... then yeah it's non-lethal and any jury will agree.

[@Da1337Man]

@@Oznerock Or the fact that in the Dark Knight Rises, he stops a nuclear bomb from going off in a city of millions. That's the kind of shit that changes civilization itself. I would hope that that warrants having any and all charges dropped against you.

[@nekophilia9400]

"I still don't understand how Batman and Rachel survived that fall." I guess you could say they broke the laws of physics.

[@draekingston]

Gliding cape reduced the speed of their fall. Batman landed on his back with his armored suit to protect Rachael.

[@GeorgeBratcherIII]

Where's a Physics court & judge when you need them? LOL! The Physics Police should have taken Batman in for breaking the laws! LOL!

[@JJuiicceee]

Stolen comment

[@fruitymcfruitcake9674]

@@GeorgeBratcherIII Lmao this makes me want to analyze that entire scene to find his (and consequently her) rate of acceleration. Current record of survival is 214Gs (dude launched out of his car on a race track and slammed into a wall), but that guy was severely injured and if I'm not mistaken, the previous record was 83.

[@Wilbtube]

@@draekingston Collision research suggests that her internal organs might rupture when her downward speed is suddenly reduced. For instance the oarta might tear when the heart, still travelling at the speed of gravity, bumps into the sternum that is abruptly travelling at the speed of the batcape...

[@FrostbringerSaLance]

Objection: During the party scene, that was actually taking place in his own home, so bruce wayne/Batman would be justified in using force in that one instance

[@abarainosa]

To elaborate upon that point: The Joker had threatened not 1 but 2 people while holding the entire party hostage while inside of Bruce Wayne's Penthouse; property he very likely owns himself. Therefore, it could be argued that Bruce Wayne is justified to intervene in the defense of Rachel and the other brave old guy for not only that reason. We also know that Joker has already killed multiple people and has made threats to continue to do so via his terrorist threat against the city. It is perfectly reasonable to believe, because of his threat, he was planning to use deadly force against Rachel. This also extends to Joker's goons, as they have conspired with him thus far, so they are equally liable based on your own statements about the bank scene. So using force against them should also be justified in this case.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Defense of a third party or, in this case, your party guests.

[@andrewchapman1494]

I was wondering if Batman would be able to use the self defense argument in that scene. Since no one but Rachel knows Bruce Wayne is Batman I think batman himself would be considered a third party preventing a crime. If he revealed himself to be Bruce Wayne on the trial then maybe self defense could apply. I'm not sure though. I hope he responds to this

[@jordanwilliams2660]

He's also not in a public place, so loitering would also not apply

[@evantummillo6568]

Was going to say the same thing. Though maybe LegalEagle is suggesting that Batman and Bruce Wayne should be viewed as two separate entities, and that apart from the Batcave, Batman has no fixed address that could be considered a home?

[@adamjohnsonstudio7910]

Guy murders someone Lawyer: "That's murder" Me: "Oh, I see"

[@Whisper_292]

He's counting aloud.

[@dearmas9068]

This would have been a nice opportunity to use editing rather than an explanation. He could have set up a murder-counter graphic that pops up and a little 'ding' sound whenever there was murder. Then just make acknowledging facial expressions at each one, and occasionally expound on specific details. If I were his editor, I would have suggested that.

[@duncansiror5033]

@@dearmas9068 good idea

[@independentthoughtsnotthot9030]

@@achillesandhispal4196 😂

[@K1NG0FW0LV35]

what? I thought it was vandalism.

[@RandyMarsh0301]

Objection: batman is in his home and defending himself and his guest from intruders who have deadly weapons....hes just doing it while he wears his spelunking gear.

[@lightinggamer2312]

Exactly he basically owns Gotham

[@skylar5257]

Also worst come to worst he doesn’t press charges on Batman I guess lol.

[@assassindelasaucisse.4039]

Bruce Wayne's property, not Batman's.

[@Profile__1]

​@@skylar5257"I'm not gonna press charges against that nutcase. He's way too cool and dangerous anyway."

[@thomasfleming8131]

Also not technically Loitering in that one scene, right? Since that's Bruce's apartment/penthouse/entire building

[@antona.1327]

Legal system: Joker, you're going to jail. Batman: That's right, Joker! You will pay for your crimes. Justice prevails. Legal system: You're going to jail too, Batman. *Batman magically vanishes from the scene*

[@godzillavkk]

That's actually quite common in the comics.

[@zombified_pariah7720]

Batman: *AIGHT IMMA HEAD OUT*

[@theprogressiveblackguy1195]

LEGAL EAGLE: That's fleeing the scene of the crime

[@voiceofreason467]

Batman: You can't arrest me I'm Batman. Also Legal system: Well... okay.

[@LokiTheClever]

@KRYMauL Insanity plea could even be applied possibly

[@3nails4you]

Joker threatens Rachel with a gun unless Batman takes off his mask. "OK here we have a clear loitering violation..." Just about lost it there

[@classact9557]

Legal Eagle: 60 million years in prison for illegal wiretapping and other computer crimes. NSA: Profusely sweating bullets

[@Idk-bs6in]

It's kinda funny how Batman's Legal Sentence is 5 Times longer than The Joker's Sentence Batman's being 60 million years, while The Joker's Sentence is 12 Million Years Yeah...why is the "Good Guy's" Sentence Worse than the "Bad Guy's" Sentence?? This still shocks me

[@abdullahnisar2219]

@@Idk-bs6in Not 12 million, 12,000 which makes it even more insane because its 5,000 times more. But it does make sense. The Joker gets more years per count of murder wheras Batman only gets around 2 years per count of computer trespass, its just that he hacked the entire city's population. If the Joker had murdered the same number of people his sentence would be significantly greater than 60 million.

[@demianhopstaken3786]

"Batman. I hereby find you guilty on 58 counts of battery." "For the 10th time today...WHATS "TERY"?

[@VivioSaf]

I laughed a lot more than I should!

[@dunmermage]

"You know who Tery is in few decades, Bruce."

[@valiyapurakkalNarayanankutty]

Now that's genuinely funny. Probably batman doing batman things is him indulging in 'Bat-tery'.

[@benherrshlim]

Terry McGinnis

[@chrisallie4343]

A triple a battery

[@TheArtofDeduction_Official]

objection: in the scene where batman commits battery against the joker's henchmen in his penthouse, you said self-defense wouldn't apply because he had the opportunity to withdraw. However, given that the penthouse that batman is fighting these henchmen in is owned by Bruce Wayne, meaning that it is his own home, wouldn't he not be required to withdraw?

[@astaut2659]

But he will have to reveal his identity Assuming he did, then its self defense If not, it’s trespassing

[@TheArtofDeduction_Official]

@@astaut2659 I mean I was assuming that all these laws apply to Batman the moment he’s unmasked and taken into custody by the police... because as is clear by his evasion of law enforcement they can’t do anything if they can’t catch him lol

[@astaut2659]

@@TheArtofDeduction_Official but the police will be not cooperating and just hunting for like a mad man

[@allankalynchuk8409]

Not in Canada, in Canada you are obligated to run away if you can. I was convicted of assault years ago after someone broke into my home while I was eating supper.The judge told me that I should have ran out the back door

[@Jmanclub-vd7mg]

Allan Kalynchuk, that sucks.

[@j0ndav1s]

Legal eagle: "you can't just hack everybody's phone. That's 30 million felonys." The NSA: "hold my beer"

[@buddythemoth]

Srsly why doesn't this have more replies

[@project4061]

Right, Edward Snowdon... Seeing that scene reminded me of what the U.S. did.

[@willh3972]

The NSA and the expanded patriot act. Though I thought it was really nice moment when he makes the system self destruct.

[@Absoluteunit3027]

Literally my first thought

[@3EBstudio]

Bruce wayne still can post for bail

[@Mrgentlemans_vault]

Objection: during the scene that the joker drops Rachel Batman is technically in his home so he wouldn’t be loitering and also you could say he’s defending his home from intruders.

[@keldzh]

It's his office. I think he owns the building, but I don't know could it be count as home, especially when we know he has a mansion where he sleeps.

[@tiffles3890]

That is Bruce Wayne's property. And legally it is not on record that Batman is Bruce Wayne.

[@tiffles3890]

@@nohigherbeing If Batman were unmasked and it turned out he was Bruce Wayne, then at least he wouldn't be charged with loitering. Also in this context, we're talking of Batman 's legal liabilities while he's unmasked and the authorities are unaware of his true identity, so your comment is irrelevant.

[@MichaelLayneWeston]

​@@keldzh His Mansion was destroyed in the previous movie. It was a penthouse. We see his bedroom there.

[@MidwestToku]

Let’s just say that Bruce Wayne doesn’t press charges against Batman on that front.

[@Impossible326]

When he is pointing out the crimes The Joker has committed, it almost sounds like an award show for him.

[@YingofDarkness]

That is pretty much how the Joker would take it to be honest. If anything, the Joker is going to be mad that Batman is supposed to be serving more life sentences then him.

[@ahmadnaufal3730]

@@YingofDarkness The Batman even beat the Joker at being a criminal lol.

[@thomasredmond5793]

Oh if the joker existed in real life, he would be crying in happiness of how people admire his work and will award him for his great moments :p

[@thomasredmond5793]

@@YingofDarkness I wouldn't doubt that, I believe he would be extremely offended and challenged to outbeat the bats in life sentences lmfao

[@Krahazik]

Ahmad Naufal Only because of the hacking incident. Until that was tallied in, Batman was fairly low on the jail time compared to the joker.

[@carloscaro9121]

Children: Batman's awesome! Edgelords: The Joker's right! LegalEagle: They're both incredibly criminally liable.

[@cynicalaudax]

The joker had 12000 years, but batman had 60 million. They are in NO way even.

[@toledoseahawks3348]

@@cynicalaudax Joker hat 12.000 years

[@cynicalaudax]

@@toledoseahawks3348 Whoops forgot a zero

[@danielcebastionmunizYT]

DCAFS: Screw da law

[@Mangel-tz5fi]

@@cynicalaudax The Joker had 12000 years AND 35 life sentences. Batman got 190 years without the hole phone hacking stuff, which probably would get counted as a couple of serious crimes. So in general you can say Batman had a couple of life sentences and the Joker a massivly impossible number of life sentences

[@FalloutPlays]

If you had a channel about laws in Middle Earth, would we be Legal Smeagol's

[@dreamcanvas5321]

What a precious idea!

[@nathangamble125]

Or we could be... Filthy legal Hobbitses!

[@ZekeAxel]

But Eagles actually exist in the Middle Earth... Like, HUGE EAGLES

[@DirkAustin]

Nope, Legal Trouble because copyright. Lol.

[@CadetGriffin]

@@DirkAustin But he's a copyright attorney so he should be able to save himself in that case.

[@xplosiv211]

Moral of the story, if Batman would've just killed the joker the first time he saw him, he would've gotten 20-35 years in prison vs the 65 million he would've gotten by the end

[@EarlBiggs]

Yes but in the Comic books The Joker only wanted the bat to kill him but knew he wouldn't ever do it

[@EarlBiggs]

Also Just a nother thing to note in the 90's batman he did kill him Jack Nicholson's Joker The OG Joker death so your moral is off

[@megamanxtreme2]

@@EarlBiggs That could fall under involuntary manslaughter, then again the two Tim Burton movies seem intended to make Batman murder. (Unrelated, but the problem there is that the thugs weren't paying attention to the fact that his foot was tied to a heavy gargoyle statue, or they would have addressed the problem by landing at the top of the cathedral to clear it up. Of course Batman is still there and they might have urgency to dodge the area entirely.)

[@rickA31]

Joker: *Kills someone* Lawyer: that’s murder

[@Deerhunter60641]

Woah! Really?

[@captaindeadpool313]

In other news Water=Wet

[@kkmdew09]

Don’t forget 4:58, just the garden variety of murder.

[@beccag2758]

Captain Deadpool in other _other_ news, fire is hot

[@TonyZhuViz]

omg that's amazing! i never knew that!

[@AynRKey]

18:25 - Objection, you overlooked "practicing medicine without a license" on the part of the Joker.

[@nicb9273]

Agreed, iirc he is changing a bag at one point.

[@Dark_Mishra]

Depends if the Joker did the implanting of the phone himself, but yes, he would still be charged with the involvement of the crime.

[@ricardozk]

And the time he dressed up as a nurse. I heard that it's a crime to dress up as a doctor in a hospital without license. Maybe it's also a crime if you dress up as a nurse.

[@cheriberry3]

@@ricardozk yeah but wasn't it like a Halloween costume? I mean he was doing it to pass as a nurse, but would it still count?

[@ShipwreckedMates]

"Cute magic trick, also first degree murder" will stand as the best opening line of all time

[@justinmaitland7335]

It is possible that the person didn't die. They would want to, but still be alive.

[@Blokewood3]

That guy was clearly about to attack Joker.

[@ShipwreckedMates]

@@Blokewood3 we don’t know his intentions. He just as likely could’ve guided the Joker out peacefully

[@LadyOnikara]

Also the weapon used successfully by John Wick. The pencil is a rather effective weapon.

[@erikkennedy8725]

I believe Because Science addressed this, and the injuries sustained would not probably be lethal. Just potentially brain damaging.

[@readsomebooks666]

Regarding the loitering charges: would the Joker’s face paint qualify as sufficiently disguising him to also get charged?

[@thefinnishbaconshroom]

I don't think it would matter much on top of 12 000 years in prison

[@readsomebooks666]

@@thefinnishbaconshroom Not the point of the question, you little troll. Go away.

[@gabeparks8173]

@@thefinnishbaconshroom In that case, it was irrelevant on top of Batman's 60 million

[@thefinnishbaconshroom]

@@gabeparks8173 I mean, after one life sentence, all the other charges are just for vanity

[@deadeyemidget0892]

"Of course you can trust me. I'm an attorney." Yeah? So is Harvey Dent.

[@joeyfigueroa4748]

Ooof

[@laughingstone4210]

That's a great point if LegalEagle had ever had the chance to go against Batman / Bruce Wayne in court.

[@masterkenobi2119]

Harvey Dent,can we trust him?

[@taylorscott1320]

But... I thought that was the joke...

[@mrPlayAndSay]

reminds me of the scene from "justice league action" Good Harvey side: I can't be confused with you, you're a soulless criminal and professional thief, were I'm a Lawyer Bad Harvey side: I guess we got more in common than I thought. have a great day ^^

[@HagakureJunkie]

Legal Eagle: "I was really creeped out when Batman hacked everyone's phones." Me: "Sit down and let me tell you about the NSA...."

[@piecrumbs9951]

Who did nothing illegal...

[@ShangZilla]

@@piecrumbs9951 Have you ever read your own constitution?

[@XDrakeX1]

Spying on the whole world is nothing illegal? Wtf?

[@farenhite4329]

XDrakeX1 if your rich/the government.

[@Landoft]

Batman and Joker: Literally a vigilante constantly evading police and other guy a clown mob boss. LegalEagle: Is this legal?

[@TheEmpiresStrongest]

Well vigilante helping out the police the other is a clown boss that just wants to see the world burn.

[@twilight_lupinesilva4691]

It depends

[@williamjones3480]

“Of course, you can trust me. I’m an attorney.” I’m trying to figure out if I’m right that this was a joke or if he meant it.

[@LukeThompson156]

Leagle Eagle: "Cute magic trick... still first degree murder." Can't stop laughing about that one.

[@stayfoot11]

Hahaha. What a magic trick hahaha

[@LukeThompson156]

@@stayfoot11 does he go kids parties?!

[@LancsKid1]

Only problem there is it is not murder unless death is confirmed as you can survive a pencil to the head through the eye, though still a crime.

[@Dark_Mishra]

@@LancsKid1 I’m going to guess he ultimately doesn’t survive that due to the length of the pencil.

[@karmaakatsuki7235]

same

[@hannahsypniewski7356]

Objection: Batman is a billionaire. Hes not going to jail.

[@JoelCarli]

_oh daaaaamn_

[@calvincardwell6562]

Hannah Sypniewski hahaha underrated comment

[@Whimsy3692]

He has to get awful orange skin first...

[@joshm.9427]

@@Whimsy3692 haha, orange man bad

[@thomasackerman5399]

@@Whimsy3692 ... or one of the Clintons.

[@NPC1921]

Joker: Slaughtering SWAT cars and innocent policemen This guy: Batman's motorcycle is not licensed to drive in the NY streets

[@toomanyfandoms1684]

the point of this is to point out all of the crimes both do. Even if some are small.

[@speedy01247]

His vehicle literally shoots explosive rounds.

[@dogestranding5047]

Slaughtering cars?

[@danielaramburo7648]

His motorcycle was not illegal, it was undocumented.

[@ice2132]

NO MORE DEAD COPS!

[@finn274]

13:50 Objection: Batman owns the property they are fighting at, remember Bruce Wayne was hosting the party. So he could still call for self defense since they invaded his private property.

[@tonybarrett8543]

Batman doesn't own the property, batman does not even reside at the property. If I walk onto your property and you ask me to leave dressed as Mickey Mouse without identifying who you really are I don't have to treat you as property owner. Bruce Wayne as such could be arrested for incitement, entrapment, the list goes on...

[@finn274]

@@tonybarrett8543 it doesn’t matter how you dress if someone is invading your property without permission ( joker didn’t call up Bruce and ask for a inv ) than they are still trust passing and he does own the building he literally sneaks into one of his escape hatche than dresses up as Batman and comes back and if you look at earlier scenes in the movie it shows bruise in the same apartment just in his bedroom

[@finn274]

Plus this is Bruce Wayne we’re talking about the man who literally bought a restaurant just because he couldn’t swim inside of a pool

[@TheLeviathan1293]

If anything, Batman couldn't defend himself without revealing his identity.

[@mikeb6085]

​@Tony Barrett Ehhh... that's like saying someone hosting a Halloween party suddenly ceases to own their house as long as they're in their costume lol

[@oafkad]

Man gets stabbed in the brain with a pencil. "Cute Magic Trick." Ok, well I know which attorney I'm not making mad.

[@MAOofDC]

Well to be honest it a kind of funny moment if you like "black, dark, or gallows" humor. It's the "Ta Da!" at the end.

[@mageyuri]

There's actually evidence of the pencil trick happening and not killing people. kzbin.info/www/bejne/apmrhJiaf56kp7c

[@samuelraymond5852]

Ya, I saw that too, made a separate comment because I didn't see it here. Not 1st degree murder for this one imo.

[@jdd5672]

Pretty sure a pencil is not going through your skull, especially the forehead which is the thickest part.

[@AngDavies]

@@jdd5672 eyes...I'll leave it at that, :/

[@andrewjohnson6716]

13:55 Ironically if the Joker succeeds at outing Bruce Wayne as the Batman, he would immediately given him the self-defence legal position and negate the loitering charge since the Joker was invading Bruce Wayne’s home.

[@Chiefhomer89]

I was looking for this comment as well before posting mine. If you’re in your own home, but also masked, does that make it self defense? Or do you need to have announced yourself as owner/allow witnesses to see you? Not sure how that works

[@star-du6vp]

In the main issue joker was threatening to kill that girl so you can use self-defense to protect somebody else

[@Clatatata]

Objection: This is Gotham. Gotham has about 5 laws

[@oldreaddy3341]

1: Don't 2: Annoy 3: Batman 4: Or 5: Else

[@SomeRandomPangolin]

Actualy one which is Let batman do as he wishes

[@DS-tv2fi]

C R When did they get their second?

[@viktornapolitano6113]

Five that are followed. There are others.

[@CLBOO6]

@@oldreaddy3341 lol🤣

[@PTDeimos]

So basically, whenever they get Batman in court, and I'd love to see how exactly they'd pull that off, when the time comes to read out the crimes I can only assume it's going to be this huge roll of paper and they're let it roll out in the court room, followed by "honestly there's just too many to count".

[@stever1705]

Joker is looking at a sentence of over 1000 years, and yet somehow Megamind has a longer prison sentence

[@ryanjapan3113]

Actually Joker’s sentence would probably about 12,000 years iirc.

[@efulmer8675]

Megamind was serving 85 life sentences, which if we take a life sentence to be 100 years, then that's 8500 years. The Joker's total was about 12000 years, so Megamind was giving The Joker a run for his money but even he couldn't quite do it.

[@usdepartmentoftreasuryinte6052]

"oh you're a villain alright! *just not a super one!* "

[@charlespedersen5752]

@@usdepartmentoftreasuryinte6052 no, jokers got presentation. he is suitably flamboyant

[@lumiereeclair]

@@charlespedersen5752 Jack Nicholson's Joker had the presentation, Heath Ledger was just a better representation of sociopath Joker.

[@ckillgore]

The opening line of "Cool magic trick, also first degree murder" reminds me of the line from Brooklyn 99, "Cool motive, still murder". 😂

[@zorokaz7496]

Christian Killgore 99! Sorry, i just get excited when someone mentions the show 😅

[@FallenAngel-lk8bm]

@@zorokaz7496 The show is awesome

[@zorokaz7496]

Fallen angel1722 i know!

[@spornge]

Reminds me of an SVU with Ice T whom I wish got more air time when he says "yeah I get it , you are a pervert pedophile!"

[@sheggy3658]

👏🏿👏🏿😂😂😂😂

[@zentrader1073]

Objection: You forgot littering when the Joker dropped all those cards after blowing up the judge.

[@felixd6001]

Yayyy ! * approving mumblings in background from members of the Chamber of Commons *

[@peterf.229]

@The Legend of Texas I got a 50 dollar fine and had to clean up the garbage ;)

[@tenkenroo]

Littering is a misdemeanor. A police officer would have to be see the joker do it

[@19youtubian72]

In the grand scheme of the Joker's crimes, this is probably at the bottom of the list. LOL

[@tenkenroo]

@@NonDescriptEntity2024 no an infraction is something like a basic speeding ticket

[@IgnasA.164]

Joker :12000 Years in prison Batman: 60 milion years in prison Joker : Huh, and everyone says that im a bad guy !

[@kilborn666]

@@MrNineFive 35 lifetimes still wouldn't come anywhere near close to 60 million years. To put it in perspective, modern humans have only existed for about 200,000 years.

[@kilborn666]

@@MrNineFive You only become eligible for parole after serving one third of your sentence, so batman would have to serve 20 million years (lol) to qualify.

[@PeterPiper247]

Just because you are badguy, does not mean you are a bad guy...

[@SirApplesauce]

Could you please prove the math... and in which timeline?

[@xXevilsmilesXx]

D:

[@avres13]

I have trouble believing a jury would convict Batman.

[@me-myself-i787]

They certainly would. Everyone hates Batman since he killed Harvey Dent.

[@skcocemag]

​@@me-myself-i787 Allegedly.

[@derekcram1698]

Objection: When Batman beat up the joker's henchman at his penthouse, he was technically within his home and self defense laws could apply.

[@fOk0dAzZ]

Oh damn!

[@mikehawk514]

But batman is not bruce wayne, at least he would never admit it, so he is trespassing technically.

[@nattalete]

As another commenter essentially said, Batman would need to reveal that he is Bruce Wayne to use that defense.

[@WoodmanFeatherhigh]

@@nattalete But if the court system doesn't even know his identity, they couldn't trial him to begin with. If there is a trial, they must know who he is, and if they know who he is, then self-defence applies.

[@fOk0dAzZ]

@@WoodmanFeatherhigh if batman is sued and appear in court, by that point they should know who he is. That's all the point of knowing his identity, so they have someone to sue.

[@CaptainMadrick]

I love that Batman is liable for several counts of "battery"

[@SirUnknown2]

What's a tery?

[@SomeRandomPangolin]

I see what you did there

[@AngelusAnsell]

Take my like, you awful awful person. xD

[@seansmagee]

@@SirUnknown2 didn’t get the original joke until I saw this comment

[@TAILSORANGEs]

Batman probably came into the prison, and got a joker coming out into the world.

[@relativisticvel]

Objection: You missed the gun the joker was using was a machine pistol, that is a felony under federal law.

[@NorwegianAmericanKid]

Technically the shotgun the bank manager was also a class 3 weapon since it was sawn-down, unless he got a class 3 stamp for it.

[@CFneo98]

@@NorwegianAmericanKid he is the manager of a bank that launders criminal money and he knows that. I don't think he is using any sort of stamps xD

[@markwhalen8731]

Olewarrior34 I don’t think that was sawed off it looks just like a standard 14 inch barrel no stock

[@NorwegianAmericanKid]

@@markwhalen8731 hmm might be, this was way before the shockwave was a thing tho so itd still be below the required minimum length likely

[@gasolean5114]

Not if Joker had it grandfathered in and has proper licensing

[@ecokrazy]

I'm distressed by how quickly we went from talking about how serious murder is to "thats garden variety murder."

[@trenchcoatjoe1891]

But you're leaving out the most important law, The Batman Law. The law reads as such: "I'm Batman"

[@beanlets]

Objection, such a law is non-existent

[@beanlets]

And it can not exist

[@cday9206]

Charles Kogan. Objection to your objection. Of course it does, he’s Batman!

[@ChairmanJMao]

Objection, the duty to retreat is based upon who you are using the force for. So if you are defending a third party, then you use their ability to safely retreating from a situation instead of your own ability. That is, if you see someone getting mugged, your right to use force is predicated on their lack of ability to get away from the situation safely, not your own. Thus, when Batman fights the Joker and his thugs in the gala, he's using deadly force on behalf of the party goers. Though Batman can safely retreat from the situation, the party goers cannot. Thus, Batman does not have a duty to retreat in the situation, and can fight against the Joker. I see other comments talking about how he doesn't have a duty to retreat since its his building. That's true in Castle Doctrine states, which isn't uncommon. But even in states without it, Batman would be Ok.

[@snapple1877]

Jason Mao Thank you for clarifying. I figured that the guilty verdict didn't sound right .

[@lluewhyn]

That's what I was thinking too. Previously, there was discussion of the lawful use of force to protect others. That's clearly what he is doing here, because to his knowledge the Joker and his henchmen are planning on using deadly force on the party-goers.

[@mandlerparr1]

Frankly, I feel like that applies for a lot of the situations. Not all, of course, but any time he is stopping a crime that is happening in that moment, I don't see how that is assault on his part. I haven't watched in a while, but from what I can remember, batman only hits you if you keep attacking him/others.

[@lazyidiotofthemonth]

Its also occuring in his home, so duty to retreat does not apply.

[@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932]

lazyidiotofthemonth That's not always the case, depending on the state. As ridiculous as it may sound, I *think* that in some states, even if someone breaks into your home with a gun, you're legally obligated to attempt to run away before you can use deadly physical force to protect yourself, unless you believe that you can't do so without said invader harming you. (I'm not 100% certain on the accuracy of the legal terms I'm using, but I do understand the concept; read my comment as though I'm using ordinary language, not legalese.)

[@theliato3809]

"Can batman use self defense?" Entering gotham city alone should be grounds for that.

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

Agreed. Something often completely overlooked by the "is Batman justified" arguments are that we keep putting him in places that he is NOT in. He is NOT in New York. He is in New Jersey. Gotham, a city in New Jersey has an absurd crime rate due to police and civic corruption and pretty much every adult is either a criminal or a victim of crime. Batman didn't suit up because he didn't have anything to do on Tuesday. He did this because the city he loves (is obsessed with, see arguments for "Is Batman autistic"... cuz he so totally is) is COMPLETELY OVERTHROWN BY CRIME. Not because he saw a jay walker and said "Not in my city". And as always…. so long as the specific judge and jurors in his trial were not bought off.... What court is going to put him away under 1) the conditions of the city, 2) the complete unwillingness or inability of the police to do shit about it 3) he committed crimes against criminals and terrorists the likes of which only exist in comics (and the movies about them) directly, specifically and exclusively to stop them/save people. Based on "extenuating circumstances"... Not guilty. But then the phone thing. I had a problem with that writing in the movie as no Batman I know would do that. Almost that... yes. THAT... nope. Makes him exactly what he's obsessed with stopping... someone who commits crimes against the innocent. Can't do it due that strict moral code and obsession due to autism. So yeah. In short.... +1 Wait... do we still the +1 on the internet on is that the like button now?

[@DragonBallPaul]

@@dhotnessmcawesome9747 Justified and legal are not the same thing of course.

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

@@DragonBallPaul Who ever said legal? I didn't say legal. Batman is a vigilante. Vigilantism is a crime. Now like all trials... (we're technically putting him on trial here is all) is he GUILTY under the CIRCUMSTANCES of the crimes as charged and should he do time are the only subjects. This juror: Not guilty due to comic book level circumstances.

[@danielpreciado3112]

@@dhotnessmcawesome9747 What the suit man is saying is that even though some of his actions could be justified, that never means they're legal. Even in New Jersey, hacking into people's devices is a federal crime that'd be punishable in every State. Assault and battery, destruction of property, kidnapping, all illegal throughout the States.

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

@@danielpreciado3112 What the D man is saying doesn't dispute that. Go on. Look at everything I've typed everywhere about all of it. I don't call it legal at any point in time. I argued justification, not legality. I also argue that Batman not only lives in the state of New Jersey (which changes precious little BUT...) but he also lives in the world of comic book land. In a city that is a warzone. Where it was either be a vigilante (a crime Batman and I are both aware of) or let everyone suffer. It's the same argument I'd make for some homeland security laws... SOME. There's also an issue with the letter of the law and the spirit of the law which becomes and enormous debate that can never be solved by people who don't seem to get... I didn't say BALLS about ANYTHING Batman does as being LEGAL. Though if I commit crimes in New Jersey and I'm tried under Alaska's laws... I'm going to request a mistrial. I'm going to get it... UNLESS the crimes are federal (not all of his are) than what New York law only goes so far... Just like real life law doesn't apply to Batman land period. Justified. Not legal. As the idea of this whole thing is to clearly put him "on trial" than I have no choice but to request a change of venue to where his crimes took place, or I'll be forced to move for a mistrial.

[@simonayers8033]

Never have I ever found legal issues so interesting. 60 million years - reason enough not be a masked vigilante

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

When Batman does it, it's assault and battery. When I do it, it's assault and tery.

[@johnilarde8440]

Batman: “Check the Battery” Robin: “What’s a Tery?” Batman: *slaps robin*

[@colinmurphy2214]

Very clever

[@alwaysdisputin9930]

When i do it, it's assault & banana-tery

[@benedictifye]

Well played, Sir

[@Dinoenthusiastguy]

@@No-One-of-Consequence It wasn't a bad pun. It was a bat pun.

[@kayleighlehrman9566]

Objection: the Joker's thugs wrongfully entered Bruce's penthouse during the party, therefore Bruce/Batman is justified, in this instance, via self defense.

[@mattg9343]

2nd the objection - however Batman would need to publicly disclose his identity as Bruce Wayne and therefore allowing for apprehension and prosecution for all of Batman's other crimes for which he can't assert self defense.

[@OhtheSuffering]

Ah, but then Bruce would have no choice but to reveal that he is, in fact, Batman.

[@nicholasjohnson1511]

@@OhtheSuffering I feel like if he was at the point of defending himself in court after being arrested that likely would have come out. You can't really try someone without arresting and indicting them

[@mageyuri]

It still stands to reason that the original objection here stands, Batman/Bruce Wayne is protecting the people in his own home, which is pointed out earlier in the video that he is under no obligation to withdraw and is justified in use of deadly force to protect his home and guests.

[@samuelraymond5852]

+1, also I feel that more of his "assaults" would be justified by self defense since you he would be waved of his obligation to retreat since a every act of the Joker also threatened other people therefore Batman would be justified in using physical force since it was reasonably necessary to protect a "third person" from imminent, unlawful physical force. This could also apply to deadly force but strangely enough in James's list for unlawful acts you can use deadly force to prevent he doesn't include murder???

[@RipleySawzen]

OBJECTION! They NEVER hit hackers with a penalty for each and every computer they hacked. Also 18:36 Unlicensed surgery

[@SuperExodian]

^this, i highly doubt you'd get 60 000 000 years for making malware

[@damshek]

Right? This would mean that even a common ad malware would incur the longest punishment in pretty much the entire human history.

[@motokuchoma]

@@SuperExodian Its true though. The thing is, you rarely get sued by every single person who got your malware, also you need to actually prove that the copy of malware on your PC was caused by that particular hacker. In this case, there is proof that he literally invaded the privacy and hacked every single person in Gotham

[@thunderflare59]

No. That's from the Tim Burton Batman movie.

[@earningattorney9887]

@@damshek Which honestly as annoying and malicious as some malware is I kinda think I'm ok with this.

[@normlee6566]

In the comics, Batman has always said to his fellow JLAers, "Of course, we're criminals. We've always been criminals. " Technically speaking, he is correct.

[@CapCrunch45]

OBJECTION! Wouldn’t driving a school bus into a bank count as destruction of property?

[@patrickschnurbusch8319]

More aptly properties since he was literally smashing two properties together, the bank and the bus

[@GriffinPilgrim]

He already covered breaking and entering, I think this would fall under that.

[@theexchipmunk]

They brocke the windows of the other building before zip-lining over. Thats another one for destruction of property.

[@lakodamon]

Sustained. He was distracted by the conspiracy to commit murder.

[@rangers94ism]

@ArmchairWarrior I don't think that matters seeing that he was shot to death by the Joker.

[@TheGamingDistrict1]

I find it so funny when Crane (Scarecrow) says “not my diagnosis” when referring to Batman needing help because, as a student of clinical psychology myself (although I know Crane is a Psychiatrist), I would heavily argue as well that Bruce Wayne does need psychological help 😂.

[@konradobidoski5415]

That's exactly what Crane said. "I don't need help" "Yes, you do Batman"

[@SirRebrl]

@@konradobidoski5415 "I would heavily argue as well" -> indicates agreement King Boo finds it funny because he agrees with Scarecrow there.

[@konradobidoski5415]

@@SirRebrl goddamn, you are right! Thanks for pointing it out.

[@Flop_Studios]

Batmans times 150 years 45 years Me: He's not doing bad compared to the Joker... 60 million years WHAT ok

[@IamnotfromUSA]

TRUE

[@barsni4779]

I'm pretty sure those would be combined into single case and would not get penalty for every single hacking instance. Also courts are lazy so they combine several crimes sentences and only give partial sum of sentences.

[@theexchipmunk]

@@barsni4779 OH, but they would definitely throw the Book so to say. In that world Batman is in the view of the public the one who started it.

[@fahlur]

its because of the 30 million counts of illegal use of a computer. Also they do combined counts, but they usually go after what would really count against the person. Then go after them again in a future case on the others.

[@AP-gk6se]

He might have a permit to test firearms and pyrotechnics. He does have a branch of his company that does defense contracting. That is where his car and armor came from.

[@forbiddenwordme5167]

"Cute magic trick, also first degree murder." I want that on a shirt.

[@markpower2005b]

“Cool motive, still murder”

[@eleonarcrimson858]

@Mikê'e Stark KH

[@Saphman4]

@Mikê'e Stark ? Buddy, that's lead poisoning. And even if he doesn't die, that's attempted murder.

[@NapaCat]

@@Saphman4 Lead isn't used in pencils anymore; it's actually graphite.

[@Saphman4]

@@NapaCat okay then. New plan. Grievous bodily harm?

[@CamTheWarlock]

I never would’ve managed to guess that the Joker was a criminal who murdered people. Thank you for opening my eyes to his misdeeds.

[@calebbecker1237]

WAIT WAIT DONT SPOIL

[@daniellemhall1358]

@@calebbecker1237 lol

[@zato-1766]

I used to look up to him too. 😔

[@mariemiel]

Sounds like every fourteen year old boy who snuck in to watch Joker and decided Arthur was going to be their idol lmao

[@johnnybeasley3675]

What a whacky dude, what a kooky guy that joker

[@unkles]

"Hes not the criminal we deserve. But the criminal we needed"

[@robot3759]

You either die a criminal, or live long enough to see yourself become the criminal.

[@BenultraAuxerre]

"Never need a bitch, I'm what a bitch need" - The Weeknd, Heartless

[@jameskelly9686]

Objection: in the first fight scene against the Joker, Batman was in his own estate and did not have the duty to retreat.

[@TheZeroRyuzaki]

14:07 Technically, Batman is off the hook for assaulting joker and his henchmen, because this entire scene is taking place in Bruce’s penthouse. So the joker and his goons were breaking into Bruce’s house. Also, Batman isn’t breaking any loitering law since, again, it’s his own house.

[@kanvaros4451]

But isn't that predicated knowing batman is Bruce Wayne ? If we didn't know that couldn't he still be charged unless he removed his mask or Bruce Wayne decided not to press charges ?

[@ThorsteinnMemeson]

@@kanvaros4451 I mean if he was brought to court im pretty sure they would take his mask off...

[@armorsmith43]

Travis Sanchez You’re mixing up criminal and civil law. The DA presses charges, not private actors. Private actors merely cooperate in criminal prosecutions by providing evidence.

[@armorsmith43]

Zero Ryuzaki also, wasn’t the Joker threatening the other people at the party?

[@DelightfulWalrus]

But as he's been saying throughout the video, he has the duty to withdraw (run away) instead of engaging in violence.

[@thatkid6423]

OBJECTION! In the party scene, the party is at Bruce Wayne’s house making him a.) right in defending his home from the Joker’s breaking and entering and b.) allowed to loiter in his private space!

[@gengarzilla1685]

It might excuse him defending Bruce Wayne's property as Bruce Wayne, but not as Batman. Very few people know that Bruce and Barman are the same person.

[@TheGIJew.]

@@gengarzilla1685 But assuming he was being put on trial and charged with all of Batman's actions, his identity would have to be public knowledge

[@Raptorman0205]

@Gengarzilla ah yes, my favorite DC superhero *The Barman* I have a really good cosplay of him in fact

[@DylanMcMullen]

Raptormann0205 Barman and his trusty sidekick... Bus boy

[@benmartinworks]

Same OBJECTION. Same reasons: it’s Bruce Wayne’s penthouse with his secret panic room, his guests who he is reasonably responsible to protect, & the Joker has been brandishing weapons with intent for harm & mayhem (see earlier implied threat with the grenades), AND in addition to the immediate circumstances, the Joker provided a public video declaring an ongoing terrorist threat. The ongoing terrorist threat implies deadly force is lawfully authorized by anyone in order to prevent further acts of murder, until Joker rescinds the threat. Then we can downgrade to standard assault and self-defense deadly force limitations. Also agreed with the statement that in a trial situation the “duality” of Batman & Bruce Wayne goes away. Bruce Wayne carries all culpability, i.e. he doesn’t get to go home after Batman is sentenced; therefore he gets all rights and privileges to justify his actions as the two alter egos being a single responsible actor.

[@cryofpaine]

So would you say that Batman and Rachael violated the laws of physics?

[@randomthoughtsonapapernapkin]

Priceless

[@MLennholm]

That's 14 billion years in prison right there

[@lordofuzkulak8308]

Yes but lawyers have no jurisdiction over that; time to call a scientist! 😜

[@justtocomment5948]

Omg...I heard the drums on that one😂😂

[@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770]

AR-REST. AR-REST.

[@kellyhurley741]

FYI, you missed 2 murders in the scene where Joker kills Gambol. He stabbed the two men that were next to him when he was laying on the pool table faking his death. He stabbed & used them as leverage to get up & assault, then murder Gambol. So yea, just figured you should know, just in case you wanted to add another 40 years to his, already, incredible sentence

[@eliwatson7936]

Objection: during the party, Batman has no duty to retreat because it’s taking place in his own home

[@InsanityProdutions]

As well as the fact that because of the Joker's previous terrorist threat, intent to harm can already be established.

[@robertlowe6367]

I think maybe it wouldn't apply to him because he's concealing his identity and the aggressive parties do not know it's his house. Also to defend against the charge he'd have to admit he's Bruce Wayne lol

[@Nihontopride]

@Vanilla Good luck geting the mask off without his consent.

[@scubasteve2169]

@@robertlowe6367 so if I was wearing bondage equipment concealing my face, I couldn't defend because they didnt know it was my house?

[@scubasteve2169]

Id say it was because a third party was being threatened.

[@cartertheatrocity6673]

Objection: Arkham isnt jail. Its an insane aslyum.

[@pelksaka]

Bruce Wayne is mentally unstable and a huge threat.

[@brandonlyon730]

One with a revolving door.

[@e32b61]

carter jelacic Objection: in real life the Joker would never be sent to an insane asylum as it's evident that he is aware of his own actions. Is he competent to stand trial? Probably not, but he would be convicted of murder and acts of terrorism just the same. As such he committed crimes that would have him executed by the federal government. Harvey Dent wouldn't be the one prosecuting him.

[@HamsterPants522]

@@pelksaka You sound like the talking heads in The Dark Knight Returns.

[@blew1t]

@@HamsterPants522 awh i thought this was a Talking Heads reference :/

[@DarkseidTCG]

*"I'm a lawyer you can trust me"* Objection.

[@xionxinx]

Objection. 'You can trust me, I'm an attorney'

[@ljt47exploring64]

Over ruled

[@baskstorian4251]

69 nice.

[@dianeaustin2414]

Well played sir, well played!!!

[@Moose92411]

This is the legalistic clarity that I never wanted but now know I needed

[@DolphinRadio]

Objection! timestamp 14:30 "...a person is loitering... ...in a public place" This was a private political fundraising party held in Bruce Wayne's private property for the benefit of Harvey Dent, not a public space.

[@amyschildgamerlive4519]

Your time stamp is wrong

[@geoffmcclelland2663]

14:23

[@TheDash456]

14:15 is where the loitering charge is.

[@MorioRexPage]

In that section could it also be argued that because it his property he is not obligated to remove himself from the situation, and therefore the assaults that took place could be considered self defense?

[@marhawkman303]

@@MorioRexPage Also I'm not sure about New York, but some place shave a law that basically says that If you see someone who needs assistance with self defense you're allowed the same provisions as if you were attacked. For example: you see someone getting mugged. You are allowed to react to that to protect the other person. But this has a very limited scope and only applies to things that are direct threats of harm or theft. Also it has a proportionate response aspect. You're not, for example, allowed to shoot to kill when the attacker isn't using lethal force. ANd you need to be mindful that if you're wrong about the situation or cause excessive damage you're liable for that.

[@SeraphsWitness]

Objection: Speculation. You don't know if Wayne Enterprises is licensed to have an indoor firing range or not.

[@Mr_T_Badger]

The ATF is still going to have a field day with all his assorted explosives and likely those miniguns too.

[@SeraphsWitness]

@@Mr_T_Badger true enough. The ATF never met a firearm they didn't want to regulate.

[@bubba200874426]

@@Mr_T_Badger Wayne Enterprises probably makes that stuff in the Batman universe.

[@garrett9550]

@@bubba200874426 which would mean they are an SOT and legally can use it

[@rangerwill]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Waynetech a defense contractor ? Which means they would probably need to have firearms to test efficiency of whatever armor they are creating.

[@UnionZack]

That opening scene was perfect. "Cute magic trick, and first-degree murder."

[@IronLucario2012]

Fun fact: look at the reflection of the TV in the table and you'll see the reflection of the green screen rather than the guy's face.

[@Tweedledees]

fun fact: technically if they bring him to a hospital within a day or so, he should be fine!

[@robertyourwaiter5615]

Fun fact: I would barely go as far as to say this is attempted murder because that guy is not dead

[@twiceborn_by_grace]

I love when the professionals in their field react to movies and tv shows and tell what is wrong or right.

[@mjohnson5030]

OBJECTION! 14:00 "Batman... is not justified in beating up Joker's henchmen..." Counselor forgets that Batman IS Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne and his guests were hostages, could not reasonably retreat. As hostages are reasonably in immediate lethal threat , hostages ARE justified in using physical (or even lethal) force. Would we prosecute a hostage for punching his kidnappers? I think not. Defense rests, your honor.

[@okbucket]

He doesn't even need to be a hostage, right? Under NY law, self defense is a valid legal defense even if the subject is defending another threatened person (and that person is unable to retreat). Seems to me the use of deadly force by batman (or by any person at this location) against the Joker and his henchmen is legal here.

[@Andrewflynn16]

Substantial. Assuming bats reveals himself as mr. Wayne without certainty it's is the unknown vigilante known as Batman on trail

[@ReyosBlackwood]

@@Andrewflynn16 But revealing himself is not required, as NY law allows self defence for the defence of others, as was stated at the start of the video. And defending those who were at the party and taken hostage would easily qualify.

[@TV4Fun2]

He certainly has no duty to retreat, given that The Joker was trespassing on his property.

[@felipebris4001]

Furthermore Bruce Wayne/ Batman is in his own home and so can use any use of force he deems necessary and has no obligation to retreat as mentioned earlier in the video

[@Macdaddy5539]

Objection: Batman violates NYS DMV Vehicle and Traffic Law, Section 501 when he is riding the Batcycle. He is not wearing a DOT approved motorcycle helmet.

[@MacMashPotato]

The mask is a helmet, not a great one but its supposed to be bullet resistant.

[@GhostBear3067]

@@MacMashPotato while his mask/cowell is a helmet, it is not a DOT approved motorcycle helmet, or as I have heard one ER doctor call it, "ID Bucket".

[@DJohnGrady]

@@GhostBear3067 "ID Bucket", I am so stealing that.

[@lirsh3248]

im sure his helmet would pass all DMV and even SNELL tests for helemts

[@pjamese3]

I propose that given its durability and cushioning (when Batman falls from a height or takes a bullet to the head) his cowl is more than the equivalent of a DOT approved helmet.

[@husseinahmed677]

I'm about 98% this man is not wearing any pants

[@christianperez7227]

I'm 99 percent sure you aren't either

[@kendarr]

@@christianperez7227 oh shit I ain't

[@nectarieienasoaie8541]

It only makes it better

[@goldenpants1239]

He is a member of the pews race and actually has no legs

[@DeepThinker193]

He's giving Jeremy Jahns a run for his money.

[@-13eNnY-]

Iirc, Batman was asked if he could kidnap Lao by Commissioner Gordon. That's conspiracy right there, at the very least. Then Batman actually went and successfully kidnapped Lao and delivered him to the police. The police are not blameless just because they didn't actually send any of their officers to do the kidnapping.

[@MistyMay-qe7ix]

Actually Gordon didn't ask him... The Harvey the DA asked him... And you would need another DA to prosecute him... And seeing as they are going after the Mob most DAs will let that past

[@jameslynn7271]

OBJECTION: Wayne enterprises is also a defense contractor and therefore has the legal permits to test firearms and pyrotechnics within the State of NY 15:10

[@adamhelmen5842]

James Lynn this space is not at Wayne enterprises or in said properties. So no they do not have the right

[@alexandrezani]

I bet the place is owned by Wayne Enterprise.

[@samson7842]

Adam Helmen No,it was in a hidden floor of Wayne Enterprises. But, please correct me if I’m wrong.

[@tyler4840]

Adam Helmen it is.

[@Tsunaze59]

@@adamhelmen5842 It's owned by WE, they even use the property to install the generator prior to The Dark Knight Rises

[@Dreaded88]

@LegalEagel: [Last one, I promise!] *_Objection, your Honour!_* Mr. Wayne is a possessor of a valid Class-III Federal Firearms License, and Wayne Enterprises *_IS_* a Contractor to the DOD, and citing that contract allows for the testing of Destructive Devices, and other Munitions under Federal Defense Procurement Laws! *MOTION TO DISMISS!!!*

[@stevendorsey4850]

You are a god, my man. :D

[@fatboyRAY24]

damn that sounds legit

[@ajvanmarle]

Your honor, the contract only allows for testing of weapons, ammunition, and other destructive devices on federally approved testing grounds. Furthermore, all such tests must be done within the framework of the development. Mr Wayne is NOT allowed to appropriate the devices thus developed, or use them, in the pursuit of his own personal interests. Therefore, the legal protection afforded by this contract does not apply to Mr Wayne's activities.

[@Merennulli]

@@ajvanmarle Partially true. He was within the law to possess certain weapons. He violated the law mounting them to a vehicle and again when discharging them in public. The tests may have been in an approved facility (it certainly looked like one and we have no indication otherwise), but of course that only covers the testing. Also, manufacturing automatic weapons or any other restricted firearm for the DOD would potentially be allowed, but manufacturing them for himself would not, so any weapon he made would either be illegally manufactured or stolen from the DOD.

[@Dreaded88]

@@@ajvanmarle : *Objection-in-Dinovo!* Wayne Enterprises Headquarters building *_IS_* one of the Federally Aproved Testing Facilities, and Mr. Wayne's use of said item(s) *_WAS_* part of Live-Fire Combat Testing!

[@harshraythattha3886]

OJECTION Gotham is in New Jersey per comic book lore, and being a resident of said state I can rightfully claim that we are just as lawless as the movie shows us to be.

[@seaneaves9291]

New York... It's in the very first issues on detective Comics back in the Golden age

[@dmfaccount1272]

@@seaneaves9291 metropolis is New York. There can't be 2 new York's.

[@alexanderhood8993]

To be honest Gotham is based on multiple real life sin city’s based in United state of America so Gotham influenced from every sin city in United state of America 🇺🇸 and considering that Gotham is suffering from every type of crimes imaginable from every person in Gotham city yet there are still moral citizens who refused to break the law that somehow outnumbered the number of criminals and corrupt people in Gotham from every type of organization’s despite constant mass murder that somehow numbered in billions of people dying daily in Gotham.

[@whatupcuz3688]

@@dmfaccount1272 metropolis is DC Gotham is New Jersey

[@mentaya11]

Generally, I've seen evidence and claims for Gotham being one of two cities; the darker side of NYC while Metropolis is the brighter side and Chicago. Both of these have been openly stated at different times by creators of Batman comics and movies. I've never heard NJ.

[@lorddrayvon1426]

As a reminder to everyone, New York State abolished the death penalty in 2004 and the last actual execution was in 1963 via electric chair at Sing Sing Prison.

[@WhyNot-yy5wz]

I love how this is just a series of joker doing obviously illegal things followed by “mmm yep you see that there , you can’t do that “

[@IsaHoodie]

Remember kids, you are better off with murder than large-scale hacking

[@gromm93]

I don't think he's getting more than 10 years for that.

[@axslaps]

Depends. White collar carries less penalty than blue collar, so if he doesn't excede the penalty he'd recieve for the blue collar offense, then the white collar offense would be better in sentence terms and level of imprisonment.

[@KutWrite]

...or better even than hosting a web site which MIGHT have enabled some crimes, never even alleged. Ref: US Government vs Ross Ulbricht: two consecutive life sentences plus 40 years. Enhanced sentences from crimes not even alleged, let alone proven. www.FreeRoss.org

[@echelon2k8]

And Batman only did the "hacking" of innocent people to find a criminal who would have killed thousands of those innocent people if not stopped. Think the ends justified the means in this particular case.

[@justinmc415]

@@echelon2k8 Thousands are killed in the US every year. The problem with this argument is if the government looked at it the way you do no one would have a right to privacy.

[@legofirefighter]

Batman: “Harvey Dent, can we trust him?” Gordon: “No, but I may know a guy...” LeagalEagle swoops in with an all black Indochino suite. A bald eagle caws for democracy in the distance.

[@ATassieDevil]

Now we need a 'laws broken' video for The Batman

[@seto007]

13:50 Objection. The Henchmen are clearly armed with firearms and knives, and thus constitute an immediate and deadly threat to both Batman and the Party Goers. I also believe that it's Bruce Wayne's property, meaning he's under no obligation to retreat from it.

[@kwinzman]

Good point.

[@iruns1246]

Agreed, so scratch a couple of decades from that millions of years of sentence.

[@LetsPlayZombieGames]

I agree. I don't know the laws of New York, but I wouldn't have thought Bruce Wayne putting on a mask in his own property, rushing a guest to safety, and fighting thugs actively threatening his guests would be loitering, kidnapping, or assault, but maybe New York is super strict about that duty to retreat.

[@thomassaldana2465]

Not only that. I'm not sure about in the US, but here in NZ the 'self defense' idea also applies to any person whom you have a duty to protect. Bruce could argue that he has a duty to keep his party guests safe, and therefore he is allowed to use physical force to do so.

[@misterghoul9457]

@@iruns1246 he could likely file for immunity for the wire taps, with a good enough lawyer.

[@fourthhorsemendeath218]

Funny thing is: I feel like most of us know what laws are being broken but hearing an expert explain it to us feels so much better

[@LeKain08]

Not necessarly. We're not all U.S.American, and even if I myself (french) knows things of U.S laws (mainly thanks to U.S soft power and media (film and series...) I guess...) I certainly don't know much of it for real. It's already complicate to know laws in your own country (at least in 1st world democracy countries where we usually swim in so many different laws after centuries of Republic...) so knowing laws in another country (be it U.S.A or not) ?... Not so sure, buddy ^^

[@ZacksRockingLifestyle]

LeKain08 “most of us”

[@Addyson1991]

"The Joker would serve approximately 35 life sentences and 12000 years in jail" "...I want my phone call" That was perfect. Although being a lawyer, I'd hoped you'd touch on the film's premise that Harvey Dent's crimes as Two-Face would nullify his convictions as DA. I could probably Google that, but...

[@calvinguy2715]

Alfred told the story of catching the criminal stealing jewels. He said they had to “burn down the forest,” foreshadowing Batman’s decision to tap into everyone’s phones.

[@bplup6419]

"Batman should be in jail for 60 million years." -Lawyer who looks suspiciously like Aaron Eckhart

[@osmium6832]

My brain exploded in slow motion when I read this.

[@DirkAustin]

Nah, Legal Eagle is cuter.

[@kariprice6559]

LE can get it fr, lol Eckhart... notsomuch

[@DylanZZ3]

WOW i did not notice that he looks like Aaron Eckhart.

[@imperialguard28]

....nahhh

[@philosophicaljay3449]

Objection! Neither will be going to jail as both have perfectly good cases for declaring insanity.

[@TheRandomEpicVideos]

eh, not really, if you can function that well you're not insane.

[@SlimThrull]

Swift is probably correct. To use an insanity defense you'd have to show that they didn't know that their actions were going to cause trouble. While you could say the Joker is insane, I don't think you'd be able to call him criminally insane.

[@Sacremas]

The YT channel NerdSynch did a rundown on everything displayed by the various incarnations of the Joker, movies and comics, and while he's definitely crazy, he's by no means unreliable, and worse yet continuously demonstrates he knows the difference between right and wrong. There's just a few cases of 'criminally insane' that wouldn't just lump you in with all of the other criminals and likely on death row (in fact majority of death row inmates are likely mentally ill), and the Joker doesn't really apply to any of them... In fact there's really no mental illness that really explains what's wrong with him (beyond basic sociopathy and psychopathy), the channel concluded based off a ton of rather odd scenes in the comics that he basically has the same "illness" Deadpool has, 4th Wall Vision; he knows he's in a comic (or movie or whatever), and he's doing his stuff because he knows it doesn't matter, they're just actors or otherwise not real and he's trying to wake them up, or even reach out to the viewer, making his true diagnosis "acute sanity" and Batman the real madman.

[@GriffinPilgrim]

@@Sacremas The 4th wall thing varies from continuity to continuity but several official stories have shown that whatever's wrong with the Joker's head he is also very intelligent and has a great deal of knowledge of psychology and psychiatry. So whenever someone tries to analyse him he just presents the appropriate symptoms for whatever he feels like getting diagnosed with today. As such a proper diagnosis is more or less impossible. Wherever it comes from the core of the Joker is an aggressive nihilism more than anything else. He's concluded that life doesn't matter, nothing has any meaning and the entire universe is one big joke. He doesn't need to be aware of his own fictional nature for that, just to have an atypical reaction to an existential crisis. As such he just acts on his every impulse, no matter how vile, with no moral or indeed practical filter because hey, why the hell not? And while most nihilists become rather passive due to depression he feels the need to get everyone he can to see things his way, possibly to vindicate him. So I would contend that he doesn't in fact know the difference between right and wrong as in his mind neither concept is valid.

[@Sacremas]

@@GriffinPilgrim A good theory, and yes nihilism applies pretty well to it (and in comics he's been described as such a few times that I can recall). I'd still say what you described is him knowing right from wrong, at least as far as the law defines it (which is the end definition in this case, as the legal definitions of right and wrong will vary a lot if you're in America or Iran for example, where incidentally the Joker was given a position f importance during the classic "A Death in the Family" by none other than the Ayatollah Khomeini) he just doesn't care one way or the other. So regardless, we kinda have to assume that the state Gotham is in (which some comics have suggested is New Jersey) doesn't have the death penalty, as otherwise he'd be on death row a long time ago.

[@jmanj3917]

At 13:15, "murder of a judge, murder of the police chief..." You left out Littering, as he left all of those "Joker" playing cards!

[@theemeraldking3251]

Unforgivable....

[@LabGecko]

And several counts of jaywalking, especially after blowing up the hospital...

[@ragerasse7616]

@@LabGecko Can't imagine having jaywalking being illegal. Such a weird concept.

[@LabGecko]

@@ragerasse7616 That's the US for you. Consideration for trucks first, then cars, everything else moves out of the way

[@magnusbane420]

​@@ragerasse7616 jaywalking is an even worse offense in Singapore, though I assume there are a lot more opportunities to cross streets on designated locations

[@FatY0shi]

Objection! In the scene where batman drives his bat motorcycle,he also should be accused of child endangerment since the kids in the car could have been hurt by the cars flying around and the explosions.

[@HistorysRaven]

Objection: Batman isn't an official city actor, but wouldn't Gordon having the Bat-Signal on top of his building and the close working nature of their relationship mean that he has city approval for everything he does?

[@thegreatandterrible4508]

Gordon is not able to make official decisions on behalf of the government. Gordon may be guilty as an accessory to Batman.

[@Maikigai]

In a special feature of the movie, he’s asked about the signal and says something like, “Oh that’s a faulty floodlight I keep meaning to get fixed and haven’t had time.”

[@sleepzy3816]

Pretty sure just because the police have a light beam of your logo, doesn't mean you can just beat people

[@ovni2295]

Theoretically, one could argue Batman has been deputized, and the lack of paperwork (Which the NYPC/GCPD would certainly raise as a defense) would not shield the police force from liability if one made the Deputy Batman argument. However, NYC (aka Gotham) has only a limited form of Qualified Immunity, so Batman's immunity to charges as a deputy is relatively weak. He would be better off using his billions to defend himself.

[@Compucles]

But then again, hardly anyone ever tries to press charges against Gordon or Batman (except in certain stories where Batman seems to have gone rogue), because they know that cooperating with Batman and his illegal acts is a necessity just to keep crime from the dangerous criminals down at a reasonable level in Gotham.

[@robrick9361]

OBJECTION! 0:04 That's voluntary manslaughter. Joker is very passionate about magic and merely got carried away while performing his trick since that man was clearly about to physically assault him.

[@WebSpyder777]

Further objection. A pencil through the eye is rarely fatal. According to Scientific American, "These cases are always serious-an orbitocranial injury always is-but rarely so serious that the patient dies instantly. In fact, if treated quickly, partial to full recovery describes the majority of these cases."

[@nancykerrigan1335]

@@snarkylive I think you just uncovered the premise of Christopher Nolan's Oscar Bait film.

[@masatosanjoin4281]

69 likes. nice

[@danielmurray6068]

"We're criminals Alfred, We've always been criminals" - Bruce Wayne The Dark Knight Returns [ Graphic Novel ]

[@pbz4072]

Daniel Murray I swear that’s from batman v superman

[@danielmurray6068]

@@pbz4072 It is, and they took it from the graphic novel.

[@pbz4072]

Daniel Murray ah, my mistake

[@danielmurray6068]

@@pbz4072 NP :)

[@bantehayes9973]

Dude, I'm loving your channel more and more.

[@Kilocron]

Objection! At around 13:40... wouldn't Batman's use of force be justified againtst joker and the goons given that they were threatening the party with deadly force?

[@dark_knight109]

I'm curious on this as well. Didn't you say that duty to retreat does not apply if you're interceding on behalf of a third party? Given that Batman is attacking a bunch of goons who have made it abundantly clear that they're there to cause harm and/or death to Harvey Dent or someone close to him, wouldn't self-defence kick in as a justification? As well, I'm pretty sure that's his apartment that they're in, so Castle Doctrine would apply as well, would it not?

[@jjducci]

Agree Batman is technically attacking the Joker’s henchmen in his apartment

[@FulcanMal]

Same for the loitering crime. It's is own house. He can wear whatever costume he wants.

[@christopherg2347]

Both Bruce Wayne and Batman had ample reason to believe the Joker was going to kidnap and/or rape rachel. With the Joker killing a victim largely painless is a *good* outcome. All are mention explicitly at 7:15 The Home part might or might not apply. It is a bit unclear whose Venue that was.

[@onimcm]

Is it kidnapping if you are taking someone against their will even in the face of clear and present danger? Since the party happened on Bruce Wayne's private property, wouldn't self defense come into play when a group enters with intent to do bodily harm? And the loitering law wouldn't come into play because they were not in public during the party. It would be applied for the rest of the movie though.

[@sauron6064]

Batman in jail longer than the joker These are confusing times

[@erikt3162]

You read old comics pre New 52 shows Batman was lawless.

[@emperororthopox1691]

No the joker got longer he got 30 life sentences The number on the shield was a bit confusing I admit

[@belland_dog8235]

@@emperororthopox1691 60 million years is longer than 30 life sentences

[@MyKillerson]

@@emperororthopox1691 assuming the average lifespan is 100 years, 30 life sentences would only see the Joker in prison for 3,000 years

[@belland_dog8235]

@Tahka DM The point still stands

[@cameronorcutt5505]

Wouldn't Batman in most scenarios be protected under the Good Samaritan's Act? Especially in scenes like 14:08. I'm not questioning a lawyer, I'm sure you know more than me, but I am curious.

[@thomasvansant3377]

Good Samaritan refers to giving aid to someone who's injured or ill

[@cosmicspooky]

13:50 OBJECTION. Batman has the right to defend his property and is not loitering. he is in one of his various apartments during this particular gala

[@jeremiahgriffin9521]

Hmm. It occurs to me that Batman might be able to loophole his way out of a lot of crimes if Bruce Wayne just buys every building in Gotham!

[@cosmicspooky]

@@jeremiahgriffin9521 doesn't bruce already own most of gotham?

[@ArifRWinandar]

But that would require Batman to disclose his identity as Bruce Wayne...

[@jeremiahgriffin9521]

@Arif R Winandar well, you have to consider that he only needs to use this defense if he is brought to trial, and if he is brought to trial, his identity has almost certainly been exposed whether he wanted it to be or not.

[@StormKingOTHRoad]

you are clearly forgetting that in order to even charge him with the crimes they would have to subdue him at which point the mask would be removed and his identity revealed making that pointless