Legendary Lord Defeat Traits Tier List for Warhammer 3

[@BMBMiniatures]

Defeat traits are so iconic. It's something that really gives flavour. It creates stories and fame for your Lords. They should be better balanced so none of them are useless.

[@Weberkooks]

Yeah I don't get that out of defeat traits but they are certainly worth pursuing if they are convenient in a campaign

[@comediccomrade5716]

Honestly I only really feel this when using Legendary Lore cuz it adds a decent story to each one when you get it

[@alinlight4210]

For real

[@Grivehn]

The longer your campaign goes, the more theyre worth. ... Which for most people is 30 turns, so theyre mostly useless anyway.

[@Shane2020xxx]

I love how Kairos Fateweaver fights himself from the future and gets his own defeat trait. Iconic Tzeench.

[@RAWR26633]

"Kohlek is below tretch". I cant imagine a greater insult ever said in all of warhammer fantasy.

[@mctbaggins2084]

Why?

[@RAWR26633]

@@mctbaggins2084 its a joke because tretch is the worst legendary lord to play as.

[@nmmeswey3584]

trecht certainly sees it that way 😅

[@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149]

Remember when defeating the Anti-Christ gave you just immunity to psychology?

[@Sternmayer]

Defeating who?%)

[@skdeathxlife]

@@Sternmayer Archaeon I think

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

"Destroy the child, corrupt them all" - Chaos Undivided Champion Alex Jones

[@Garret007]

Yeah, horrible old times xD. Hope they will change a bunch of the bad ones that are still around.

[@EthanHeathen]

Ha!

[@Defsnot_Momskowerkor]

The "At Sea" traits on a Black Ark Fleetmaster apply when they siege cities, if you get all of them it's pretty good

[@xiii0722]

Oh, good to know. Thanks for sharing that!

[@Shadesight]

Super-handy information, but still niche enough to probably not make them more highly rated.

[@gxrdian]

@@Shadesight they'd only get a higher ranking on a dark elf campaign, you can't justify it for any other races

[@oooeee5556]

"at sea" defeat traits being 90% useless:

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@oooeee5556 at least they're better than when naval combat was auto resolve only.

[@Klongu_Da_Bongu]

It's funny because at sea you already get the movement traits and loot from force marching and lost islands. I guess this is good for Vampire Coast sometimes.

[@DustyhatTrick]

99%

[@Sanguis3k]

It wouldn't be an issue if they actually made proper naval battles but we all know CA won't do that

[@manfIesh]

@@Sanguis3k if they made naval battles i would be playing sartosa 24/7

[@nightrunnerks]

Tyrion and Teclis' quest battle gives you malikeths defeat trait regardless of whether he's alive or not. So definitely good for Tyrion who just becomes a monster.

[@Loj84]

I wish all of the defeat traits that affect winds of magic had some benefit to rune magic as well. A very small reduction to shared cooldowns would be great. Same with landmarks.

[@Voxcast07]

that would be obscenely overpowered, rune magic is already strong, and the cool down is the only thing holding it back

[@khankhomrad8855]

@@Voxcast07 Not really more than regular magic. And besides, stacking Rume Masters take a long time, longer than just going full grudge throwers and ranged spam.

[@SGProductions87]

You can get around shared cooldown by having multiple Runesmiths. If you can put 2 Runesmiths in the army, you should. If you put 3 and time correctly, you can apply a spell's affect damn near permanently (requires good micro). If you put 6 Runesmiths I think you may be able to stack both base spell and overcast spell "permanently". I did a video on this on my channel.

[@Voxcast07]

@@khankhomrad8855 what are you talking about? Runic magic can be spammed all battle without ever running out of winds of magic

[@gwanael34]

@@Voxcast07 who cares ? its a single player game when it comes to having those traits

[@JakubLeliel]

@LegendofTotalWar First of all - thank you for this tier list! I suggested defeat traits tier list not so long ago, so I'm positively surprised to see it so soon! You have made my day! Anyway, I have spotted 2 mistakes (because of wiki's outdated info): 47:31 Tehenhauin's trait second effect isn't untainted anymore. It gives now -25% casualties suffered from all attrition. (So with Daniel's trait it's -75%! With many factions it's possible to achieve -100% thanks to that.) 55:25 Ku'gath's trait gives only -20% chance of a plague spreading. Pretty disappointing imo.

[@jonathansykes1398]

+1 this actual pretty useful!!!

[@Ersquare]

Amazing that he did it even without a Manscaped sponsorship! Times are a-changin’

[@SammmyNan]

"Cylostra going right below Skrag" is an image I could have lived without

[@mackenzieobrien7579]

Fucking got me good lololol

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

There's two factions that don't need Malakai's defeat trait at all. It's not just Slaanesh, it's not even primarily Slaanesh since Slaanesh armies can have Marauder Horsemen which do at least profit a bit from the Missile strength buff. The faction that really doesn't need that trait whatsoever are actually the Vampire Counts because they don't have missile or artillery units at all (aside from a few Sylvanian crossbowmen if you happen to get them). 1:16:58 It's not strange that Tomb Kings are friendly with you if you're strong, it is in fact a faction mechanic of the Tomb Kings. More or less all other factions view you as a threat eventually which negatively impacts diplomacy. For Tomb Kings however it is the opposite - the stronger you are the more they like you. It is in fact far more likely for them to go to war with factions that are weak.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Yeah I think Arkhan works a little differently, or else at least the penalty from hanging out with other Tomb Kings outweighs the boost for being strong. They're some of the most consistent allies as a result, even if their contributions to whatever it is you're doing are pretty minimal.

[@sim.frischh9781]

Legend: "I don´t want to go too much into detail or this video is going for WAY over an hour..." Video lenght: 1:36:54... smart move, Legend, smart move. But still underestimated the result. DRAMATICALLY so.

[@CapybaraConnoisseur89]

I think Mannfred defeat trait should provide, research, and something with Winds of Magic rather than useless Vampiric attrition

[@Stoss_]

yeah or give you a book of nagash

[@daviramos9937]

I can’t put in words how I love this game and watch this tier list videos while I wash the dishes

[@splash6117]

Bro same ahahag

[@michaelpetrovich5353]

Same.

[@paulenan9636]

Me putting on this video while scrubbing a pot

[@emperorlokire7648]

Me putting it on in the gym

[@jakebolger6248]

Literally did this very thing tonight… great minds think alike!

[@wizardofwaz1175]

I'm a simple man; I see a Legend tierlist, I click

[@dales9028]

Your knowledge on this massive game is beyond impressive.

[@FlamesOfASD]

I just learned about the second Settra trait in this vid and I love it, the attention detail is wild

[@buggyenvironment]

Surtha Ek can actually get both defeat traits of Settra: defeat Settra with Surtha Ek to get the unique trait, afterwards change the name of Surtha and defeat Settra again will grant you the regular trait.

[@xiii0722]

Lol, sneaky

[@Ersquare]

Lmao, does it work with someone else if you call them Surtha Ek? 🤣

[@Shane2020xxx]

It’s literally based on character string in the name?! CLASSIC CA!

[@thehtehteotheithe]

@@Ersquare check and get back to us, now I'm curious

[@buggyenvironment]

@@Ersquare ​ & @thehtehteotheithe Unfortunately not, that was what I tested when I did find out the 2 trait stuff. Surtha can only get his unique trait as long as his name was untouched and renaming him (or another chieftain) to Surtha Ek does not allow you to get the unique trait.

[@catalyst772]

This is great actually, good refference for who I should go out of my way to beat.

[@dark_side_cookies]

I didn't realize that some traits have begun to be active only while the lord is on the map. I'm guessing that CA's ultimate goal is to reduce the trait spamming and cheesing on non-active lords, but they don't have the resources to change all those traits. I know they started this with Dwarfs by changing the Oathgold boosting trait to only being active inside the Region rather than map-wide, making it cost prohibitive for lords. Same thing with the Tomb Kings and their Jar Hoarder trait, which [Edit: no longer works if the Lord is disbanded] . Which tbh was stupidly overpowered once you could recruit lords at rank 5: being able to increase your jar income by 6 I believe for zero cost every turn, and not impacting your army cap at all. I remember just swapping out the lord every turn on an army that was just sitting around recruiting or whatever, and then when needed in combat swap the good lord back in once they were available. Rinse & repeat ad infinitum.

[@buggyenvironment]

TK lords still have jar hoarder, it just does not work anymore when the lord is disbanded.

[@ShadowWalker-ng1it]

just a quick math for those that don't like flat ap increase. for a +10% ap increase trait to be equal to a +30 ap you need a minimum of 300 ap without the trait considering most top tier melee lords have around 400-500 overall ws it is quite a lot of extra ws especially for characters with bad non-ap/ap split like tyrion, thorgrim and the likes

[@Greyknight1575]

Astragoth's defeat trait seems tailor made for Archaon. Archaon's current spell selection is from lores that get buffed by Astragoth's trait.

[@jarlwilliam9932]

Conversely Astragoth benefits immensely from Archaon’s defeat trait. So whether subjugating the forces of chaos under your leadership or proving Hashut is the best, you get an insane benefit to your faction leader.

[@buggyenvironment]

Except the whole magic boost effects are bugged and do not work since forever. If you want it fixed, go in the old bug report section of CAs forum and upvote the bug report called: "[KNOWN] The trait "Extravagant" and the Astragoth defeat trait "Astragone" are both broken." It is knnown to them since over 1 year, so without upvote they will not care to fix it.

[@xiii0722]

​@@buggyenvironmentrip, a shame if this is still the case. Would enjoy the trait for Zhao or Balthasar as well.

[@buggyenvironment]

@@xiii0722 Yeah, unfortunately it is still unchanged.

[@rinserofwinds]

@@buggyenvironment I made an account and upvoted. thanks for the tip, this bug is infuriating.

[@joeljimenez4794]

I think it would be cool if they added defeat traits for the roaming sea pirates.

[@BraveSpy]

that's a cool idea

[@rinserofwinds]

yes, I would also like more unique armies like that and maybe even some random events with those armies, that result in small quest lines.

[@timbawden2577]

Dtier fixes without going crazy Alberic: +5 army attack during sea battles, +10% water movement rate Belegar: enemy spell resistance -5%, keep current effects too The Kraken: sea attrition immune, aquatic trait Grombrindal: terror for dwarves, remove "immune to psychology" from nearby enemies Alith Anar: 10 ambush success chance, and current effect Mazdamundi: 100% leadership aura size, +5 leadership aura effect

[@xiii0722]

Nice ideas tbh.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Alberic should be another source of no attrition from ocean based sources, too.

[@Eliwood29]

I hope they re adjust Tamurkhans defeat trait again to +1 hero capacity lol that nerf hurts so much

[@102728]

Morathi's defeat trait is also great for TK with their regular hero action cost while having basically no economy Gor'Rok's defeat trait is only really nice for Skrolk, but I agree that that doesn't warrant a higher tier than you gave it. Also, talking of Greasus' defeat trait, I really miss the physical trade routes from rome 1 / medieval 2. Those could be really impactful, and could be impacted much more than the abstract version we have now.

[@Hauke-ph5ui]

Only at the beginning of the campaign. If you built a big empire as the Tomb Kings you actually have a pretty healthy economy because they don't spend any money on upkeep - and it is fairly easy to get trade deals going as TK as well.

[@saulinvictus1241]

TK economy is good in 3, wdym no economy? They have much cheaper costs on their buildings, more growth and income while still having access to their charnel valley nectotect retinue and dynasty king that provides lower costs and build time. In WH3 you don't have the same issue as in WH2 when you had the whole southern part of the map secured and still next to no money, but like the exact opposite: afhet conquering whole of Nehekara and maybe a little to the north or south you soon have a ton of money without any significant ways to spend it besides mortuary cult.

[@rorybullock6513]

Really enjoyed this one, very informative and funny commentary from Legend just disparaging the D and low C tier lords.

[@steffens260]

Time to listen to for over an hour about a game I’ve never played

[@GooglyHerr]

Wood Elves tech gives dryad, tree kin and treeman and ALL ELF units 25% fire resistance. If you get them as an endgame crisis assuming you play with those, they'll have that. Durthu's trait is then equal to giving half or more of your enemies' units 25% resistance against all your normal attacks. It's way, way worse than even causes terror when fighting against dwarfs.

[@buggyenvironment]

Actually the all elf effects do not work on all heroes/lords from the Sisters DLC. So Orion, Spellsinger, Waywatcher and Glade lords get the fire resist, but the Sisters, Spellweaver, Glade Captains and Ariel do not get the fire resist. There is an open bug report that still needs upvotes to get fixed. If you want to help, go into CA forums and upvote the bug report called "Woodelf chars from Twisted and Twilight DLC are not considered elfs for skills/tech/Daith's Forge". Thanks in advance.

[@dwillis24]

Thanks for the hard work and great information!

[@tylercarr392]

Thank you for this video. Always wondered which traits were worth rushing for.

[@xa4ytywohku853]

i am not interested at all with this kind of stuff, but still gonna like and comment because of amount of work completed, well done Mr. Legend.

[@fyiicheckforspies]

0:25 oh no, we're not skipping any of this. This is the content we subscribed for

[@SquigsAndPigs]

Finally, some good fucking food.

[@briandutler4466]

Thank you legend! You always give us what we want!

[@vuko8767]

Another thing to consider with regards to Imrik's fire resistance is his location. If you're defeating him you're going to be in the darklands, which means chaos dwarf territory, which means lots of heavy emphasis on fire damage. One of the defeat traits very useful based on its geographic location IMO.

[@warriorfire8103]

Wow I never expected this kinda tier video. Like, comment and subscribed

[@PatrickOMulligan]

Tier lists are some of your best content.

[@rockstar6goalkeeper]

As someone who still plays Warhammer 2, I found the comparison bits quite interesting

[@Cairsoir]

I like defeat traits; it's not uncommon for my secondary lord to have more focus than starting legendary lord after I start gathering some relevant nearby traits on them, forging a story for them all the while. Never foget the Skarsnickers the Loony, gobbo who did what Grom failed and conquered realms of men, claensing all sorts of chaos, vampiric and elfy corruption on the way.

[@dano0911]

YES! I love Legend's tier lists!

[@l.m.srensen4559]

It’s been awhile since I killed him last, but I think I recall that Thorek Ironbrows trait ALSO applied to ranged, making SlaveSlingers an awesome support army for my Ikits.. maybe I’m wrong, but I think it’s true tho..

[@xiii0722]

Hmm, gotta try that out now. 3 ap missile dmg would be quite good.

[@buggyenvironment]

no, it does not, the effect would be called "+3 AP missile damage" if it would affect the missile damage.

[@buggyenvironment]

@@xiii0722 Unfortunately his statement is wrong. Still a good trait.

[@painof7]

Aranesa tho is a mandatory murder farm for Dark Elves. I want my black arks to have permanent regen thank you.

[@khankhomrad8855]

That sounds great, until you remember that no DE Lord spawn closer than half the world away from her. If you can afford to send Black Arks to farm her defeat bonus, you have already won the game and doesn't need it anymore.

[@painof7]

@@khankhomrad8855 you’re so right but but but you’ve actually just encouraged me to try a deranged Dark Elf Campaign in which I move my entire nation to Arensa- I mean Skavenblight 🤭 Do you think I have any hope of getting there before she dies?

[@painof7]

Like this should surely end up as a disaster campaign even if it is successful, right???

[@Floris_VI]

super good comprehensive tierlist man, i really enjoyed this one!

[@thesnagglewolf]

Heck yes, what a good video for a lazy Saturday

[@jesperkarlsson2853]

Snikch's defeat trait should be S tier for the fact it made me think you can have a Cathay dragon with stalk and I find that concept very funny

[@Ett.Gammalt.Bergtroll]

Astragoth’s trait can actually be S-tier, but only for a certain select group of LL’s. It is absolutely lovely on Azhag, for example. I always make sure to beat that stunty up early enough just to grab it.

[@Anonie324]

If it's that situational for groups of LL's, then it's not S-tier, is it? Just highly situational.

[@Ett.Gammalt.Bergtroll]

@@Anonie324 I never argued for it to be put in S-tier.

[@toggle3927]

You and Legendoftotalwar don't seem to know the effect duration doesn't work, and even if CA fixed it to do so would take more work from CA to apply to things like bombardments. It's a below average trait for sure.

[@buggyenvironment]

No, it is not at the moment, the whole magic boost effects are bugged and do not work since forever. If you want it fixed, go in the old bug report section of CAs forum and upvote the bug report called: "[KNOWN] The trait "Extravagant" and the Astragoth defeat trait "Astragone" are both broken." It is known to them since over 1 year, so without upvote they will not care to fix it.

[@buggyenvironment]

@@toggle3927 it would be good if it would work, but the the trait does not provide those effects at the moment due to being bugged (since introduction actually)

[@sev1120]

For Katarin's defeat trait, one benefit it has is being able to activate "by out blood" early for enemy Kislev units using the lord, particularly if the lord themselves doesn't cause terror. Each unit can only use By Our Blood once per battle, meaning that forcing it early can be good, especially if you're able to terror shock them

[@auze222]

dank tier list, been waiting for something like this for a while!

[@alexterror8]

Thank you for this tremendous labor

[@Mefungpoo]

Great Tierlist for the day!

[@gglanouille3060]

Frostbite attack from Katarina can bé a downside. You can only cause 1 contact effect. So if you're already doing poison, sundering Armor, cause flamable, charm or whatever, having it replaced by frostbite really sucks. So D tier, and SURELY Tamurkan isn't that bad. Like, it's not S tier anymore, but you've been a little harsh imo.

[@xiii0722]

Yeah that's also the reason I avoid ghorst at all ghost when playing imrik. Don't wanna lose my weakness to flame attacks. Happened once, was annoying since it's a 20‰ dmg loss essentially.

[@BraveSpy]

how does that work? if you have several contact effectts it's gonna be chosen randomly before battle or during battle it randomly applies out all of effects you have or the only active effect you have is the last you got?

[@xiii0722]

@@BraveSpy Yes, usually the last one you apply counts, that is the rule in MOST cases. Often you can for example overwrite the weapon effect with a follower (high elves have one that gives poison) but it doesn't always work like that. I had a few moments in different campaigns where that did not work, so some abilities or passives or banners take priority in a few cases. That's all I know, so you should definitely be smart about it and avoid certain defeat traits if you have a better contact effect.

[@BraveSpy]

@@xiii0722 thanks

[@dragontamer2474]

Kairo's defeat trait is S tier. But keeping him alive to farm his trait is D tier. Hate his turn stopping, settlement transferring powers. Amazing video!

[@twoddle5477]

Great content thanks

[@amilitarymind]

One of your best Tier Lists

[@mattlowman9857]

I think it'd be kinda cool, if not a little laborious, to do a Tier List of defeat traits for different goals. Like, a tier list of defeat traits to get if you're trying to make your LL/Lord a one-man doomstack in melee, or magic; if you're making a particular doomstack army (missile, artillery, melee, SE, etc)

[@СтаниславСорокин-ъ3б]

Make a one-man-doomstack tierlist please

[@GeraltofRivia22]

I hate how they butchered the defeat traits in 3. In fact I hate their trait balancing in general being no fun allowed.

[@kakaomilch5905]

I like balanced stuff that doesn't make the game a cake walk

[@Thedefenses]

"looks as most game 1 traits are complete shit that have no use" yeah, only in game 3, sure.

[@Bexty11]

@@kakaomilch5905the game is as hard as you want to make it, it has always been. I never get that logic and i really dont understand why there shouldnt be an incentitive to defeat LL. Noone makes you to hunt traitsnor farm traits for heroes.

[@Voxcast07]

@@kakaomilch5905 then don’t seek out specific defeat traits LMAO, if you’re not hunting for them, you’ll likely end up with 10 variations of constructor and hates elves

[@imperialisticvonhabsburg3149]

Unpopular take: if you want that kind of fun you should go play Warhammer 2.

[@ilari90]

I'd put frostbite above poison, 30% speed reduction let's you chase enemies down better. Poison is kinda bad if the other options are sunder or discourage effects and you can usually get poison other ways.

[@xiii0722]

Agree, I usually prefer it as well. Especially for ranged armies and/or if my lord has a ranged attack.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

A side note Units can only have one contact effect, with the last gained source being the one that's active, so for say, Imrick, Frostbite is F tier, because he's losing the Flammable effect, basically cutting his damage by 20%. It's not always pure upside

[@thest0mpa]

47:33 I'm not sure the 2nd half of that trait is up to date, OR it changes based on the faction, as Balthasar Gelt its + casulties post battle and -25% casualties from all attrition. Update, I have checked several other lords even another lizardmen and they all seem to be -attrition not untainted, so either there is 1 specific lord/faction that gets untainted or that is outdated.

[@Amokhunter]

Wohoo, tierlist!

[@thevermintide1290]

On the off chance you read this a playthrough style I've found thats worked really well recently in WH3 is actually stacking all the Post battle loot and extra loot from sacking settlement modifiers I can early and amassing enough gold reserve fast enough that I can just spam out a few crapstacks way earlier than most AI factions can deal with makes the early game on most factions quite smooth.

[@oenkrad9404]

I would consider Morathi's A-tier. Doing hero actions frequently (or even infrequently depending on the faction) can be rather cost prohibitive. Morathi's trait doesn't need to be farmed that much before you have completely free hero actions faction-wide even without skill point investment, meaning you also don't need to spend that much time keeping her alive and you can move on.

[@knarfxd4071]

Legend, a tip (but it'll be more effort editing wise): show the defeat trait on screen while talking about it or something. Maybe it's just me, but it'd make it a lot easier to follow. Maybe because i have you on my 2nd monitor while working lol

[@De_Wit]

Mr Legend, a question. In the next defeat traits video, could you add the trait buffs in text to the video while you talk about them? Maybe bottom of the screen? Tastefull fond? I'm getting a bid forgetful, and remember better by reading. Great vid as allways

[@samarkand1585]

I had no idea what Yuan Bo's defeat trait was before I beat him, my jaw dropped when I saw it after I beat him with Mazdamundi

[@michaelbraddock467]

Sisters of twilight defeat trait is good for empire's engineer lords on steam tank.))

[@xiii0722]

Also Kathep from the tomb Kings, and I guess noctilus wouldn't mind it either.

[@DesevPostMortem]

That's why there's defeat trait mods, to make the worst ones actually useful !

[@mochiboot6502]

Some truly cursed knowledge in this video

[@adavis7292]

Hey Legend, I've got a question. In many of your videos you mention how important Wurzhag's defeat trait is and how it should ways be one of the first ones you get. How does that work when playing as someone like Tamurkhan with Nurgle. He's so far away from Wurzhag. How do you get that trait early?

[@GoBills-ux8mz]

The fact that Surtha Ek has such an amazing trait for beating Settra is bonkers

[@dazkaz15]

Very informative video, but would need you to put up the traits, in writing, in pop up window as you were talking about them, for me to put this video in the S tier list

[@blodstainer]

Kingslayer giving percentage based charge boost is REALLY good, I'd easily rank it as B tier. For lords with massive charge mounts like Norsca Mammoths or Tomb Kings Warsphinxes stacking charge bonus and getting that percentage boost is massive.

[@buggyenvironment]

The flat bonus is better than percentage boni, as those only work on the BASE charge bonus, so the 10% from Blood Feuder only add 6 or 7 points to the mounts you mentioned.

[@Ghost_Wolf905]

I think the 'outdated' wiki's are the ones that are correct in TWW:2, because as far as I can tell there isn't a separate wiki page for each version of the game. This would explain the traits that apply to defunct mechanics being changed for TWW:3. Not sure why they don't update it, though to be fair the amount of content you'd have to cover is quite a lot.

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

Two questions: Updated empire unit list soon? Also, when making unit tier list, could you mention (if any) units that benefit more from army buffs and unit XP than others? Best Regards.

[@yoggz]

I remember someone suggesting this on stream

[@Ghalion666]

I've been playing for almost 100 hours (not much I know, I just got the game this year), and while I've defeated many lords, and legendary lords, I don't even know what a defeat trait is. I imagine I'll glean what they are by watching the video, but I'm saving that for later. Just wanted to brag about how dumb I was first though! =P

[@noahandrulis9077]

1:05:46 I would argue that there’s a bit of value in having Stalk on a spellcaster lord, unless casting spells prevents stalking. It can also be useful specifically for the Cathayan LLs, who want to close to melee but have no mount options, so the Stalk attribute helps keep fire off of them for just a bit longer. Still a bad perk, but not as bad as it could be.

[@buggyenvironment]

Before one of the 4.X patches, you remained hidden when casting. The only exception were bombardment and missile spells. Now every spell you cast will reveal you unless the character has snipe.

[@noahandrulis9077]

@@buggyenvironment good to know.

[@dust7001]

I agree with most things, One thing to note about Setra is his start location - it's pretty close to Repanse and Brettonia is so cycle charge dependent that I feel charge bonus buffs can very easily become S tier. I personally make it an early game goal to kill him for this trait early on every Repanse campaign I do. You also seem to rate charge bonus very low in general and commented that "most people won't have a lot of calvary" but there are at least 3 factions that charge bonus directly correlates to power - Brettonia obviously, Ogres, and and Slaanesh, Honorable mention to Wood Elves and Green Skins for Stag Knights and Snottling Wagons respectively. I can only think of one faction off the top of my head who doesn't gain at least some value out of charge which is Dwarves, in fact... I would actually say it is more valuable than Drazhoath's De-Towered. Issue with Drazhoath's is he basically increases gold, while on paper that sounds great, the issue is his location in relation to factions that would actually need it. By the time I can get anywhere near him on Brettonia for example gold is the last thing I care about, If he was easily accessible to Franz I would be farming him every time I run him, but by the time you would be trait farming him it's a nice bonus but hardly S tier. Also personally I find leadership aura's to be very underrated but I also play a lot of armies that have both a lot of low leadership units, and a lot of units that have conditional leadership unit buffs like Chaos Dwarves and Brettonia, so the aura tends to get more value when your lord is also buffing the low leadership chaff in other ways.

[@buggyenvironment]

Skarbrands trait is the only charge bonus trait that benefits the whole army, all other charge bonus traits only affect the lord itself, therefore they do not benefit your cavalry units.

[@dust7001]

@@buggyenvironment Oh! my mistake! Thanks for correcting me, guess no more killing Setra for me.

[@buggyenvironment]

@@dust7001 Your welcome. No problem, the game is often really unclear on such things so it is very easy to miss such details. Happy Skarbrand slaying instead.

[@HiQueenJenn]

Just a question: why is Throgg at backend of B, whilst Imrik, Rakarth, and Kholek are all in A tier? He has almost double anti large than two of them and only slightly less than Kholek. Is weapon strength that much worse that negative leadership to monsters and fire resist?

[@buggyenvironment]

Fireresist to remove the weakness against fire from regeneration is much more impactful than the pitiful amounts of damage you get from those traits.

[@CalebAdams]

Yo! Would love to see you play some of Pharoah's Dynasty!

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@dernium]

Yes, an ambitious and welcome video! Thanks Legend!

[@buggyenvironment]

Malagor's entry is wrong, since the late days of WH2 the leadership part was changed to "+4 leadership for lords army" against everything like Gor-Rok. (Strange, that this entry was never updated in the wiki considering that he is so close to Skarbrand which is a super popular lord.) Teenie-weenie part with "+3 untainted" was changed to "25% less attrition" since late WH2 too.

[@Moncrom]

Hey Legend, could you maybe make a video about what effects in TWWH 3 stack ? I allways get very frustrated when some things stack and I can do really cool things with it and some don't. I never really know how to tell.

[@nogsan195]

Watching this video 2 days after release, seems the wiki got updated already :D

[@XD-lw3it]

Hi Legend, can you make a tier list of your favorite factions?

[@kevinhawkins6322]

Hey, new subscriber, I love the saving your disaster videos. Do you do any of those still?

[@danielray7965]

Yes he does, look at his recent videos

[@mladent1918]

Balthasar Gelt's defeat trait is good but I think it's not better than Marcus Wulfhart's, I'm aware that 6% armor is for all units but 5% damage for missile units is great and plus 10% missile resistance for Lord is just better, but that just my opinion.

[@saulinvictus1241]

Gelt has flat +6 (same applies for Zhao). Armor boost is better for every single army especially if you want to autoresolve more or have some low armor units (Malakai and Wulfhart are good for farm only if you have some good missile like elves, Empire or dwarves). And Gelt-Zhao combo is especially good now when those two start next to each other (plus Miao to the north) and can be farmed in quick succession.

[@HiveFleetKronos40K]

Gelts is more universally useful. everyone benefits from more armor, not everyone benefits from more missile damage

[@bigquazz3955]

I believe you over valued research rate defeat traits. It's useful universally for sure, but research rate needs to hit a break point before it has any impact and it's calculated per technology. It doesn't round down, so that 10% won't even reduce the turns needed to research in most cases. Research rate is something you need to stack for impact, and the traits alone aren't enough. There are also a handful of factions that have easy access to steal technology heroes, which are much better than the defeat traits. Steal tech can let you quickly stack several hundred % more research. Up to like 35% more per hero, plus all the free student ancillaries... an extra 10% from a trait there is certainly not S tier.

[@Haromour]

Love me some Legend tier lists, fuck ya

[@0786RICARDO]

The mazdamundi defeat trait could be passable when playing as vampires, skaven, VC to help summons hold from far away. But it's pretty weak even then

[@JörgNienhaus-t6j]

I would actually really like the option the enable or disable stalk in the character details it also would make sense to be honest

[@rickylahey657]

As an avid user of the defeat trait mod for lords. I will be heavily judging.

[@thest0mpa]

For Gor-Rok's defeat trait, i think its top of C rather than B for everyone except Clan pestilence where it would be mid to high B because scaven leadership is trash and they are one of the early factions that encounter him, most other factions are either in the are and don't need such a small buff, or have to travel far too much to actually get the trait. Tho I know its not ranked for individuals because that would take 15 years to actually do.

[@jasondoherty7497]

I use trait mods and I’ve used it so long I don’t think I’ll go back to vanilla because it can be thematic especially when winning against a race multiple times

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

That Nakari defeat trait makes me want to start up a Malakai campaign and roll waves of gyrocopters over Ulthuan

[@greatknight526jt8]

Kairos being able to get his own defeat trait through his quest battle might also factor in a bit.

[@nocturnaljoe9543]

I miss having a full army of heros with Grimgor in early game. After farming Tamurkhan.

[@mariuskroll829]

I think you said that the mechanic of "winds of magic increasing in strength when changing" was completly removed, but the lingering buff from alariell still applies it, at least that's what the tooltip said. If you only ment it's been removed from defeat traits then nvm.

[@Asasz6]

Chance of plague spreading from Ku'gath got nerfed from 80% to 20%.