Legion Tank Comparison - Ranked

Preacher takes a look at all the tank classes side by side to see which one is doing what.
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[@aboxofcheese4788]

12:35 - Prot Paladin 17:33 - Prot Warrior 24:17 - Vengeance DH 30:28 - Blood DK 36:20 - Guardian Druid

[@iceee420]

accurate but skipping the beginning is pointless

[@aboxofcheese4788]

+iceee420 Absolutely, it's mostly for OCD reasons.

[@iceee420]

+Splintrax The Cupcakeman fair enough

[@its_deer]

+Venne Derp Calm the hell down please.

[@14Vennegoor]

deer the amount of ppl using medical conditions to be funny or justify their stupidity triggers me mb

[@TonyMon16]

well if your tank died, and you did everything right than the healer failed... thats good gameplay, and how it should be.

[@MrHoneuma]

No, no its not.

[@matthewshelton650]

+Honeuma Tsubasa I mean tanks shouldnt just be able to faceroll everything. If you get a shit healer that isnt competent then you should be running into problems. The whole point of group gameplay is for the group to work together to accomplish the task. Not one player carries the group while everyone else smashes buttons and eats snacks.

[@Dranex11]

couldnt agree more.. these changes seem fine..

[@octy2091]

If you have a shit healer, your whole dps army will die -- this is how it should be. If you have a shit healer, your tank (assumed skilled) will most likely die but probably takes a longer time -- this is how it should be. Combined -- if you have a shit healer, your tank will live longer, your dps will die -- you will hit enrage timer (hence why u have enrage in the first place). What happened seems to be -- no matter how good your tank is -- it's purely based on your healer. That doesn't sound like group or teamwork -- that's pinning the job on one fucking type of class and your success is whether or not this class does good. Playing as a group means -- (1) Your tank does well (2) Your healer does well (3) Your DPS does well -- NOT and DEFINITELY NOT (1) Your tank does shit (2) Your healer does well (3) Your dps does meh.

[@matthewshelton650]

+victor ng Im guessing if you have shit dps you will wipe too. Watching healer vids it sounds like mana costs of heals are pretty high and healers arent just going to be able to heal and heal all day and carry a shit group through content.

[@skroot7975]

Why not make bosses hit harder on the tanks instead of gutting it to unfun-ness. Why do Blizzard think that casual players want a brainless button spam? It's. Not. Fun. Stop it.

[@Hirotoro4692]

+Skroot go tank a mythic boss. They hurt. Heroic boss? less. Normal boss? Even less. Same thing in legion.

[@ceruleandusk]

Well, this is disappointing...

[@greatscott175]

Yep, that's WoW.

[@AndersMurberg]

+luciano wendling ;^(

[@CornbreadPops]

is it too late for the excuse that it's alpha... and tunning still needs work

[@jaman198]

+Cornbread ya

[@kn0bhe4d]

+Cornbread This isn't about tuning, it's about the fundamental design.

[@CornbreadPops]

+Bull true but seeing how they were quick to fix subtlety rogue back when it was first release there's hope for tanks... at least I hope!

[@ErikTaylor]

+Cornbread unfortunately Arms Warrior in WoD disagrees. Constant player feedback was ignored for the entirety of WoD testing. They only abandon ship when it suits them.

[@orvilgrunmeier7559]

What they did to Arms is why I stopped playing for like a year in WoD. 5.4 arms warrior was perfect.

[@JoshuaRAWRR]

12:35 - Paladin 17:33 - Warrior 24:18 - Demon Hunter 30:35 - Death Knight 36:22 - Druid

[@1lichfield]

But blizz say that the number one reason people leave WoW is due to their class being changed too much... yet they seem to have completely done it again this expansion.

[@IIArchonII]

+1lichfield I hope they don't waste too much dev time on all these class changes that piss off just as many people as they please. Example like reworking DK runes, I hope that change didn't take more than 10 mins of dev time

[@volrag]

+1lichfield Yup, and i would have thought blizzard would have learned by now how bad an idea it is to have tanks generate resources based almost exclusively on how much damage they take, but they seem to be doing that again :(.

[@1lichfield]

+IIArchonII same, and the gorefiends grasp change is annoying.

[@1lichfield]

+Volrag I remember the day when overgeared warriors had to take armor off just so they could take damage to create rage.

[@Perid0tStar]

+1lichfield I think that when they were saying that, it was in the context of a class being changed often during the course of an expansion itself, but most classes are always changed before the beginning of each expansion. I think the most untouched ones were the rogues for a couple of them, but otherwise I'd be hard pressed to come up with any where time really stood still. Preach's Legacy videos have some interesting looks into that process, where they focus on a specific classes journey through time.

[@Quivna]

The top comment is such a troll. Preach Gaming said the skill sealing in tanking was much lower in Legion which made tanking boring and unrewarding... people these days with their conclusions ffs

[@Intelligenkeit]

less good tanks had huge problems. Sounds good to me. If you cant even play LEGION WoW, a fuckin expansion, which has 3 buttons like it is almost a MOBA and still fail, then you derserve to get punished.

[@kallmannkallmann]

less good tanks = about 90% of all tanks in the game aka majority will have hard time in dungs/raids becuse the tanks cant play properly and therfor have less fun and the need for good tanks will get crazy high and loads of guilds will get destroyed etc...sure maby dont matter to u becuz u prob got a good tank in your community but srsly..your not the only palyer in the game

[@kallmannkallmann]

***** well the problem is a big part of wows playerbase cant play properly and then making the role unplayable if u cant play properly is a bad idea...like if u can do dps rotation properly u will do 100k but if u fail a little u will only do 10k...seems unbalanced

[@jvjd]

Warrior tanking in a nutshell Full armor = less rage for mitigation , naked = lots of rage for mitigation So upgrading your armor is not an upgrade but a downgrade for you :) Anyone ready for some pantless dungeon runs as a warrior??

[@heartfang21]

my huge dong will make them attack out of jealousy. or, you know, confuse them, since warriors shouldn't have pet snakes.

[@lolzomgz1337]

Ok?

[@xardellion]

Back in the day, as protection warrior, you had to avoid parry and dodge like the plague, as it absolutely butchered your rage generation. Looks like we're back to it, I suppose Blizzard thought they should go back to Burning Crusade, except they took the wrong parts.

[@Chronyk-uz8so]

@@heartfang21 stop compensating idiot

[@hellstorme]

Man, back in the day tanking wasn't about damage, it was about aggro. Managing threat, picking it up, positioning, protecting your allies... You sacrificed all your offensive power and 'play making' potential to become the thing that allows others to succeed. The front line, the vanguard... You were supposed to be extremely hard to kill because you had 3 or 4 other things to worry about... Timers, aggro swaps, positioning, phases, etc. I'm not saying that tanks do literally the work, I was saying that in the same way the DPS doesn't have to worry about aggro, they are allowed to focus on similar things... Now forcing tanks to worry about getting 100-0'd in 3 seconds is a terrible choice. I liked tanking since BC (even though I tanked in vanilla) and almost every expac was a new challenge, if not an improvement. If what you say is true, this is a massive step-back in terms of tank gameplay.

[@RazanaArcclaw]

lol no tanks still had to use cooldowns on certain abilities... and sometimes we're still 1 shot

[@theVoidyTv]

+Gaius Maecanus and you farmed 5 days consumables so you could raid 2 days while focking dps did this in one evening.

[@hellstorme]

+greenyoshi100 Ok. Never said they didn't, but read what you will.

[@hellstorme]

+the Void My comment wasn't in regard to that, it was in regard to the tank's role in the group. That was the trade off... Becoming an 'unkillable' badass in exchange for being useless almost anywhere else. It was what it was, and for me at least (after vanilla) it was really fun.

[@DIEGhostfish]

+Gaius Maecanus They want to go back to the meme days of "Every wipe is the Priest's Fault" clearly.

[@Marnek90]

"i dont feel like a tank, i feel like i have aggro, i feel like i am doing very poor dps". Isn't that what a tank is supposed to do? Yes it is!

[@SalvLav]

I think you missed the memo 8 years ago. Threat isn't the thing for tanks anymore, AM is. If they take away AM but dont add threat back in, thats just lowering the skill ceiling

[@mrpinkshirt4]

lmao "Pain" is the Demon Hunter resource? Who the fuck is approving these names? I would think Fel Energy would make the most sense for the resource name. Maybe somebody better versed in the the lore can correct me on that.

[@Staygold1999]

craaawling in my skiiin.

[@BossGalka]

PRIEST! HEY, PRIEST! THESE WOUNDS, THEY WILL NOT HEAL!

[@Eluneya]

+Boss Galka yo...warlock fucking FEAR IS HOW I FALL

[@riotmakergaming7105]

CON-FLA-GRATE IS REALLLLLL

[@matthewshelton650]

I could see their resource being "hatred" or "malevolence" but fucking pain? Thats so lame lol like a dh feels pain and is all of the sudden empowered to do cool things. What a lame concept.

[@Viertel]

To all the people that keep saying "Preach doesn't like difficult dungeons" "Isn't more difficult dungeons better?" "LONG LIVE TBC HEROICS!"....you aren't actually paying attention to the video. Like a lot of forum trolls you pick one piece of information and stick with it and go to an outlandish, entirely unrelated tangent. He's talking about the fact that as it currently stands on Legion, what you do as a tank in order to perform to your maximum potential *does not matter*. Jimmy Bob Danny Boy Billy Frank can faceroll across the keyboard and hit buttons at random, and someone used to Mythic clearing in WoD can hit things in an 'optimal' fashion, yet both end up with extremely similar performance and damage intake. Sure, it works for whatever goal Blizzard was going for (i.e. dumbing it down) but the problem becomes that your active mitigation is so entirely weak compared to MoP and WoD that it doesn't really affect anything important -- like Preach said active mitigation works decently well for normal damage but on anything really important (i.e. big trash mobs or bosses) it's nigh useless and barely noticeable unless it prevents some debuff. i.e. Your active mitigation is utter shit in Legion as it stands now, but they're still designing fights around tank damage intake you'd see in late WoD. *That's not a tuning issue*; that's a deliberate design philosophy. You REALLY don't feel like a tank anymore, and that's the core of the issue. You simply don't feel like a tank. Your active mitigation is extremely minor and you just feel like a weaksauce shit DPS with weaksauce shit defensive cooldowns. ~~~~~~~~~~~ The other big thing is the Brewmaster playstyle and the entire debacle surrounding the "proper way to play it in Legion". I don't remember in any other time in WoW where the developers had to release an entire post detailing how they expect you to play a spec, including when you should use what. That raises a *gigantic* red flag and is indicative of what's wrong with the re-design process in a lot of specs. WoW's specs have, for the most part, been really intuitive. There have always been further steps you could take to make a spec go that extra mile, but the core mechanics haven't been overly difficult to pick up. Preach's guides in the past, as well as other KZbinrs, have illustrated that WoW's specs all have a single core mechanic and once you lock down on that everything falls into place on its own (Sub Rogue's Shadow Dance, Arms Warrior's smash windows, Arcane Mage's mana management, etc.). If you, as a developer, have to explain how a spec/class/job is supposed to be played (especially in one that's already existed for years), then you've utterly *failed* at your design. Clarifying an ability or mechanic is one thing; needing to go over the entire spec and detailing how you expect it to work shows a major failure in the key concept of gameplay design in a combat spec.

[@femboyfacist]

This comment section man. Taking my experience from tanking in WoTLK, MoP, and WoD, I feel that the "take away skill for tanks = better tanking" excerpt is bullshit. If Legion really wanted to make the classes as they were intended they would have kept the Paly and Warrior tanks as they were with tweaks, then buffed the DKs and Druids. I'm not opposed to change. This change, however, takes my preferred style of play and removes the skill and enjoyment of being "good at tanking". I'm willing to tell more, just reply to me. I want to hear more opinions that are worth my time.

[@leroylol]

Yesss. Tankin has turned to shit and im glad im not the only one who agrees. Tanking is my preferred style of play and with it like this its terrible but ill manage :p (maybe)

[@GeniusUnleashed]

I don't need the DK buff. I wish they kept DK's as is. If you know how to play BDK, people are always amazed at how easy they are to heal. Two button BDK sounds boring as hell.

[@Selppins]

I haven't played a tank in legion, but from what I understand, it sounds like a really great idea. Having a tank that can carry an entire group just because they have limitless resources and whack a few mobs is kinda BS (threat hasn't been an issue in a long, long time). Now that tanks will be getting hit a lot harder, the healer will have issues keeping up and this means that CC will once again be important to maintain. And since CC will be important, DPS will also play more of an important role in 5-mans. I think this will better lend itself to doing content as an actual group that has to actually cooperate instead of just mind-numbingly pushing buttons until things die. One of the biggest problems with LFD and LFR is that you don't give a shit if a person is good or not because 1. you'll never see them again 2. bad people still do okay enough in dungeons for it not to really matter 3. a group can be carried by one or two people. Having who you're playing with matter more should build a stronger community because you're going to want to group up with people who are actually going to get stuff done. Then, playing with the same people becomes a lot more fun at that point because you get to know each other. Obviously, this is speculation, but I think it'll be a good change. They really need to work on the community aspect of the game... It's probably the biggest reason I've quit on and off since LFD (which was really great for leveling, but really hurt the game, IMO) and LFR came out.

[@fgcewoud4106]

The lack of new abilities and removal of iconic skills and/or talents makes it so bad for me. Not to mention the lack of interesting abities...

[@mafiotzi]

It's def not 2 buttons. Part of my rotation buttons are: Marrowrend, Bloodboil, Death Strike, Heart Strike, DnD...and than the mitigation buttons. Those 5 buttons in the rotation ...u use em regularly. Plus u can get more buttons to press with diff talents. Legion BDK is a big improvement in play style over WoD. I like this new style alot.

[@aeolock1520]

Looked for an Tank Comparison this afternoon and couldnt find a good one. So I cooked dinner, came back to the PC, went on KZbin and there I see this baller delivering! You, good Sir, are the real MVP!

[@fuccini3181]

Soo tanks' survival being dependent on their own skill was a problem? And now their survival is just dependent on largely the healers' skill instead, meaning if your healer is shit you literally can't do anything but die? Sounds like some quality changes to me

[@RibbyCribby]

Cata heroic tanking was awesome early. It was so difficult and required a lot of mechanics. Eventually it turned into a faceroll after they were nerfed

[@strongside4565]

I hate to be that guy but I just liked when Dks healed, warriors and pallies blocked, and druids took less damage to make up for not having block or parry. If they change how tanks work every single xpac they are going to have scaling issues just like they have for the last 7ish years. My major reasoning for switching to fury when I played was because tanking in MoP just had me feeling like a dps with a fuckload of health. I could just be a salty vet but I thought it was cool when tanks had double the health of dps, didn't take shit for damage unless they were intended to and had to make due with basic small cooldowns to take as little as possible and big ones to not get crushed by high damage attacks. There was a definite art to being stalwart in times passed and tanks that were shitty were easy to spot.

[@chameleonedm]

+Strongside Agree, I've gone back to tbc servers and the difference is even more dramatic than your comment suggests.

[@DiAmOnD595]

it seems that Stephen Frost has been able to toss his opinions into the game design more frequently than i thought. the overall changes to the tanking:healing synergy has been ripped directly out of wildstar's book. you'll find that, hopefully if blizzard stays true, the skill requirement for the playerbase will rise. the dps will have to not stand in anything, if they do they won't get healed. the healers will have to use their tools properly to keep the tank alive. the tanks will need to use their actives to reduce the mana consumption of their healer. i can understand why someone from a world first position looking into the future can see this as a bad change for the playerbase as a whole. i however disagree. the further away from wrath of the litchking heroics the gameplay gets the better.

[@emetsalt2678]

then melees are kinda fucked aren't they legion encounters are not melee friendly :D

[@Giliver]

+Loquendero Amv yet they added more melee specs to the game:/

[@emetsalt2678]

Raybeze because fuck logic :D

[@Giliver]

ahh, so that's where frost went! I was wondering that. lol

[@DiAmOnD595]

***** you didn't read what i commented. well done. you twisted someone's statement to fit your own opinion.

[@reyalexandro]

can we get a healing one plz

[@dewcodered88]

Nope you are spot on with how tanking feels in Legion :(. Please get on the alpha forums and make your voice heard Preach. We need some help getting them to stop this train wreck. I am a Prot warrior main but I dont know for how much longer.

[@nickizgr8]

+dewcodered88 Preach is a EU player. Blizz only responds on the NA forums. Which you can only access if you have a NA account that's flagged for alpha.

[@dewcodered88]

Satan Ugh that is such a bummer :(

[@LightupX]

+dewcodered88 this is how he voice his opinion (also it's confirmed there are devs who watch his videos)

[@michaelgreer6432]

+dewcodered88 Never thought I'd say this, but rolling a bear seems like it might be appealing. The changes for all the classes are really disappointing.

[@dewcodered88]

Lightup I sure hope they listen :( and I hear ya Michael Greer, Bear or Vengeance will prolly be my main if I decide to even bother.

[@robertgrant7946]

I am finally done. I have abandoned my Protection Paladin main of 11 years for a Fury / Protection Warrior. As of the current BETA build I am still not tanking.

[@Eluneya]

likewise...wtf is prot pally now

[@robertgrant7946]

MagePowa A boring meat shield with absolutely no meaningful gameplay. That is what Protection Paladin is. I do want to add that the Protection Warrior isn't much better but Fury is a ton of FUN! That is why we play games.

[@Crawel077]

i am considering going bear or dps all together for legion I have played pally since wolk and now I'm just like wtf have you done to my pally blizzard

[@darkookanovic9485]

is prot warrior fun atleast? i main prot war right now and i do think switching to fury in elgion but it would be shame to leave him if hes utter boring shit

[@MakisOfEquinox]

I could literally copy and paste this, and it would match my tragically upsetting feels. I've been playing this since '06. I honestly don't know what to do, I'm thinking I might have to go play monk which i don't hate, but I really don't want to main it. I might end up playing my DK, but I'd really liek to have a healing spec as I don't care to DPS. I'm sorry for my Protadin brothers

[@Meyymun]

+Preach Gaming once they remove the whole low health element of the brewmaster, which they said they are working on doing. Where would you put the brewmaster in this list?

[@robertgrant7946]

Preacher... I (Gryphandor) am not sure if you look at the Alpha class forums much but I am trying my hardest to post my issues with the Protection Paladin build after build. I have been a Protection Paladin since Burning Crusade. Most of us want Holy Power back. We want a resource to manage. We feel our rotation is clucky because it doesn't matter what we hit as long as it is off cool down. All that has done is made the Protection Paladin very boring to play. Now in the next build they want to move some talents around and give us Seraphim. All of our feedback and concern got us Seraphim....... Not happy even in the slightest. It isn't going to do anything to improve gameplay other then cost 2 charges of Shield of the Righteous for us to worry about. Oh if they release official Legacy realms nothing will keep me here playing Legion in any progression capacity. I am really trying to understand how any of the developers find this fun or if it is all about just keeping it simple and easy for anyone to play. That then goes against giving us a rewarding complex choice of gameplay. It just doesn't exist for the Protection Paladin. Really hope they wake up and fix this before it is released.

[@robertgrant7946]

I would be fine with that. My problem is that it is absolutely no fun to play and that we have no meaningful choices to make. That just isn't fair. It is like being overly punished for doing something wrong. I don't even know what level of skill they are trying to design this stuff around.

[@protess5]

to be fair, its not like other tanking classes are antal better imo. Even now, warriors, druids, and Dk's are all quite easy to play i lost all interest in talking in SoO. paladins were the only talking class left that felt like Blizzard wanted talking to be hard. (yet they were severely punished in early HM) now all you need to do in most raids as a tank is to stand and prevent your own death, while the deeps make all of the fun stuff =\

[@kallmannkallmann]

+WoWznaggels if i understand Preach right prot pala is still prob top tier on the paper..question is if anyone want to play it now

[@robertgrant7946]

I have played Protection Paladin since BC. Not sure who these changes are geared toward. Not any player that wants meaningful gameplay or choices that matter. So this Legion version of the Protection Paladin isn't for me. I really hope Blizzard sees the error of their ways before it is too late to do anything about it. I really do.

[@bub64882]

Not in the alpha, but the removal of holy power (finally!) is the only thing bringing me back to the class I mained from TBC and Wrath and into Cata. Adding a resource is fine, but please...no combo points. Just wanted to share another perspective.

[@Zeik188]

Unpopular opinion: I am thankful Paladin's are losing Holy Power. I tanked through wrath and was known as one of the best tank on my (admittedly small) server. When they added Holy Power, I hated it. I still hate it. And I'm glad it's gone. Fuck that mechanics. I am not a rogue and I don't need combo points.

[@leroylol]

How the fuck are you supossed to tank if you cant mitigate. I main a prot pally all the way since the end of cata and i cant see myself not being able to use active mitigation as effectively anymore if the keep this up. The mitigation is what saved me so many times from a guaranteed wipe. In blackhands crucible it was litteraly me 2 healers and a few dps and he had like 5% left and the mitigation is what saved the healers from running out of mana and me from diying. Mitigation plays a core role in tanking and if you arent able to even do that, you are litteraly just a shitty dps that has to add taunting into their rotation. I hope they realize their mistake sooner than later so tanks can be actual tanks. It doesnt matter that tanks should rely on a healer much more often. In fact if they need to rely on healers more, dps would all die and its just gonna make litteraly every add wipe the run. Using mitigation right is the key aspect of tanking. I should know ..every alt of mine that can

[@leroylol]

Every alt of mine that can tank does so just for insta ques :p. So i have like 3-4 diff tanks that i play and i use mitigation on all of them all the time. When i raid i NEED the mitigation so healers dont need to focus on me more. I don't understand blizz thinking when they want tanks to rely more on healers it's absolutely absurd. They are just asking for even the top guilds to not even want to do the raids because they litteraly are unable to complete them. This is litteraly game breaking and defeats the purpose of even havig a tank

[@leroylol]

But then again the artifacts prolly have a role in the mitigation and since he didnt really cover it well...take what he says with some salt cause first he was sick and second hes prolly pissed at wod as are every single person. (I was actually looking forward to wod with the garrisons when we were still in mop. I dont like how everything is right there but its the easiest way to make gold so why complain :p)

[@gore14]

Name is Leeroy Jenkins, auto-troll. tl;dr

[@SHUNGITE-EMPLOYEE]

New sub here, thanks for taking the time to try out all of the classes in much detail. I main a prot warrior and you basically told me, obviously not what i wanted to hear but the actualy reality of everything

[@xxalucard66xx]

Some of your complaints struck me more as whining than legitimate concerns. tanking and healing are always rougher at an xpac start. play what you want to play guys, this video was just a waste in my opinion.

[@xxalucard66xx]

In that regard I'd agree, all of the tanks have been set to a similar system, though healers were aggressively homogenized during Cata so this isn't surprising.

[@benderbg]

And people were crying when Ghostcrawler was designing WoW classes. Now we ended up with Cluelesstalon and Dorkphen, killer of Wildstar. ggwp cya on Legacy servers :D

[@jonathanmuegge5164]

+benderbg Legacy servers won't be happening. :)

[@charlus1756]

Currently a 13/13M Protection paladin.. This video makes me want to cry. Removing Holy Power gives us nothing to manage, its just pressing the buttons that are available carelessly, where is the skill required? Why the hell would anyone want to tank anymore? How can I optimize myself? I really hope some changes come about because I've tanked the entire time I've played this game and I feel crushed. Might as well stop calling it the skill ceiling and call it the floor because it seems that no matter how much you research or prepare, it'll barely make a difference in what you can bring to the table in this model.

[@gerardc.9052]

+Charles Ayres Do you ever actually manage you holy power?.... be serious do you ever actually manage it.

[@charlus1756]

+Baws Life I never stop managing it. I play Seraphim on every fight so you need to be pooling at the right times to keep a high uptime as well as ensuring it's available for active mitigation at key points on fights like Kilrogg, Mannoroth, and Zakuun. Holy power pooling can be extremely useful on fights like Archimonde where he doesn't actually attack while casting Wrought Chaos, Allures, or other spells so you can load up on it, and then drop it out with back to back SotRs for 6 seconds of strong physical mitigation while dragging him to a new position. Managing this resource is what (should) dictate a lot of your play style currently. The more holy power you can generate, the more you can mitigate, deal out damage, and keep yourself alive with healing. That management is what governs a lot of my quick decisions in combat and I love how it took me a while to get to where I am tanking now. If anything, Legion tanking seems much more like playing whack-a-mole with whatever abilities are available rather than having a reactionary rotation that can be tuned for different encounters.

[@gerardc.9052]

Charles Ayres I feel like your taking holy power a lot bit to seriously if you know what im saying. Building holy power is really easy and doesn't have to be pooled, There can be 5-3 secs left till a shred armor or any of those other mechanics like it and you can gain full holy power before it goes off, and taking Seraphim is just to make it harder on yourself, Seraphim is prob the only thing that makes tanking harder other than that its no big problem. My point is holy power did not make anything harder or easier unless you wanted it to (Seraphim if you did want it to). Now if it were a monk where you might actually run out of a resource like energy or chi then it would be a problem, but with a pally you just always gonna have something up to generate holy power.

[@buliwyfZrage]

+Baws Life ^PvE People take most stuff as far too hard in the first place. Holy Power was never hard to manage if it can get generated by spells.

[@Yukanag]

My mane concern is there are hardly enough tanks around as it is. If they make tanks boring than LFR and dungeon finder is going to be twice as long as it should be.

[@MrJustinArt]

I like that bear tanks looks good so far. I've considered leveling a druid before Legion hits.

[@Joeyfield0]

I'm already level 68 on my bear. (I have two druids, shame they're in different realms, but all four specs will me mines, muahahahaha, hahaha, haha, wait druids shouldn't be evil what am I doing...)

[@MattWhitmire]

Watched a few tanking comparison vids lately and yours is, by far, the best, hands down.

[@kel12123]

So you want to run in and have an easy mode tank experience but then you'd complain it's to easy. Harder is better and having a decent group is how it should have always stayed. People like you confuse Blizzard as you want hard then when it's hard you want it easy, I think it's time for you to stop playing mmo's.

[@robs9980]

I'm upvoting this because this is the same vibe I'm getting. When he reviews the faceroll classes, "They feel great, I really love them". Reviews the technical classes, "I just get smashed and die". Yet he claims that the mobs should be hitting harder. Honestly, WoTLK is when I played 3 tanks at a time. WoTLK tank was loads of fun. I tanked all TBC too but not as hardcore as WoTLK. This, essentially, is looking like it's going back to WoTLK era tanking. Which, considering so many people quit post LK and are coming back, I'd assume it was a good idea to go back to something they're familiar with.

[@haydez6938]

That's not what he's complaining about. At least I don't see him complaining about easy being too easy nor does he find the "faceroll" classes interesting. I mean most of the bad things about tanks in Legion are about their kit. They no longer have any way to be significantly better than your average tank. The skill ceiling is so low, there's no advanced mechanics (like breath of sindragosa) on any of the tanks. And in Legion they need to rely on the healers so much that it gets very very troublesome when you happen to have a below average healer. Because now you actually need a lot of external healing as a tank especially in a raid environment where it actually matters.

[@aussierule]

I agree with you. He wants tanks to feel indestructible but playing the game like that is just not fun and sets a meta for elitist behavior like Preachers.

[@robs9980]

Chris A Well, it's kind of fun. I rather enjoy getting all the adds and mowing them down with aoe. That's why I loved leveling as prot pally. But yeah... in raids or whatnot, it loses it's fun factor quickly. You want to be known as the good tank. The one that doesn't let random adds get away or can position properly for max dps. Shit, most the tank I've ran into nowadays don't even face the back of the boss towards DPS. That's like tank 101. However, most the DPS don't know to get behind the boss either.

[@kel12123]

But that's the point and the reason why WoD is garbage. You have to depend on your group it isn't a single player game. What ever happen with needing to have good healers, good dps, and good tanks? This is why the random queue system is broken.

[@slurms777]

Thanks Preach, depressing as fuck, but thanks.

[@bdel80]

: -) Guardian Druid on top. Looks like I will have fun in Legion.

[@wowman6696]

grizzly and gruesome muahahaha

[@bdel80]

I don't need transmog. I like my big bear butt. Claws and mouth for attacking. Grrrr

[@TheAsylumchild]

It feels like what they did in Cata. The changes when you reached 80 were so drastic that it was like you suddenly forgot how to play and was very frustrating.

[@chameleonedm]

What's worrying to me is that if this is how tanking "works" atm, all the encounters will be designed around this method. Therefore, if they want to change how tanking works at this point they seemingly would have to change every encounter that has been designed thus far. This leads me to believe that they'd be tentative to change tanking at this point. I hope I'm wrong, someone correct me if I am.

[@robertct06]

can you imagine a tank getting mad because a healer keeps healing 😂😂😂

[@vdhdhdffsg9315]

I just signed up for Patreon just for Preach!

[@glasscowboy]

Any overall update on the tanking scene in Legion now that we're that much closer to launch?

[@Khorothis]

This reminds me a bit of how tanking was in BC's Magister's Terrace, where you had to have a CC class among your DPS to get past even the thrash mobs, let alone the bosses, and I think this is what Blizz is pushing towards (and the BC nostalgia dungeon event seems like a hint at this). If you think about it, this is a compromise between having meaningful aggro and not forcing people to get threat meters if they want to play so much as a dungeon. I remember when I was fear-leashing in BC (and occasionally banishing) I felt a rank above the "muh deeps" crowd who just rolled their faces on the keyboard to get the most damage out, which is admittedly valuable but I'd rather have 10-15% less dps and have something else to do than focusing on my rotation like a mantra and staying away from flashy things. So as a tank, sure, it sucks donkeyballs, and I absolutely agree with that because the control you had over your health bar was spread out among the others, which is suicidal in pugs. On the other hand, this will force the healers and especially the dps players to step up their game or fail at the game.

[@Khorothis]

KAREN DESU If you think about it, Preacher isn't whining because of the changes but because what it will cause. See, every time a game increases the minimum skill level for it to remain enjoyable, some people will drop out and proceed to bitch and whine in the forums, as well as into the ears of Preacher in search of justification. So in a sense, Preacher is already having a headache from the wailing he will have to listen to, and I feel sorry for him for that. He's doing a lot of work to educate and inform people, which is really all the help he can give to all those who need to get better at an already forgiving game.

[@OxMan20]

I agree. I played mainly in BC and early Wotlk then took a break for a few years, on coming back I was surprised that dungeons had become mass aoe fests. It used to be that the party leader would mark targets for kill order and cc, which I was pleased preach was doing in this video. I can understand where preach is coming from though as that style which it looks like they are moving back towards, while fun, isn't really as viable with random pugs. I would expect to see normal and heroics becoming more facerolls again as people get some gear but mythic and mythic+ requiring more cc and focused killing as the difficulty ramps up. This coming at the expense of tanks fun though does suck.

[@Nubsauce]

If tanking is how it was in BC, then hell yes. The real tanks will shine through the filth. Tanking isnt as easy any more. Now you have to be aware of your surroundings and make sure your OT (In raids) is ready to flick taunt if you get smacked really hard and need a sec to get topped off. Or make sure your Group members are CCing what they need to CC to prevent a wipe. This is how tanking should be.

[@anlaaranilde]

because errybody who plays world of warcraft is all under one unified hivemind

[@Nubsauce]

Ilysanth Amaranthine Well Duh! lol. He's one of those "Baddies".He probably just sits in BGs "Commanding" the team to do things while he hides all game.

[@kalibos]

Blizzard please listen to Preacher right here

[@airbornerecon11]

+kalibos this is such a lame video, how are you even agreeing to this? Maybe you should stay in WoD while the rest of us go out and actually have a challenging dungeon, nub!

[@kurokamiotaku]

+airbornerecon11 yup lets just all play classes that are incredibly dull to play.

[@quantumpoptart]

+airbornerecon11 Did you even listen to the video? Re-watch starting at :39. GAMEPLAY. GAMEPLAY. Having the dungeons be CHALLENGING is completely different than having an INTERESTING play-style. God damn.

[@kalibos]

***** k

[@Lost_Hwasal]

where does brewmaster fit in?

[@prinstyrio0]

I'd love to hear a more up-to-date tanking video from you Preach! As I understand, the specs has changed a fair bit since alpha and been improved.

[@Naglol]

remember when Felblade was baseline for Demon Hunters? I do.

[@Pr0xRESOLUTE]

hope youll feel better in the coming days preach

[@StriderShadow]

So tanks cannot just faceroll through a dungeon while the healer watches netflix? Good!

[@toaonua523]

Now that the 7.0 changes are live, I whole-heartedly agree with Preach. I was hopeful, and wanted tanking to be good. My main has always been a tank, because I don't want to rely on others, so I carry the group if I need to. Now, despite how good Legion looks, I'm not looking forward to it in the slightest. :/ We're nothing more than shitty dps specs now. Say goodbye to all of the epic Blood DK solo videos.

[@Powerhugful]

Wrath tanking was the best imo

[@NeautralGround]

WotLK tanking, with the exception of blood DKs, was all about your gear. Most tanks had very low impact active mitigation outside of things like shield wall. So I would definitely have to disagree. Active Mitigation was one of the things that the last three expansions have done right.

[@TheOriginalHedukka]

Best thing about Wrath tanking was that you could pull all the fucking mobs and still live trough it. At same time it was exciting but boring. To me tanking was best at start of Cataclysm.

[@ValentineSuicide1]

I agree with you and wrath tanking, pally was the most entertaining of all.

[@legenisgaming]

@Preachgaming are you going to do a follow up to tanking? I really wana main tank for competitive 5 mans in the xpac. Loved tanking 5 mans for many years and sad to hear this about tanks...

[@salmeterol1]

Literally everything u said in the first 15 minutes is about number tuning. "my mitigations dont matter" buff it and it will. Atleast thats what i got out of what you said.

[@numbersdontlie5954]

what about using cc, is that still a thing? it used to be required for older content before it was turned in to tank trains railing through dungeons eating the dps alive on the charts.

[@MyViolador]

so , dungeons are actually hard now?

[@SalvLav]

+MyViolador Umm what?

[@Landes1024rs]

+MyViolador They might be nerfed pending release.

[@quantumpoptart]

+MyViolador Apparently most people here, like MyViolador, think fun == difficulty. Not to mention that having five lame 30% flat reduction buttons means skill

[@itztehendd]

Are we having Healer and DPS vids too preach?

[@shrewvianno9565]

HAVE YOU GIVEN ALL THIS FEEDBACK TO BLIZZ ABOUT TANKING?

[@TheGoatPC]

It's a shame that blizzard feels the need to completely change up tanking this way, to the point that classes are boring to play. Honestly right now in WoD, I very much agree with preach that tanking is fun and engaging. For that reason is why I have every tank class. Really hope blizz makes the needed changes. Scary thinking that I might have to for the first time ever have to play a **shutters** non-tank spec to have fun.

[@SK4R1337]

Rip Pala.. guess it's time to reroll before turning into a mindles baboon hammering the keyboard for no reason at all

[@michaelgreer6432]

+WoWznaggels Yep. I hopped on for a few hours after being away for months now and can still do the rotation. It's pretty bad, now it looks worse.

[@theVoidyTv]

+Wilhelm Peters paladin was since vanilla by design a "simple class to play" you can look for blue posts stating this.

[@SK4R1337]

I'm not saying that it's hard in WoD, just that your other buttons apart from SotR do something meaningful, not like in this iteration of legion

[@theVoidyTv]

+Wilhelm Peters not realy, other buttons generate holy power and you push them when they shine in WoD there is no other interaction. If Shield procs you press it. What is now in Legion is simply WoD Paladin minus Holy Power and SotR on a CD thats it. This class had least amount of changes. Also Preacher is a noobcake for not saying a simple thing "this is not final" and even if this is final it is just a WoD Paladin. Paladin has and had 1 fucking active mitigation skill in SotR because Word of Glory/Flame is a joke. So nothing changes here. Lets be realistic and not "legion is bad because reasons" fucking realistic. If we are realistic: Monk changed shitloads, Warrior changed a lot, Druid changed shitloads and DK changed shitloads. One would assume a) Paladin is not changing a lot because it is good, simply good. About active mitigation. Paladin has flat %DMG reduction, this class can be simple to play but this is the best fucking and most reliable AM in the whole game. You take less damage, nothing can beat this why ? Mechanics that make you dodge hits like "dodge" or makes you exposed to spikey damage like parry are shit. Because you have % chance it will happen and your healer doesn't know it will happen so every dodge is just overhealing on the healers. Yes nothing more or less. So Flat % reduction and you taking hits but in smaller chunks is actually much better for healers and their mana than stuff like 100% or 60% dodge. What about absorbs ? Well aborbs are also good but this is gear dependant / mechanic dependant either tanks absorb all damage and healers do nothing either they absorb nothing. So it is a mechanic that is hard to balance to make good. %DMG reduction is the best way to handle AM in game and if you want to have progression raids happen smooth probably you will have to have a Paladin or Two as tanks.

[@pBIggZz]

Hey preach, have things gotten better in the last two months? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

[@NossCalavera1670]

Spot on, I hope Bliz watches this vid....

[@tregrenos8615]

Is the new bear model bigger than the old one or does the video just make it seem that way? Not really seen it in action for legion.

[@ssj4nappa753]

They are bringing back violet hold? Please god no.

[@xxJOHNLIKESPIExx]

+SSJ4Nappa lol it's totally different... like the bosses look slightly different...

[@Jandiss]

+xxJOHNLIKESPIExx and the portals are green now and unleash demons not draconians

[@xxJOHNLIKESPIExx]

shit man, I didn't think of that.

[@ssj4nappa753]

reskinned old content majority people didnt like? fuck yea im in. Kappa

[@Perid0tStar]

+SSJ4Nappa Eh, its only one dungeon and all the other ones are new. They kinda Had to, since the original was in Dalaran and they were gonna use the city again.

[@RarestDragon]

While I'm trying to keep an open mind and not cast my final judgement until I try it for myself, this news makes me dread playing one of my favorite classes: Protection Warrior. Does the "rage generated by damage taken" thing mean that disc priests can no longer cast Power Word: Shield on the warrior?

[@Nickm47]

Blizz is making the game more suitable for 12 and 13 year olds

[@human260]

+Nico strawburry Well, looking at the average comment on the forums or any legion video here on youtube, that seems about right.

[@TargetSniper365]

+human260 hahaha well put. So many complainers lol

[@Nickm47]

TargetSniper365 lol its true tho they want to make the game easier they said it themselves and its sad lol. but w/e

[@shadowborn6722]

Thank-you. I really appreciate you going and compiling all of the information on tanks currently in the alpha and shows us where they stand and how they are playing so far. The biggest thing that is preventing me from looking forward to and buying Legion is the current state of the tanks from what i have read on the alpha forums and from what i have seen here. Hope Blizzard fixes the current problems they have made for the tanks on the alpha.

[@wolgorewolf6509]

Is it just me, or are these videos always negative?

[@Haphazardization]

Gets more views when you make controversy.

[@lolzomgz1337]

You not seen him gush sticky glory over the shadow preist / fury warrior?

[@wolgorewolf6509]

I have seen it. Don't worry. But only two specs out of how many?

[@lolzomgz1337]

Wolgore Wolf He likes the bear, the ret paladin, the affliction / demonology warlock etc.

[@wolgorewolf6509]

I see.

[@Relbl]

So you would be reluctant tanking randoms as a Prot Warrior or with any of these? Is Prot pally just boring to play or is it weak as well? Sounded like it was very powerful, just a bit of a yawn. When you were on Blood it looked like you were really living on the edge (very low HP) very often; is that part of the spec or was that particular fight just hard/healer weak? I was trying to decide between Frost DK and prot pally to main... I'm discouraged about pally now but if it's just a matter of being boring I might reconsider - I'll trade boredom for survivability if group content is as hard as you make it out to be

[@stakz3674]

This sounds amazing to me. Sounds like tanks will rely on their team as a whole. Everybody will. Rough start at first? Sure. Better than alot those tanks out there not needing anybody, creates a terrible mindset in my opinion.

[@SalvLav]

no

[@Perid0tStar]

+STAKz X I'm weirdly looking forward to being in the first wave of people doing dungeons at launch--in the trenches again!

[@quantumpoptart]

+STAKz X It means that no matter how skilled you are, you will suck. Does that make sense? Do you like feeling you make no progress and let others have that satisfaction?

[@stakz3674]

I understand that, it's more of a team based skill now. It's not about me me me me. I see alot less pugging going on here. You Will Want To Make Lasting Friends So You Can Play together. Sounds like a really good plan to bring back "multiplayer". It's not about individual skill, it's about team skill. Something that was lost years ago in this game. Remember when: if the tank beat dps, that meant dps was doing awful. I'm not saying go back to where the tank had no power at all, but it's gotten ridiculous over the years. There is balance.

[@Perid0tStar]

STAKz X I absolutely remember that, Stak. It may sound impossible to newer players, but there was a time when leveling as a prot pally took a really long time. I leveled one as an alt in BC, and it kind of felt like I was a turtle with how I was taking little damage but those mobs took forever to die xD

[@alexridley4419]

I understand the concern of how mobs hitting so hard challenge high mitigation (good) tanks, but flatten inexperienced tanks. That isn't a really bad thing, though? Part of learning how to be a good tank should be learning how to use your mitigation. It sounds like with this squash that's still the goal, but it's a much more boring version of it.

[@Eeiv.]

Where's Iggle Piggle?

[@Fhonax]

+Timmy Agerberg In your wardrobe...

[@Eeiv.]

Please no D:

[@TheTarne]

he said that bulwark will return soon when putting him there

[@Fhonax]

+Timmy Agerberg Hannable Peggle is coming for you! Run bro!

[@Perid0tStar]

+Timmy Agerberg He's in the background in the beginning of the Mage Legacy video, and then hilariously missing replaced with the shield at the end of it xD So homeboy has been on the road for awhile now lol

[@michaelm2061]

preacher any new thoughts on tanking as beta has worn on?

[@HoHoTacoBaco]

The game is to easy - people vine. The game is too hard - people vine. I say: hard is better than easy.

[@Zag22]

There is a very vocal minority that complain when it's too hard. Blizzard have begun to cater for them. They want things like less buttons, raid finder, less social aspects, more solo content. The vast majority doesn't mind a challenge, they want the old school difficulties back. For some reason blizzard has begun to ignore these pleas for wows return to glory in place of these newer players who "don't have time to learn" or "I want epics but don't want to work for it". It's sad :(

[@Moaningbird]

+Zag I think you guys didnt get it about WOW. Blizzard created easy contents to drag more people. No one ever asked for easy contents.

[@heartfang21]

there are still difficult aspects to the game. nothing like the vanilla version, where it took 6 months to a year to meet requirements for a raid - which i think they should revisit in some form - but again, there are still challenging aspects. that they've added easier elements should be none of your concern as a person that games for the hard content.

[@CrystalblueMage]

So.. now tanks are where Healers have been for a long time. If others do well, you have nothing to do, and if others don't do well there is nothing you CAN do. I feel your pain!!

[@robs9980]

What do you think of prot pally NOW with basically your "SoR" as your "resource"? Holy Power was always a terrible gimmick. It came out a terrible gimmick. With the way things are working now with how the skills have to work together, it's a much better dynamic than Holy Power. Consecration mechanic and judgement mechanic (2 key skills since release) are now required to enhance your TPS and Mitigation. Sounds like a much much better mechanic than Holy Crapower. We aren't rogues or DKs, we're Paladins. If I wanted someone with that terrible mechanic (just like if I wanted a pet), I would have rolled a char with the mechanic I wanted. And you're not just pushing for the sake of pushing. Your hammer or righteousness (your spam) reduces enemy attacks by 15%. Your AS is TPS until you get your artifact up and then it's mitigation and TPS. Your SoR is your resource as it provides 44% mitigation for a few seconds with like a 30 sec recharge. You have 3 charges of it and Seraphim can possibly use two of those charges. Leaving you figuring out how to keep active mitigation up. Your consecration increases many of your skills. I'm assuming what you did was just pick up the weakest talents (i.e. the talents that require least effort to work) and then claim pallies suck. And they might, but they are definitely not boring and thank god they got rid of that old mechanic. And now I got to your review of the DK and am even more confused. It's more simplistic than the Paladin and the crazy dynamics you have to pay attention to with a Paladin, yet you're giving it props. Did you really like Holy Power that much and are just really upset it's gone or what? Finally got all the way to the end as well. You think the DKs and Druid are cool because their abilities reflect damage back. Pallies have the same EXACT shit, but its called Holy magic. And you literally pressed 3 buttons on ur drood.

[@mordicus9817]

I would agree with you there, Damage and threat generation ARE important with tanks. The extra abilities that do not serve a mitigation purpose are there for just that, extra dps and threat generation which without would be incredibly horrid. Having spells that are useless in terms of mitigation allows you to continue damage while choosing to use mitigation cooldowns whenever you want rather than having to use them to keep threat and damage up.

[@robs9980]

Mordicus To add to that. I think the new SoR change is even more reactive. Because you have to think about when to use them. I do and don't like the old Holy Shield days. You used to have to hit it on every CD. I have a vid where I missed once and someone railed me in the comments. I think it's cool that we should have to keep some mitigation skill up at all times and then use others for extra mitigation. Making Holy Shield a talent just made the class less skill-based. However, for me, it helps with one thing. I live in Japan and on 180+ms, not having to ALWAYS push a button on CD is great. Usually, I have my muscle memory with ping, but still, the game doesn't always register right away and that can cause problems.

[@MakisOfEquinox]

I've been playing Prot paladin for around ten years, and many of my prot pally friends don't care for the new system in any way. I've been playing with the new class updates and I find this to be a horrible replacement for holy power. Holy power was quite rewarding IMHO especially when I was able to chain SotR. What exactly was so terribly gimmicky about it?

[@mordicus9817]

+Makis Equinox I have been playing pally as well since vanilla. I never liked the addition holy power because it gave you a set rotation and boring play since you would have the mind set solely focused on gaining holy power fast simply to use defensives if you couldn't gain it fast enough your healers were punished. I like the idea of using the CDs at decisive times rather than having to gain holy power in "oh shit moments" before even being able to use a defensive. Basically, it was fun at first but quickly became a hassle.

[@MakisOfEquinox]

Mordicus I can understand that, but I don't know if that might have been a diffence in play style or talent selection. I always ran divine purpose which let me have a lot of control over my holy power. I would always chain together some word of glories and such in with my SotR not on just myself, but I would toss some heals out on someone I would see getting low and I saved other raiders a few times. The way it's setup now just seems to not allow for those awesome moments where you can do something awesome with enough focus and skill.

[@Broshnak]

Hey Preach. Love all the vids! Just wanted to ask if u feel this list/ranking is still representable as of right now or whether it has changed over the past 1½ month?

[@prometheushippopotimi3076]

where is hunter tenacity tanking?

[@iceee420]

just wondering about the paladin. from what I seen, is it like the wrath model where you just follow the 696 rotation and nothing else really matters?

[@tolks9575]

ok well that sucks i play a prot paly as a main

[@SnoreProtection]

+scprepper 50 having a 'main' in current year LUL

[@mordicus9817]

+Hazel Hawthorne what is that suppose to mean? A majority of wow players have a main.

[@Cyphae1996]

dafuq does this mean

[@tolks9575]

it means that prot paly's are gunna suc in legion as tanks as far as this test

[@mordicus9817]

scprepper 50 They won't suck, they are actually quite good, the argument is they are dull with the removal of holy power and similar abilities that essentially do the same thing.

[@MrCorthez]

Nice video! Good to see my Blood DK is in a good spot. Will there be a Legion Healer Comparison, and maybe a Damage Dealer comparison?

[@Karifax]

Dont look at "new players" ! "new players will not understand, bla bla bla" wtf man ! Noobs will learn someday. We need to see the difference between good and bad tanks, and the bigger it is the better. Learn how to tank or be sh*t, if tanking will be easy - it wont be interesting

[@TheZeagon]

+Karifax Game lacks tanks let alone good tanks as it is though. do see your point.

[@Marc98338]

+Karifax NO man! DUMB DOWN THE GAME! I CANT FINISH THIS DUNGEON BUT I DESERVE THE SAME GEAR!

[@Sekraiii]

Hey, wondering if you will do another video now that the pre-patch is out and Legion is soon upon us? Because there are some changes to warrior that makes it (slightly) more playable, namely the Vengeance talent (gives you some kind of rotation to Ignore pain and doing some dmg, still pretty shit compared to how fun it was in WoD and I'm saying this as a fellow mainer of prot warrior).

[@BowmanHawk]

Im glad they made it easier. Its a pain in the ass to find a tank, let alone a good one. Maybe more people will play tanks now.

[@habiaunacerveza]

i love how people that dont even know whats an active mitigation still comment shit. if tanks cant actively mitigate with their abilities, cant do any dmg and cant self heal enought then why even play a tank spec? Im a 13/13 mythic prot warrior and i liked the experience of being a crappy prot warrior at the start of WOD to a good tank. The learning curve is why i love playing games, and now in legion ANYONE can play as a "good tank" cause the desicion you take make no changes whats so ever. if this hit live i will lvl up to 110 on my warrior and then just play overwatch and skip this expansion.

[@theogreeff3466]

You make quite a few interesting points. The one thing that comes to mind for me is my recent experience with WoD. As a preamble I'll admit that I have been away from the game for a good long time (Last time I really played was in WotLK - with a brief stint towards the end of Cata). So I have missed a lot of the content and changes in between. I had got 100 and got some gear (Mostly LFR and some crafted stuff) when an old friend begged me to come tank a HFC normal alt run for them. I was very clear that I had nothing more than a basic knowledge of the encounters (not much more than don't stand in X) and not much WoD experience with my class - Prot Paladin. Long story made short we cleared the raid without too much fuss (a few wipes, but nothing serious). This was with me being an (within the context) inexperienced and probably undergeared tank. Honestly it didn't feel to me like I had accomplished anything. I had simply gone along for a few hours and collected some loot. The MT had done most of the work, probably a fair share of what I was supposed to do as well. I would like to compare this to my first Kara clear back in TBC. As a tank back then (and this applied to just about all the roles), I had to make sure that not only did I reach certain points in gearing, but that I had enough knowledge of each encounter as well as my class's abilities and limitations. I needed to know what I was capable of and how to deal with the various mechanics of the fights to even have a chance of clearing the raid. BUT... I wasn't alone in that. It wasn't a case of if I as the tank was ready the raid was a guaranteed success. Assuming the dps were doing what they were supposed to, the healers still had to be prepared in a similar way as well. The tank wasn't an island with the rest just a supporting cast. Basically, there was a large chance to fail if everyone wasn't on the ball, which I feel is missing from the current game's design. The point I'm trying to make is that I feel as if tanking lacks a sense of accomplishment (which is what I gather from your view on Legion as well). In older expansions (as in Vanilla to WotLK - my personal experience, I can't say for other expansions) you would feel like you did something well when you managed to keep aggro on the extra mobs or managed to survive (with the help of your healer) a burst of damage. Now it all feels too scripted and predictable. This, I think, has to do with both class and encounter design. The homogenisation of tank classes, while necessary to some extent, has also made it rather unrewarding to actually play a certain class. I believe there are better ways to approach this. PS: I'm not saying Blizzard should return to the TBC model or somesuch, but having some clear definition in what different tanks can do would, to my mind, bring some excitement and challenge back to tanking. The TBC model was flawed, but it had some great features (think of tanking Maiden as a paladin, or Leotheras as a warrior, for instance). These features added a level of depth and challenge that surpassed the basic job of keeping the boss pissed off and having enough defensive stats to survive a few hits.

[@adammolloy8220]

Is that an add on, showing you your health / resources / debuffs? If so, what is it called? It looks nice and light.

[@RedScypsi]

Prot pally used to be so good in wrath only to become the most boring thing to play.

[@Clouds23x]

I'm confused, are you in some high ilvl gear better than what you get from the dungeon itself? Are your artifact power high or low? can't really judge your opinion not knowing the basics? ( maybe i missed them, long video ). If you are on low Artifact Power and Gear and dungeons are hard because of that I don't mind that at all. We seen what happens when you gear up in WoD and you can solo HC dungeons as a tank, sorry I dont want such system where I can faceroll everything. Skills you use in WoD in dungeons matter even less now I bet. All they have to do is maybe buff few skills and that's it when it comes to numbers. The important part is how the class feels itself, rotation etc. Prot paladins have it really bad it seems :P but tbh I played all tanks in WoD and Paladin in WoD is by far worst and the least fun to play, so nothing changed there :P

[@SpcGrdnr]

do you think having mitigation give you more rage would fix the prot warrior? basically incentivising you to use mitigation at high damage points correctly?

[@Edward0TheGreat]

As a brand new player whose main right now is a Prot. Paladin, I appreciate you putting this video out. the class does feel somewhat mundane - here's hoping future changes can solve some of the issues!

[@Zasurein]

Thank you for the video. Do you think you could make an updated video about the best old world raid/dungeon solo classes too? I'm keeping my DK, but I would like to see how Paladin, DH, Hunter, and Druid have fared in Legion.

[@nickywojtasinski7187]

Will you be covering the brewmaster after you try out the changes before the expansion drops?Warrior and Monk tanking are currently my bread and butter to making WoW fun for me. I am currently leveling a druid before the expansion drops but i would really love to play brew in raids and be almost on par. I love to mid/max my classes i play and if brew doesn't compair and druid is hands down the better tanking spec then im most likely to play that.

[@ilyantresong]

As you have recently released the Healers so close to the release of legion, have you changed any conclusion's since making this detailed vid?

[@pokechu5]

When you mentioned the brewmasters asking their healers not to heal it reminded me of when I was playing my druid years ago and had to ask the priests not to bubble me so that i could get rage.

[@powerovercorrupt]

Really insightful video, specially for us who don't have much time to review all the alpha videos out there. Any chance you'll do this for the other roles?

[@Kircky]

what for an addon is this lifebar/ragebar below your char? or is it a legion feature? sry for bad english

[@FroggerbobT]

I've actually been pretty happy with the way prot pallies work in the alpha. Been a prot pally since vanilla, btw.

[@Falthad]

+FroggerbobT Bullsh*t there were no prot pallies in vanilla. Wear your dress, buff and heal like a good little paladin.

[@asyme9717]

One thing I was talking about with friends. What's up with Blizzards insistence on scrapping so much that worked and ripping the classes apart? It happens every expansion even if people are happy with their class. It's not nerfing or buffing - its just tearing things down and rebuilding them. It feels less like a desire to 'nail it' and sometimes more like 'hey! it's time to repaint because... we're bored!' As a player of these classes I don't really want new huge changes. I want stuff to do, more gear, more quest chains and the like. Maybe a few new talents would be nice but this? Not so much. The other problem is if something is broken (say... disc healing) it gets ignored for an entire expansion. There's no sense anymore of mini-patches or specific fixes to a class(es). Which... leads onto content appearing in vast thuds every year or so rather than shorter bursts of interest but hey.

[@robertgrant7946]

+A Syme What they say is about class fantasy is actually an excuse to dumb the game down to the lowest common denominator. You know so easy anyone can find a class and spec to play their speed and not do it wrong. I am just sorry tanks got ruined over this. I fear they got made so un-fun and idiot proof as a way to encourage more people to play them when it in fact has done the opposite. Not many current tanks want to keep being tanks.

[@asyme9717]

+Robert Grant Sounds possible. I suspect (maybe?) they're aiming for the moba/console market... almost to the point I could see them reducing attack buttons down to the point it would fit onto a controller. Not quite but it must have come up in their offices. Which is odd because you're talking about an old game which appeals not to new people but older ones who're fond of an old way of doing it.

[@GOTHIKK_ERXE]

+Robert Grant I guess they're using LFR/LFG stats as a reason to do this. The only reason that I'm going to continue tanking in this expansion is the fact that there is a new tanking class. My other three tanks are getting put on the shelf, for now. Of course, I'm not in the alpha, and probably not going to be in the beta, so who is to say whether I will enjoy the changes or not.

[@DmGray]

+A Syme I'd argue that Prot pally *needs* a redesign. They're just retarded. This expac has been hit or miss on my pally. Since I got 4set in HFC I basically press avenger's shield. Forever. A third of my damage is also from the Archi trinket. I do great damage when I get hit, but without the AS procs or trinket, the class doesn't really "work" (I got both items late too, because I always prefer gearing our dps, as a decidedly midtier raid guild we always lack raid damage before I'm the problem :P)

[@robertgrant7946]

Dm Gray They didn't need a full redesign. Just a numbers tweak and it isn't our fault the set bonuses played to our strengths. I mean seriously... Punish everyone who liked the play style because they couldn't keep the numbers in check. Sounds like bullshit to me. The truth is the Protection Paladin was rewarding when played right and punishing when played wrong. They wanted to reduce the difference. Now it almost doesn't even matter what you hit. What matters is if your healer is any good. I can keep going but I am beating a dead horse.

[@Sizebot]

As someone who hasn't played his favorite class (Bear Druid) since Wrath because it hasn't felt fun, the new skins(?) from the artifact weapons and that thrash animation has got me rock hard.

[@bitJester]

Does the DK feel weird without Blood Tap? I really liked having control over my rune generation and apparently that's now gone.