Let's Talk About Amy

[@Pariah6950]

Had another idea for how to power-up Amy in a totally different way. Turn her into a magical girl. What better way to turn a normal girl into an action character? And she's already got the interest in magic. Have her stumble upon some real magic in a story and get blessed with some magical-girl power that she needs to learn how to use over time. I think I like my initial ideas in this video more. But that could be a way to seriously power-up Amy to being on par with others, but with some decent justification.

[@Gnidel]

I imagined Super Amy as a magical girl transformation, where it's Super Piko Piko Hammer turning into magical armor. It's already established that 7 Chaos Emerald can do more than turning into Super Saiyan (Perfect Chaos, Perfect Gemerl), so magical girl could be possible too.

[@Zejgar]

Have you seen "Paladin Amy" from Sonic Dash? Would that outfit be good for a magical girl Amy?

[@devinsauls9137]

I think SEGA leaned into the direction of turning Amy Rose to a magical girl. How else would she pull up a giant hammer out of thin air and turned invisible in Sonic '06?

[@dantrunkyrusuke4772]

I could see her super form being a Cardcaptor Sakura ripoff instead of being a dbz one. She could use her hammer as a staff and her tarot cards as ammo

[@MasterMemo]

That would make sense why even in her original appearances she was even able to find and "keep up" with Sonic to some degree. It's magic. If they kept leaning into that, and "probability manipulation" could be why she can break Eggman robots. It's not strength, it's magic and precision.

[@TheDrunkLawyer]

Maybe I’m just an Adventure Stan, but I always thought Amy’s power of absolute compassion, able to turn bad guys good by just reasoning with them, to be one of the strongest abilities in the canon.

[@GrayStream-pl7ot]

Stan or fan ?

[@sebastianmartinez5963]

In fact, I imagined a story called The Phantom Ruby Menace where Infinite the Jackal is manipulated by Phantom Ruby, who has a life of his own and it is thanks to Amy that he manages to free himself from Phantom Ruby's influence by telling Infinite something like: “First you were a pawn of Eggman and now you are a pawn of a rock… You are more than a just pawn” and after that Infinite becomes temporarily an ally of Sonic. Yes, I know, it seems taken from Wattpad, but anyway.

[@radiokunio3738]

Yeah honestly, I kinda wish we got to see Amy with Gamma more, I really like that relationship.

[@LannyLeArtist]

Same.

[@mushroomdude123]

I never even thought of that. She was able to turn Shadow, Gamma, and Silver to the good side.

[@mushroomdude123]

I don’t think people realize the value in having a character that is not as physically powerful as the others. We know that when the big protagonist does some awesome feat, it’s cool but not that impressive. But if someone who was weaker pulled off that same feat, it could have a lot more emotional payoff. We care about what this weaker character did because they had to _struggle_ to accomplish it. If anything, Amy being weaker than everyone else would actually make her look more courageous, since she’s wiling to put herself in harms way for the good of others.

[@Inapeeina]

We all played as big the cat already

[@thefvguy5648]

Honestly, I really love the idea of Amy being incredibly strong. Not as a powerful as other characters obviously but the idea that her hammer always weighed tons and is a very capable fighter is a great idea for a character as you can feminine and also a bad-ass. So have to disagree with you here. The character that fits with the idea of a normal character might as well go to the role of Cream, Amy has evolved into more interesting roles than the love struck character for Sonic, very one-note with her Adventure development not high anywhere. The problem ultimately IMO isn’t that Amy now is a weaker character writing wise. We just didn’t see the growth. Canonically she has grown and matured, but we didn’t see it.

[@greenstarforce001]

​@@thefvguy5648 I agree, Cream is a way, WAY better candidate for the "normal civilian" role And yeah, I too wish they'd make her as energetic as she used to be

[@crimsonzone8984]

​@@thefvguy5648🤡 so you like strong masculine women in Hollywood. Make them all about girl power powering through with might. Yeah everyone loves that girl group team up in avengers endgame. Yeah! Everyone loves captain marvel! Everyone loves iron heart! Everyone loves pretty any action girl solving problems with brute strength! Yes the girl that beat scarlet witch? I dunno. I don't know any more of those ladies b'cuz 🤪 I'm one of those people that thing everyone especially girls have their way of being strong even if not physically or any of that real way bs. 😲what's that? Make cream the rabbit get into the strong woman bandwagon (even though slice of life writing fits her better)? 🥴gee we sure love action to be in every female character, don't we? I also thought rouge would fit well with the strong action woman trope, yet we don't get enough of that. 😒 real smart to think Amy is best suited to be that kind of character without considering the vision that her creators had for her.

[@thefvguy5648]

@@crimsonzone8984 wat?

[@lordpeeps1]

I would love if you turned this into a series. “Let’s talk about X sonic character” id be interested to hear your thoughts on characters like silver and blaze and just the cast in general

[@heftyrumble]

Yes. That sounds great!!!

[@kilometersperminute4113]

He explained quite a bit in his 06/rivals and rush/rush adventure story videos.

[@seematahir5970]

@@kilometersperminute4113 Really? Maybe I'm not remembering right but I think what he said amounted to "Blaze is a great character and Silver is not"

[@LannyLeArtist]

@@seematahir5970 Lol

[@amandaslough125]

@@seematahir5970 That's kind of funny, since even though Blaze is my favorite character in the franchise, I'd say most (long term cast) characters are better written. She just got out of being flanderized later on.

[@mgk2008012]

Eh, I don't really mind that Amy is a capable fighter now. It makes sense for her to go that route after her story in SA1. I don't think it would be as jarring to people if they had spent time to focus on her training to become faster and stronger like the rest of the cast. It should have been part of her character development. Instead it felt like an abrupt, random change with little thought behind it. She can still represent love and compassion while being able to fight and keep up with the boys. I just don't think it was handled well by the game writers. I think the comics actually did it much better. I really liked seeing Amy train with other characters and become stronger over time. I think Amy would've benefited from having a slightly older, more experience character serve as her "mentor" (similar to what Tails has with Sonic), at least for a short time.

[@trevinodude]

I always thought that maybe Tails had modified the hammer after she became integrated into the Sonic Team to help push her to their level, hence why her hammer swings tend to be relative to Knuckles’ punches. With the mods and some training, I could see Amy becoming something of a power character… not sure how Sega can justify her status as a speed character in Heroes though. That always seemed a bit strange to me.

[@amandaslough125]

@@trevinodude She is able to somehow keep up with Sonic. Yes, he slows down to humor her some, but she very much is chasing the fastest creature alive. She cant be that slow with the effort she does to do that. Even Tails uses his tails to help him keep up.

[@trevinodude]

@@amandaslough125 True. Makes me wonder who is supposed to be faster between her and Tails.

[@Marc-rw3dd]

@@amandaslough125To be fair, to be constantly chasing sonic all the time, I would assume she has to be a little fast.

[@Marc-rw3dd]

I just realized I basically said the same thing you did

[@XGame80]

I think Heroes’ Amy was so strong because she had her friends, Cream and Big. The entire point of Heroes is the power of teamwork, and Team Rose has 3 of the weakest Sonic characters at that point, but together they were strong enough to beat Eggman robots, but still the easy mode of the game.

[@Zejgar]

I *really* love how your idea for how Amy would destroy enemies (by knocking them back into walls) is *exactly* what she does in SA1 to defeat Zero.

[@Farkonso]

I think in the case of Frontiers, it's a bit more reasonable for Sonic to be nice to Amy while she's in danger. Like the saying "you never know how good it was until it's gone".

[@justinterry7853]

Yeah, exactly, I mean, usually Sonic can be one to blow off Amy in general, and with how Amy was locked up in Frontiers, Sonic asked many questions about her well-being, more than he ever did I think.

[@trevinodude]

I believe Ian Flynn has made IDW comics canon, and the comics make it a point that Amy has (as a person) grown up from her strange stalker phase considerably, finally allowing Sonic to be more comfortable around her. Although I do wish we had a story where Sonic first starts noticing her new found maturity. It does kind of happen out of nowhere, and since Frontiers’ Egg Memos states that it has been quite some time since Eggman has seen Amy, I’m sure Sega wants to use that time gap to justify the change in Sonic and Amy’s dynamic in Frontiers for the non comic readers.

[@HonerableG]

This should be it’s own comment

[@bakedbeans5494]

@@trevinodude IDW is not canon and imagine thinking you've made a valid point but proceeding to call Amy a "stalker".

[@hamstersandwich9917]

@@bakedbeans5494 Ian flynn confirmed that as long as it doesn't contradict the main games, IDW is canon

[@itsmyturnnow9343]

Personally I prefer the angle of Amy becoming stronger and faster over time through training and adventuring in order to keep up. Though I do agree it would have been better had she been developed more coherently. I also think it's too late to go back to making her the "weak" one; a lot of fans would object to that. But perhaps if Classic Sonic is maintained as its own brand we could have both versions of Amy: 1. Classic Amy would be the "normal girl" who can't do the things the others can do so relies on using tools and putting in a great deal of effort to accomplish the things that would be easy for the others. 2. Modern Amy would be the "strong girl" who started out the same way as Classic but has grown into a character who can easily keep up with the others and participate in the same adventures on par with them. I don't think this necessarily undermines her early stories; she was still "weak" at the time and still gave it her all anyways, and had she not done so and simply avoided adventure and danger she wouldn't be where she is now. Perhaps with Modern Amy they could adjust her strengths as well as their emphasis, make her strong and fast, but not quite as strong as Knuckles or as fast as Sonic, but instead relying on her tools (hammer), on skill/technique, and on versatility to be on par with the others. Then she can fully participate in the action without feeling like a "lesser" character and at the same time not being overpowered which would undermine the other characters (e.g., being as strong as Knuckles would undermine Knuckles). And she should also still be able to play the role of "the heart" when called for; turning an enemy into a friend is much more valuable than merely eliminating that enemy, and avoiding a nasty fight is a bonus. Of course, if they make Amy versatile like that they'd need to be careful to not turn her into a Mary Sue who is the solution to every problem. Or, yes, they could even just fully lean into the magical girl idea, make that the source of her power and suddenly she's more unique than just being another bruiser. Much like other characters with unique powers, such as Shadow (Chaos Control and related powers), Silver (psychokinesis), Blaze (pyrokinesis), or Espio (invisibility/ninja powers). I would probably keep the hammer though (but emphasize it being magical, at least to an extent); would be interesting to have her be a character who uses a mix of magical powers and physical fighting. I think another issue is that they haven't really done anything really interesting with the modern "strong Amy" in my opinion, besides maybe some moments here and there in the comics. Either she's just "one of the team" who fights alongside them but doesn't really play a unique part, or she's sidelined. Give her some starring roles where her part is unique and not just her being part of the crew or volunteering for some mission just to be another "soldier". And make her playable so we can actually explore her skillset in more depth and interactively rather than just watching her fight. That's what I feel she's been sorely lacking for a long time.

[@antrox2346]

I prefer the magical girl idea, because there are many bruisers characters. Also it would expand her character and would be a good complement to her. I don't think Amy being very strong is bad, but She feels like Knuckles and others bruisers characters.

[@greenstarforce001]

I'm so, SO on board with the idea of making Amy a mage / magical girl That way she'll be a foil to Tails in the same way that Knuckles is to Sonic (Sonic and Knuckles represent Speed/Power, Tails and Amy represent Technology/Magic

[@DARS_04]

Give Amy "Shadow-esque rollerblades", of course you'd need to change their design so that its something that Amy would actually wear. That sounds kinda cool NGL.

[@devinsauls9137]

They're Air Shoes

[@DARS_04]

@@devinsauls9137 Air Shoes?

[@devinsauls9137]

@@DARS_04 That's what Shadow says in Sonic Prime

[@elijahyancey3393]

@@devinsauls9137 he was correcting you

[@SaturnCake]

...They're air shoes.

[@trevsoda]

Amy on skates... 🥺 I love this idea, it aligns her a lil bit more with Shadow, honestly I just think it's cute

[@Chillipeffer]

They're air shoes.

[@trevsoda]

@@Chillipeffer go away

[@charmyzard]

Not gonna lie, Amy using her heart and soul power to band the animals she saves into an anti-Eggman militia force sounds like a pretty fire story.

[@iinfernox]

you just instantly created a better Forces storyline lmao

[@TronicSSJ07]

@@iinfernoxWhat if she isn’t strong enough to lead on her own? She’ll enlists the help of a more capable leader like Sally and when that leader is incapacitated, Amy will step up and pull through.

[@dragondelsur5156]

​@@TronicSSJ07 That's like saying Amy can never win because she sucks at everything she does.

[@TronicSSJ07]

@@dragondelsur5156 Amy’s pretty capable and she can win in certain aspects, but leading an entire army is not in her ballpark? She even says this in the IDW comics.

[@thesoniczone11]

Amy was originally created to be Sonics Minnie Mouse, she was made to chase after him. In the long run, that very facet of her character by concept demands that she must be able to keep up with Sonic. You CAN'T hang out with Sonic if you can't keep up, that is why Tails can fly in the first place. Being "The Heart" who represents love and compassion does not require she be powerless. Amy's pure heart is the source of her strength, and she's always had a mystical element to her abilities since Sonic CD. The Hammer in Fighters was described as magical. She's like a magical girl. Even Sonic Adventure 2 Battle's 2 player mode leans into that for her abilities compared to Sonic, Shadow and Metal. Amy was not specifically intended to be a normal powerless girl, she was made to chase after the fastest thing alive. She is his designated love interests and, just like Tails as the sidekick, is supposed to always be following Sonic wherever he goes. If she's not fast enough to keep up, then she wouldn't able to be as important as she is supposed to be. You can't have Amy be Lois Lane to Sonic's Superman because that does not fit Sonic.

[@rynobehnke8289]

A very good reason why keeping Amy weak isn't a good think considering the bases of her character.

[@venture7486]

Amy never "catches up" to Sonic. She just runs into him at the most inopportune times, often when he's just chilling and not even on the move. "If she's not fast enough to keep up, then she wouldn't able to be as important as she is supposed to be." Have you even watched the video? There are multiple ways for Amy to be important without being as fast as Sonic or as strong as Knuckles.

[@thesoniczone11]

@@venture7486 Sonic is a world traveling nomad who lives a life of adventure. He is a free spirit and does not slow down for anyone. If you want to be part of Sonics adventures, you need to keep up with him. This is what Tails had to prove when he first met Sonic in Sonic 2. Tails had the speed, and thus they would eventually become best friends. Amy's motivation, as shown in Sonic Adventure, is to be part of Sonics adventures to escape her boring life. Amy wants to follow Sonic, so she chases Sonic. Her story in SA1 gave her the mindset to earn Sonics respect which further pushes her to chase him like she does in SA2 and Sonic Heroes. In both games she is chasing after Sonic and desperately trying to do anything she can to impress him or earnhis respect and prove that she can fend for herself and be part of his life without slowing him down. In order for her to achieve this at all, in order for Amy to even be the love interest chasing after the nomadic speedster, she herself must have the speed to keep up. The ending of Team Sonic and the last story in Heroes highlight this very fact of her character, by showing her chasing after Sonic while he runs off. That is what their dynamic was always meant to be from her conception as his "Minnie Mouse". To fulfill that role that she was made for in the first place, she needs to have the ability to keep up with the fastest thing alive just like Tails does.

[@essycogany2738]

@@thesoniczone11 I understand with almost all parts of these arguments and character analysis, but I feel like you summoned up everything in the best way possible. 💖

[@venture7486]

@@thesoniczone11 "which further pushes her to chase him like she does in SA2 and Sonic Heroes." Amy never "chased" Sonic in SA2. Sonic was already imprisoned on Prison Island, so it's not like she kept up with him whilst he was on the move. After that, she mostly hitched a ride on Tails' plane. I don't count Heroes at all, because as Pariah said, she suddenly turns into this competent speedster out of nowhere despite every game before it showing otherwise. She got kidnapped repeatedly in Sonic CD, needed a car to keep up with the gang in Sonic R, had trouble fending off a SINGLE Eggman robot throughout the entirety of her campaign in Sonic Adventure, and was mostly treated as an incompetent comic relief in SA2. For her to suddenly 180 in competency out of nowhere is just poor character writing. "In order for her to achieve this at all, in order for Amy to even be the love interest chasing after the nomadic speedster, she herself must have the speed to keep up." Which she never achieves organically. She just gains the "speed" to keep up with him out of the blue with no prior justification. Stop being a fanboy.

[@YouluC]

That thing about not being able to hang out with Sonic unless you can keep up makes perfect sense for a character that has a lifestyle like Sonic's. Otherwise he's stuck with babysitting a character which also puts him at risk. Not to mention how he wouldn't enjoy slowing down either. It's been explained that Amy trains herself (like in Battle) to be able to keep up with Sonic and defend herself. The thing about her hammer being a weapon of choice, you're kind of making it seem like she'd be strong without it? That scene with Knuckles is meant to look cool, breaking apart rocks is by no means a special feat only she can do. It makes sense for her modern self to be used to using her hammer after all this time and to show expertise in using it and her classic self seems to be a bit weaker. In the comics, Classic Amy can hit hard but isn't strong enough to tango with Bark unlike Knuckles or Mighty.

[@insertunoroginalnamehere6189]

What you said was true, especially about sonic I don't think sonic is a jerk at all but He's supposed to be as free as the wind Doing what he wants and not letting rules or principles or anything like that drag him down One of the reasons he befriended tails in the first place is because he was impressed by how tails flying could actually keep up with him Of course sonic could still treat you like a friend and help you, even if you're physically weaker (like in that one Sonic X episode where he chose to hang out with a girl in a wheelchair) But he more cares about the big picture especially it's an emergency So, while i do still think you could befriend sonic even if you're not as strong or fast, you're probably not gonna be close to him as tails or knuckles are So if Amy really wants to hang around sonic as often as tails and knuckles and be one of his closest friends She would still probably have to be able to keep up and be able to help

[@justinterry7853]

I don't think Sonic would purposefully have that mindset

[@dragondelsur5156]

@@justinterry7853 Not purposefully but subconsiously, when he goes at his own pace he often forgets who he leaves behind, no one can catch wind in a bottle and that's what Tails and Amy understood.

[@CringusMcDingus]

W paragraph right here

[@daspir3154]

A way to justify Amy's hammer being able to launch her in different directions could be to say that the yellow padding on the surface of the hammer is a sort of modified yellow spring instead of Amy just hitting the ground with an absurd amount of force.

[@eepyJay]

That's how i always thought it was cos there's those toy gavels where the part you hit with is like an accordion/spring, is a really good idea

[@Laekith]

It is literally a springy hammer isn't it?

[@Preteristboy]

The way she can catapult herself in SA1 and Advance 1 lends credence to this idea.

[@TechBlade9000]

@@Laekith No it's a toy, Piko Piko are japanese toys That's why it makes plastic sounds in Fighters and sa1 (until you upgrade to metal hammer)

[@Laekith]

@@TechBlade9000 yeah it's one of those plastic springy hammers, I didn't know that's what they were called though, I just thought piko piko was the squeaky sound

[@souptaels]

Maybe that's why Cream doesn't appear in later games anymore. She's just not as capable as Sonic, if we're going down that mindset, so she can't hang out with Sonic anymore. Cream started off basically like Amy: weak and needs a weapon to be somewhat capable, that weapon being Cheese, but then Heroes comes along and makes her just a capable as Tails, but not capable enough to reuse her for modern games. A sad fate for a potential main character.

[@Pariah6950]

Cream is a bizarre case because her character seems to imply she is also weak. But in Advance 2 and Heroes, the games she was made for and was introduced in, she was shown as fast and stuff. I don't even know what she's supposed to be.

[@slashy1622]

@@Pariah6950 I believe she is supposed to be weak, look at Sonic X and IDW.

[@rynobehnke8289]

Its actually a common misreading of Cream that she is weak mostly reinforced by Sonic Rush which horribly mis-charaterized her. Directly in her introduction game was she shown to have gone through the whole adventure and even beating Sonic to reaching Vanilla in the end. In Heroes other than being afraid sometimes (which even than she by the time Final Fortress happens starts to see as a weakness in herself she needs to overcome) is never shown as weak, In Sonic battle are she and Cheese certainly not weak just reluctant to fight up until Emerl mirrors to her what the results of not fighting back are. In Emerls story does she even want to train with you as you wants to be strong enough to protect her friends and family. Even in Sonic X weren't they actually weak (sure weaker than Sonic, Knuckles, Rouge and Shadow but so were Tails and Amy too) just again unwilling to fight but she and Cheese got the win on Emerl in the Sonic battle adaptation and the few times she and Cheese go into action during season 3 do they mange to harm the Metarex just as much as any other character. The Comics for what ever reason however always portray her as weak despite again only Sonic Rush actually depicting her like that.

[@slashy1622]

@@rynobehnke8289 I do prefer the idea of her just being very unwilling to fight rather than incapable.

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@slashy1622 So do I. As that way it would more so highlight her peace-loving character rather than just saying "she can't". Especially as it still allows her to be a fun playable character when the story justifies her going out. It also so makes her a bit more distinguished from the other 2 peace-lovers in the series Tikal and Maria

[@brandonwilliams6119]

Amy's story in SA1 is a metaphor for young girls standing up to creepers and stalkers. You love to see it.

[@bluestar5812]

Modern Amy's character suffers from a mix of fans historically hating Amy boy crazy/stalker personality in Sonic media from the 2000's, and a hatred for female character displaying any act of femininity in mainstream media. So you have Modern Amy: no longer crazy about Sonic, not trying to be lovely and seeing the good in everyone. She's super strong like Knuckles and very much capable like everyone else. I believe her depiction in Sonic Boom also helped molding this current iteration of Amy, because I recall a lot of fans liked how Amy was written in Boom.

[@manzanito3652]

Boom's Amy has also a crush on Sonic, she just tries to hide it, but sometimes she lets it slip accidentally.

[@devinsauls9137]

Hating female characters displaying any act of femininity? Rouge and Cream would like to have a word with you

[@princessofweirdsville9000]

@@devinsauls9137 I think people forget Cream exists and like Rouge better because she’s “edgier.”

[@HRIgnomious]

You say Boom Amy helped mold this, but she still had a crush on Sonic and was also extremely feminine. She just acted more mature than her game counterpart.

[@devinsauls9137]

@@princessofweirdsville9000 I thought they want Rouge for her sex appeals and as for Cream... please don't forget about her SEGA. Cream is supposed to look up to Amy Rose like how Tails looks up to Sonic. Yet SEGA tossed her aside like old newspaper 🗞️

[@remu6923]

Glad to see someone else share the sentiment that the beauty of Amy's character stems from the fact that she isn't as inherently capable as the rest of the cast. Utilizing her ineptitude in combat as a way to expand on her character by showing that she's capable in *other* areas and efforts adds a sense uniqueness that's ultimately stripped by just suddenly making her as capable as everyone else. Whenever someone asks me why I exactly I love Amy as character so much, I always point them back to either Adventure 1's story for her, or how her compassionate words alone were enough to help Shadow tear the veil of resentment from his eyes in the end of SA2. Sure, she isn't able to bash and destroy robots in a seamless and flashy manner like Sonic or Knuckles, and she can't come up strategies or devices to help with those endeavors like Tails-but, as you've stated countless times over in this video, her STRENGTH of character is enough to add both relevance and prominence to her presence. It's precisely that core element of her character that makes her likable and just as inspiring as Sonic. I'm always of the mind that tagging on weaknesses as a way to add an inherent conflict implanted within the character themselves makes them far more interesting to read about and consume rather than banking off them through hyper-competence. I've always felt that, within the stories moving forward, something was *missing* from the Amy I adored back in Adventure, and this video articulated my qualms and thoughts in a perfect way. Really enjoyed the story you made up for Amy to compliment the foundation of her character as well. Sonic characters have always presented themselves to serve as a focal point for some sense of virtue for the audience to receive and ponder on. Having the animals tear away from their idleness and instead help out in the final stretch goes to show not just how prominent Amy's growth has been, but also to remind us just how inspirational and important Sonic's character is as well. His actions, his demeanor, his behavior, his principles-his very character in itself drove Amy to embolden her qualities, and that effect in itself led to the animals helping out in a situation they would usually run away from. It all links together in the end not just because of Amy's actions and desire to show her capabilities, but also because of the titular character himself-the blue blur that inspires *us* through his actions as well. Referring to the last couple minutes of the video here-I'd love to see you create more videos with this format. The second you mentioned other ideas and wondering if you should make more videos like this, I immediately thought of Shadow. Personally, I haven't been really liking his depiction after 06, and I'd love to hear how you'd go about articulating his demeanor and behavior to meld in back with what he was originally conceived to be. Also, though I'm aware it would impede on your current plans/outline for the channel, have you ever thought about tackling the narratives of novels, films and possibly even animes in the future? I absolutely love your perspectives and thoughts when analyzing and deconstructing stories and I'd love to hear your thoughts on them. The Sonic Unleashed story video was a huge eye-opener for me and made me appreciate that story far more than I already did, lol.

[@Pariah6950]

Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the story. Happy to see you picked up on how Sonic inspiring Amy led to her inspiring others. All planned. I'd love to talk about books, shows, movies and comics. But it's hard to break outside of games on KZbin when you start with that. Even covering stuff outside of Sonic yields poor views for me. But I will at some point in some form. Maybe a podcast or something.

[@brandonday9638]

"I'm not saying characters can't train" *Character shows clear improvement as a result of realizing she can do more* "Exept now"

[@outoffr4me]

Maybe Tails could be the one making Amy's gadgets She could do test drives of some of his new inventions

[@eepyJay]

That would be so cute! You'd think Amy and Tails would be an obvious pair up for working together since they both look up to sonic.

[@outoffr4me]

@@eepyJay yup yup

[@crimsonzone8984]

Nah. I actually want Amy to have magical abilities. Conjuring things and getting around places with supernatural haxes. Tails can keep his gadgets but I also want him to be physically capable like what pariah695 said in his sonic prime video.

[@greenstarforce001]

​@@crimsonzone8984 Yeah!! Magical Girl Amy FTW!!!

[@justarandomdude797]

I agree with you that Amy isn't (or rather shouldn't ) be strong. This can make her one of if not the bravest characters in the series. Being just a girl means that she can't fight like Sonic Tails or Knuckles, but the fact that she still fights along side them I find really cool.

[@mistahg4496]

This is actually a REALLY good way to look at this! Reminds me of Krillon, and how he's not a Saiyan, so he isn't as strong as Goku or Vegeta, he can still keep up with a majority of the cast despite only being a human

[@zigzagintrusion]

I don’t mind her being strong, just maybe not as strong as other characters. I think her strongest aspect has always been her bravery and her heart.

[@mistahg4496]

@@zigzagintrusion exactly, like Krillon

[@zigzagintrusion]

@@mistahg4496I’ve never seen Dragon Ball Z, so I cant contest with that, but he sounds like an interesting character! I always enjoy the more relatable characters. :)

[@mistahg4496]

@@zigzagintrusion fair enough

[@sethmushambavanhu8391]

the main problem is that the main games act like amy has gone through some major development but it seems it happened off screen because everyone acts like she's had some growth without showing how she's grown the the closest thing is heroes and her helping cream and big and even then that's just passable for action scenes I think she should be able to destroy eggman robots not like big things eggman bosses if you catch my drift they could make it so amy has troble with badniks her being tired after fights and needing to sneak up or find an advantage point to tackling them

[@Rex13013]

Yeah everyone keeps talking about how she matured in frontiers and that she's better now but she didn't, she just did 180 out of nowhere, that's not development

[@LeafRazorStorm]

I think part of the issue is that none of Sonic's writers can figure out what is or isn't canon. Going straight from Forces to Frontiers feels like a dramatic shift for every character, but I think Ian Flynn expected the fans to read a ton of IDW comics in between those two games, and *maybe* it all makes sense if you have the time and money to invest in all that lore and the potential character growth within. I don't.

[@LannyLeArtist]

@@Rex13013 i 100% agree

[@LannyLeArtist]

@@sethmushambavanhu8391 FR

[@princessofweirdsville9000]

@@sethmushambavanhu8391 I think Frontier’s Amy has a bit more of her Boom influence on her, that’s why she’s much more mature now

[@ZeeBlueShork]

I recall in Sonic Battle she actually trains regularly to try and keep up with everyone. But i akso agree its kinda weird

[@Zadck1]

This was what I was thinking about, too! I like the idea that she isn't naturally strong like the others and she works her butt off constantly to keep up with everyone else now by sheer strength of will and character. It makes no sense in the real world but it does by anime logic one-punch man style.

[@xraiderblack1850]

He explains in another thread that it's after Heroes so the sudden power jump level was already there.

[@Zadck1]

@@xraiderblack1850 yeah except both heroes and battle gba make claims to be in the timeline directly after SA2, given the development being side by side and Battle releasing like 24 days *before* Heroes. There's tons of plot holes between the two games for the timeline of other characters. If we're okay with IE Shadow in that game vs heroes, should be with Amy imo

[@xraiderblack1850]

@@Zadck1 1.Rouge mentions Omega after meeting Chaos Gamma in Sonic Battle so Heroes would take place before Battle. 2. What's IE stand for?

[@ToaArcan]

Battle is a weird beast, because in terms of timeline it kinda has to take place much later than it released, as Shadow knows who he is in its plot, something he didn't recover until his own game, which came out afterwards. I also think a lot of Amy fans probably want to forget Battle because it's the game where she's at her most... unhinged. The things she does in her training are portrayed as pretty unhealthy and at one point she becomes so deluded that she hallucinates Sonic fighting alongside her after Emerl decides to follow Rouge instead of her. It was... not her finest moment.

[@Deoxys_Used_Mimic]

I think Black Knight has the weirdest relationship shown between Sonic and Amy. Amy first appears as Nemue, the Lady of the Lake, and Sonic freaks out at the sight of her… to which Caliburn demands Sonic to show some respect and so he calms down and bows his head sheepishly; scratching his nose in embarrassment. … 2 seconds later, in the same scene… Sonic is sidling up to her and she widens her eyes for no reason. Uh… What’s going on there? It’s like “Ah, Amy!? I’m outta here! Oh wait, you’re not Amy? Then cool… what’s up, babe?” …and THEN you have that plot synopsis Sonic narrates to the *real* Amy just before the credits and she berates him for coming up with a poor excuse that he “forgot their date;” in which she proceeds to pick up her hammer with murderous intent. Like. Excuse me? Since when were Sonic and Amy dating? Why would Sonic *agree* to that? What’s happening here???

[@JinxisHere758]

Maybe Sonic just doesn't consider it a date idk.

[@zigzagintrusion]

I think it’s more likely that Amy is just saying that whether or not Sonic actually agreed to a date lol

[@rynobehnke8289]

I think the idea here is Ones Sonic sees Nimue is he at first afraid thinking about how he missed his date with Amy and now she is is going to crush him. Than he realizes its not Amy but her look a like and they need her help. So he decides "Okay all the other "not my friends" have been very similar and I know how to seduce an Amy to get her to do what I need so engage handsome gentleman mode NOW" And at the end do we get the framing device of Amy being angry at Sonic for missing here date. And the most common idea why Sonic is a a date with Amy in the first place is because the player can force Sonic to accept a date with Amy in Unleashed.

[@zigzagintrusion]

@@rynobehnke8289 When can you force that in Unleashed?

[@Deoxys_Used_Mimic]

@@rynobehnke8289 That sounds like cope to me, but I suppose your guess is as good as anybody’s. It’s a very weird series of interactions, with no explicit explanation.

[@LeafRazorStorm]

So what you're saying is, "When everyone's super, no one will be?"

[@GarudaUltima]

Wow who knew that Pairah would be Real Life Syndrome amirite?

[@ToastyCubes]

Can I just say the amount of comments on your videos is absolutely insane? Relative to the viewcount I do not think I have ever seen someone with more engagement than your channel. Pariah, your comment sections basically count as supplemental reading to your videos with how much people have to say, and I think that's super neat.

[@bluephoenix4241]

Also, we can't ignore the fact that she made that her promise at the end of SA1 that she wants to prove to sonic that she can be just as capable as him.

[@bluephoenix4241]

Though I do agree that in cutscenes it is way better to depict her as the compassionate one which is a lot better than whatever happened after Sonic Battle and Heroes. Sure she can be selfish with her feelings for Sonic but she never seemed so obsessive that she'd actively get in his way before Heroes.

[@bluephoenix4241]

Though part of everyone's story with Sonic that eventually becomes close to him is how he changes them in a way to improve themselves and how those characters after learning from Sonic can help others change in the same vein. Though I can say that in Sonic Battle, it shows her exercise routine that she did use to become stronger. She DID actually work to become that strong and in Sonic Advance is where it shows where her speed started which does take place after Sonic Adventure 2.

[@sonicblurry]

I actually agree with you. Funny enough a lot of what you mentioned was addressed in the Archie comics. She started off the exact same way as in the games but eventually by the comic’s end she was was a very capable and a leader in her own right. I think since Ian Flynn wrote Amy and developed her over time in this way in his mind the character has already gone through this process. In the games alone outside comics it is hard to see the progression since Archie isn’t canon. Maybe since the games haven’t had a big consistent story like in the Archie comics it’s hard for Ian Flynn to write the Sonic games when it comes to characterization. I think this is a good criticism. Perhaps going forward we can see how she came to be the leader she is now or a more capable fighter by developing her forward by highlighting her flaws and coming to grips with them and that way will justify her ability to be more capable because she can use what makes her special while being able to keep up with Sonic and friends. Hopefully they focus on developing the characterization of the Sonic character and flesh them out similar to how Archie handles them while not ruining their personalities which came before in the games.

[@ToaArcan]

The thing with Archie Amy is that a lot of her portrayal was very controversial. Due to already starting to suffer from cast bloat before she even became a major character in the games, they didn't really have room to fit her into the team. When she _did_ become important, the more grounded nature of the setting meant that she wasn't allowed because she wasn't strong or skilled enough to contribute without putting herself in danger. When SA1 came out and aged up her game counterpart while leaving everyone else the same, Archie had to find a way to do that too. And Amy's fans _hated_ it. Go to just about any space dedicated to criticising Sonic comics, and, unless it's been taken over by disgruntled SatAM/preboot fans, you'll probably _still_ find people hating on Archie for not promoting Amy to the main cast as soon as she appeared. Bonus points if they blame Sally Acorn for it instead of, y'know, the writers. Still, Archie did the same thing as SEGA: After the timeskip, Sonic returned to Mobius to find that Amy was now strong enough to destroy whole armies of robots singlehandedly. Under Ian Flynn's pen, this continued, with Amy eventually becoming physically the strongest member of the team, easily able to best enemies that even Sonic struggled with, supernaturally good at learning skills it took others actual years of training to accomplish, and far more prominent than she really needed to be (Remember when Amy was a main character in the Mecha Sally saga while Sally's actual closest friends were in angst comas or regular comas?), feeling less like tangible progression for her character and more like Archie going "Okay if we god-mod her will you stop hating us for things Ken "Squirrel Years" Penders wrote before any of us were even working here?"

[@KirbySonicTeam]

Seems like a pretty reductive way to look at things. The premise of Archie is that they are in a war. The time skip, predicated on Sonic dying, very clearly framed Amys shift to an action heroine as an extension of her desires to be on the team as well as the need for everyone to step up in Sonic’s absence. Her hammer is also very specifically a magic item in Archie as it appears to her after absorbing the power ring. So her growing into this cute girl who can kick your ass archetype (like a Toph from avatar) was a fun endpoint. Something like her being stronger than the iron king is framed as being as cool as it is funny. The contrast of a giant ox man being forced to contend with a tiny pink girl is the appeal of Archie Amy in a nutshell. She’s not framed as just “strong girl power character” she is freedom fighter who’s extremely aggressive nature (when fighting for others) translates to her powerset. It’s why treasure team tango is one of her best outings because she is just full on feral mode but for the sake of standing up for Blaze and Cream. Which is satisfying not because Amy is strong, but because this is what Amy wanted to become. To be a hero like Sonic, and to help others in the war torn world she lives in.

[@sonicblurry]

My point was is that Amy as a character can be changed from a basic level. She is capable of much more! I love Amy and don’t wish to present her in a negative way. I’m simply stating that she did go through a small arch in the Archie comics from being a timid young girl to a capable fighter. I’m just giving an example of outside media how this was done. I’m not saying Sega should take this approach on her character. All I’m saying is that Amy is a great character and if they expand upon her character more I think she can go far. Amy Rose is a great character and should be treated with love and respect.

[@hiddenflare6169]

I’ll point out a small thing, it really isn’t on Ian Flynn on this one. He wasn’t made the write the main story nor could he control any events of it exactly, pretty sure he just wrote how characters may behave. It’s likely up to SEGA on how things proceed.

[@sonicblurry]

@@hiddenflare6169 honestly I can agree with you. Ian Flynn is a great writer and from my opinion I love what he did in Sonic Frontiers. It’s a huge set up from previous games. It most likely is Sega who has the majority say but I do believe Ian Flynn had a lot more say in the story than most people think.

[@MasterDisaster64]

Loving a lot of the ideas here. Particularly incorporating these tools. The rollerskates in particular seem very in-character. There are things I disagree with, though. The thing about the hammer not doing damage seems like going a little too far in matching gameplay to story. Even in SA1, she could take out basic badniks directly, though with more difficulty than the others. I'm sure this pool-inspired combat could be fun, but it would require very deliberate enemy and level design which Sonic doesn't usually have. It'd be hard to make it work in a game where she isn't the only/main playable character, at least. Not a fan of the regular animals being able to talk. Even if some of the classic stuff suggests that, it's just very strange and redundant worldbuilding to me. Why have anthropomorphic animals that talk, think and act like humans, and then have regular animals also work like that? This story could work without the animals talking - what they say here can easily be surmised by reading between the lines (or Amy realizing what is happening and saying it aloud, I guess). I think including SA2 before this story could still work. She was trying to help out in a head-on way in that game, but now she realizes she was in over her head. While she did help save the world by winning Shadow over, she was a liability most of the time. That's what convinces her to gear up like you say, and possibly start training to get stronger. But I'm guessing we're of different minds about the track that SA2 put the series on, and that's why you didn't include it.

[@Pariah6950]

I know these ideas would require some particularly focused design. I wasn't really thinking that far ahead. Just what would create for lots of fun gameplay possibilities. And, yeah. You could say this story takes place after SA2. Might even work better that way. Amy really wants to prove herself after everyone dismissed her last time.

[@crimsonzone8984]

@@Pariah6950 How about making her hammer attack slower while her other moveset relies on jumping and magic abilities. I also prefer the skating to only be incorporated with shadow, and his sol version if possible. So how about a pogo stick instead, or a mystical cloud, a witch's broom, a magic carpet, or even a rainbow that works like her own light speed dash?

[@enemyskill4286]

Hearing all this talk about character stuff made me realize how much “competence” (or lack thereof) seems to be a big theme in Sonic. Obviously you have the stories of Tails and Amy wanting to act independently, but then also Marine being in over her head in RA. And Cream having to lean towards fighting to solve issues in Sonic Battle.

[@gregtom3272]

well , this video made me appreciate amy from fleet way comics even more , not exactly the same as from the games , but did SUCH a good job at explaining her strenghs and making her such a good character with her own adventures , hence why fleetway comics feel like they took a decent amount of inspiration from shonen anime probably even from the begening

[@slashy1622]

Amy being strong through sheer force of will makes sense when you realize Forces implies anyone can do insane feats if they try hard enough. I agree she should not be on Sonic and Knuckles level, but like being one of the most powerful characters without any overt superpowers is fine for me. Just imagine Sonic works by Dragon Ball rules and she is Krillin.

[@sonic5993]

Krillin is supposed to be weak tho and the series never pretends otherwise unless it wants to walk him for whatever reason

[@antrox2346]

I think the problem is that nowadays Amy doesn't stand out much beyond helping Sonic's team destroy robots (which almost every character does).

[@Tessodan]

Amy is like Mary Jane from Spiderman. Her strength as a character is that she has a big heart and can help people without being strong. But making her *stronger* and as capable as other characters goes against the original appeal of why she worked. Like you said, even if she isn't as strong as Sonic she can still be a hero. On a side note I don't think Sonic writers really care about her consistency at all because nobody really has expectations for her since she's well...Amy lol she isn't very paid attention to

[@numbug1234]

Without a full on reboot (or a Soulcalibur 6 styled time travel reboot to right after x game), I think it's too late to reign Amy back in to how she was like before, just because now we have years and multiple games worth of her being this immense action tier hero. That being said, I absolutely agree with you Amy's whole character has been tossed aside and now she really doesn't even have a personality outside of Girl. Hell, her crush on Sonic is entirely absent nowadays and that's literally the reason she existed as a character in the first place.

[@dragondelsur5156]

That's a problem of her personality, not her power scaling, that's avoiding the true problem and calling it something else.

[@texrot9781]

26:20 this seems funny to me because the word "momentum" is used very wrongly in the franchise. What most of the people mean by "momentum" is actually "acceleration" and "energy conversion":One simply gaining speed over time and other one turning a "potential" energy you have from the height of your location turning into kinetic energy which translates to your speed when going downhill. Momentum on the other hand is more about the relation between your mass and your speed. So if we implemented a mechanic like that where she can transfer her momentum into badniks, she can actually perform a physical trick called "elastic collision", which actually involves actual momentum from real physics. With this "collision" system, where she can throw off badniks that are less heavy than her with even more speed than her final speed, whereas she will get pushed back faster than the badnik's final speed if the badnik is heavier than her. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

[@Pariah6950]

I've been meaning to talk about this for a while. We gotta stop using the word momentum. That's not what it is. Acceleration, inertia, gravity, velocity, etc. is what we're really talking about. I prefer to just call it Sonic physics these days. I did realize that idea for Amy would be the first instance of real momentum in Sonic. I did also think about have that level of complexity. But simplicity might be better to make things more easily graspable.

[@TechBlade9000]

Personally I prefer the word pinball instead of momentum It's more specific

[@gleamingroses2952]

So, Pariah, I watch a lot of your Sonic analysis videos and want to say I agree with you about how Amy is the most mishandled character in the series. Personally though, while I agree that she shouldn't be on the same power level, she should be capable enough to defeat badniks otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. I think the Hammer allowing Amy to do feats like acrobatics is fitting enough for versatility on its own, since the hammer is often implied to be no ordinary hammer. In the Adventure era Amy was always sort of the 'more technical' character and Advance 1 showcased this perfectly, where her entire gameplay is centered around utilizing the Enginuity of her hammer to get around, as in it substitutes for her lack of being naturally gifted. Since Amy can hammer on loops or slopes to gain speed and height, if you combine that with roller shoes it could create a lot of nice synergy. Plus, with your magic 8 idea, just make use for her tarot cards, which could explain any magical feats she could do. Like the gameplay of Amy in Sonic 1 hack you had as gameplay, I think that's a good way to evolve her abilities and things like the hover was what she had in Heroes, which again is entirely from the hammer, so it makes sense. Even things like the tornado and such. Again, have Amy's abilities come from her Enginuity, like her hammer, her tarot cards or skates etc. Where on her OWN she isn't as powerful, but her skills keep her on the same playing field where she can be an equal to them. Sonic Battle is the one instance of her training. I do like a potential reason for her gaining things like super speed is from chasing Sonic, don't know how you feel about that. Amy was supposed to be the series badass normal, like Batman or Captain America where she relies on her acrobatics, hammer and Enginuity as compensation for lack of true superpowers. When it comes to her character I 100% agree. Sega's play it safe approach has basically affected Amy, and the fact people find this progressive is questionable because they think a female is a strong female simply if you strip away what made them a character. Amy in general is/was overcritized, and hottake, I hate how she's been written in the 2010s, including Frontiers. (The one exception being IDW) because it's very odd how people think having no character is better than one. If detractors want to argue about Amy being annoying or obsessed with Sonic, they are at least providing descriptors of her character, I can get an idea of who she is. When it comes to Modern Amy? What exactly is her personality or defining characteristic beyond the fact she is female? And no, "not being annoying" is not a character, nobody ever says why she has a character or why she's good beyond she isn't who she use to be, meaning she has NO character if you can't even describe her. That's not saying she's a good character, it's saying who she use to be, which doesn't say anything about Amy now, based on Lost World or Forces, who is she? This whole perspective when it comes to Amy is just regressive because people are saying a female character losing their character and being presented as more subdued and passive is 'productive." It's only IDW that really made Amy's development shine, and that's because unlike the games, the comics transition Amy organically, as in it feels like she got there on her terms. It feels like she's written to be subdued because Sega's response to detractor backlash, as if you provide any transition Amy has shown feelings for Sonic since Generations, the shift is sudden and abrupt, and as far as wanting to Forge her own path, this is a GREAT arc, but Amy herself has no character to capitalize with this. So, when I always hear "she's no longer fangirl so she's better" I never see anyone state what her character or personality is. Yeah, her caring nature is shown, but that was always an aspect of her! What is her defining characteristic other than the fact she's female, a boring plain Jane? they can show she's caring without taking away the rest of her. I also don't like fans using Boom to bash Amy and Knuckles because it was a different universe canon of them, and how the crush is done there is a generic sitcom like crush, which worked for that show. Frontiers makes no shame showcasing Tails and Knuckles flaws and establish who they are, but Amy? You wouldn't even know who she is and feels as if they are afraid to show she likes Sonic, instead of balancing her characteristics while shifting her priorities, she's just disguised as "mature" by looking calm and passive, which isn't what mature is. Outside of that one scene where she gets made, she barely expresses emotions other than passive gestures. It also feels like they are trying to write her as a watered-down version of her Boom persona because the way they talk now feels like how Amy and Sonic would interact IN Boom, only Boom Amy had a personality, whereas this doesn't work for Amy and she lacks personality, it doesn't help that the actress just gives the same tone throughout, not really shifting the tone of her voice, where Amy just has the most stock female voice, as the actress gives off the same performance, which doesn't work given they were two differently established versions of her. the actress also feels very miscast as Amy. You don't improve a character by stripping them away. That's like if Nintendo said in response to the criticism of Princess Peach being a damsel in distress "Princess Peach isn't a damsel anymore" by just suddenly NEVER making her kidnapped and is an action girl like Samus Aran guns a blazin. They just created the same problem with Amy before just in reverse now. You don't remove character to improve, that is not how that works. In IDW Amy is still showed to like Sonic, she just translates it differently, much more grounded. But her other traits are also emphasized and doesn't sacrifice an element of herself to do so. The few times I legit think Amy was poorly written were Battle, half of Rush (And I say only half of it) and Free Riders, which is by far Amy at her worst and feels like an amalgamation of everything people hate about her, almost as if a detractor wrote her themselves. And its weird how people find Heroes Amy the worst, but not that when it's just Heroes Amy done worse in every way.

[@Eldoofus]

It's kinda hard to say Amy should be weak since she's basically the main girl from the cast, the only girl that's truly 100% important in basically every piece of media these days... and having HER as the only weak character could give off the wrong message... you know which one. ... That being said, I would simply like Amy to be relevant due to her HEART rather than her HAMMER... if there's something I can certainly understand, is that she doesn't need to be powerful in order to be important... she doesn't need to be a fighter to make the world a better place... she doesn't need to compete in order to be liked.

[@SuperStaticPro]

Yeah. This was a good listen. I like the ideas you gave on a potential moveset (the idea of the roller skates are my favorite) and that potential story of what you can do with Amy is something I want to see in a game or Sonic Cartoon.

[@lucymorrison]

I love Amy, she’s my favourite Sonic character and she has been since I was a little girl, I think that her being portrayed as a stronger, more capable and more important character over time is a good thing because the main sonic crew is drastically lacking in a strong, cool female playable character, as well as the fact that in the modern games it compliments her arc in Adventure, she became more confident in herself and more capable over time. I totally get your take on this but I really deeply love Amy’s current characterisation.

[@theking8347]

They didn't show this change in characterization happening, it just happened out of nowhere.

[@Lazypackmule]

I will forever stand by the potential of the stealth gameplay angle It's an understandable evolution from SA1, would keep her power level in check, fulfill the purpose of an alternate gameplay style in a modern Sonic game by providing an engaging challenge that fills way more playtime than the quick Sonic levels, and keep her relevant to the plot at basically all times since there's rarely a story where that skill wouldn't be uniquely useful at some point instead of just a workaround for weakness

[@Pariah6950]

I was going to mention that as an option. But I've had enough alternate gameplay in Sonic lol.

[@Lazypackmule]

Fair

[@AizakkuAnalysis]

24:50 If you don't like the idea of Amy using her strength to slam into the ground and propel her upward, maybe you could redesign her hammer. Why not have the ends be made from springs? I think that would justify how she's able to get that much air while not using much strength.

[@Liboo52]

Amy getting roller skates is such a brilliant, simple idea it’s nuts they haven’t implemented it at some point. They came up with Shadow having sci-fi hover shoes decades ago and yet nobody has regular old roller skates haha

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

I think it's just that Amy has trained enough to get as strong as her friends, which I think was too fast but, I think at this point she should be

[@justinterry7853]

It may be something natural as Amy loves to hang with her friends and workouts/training may come up at some point when they hang out

[@ashtray4344]

Well, she still isn't fast

[@greatestutuberhd]

What about her appearance in Sonic the Fighters? That was her first appearance in a combat setting and that was before Adventure. She felt like she was on an even playing field with most of the other cast there.

[@nobodycares607]

Pov you didn't watch the video

[@gigaphoton376]

Honestly, I don't really see the problem with modern Amy. Yeah, some of her original character traits were retconned from, but she's still in essence the same character. Taking into account the stuff that she went through in Forces and IDW, it's not a ridiculous thing to assume that she matured throughout that time, her approaches towards Sonic becoming less aggressive seems very reasonable to me, but it's also important to note that she hasn't completely lost that spark. That fangirly part of her still shows up once in a while, sure, maybe it doesn't do so in the recent games, but the circumstances of Forces and Frontiers were fairly serious, and she hasn't really shown to be like that when stuff gets serious. As for the strength thing, yes, it's inconsistent, but so is most of the other characters'. I understand that it's more egregious for Amy, since that was part of her narrative, but actually giving her the ability to fight allows for more opportunities for her character to appear. Of course, you don't have to be special to be Sonic's friend, I'm not saying that, but if you're not capable of protecting yourself, then how do you intend to stick around Sonic against Eggman or something? Sonic isn't gonna put normal civilians in danger just because they are friends of his, and since most Sonic stories involve him fighting some powerful threat, those regular characters will be left out. At the end of the day, Amy has changed, of course, but so has everybody in the series, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'd still rather see Amy as someone who I could actually believe to be Sonic's friend and see her be more of a contribution to the story, than the stalker in distress that she used to be in many of the games. Sure, they can't reasonably tell another story about random people being able to rise to the occasion and be heroes in their own regard with Amy, but the compassion and kindness that she showed towards Gamma and Shadow is still there, they can still write stories with that aspect of hers, which they did with Frontiers.

[@greenstarforce001]

Yeah, I agree And besides, you could always just use Cream if you want to write a story about random civilians rising up to stop evil

[@theking8347]

She's not the same character. At all. Amy hasn't changed, the way she's written has.

[@zigzagintrusion]

I don’t mind Amy being a bit weaker than the rest of her friends, because it just makes her more relatable and badass, in my opinion. I like her working hard to keep up and using her big heart to solve issues instead of her strength! In the past, she’s always had to work harder to keep up with everyone, but she’s never let it get her down and that makes her one of my favorite characters. Your ideas for the gameplay are honestly amazing and I wish SEGA would use some of them, especially the skates and the hammer physics. (Obligatory “SEGA hire this man!”) The story is super cute and interesting in my opinion and I genuinely want a game based on this!!! Great video, by the way! I hope you’ll make more videos like this with more Sonic characters. Definitely subscribed!

[@saffy18]

Going to have to disagree with your take on modern Amy. I agree that her compassionate, down-to-earth side should be used more often, but while her writing has been very inconsistent and it's a bit weird that she's suddenly capable, I don't think it's wrong for her character to reach this point. While yes she was initially supposed to be a very normal character who couldn't do too much, you forget about the fact that she's the only Sonic character who wields an actual weapon BECAUSE she doesn't have any special powers (flight, super intellect, pyrokinesis, speed, etc), besides her tarot cards if that counts. She's constantly surrounded by fighting and combat, and being a person who wants to help and do something on her own, it's natural she would want to become more physically capable. It's not like it comes out of nowhere either, we know that she trains physically (Sonic Battle and Sonic Channel art) and her high speed comes from constantly trying to keep up with Sonic. Her initial uniqueness as a completely normal character isn't forgotten, but reinforced through the fact that she actually has to train and practice to achieve these same abilities that everyone else naturally has. Even then, she's still not as strong as Knuckles or as fast as Sonic. Also, Sonic and Amy's current relationship isn't somehow ruined just because they actually get along now. They have a much, MUCH better relationship now compared to before, when both characters would bring out the worst from each other in every single interaction that it ended up making Amy look like some kind of obsessive lunatic, with not even the in-universe characters wanting to be around her. And how is Amy, the leading female of this franchise, supposed to be received well if even the main character doesn't show that he likes her? Their dynamic changing is a good thing, since she is supposed to be one of Sonic's very close friends (she's been here since 1993 after all), but you don't really get that kinda vibe if Sonic is always ignoring her.

[@felixdaniels37]

You're not wrong, but I also see what he's trying to say, in that it probably would've been much more satisfying to SEE her develop to where she is now, rather than sinply flipping a switch and pretending like she was always like this.

[@saffy18]

@@felixdaniels37 Yeah I mentioned that in my post. It's weird that she's all of a sudden capable and there should've been more of a transition.

[@stratospherica]

​@@felixdaniels37 It probably would've been satisfying to see that growth, but I do have to wonder if we ever expect male characters to get the same explicit (rather than implied) character arc/training montage in order to take them seriously Granted I wish there was some consistency between games. If you combine all of her abilities from each game, she's easily the most powerful character in the entire universe lol

[@CringusMcDingus]

Kind of stupid idea: An Amy solo adventure showing her be weak at the start of the game, but as you progress, she gets stronger and more capable and stuff. Basically SA1 Amy campaign the game

[@bumblebee4791]

I get your ideas on amy more but i still dont fully agree with amy being weaker than everyone else, especially when she can make shockwaves in Sonic adventure and launchs herself high in the air single-handed which is something that you yourself noted takes alot of strength as well as alot of the weird and 'magical' things she's done afterwards. But i do think that an underpowered Amy would have a really fun and interesting story to tell, and i enjoyed what you've come up with. Hopefully, something like this could be done with classic Amy as she is Amy at her least experienced and can give an outside perspective to Sonic's bubble, and we could see what life with eggmans attacks are like to normal people. But i do feel like for Amy as she is now, it would be somewhat regressive and unfavourable for a larger Western audience to see the prominent female of the series to be weaker than the guys around her which is why i said classic amy as she is less experienced and is new to adventuring and doing hero stuff. Also, Amy getting stronger though training isn't entirely unbelievable as it is something seen in many anime, which is something that Sonic's story give off in terms of energy, like the series feels very anime if you get what i mean, which is why i dont mind it.

[@Pariah6950]

This is actually why I like the idea of the Classic and Modern split. Let's us do different things with the characters. We can develop them in different ways and explore more possibilities. I'd be fine with current Amy if Classic Amy could go in the kind of direction I suggested.

[@dragondelsur5156]

I agree, if you nerf Amy back to where she started not only she regresses, she has to climb an already high peak again to where she was, that's the equivalent of having to level up again in a Dark Souls game because someone stole your stats, and you make a lot of people furious in the process. Also, this idea with classic Amy was already explored by IDW, she's left behind by Sonic and Tails and she befriends Mighty and Ray to help search the emeralds. Sure, she's 10 times more nerfed than how her classic counterpart was in Archie but it shows her compassion at full display, and it was written by fucking Flynn who always has a trouble at showing this aspect with Amy. Though I have another idea that could temporarly nerf her character without crippling 30 years of development, and that's the metroidvania approach. Say, in a hypothetical game focused on her (Sega, you know what to do) she's captured by Eggboi and uses her as a subject on a machine that could fragment their memories, that including years of experience. The goal of the game being to escape Eggman's facility whilst recovering what Amy lost and who she was, including optional collectables that improve her health and power. Maybe I say go stupid with this idea and include all of what she used to have, no matter if it made sense or not, she could use invisiblity to avoid detectors, spindash to break certain walls she cannot break with her hammer, the hammer vault for higher mobility, the whole nine yards. The bosses could also scale on height and toughness, starting from weak as hell to something that tops over Amy. I always felt that nerfing Amy stops being unique and it becomes a hinderance to her development because it strips her from being normal but strong and she just becomes normal, completely unable to contribute because powers are what makes you strong and not years of training, and so her dreams fade to black because they become a complete impossiblity. I feel that only with the metroidvania approach this is possible because it doesn't shy away her development from zero to hero, it pushes it to the forefront, Samus always loses her shit with every Metroid game so I guess Amy could have her cake and eat it too in the same situation.

[@ProjectYellowHound]

I just watched a nearly 1 hour video about a Pink hedgehog in a dress, this is my life now I guess. Rad video by the way

[@parjupiter134]

Ultra chad behavior

[@hollowhenry04]

26:12 Bro just became a god tier game designer,he made speed important. Edit:Just watched the next 2 minutes of the video,this idea is gold.

[@SuperChrim]

Definitely do more like this. I love your fresh perspectives on a topics like these. You back up your takes with logical reason with respect to the original Sonic creative vision. And you utilize those perspectives to actually make new ideas. I certainly get very inspired when hearing your ramblings, so by all means, do continue.

[@graemehutton2433]

How about in a 3D game, Amy starts to discover a bunch of old style "badniks" that are still operational- the types with animals in them- but the other heroes are more concerned with the bigger plot line. Lots of the classic Sonic 1,2, 3 badniks are amped up into bosses for her (they're tougher for her to beat than the Heroes that used to basically run through them) but when she beats them, the animals teach her how to use the robo parts: so maybe the first "boss" she faces is motobug, and after that she can ride around on his wheel giving her speed; At some point she beats a spikes and can roll into a ball; then a roller that teaches her to spin dash. By the end of the game she looks like this awesome mech warrior that can do pretty much everything all the others can, but not as well (cos eggman tech).

[@QwerpOS]

Bro, you need to make more of these videos, they are extremely insightful and fun to listen to. Plus, in all honesty, rather than waste these ideas on a franchise that's unfortunately never going to use them , I think it would be really beneficial to create your own IP that makes full uses these ideas and thensome. That's kind of what I've been doing myself, and after a good chunk of world-building, I'm extremely pleased by what I've been able to cook up.

[@verymelonman12]

So for everyone to like Amy in the future without being divided on which take is better, Sonic Team needs to allow its writers to keep a consistent idea for her and develop Amy with that in mind instead of changing directions between titles.

[@___8241]

15:21 finally someone who fucking gets it. edit: i love your amy story so much. one of if not the best idea i've ever seen for handling her growth as a character without losing her roots.

[@ayenanimates2757]

I have never seen Amy under this light, but I understand why you don’t like how she is handled today. And the story sounds like it would be the start of an ark that lets her grow to be on par with the main trio. I enjoy this and hope maybe SEGA takes a look and consider’s this!

[@ThePastAnalysis]

While I can understand and sympathize with your desire for more development, I disagree. I think them making Amy stronger has worked and like the path they've given her. While Amy early on was weaker, I don't think her being weak was the basis for her character. Amy has never been defined by being weak. She's been defined as a dreamer. Her becoming strong is easily her more fulfilling her dream of being like Sonic.

[@WildWeavile]

I agree with you 0:30, like what makes Amy so special is that she isn't as strong as everyone else physically but more so emotionally. Without her, Shadow wouldn't have remembered what Maria had wanted. Or in Adventure 1, she helped Gamma question Eggman.. Or even in heroes, where she energized Team Rose to go look for their friends rather than having sonic or someone else do it for them. I think frontiers is finally bringing back the amy we know, which I'm happy about.

[@willbrgamer5137]

@sonic 1995 bro, i remember you in other comment sections, you seriously like to shit on this game in every possible way.

[@playerback7722]

Damn for real

[@jurassicarkjordanisgreat1778]

Yeah. Not every female character has to be “strong independent women TM” this trend started with boom and people think that suddenly if a character is like that it means they are suddenly a good character now

[@lukescrew1981]

In Sonic Heroes I kinda give it a pass when it comes to Amy being able to fight the enemies since she's in a trio. Even though her 2 other companions are a 6 year old girl and 18 year old fisherman but to be fair Big is canonically the strongest character and could easily conquer the Earth if he wanted but he just wants to fish.

[@LunaticSolari]

Lmao

[@lukescrew1981]

@@LunaticSolari It's all true

[@LunaticSolari]

@@lukescrew1981 Yes Yes

[@randomfox12245]

I definitely get the argument you're making here and I agree with a lot of it. Unfortunately it feels like there's this Outlook that characters can only develop in one kind of way for it to be considered good development of that character. And that development is basically a character going from someone who cannot fight, to someone who can now fight. You see this even in stuff like the Yakuza games where they say they wish Haruka would suddenly become a character who fights, even though that is completely contrary to her entire character, because only characters who can fight are seen as being valid. And to some extent I understand where that's coming from, because "character can fight" also usually means "character is PLAYABLE" but then Haruka was playable in Yakuza 5 but everyone still bitched about it because she wasnt a fighter, and Character Can Fight is seen at the only valid goal for a character for some reason. The opposite of this is the reason why everyone complains about Tails now. Tails went from being a character who fights to being a character who took more of a backseat technical support role, and because character can fight is seen as the only valid way for a character to be, suddenly everyone's declaring that Tails has regressed. Even though in reality what's happened is Tails is becoming more true to his own personal interests and strength, and him being someone who can fight was just him trying to imitate Sonic and not being true to himself. But now he doesn't fight, so people see it as a regression and deterioration. Again, part of this comes down to the issue of Being Playable, but still. It's like the opposite of the problem with Amy, where she's been turned into this stronk fighter which is contrary to her entire point as a character, and yet everyone hails it as a huge improvement. Because Character Can Fight now.

[@Pariah6950]

Very well said. I've thought the same thing about Tails. It's strange that he doesn't get in on the action anymore when we know he can. But that could be very well justified by saying he's growing beyond wanting to mimic Sonic, and instead leaning in to more of his own strengths. Kind of like what SA2 was doing with him in the mech. Like with Amy though, the problem is that sort of character growth never happened. He just stopped doing action things for no reason.

[@slashy1622]

But Amy wants to fight? She wants to go on adventures. This is actually good character development in this case.

[@gargamellf59]

@@slashy1622 it's not character development because we didn't see her grow, she's as strong as sonic and crew now, no explanation whatsoever

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@gargamellf59 I mean technically which was ignores throughout this video is there Sonic battle in which after Amy failed to protect Emerl from Rouge repeatedly she for the rest of the game goes on a shonen main character level training routine complete with training weights and what not. Which we by the into of Cream's story learn from Sonic and Tails did pay off greatly as Amy did grow so much stronger that even Sonic and Tails took notice.

[@radilime]

​@@rynobehnke8289 honestly a game where she's *supposed* to face off against every other superpowered character is the only setting that'd make sense for her to suddenly rise up to the same level of power

[@TheJaredPunch]

Easily the most single jarring character in Sonic. She actually has the potential to be a good character when she’s not being love crazy for Sonic. Sonic Adventure 2’s moment with Shadow, Amy helping Blaze in Rush, and being friends with Silver in 06 proves that there is more to her character than just her (crazy) love for Sonic. And that’s the problem: Flanderization.

[@TheGerkuman]

In regard to your skate idea, I think you could cut out the middleman and just have her on skates full time. That would make her unique, especially in conjunction with the hammer.

[@devinsauls9137]

The instruction booklet for Sonic Advance 2 says Amy Rose was training. This is emphasized in Sonic Battle when she decides to Boxercise. Also how do you explain Amy's invisibility power in Sonic '06?

[@devinsauls9137]

@@miadatenshi9903 Then why SEGA gave it to her in the first place?

[@dmclsl03]

@@devinsauls9137 Because

[@insertunoroginalnamehere6189]

✨magic✨ I mean, she reads tarot cards, is interested in magic.. how did she *gain* the ability to become invisible, and for it to never be mentioned again?? I have no idea, maybe she met a mysterious entity that gave her that power for some reason...? Maybe she drank a potion, or maybe she had the power the whole time (though it doesn't fit her character) that she only realized and unlocked later on in her life?? Though she's supposed to be a "normal girl" with no supernatural abilities, who rather finds another way to be a hero, even if it takes more effort for her than others

[@Marc-rw3dd]

I think we should just all collectively pretend 06 doesn't exist/isn't canon for our own sanity.

[@antrox2346]

I think Amy should focus a little more on magic and mystical things, that makes her unique and expands her character a little more, rather than just making her a character that is only bruiler like Knuckles and others characters.

[@UltimateSuperX]

The gameplay sounds good on paper, but there are a lot of problems with it when you actually think about it. Amy is already a slow character but this will make her gameplay even slower than Adventure and 06, because you have to contestants have to stop in front of an enemy to do these pull physics, and that alone would be a pain and slow because you have to wait for the enemy to be on the right spot, and as we seen the past, Sonic fans don't like it when you have to play as a slower character. double jump trick sounds cool, but again, we're working with a slower character, so the chances of hitting the character in the right time in the right spot to get enough boost in the air to get where you need to go is very slim.

[@NIMPAK1]

Personally I don't mind Amy being able to go fast because she's always chasing after Sonic, though obviously she should still have a lower top speed than Sonic and have lower acceleration. She can still do stuff well, but she has to work for it more. Generally I would probably keep her Advanced-style gameplay, though I really like the idea of her being able to hammer off walls. Another thing I think would be a neat addition is a Scrooge McDuck style pogo stick if you press down + attack in the air, this allows her to get a higher bounce from a standstill and bounce off slopes, as well as attack enemies below. I also really like the idea of her launching enemies in the air, this could be done with up + attack from the ground. I'd want enemies to still take damage, but they'd take significantly less damage so can still do bounce tricks, but you can't bounce indefinitely and you only have a few tries to get the trick right. I'd also give the pogo stick the ability to launch enemies slightly so you get a bit more height bouncing on them repeatedly, especially if you land the bounce while an enemy is falling.

[@caveirainvocada9438]

Recently there's been discussion online about how Sonic in the IDW comics feels out of character when he tries to monologue and redeem villains who are still openly aggressive towards him, but when he explains his reasoning for acting this way to Surge, it feels incredibly justified and according to his principles imo, so frankly i don't think the "out of character" argument against writing this behaviour in him is not even nearly as strong as "he's stealing Amy's thing", so i'm kinda happy with the way he didn't find much success trying this in the comics, you could read it as some of Amy's qualities rubbing on him but he's not as good as her with all the words and compassion stuff. Now, Amy is not this Jesus kind of character that talks to and redeems everyone and they're suddenly free and not evil or antagonistic anymore, but when the story needs to have a moment where a character is moved by incredible compassion and purity or anything similar, that should be HER moment. Amy becoming very strong so suddenly is very weird writing-wise for a series that frequently explores the idea of "each person has their own strenghts, so they have their own unique way of helping everyone" to suddenly make her as competent in combat as the main trio when she already had her own thing going on, but commercially, my hypothesis is that Sonic is a multimedia entertainment series for children and teens, so they NEED at least one girl in the main squad that could easily be seen as someone as cool and competent as the other main characters to attract more girls to the franchise. It could probably be Sally, it could probably an entirely different character, but Amy was THE Sonic girl, by the time Heroes came out, so it had to be her. And you see, it's not that Amy was uncool or incompetent before, but her kind of coolness and true shine as a character isn't as immediately flashy and attractive for newcomers as simply being abble to kick butt. Even tho she is already very immediately appealing by being very a cute, bubbly and well-designed character, SEGA still wanted her to become part of the main cast and be able to keep up with the boys as soon as possible, probably because they didn't want new girl fans that thought Amy was cute or cool be disappointed because she wouldn't be able to be as "main" of a character as team Sonic. That being said, i have absolutely no idea why they kicked it all the way back in 06 like bruh. I also really enjoy the idea of giving Amy a lot of tools because that would be very much her own thing and i could see her kind of annoying Tails for some upgrades in her stuff maybe lol.

[@justice8718]

It’s very funny how people reference the creator of all things so casually.

[@caveirainvocada9438]

@@justice8718 lol I'm not religious but should have probably payed more mind to this, my bad.

[@justice8718]

@@caveirainvocada9438 Well, you gotta think why your mind comes to him out of all people and gods. It’s a subconscious instinct that all the religious and atheist have for some mysterious reason.

[@Kinra_Jade]

Sharing your ideas around Amy, even if it doesn't end up affecting the actual canon, could inspire someone. Who knows, really. Appreciate the efforts to explain your point of view.

[@kaloriommati6933]

Amy in Sonic Heroes sure is a mistake when it comers to her getting stronger for no obvious reason, but her relation with Sonic getting stronger is kind of normal; relations sure get better with time, and I've been there myself (with a girl who's also called Rose by the way)...

[@wiizosc]

I think Amy's only ability should be rolling because, y'know, she's a dang hedgehog?

[@insertunoroginalnamehere6189]

Yeah but shes weaker than others, if her only ability was to roll it just wouldn't really work, her having a hammer makes sense to make up for her lack of strength

[@dragondelsur5156]

@@insertunoroginalnamehere6189 That's the thing: 1) She's a hedgehog so she should at least roll into a ball and 2) If she can't use momentum and the level design is not supported by her abilities, playing as her becomes unfun, Advance 1 understood this even if she has no sense of speed she can use.

[@miaswapp]

I think that what you're missing between adventure 2 and heros is the handheld games

[@redshepherd32]

If he included things from games like battle and advance 1-3 most of his arguments on her power progression fall apart.

[@mistahg4496]

I love this story you've made, but I'm not sure about how you've characterized Sonic here. I don't believe Sonic would ever doubt the abilities of others. Especially not his friends, and especially not when He clearly saw that she can handle fights with badniks as well. I believe that he'd want to encourage her to keep going, to keep improving herself and her abilities. I think that while he wouldn't be able to accompany her, since he needs to catch up to eggman, but he would have faith that she could maybe one day actually be able to compare with the others. While maybe he wouldn't expect it to happen so fast, he certainly wouldn't want her to stop trying or to just "go home."

[@Pariah6950]

I realize it's a bit forced with him. I think in actual execution, you'd need to emphasize how Sonic is annoyed by Amy "just trying to follow him around again" as he'd view it. The idea is that he is totally unware of what happened in SA1 or Amy saving animals. So he's thinking she's still where she was before, thus he's concerned for her safety. Trying to prevent her pursuing him from getting her hurt.

[@mistahg4496]

@Pariah695 now THAT would honestly fix this whole argument

[@arcbuff44]

Give Amy's hammer flip a consecutive timing based jump that gives her extra height similiar to Mario 64 triple jump. A player must jump three times in a row while moving (whereas the Double Jump can be done on the spot in the 3D games), meaning they need a little space to execute the move.

[@bluephoenix4241]

My only thing is that both Tails and Cream did it too. And Charmy was already there and all three of them are kids.

[@descartesthehedgehog6064]

Yeah, I for one would love to see "Let's Talk About _____" become a recurring thing, much like the Sonic Was Always Good series. Great video.

[@charmyzard]

Videos like this make me wonder just how amazing a Forces re-write by Pariah would be.

[@lezlue2273]

I think it would have been cool if the games further explored what it took for Amy to become a fighter. I think it makes sense that Amy was constantly left behind during SA2 because yeah we the player witnessed Amy’s character development in SA1, but none of the other characters witnessed it. And because they never witnessed it, they don’t see her as a real hero. They don’t see her as someone who is working hard to become a better fighter so she can be a hero, they see her as just some little girl tag along. Sonic doesn’t take her seriously because he just sees her as just some fangirl, he doesn’t realize that she’s moved on from that. It would have been nice to see this conflict get its own story in a game. I also think it’s a missed opportunity that Amy and Shadow’s relationship goes absolutely nowhere. Amy and Shadow had such a life changing moment aboard the ARK. That simple little moment held so much power that it changed the fates of everyone’s lives. Everyone would have died if it weren’t for Amy talking to Shadow. You’d think Shadow and Amy would develop a friendship, but nah, instead all future games just treat the two like they’re just strangers. Their relationship could have been so much more. Both Amy and Shadow have something they're missing that the other could fill. Amy wants Sonic to respect her and see her as a real hero, but he just doesn't. There could be a point in the story where Amy wants to train with Sonic, but Sonic constantly rejects her because he’s always does that. He always just runs from her. Amy could be looking for a trainer and then Shadow could become that trainer. Because unlike Sonic, Shadow has seen the potential Amy has to change the world for the better. Shadow doesn’t see her as just a fangirl, he sees her as a hero who saved him from going down the darkest path a person could ever go down. Both Amy and Shadow have a hole in their heart that the other could fill. Shadow could have given Amy the respect and admiration she desires from Sonic, and Amy could have given Shadow the friendship and sister figure he lost when Maria died. This mentor student relationship between Shadow and Amy would also leave room for character development/character arcs. As Shaodw and Amy grow closer, Shadow would begin to see Amy as a sister figure like Maria was. But if Amy is filling in Maria's place in Shadow's mind, well, Shadow could start to treat Amy like how he treated Maria. Maria was this little girl who suffered from an illness that was slowly destroying her body, and as a result, Shadow saw Maria as this delicate, fragile little flower he was made to protect. And now, Shadow may start to treat Amy with that same mindset. Shadow could start treating Amy like she's a fragile little flower, much to Amy's annoyance. This treatment would seriously bother Amy. The whole point of Shadow being her mentor wasn't to have Shadow shelter her from all harm, the point was to teach Amy how to become a real hero, someone who can fight to protect herself and others. But, being a hero means risking your own life fighting against evil... And Shadow knows that. Shadow lost Maria... and he knows he couldn't handle losing Amy too. Shadow could go through a character arc where he learns to let Amy go so that she can fulfill her full potential. Amy may be a lovely flower, but this rose's got thorns. She can fight for herself. This character arc could cause Shadow to reflect upon his past with Maria... and realize he may have misunderstood Maria. All his life, he saw her as being fragile and weak due to her illness, but she was not a weak person. Just like with Amy, Maria's strength came from the power of her heart, not the power of her muscles. Maria may have lacked physical strength, but she had the strength to stare death in the face and sacrifice her life to save Shadow, someone she loved. Maria was never a weak person, and all this time, Maria was the source of Shadow's inner strength.

[@LunaticSolari]

This means that Amy would have a mentor...i like this idea. Recently I realized that Amy and Shadow are (accidentally) two sides of the same coin for writing reasons

[@sugamamaproud9810]

Agree 100% I can see that canon in mainline games and manga.

[@Randomperson-nz8gb]

Ok Pariah, now we need a new series called "Let's talk about (insert character)" Would love your ideas on characters like Silver, the custom character from Sonic Forces, Metal Sonic, and other characters with shaky consistency and potential

[@GeospaciallyGone]

I personally like stronk Amy.

[@Maya-tm5ip]

I luv Amy so I'm probably going to say a bunch of biased stuff but 15 mins in and so far I have this to say: I don't think that because Amy started out weak it means she didn't have something special about her. I think her heart gives her a lot of potential for growth. I think she had the heart to pursue her goals and somewhat keep up with her friends. I think her power is her heroicness, she's willing to push herself to the extreme for others. And I don't think that she's "as strong as the others" just because her gameplay is similar, I think that as a mobian she has a really high skill ceiling but not as high as Sonic I headcanon Amy, Tails and Knuckles to be in the 200-idk, 700?mph range with Amy being on the lower side while Sonic can go faster than the speed of light but that literally doesn't make sense to do and it would look like teleportation so I think he saves it for really tough fights. The reason I think they should still go as fast as sonic in-game and the reason I don't think it overshadows him is because Sonic can go inconceivably fast to the point where it almost never makes sense for him to go at his speed limit, he would instead pace himself so that he doesn't get hurt or hurt anyone and only push himself to the limit when facing off against world ending bosses, that's why Sonic is still the protagonist and that's why Sonic gets the big flashy fights. So I just headcanon sonic and friends to all be super capable and able to do most things but they can't do everything. It makes it easier to make use of all the fun characters and their unique abilities this way. Imagine if almost every other Sonic character couldn't have that high speed gameplay we look for in a Sonic game, that'd be no fun. I like them playing like Sonic games with their own twists (unique abilities) I think despite not being just an ordinary girl anymore, Amy is still a unique member of the Sonic cast because of where she came from. Because she was able to push herself to do better, she's leagues better than she was and that's amazing and she's earned the respect of Sonic and friends. She is a lot different now I agree, she's mellowed down (isn't obsessive over Sonic to an uncomfortable degree) and isn't the Amy she used to be but I'm cool with this retcon because I like girl power, I really liked seeing her shine in Heroes. New Amy is more feminist and we don't really get enough of it in Sonic, the 3 main characters were guys, the 3 main hedgehogs are guys too. Give us badass fem characters. Even now Amy is still just 'okay' and I think that's fine, I think she's in a good spot, she's just a hero, she's pretty damn capable but she's not *super* and that's okay. I do agree that Amy changed in the blink of the eye to the point where she's almost unrecognizable from her old self and it maybe shouldn't have happened off-screen but where she is now *should* be her end-point imo. I remember how happy twitter was that Amy was in the sonic gang now, it was the Amy renaissance and I never liked that she got the "eww stinky girls" treatment from Sonic in past games after all her heroism (and that issue wasn't just a problem with Sonics character mind you, Amy *was* being too much) she should have lead up to being who she is now, she's much more respectable and nice. Being a weak damsel character who still does the most she can was certainly unique but I like that she's not this stereotypically weak girl anymore and she also didn't lose her girlyness to become that, she still wears tube skirts and cute boots, she's still soft and kind and hyper feminine but that doesn't mean she's not capable. Hate to go off on some feminist rant cus that's not all I like about her or all I see her as but it's still good 25 mins: amy skates is such a cute idea I'd love that, so is the magical girl idea in your pinned comment c: I played a little of advance but I didn't really like Amy's playstyle, I'd like to be able to play as my fave characters without them feeling like they're from a different game !!wall jumping with the hammer is such a smart idea 46: the idea that amy can move others to work together and that every little deed amounts to something big is actually awesome, it reminds me of Marge in the simpsons game where her power was rallying people together, she used her protesting skills to get a mob to do her bidding 50: I get your point now, that you also want something close to current Amy but that she needs a growth arc and this also aligns with what I want out of Amy but I think it's wishful thinking to expect Sega to write deep story at all let alone to write something so in-depth for a character who may be like the 5th most popular character if I'm being generous Gud video, bring back adventure/unleashed storytelling and tone and make Amy cool and deep >:(

[@yotsuba_agi]

I always thought that Amy got stronger due Sonic Battle. They might completely screw up her character in that game, but she does work out a lot, and to me it explains why shes able to destroy enemies with a hammer swing. it is sonic we’re talking about so they probably didnt think about it all but I think all the training should at least lead to a somewhat stronger version of Amy. Not enough knock out knuckles, but enough to destroy an eggman robot.

[@VirtuaMaster]

Giving Amy what's effectively Heelys is so perfect. Though I do remember a fan comic depicting this exact idea, it's incredible and very funny. But it does kind of fit the same idea!

[@heonthehedgehog]

i dont know man, i think amy had a great development, from needing to be rescued in cd to finding her own strength in sa1, she actually is the one who breaks sonic out of prission in sa2, all the stuff she did in advance 1-3 to becoming a hero like the rest in (kinda) in heroes.

[@arisumego]

Sounds like you didn't watch the video at all

[@XGame80]

My take on this version of Amy takes place after Frontiers and Amy’s adventure to spread love to the world. After her journey, a new Sonic game takes place with Eggman reinforcing his robots and making them much stronger than before. Since everyone else in the group has spent their time getting stronger, they have no trouble taking these robots down. However, Amy wasn’t getting stronger at all and can’t take down these robots, which plays into the gameplay you talked about. In the story, Amy realizes she’s not as strong as she used to be and she talks to the other characters in the game in a few story points. Through the story, she starts to think that she should just sit out and let the others take Eggman down. Here, a parallel to Adventure 1 and 2 could happen with Amy confronted by a strong Eggman robot that Eggman specifically sent out to capture her and use her weakness to his advantage. After escaping the robot, Amy realizes she can’t just sit back and watch, but she can’t defeat this robot either. This is where Amy’s true character comes into play because she noticed that the robot seems to have a mind of his own and Eggman didn’t program him as heartless. Maybe Sage programmed it. Amy talks to this robot, getting through to it after many hardships and maybe getting captured and escaping. Amy’s compassion saves her from a tough situation, and that’s when Amy realizes that she doesn’t need to be as strong as everyone else. She can still get stronger, but she doesn’t need to push herself to be as strong as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles. She has her own strengths and that’s what makes her her. This character change continues into the next games and maybe shows her as more of a leader, getting back with Team Rose and helping them grow as characters.

[@lukescrew1981]

I think I saw a video the other from a guy talking about how Fleetway Amy is one the best interpretations of Amy

[@alexos9011]

When It comes to gameplay, SA1 showed Amy to be pretty agile, and that's something Sonic Boom tried to reinforce by giving her basically the abilities of a gymnast. And I think that would be a good route to make her grow from the normal girl to someone who's more capable in a reasonable way. The Sonic series is about movement and flow, and it would be really cool to see Amy use her hammer combined with the terrain to "perform gymnastics" in a way where she could traverse large distances relatively fast while still making her unique. Like with a gameplay like that the objective would basically be to use Amy's ability to constantly be on the move in the air and never touch the ground because that would slow her down. As for the rest, I do agree that depicting Amy as being as strong and capable as everyone isn't doing her character any favor, but I don't agree with the fact that the way Sonic and her interact nowadays doesn't make sense. I think ever since 06 and Unleashed Sonic has been growing more appreciative of Amy's affection for him. Granted, the transition in their relationship could have been more smooth but I don't think the way they interact with each other nowadays comes from nowhere

[@DaFunniGuy]

Yeah, what's next? Say that Knuckles character nowadays it's bad because he is not tricked by Eggman anymore and already associates evil things with Eggman? Because his character was created to be like that and he was tricked more than once, in Sonic 3, Sonic Adventure, Sonic X and Sonic Advance 2

[@Pariah6950]

1. I explicitly state I'm fine with characters changing, so long as it actually occurs in the story and is appropriate. In the case of Knuckles, him repeatedly being tricked by Eggman after 3K makes no sense. He learned Eggman is bad, yet that is not reflected in later games. 2. I would Knuckles rather be how he was originally supposed to. A one-off character. He was never meant to be a main character. That's why putting him in games requires ignoring his backstory or shoehorning the Master Emerald into the game.

[@DaFunniGuy]

@@Pariah6950 And Tails, because he is also very dependent of Sonic even thought he said he would become more independent, and it's even worse because before SA1 itself, Tails, even tho is said to be very dependent on Sonic, did a lot of stuff by himself Also Shadow, that was supposed to die but SEGA revived him for money creating the worst Shadow Era that was Shadow with amnesia or Silver for having a confusing future that has to make him comeback sometimes, and sometimes he even comes back to the past with no reason, just to race or to go to a park

[@Cloke100]

Amy's progression in strength in capability wasn't really out of nowhere or jarring, the Advance trilogy was a great start to her becoming more capable. All the countless times Eggman causes BIG trouble to the world and the lives of her friends, her remaining incapable of doing more to help honestly would be going against her character. Her frustration and self-loathing wouldn't allow for her to remain (useless) You got characters like Cream and Charmy being able to accomplish just as much as the other characters, I don't see Amy being able to provide genuine help for her friends and herself as a miss-step in character. Now how her personality has been handled over the years yes, its been up and down

[@saynotop2w]

I think you just want Amy to be a clone of Klonoa.

[@lasercraft32]

Its much more empowering for Amy to succeed _despite_ her flaws, than it is for her to be just as capable as all the other superpowered characters.

[@heonthehedgehog]

also, tails was also just a kid in sonic 2 and yet he was completly capable of catching up to sonic in the same game.

[@shumar_girl2024]

I really like the rollerskates idea for Amy I find that one way it could be introduced is by her asking tails to make special shoes for her to be almost as fast as sonic.

[@Farkonso]

These 2D gameplay ideas are so cool that it's kinda sad we'll never see something like that in the real games LOL

[@greenstarforce001]

Everything you said about Amy lives on in the form of Cream the Rabbit Also, your entire concept for an Amy centric game would fit Cream more (even down to the way Sonic treats her, thats exactly the relationship that Sonic and Cream have according to a monthly Sonic Channel story) I also don't really gell with the idea of reconning everything after SA1, I feel like it's way too late do that and is way more jarring that Amy being a strong and capable fighter Also, no offense, but I think it's kinda hypocritical to ask for Amy to show her growth but not do the same for the male characters

[@midnitecata]

i feel like the cool platforming stuff wouldn't be all that easy to understand or accessible for newer or worse players, feels like some pretty advanced "tech" as they call it, she would probably have to be the hard mode or you would have to make some big long tutorial for her

[@DanBedBy11]

I like your thumbnails, I'm not sure why She's one of my favourite characters, She's just really neat

[@evilbritishguy3581]

"The reason that I don't like Amy being a strong action character is because I think that is a worse way to utilize her as a character. I think it's not as interesting. I think Amy is a better character that has potential for more interesting better stories if she's not as strong as the other characters because, really, what does making Amy strong actually do for her character that's positive? It allows her to participate in action scenes and that's pretty much it." 9:54-10:25 When we are first introduced to Amy in Sonic CD and some subsequent games, our first impression of her is that she really likes Sonic but sometimes finds herself getting into trouble and so, often needs saving. Giving her the role of a damsel in distress is one that does help enable Sonic to pull off some daring heroics but at the cost of making her seem weak and dependant on Sonic to solve her problems. Consequently, Amy finds herself being the slowest character in Sonic Adventure and Sonic 06, thereby being one of the least fun characters to play as. However, by making Amy much more capable, stronger or faster, not only does this make playing as her more fun but it also gives her the opportunity to demonstrate that there's much more to her than only getting captured and rescued by villains and heroes. Making Amy strong and capable actually makes her more interesting because at first glance, she seems like a harmless Sonic fan-girl but is actually quite capable of squashing Badniks with her hammer. Also, I would argue that Amy becoming more capable, stronger or faster is an indication that the time she has spent with Sonic has lead to her gaining more confidence in herself, just like her hero. Surely, if Tails has what it takes to go from being Sonic's little bro to a genius mechanic and pilot, then I would say that Amy also deserves to be regarded just as capable as the rest of Sonic's friends.

[@greenstarforce001]

THIS!!

[@theking8347]

Tails was always capable of the things he does. Being around Sonic just made him realize he could.

[@dragondelsur5156]

​@@theking8347 Isn't that the same thing Amy does? Or are you excusing it with Tails because he's a boy?

[@theking8347]

@@dragondelsur5156 Tails is a mutant fox. Spinning his tails allows him to fly and keep up with Sonic. That's it. Amy has no such mutation or powers.

[@dragondelsur5156]

@@theking8347 She always knows where to find Sonic/anyone of interest, she can lift her entire weight with a hammer whack, she has the benefit of being a hedgehog (meaning she can roll into a ball), and I would mention more but then you'd say she shouldn't have those things. What do you even want Amy to be? A useless Lemming with a cereal box hammer?

[@MarzOnline92]

You should do more "Character Introspection" videos like this. I really enjoy your takes on how certain characters should be portrayed and how your ideas are applied to the gameplay and story telling. I'd like to see your take on Silver the Hedgehog and the whole "time travel" problem in the current canon story (outside of 06).

[@luke4502]

Cool ideas. One thing that doesn't really make any sense at all though is the idea that enemies would be defeated by hitting walls after slamming them with your hammer, as though the force of them hitting the wall is somehow greater than getting pounded by the hammer.

[@Pariah6950]

I know. But... video games. Some people actually suggested putting springs on the ends of Amy's hammer to better justify this. Which I think is a great idea.

[@TripleJump]

In a similar vein, I like it when Tails uses his wits and gadgets to fight his battles instead of spin-balls and superspeed. These are the things that set him apart from Sonic and without them he's just "Sonic but can fly." His strength isn't defined by if he can fight Gaia Titans or Eggman or Chaos Zero or whatever and is instead in how he's able to use his tech to translate alien speech or decrypt the Phantom Ruby. These are the things that only be can do and so he leaves Sonic shadow by excelling in these areas.

[@rockamillion2002]

You don’t understand Tails. He’s a great fighter like Sonic and a genius. If you take either away from his character and he’s not Tails anymore.

[@TripleJump]

@Rockamillion Tails being a fighter isn't really a part of his character though. It's just something they do so you can play as him. Maria can also attack enemies when she's Player 2 in Shadow the Hedgehog but I don't think anyone would describe Maria as a fighter. I mean, Tails spends all of SA2 shmuping things in his mech and creating Emerald Trackers and fake Emeralds. People wanted the old Tails gameplay bc it was more fun but no one ever argues that he was out-of-character or not-Tails-anymore in that game. But let's say fighting is an essential part of Tails character. Let's say that if Tails isn't beating up everything in his path with his unbridled strength and giant muscles then you're mishandling the character, fine. But like... why can't he fight using his gadgets? I thought it was really cool how in Prime he uses laser-beams to take out his foes. It could also allow for a lot of unique gameplay experiences that'd be impossible for any other character. I think it's a waste to just put Tails in a box like that and say: "This is what he was and so this is how he should always be handled." Not when there's so much potential to experiment.

[@rockamillion2002]

@@TripleJump Once again, you don’t understand Tails. It’s better when Tails is a genius and can fight like Sonic. That’s when he’s at his best. The fact that he can fight shows that he’s learned a lot from Sonic overtime. So Tails being able to fight is a part of his character, not just him being a genius.