Zen4(c?) APUs; 2400 infinity fabric stable?! 8700G and 8600G Reviewed

Integrated Graphics in the new Ryzen 8000 Series APUs. How is it for gaming? Better than you might think!
All benchmarks posted on the Level1Forum!
forum.level1techs.com/t/ryzen...
0:00 - Intro/Setup
5:11 - Benchmarks Start
6:50 - 3DMark Night Raid
9:15 - 1080p Gaming Benchmarks
12:25 - Aida64/Memory & Latency
17:01 Cinebench 2024
18:36 - Geekbench 6
19:23 - PCMark 10
19:38 - VRAY
20:00 - Stellaris & Driver Weirdness
22:56 - Conclusion
********************************
Check us out online at the following places!
bio.link/level1techs
IMPORTANT Any email lacking “level1techs.com” should be ignored and immediately reported to [e-mail].
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Music: "Earth Bound" by Slynk
Edited by Autumn

[@Level1Techs]

Whoops! Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro/Setup 5:11 - Benchmarks Start 6:50 - 3DMark Night Raid 9:15 - 1080p Gaming Benchmarks 12:25 - Aida64/Memory & Latency 17:01 Cinebench 2024 18:36 - Geekbench 6 19:23 - PCMark 10 19:38 - VRAY 20:00 - Stellaris & Driver Weirdness 22:56 - Conclusion ~ Amber

[@ShowXTech]

3:20 This is the 5Gbit Header, the 20Gbit is the smaler one below

[@hectorj.romanp.]

And the parts used. I know you said the models in the video but it is easier to copy and search with Google.

[@OOTheBlueAir]

nice, are you gonna test the ai cores, and show us what it can do, and if so , why to buy one of thise ai apu cpu___?

[@KL-pe4kn]

Lots of gamer-focused channels out there currently struggling to think outside the box to understand this CPU. But I can't come up with another consumer processor that offers so much compute and graphics performance with so little electricity.

[@lyth1um]

if you gaming, gamed on a nice fps build, u dont wanne go back and get a dedicated gpu!

[@SirSomnolent]

The problem is desktops come in boxes, that can fit a GPU ;)

[@Vhalikuporamee447]

@@SirSomnolentI regularly build APU-only mini desktops for work. The 8700G is extremely exciting IMO.

[@DickGently]

So many companies in media and graphics that this is a godsend for. So many jobs don’t have big compiling, rendering, encoding loads but are still more graphically intensive than a regular igpu could handle smoothly. These are perfect for professional looking minis with tons of storage you can pack around and spend way less on a laptop. And industry. I could see tons of these making their way into machines as cnc gets more and more sophisticated and automated. Huge manufacturing market segment for these kind of chips potentially.

[@KL-pe4kn]

@@DickGently will be interesting if they get Autodesk ISV certified drivers. Could potentially eat a big chunk of the CAD workstation box market. Ryzen 6000 mobile has certification.

[@Sonic6293]

APUs: you either get them or you don't. I'm excited to build a sub 3L SFFPC.

[@Mr11ESSE111]

this apus are stupid in 2024!! APus would only have point if their igpus will have around rx 6600 performance and this now are not even rx 6400

[@AlienInSider]

I think that APUs have already massively surpassed the best-selling video card - 1650! By saying this, I mean the almost identical speed, but also the inability of the 1650 to work with technologies that scale to lower resolutions, that there is no AI! I think the last one is the peg that gives this APU tremendous power!

[@Mr11ESSE111]

@@AlienInSider apus are for fools only and for office PC

[@PainterVierax]

Since the beginning APUs sits between two chairs : too much for office/multimedia desktop usage, but too little for AAA gaming. Graphics cards are still way above and not that expensive when purchased in the used market. What non gaming people mostly wanted from AMD since more of a decade was a basic iGPU for every segment like Intel did. Removing the -g chipsets with an embedded GPU and segmenting their products between CPUs and APUs was quite a mistake. Now the benefit of APUs on AM5 is not really the presence of the iGPU anymore or its performance (still impressive though for a SoC) but the sole fact those parts are a monolithic die instead of a chiplet, which allows better frequencies and better idle consumption. Those new APUs are a solution that can be both a desktop/HTPC while being used as a home server (for the consumer side) or a very capable office/lab computer you're not monetarily afraid to let powered on.

[@Mr11ESSE111]

@@AlienInSider not by performance

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

Finally real HDMI 2.1 output and AV1 decode and encode. Meh regarding the regression in the amount of PCIe lanes.

[@Level1Techs]

No HDMI 2.1 on Linux tho

[@abavariannormiepleb9470]

⁠”Well, Linux is open-source, if you really want HDMI 2.1 output there feel free to write your own graphics drivers!” ;)

[@user-ek5uq6ce2k]

​​@@Level1Techscan you please please PRETTY PLEASE check performance of the iGPU with Plex or Jelly fin ? Ideally with power usage :)

[@christophervanzetta]

@@abavariannormiepleb9470😂

[@tomstech4390]

Patrick Stone of gamers nexus would love these for his students, cpu compute, gpgpu compute, ai NPU and the ability to expand further in such a tiny low tdp package.

[@capsulate8642]

Still running my 5700G. It was really good value even without the GPU, and got me through the scalping times. Got a 960 for $30, then a 1070 for $75 last year, and that plays everything I need to. Now I'm waiting for a chance to cheaply get something with double the performance and more VRAM for AI programs (like a 3090 or something similar). Sidenote: If it's anything similar to the 5700G, the stealth cooler is gonna be rough. Once I could max out PBO with a better cooler, both the CPU and GPU improves by 10-20%.

[@junes2k]

I learn a lot from this channel. I dont know what your talking about, most of the time. but you make it interesting & that's all I require. and know I know a little bit about how servers work now. Wendell you're a true king 👑

[@Gazereths1234]

Nice beard

[@johndoh5182]

It IS hard to understand some of his topics but, servers are funny that way, a lot of hardware that's not so easy to understand. When he covers a desktop product like this I think he does a great job. It's not as detailed as Steve from GN who regardless of his opinions on particular products, the data he presents is very valuable. But what Wendell does with desktop products is give enough information for people to have a decent idea about it, without being negative.

[@Ashandaeri3]

always glad to see you Wendell. hope you're well.

[@AyoItsAntony]

wowww haha that "apply directly to the forehead" brought me back 15 years lmao! love the videos great work

[@eldibs]

I'm not surprised AMD is so far ahead of Intel with regards to integrated graphics, but hopefully since they started making the Arc GPUs the experience they gained from that will help them improve. It'd be pretty cool to have more competition with iGPUs.

[@MaxIronsThird]

So far ahead? Meteor Lake's iGPU seems as strong as the 780M, which is the iGPU from the 8700G, just clocked lower bc it's a laptop chip. Intel just doesn't have a desktop version yet bc MTL's CPU is underperforming so it didn't make sense to launch it to desktop. I hope intel launches an i3 and i5 MTL chips to desktop before June, to get an early start on LGA1851 motherboards and make H710 mobos a real thing when ARL launches, maybe they launch an i3 120, i3 125, i5 140 and i5 145, xx5 models being the ones with the full iGPU tile while the xx0 have the usual iGPU we expect.

[@PainterVierax]

Also don't forget they might have the beefier iGPU for a while but the lack of any basic iGPU (or good old chipset GPU) for AM3+ and AM4 and the early APU platform segmentation (FM1 and FM2) made AMD quite at some large disadvantages compared to the well-rounded Intel solutions.

[@krilektahn8861]

Interested by the fact that it meets or surpasses just about *all* motherboard powered discrete gpus. The fact that you need a 6 or 8 pin power connecter is a big shift.

[@MaxIronsThird]

GTX1650 and RX6400 are still better

[@tomstech4390]

​@@MaxIronsThird*at higher cost, Power draw and size.

[@MaxIronsThird]

@@tomstech4390 higher cost? Where?

[@tomstech4390]

@@MaxIronsThird 7700x and rx6400 at around £380 cost more than a 8700g and draws more power and has a higher tdp even if you limit the cpu to 65watt.

[@LiLBitsDK]

@@MaxIronsThird no the rx6600 is better, the 6500xt is terrible (watch the reviews... think it was HUB that ran them)

[@ironiclee9751]

I could see these being great for PC builds for kids. I grew up playing PC games at like 10 fps in the 90s and early 2000s, the fact that my PC could run games at all was astonishing to me as a kid. I imagine if you have kids under 12 years old they wouldn't be disappointed if you gave them a PC running one of these.

[@namyun2743]

If you're rich and you like your kids...maybe when they're in high school or above or have special talents you want to encourage. Otherwise, I'd just get them an N100 mini PC. Does all the web-based activity they'd care to do at 1/3rd (1/4th if you want to do mini-ITX) the price. Even plays the games I played when I was a kid.

[@christophervanzetta]

Rather not expose the kids to brain-rot. Books are a better long term investment

[@Just_Call_Me_Tim]

Haven't seen any of your videos before today, but I'm set. Great production value, and presentation! I can get onboard with this. I'm building a mini-pc with the 8600G in a week or so to be a retro-/indie- pixel art gaming and media center. It'll probably knock any of that I do out of the park. I've got a bigger 3080Ti + 12600K setup in a DanA4, but it's over kill for what I do (and where I have it at work). This'll be the smallest build I've done (Pico PSU needed here), and I'm excited.

[@spiralout112]

Was kinda hoping to see some power consumption numbers. Definitely interested in running one of these or more likely the upcoming zen 5 apu in low power itx server build since having the monolithic die should help out a fair bit with idle power numbers.

[@johndoh5182]

You're going to have to wait because ANY numbers that exist right now are subject to change except TDP. The AGESA failed to adjust, or basically remove code that's a carry over from this coming from the world of laptops, and that causes the clock speed to drop after a certain amount of time, which isn't the behavior it should have for desktop. So, best to wait until AFTER AMD puts out a new AGESA for this which shouldn't take them too long and then hope that Techpowerup does a review or update to their review after that happens. They give about the best power data because they give it for multiple lightly threaded apps, heavily threaded apps and games, and then they give averages for all this. However if you're interested in a Zen 5 APU those WILL be totally different because the core architecture is changing, which for AMD happens every 2nd generation starting with Zen 3, then Zen 5, Zen 7 if it exists and so on. Zen 5 could possibly even have RDNA 4 for the APUs.

[@andrewshade]

I cant wait to make a tiny pc with these apus! Also hoping for arm based ones as well for desktop linux.

[@ChengsHardware]

I actually want someting with less CPU power but more GPU power, something like 4c/8t，but with 24 CUs. I think it will make much more sense for tiny gaming pc

[@tomstech4390]

​@@ChengsHardwarehow would you address the bandwidth issue? 24 cu would need like 200GB/sec. Thats what dgpus are for.

[@ChengsHardware]

You're right,also it's not gonna happen just because it wouldn't make as much margin@@tomstech4390

[@thatwasonce]

well if we're allowed to design our own cpu then quad channel memory 16c/32t 32CU

[@stephenallen4635]

@@tomstech4390 well you take the space that a larger CCD would take up and add a bunch of on die cache for the gpu

[@DwynAgGaire]

Excellent work man!

[@RETR0_P0CKET]

Love my GPD Win Mini with the 7840u. The 780m is impressive. Doesn’t look like it scales well with more power though.

[@CataclysmZA]

Keen to see what kind of ML work could be done on these things. AMD definitely seems interested in enabling edge computing work with AI, and this looks like a good starting point for it. Also, you didn't explain or demonstrate the sub-60ns data from your PBO tuning. Maybe a future video goes into that, along with the newer drivers?

[@AlyxSharkBite-2000]

I'm doing a build for a friend this is perfect for. They play pretty much only World of Warcraft but do alot of other work that can really use 8 Cores.

[@pieterrossouw8596]

Same, me and my friend still basically only play Dota 2 - it’s crack cocaine and even though I can play anything - he’s on a R9 270X and a Haswell i5. A machine based on this would be a massive upgrade for him without wrecking the bank.

[@LuisDiaz-qg3eg]

According with Guru3d, only 8500G and 8300G deal with Zen4c hybrids that the Z1 non-extreme introduced. The 8600G and 8700G should be fully desktop larger Zen4 cores

[@barrupa]

I imagine something like this 8700G would be great for GPU pass-through.

[@pieterrossouw8596]

Do people actually still do GPU passthrough? I ran it on my Proxmox host and it was cool but made little sense when anti-cheat software detects this and can get you banned. That killed the GPU passthrough dream for me.

[@barrupa]

@@pieterrossouw8596 it is useful for general purpose hardware accelerated virtualization. Imagine running an OSX guest or a GPU accelerated Windows guest for professional software and such.

[@Dracossaint]

Im super excited to see how these little apus do!

[@iemozzomei]

I'm curious if you could use it in niche cases as a replacement for workstation cards. Using a 680M I believe you can control the ram - vram allocation, is it possible to run say, 48gb of VRAM with the 8700G as well?

[@MickeyMishra]

How good is the Video Playback on these APU's? I have not seen a review of that. Seems like an APU would be perfect for video editing since everything is being done right there on the chip with very low latency.

[@blender_wiki]

I wonder how this APU performs on professional software (Adobe suite, Maya, BMD Resolve DaVinci Studio, Nuke, Houdini, UE5). If there can be a solution for a mini PC for travelling or emergencies or many other usages.

[@dudeh9702]

I plan on getting the 8700G for a budget gaming/video editing PC. Was gonna go with DDR5-6000 but now I'm considering the 6400 kit. Curious how the faster RAM affects the total power consumption and heat since I plan on running these 24/7 @ 100% for distributed computing projects like BOINC. Wonder if the Noctua NH-D15 would be overkill for this APU if I want it to run as cool and quiet as possible on air cooling.

[@joeykeilholz925]

I mean it's 400 mts, not much heat difference

[@Maisonier]

Imagine if they included 32GB of HBM3 memory on the same processor chip... When will they start incorporating that memory with the processor chiplets?

[@Koeras16]

I guess that would make the thing far more expensive. Not to mention that they would need to create something that can handle that much bandwidth.

[@samiraperi467]

Intel has some Sapphire Rapids chips with integrated HBM.

[@alexanderdaum8053]

So something like the MI300A, but much smaller and with RDNA instead of CDNA? I guess integrating HBM is not cost effective for consumer APUs, as this would require a silicon interposer.

[@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527]

I feel like you might as well follow Apple, Qualcomm and Intel's foot steps with adding DRAM on the package itself.

[@GainingDespair]

I went for the $189 Ryzen 7600 The $150 MSI B650 Tomahawk WiFi (Amazon Warehouse return) And $116 GSkill 6000mhz cl30 It still seemed like a lot but I recuperated a bit by selling my old mobo/CPU/ram/m.2 ssd I'm just kinda the working poor money is always tight but its nice to afford new things even if I have to buy returns to save some money. I was able to get 2200 flck, and 6400 ram OC but timing wasn't fantastic compared to the good timing I got at 6000mhz Something like 28-35-35-30-36?

[@Bareego]

Considering this is an APU the generational improvement is stunning ! A great APU to build a small system. That said, the motherboards for socket 5 are still way too expensive, especially when you look at small form factor boards. With the existence of these APUs, maybe we could see some more small form factor boards even without a PCIE connection at a cheaper price. I don't mind this APU has less PCIE lanes, it's an APU, you don't need so many lanes as you don't have a discrete graphics card, that's the whole point of this product.

[@questionablecommands9423]

4:20 I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one still making Head On references in 2024.

[@NovusDundus]

I think it's a neat indicator of where things could go. Low-low mid gaming not really needing a dGPU, allowing slimmer builds and pushing things further. Just hoping faster and higher capacity RAM becomes cheaper.

[@mistermix3516]

Please do the A620 pro rs wifi board, I am using the mb right now with ryzen 5 7600. Thanks!

[@vericksworkshop5007]

I'm interested to know if it could be jankified to work with rocm. That would be sick budget setup to run large models like mixtral. Would be cool even if its slow. Or do we need the 8000mhz ram for that?

[@blender_wiki]

It will not be slow it will be an eternity. The bottleneck will be the RAM transfer speed not the computational power. Unfortunately the architecture of nowadays computers isn't optimized to move huge chunks of data between the RAM.

[@PainterVierax]

@@blender_wiki yeah the future of SoC is using gfx RAM as unified memory, like the PS5/XBS or the RaspberryPis.

[@gruiadevil]

Everyone else tested these chips at Ultra settings, just like they were testing a dedicated GPU and got a lot more different results. You're the only one who actually understands what these chips really are

[@user-ek5uq6ce2k]

Hardware unboxed absolutely did not test this at ultra....it makes no sense to test at ultra

[@gruiadevil]

@@user-ek5uq6ce2k They tested at Medium and High. Nowhere in the AMD promotional package did they advertised this as something that can play comfortable at Medium or High Settings. The bandwidth restrictions kick in. And even have fast DDR5 memory is still miles behind GDDR6x

[@KRAVER_]

L1T doing the work other techtubers do not do, nice work Wendell !!

[@Skobeloff...]

If buying one of these I would like the option of not getting the included cooler with it, it is just ewaste for a lot of people.

[@kubuntukowalski]

very nice!

[@fleshreap]

Been waiting for these performance level APUs for years. Still want a 95W or so actual desktop ones, but these are pretty nice already.

[@Sonic6293]

It's definitely gonna be a lot better than my plucky 2400G of days long gone. If we can solve the iGPU bandwidth problem without resorting to solutions like on-die HBM, we'll be able to leave low end dGPUs behind.

[@tilapiadave3234]

BUT you AMD fanboys said the 5700g would be faster than an RTX 2080 ti ,, is this 8700g faster than a 4090?

[@Vhalikuporamee447]

@@tilapiadave3234 I don't remember ever hearing that 8CU of 7nm Vega could get anywhere close to high-end dGPU performance, especially considering that the Radeon VII (which was truly the first 7nm Vega GPU) lost to the 2080Ti in gaming under almost all circumstances. You are completely delusional.

[@MaxIronsThird]

you know thse APUs are unlocked right? You can trow 150W at it if you want, just get a better cooler.

[@tilapiadave3234]

@@MaxIronsThird AHH back to the good old days when AMD cpu's burnt holes through motherboards

[@larryrodriguez1977]

I recently had an issue with my trident z ram. The diffusers for the RGB were loose and rattle around. I have the expo kit at 6000Mhz. They are sending me a new kit but it was weird to see that lack of quality control

[@jamesfox2857]

Ok New Tech Release , Bench does not register on most charts present on dedicated gpu listing , so i am thinking it is just for accessing board and a monitor more than likely nothing over 1080p though , its going to take some time to build a listing and if they do go a rise in same as the wider design making all boards common place xatx threadripper style they could build central `cpu ` as the main hub and anything outside just ad ons = ? almost screams well working extra liquid capacity for cool down return time allowing lquid to stay cooler longer not meeting max as fast and keeping it cooler on long runs looks like a quick discommect path seperating parts from each other that may go down seperately like pump from rad = rad mainly being fans = easy quick replacements , leaks easily partioned off , and easy refill res. Definitely Going to HAVE to have a fan On Rear Panel unless someone creats a back of motherboard block , which is near impossible unless the central takes up both back and front and leads come from where pcb spilts them as well and design also allowing for such , hmmmmm idk .

[@SilentShadow-ss5xp]

Would faster igpu be good for virtual machine gaming with looking Glass? I imagine the faster igpu will help render frames faster.

[@VladPalacios]

I have never tried but have always been hoping to build a ‘Looking Glass’ capable system. I wonder if this integrated GPU could be used by Linux and if I could get a dedicated GPU for the VM?

[@meh78336]

My 8700G, when it arrives (so much for next day delivery for yesterday), will be an upgrade for my current 5700G ITX HTPC, retro gaming system, so for me it serves a very useful purpose as the 5700G sees more use than even my main gaming system (7800X3D+RTX4090) or handheld equivalent to the 8700G, my Legion Go, so this will see plenty of use for me, even in what is likely a more niche market. Plus I have run out of gadgets to tinker with, so this will scratch that itch as well :D. I will pass on the 5700G to a friend or family member, so it will not go to waste either and will more than be suitable for most, though likely to my young nephews who have only switch lite's to play on, so they can play their games on the PC via completely legit means, honest ;D

[@trousersnake1486]

Hope to see 3d cache on apus next gen

[@novantha1]

I’d be really interested to see if you could address the iGPU from another PC over occulink. It’d be kind of a silly use case, but it would make a killer way to run 60GB+ LLMs slowly

[@blkspade23]

I wouldn't expect iGPUs be connected in any way besides display output. That is certainly the experience with my TB4 motherboard. You're effectively just getting a connection to the bus, as if you're plugging a device in to a slot. I really don't think it's capable of passing an internal device out that isn't physically wired to it.

[@lifefromscratch2818]

I could see these being interesting with home labbing where you get a GPU for transcoding, and you could still run a discreet GPU for another VM.

[@blkspade23]

You can actually already do this with regular 7000 series CPUs. Well I've only gotten handbrake on Windows to address the iGPU of my 7950X3D, and it could transcode at around 87% the speed of a 6800XT.

[@mojevalka]

my motivation for an APU: i needed a 'good enough' system for remote work from my country cottage. so i had an itx board with apu in the cartoon box and it worked just fine. at the evening i could even play some older game.

[@DJgregBrown]

I replace my 2200G with a i3 12100 as the UHD730 igpu had AV1 and VP9 decode which I wanted on my office/home PC as I don't game much but intel iGPU you can't game on. but all the games I play are old as I would use a machine with a full dGPU for gaming but as a linux user most my games I like are over 4 years old and this is more than enough GPU in the 780M and the encoder and decoder list is huge for a iGPU. NPU and AV1 encoder in a iGPU when on the current gen dGPU's have full AV1 support and same basic NPU. These chip being aim at Gaming is after the money but as a low power mini system for office/frontroom ITX build without the room for a dGPU. My only issue is the size of the cooler on the 8700 will rule it out of my i3 HTPC case as their is only 60-ish mm cpu clearance. Fan would be push up against the glass case. the Intel blue coolers just fit with enough air clearance. For Linux I want to move back to AMD but the Gamers are keeping AMD part here way to high so the fact these are getting bad reviews from the like of Hardware unboxed and kitGuru which both said what gamer is this for. I still hate the fact a CPU with an IGPU is often £50 more over MSRP because they retailers here over price their dGPU's and a lot of people like myself are like fuck buying a overprice dGPU want I don't game as much now. My next toy is a Minusforum mini UN100L as I need a home lad for nextcloud and a bit of network fun on low power. For my workstation I was only going to get a R7 7700 as I was going to use the iGPU as my linux work doesn't need GPU power so as long as it has AV1 and VP9 decode and now encode. As I only work with light media and videos. Now I get one of these and OC it a little.

[@RobBCactive]

The Amazon best seller CPU was the 5600g for a long time in Spain, so it'll be interesting to see whether the better gfx over 7600 will be valued, or it was the desire to be GPU-less. Yet, I presume the Vega gfx was preferred over iGPU for some reason like low end gaming.

[@TrebleSketch]

It was honestly wild to talk avout APUs taking over budget dGPUs 3 years ago (due to leaks) and me getting a weird look from friends but now tuat it's truely here. It's still wild xP Now let's see if 4k Low 30fps is going to be true in another 3 years 😅

[@LiLBitsDK]

they only "overtake" extreme "budget" GPU's that are absolutely pathetic and crippled like the RX6400/RX6500 those shouldn't exist today at the prices they do, they are utterly pathetic

[@TrebleSketch]

@@LiLBitsDK let's see how it goes honestly, been hearing about a RDNA3.5 40CU laptop APU coming in the next year or so! Wonder how that will perform vs these APUs!

[@GodOfGamingBG]

I think the ideal use for one of those would be to run Linux on the igpu, and set up a windows KVM with a pci passtrough to a dedicated gpu, and do all that in a mITX form factor

[@tulsatrash]

Ohhhhh. I like that idea!

[@tulsatrash]

Ohhhhh. I like that idea!

[@tulsatrash]

Ohhhhh. I like that idea!

[@tulsatrash]

Ohhhhh. I like that idea!

[@tulsatrash]

Ohhhhh. I like that idea!

[@Summanis]

I'd be interested to see if they fare particularly well with high speed memory and out of sync UCLK/FCLK given the higher bandwidth requirements of running a GPU probably outweigh any latency penalties. I'm not sure who would pair an iGPU with expensive memory though.

[@Hugh_I]

Maybe have a look at the GamersNexus review. They did the gaming benchmarks with different memory speeds (+PBO). As could be expected, the perf difference was more relevant than it is on the non-APU desktop parts. In the 10% range in some cases between 5600 and 6400 memory.

[@c99kfm]

Would be interesting to test the 8700G + 7900 XTX against a 7700X + 7900 XTX, to see how well it works with a dGPU, if you buy one later on.

[@tanmaypanadi1414]

Steve at HUB did a comparison with 7700 and rx6600 and rx7900xt

[@chromerims]

". . . do a DDU fresh install of 24.11 [gpu driver]" (14:30) A revelation for me, thank you 👍 Kindest regards, neighbours and friends.

[@falcdragon]

Interesting Stellaris was running the GPU at 800Mhz vs 2900Mhz for fortnite, is that correct or is it a driver bug somewhere...

[@danieloberhofer9035]

I'm interested in seeing how the perception of these APUs will change once localized AI workloads begin to play a more important role in software development. Right now, there may be no existential need for a NPU on desktop, but I have a feeling that this is going to look quite differently a year from now.

[@Hugh_I]

That could very well be, if AI in desktop software actually takes off as everyone spending money on it is hoping for. But I would bet that AMD will put an NPU into the desktop Ryzen IO die soon enough for it to be widely available once that happens.

[@mauricionunez1852]

I'm interested in seeing how these chips perform in a system with IOMMU/GPU Passthrough. Like: using the integrated graphics for development and light stuff but using a discrete graphics for windows gaming

[@darcsentor]

Makes it easier to build work PC’s that need some graphics power

[@truckerallikatuk]

What I'm wondering is what the APU has in the way of encode/decode, and whether that's still available with a plugged in GPU.

[@Hugh_I]

They should have all the encoders that the 7040 series mobile APUs have, since they're the same die (phoenix). That is basically all the latest AMD has, including AV1 encoding and all the usual MPEG, H.264, H.265 and so on codecs. They are still available with a dGPU installed. You just have to make sure the iGPU is enabled in the BIOS (it normally is by default), and it will be available just like a secondary GPU would.

[@alexmartinelli6231]

I just want to build a nas with this and a passive nh-p1. Enough graphical encode to do everything!

[@Uriel51]

This sort of thing is exactly the use case I was thinking of

[@user-ek5uq6ce2k]

I was thinking of this too but........the Intel encoder is just better no matter how you slice it :( Spending 250 for CPU to use as a Plex server sounds outrageous when older 8th Gen Intels can give you all the performance you realistically need.

[@user-ek5uq6ce2k]

I've been waiting to see the performance.....and imo wouldn't mind getting the 8500g or the 8300g if the encode performance is as good or better than Intels...but Intels new Gen is coming out with av1 encoder support and that alone is going to save you 15-20% of the file size... Savings which can be huge because you not only need less space and thus less hard drives, but you also need less power for your system...so the win is just too big to ignore.

[@ImDembe]

​@@user-ek5uq6ce2k Intels latest mobile cpus give you quicksync and some preformance to other stuff. I don't think Intel will release anything soon for the desktop market with that kind of power, maby next next gen.

[@NVMDSTEvil]

Need tests of how memory ranks with DDR5 affects the performance of the GPU portion.

[@thseed7]

I want to game on built in graphics. Not yet, but it would be really cool to be able to run full games from a compact platform, eventually (Think powerful, capable handhelds and tablets.) Would love CPU/GPU small/tiny form factor combos that run full power someday.

[@neccron9956]

APU's are handy for making a home NAS server (e.g. TrueNAS), and having it also run, for example, a Plax server.

[@WyrdieBeardie]

It might be interesting to compare the 8700G and 7700X with a discreet GPU, to highlight the compute difference that a monolithic solution provides. 🤔

[@osamely_varan]

what ratio is 2400 IF and 6400 RAM? I am a little bit confused.

[@kazriko]

My main gaming PCs have been a Steamdeck and a 5700G for a couple of years. I'd be more curious about how the 8600g/8700g compare to the 5700g and 7840u rather than the 7700x, since 5700g is what I"d be upgrading from, and 7840u is the other option I could move to.

[@swuspicious]

its about 2x better graphics wise, and 1.3-1.5x faster in cpu loads

[@Hugh_I]

Have a look at the Hardware Unboxed review, they did all the comparisons with the 5700G included. As for the 7040Us, I haven't seen comparison benchmarks, but they that should be roughly comparable. They are essentially the same chip in a different package. The 86/8700G may have an edge because of higher power limits and less thermal constraints, but that depends more what kind of device OEM built around it, than APUs themselves.

[@kazriko]

@@Hugh_I I prefer computers I can stick to my wall or to the back of my monitor, so a laptop that I could build a wall cradle for would be one alternative. The 7840u though is less than half the wattage of the newer one. HUB seems promising, making it so that there's very few games where I'd need to use my 3700x+6600xt streaming box to play though, but it would push me from a monitor-back deskmini x300 back to a mini-itx box mounted on the wall, so it's inconvenient.

[@Hugh_I]

@@kazriko X300's are neat boxes, I happen to have one too with a 4600G. Maybe Asrock is making an AM5 based successor soon, now that the first APUs are out for that platform? For the laptop solution maybe you can find one with one with a 7840H, the H-variants are the ones with higher power limits.

[@kazriko]

@@Hugh_I It took SO long for them to bring the A300 to the US, and even longer for the X300. We've never gotten the Jupiter X300 either. These boxes are definitely made for the Japanese and other Asian markets, not for us. The framework 16 has the 7840H so that's an option, though it also has an available graphics card.

[@AAYMF]

I have an almost 10 year old pc. Still doing fine for me. Mainly 5820K and an 390X Would this be equivalent to it in performance? I want to sell my bulky power sucking pc and get a small shoebox sized pc.

[@namyun2743]

Aaaaahhhh!!! Wendell said THIIIICCC!!! 🤣

[@chromerims]

6:51 -- Thank you, Wendell/Level1 👍 8x00G APU bioses to be updated to adj Infinity fabric clock speed from 2000 to 2400. Departing from 1:1 ratio (from 2000:6000). Kindest regards, neighbours and friends. For remembering/reviewing later: [Quote] "Okay let's take a closer look at the benchmarks. "First up let's start with Night Raid because there's some stuff that we can talk about under the hood that's happening here with Night Raid. And we look at it. Why have I chosen these three things? "Well you got your Expo profile for the memory where you're using G skill Trident Z 6400 with an expo profile it's designed for AMD. It's THE kit . . . but it's 6,400. "Wait a minute. I thought 6,000 was The Sweet Spot? "Well it kind of is. "But remember this is monolithic die. Infinity fabric clock for my CPU is 2400. AMD is planning to default the in Infinity fabric speed to 2400. "As of today right now, the bioses don't do that. That's a bug; I tripped over that bug, something you should be aware of. "And this is weird because in an APU scenario, it might actually be good not to run the system at the fabled 1:1 ratio, which is sort of weird, right? "Doesn't that make things actually worse for gaming? Well, it makes things better and worse for gaming as we see with our Night Raid. "Because canned benchmarks usually accentuate the differences that you're going to experience way better than actual games. "So that's why we start with Night Raid in this case. "3D Mark Night Raid Expo DDR5 f-clock 2400: 39,239 points. That's quite the spread from just enabling the DDR5 Expo profile on our 6400 kit from 35,000. So that should tell you something. (And by the way this is not the hand tuned 55 nanosecond promised land. This is just changing a couple of settings; this is going basically uh easy mode on this configuration. You can do above 40,000 if you're willing to put in a little bit more work tuning and you've got just the right kit of memory.) "If we look at the breakdown between the six and the 8 core as well as the aforementioned 7700x, this is where things sort of start to differentiate between 7700x with its built-in graphics and what you get from a true Apu: 32,000 to 28,000 between our six core and our 8 core ryzen G Series CPU but only 11,000 from the built-in graphics on the 7700x. "Yes, the built-in graphics on the 7700x is really only meant for basic things basic encoding and very, very basic functions; it's not meant for anything complicated at all and this shows that." [/Quote]

[@Quast]

I'm suprised nobody mentioned this CPU theoretically can already power 2x40Gbps USB-C Ports, though I doubt there are boards currently who can make us of that?

[@RNG-999]

This is why Wendell is the best reviewer. NOBODY ELSE has even TRIED Infinity Fabric overclocking. And here he is pushing 2400??? Reminder 2200Mhz is next-to-impossible on like 99% of all Ryzen 7000 series chips. 2167Mhz causing instability, 2133Mhz might be stable on good silicon.

[@igoresque]

There's no chiplet to chiplet connection on these APUs, of course it's much easier to get higher FCLK

[@reiniermoreno1653]

​@@igoresque I thought they were monolithic

[@nightrove]

I'm likely going to build a mini ITX PC using this APU then buy a GPU later once I find the right deal. I don't play AAA games or eSports so I'll be more than fine!

[@denvera1g1]

If both of my 5700G are able to hit 2466 on an ITX board, i want to see if i can push the 8700G to 3000Mhz IMC for 6000 in gear1, or 12,000 in gear2

[@wvjeepguy8178]

I'd like to try World of Warcraft Classic on one of these. I wonder where it would start to struggle.

[@tommybronze3451]

ok but how those fare for micro-server use ?

[@samserious1337]

As predicted, the 8600G with 8 CUs is more than enough for the RAM bandwidth.

[@gabest4]

Why is there no 1-2GB GDD6X video memory next to the APU? Chiplet style. It would still run everything on low, but at least as fast as a dedicated GPU.

[@catriona_drummond]

Could you not have compared them at least to one graphics card as a reference point? I now need to screenshot your benchmark results and compare them with some entry level GPU results to even get a feel on how they perform in comparison. An Intel Arc 380 is like 125$ in my country, a 580 is under 200$. Radeon RX 6600 is 220$. Are these APU's better or worse?

[@jh77sly]

4:18 - Apply directly to the... Thanks for the Gen X flashback commercial joke. Ahh... good times.

[@JohnWilliams-gy5yc]

Lighting in this episode looks different. What is Wendell's sauce?

[@Matlockization]

I agree with AMD getting off their butt regarding software optimisation. APU's are a win for tablets and laptops.

[@tragicthegarnering3619]

Old thermal paste used to stick tot he cpu's, so hopfuly they fixed that.

[@AlienInSider]

I know from my own experience that an APU not with a stock cooler, but with something like, in my case an Arctic Freezer 34, behaves better than a Riesen 5600 with a stock cooler. Even with an additional video card, despite the smaller cache! Yes, I admit, few users of these APUs consider other cooling, but if you compare in these graphs how an APU behaves with such cooling versus stock, things will be quite interesting. Both in benchmarks and in games... I think, if I'm not mistaken, with AMD thermal sensors and the prediction system, it starts to strictly regulate from the state at about 60% load, which gives a huge tolerance! I'm on the APU 5600G and have over 10 percent increase in values in many of the tests just because of the cooler. And yes, as far as I'm concerned with the above, this APU is capable of running 80 watts and up without getting hot! So far I have described the situation to you, even before I turned on the PBO, which was uncalled for with the stock cooler... Much later, I realized how much the PBO also helps. And as many people find it strange, I'm using maximum bus speed, even though I'm only using 3600 megahertz CL16 DDR4! I would happily switch to the new generation of APU and give my current computer to someone around me :)

[@BReal-10EC]

I just wish AMD would figure out a way to leverage the APU on the die better if you do slap in a dedicated GPU. Back in the APU dark ages, AMD used to allow Asymmetrical Crossfire X between the APU iGPU and the dGPU- with questionable results. If AMD could allow it help with video encoding or something to offload that from the dGPU and CPU. SOMETHING to make the iGPU more than just added CPU heatsink once you add a dGPU. On a positive note, I'm actually more interested in the low end of these new APUs. I suspect PILES of cheap small form factor prebuilds will ship with the 8300G and 8500G APUs and default speed DDR5 ram. Even just a quad core (with 2 threads per core) modern AMD cpu is plenty strong enough for a home computer or office work station, so depending on AMD's bulk pricing to the Dells of the world, these 8300Gs/8500Gs may end up being common. Will those be able to play Rocket League and older games well? GTA V online? Future kids (without gaming consoles/online play subscriptions) want to know! Lol.

[@paulwratt]

with a 4 slot memory motherboard that only really works well with 2 slots occupied (ATM) pushing 16GB over to the AM5 APU is less of a reality. those of us who invested in heavily discounted 8 slot memory motherboards of the AM4 verity at the time of AM5 release are at an advantage (even if the resulting combo produces lower "scores").

[@jeoffermoses8028]

Does the 8700G support ECC RAM?

[@inkysteve]

When the platform is nearing the end they could give us a last hurrah of an 8700g x3d, that could make a substantial difference.

[@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527]

Would like to see you investigate the A.I claims, apparently it really wants as much bandwidth as you can bandwidth (insert no shit Sherlock remark here). I would like to know just how much performance is left on the table for A.I with 6000Mhz memory vs higher clocked memory.

[@mcmormus]

But does it support Plex hw-transcode? And if so, how does it perform?!

[@alexmartinelli6231]

This is what I wanna know. Passively cool this with an nh-p1!

[@blkspade23]

Plex refuses to support AMD GPUs at all in Linux, but I've heard that it should work in Windows.

[@Level1Techs]

Jellyfin, soon, been working on gluing that together as I have time. It will be beastly but doesn't work out of box

[@pranze3484]

Jellyfin on linux is perfect with amd.

[@frankwong9486]

I wonder if they still do pcie burfication, sadly it only have 8 usable now

[@Nick85]

Not enough people are talking about the DDR5 DIMM limitations. Glad to hear you talk casually about it.

[@LiLBitsDK]

and neither are you... WHAT limitations?

[@JordansTechJunk]

4:45 - I feel personally attacked. All my best reviews come from the kitchen!

[@meh78336]

CDPR games like Cyberpunk and Witcher have SteamDeck settings, and so long as you tailor your expectations around 30fps last gen console visuals, it will run them well, even if you change to 1080p Fullscreen instead of the default 800p borderless windowed

[@pangtundure]

They should make like 8cpu/32gpu for like cheap build and line of good mobo.

[@SWOgottaGO]

Go Wendel

[@jandramila]

But... Can it run rocm/pytorch?

[@Tessil666]

Computer goes brrrrrrrrr

[@dandoorma2788]

I was scrolling through the comments on twitter or reddit and this top voted comment was about how expensive these are.......anyway, I didn't put much thought into it because i thought i'll watch a review later about it, from one of my favorite channel L1Tech. NOT even a minute into the video and I saw the pricing of chips...i bursted laughing. They're very well priced. Thank you AMD

[@tonycheung1559]

I play BF2042 on iGPU ;-)

[@johnweaver4253]

Hows about running it against 7800x3d