Lexus RCF vs Mustang GT: $70k Japanese Muscle And $35k American Muscle [Wheel2Wheel]

[@dwnshft]

Special thanks to my Patrons for their support of the channel!

[@chriseaster3674]

Will you please stop calling them heavy cars so what are dodgers

[@dwnshft]

Chris Easter elephants 😂

[@dwnshft]

Chris Magallanes cleverrrrrrr

[@GelatoBebo414]

Wisconsin represent 💯

[@dwnshft]

BigPapi E 414💜

[@xaviervallhonrat530]

Didn’t even bring up the interior of the Lexus. That interior on the RCF is 🙌🏽

[@boogiegames3817]

It looks plain and old

[@davidwade7681]

@@boogiegames3817 Add some carbon fiber to the center console and it's done other then that interior is beautiful especially the seats

[@spencerchristie4000]

@@boogiegames3817 some of us prefer a simple clean look sans colored seat stitching and color matching accents all over the interior. I hate the new wide screen tvs for dash boards, I hate having 15 buttons above my head; this interior to me seems clean and classy. Everyone has their preference.

[@spencerchristie4000]

@kimber green exsctly wel always beat ya, and be able to fix your shit when ya break it too. Have a good one.

[@anthonypearl6698]

BoogieGames still better than the cheap mustang vibe

[@android-ud2nf]

I own a s550 5.0 but honestly if I had the money I’d rather own the Lexus for its reliability and quality

[@DUCK_MY_SICK_BUCKING_FITCH]

im not a huge Benz guy I have a ML55 tho and I was under the assumtion that the number following the letter in a Mercedes designated the engine size my ml55 has a 5.5L V8 in your S class I think you got the same power plant as my ML55 if your is a S550 and not a S 500. This is a serious question im not being a smart ass i genuenly dont know. Thanks!

[@shootersinferno]

Jonny Rocket s550 is another name for this gen of mustang lmaooo

[@android-ud2nf]

Bobby Klifa honestly the 5.0 in the stang is a very solid motor as well. But the rest of the car sacrificed some quality unlike that Lexus.

[@09shelby15]

Lmfao the coyote is as reliable as it gets lmfao. I know guys with 300k miles on them boosted

[@09shelby15]

@Bobby Klifa dumbest thing i have read all day thanks

[@stockish_coyote5647]

Not to mention 70k can get you in a GT350 or base model 20 GT500

[@cchen4754]

Thats IF you can get it at sticker price, no dealer markup :(

[@ruimanuelcarvalho3432]

Still rather have the Lexus

[@SisterMisery]

@@ruimanuelcarvalho3432 🗿

[@kou__d]

@@ruimanuelcarvalho3432 do you have one then

[@al151]

70k for a GT350? You can get the same performance from a 40k camaro ss 1le. 70k can get you a camaro zl1 1le and a winter beater, or a 1lt C8 Z51 with magnetic ride. I can’t justify paying 70k on a GT350.

[@theylive2749]

GSF owner here. I checked out the 5.0 GT while I was considering a GT350. One look at the forums was enough for me. Forums are of course subjective, but for the GT the sheer number and consistency of the issues (e.g. the A10 trans, engine issues) was unlike anything I’ve seen. $45k is used RCF territory. I paid $49k for my GSF. Go look at those forums. Bulletproof.

[@dwnshft]

They Live reliability will always be something Lexus holds over competitors. Any performance car will have issues when pushed and since coyotes are cheap and plentiful people typically beat the piss out of them so we have to take that with a grain of salt like you mentioned. I lean Lexus f models for a lot of reasons even outside this comparison and reliability is only one of the reasons 💜

[@uz1144]

I have a newGSF agree with you. I wanted a fast car but also dependable. None of the Germans are that I could care less about 0-60 numbers as for that matter nothing beats a Tesla. Gsf fit the bill perfectly it’s super rare I see about 10 mustangs anywhere I go. That Lexus v8 is a gem- add in a catback and you got a exotic sounding daily driver.

[@aus10li]

Agreed. I love my GSF and especially with exhaust. It's just so rare and special. Everyone that's seen it, heard it, and rode in it loves it

[@amosthomas7948]

I would pick lexus quality over anything else. How many miles in your GSF when you got it?

[@dwnshft]

@@amosthomas7948 This Lexus was a press car - not sure the mileage, but probably something like 5000

[@leonli9453]

It’s all about your preference though, everyone on here talkin about “ I can make more power with the Stang, and still be cheaper than the Lexus.” Which is true. Some people prefer speed and etc. , but there’s people that are about class. There’s reasons why people buy Lambos, which is expensive as shit for cars that runs low 10s or high 9s in a 1/4 mile. When there’s the ZR1, GT500, Dodge Demon, or the Ford GT that runs faster time for cheaper.

[@julioalmanza8090]

Well said Leon because not everybody wants power or speed. 👏👍👍

[@DanielRuizVideos]

But it’s a Toyota

[@RidingWithBobby]

Glad you think similar to me👏🏼

[@AtH1338]

What? Ford GTs are also high class and extremely expensive. Your other examples were on point but youre wrong about the GT

[@leonli9453]

Will Spencer yeah I forgot the new Ford GT’s were like a million dollars .

[@brandonvernet]

Give me the Lexus any day of the week.

[@Iconhulk]

MUSTANG > TF

[@Aberamentho2010]

Yes agreed the Lexus any day over the mustang. This was a strange comparison. Two entirely different consumers.

[@larryz3985]

Yes..

[@evilnyne]

I’d rather have the Lexus. I love mustangs, don’t get me wrong. But that Lexus is gorgeous.

[@09shelby15]

Mustangs all around better car and better lookimg

[@evilnyne]

MegaMma4life to each their own opinion

[@baseline4102]

@@09shelby15 so dump

[@09shelby15]

@@baseline4102 far from dumb fella lmfao

[@5point0h67]

And not to mention you see a mustang on every block and at every intersection... it’s cool to have something different

[@johnasbury9915]

We’ve had 5 Mustang GTs over the years from ‘99 to 2016... have an RCF now, they’re similar in concept but very different in execution. Love em Both though. Buy what you want and enjoy the hell out of it.

[@harkirt4038]

Which one do you like better?

[@johnasbury9915]

@@harkirt4038 I loved my 2013 Mustang GT, it was the perfect color(Dk Blue w white stripes bumper to bumper), it was more primitive on the inside but was fun and sounded so sweet w the Flowmaster… the RCF is like that car made more luxurious, it’s even faster. I think if they made a manual version it’d be my favorite but this is such a hard question…. 😀

[@WorksProductionFilms]

i've driven both cars but i like my rcf. the mustang is nice to but rcf is more me

[@dwnshft]

WorksProductionFilms totally agree. The Lexus IS more car and you don’t get the mustang stigma and it’s rare. There’s a lot to like about the RCF

[@Midwest..]

I think RCF look better, reliable and I like the interior 😎👍

[@ivangamer8022]

Lexus is joke of a car. Ugly, underpowered, shitty noises, heavy and what about that cartoony F ?

[@90snino89]

@@ivangamer8022 Perfect pfp 😂😂😂

[@Dragon228833]

Illyrian Gamer what car do u drive

[@jeyfs7355]

Eh, I love the noise that coyote makes. Sounds even more amazing when long tube headers are on it.

[@f8rival330]

This guy has it backwards mustangs were pony cars before they were muscle cars.

[@a5oh410]

Ehhh kinda they were muscle cars before they were pony, nowadays pony refers to sports/track wise. But you’re not wrong cause I know the meanings shifted around through the years.

[@a5oh410]

@@wiselinkmarque3947 what I mean is in what it was used for nowadays muscle is associated with straight line you know? Mustangs are versatile their good in a track and drag strip while camaro excels on track and dodge drag.

[@alexdavis6566]

Muscle cars before, than after pony cars. (Depending on the year- more than likely, before, obviously)

[@angelgjr1999]

f8 rIVal Mustangs have always been ponies except for the “gag” mustang 2. They have always been small little cars with a v8 engine. Muscle cars are like the dodge charger and challenger.

[@fread51]

@@a5oh410 no they were not get your s*** straight

[@doorkicker8507]

Why in every conversation when comparing cars. Someone says “ I will just slap a supercharger or a turbocharger and have 700 to 800 hundred horsepower. Really if you think that’s all you have to do. You apparently have NO IDEA. What you’re talking about.

[@DOHCCordia]

Though with the mustang you can do that and still have a ford warranty and be under 42k if you go the cheap route.

[@scottscuthbert6889]

You can with a mustang only thing you really need is a tune and injectors

[@DOHCCordia]

@@scottscuthbert6889 hell you can get 700hp straight from ford for 42k for a base supercharged gt with a warranty.

[@scottscuthbert6889]

@@DOHCCordia true but the new roush Mustangs suck.

[@DOHCCordia]

@@scottscuthbert6889 that's just base gt with the roush 2650. But you can do the whipple setup with a 30k mile warranty as well. But then you have to deal with 100hp more.... lol

[@hawgfankc]

If I'm spending RCF money then I'd get a GT350 and get a truly special driving experience. I'm more than happy with my 2018 Mustang GT PP1 and the only other cars that really interest me are the GT350 and the M2 Competition.

[@dwnshft]

All very special cars you just listed, though if i could offer any thougths, I'd skip the M2 and mak sure you get the M2 Competition. Shares the motor with the M4 and is very stout

[@hawgfankc]

@@dwnshft Oh yeah, it would definitely be the M2 Comp. The tuning capabilities of the S55 are in insane.

[@davidtuyee1405]

@hawgfankc S55 is insane

[@utoobia]

The GT 350 is an outstanding machine, but I took a different route. Bought a 2017 base GT, brand new for $29,500, and put

[@al151]

70k will get you a 45k camaro ss 1le which is at the same performance as a GT350 and a nice winter beater. If it was my money, i would spend it on a lightly used C7 ZO6 manual or a brand new Camaro ZL1 manual.

[@KpopNiDontStop]

performance per dollar can't beat the mustang but damn are they everywhere and regular people are not even impressed at hearing a v8 so I would grab that lexus for sure.

[@speedyhutt]

well the wouldn’t be impressed at hearing the lexus either bc it’s also a 5.0 v8 😂

[@jl2581]

SpeedyHuttJr true but I think what he’s trying to say is that you see 5.0’s everywhere nowadays and the Rcf is unique

[@1LE_Ciko]

@@jl2581 u mean u see ecoboosts everywhere lol like 7/10 2015 stangs and up on the road I see are not v8s

[@mb7762]

Here’s my verdict Mustang- Has one of the best automatic transmissions in sports car history at this price point. -Direct injection and 12:1 compression on pump gas! -one of the most easily moddable suspensions by a long shot, coils and some bushings with a good set of tires and you have a literal race car. -Factory forged internals good up to almost 1000 whp - The most vast aftermarket support out of any car on the market. -name a car that makes 700 whp on pump gas on 10-12 lbs of boost at this price point i’ll wait... The lexus has the cool factor and luxury. No aftermarket support, no tuning support in comparison. All in all a way worse sports car to buy. More of a spirited luxury car, however way better cars at the price point.

[@4EyeFoxbody]

No lie spoken.

[@dumyjobby]

The Lexus is better built and will have very good future resale value. Yes if you modify the car go with the Mustang but you are still stuck with the crappy interior. Also the chassis if the Mustang is not stiff at all and if you get in a crash then good luck because you will need it

[@mb7762]

domitry jobby actually it’s extremely stiff, it just comes with soft springs from the factory. And comparing a mustang GT’s resale to an RCF is pointless, why don’t you compare a used GT500 or a GT350 resale compared to an older RCF or ISF. I’m also pretty sure people don’t buy mustangs for their interiors even though they are very nice for a sub 40k car. You blow your engine in a new mustang 6k coyote motor with unlimited aftermarket availability compared to some over priced wannabee lexus motor that would cost 30k to replace. Also you are comparing a 35k car to one that is almost 80k. Not the best assessment my friend.

[@dumyjobby]

@@mb7762 I am talking about the chassis, it's got nothing to do with the suspension, it's visible on crash testing where the Mustang chassis only got 4 EuroNCAP stars, a gt350 is another matter but the difference is not just because of the brand. Lexus makes quality products, ford makes staff that is good but not best. Same thing with all other products, a chef knife can cost 20 bucks or 200 and both cut quite the same but there is a difference in stile materials and attention to detail. I would personally buy the Mustang because I can have it with a manual but the Lexus is a cool car and will kep it's value really good as the gt 350 does because it's one of the few remaining na engines and there are few around, also the gt350 engine is not a very reliable engine while the Lexus one is as bulletproof as you can have it. Let's just be glad both products are available, and both serve different people, with different pockets and different tastes.

[@mb7762]

Tim yeah how so? I have almost 40k grueling miles on my 10R80, beat the piss out of it and the thing doesn’t skip a beat, I don’t even maintain it. Theres a reflash for the pcm that fixed it’s shifting issues. People are putting over 1000 whp through these transmissions and daily driving the cars.

[@zacharyparis]

The overall build quality and interior of the Lexus is on another level.

[@dwnshft]

zachary paris 💯

[@prietos_chanel]

A friend of mine has an RC-F and the leather interior is so sexy, I drive an IS-F and interior is alright leather too.

[@RobertFalconer1967]

Yes it is. But nowhere near to the tune of twice the cost.

[@DOHCCordia]

Not with the rcf and the mustang. If you had said GS or LC definitely. The RCF interior doesnt feel all that much nicer.

[@lanemorrow5513]

It better be for me to put up with the ugliness of it and double the price not to mention those lovely trips to Lexus for $250 oil changes

[@lifematch]

I saw a 2013 mustang completely rusted from underneath and was going through a major repair. I own 2011 lexus is 250 and it drive like butter smooth.

[@lifematch]

Dean Toma did you buy ur is250 used? Maybe the previous owner completely trashed the car. I have 130,000km in my car, which is around 80,000miles. I bought it used but i paid for car-faxed, and had a mechanic thoroughly checked before buying. In the end of the day, if u dont do basic maintenance like oil change, air filter, only put premium gas (is250 can only take 91octane or above), etc.. then it wont last that long. Still despite that, it should not had problems around 116k miles, so im sure something must have happened.

[@lifematch]

InnerGuide i agree with you. I feel incomplete knowing is350 exist. But the reason why i got is250 is because it was a huge price difference in the used market. Is350 are rare to find, and if u find them, they are really expensive. The is250 2011 awd i bought was $3000 lower than the market price. Because of the demand for is350 is so high, is250 becomes a sleeper car and relatively affordable.

[@lifematch]

Dean Toma im guessing the previous owner didn’t take care of it. Was it clean title or rebuild?

[@lifematch]

InnerGuide well rare in the sense its not easy to find, and when u find it, its much more expensive. At least In Canada that’s the case. Lexus is250 2011 with 124k km (81k miles) i paid $9000 for it. Is350 of that same year and same km cost close to double that price.

[@AtH1338]

Well considering I dont want to pay over 1k a month, mustang it is

[@dwnshft]

hahahh exactly

[@a5oh410]

It’s better trust me lol mustang will not fail to impress you. Just don’t fall into the stereo type of inexperienced mustang drivers.

[@AtH1338]

@@a5oh410 I got one and fishtailed in the rain my 3rd day 😂 luckily I didn't accelerate because I'm not a smooth brain

[@a5oh410]

@@AtH1338 don’t worry I fishtailed trying to test how fast I could go around a corner on stock suspension and A/S tires 😂 definitely got off the gas as I felt it break lose. If anything I may have a smoother brain than you 😂😂

[@DocVanfox]

​@@a5oh410 Was testing my new one last night. Traction off, full send, let's just see what it does. Squirrely girl.

[@RK1FX]

Lexus for me. I've been driving shitty quality cars since my early driving years and never ever again. Quality is top priority for me. The only two American made cars I consider c7 z06 and Viper. Also wanted to add that the c63s can be get in a convertible form and with a edition 1 option, that is so sexy, that you'll need a repellent to get rid of gold diggers.

[@ivangamer8022]

Lexus is joke of a car. Ugly, underpowered, shitty noises, heavy and what about that cartoony F ?

[@deman19901]

Illyrian Gamer ‘’Lexus ranks at the top in quality. Ford is about as shitty as shitty gets. Plus, it looks cheap. My bad, it is cheap.

[@kyledommaschk4467]

has more power than the mustang

[@petrolhead8851]

Deman !9904 Lexus sports cars are a joke!!! Ford has come a long fucking way

[@ivangamer8022]

it's just a toyota with another badge lmao

[@abdulambon5148]

Ngl I see a lot of potential from this guy. Like a lot of people wanna review cars and stuff but like this guy has a lot character when talking and explaining stuff. Good job honestly

[@SoldierGai]

I rather drive the stang. That Coyote sound system is insane.

[@gregpst77]

Have you heard the RCF's V8 in person?

[@RyneLanders]

@@gregpst77 I have. I test drove one last weekend. It has no exhaust noise. Like, none. What it does have is a sound chamber for the engine noise, and you can hear that quite a bit, and it sounds pretty nice when you're really revving it. It's just noticeably different from exhaust because it's strictly engine noise. For reference, my daily driver is a Ferrari 360 Modena and my previous car was a Jaguar XKR supercharged V8, both known for their exquisite exhaust noise. I would agree with the other poster above that the Mustang's exhaust note is better and more noticeable than the RFC stock. I would like to see what an aftermarket option does for the RCF because it's a great car otherwise.

[@saleh-dt3qj]

Sound system...You mean the speakers?

[@mandalorian7964]

Exhaust system?

[@bruh-sc6le]

Saleh Saadi the mustang is loud

[@BWItoATXF]

Great unbiased review. Nail on the head about numbers vs package.

[@dwnshft]

BWI to ATX-F thanks for watching! Glad you liked the video

[@stepside2839]

FORD's Magne-Ride is an option for the Mustang and can be ordered with the Base GT or PP1 package. It is standard on the PP2 package. So, many variables in options can put the car well into the 50k+ column.

[@wespower133]

I dumped my gt350 for an RCF and quite honestly I’ll never look back. Yeah the Shelby sounded cool and handled a little better, but the build quality absolutely sucked, rattles everywhere, cheap plastics everywhere, and don’t even get me started on the oil consumption. I’m extremely happy with the Lexus.

[@jasonlucht9221]

The Lexus will be just fine. It might not have the speed and power of other cars, but they're on a different level regarding reliability and comfort. For me, the Lexus is the best of both worlds. It can perform really well, and is also reliable and drives great. Plus I won't have to worry about it turning into a money pit like all the other cars listed.

[@mikestone8756]

Awesome content @Downshift I own a 2018 Lexus GSF and a Lexus LC Convertible love N/A V8 engines. Reliability, performance driving experience combined with exhaust noise is what the Lexus F Performance Division is all about.

[@dwnshft]

YOU HAVE THE NEW LC CONVERTIBLE?!?!?!😱 I want one sooooo bad

[@Terryshowedup]

Wow thats my dream but I still can't afford even one of them yet

[@rlonzoraddison6921]

Soon as the gentleman presented the Mustang hearing that engine roar towards me I was sold Add performance goodies modest pricing value Me and The Deal walking arm over shoulders yapping it up👍👍🥂

[@mustangtony2933]

And why didn't you test the Performance Pack 1 version instead of the base Stang?

[@dwnshft]

It's not always possible to get spec for spec availability

[@brandonjones8415]

With the Lexus vs it’s competitors, the Lexus will last a lot longer so I’d rather have that imo

[@XFROOS]

@Dean Toma did you bought it new? You are the first owner? What issue did you faced ? Where do you live? Sorry for too many questions i am just curious

[@Trillss77]

@Speed Gate that’s kinda why they stopped making those

[@RedmanLS3]

@@Trillss77 lexus stop making the is250? Lmafo. They are still going strong. Dude just bought a car that were probably beat up by last owners

[@stockish_coyote5647]

I've driven the an RCF, ISF, and new 5.0 Mustang. I ended up getting the new Mustang. Best bang for buck car stock or aftermarket

[@alexdavis6566]

Watch out for that shitty transmission from China. No offense to Ford but they went WAYYY to cheap for such a strong motor

[@vally6853]

Alex Davis glass cannon but🙈 its worth it

[@alexdavis6566]

I might be a hypocrite here,.. considering I'm a mustang fan (V8 5-6 speed) I'd still buy one. ..I guess what I'm saying is watch out how hard you run it. But do what you want, . Obviously lol

[@vally6853]

Alex Davis swap in a Cd009 transmission from a hr Z🤷🏾‍♂️ their transmissions can take 1000+ and ride that horse how its supposed to be ridden

[@alexdavis6566]

Leo ginto I'm thinking a tremec,. There strong and reliable.

[@The1andonlyBYack]

One won’t rattle after 25k miles though... and also won’t last 500k miles.

[@andredossantos1751]

As a mustang owner, it doesn’t rattle after 25k miles, it rattles off the lot

[@4valve4six]

It’s a head tick. 4vs have had that issue for a while. There’s a oil additive that like 70$ for a small bottle you put in the engine and it will silence it.

[@minhgtr]

lol I love my mustang but yes I had a few issues with it already but I cant afford the lexus. I think the mustang looks better despite its quality or there lackof

[@4EyeFoxbody]

@@4valve4six marvel mystery ?

[@SpiderCollector000]

@@4valve4six My Mark VIII had the same tick, but ran fine even past 315k when I sold it to someone who in turn parted it out and pulled the motor to use in their Mustang Cobra. Its more of an annoyance than a problem thankfully!

[@CarlosSanchez-ot8rk]

i like how this guy got right into the cars, any other youtuber and their like before we get into the video, make sure to like and sub and buy my merch

[@dennisprow7576]

I have that exact spec RC F and let me tell yall, it isn't quite as fast but it is such a wonderful driving experience. And the sound it makes with an aftermarket exhaust is insane

[@KLRGT500KR]

Good review. I own a 2016 Lexus RCF with the carbon fiber/TVD track package. While the weight shavings are about 25 lbs in total. Not a lot, but the carbon fiber roof lowers the center of gravity a lot especially when going fast through turns where the weight at the top makes the most difference. Having said that, the TVD was only available with the carbon fiber package in previous years. Now, they have it as a stand-alone option in 2020. The $65K RCF comes with LSD, but TVD makes the car so much more fun with amazing and quick steering response. Sport+/manual mode and TVD in slalom mode on city, small roads are the sweet spot. Also, the transmission, steering get quicker as you rev it into high rpms as it assumes you are on the race track so it gives the fastest shifts in high rpms. The engine is designed to rev. To explore the limits, you have to really rev it like a S2000 within inches of its nearly 7500 rpm rev limit and the thing is explosive out of turns while staying in the 6000 rpm to just under 7500 rpm. It is not a bottom end torque monster like the turbo cars so you need to rev it like a small 4-cylinder high revving engine. also, putting a full aftermarket exhaust really makes it properly enjoyable since the stock exhaust is way too quiet and restrctive for emission reasons. Cheers!

[@dwnshft]

KLRGT500KR excellent! Thanks! Great points and thanks for watching!

[@davidwade7681]

I heard the tvd option makes the car a bit heavier

[@twfinc6855]

can you get that carbon fibre roof on a 35k stang? lol lots of ford pumpers here for sure..

[@KLRGT500KR]

@@twfinc6855 LOL. It is so much more than that. You clearly have no clue. The car overall build quality, fit, finish, materials and refinement is completely on a different planet. That is why I spent a lot more on an RCF. You get what you pay for at least in my case.

[@arunly9061]

Lexus for me,had mine for 7years,afcoz not rcf, but was the most reliable car I ever had,didnt seen any problems with it,service in time and that's it,plus it's very comfortable car for long travels

[@Agueart]

The money per power statement is very true, that's why people keep crashing them.

[@v8vince761]

Now that's where you're wrong buddy The one's that crashes are 2005-2014 mustangs because of the rear differential being live axle and 2015+ probably Didn't turn off traction Control

[@Agueart]

People have been crashing cars since before 2005. Launching a live axle car isn’t that hard and it shouldnt play that big of a factor in crashing while doing a burn out. People also crashed plenty of 03 cobras and F bodies before everyone had a video camera in their pockets. Low end torque with a manual and an inexperienced driver is a recipe for disaster. Mustangs get a bad wrap cause they’re cheap and the Mustang has been the best selling car in its class practically every year its been out.

[@v8vince761]

@@Agueart any mustangs pre 2015 had live axles even Chevy only recently change their diff to Independent and suspension has a play on this too doing donuts/burnout with a soft front is not a good idea which is probably usually the case with the crashes having a big low end torque is really not a bad thing its just something you need get used to fast when driving v8s so I don't see how its the case

[@Agueart]

@@v8vince761 People have been drag racing, doing burn outs, donuts and drifting on solid axles for decades. You don't see how a low skill driver with an abundance of low end torque could get into trouble? People crash Corvettes, Vipers and Chargers and Challengers all the time. There's so many videos of both of those all over the internet, all those cars have an IRS. People crash cause they often don't respect the amount of power they have. A 12/13 second car is a lot for a novice driver.

[@5dirty583]

Why didn’t you do a race between them ...

[@beastp9569]

Right

[@mr.anonymous.4012]

Smh for that 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@dwnshft]

I don’t own the mustang and Lexus didn’t clear a race for RCF. I need more subs and views to do races

[@5dirty583]

Downshift I’ll sub and support , so I can see this race lol

[@Renzo.Fortini]

Downshift you have over 200k views on this , now can you do a video of them racing ?

[@JAY-D33]

And that center console looks like a 2010 downgrade

[@iandalonso]

FYI the RCF has depreciated much faster than the GT, so on the used market the price delta is really not as much, more like 10-15K.

[@dwnshft]

That's correct

[@snapunderst33r]

II like this video for the reminder it is. It is easy to be the armchair car enthusiast and pick on the Mustang or Corvette for not being as premium and polished as ze Germans, or Lexus in this regard. In reality, money is a significant factor for most people and theres something to be said about the performance per dollar offered by the domestics. Even if they aren’t always at the top of our wishlists

[@dwnshft]

Brian Clayton this was a great suggestion Brian thank you! You’re totally right about about the performance per dollar

[@tristanjory3942]

You mentioned that the limited slip is new, limited slip is old the independent rear is newer. That’s what makes it “better” than the old one’s

[@dayadam16]

I drive an 2019 rcf 10th anniversary and there no comparison to the quality of interior and the reliability of it. The sound is even more amazing. Not hating on the mustang but i edge out bolt ons gt's. And the looks i get or people talking to me about the car wouldnt happen in the mustang cause there a dime a dozen versus 1 of 240 cause the color. If were going off this type of comparison just get a used camaro 2002 ws6 and the value of performance per dollar will be better than a new gt. People have to stop doing these silly comparisons when we all know civics will most likely beat these when it comes to dollar to perfomance ratio.

[@anthonypearl6698]

I agree man. It’s like comparing a civic type R with a Mercedes c class 😂

[@stevenchacon4062]

Rather get the RCF. If you get it used, it’s basically the same price at 40k-45k. And it would still be more reliable than the mustang.

[@ericvasquez2822]

why would spend 70k on the lexus when the gt350 is just way more car

[@loneelephant8430]

Not for reliability though

[@ErectileSceptile]

@@loneelephant8430 Mustangs (newer ones) are pretty reliable. It's not a Toyota (or in this case, Lexus) but it's infinitely better than German brands (excluding porsche, porches are brick shit houses. I literally COULD not kill my boxster and I redlined it every shift

[@Dynoids]

If the RCF wasn't so expensive and had a manual It'd be perfect.

[@austinash2124]

You should try not having the AC on when you test drive so you can get full 100% power for 1st impression experience

[@dwnshft]

Austin Ash I would if I were on a track and doing numerical measurements, but on the road from an experience perspective the difference is negligible

[@Pube83]

That's a good way to destroy an AC compressor, too, mashing cars to redline with it engaged.

[@rolexr]

Both are cool and great cars - it is like you compare a TIMEX against a ROLEX....both show you the time...but in a different way and quality!

[@dwnshft]

lol love it

[@uz1144]

Great review. Always loved the mustang. Have a GSF and that car is insanely fun and can haul around kids.

[@prietos_chanel]

I've always liked Mustangs too, theirs exhaust notes are f*#$ing nice, I drive an IS-F!

[@MH-im4oh]

I found the ride on the Mustang GT is much more refined and suitable for everyday driving than the F. I’ll pick the GT

[@Lgirtfhdzxfft]

When it comes to production quality control there s no competitor for Lexus period... I haven't drove these two specific cars but I drove Lexus from early 90s and a 2015 Ford Fiesta 😆

[@user-eh4xj4lm1p]

Got my 2015 base model GT in August 2019. It came with recaro seats,6 speed manual, Magnaflow Cat back and H Pipe, also came with a Injen Cold Air Intake for the price of $21,000

[@drodriguez1724]

How many miles?

[@Chev_chevo]

I got my RCF, came with rr racing exhaust, ppe headers, rr intake, Vossen wheels, and the track package for 22k

[@TheJosesrt4]

I'll take the Mustang GT

[@drmanhattan5219]

Cuz you can't afford the RC F 😂

[@mrsantosjon]

@@drmanhattan5219 I cant afford both 🥺

[@carboydorifutoparty3976]

@@drmanhattan5219 well. If he took it for a performance pov he saved 20k and would probably be sitting near 1000hp of the rest of the cost of the RCF.

[@senorpepper3405]

@@carboydorifutoparty3976 could just get a base gt500 for around 70

[@carboydorifutoparty3976]

@@senorpepper3405 that too.

[@joeyoung1498]

Two totally different cars other than the 5.0. If I was poor I'd go with the stang but if you got some money and like luxury then jump on the Lexus. I owned an IS250C and loved it. Great solid car that never broke down. Also loved the hardtop convertible. It never leaked or gave me any problems.

[@kidodakid8861]

If I had the money, I'll go with a bmw m4 or an e63 amg

[@anthonyg1417]

@@kidodakid8861awfu cars no resale value and worse never reliable

[@_MIKIMOTO_]

Ok but the real question is which one looks sexier on your driveway 🙃

[@dwnshft]

RCF eery. single. time. hahahah

[@_MIKIMOTO_]

Downshift yea bro def

[@deman19901]

If the driveway is in a trailer park, then it’s the Mustang of course.

[@Pube83]

@@deman19901 Hahaha or the rental car lot.

[@avontewilliams1902]

There’s a shop in Virginia that specializes in supercharging Lexus’s (most likely F’s)

[@antwontwontwon2378]

What shop

[@johnprice607]

rr racing?

[@avontewilliams1902]

John Price yup

[@DavidValdezBigWaveDave]

twin screws or centrifugal?

[@GetKinetic1one]

Pennsylvania not Virginia. RR-RACING.COM

[@scbird1]

Well I have A 2015 Mustang GT and it has lived with a 727 supercharger for over 5 years with 0 issues. The only time I ever saw a Lexus was in my rear view mirror!

[@hanyolo120]

We are so spoiled nowadays I don't think people realize it, the car has over 450 horsepower and 0-60 in 4 seconds and his reaction is "its ok" just think back 10 years people.

[@dwnshft]

hahah true

[@javyramirez9734]

We dont live in the past. Mustangs na are running high 10s low 11s. The rcf is just winning the race to 500K miles.

[@renegarcia7591]

For the price the RCf’s interior looks very cheap and outdated even the mustangs interior looks much more attractive to the eye

[@nerdnec]

To the eye but not to the hands

[@davidwade7681]

Lol

[@renegarcia7591]

Call me daddy shit even to the hands these new generation mustangs don’t have the plastic feels that the older mustangs do

[@jeremyorf3820]

Dudes using words like “extrapolate” but doesnt know what a torque converter is..

[@baazooka2]

Yeah bro the pp2 it's got magnamag suspooney and some . Uhhhhh other stuff

[@CrazeyP]

It really depends if you want more luxury or more raw feeling of the car

[@5dwolf22]

I wouldn’t get a lexus if i wanted to luxury lol

[@CrazeyP]

TheProMode reliable luxury

[@jldude84]

If you want luxury, you buy a luxury car,not the RC-F lol

[@chucka187]

70k price point there’s a lot to pick from. 35-40k the mustang is a pretty good bang for the buc. One thing I don’t like about the Lexus IS the clunky sounding paddle shifts. Other than that sounds great and looks refine.

[@skykao1197]

Excellent video and insights into the driving experience and characteristics of both cars! I love what you said about the characters of cars that you just don't get from reading numbers on a spec sheet. Keep up the good work, man! You have yourself a new subscriber!

[@dwnshft]

Sky Kao awesome thanks for watching and glad you liked the video!

[@tc-og7qy]

Damn.. how could you not talk about the Mark Levinson sound system in the RCF. Try as you may, you’ll never be able to reproduce that in the mustang. This is coming from a 12 mustang GT and 12 Lexus Is350 fsport owner.

[@F_________________]

I’ll be honest, the 10 speed is a better option right now. The 15-17 manuals were more aggressive and sturdier. The 18+ MT82 manual transmission has longer gears and can break shift forks under heavy load. I’m a manual guy, but the Tremec is the transmission you want if you’re getting a manual transmission. The new Mach 1 will have this as an option so that will be interesting.

[@dwnshft]

Good note! I think the tremec is the trans in the Gt500 as well, yes?

[@6.2Slomaro]

You realize the Mac 1 is just getting the tremec 3160 which is great but no where near the 6060. You can find the 3160 in the GT350 and 6th gen Camaro V6/4cylinder. Ford should have just went with the 6060. I think that would be the ultimate 5.0 Mustang.

[@F_________________]

@@6.2Slomaro That is true. As far as I know, the 6060 isn't an option for the mustang right now, but have heard it's stout and a good swap option.

[@richardscott921]

I think the mustang pp2 would be a better buy than the mach 1..i personal have an 18 mustang pp1 manual and i have 0 complaints.

[@6.2Slomaro]

Richard Scott have you broke your shift forks yet? My buddy with his 18 is already on his 3rd trans. And another friend with a 19 has no issue at all.

[@HyLifeSociety]

I respect mustangs I just don’t think I’d want to own one, everyone sees themselves in a certain car. If you’re a car guy your car is basically an extension of you, and the RCF is definitely me, specially as I continue modifying to my liking. We have a c63s too and I get more people asking about the Lexus then the Benz. The other thing to mention is the Lexus community is by far the best community I’ve experienced, in the forums, in person, and on social media, Lexus peeps are so positive and supportive.

[@thegreat8876]

A Lexus will always be more refined and sophisticated.

[@ericvillarreal9625]

Don’t forget over priced!

[@thegreat8876]

Eric Villarreal Hence, the price.

[@thegreat8876]

Two imbeciles replied.

[@gregpst77]

@@ericvillarreal9625 but they hold their value better than any other brand out there.

[@eldontsoi]

great video! i have a s550 and im thinking about the rcf.

[@apocalypse487]

You're paying $35000 extra for quality and reliability

[@LavonteRay]

Mustangs are reliable. The only thing you’re paying for is better interior.

[@Rizziculous]

Lavon'te Ray TV better everything to be honest

[@LavonteRay]

Ricardo Castro-Garcia In terms of the Lexus? If that’s the case I’d have to disagree. You’re simply paying for the interior and luxury name brand. That’s it.

[@fxhim7]

@@LavonteRay 100% agreed

[@LavonteRay]

Fahim TRG Thank you. We don’t even have to discuss that at 70k you’re in the range of the 2020 GT500 or that you can easily get a turbo or supercharger and hit 750hp+ for the GT and still be lower than the cost of the Lexus. But as I said, luxury name brand.

[@DavyDave1313]

I wish you could get a mustang gt for $35k. Base is around $42k which in reality after bs dealer fees and taxes is closer to $47k; fully loaded it’s around $55k after fees more like $61k. It’s still cheaper for sure. I’m guessing the RCF after taxes and fees is in the $80k realm

[@bm3turbo10]

35k mustang has very cheap interior and good looking mustang gt cost more than 50k

[@sinappanis]

Agreed. I'm not sure where he gets the price tag of 35k for a new GT. You'll be hard pressed to find a low mileage used one for that.

[@shawnprickett4099]

sinappanis I bought my 17 GT premium last year with 17K for $27K so it’s not far fetched and I got a certified used so I have a better warranty than a new one

[@bm3turbo10]

@@shawnprickett4099 we are talking about brand new price and plus ford depreciate like crazy 😜

[@yardhostler3728]

@@sinappanis brand new 5.0 base model starts around 36k, which planet do you live in??

[@DOHCCordia]

@@sinappanis you can get a pure base gt for 35-36k pretty commonly. Granted most are honestly mid 40s.

[@4valve4six]

You forgot to mention a 18-20 5.0 with the ten speed runs mid 10s with E85, longtubes and a tire

[@h8su1]

i work on fords. after seeing what ford is made of i rather spend extra on lexus

[@Anthony-dk7de]

1:54 cap, you haven’t heard it with a nice exhaust plus no mufflers

[@cashmoney7660]

As a GT 350 owner I love my car and I just like to stand there and look at it Why is no one talking about that god awful RCF spindle grill. I guess everyone is getting used to that now LOL at least the Lexus owners don’t have to look at it while they’re driving it

[@dosepulveda1]

My thought exactly! I think I remember Jeremy Clarkson calling them “vacuum” front ends lol

[@serega13]

If you are just going by power for the dollar numbers, there's nothing that can beat Mustang GT. Where Mustang falls short is the interior which looks to be out of a 15k car from the 90s. The Lexus interior is punching above its weight and is a work of art, so are the carbon fiber roof and active spoiler and torque vectoring diff. It all comes down to if you are looking for the best bang for a buck or something that's much more unique and special.

[@DallasTechie]

If your priorities are quality build and refinement ? Lexus, hands down.

[@Tom-yj6mt]

I'll deal with the gaps not being perfect for half the price. Not to mention the mustang looks a lot better

[@tedsirlouis9038]

If you want a car that will last get a mustang lol

[@larryryan7060]

I am actually looking at buying a new car and these are the two cars I am looking at. I have owned a 98 and a 13 mustang gt and they were great cars but I really like the styling of the rc 350. But the question I have to ask myself is what will I be happy with 5 years from now as I tend to keep cars for awhile and more over what will be worth more and I believe that the answer is the Lexus hands down

[@dwnshft]

Correct 😂💯

[@stephendibari5010]

I came into this video for these reasons and i’ve always loved Mustangs I bought a new 96 GT 4.6 L but only kept it for two years so I never got any issues with reliability although the rear defroster did stop working within a few months of ownership. After reading so many comments about mustangs and reliability issues I’m definitely looking towards the RCF as a retirement gift for myself in five years looking at a good one owner or possibly 2 owner well-maintained low mileage 2015 to 2017 I currently on a 2002 ES 300 and it’s one of the best cars I’ve ever owned reliability is outstanding fit and finish is unparalleled, best build quality of the ES generations.

[@brightlife3691]

The rcf is a sport luxury not muscle car. Japanese muscle is the gtr.

[@enflamedpapaya8592]

It’s awesome how nearly 400 tq is considered lackluster these days

[@dwnshft]

Hahhah it's all relative

[@Nguyen2fold]

I remember watching a guy buy a new 2019 mustang GT for almost $50k. Smh 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@silver01mustanggt47]

Any GT that would be 50k would likely be a GT1 pack or PP1 package

[@lanemorrow5513]

Have you priced new cars lately?? Especially anything north of 450hp??

[@turbopickle9720]

@@lanemorrow5513 crazy to pay 50k for a mustang. They are cheaply built and plentiful.

[@seanlowrey5239]

Not that crazy if you want all of the options. Some people want cheap and a fast motor. Other's want all the options and the fast motor. Nice thing is that you can be either one in the Mustang.

[@Nguyen2fold]

@@seanlowrey5239 sorry nothing nice about that interior and the cheap quality plastics. That doesn't get upgraded in the packages..

[@SuperGates32]

It’s the RCF interior that really makes it the best!😊

[@nathanquillen297]

You don't need the PP2 option on the Mustang to get the magnaride suspension. PP1 has that available option if you wanted. Also the 10 speed transmission with the optional 3.55 gears is an absolute animal, plus its a hell of a lot faster than the 6 speed manual even with the 3.73 factory gears. Only thing you should've done was lined them up side by side and did a drag and roll race and see what performance the $35-40k mustang gets you vs. the Lexus. If your worried about what the interior looks like more than the actual performance aspect of a car then you just want a car that gets you from point A to point B. And lastly if I had the 70k to spend or even 50k it wouldn't be on either car. I'd get myself a used GT-R, or maybe an Audi TT-RS

[@toms_garage]

Just found this video after watching the pistonheads one. I can’t believe the price difference in USA vs UK. $35k vs £43k on mustang never mind the huge RCF price difference

[@colehicks4993]

I’ll take the Lexus my Shelby gt500 was falling apart as it aged .

[@petrolhead8851]

What year gt500 did you have?

[@K3nnyAss]

I’ve had 4 fords and none of them were very reliable. My 2016 Fiesta was the longest lasting of them all but broke down on me after 37 k miles with a transmission problem. I didn’t hesitate to sell it because I’d had enough of the same problem with the other 3, but I really miss it.

[@s3ighb0t58]

I've had my current mustang gt for 8 years now and not once it broke down on me.. Just phenomenal.. Previous mustang only had for 2 years so can't really judge it for never giving me a single problem either.. Had a Chevy SS before that and it was a complete disaster.. But yes the RCF is a different level of refinement, would love to own one, just not over a gt500. Oh and I live in Dubai where temperatures hit 120+ during summer.. And summer is extremely long..so that has to mean something

[@GyroPyro121212]

Big DODdeee The Ford Dual Clutch 6 Speed Automatic was notorious for failure. Had you gotten a 5 speed manual Fiesta it would’ve had zero issues. My sister had a 2011 SE 5 speed that was plenty reliable before she got her 2016 Fiesta ST. My dad’s 2000 Focus ZX-3 daily beater has 276,000 miles on it and he still drives it every day. Our 2002 Focus SVT had 106k on it when we sold it. My 1994 Mustang GT has 168k on it and runs great. My 2018 F-150 is around 26k miles and runs great. My dad had multiple 1994-1995 Mercury Sables (Ford Taurus) that all ran well over 100k as did both of my grandparent’s Tauruses. My dad now has a 2016 Fusion S with over 110k miles on it and it runs perfect. My grandfather has a 2007 Fusion that runs 100% as well. Ford’s are just as reliable as anything else, you were just unlucky.

[@K3nnyAss]

GyroPyro12 unfortunately I had a dual clutch. But I really miss the Fiesta because it was really fun driving it and handled very well and the mpg was pretty great. I’d say it’s probably the best small car if only Ford can address the issue. If they can do it, I’ll definitely buy another fiesta.

[@Pamsophydee]

I know you’d pay more for a LC but there’s just something the RCF. Every time I see one on the road I take a double look 👀 🔥

[@morgandrives]

The RCF would be nice, but I’ll stay with my Mustang because of the Manual transmission. #savethemanuals

[@dwnshft]

Morgan Gregory you’re fighting the good fight

[@isfrozen3103]

If there was a new manual and not the mt82 i might have bought a mustang

[@shiftautomotive854]

but the manuals in the mustang are trash

[@Honja999]

@@shiftautomotive854 honestly. I personally think the manual mustang's are slower lol, my uncle isf eats those manual mustang's all day but the auto ones can keep up a bit

[@morgandrives]

Car Guy So far mine serves spirited highway driving well. Seems to be a problem for launches and such. If that is your goal, the Auto is better for sure.

[@mikeanthony235]

Lexus RCF ALL DAY! Looks better, feels better, & its a neck breaker right out the lot. I have a stock rcf & i get compliments & looks everywhere i go.

[@ekraincg]

love how the subtitles say [Music] whenever the engine sings

[@dwnshft]

Eric K Hahahaha does it seriously?! 😂 I mean it’s not wrong

[@Texas_Road_Warrior]

In stock trim the mustang puts down 10-20hp more depending on the dyno... the 460hp ford claims is a little conservative 😂

[@roybarmo7379]

Sry man, that lexus doesnt have a good v8 sound, both mercedes and bmw have better sounding engines even that mustang got better sounding engine

[@cookiebetts6341]

roy barmo because they put like 7 fucking mufflers. I have a LS430 and I’m pissed! That I can’t hear the damn thing. Gotta give it to them. They make their cars silent like a hybrid. After all they are luxury cars. Planning on straight pipe soon

[@yashpaulsodhi9040]

🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@prietos_chanel]

So true and for sure they sound like hybrids with stock exhaust lol, I put a true dual exhaust on my IS-F and I'm in love with the sound now!

[@Pube83]

Just search for a clip of one with an exhaust, they sound fantastic! From the factory they're lexus quiet.

[@BilalAli-yl1oj]

That mustang with a few simple bolton upgrades with out run anyone of those other cars.

[@ohmahgawd2412]

Bilal Ali omg really!?

[@MrAPM316]

Why the hell would I spend 70k for a car that can barely compete with a base model mustang. And I strongly feel the rcf interior is overrated. Get a better spec mustang and call it day

[@RHSE123]

Alton minor Why would anyone buy a new base model 4 or 6 cylinder mustang when you can get an EVO 9 or 10??.. An EVO will run circles around those 4 and 6 cylinders.. Everyone has different taste, when it comes to cars...

[@DoctorGaga87]

RH SE Evos are pieces of junk.. 9s and 10s are like 20-25k for an old car with shit features. I’m good.

[@a5oh410]

@@RHSE123 even the 4 cylinder mustangs are better than a evo I’m sorry there’s just more modularity and performance to them when compared to an evo. But this video was comparing a v8 not a 6 or 4 cylinder

[@RHSE123]

@@DoctorGaga87 "With shit features"....?? 🤣😂 You might be right man.. but on my opinion, the main thing I look for in a car is the engine and transmission.. But like I said.. we all have different taste..

[@RHSE123]

@@a5oh410 "Even 4 cylinder mustang are better than a evo"... better??.. on what??.. To start... I've driven and worked on all 5 cars(Mustang 8/6/4cyl. and Evo 9/10)... Second... In my opinion...a 4 or 6 cylinder mustang... is NOT a REAL mustang, let alone a muscle car.. it's basically an embarrassment to call it that.. even a with a turbo on a mustang(4/6)..any JDM will run circles on that thing, without even adding the Evo.. And to your last sentence.. "This video was comparing an 8... not a 4 or 6.." Can you guess why??... Humor me..

[@kc3747]

Thank you for doing this video hats off

[@dwnshft]

💜

[@stephmoney43]

We all know Ford is the o.g. when it comes to 5.0 liter engines. Consider this you could by a supercharger package for around 7-10k slap it on and you'll have 600-700 whp beast for way less than the price of that rcf. But hey if value for your dollar is of no concern I guess the rcf is for you.

[@scottscuthbert6889]

You only need around $3500 to make the mustang make that power

[@stephmoney43]

@@scottscuthbert6889 I'm not saying that's not possible but it wouldn't be easy. Anyway if true it only proves my point more. The stang is just an over all better value. Which is why I own one. Plus it's always fun to gap cars double the price of mine. It tends to make people salty.

[@JH-mt3pp]

My uncle trades Stang GT every year. He has for years. The Stang may be fast but make no mistake....It is not a Lexus in any way, shape, or form. We have an RX 350. Lexus is quality inside and out.

[@Midwest..]

Lexus sport, safety, reliability, luxury I'll take bulletproof RCF with RR Racing Supercharger 😎👍🤗

[@ivangamer8022]

Lexus is joke of a car. Ugly, underpowered, shitty noises, heavy and what about that cartoony F ?

[@Midwest..]

@@ivangamer8022 Have you ever drive or own a Lexus? 😂 when you go Lexus you never go back.

[@Midwest..]

@@ivangamer8022 Lexus, sport, luxury, reliable 😎👍 if I just want speed then Nissan GTR a V8 Killaz

[@ivangamer8022]

@@Midwest.. lol the car maker famous for the biggest fail in car history... the LFA

[@germanv8s877]

Illyrian Gamer reliable 480Hp

[@F_________________]

I’m obviously a little biased here, but I do like the Lexus. For the power it’s making out of a 5.0, it’s got the potential for some power. From a performance perspective, I think the mustang goes further with the transmission it has. The 10 speed is a really amazing transmission, especially if you’re going towards the aftermarket. If you’re the kind of guy that buys a car and leaves it alone, I think the Lexus might be a better package for you though.

[@dwnshft]

Thanks for commenting Kyle! I've read a few of your notes on the the video and you're totally spot on with a lot of things.

[@stefanb.5154]

Have you seen Ford’s track record lately? That cars gonna leave someone stranded on the side of the highway with their transmission issues. The new explorer and aviator may be selling quickly, but they’re going right back to the dealership with complaints of the transmission.

[@jadonschantz9142]

You aren’t supposed to accelerate while downshifting anyways

[@guyrouillier]

Perhaps not what you meant, but downshifting to accelerate is very common. If you're cruising along on top gear at 1500 rpm and want to pass, you'll typically downshift to get back into the power band then accelerate to pass.

[@NoBody-tz4fb]

Huh? What if I'm in 6th gear and want to hit it so I drop 5th and nail it?

[@guyrouillier]

@@NoBody-tz4fb Exactly. I have a 2012 Mustang V6, and 65 in 6th gear is about 1500 rpm. That's way below the power band (where the engine develops the most horsepower). So, if I simply press the accelerator, the car will accelerate but *very* slowly. But if I drop down to 5th (or even 4th in an emergency), the revs jump up and the car accelerates much more quickly.

[@bradchoi9679]

Should have taken some corners in the Mustang. May not be as composed as the Lexus, but I'm sure it would have been a LOT of fun!