Liam Newton on the unsung genius of 10cc

[@ianharris4232]

In 1977 Eric Stewart and his wife Gloria rocked up to my studio in Primrose Hill. At that time I was hand painting murals and roller blinds and Eric had just had a house built in Dorking. I designed and painted blinds for many of the rooms ( for his ‘den’ I painted a Ferrari badge on the blind ) . The house was called Paloma...perhaps a nod to Jonathan King! Decent charming man. So much talent in 10cc, great story. 😎👌

[@davidheafield1436]

When I first met my wife she lived on Box Hill near Dorking and she regularly pointed out the “Deceptive Bends “ road sign to me that was there to warn motorists of the bendy , twisty road ahead. It’s still there to this day

[@regvarney5582]

Sadly it isn't but I do remember it on the A24 for the Mickleham bends

[@rozzgrey801]

Great interview, 10cc are, ironically, the best band in the world, and Somewhere in Hollywood is their masterpiece, perfectly evoking the adorably absurd magic of that contrived, commercial yet fascinating fantasy world.

[@PeterStrachanMusic]

I am a huge fan of 10cc. Still think they don't get enough recognition..

[@diggerthegroundhog8799]

Bought the book a year ago. Still going through it. About half way now. it's wonderful. Learned so much

[@kennethtaylor541]

Wonderful episode, Liam's such an engaging chap. First up though, are my eyes deceiving me or is Mark wearing black rather than blue? This is huge news. Here's a fun fact about Strawberry Studios. You mentioned Neil Sedaka, and he recorded "Love Will Keep Us Together" there, then a few years later at the same studio Joy Division recorded "Love Will Tear Us Apart". Great to hear Liam mention Tim Burgess' brilliant listening parties too. Anyone here who likes 10cc and hasn't heard the "Sheet Music" and "The Original Soundtrack" ones should delve in, wonderful insights given by Kevin Godley. Bit of a mystery to me why Tim hasn't been on these WIYE episodes. The joy that guy has provided to music fans around the world with over 500 listening parties during lockdown has been truly amazing.

[@adrianmills7729]

Wonderful interview. Went to buy the book immediately, then discovered its $50 in America!!! Too rich for my blood. Wish there had been a kindle version at a more affordable price. Sheet Music has been a favorite of mine for over 40 years!

[@PerfDayToday]

Great session, one of my favorite bands. Look forward to reading the book.

[@grantryder5463]

Excellent guest! I first heard "I'm Not In Love" at the notorious Three Fishes pub in Kingston on Thames. Martin was the resident DJ. He never talked between records and usually played mostly progressive American music not heard on UK radio through rock concert speakers at extremely high volume. To hear that track at that level of amplification was stunning to say the least. He also played a lot of that album breaking with his traditional music output. It just shows what a wide appeal 10cc had.

[@vernonallen3370]

That was a pleasure to watch and listen to. 10cc remain one of my most favourite bands. Somewhere in Hollywood is indeed a high point in my opinion. I think this book is going on my Christmas list.

[@tommcmanamon8327]

10cc were great band. They still tour now with Graham Gouldman. I saw them many times in Manchester, and once at Knebworth, where they played on the card with the Rolling Stones and Lynard Skynard. Great times.

[@sdry1688]

Squeeze, XTC, Bare Naked Ladies, The Divine Comedy, 10CC - clever clever lyrics coupled with kick ass melodies

[@rocksteady9115]

Xtc absolute genius songwriters

[@musicloverUK]

Agreed. And yet young people today haven't heard of them! I have discovered a band called Divorce (previously called Megatrain, equally good) which have out of the ordinary songs. Worth checking out and they have a UK autumn tour starting soon. They also released a song called John which is only available on Bandcamp as a single under the Hockley Hustle charity banner.

[@candelise]

Aside from XTC the rest sound like meat and potatoes.

[@davidcopson5800]

And you didn't even mention Paddy McAloon.

[@jeremywilson8040]

Excellent chat and underrated band - David, I like that you ask the questions we really want to know the answers to......are they still speaking and did they make any money!

[@blakes8126]

Such an interesting and informative interview. Thoroughly recommend the book.

[@nbnewman]

I caught this podcast on KZbin the other day and very much enjoyed it. I remember seeing 10cc on Top of the Pops in April/May 1973 'playing' The Dean and I, and my jaw dropped in surprise and delight. I was definitely a Godley/Creme man. How can one get a copy of the book that is selling for funny money on Amazon?

[@jamesburbidge7056]

I did a commercial with Kevin Godley directing (I was a location chef)...we had rhubarb and banana crumble as dessert...I served Kevin the crumble and he took a bite and said "This is better than wanking!"...I knew the story of how 10CC got their name but I had to bite my tongue 😀😀

[@charmandrews]

I had forgotten Lol showing me the Gizmo at the Cali in Dunstable, it was in a very prototype form. Don't know why he wanted to spend the time with me except that I had shown interest during their soundcheck.

[@charmandrews]

My mate, who was there at the time, reckoned it was a roadie not Lol. He drove himself to the gig.

[@jackharriet4814]

If 'I'm Not In Love' multi-tracking is so easy to do these days... why don't we hear masterpieces like that all the time... there's no substitute for talent.

[@rocksteady9115]

Songwriters like Stewart and Gouldman don't come around all the time is the reason

[@Phoebedumplings]

Somewhere in Hollywood and Old Wild Men are 2 of my desert island disc tracks.....down on the casting couch, a star is going to be born,,,,,,,timeless, lights action sound, roll em

[@davidcopson5800]

Lord have mercy!

[@gwangi64]

Interesting interview, I'll be ordering Liam's book. It's not the first 10cc biography - I used to have George Tremlett's enjoyable book which told the story of the band up to 1976.

[@davidsanderson5918]

15:36 No WAY is The Greatest Soundtrack their peak. That's probably a journalistic point of view judging things upon its industry success but musically, artistically, track for track and as a whole, the album 'SHEET MUSIC' is their masterpiece. I'm biased perhaps because it's a childhood favourite but I'm pretty sure a consensus of 10cc fans including the band themselves would agree. It was a joy to see Graham Gouldman's 10cc play the whole thing live, all the tracks in order, a few years back. Oh....within seconds of me posting and resuming the clip, the author vouches for the same point. 👍

[@duncanparsons]

I always felt Sparks were a better comparison than Steely Dan.. but mine seems to be a lone voice in this regard

[@Tomlinsky]

Totally. Creatively parallel on many levels. Never got the Steely Dan comparison. Both great but nothing like each other.

[@samguberman2288]

Sparks are still producing the goods with their latest album A steady drip drip drip, check out Pacific standard time

[@krisscanlon4051]

Steely Dan were studio based and probably were Brit rockers fav so I get it...10CC were studio mavens as were Steely Dan

[@markfernandes9715]

Sparks' later LP's were similar to what Godley and Creme were doing after they left 10cc. Back in 1975, Indiscreet is their first album in that direction

[@peterdowney1492]

75 - in his dotage! And there's a pair laugh of shock admiration. I strongly believe that it's this attitude (not meant badly) that actually hinders many people's own expectations as they reach a certain age. There is nothing astounding about a 75 year old man writing a great LP. I'm 73 and the only thing that would be astonishing about me writing a great piece of work would be that it ran contrary to anything I had done before - I didn't/don't have that talent.

[@StratsRUs]

I love Life Is A Minestrone and Good Morning Judge too.They had such a wide and spirited song personality.Amazing talent In ONE Band.I was expecting Neil Innes or Bonzo Dog ...to have a guest spot ! Joy Division would get given studio time in between other bands.And in Peter Hook's book he recounts how cold it was because 10cc would be frugal over the heating bills.

[@Gothic55]

10cc are one of my all time favourite bands - they are unique. The only band that has similar status and peculiarity - Prefab Sprout.

[@davidcopson5800]

Your taste is impeccable.

[@gordonwhitelock4349]

Reminds me of Will Birch's comments on Jonathan King's deal with the Kursaals re his cut on their career, gx

[@shame69]

Venturing into my vault o' cuttings, I see that Godley & Creme's third post-10cc album, 'Freeze Frame', was reviewed by Mark in NME and David in Sounds. Mark opines that it is "an odious racket, an expensive waste of time" which has them "bubble-bathing in a mass of their self-important, inane phobias", whereas David proclaims G&C "pile up images just like they overdub guitars, to make up in quantity what the elements lack in quality" and concludes with, "They grew tired of making music a long time ago and now they merely make records, proudly opening doors that were bricked up for a good reason, because they lead nowhere of any importance". RAVE REVIEWS!!!!!!!! Not that it means anything to anyone but I absolutely love the Godley & Creme catalogue. So NURR!

[@beatxt]

I was more of a G&C fan after the split and bought their albums to the last, but the continuation 10CC lost me after 3 or 4 albums.

[@danny1959]

I always thought of their sound as The Mothers of Invention meets The Beatles.

[@spinynormanbest6410]

I like your thinking Danny 👍👍

[@stevehoran5595]

Me too, exactly! The pop-rock eclecticism and great harmonies of Abbey Road era Beatles crossed with the humor, zany unpredictability, and doo-wop influenced sound of Frank Zappa.

[@YellowfinGrouper]

I agree that the diversity of sounds is their greatest strength. An artist who us comparable is Todd Rundgren as a solo artist and with the other members of Utopia who are all composers, vocalists and producers.

[@thefishpiesky]

Just discovered the Word in Your Ear/Attic vids and really enjoying them. Great stuff. Have watched this one re 10cc and Sexsmith and Difford. All thoroughly lovely.

[@WordInYourEar]

Welcome to the parish! :-) Alex

[@candelise]

Those first four albums: very 10cc, very wonderful! Fancy having a band that have an instrument that they invented with a sound that no one else has. They really should've made the most of that. Others bands like Squeeze may have witty lyrics, great tunes etc. But they did not have the studio sense of wonder in their sound that 10cc had.

[@alihart]

In recent years I've taken to wondering why 10cc haven't been rehabilitated in the way that say, XTC or ELO have been (other non-capital letter bands are available). People even have positive things to say about Supertramp, for goodness sake.

[@alisonwunderland9900]

Strawberry Studios was in Stockport not Manchester.

[@carlparker8951]

Listen to the whole thing. Liam states Strawberry is in Stockport around 15 minutes in. Though you may perhaps insist that Manchester United be renamed Stockport United.

[@Phelps440]

Well said Alison ... You tell em ... Stockport is Stockport .. Full Stop.

[@pommycalva]

At 16 mins .30 seconds in you talk about the Gizmo,would I be right in saying it’s e-bow before it’s time?

[@Rocket88]

Sort of! It's a similar idea but slightly more complicated. The Gizmotron uses small, motor-driven plastic/rubber wheels to make the strings vibrate.

[@pommycalva]

@@Rocket88 Thanks.

[@AndyCooper761]

I believe that the Gizmo touched each string with a tiny revolving wheel, to create sound - and chords were possible. The e-bow uses magnetism (I think) to vibrate a single string, but no contact is needed. Never used a Gizmo, but I’ve had an e-bow for many years (so I ought to know a bit more about how they work 😬.

[@StratsRUs]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/paq3Z6Jplrlkl5o Here you go. Fernandez has had the Sustainer for a while and can be found on Ed O' Brien's Strat.

[@davidayer2168]

Krazee, just read an article about 10cc last night, from Shindig! #65, Apr 2016

[@lionsmouth11]

Lovely interview. The book's excellent too and very honest; as wonderful a band as they are, the fact remains that several of the later albums are pretty bad and probably the result of simply keeping the name going for too long. The book doesn't hide that so it's balanced with all of the great stuff that they did over the years.

[@gkmacca1]

According to Eric's account, the sudden split with the other three, and then the reluctant time spent as a duo, was so dramatic that it amazes me that every discussionabout 10cc seems to just gloss over the whole thing. Surely journalistically it's, you know, quite interesting to ask what actually happened?

[@krisscanlon4051]

I agree with the Steely Dan comparison...sexualized band names...pristine playing...tech savvy groups...also very thematic music...they both were obsessed with the worlds of rock bands. Studio mavens both were in love with sound.

[@jamesgriffithsmusic]

Squeeze were a good comparison with 10cc....clever, no-image, each song different, people know the songs but not the band.

[@iansmith8263]

???? every squeeze song sounded the same, they werent all very clever, and they cultivated their image....whatever it was.

[@PeterStrachanMusic]

Squeeze were not in the same league as 10cc. Very samey sounding songs and not many hits. 10cc were brilliant on record and amazing live.

[@musicloverUK]

Like 10cc now Squeeze are great live. I love the sound of bands with extra percussion.

[@martinabrahamsmusic2141]

Hello again...so when I'm not being Martin Rock God, or Tray La Man radio presenter, I'm Lol Creme's postman. I have to say that Lol and his wife are two of the loveliest people you could ever wish to meet. In fact Lol went through his recycle bin for me one day so he could show me an article we were discussing in the MU Magazine ( I shit you not). Anyway, apart from shameless self promotion, I'm writing this because if anyone thinks that Lol wouldn't get involved in Liam's book because he's an ego ridden rock star, nothing could be further from the truth. He's a genuinely lovely man.

[@liamnewton3252]

Great story, Martin. To your point, I never got the impression that Lol didn't get involved in the book because of any rock star 'ego' thing. As you say, he always comes across as a genuinely lovely guy with a great sense of humour. Maybe he just wasn't interested in discussing the past. Anyway, next time you see him tell him I'm happy to send him a copy of the book if he's interested in reading it!

[@martinabrahamsmusic2141]

Will do. Haven't ordered my copy yet but will do. 😎👍

[@HughTerry69]

Wot no Hotlegs..? 10cc made great records and were pretty damn good in concert too, I believe. So sad that they let that gizmo thing come between them.

[@davidcopson5800]

Hotlegs. Very popular with Neanderthals.

[@chobber]

This pretty much sums up my memories of the band as a 16-17 year old. I loved their use of puns and still use many to this day ('...that's the way the croissant crumbles...' etc etc). I remember taking some mates to see them at the Rainbow Finsbury Park, naively thinking we'd get in with no problem at all as I was sure no-one had heard of them (as touched on by Liam). It had sold out weeks before! I did get to see them eventually, quite a few times in fact, and finally at the legendary Knebworth gig where they, allegedly, kept the Stones waiting because they wanted to play in the dark. I think the book finally explains it.

[@johnhouston1054]

Mark doing his best Human Wasp impression at 25.30

[@philiphaigh8349]

Great 10cc were A class Act ,🥃 x

[@krisscanlon4051]

10CC were in my estimation brilliant pseudo spoof pop rock. I feel that it was theater art rock and nothing was done too seriously. The original quartet was the real deal and was always best when straddling the line tween faux and real pop rock... It was essentially the equivalent to method acting. They were perfectionist pop rockers and visually looked like the Eagles. Their albums were masterpieces in form...the look of the lps were exquisite.

[@robertelliston3002]

Certainly NOT the worst band in the world. My fave band in the mid 70s before Steely Dan stole me away. Nice story of my dad trying to get me their brand new album... traipsing round all the record shops in Blackpool with no success. He kept being met with " We've got sheet music if that's any good" and he kept replying, "I don't bloody want sheet music. I want a proper vinyl record and it's called The Original Soundtrack!!!" Happy days. Always preferred them to Queen and in those days it was EITHER/ OR but, like football teams, definitely not BOTH!!!

[@samguberman2288]

I'm not in love, The Story of 10cc which was on BBC 4 was fantastic

[@garyrutland1119]

10CC. Genius. Until Lol and Kevin left of course. So happy they're finally getting some of the dues owed them.

[@adrianbrowne7962]

The Comparison Between 10cc And Steely Dan Has I'm Sure " Suggested Itself On More Than One Occasion " And " I Say That As Someone Who Is A Huge Admirer Of Both Groups " !! From Adrian Browne 1965

[@tonykehoe123]

Always remember buying original soundtrack from penny lane records in Liverpool and thinking “what the f*#ck” and like other 10cc albums , they all went onto form my musical DNA . Feel the benefit...

[@michaeldunne3379]

George Tremlett wrote a biography of 10cc during the 1970s (I still own a copy) so Liam Newton is wrong to claim there hadn’t been a previous one. Looking forward to the update of his one, though..

[@liamnewton3252]

You are right, Michael, and I still have my copy of George Tremlett's book too. It was published in 1976 but had been out of print for nearly 20 years by the time I started to write my book, hence my point that there were no 10cc books out there. Hope you enjoy the update!

[@ambadad]

@@liamnewton3252 Well I bought the hardback just a couple of weeks ago. What a tome, Liam. I think I'm going to have to spend the Christmas break to go through it. My first concert was 10cc at Leeds Uni. They are so special. Shame Lol didn't join in. That surprised me as he comes across as such a lovely, easy going bloke in the documentary on them. Anyway, thank you so much for putting the book together.

[@liamnewton3252]

@@ambadad You're welcome! Hope you enjoy working your way through it!

[@markfernandes9715]

Liam, I always thought that a similar thing happened to 10CC as happened to The Beatles, in that the chemistry between the four members that created the magic became creative differences after a while which led to a split.

[@davidcopson5800]

I think he also wrote a biography of David Bowie.

[@yourharlowfilms]

I always wondered what happened to the relationship between Kevin and Lol? They must have been good friends as well as musical collaborators however the seemed to have parted in the early nineties and you get the feeling there was some form of rancour that still exists today. Could I put a shout out to Foreign Accents/Business is Business from L and then Periscope from the new album.

[@eoghanlyng5074]

Few of us enjoy hanging out with out exes, and I'm guessing that's how Kevin feels about Lol. Both men have been admirably tight-lipped, but neither are eager to stand in teh same room as the other.

[@nickaustin8334]

I am a recent and current fan . Sheet Music to 10 out of 10. All top drawer music

[@davidcopson5800]

Their best album for me. Though I admit Deceptive Bends was better than I thought it would be - now being '5cc'.

[@JammyGit]

I've always been curious as to what the 10cc name actually refers to. The 2 stories I've heard were that 10cc is the heroin dosage in a syringe, and the other one was that 10cc is the amount of sperm produced in a male ejaculation. I'm not sure about the dream story though 🙄🤷‍♂️

[@waterboys3001]

I'm 65. Both my wife and sister bought albums by 10cc in the 1970s. My wife even went to see them live. I don't know any male friends who bought their records. I would suggest that their fanbase was mostly female. Women don't take pop music as seriously as men. Probably that is why they have been ignored. I'm Not in Love was a brilliant record.

[@stephenelkington4971]

'I'm Mandy - Fly Me' was even better. Brilliant band.

[@jean-marieboucherit4716]

I’m crazy about Old Wild Men

[@iansmith8263]

me too, love.

[@jean-marieboucherit4716]

ian smith i’m not a girl.

[@iansmith8263]

@@jean-marieboucherit4716 tres desole, mon bruv

[@jean-marieboucherit4716]

ian smith pas d’prob

[@davidcopson5800]

So am I. I am one!

[@davidcopson5800]

Art students for art students' sake.

[@miketomlin6040]

I'd forgotten about them, staple radio one catchy terror pop band from the 70's. So much of this pap muzak around then. Queen, ELO another two that spring to mind. Good sing along radio tunes until you get to 16 and ought to move on with your ears. Their 1st Lp is so bad it is good, would be a private press classic if this was an unknown band!

[@russellsims8197]

Their first album is great. Ironic, smart, catchy as hell and so engaging.

[@miketomlin6040]

@@russellsims8197 If you like that camp rock-pop sound it may appeal. I recall my sister playing that one when it came out, or soon after. Their tunes could be catchy, which helps if you are after chart toppers. I noticed younger people in the USA over the last 10 years were buying their Lp's. No idea why, now or why there.