Lightning Reed is both Overpowered and Underpowered: heres why

[@trickywickbow5536]

Reed is like the star fruit When it isn’t being spammed it’s just pathetic But when it’s spammed it can dominate levels

[@Pēm̐cā]

pretty much

[@ellienugent2000]

I get it

[@shadelightss]

Every DPS plant is good when spammed, why should lightning reed be considered good when there's better options to spam

[@donovangallegos7839]

@@shadelightss because it attacks multiple lines, which makes it one of the easiest to spam

[@lebollsong]

@@donovangallegos7839 and 25 sun less. The sun cost can make a bigger difference than you think.

[@itzastro_0352]

Despite how good/bad lightning reed is, you gotta admit he has an awesome visual design

[@gradient816]

the bug zapper costume is the best in the game

[@Roshay_gd]

Yes

[@A_very_creative_Youtube_alias]

You can say its shocking, eh? Eh? Ok imma shut my mouth

[@deebophone_friggitydiggity]

@@A_very_creative_KZbin_alias good one *knee slap*

[@gaopinghu7332]

@@A_very_creative_KZbin_alias that wasn't a very electrifying joke.

[@K-yu-ko8dv]

18 minutes of plant love, 18 minutes of plant love, 18 minutes of plant hate and 18 minutes of plant neutral. The cycle is complete

[@ytghost8982]

_The holy trinity_

[@InsertFunnyThingHere]

We did 18 minutes of plant neutral, now we need 18 minutes of plant mix-up

[@Leet-iz2fz]

@@InsertFunnyThingHere Plant Okizeme

[@drastics4394]

Plant Wombo

[@zackOOO-nz9rh]

now we need plant evil and plant good

[@foojo9]

Out of all plants, Lightning Reed is truly one of them.

[@robertlupa8273]

I don't know why, but this variation of "truly one of the [x] of all time" joke doesn't make me nearly as angry as the other ones. Maybe it's because it doesn't sound incomplete? It's gramatically correct and all.

[@3-leafs]

@@robertlupa8273 same

[@GimOA]

@@robertlupa8273 yeah, It's true that The Lightning Reed is one of the plants in PvZ2.

[@_1V4N]

Yup, one of the plants of all time right here.

[@randerins]

but...is it?

[@numimio]

The lightning reed is like the sten gun. It's a lightweight machine gun that gets work done, its easily mass produced, and almost anybody can use it just by putting it into their hands. You'd find it hard to mess up with a sten gun when you don't go out of your way to mess up.

[@minhducnguyen9276]

On strategic level it's also like the T34s. Why make a tank that can last for years if it won't survive 6 months of combat anyway? Yes, there are DPS plants that can deal much more aoe damage than lightning reeds like winter melons. But you'll never reach critical mass with Winter melons before a level end. Lightning reeds only need to hold that long. it appears that sun production in PvZ2 is lower than PvZ1 and the average levels are shorter, which doesn't benefit a high level DPS plant.

[@frowner_and_co]

@@minhducnguyen9276 nightshade, Moonflower and lightning Reed is op

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@frowner_and_co Nightshade is one of the few DPS plants that gain permanent boost after using plant food. And the fact that it can serve both as melee and ranged plants making it both the walls and the guns. Slapping some gloom vines on it and you have a solid defense at an affordable price.

[@AceTechn0]

Is a “sten gun” an actual thing or is that a spelling mistake (I’m asking because you called it a sten gun twice)

[@frowner_and_co]

@@AceTechn0 it's Stun gun

[@raejannmelchor2947]

In my personal opinion A single lightning reed is underpowered But a swarm of them is an overpowered force to be reckoned with

[@raejannmelchor2947]

If i support my statement It is made to deal large hordes of small hp zombies

[@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862]

Until theres a level with a garg in it

[@chi8939]

@@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862 doesnt matter you can just use two explosive plants

[@marioalbertomoreno3819]

kinda like bees also I mix it with snow pea and it works wonders, almost nothing can get past the first 3 lanes

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@hooparainbowbraceypkmonand7862 If a lightning reed cloud focus on it it won't last very long. Granted the cloud picks its target randomly.

[@takebacktheholyland9306]

I like how the lightning reed is similarly described to the wh40k laser gun "Those whom underestimate the power of the humble lasgun, has clearly not ran out into a field of a thousand of them"

[@jenniferlumiqued]

Starfruit can be applied to that to my brother, one of all of them is straight up pathetic, huge swarms of them are devastating to whoever is being fired at by them

[@talosine2963]

The problem is that you only get 20 of them

[@agustin12689]

Now we need a video about how underrated is Banana Launcher. Banana Launcher forever.

[@kinggamereon653]

BANANA!

[@tendiest9253]

660nj did a video recently(13 days) on it

[@lebollsong]

@@tendiest9253 but it doesn't specify much about banana's usage. It's only like a comparison between it and cob and why cob wouldn't fit in pvz2 (haha I accidentally made up a pun there). There's no memtion about the fact that you can get 2-3 lanes of banana launcher. Or that you can get one before the first flag.....

[@eggsnham.]

Up up up! Banana!

[@pissheater3k]

I eat banana

[@staticsphere_]

This kind of got me thinking, if the issue is the lack of reason to use different plants, and eclises forcing of x strategy or die doesn’t work either (the mod isn’t really fun imo), what if we have a mode similar to pvz2 endless, but instead of selectable cards, everything’s unlocked. The gimmick is however, you can’t use the same plant on a level after you use it, e.g. for level 1 garlic is picked, for level 2 garlic is locked out but can be used again on level 3. There would definitely be exceptions such as sun producers, lily pads and a few misc plants, but it might encourage diversity and have the player use multiple plant counters against x zombie types, instead of just spamming the same strategy. Maybe have a higher coin drop rate similar to altverses endless, and now there’s an incentive to use different plants without the mandatory locked and loaded seeds levels with a gimmick strategy in every world (still an option though). I don’t know just a fun thought experiment for a fix

[@vermillionshadow6170]

People might just rotate between two sets of plants. And it would be a problem where a plant is needed in level 2 but you didn’t know you’d have needed it so you used it on level 1 anyway.

[@LanaIsUnderrated]

tbh, ive almost always used lightning reed in BwB since it loves to spam zombies later for early game I use stallers I dont get why, but I love it, even if i can agree, yes, sometimes its good, sometimes its shit

[@brainiac0141]

I don't know how strong it would be, but in my opinion, all plants with electric attacks should Deal more damage on the beach, because the zombies are walking in water

[@LanaIsUnderrated]

@@brainiac0141 Well, they are undead, why can they die in the first place because they are already dead

[@CocawithCola]

@@LanaIsUnderrated what about the octopi

[@LanaIsUnderrated]

@@CocawithCola there is a beautifull strategy called lilypad + puffshroom which even makes lightning reed better since it has a target it can get its chain lightning from

[@rustysaw3288]

What is BwB?

[@minh5295]

First impressions: the title is the most accurate description of lightning reed and I am surprised nobody mentioned it before. Lightning reed is busted for the late game but disappointing for the early game Edit: it is busted if a mod has weak sun production and has a rushed early game Edit 2: just watch the video, it's a pretty good video and that is a pretty accurate way to look at lightning reed. Ok, now for me here are when I use lightning reed and don't use it Vanilla: the game isn't heavy enough and too fast to use other plants. Sure laser is good at piercing but the wave is too light so why bother. Banana and winter melon is busted but the game end too fast. I don't use it IF the first few wave are powerful zombie. Mod: i use it if the level have too much grave and grave buster cost sun. It is good for mod with 25 sun due to reed is usually cheap. However, reed is mod is too weak for a heavy and powerful zombie spam mod (like Eclise)

[@robertlupa8273]

_"Lightning reed is busted for the late game but disappointing for the early game"_ I thought it'd be the other way around, since Reed can cover three lanes at the same time. Then again, I also think of Reed as just Chicken counter and nothing else.

[@randomperson4198]

@@robertlupa8273 well it is and it isn't. Since 3 lightning can kept simultaneously atk 1 zombie from 3 different line. But if the zombie has a bucket then it become early nightmare and feel very under whelming but then late game is just a laser show of too many lightning that it just either give people epilepsy or lightning show good unga boonga

[@randomperson4198]

Long story short bucket is the ultimate armor

[@gaerekxenos]

@@randomperson4198 Potato Mine is my go-to remedy. It usually isn't a huge issue. Lightning Reed damage kinda sucks, but you patch with a fairly cheap nuke solution while flooding board with Sunflower and Reeds. Then you get the even more expensive option once you've done Future with Turnip tiles for plant food spam. Thundercloud swarm basically fixes the main issue with Lightning Reed spams with single target removals. Though... I haven't played in years, so who knows what the state of the game is tbh =/ strat probably doesn't work as well nowadays

[@houselemuellan8756]

It's called "balanced"

[@wilsonweiseng6485]

weak on its own but snowballs as you plant more of them

[@DannyCheezits]

@@wilsonweiseng6485 isnt that like half of the plants in the game though

[@brunobruno-c1d]

@@DannyCheezits not necessarily, a lot of plants will get stronger as you spam them, sure, thats expected but ones like reed get *much more* power from spam, 5 peashooters are gonna be way weaker than 5 reeds, specially since reeds get more effectiveness from fighting multiple enemies when you have many of them so basically they grow in power in a above-average way when compared to other plants, the snowball being specially notable

[@bird7270]

After reading this multiple times, I can indeed say this is one of the comments i've ever seen

[@DannyCheezits]

@@brunobruno-c1d true

[@jeanalex8992]

Lightning Reed is an S Tier Plant IMO.. I find it especially useful in many levels where you can't use Sun Producers, it's also nice that there aren't any zombies that counter Lightning Reed.. I almost always use it and it pairs very well with Winter Melon..

[@khajasodhuu2821]

Lightning Reeds just Ooga Booga Me use Reed

[@majorfender6054]

there are zombies that counter lightning reed. they have high hp

[@handyes42]

​@@majorfender6054 cherry bomb

[@togarashi6437]

You did say something about the games’ lack of encouragement for experimentation and I think that should be a video on its own. Maybe something like “the fundamental issues of pvz” or something like that. This goes back to the risk and reward thing back in the Strawburst section where you said no one used Strawburst because it’s difficult to use. The reward seems to cap while the risk varies. This may be for much different situations but the issue remains the same. Going back to why certain plants are overpowered, I think it’s because they’re too safe. Notably Pokra who requires no skill for her ludicrously high damage output.

[@trickygamer555]

He's balanced until you look at it's levels. It's damage goes up insanely quickly.

[@mehmetunal9731]

got mine lvl 7 it is insane

[@rishav_666]

Mine is lvl 3 but still op

[@Have_some_plasma]

Not JUST damage, the levels in vanilla also upgrade the number of targets for the ark bounce. At max level just 1 column can deal with entire waves on their own (provided there's no gargs, then you need some instas).

[@minhducnguyen9276]

​@@Have_some_plasma Let be real, people who say it sucks because it can't handle every type of zombies are just ignoring that other plants can't do that either. Even if I can't use heavy hitters I can just fill the rest of my slots with utilities and bomb plants. Shrinking violet alone can make lightning reed melt through everything and it's already strong at level 1. If things get too heated you just use spring beans and blovers to oneshot everything.

[@DaRainbowDude]

lightning reed isnt low dps when fighting high amounts of zombies and chain to hit like 3 zombies effectively multiplying it's damage but its spread around

[@milkmonstrosity]

It still has poor single target damage, which is what he meant. The time it takes even for a full field of them to drop Knight-strength enemies and above should highlight that weakness.

[@DaRainbowDude]

by the time knights come there should still be a swarm of other zombies and backup plants, like I wouldnt just keep lightning reed only by the time those strong zombies come, I have rarely seen just like a few very powerful zombies on the field unless there are like 5 king zombies, but far future has a bunch of high health machines soooo point taken, the time that single target comes is like the beginning of the game where you might have like potato mines and iceberg lettuce to help stall

[@alcatraz_444]

@@milkmonstrosity only noobs plant single reed. Reed is a gang up plant and upgrading it is very meaningful compared to other plants. For each level up the damage increases 4+ when it multiplies and hit quad of zombies it’s a gang of killers. Also knight zombies are nothing

[@minhducnguyen9276]

@@alcatraz_444 Besides, a single knight won't last long being focused down by 3 lanes of reeds. And because lighting reeds will clear out most cannon fodders, lightning reed plants food ability will most likely focus on it.

[@DiSableye_]

It's actually my favorite attack spam plant! I thought a lot of people used it as well.. I'm so glad you made a video about it!

[@luongmaihunggia]

Truly one of the most plants of all time. I love when he said "it's reeding time" and lightning all over the zombies.

[@rednetherbrick3178]

This joke is not funny

[@rottenbrat2021]

@@rednetherbrick3178 and so is you

[@ShadesMF]

This joke is funny

[@deadlytoaster1422]

This joke is one of the jokes of all time

[@robertlupa8273]

@@rednetherbrick3178 I agree. This joke is unfunny. But if someone likes it, I'll just sigh and go away. No point in offending them. It won't change their opinion. Keep that in mind, everyone.

[@ItsPForPea]

AltverZ's Reed used to be vanilla Reed + one extra bounce for 200 sun It could beat every normal level released at the time as a the only attacker Do not underestimate Reed

[@Creeps20]

i remember the days fondly

[@NeoBing]

amazing, i will download old altverz just for this

[@billy6678]

I couldn’t understand a specific sentence you said so I turned on captions not expecting much. And to my shock, *the video was properly captioned.* Proper captions are probably one of the biggest turnons in a youtube video and has single-handedly earned a sub. Thank you🙏

[@NeoBing]

The creeps subtitling community is here to help you understand the foreign language that creeps is speaking

[@TheCrippledEgg]

The strength of Lightning Reed is like that scene in A Bug's Life. Individually they weak but have massive strengths in numbers.

[@bek0sama721]

red was at electrical

[@660nj]

i saw yellow in o2

[@dripsong8967]

This rooms gonna be red if you don't shut up

[@Quarkbrief]

But the body was at electrical! Its Yellow!

[@meezbeerde6264]

​@@Quarkbrief OBJECTION i saw you vent to med bay

[@firstwaddledee9182]

I like to use lightning reed as an early game attacker to store up sun for more powerful attackers. I also found that it’s use is dependent on the zombie lineup. Good for specialized low health zombies but does nothing against a cone mech.

[@outspade]

Cool how this was seemingly the inspiration for electric/power plants in the Garden Warfare games. (For anyone who doesn’t know, in those games, plants of the “Power” element tend to fire electric attacks which, upon hitting a zombie, chain to nearby zombies.)

[@hodanisbased4980]

I’d love to watch more vids of you just talking about plants. This stuff is really interesting to me

[@lordmanatee439]

I swept through the entire campaign usong lightining reed as much as possible, good overall arc damage, simple setup, and high single target damage when necessary. Had to use speciality plants for certain mechanics but I loved it

[@krealyesitisbeta5642]

I don’t even play any of these games yet I am captivated by your PVZ videos.

[@Padeiro_Igno]

It's finally time to see another plant review from Creeps! Yes! Also a review of one of my favorite plants this time.

[@Predator20357]

For me, the Lightning Reed is how I would put it, Situational I can’t put him in every level and expect to do super well with him, however he can do great in other levels where he’s needed.

[@applepie1272]

Ur a pretty underrated guy huh? The only person who makes videos like this, keep it up boss

[@akinommonika472]

Id pick lightning reed over E Peashooter . E Peashooter is kinda bad against bosses, but other one paired with turnip, you can melt boss hp within few seconds in vanilla. The firerate of E Peashooter is slower than regular peashooter and if the fast critters somehow manage to get to eating range, the E Peashooter straight dies, Reed doesnt have this issue . Reed is also way cheaper and can be deployed in faster rate than the other one.

[@togarashi6437]

I didn't buy Elec Pea in vanilla but I was never impressed with him because of how hard he is to use. The free levels he's in (some Pinata parties and Wild West day 27) aren't particularly well designed and don't showcase the plant well. Low level Elec Pea requires a lot of support but like you said, shreds with Turnip. This is unlike GT Elec Pea which carries medium-difficulty levels. It has insane damage despite firing slowly and can destroy Armor 3s and 4s faster than many plants.

[@voidsouled6444]

Gotta agree with this video. I play vanilla PVZ2 and my sister does as well. She always comes to me for advice about the game, and once she wanted help beating a level. I told her to stall and spam lightning reed. She came back five minutes later, saying she lost. I told her: "Lighting Reed is good, but sometimes it's not."

[@robertlupa8273]

"Well yes but actually no."

[@takeazelfie6584]

For me it was just a strategy that I could occasionally used. I just thought it was decent but like most plants in the game, sometimes they are going to excel in different maps

[@biggsbutts3755]

Lightning reed is good because its a 3 times cheaper slightly weaker threepeater that, if the zombies are aligned properly (which they usually are cuz hordes) with almost full piercing for those three lanes. I think people say its overpowered because in the early stage its hella easy to spam out and usually 3 reeds can clear any moderately strong zombies on their own and once the mid game comes any big hordes comprised of frail zombies get smoked, so like a laser bean with multi-lane and faster shot speed. Other people say its weak af cuz the second a lone buckethead or stronger zombie shows up the at max 6 to 9 ish reeds that can actually target it cant suddenly makes you realise how bad the damage is in a vacuum.

[@andrewgreeb916]

I remember the main reason I stopped spamming Reed was simply because rotobaga was simply better and more fun to use, rotobaga has the multilane targeting, but actually does damage and counters any backline shenanigans the zombies might pull. Also rotobaga leaves you with more room to incorporate other plants into your strategy.

[@biggsbutts3755]

@@andrewgreeb916 True that, tho early game rotobaga is inconsistent asf with its sideways hitboxes and rlly bad tracking so I remember hating it for that hahaha

[@simplyeyeronic1443]

@@andrewgreeb916 rotobaga, the homie, singlehandedly carries beach. It's nice

[@magnapanther]

I absolutely love lightning reed, one of my favorite plants, just so much fun to use even if it's a bit weak (decent when spammed tho)

[@paulbadilla8872]

If Lightning Reed had a much higher damage output, it would be a very powerful plant in my opinion. That's the only real reason why people don't use the plant. And yes, like you ssaid it seems to be only useful against those small, rushing enemies like the squirrels, chickens, and etc.

[@houselemuellan8756]

"overpowered" "underpowered" it's a really big issue in this community. That's why eclise and GT has so many bullshit changes What we need are *fun* plants.

[@SharyK-_0]

* Sad gaucodile noises *

[@doritos4956]

The melons

[@andrewgreeb916]

Gt absolutely redid rotobaga, and I'm not a fan. By equivalent sun cost it's 800 sun (400 sun on a 25 sun meta), rotobaga is a spam plant not a bulk plant. And the only thing they buffed was that it has pierce attacks.

[@averagemicrosoftpaintenjoy7115]

hey excuse me have you ever used GT red stinger Also, I am neutral on the roto rework, both are cool

[@thefrostychemist]

I don't really play PvZ2 that much but I do play a ton of BTD6 and when I first saw the lightning reed I immediately recognized it as just a high pierce, low damage tower, and it's interesting to hear how that functions in PvZ, where most things tend to have a lot less pierce by default than in BTD6

[@DrPootis]

I've never understood why people liked lightning Reed before this video. You really hit the nail on the head on the ease of use vs effectiveness aspect of plant balancing. Also I am also someone who never really experiments. Before leveling was added I typically used winter melon with fume or lazer bean or dusk lobber when it was added. After leveling I just use three peater because everything became op

[@thekoifishcoyote8762]

Extra Credits had a term for this kind of thing: First Order Optimal Strategies (FOO Strategies). Basically they're options that are very effective for how much effort you put in. They're basically training wheels that let new players feel awesome, but need to be balanced in a way that enough effort makes them obsolete.

[@koalapvz]

Enjoy these analysis style videos- Ive never really liked lightning reed and I can't understand why people use it with its low dps. That's just my opinion..

[@NeoBing]

hey mate, love your videos, i think you're giving the aussie pvz community a nice spotlight. Keep doing what ya doing! - fellow aussie pvz player

[@koalapvz]

@@NeoBing Thanks bro, love from Sydney

[@NeoBing]

@@koalapvz hey mate, also from Sydney lol, not in the city though

[@toz_lmao]

Honestly I just use it for the nostalgia Ever since I was young I loved that plant, despite it's simple design, and I saw that it was pretty good for my tiny brain, so I just kept it

[@Stirling96]

Based.

[@moacruz9861]

3:33 so that is your Strategy as well, Removing the sunflowers around and exchange it with attackers every time it's charging or maybe if you have enough suns to fill the area I Really love this strategy Pretty awesome, I actually put the range attackers behind 👀 I mean, The sunproducers are chip and extremely important plants

[@mdbgamer556]

I personally like Lightning Reed, but you've described the plant and it's pros and cons very well.

[@impbutnot3701]

I asked for a reed buff for nightcast awhile back um maybe it was a bit much

[@Creeps20]

what hell have you brought upon this world

[@impbutnot3701]

@@Creeps20 I tried it thought it was shit asked for a buff then here we are

[@yeet8036]

What kind of buffs did it get? I tried to search it and found nothing

[@impbutnot3701]

Uh check out poll and annoucements in nightcast server you should find the update it got buffed in

[@glazzo1626]

We need a video on Guacodile, its so underrated and underapreciated. I love it, its a good plant but It gets sweeped under the rug like it's worthless.

[@Vilodenas]

Back when I played this game, Lightning Reed had to be my most used plant.

[@agustin12689]

Infi-nut needs his own video. People always use it but never say thank you to the plant and appreciate how good It is.

[@notrobloxburger]

It carries with its plant food during bwb levels with fisherman zombie

[@eggsnham.]

It carries with it's plant food -during bwb levels with fisherman zombies-

[@Marco-pe4sr]

PVZ2 videos are making a comeback never thought I see the day.

[@Adonisius]

Lighting Reed is much like it's namesake lighting. When a single one strikes, nobody really bats an eye. But when you have a thunderstorm, everybody starts running.

[@theplaguegamer6216]

Tile Turnip is probably the most well known plant to benefit from the leveling system when it was added. In base form the turnip was essentially useless level it up to silver and it becomes workable max it out and you'll wonder how you played without it. Tile Turnip went from F-tier to S-tier in a single update

[@togarashi6437]

For me, Tile Turnip, Bowling Bulb, and Stallia are the only pre-Arena plants to truly benefit from levelling.

[@alexstewart9592]

@@togarashi6437 Several of the other Far Future plants actually benefit quite a bit. Infini-nut's special ability has its delay reduced, and so it can heal itself between waves more consistently. Since it also gets the universal HP boost, this makes the plant's ability to survive grow quite a lot. Granted, leves where you need that are rare because the plant is already quite good (and its plant food effect of the wall is one that can be considered "overpowered", as it can tank otherwise unblockable zombies and even completly or partially disables a wide variety of special abilities). Citron is a really good example of a world plant which goes up in tier as you raise the level of all world plants - as an expensive non-instant plant with a lengthy recharge time cost reduction actually matters for it, and in addition to the general damage benefits all plants get it also gains increased attack frequency as it levels up, substantually increasing its DPS relative to other plants. Finally, Laser Bean does benefit a bit more than normal from levels, as its most important stats are the Sun and tile cost of getting enough of it to effectively permanently remove basic/conehead/buckethead zombies from the level so you can build the rest of your lawn to kill Gargs and high HP/speed special zombies.

[@togarashi6437]

@@alexstewart9592 They benefit too, but not significantly as most of those are stat boosts. The three I listed feel like their usage changes entirely because of it.

[@zakronthesheep]

Before watching the video: I personally love it because it covers three lanes, hits multiple zombies at once, fires VERY fast, and doesn't count as a projectile or an overhead weapon. It's especially useful in Dark Ages because of that GODDAMN JESTER. It does low damage, but the fast fire rate more than makes up for it when you put down multiple. One lightning reed by itself basically can't do anything, but like 3 or more together are effectively constant chip damage. It can also hit zombies on the same column, and chain to those that are behind it; that's not useful a ton of the time, but when it is it's a lifesaver.

[@oldacc264]

10:10 FINALLY, someone who acknowledges that lvl 1 bowling bulb can be useful in levels with a lot of zombies.

[@coffeesc1875]

Tile turnip is my favorite plant in the entire game - except Lightning reed Holy shit, both of these combined are beautiful, I love using them together. Good video on the best plant in the game ;)

[@TheyAlsoCallMeVadobe]

When I first saw lightning Reed when I first played the game I instantly fell in love with it because of how much I loved aoe, then after forcing myself to use it through some levels since I liked it and I was the type of person to try and experiment or use atleast 3 attacking plants per level for some reason? (Probably symmetry reasons I don't remember) I started to like it less because I realized "wait a sec... holy the damage on this plant SUCKS!" and then after I forced myself to use it for every wild west level I could except for 2 and then for half of future age since I still loved how it worked enough to do that I was like "ok yeah no I'll just use better plants" I assumed I was just utilizing it not very well and that's probably right but its shocking to hear that people actually consider it overpowered Sure when you multiply it by 10 each zombies is taking that much damage but its low damage it has very slowly became a big turn off for me

[@xannymanny9754]

Lighting reed with the power tiles in fat future made that world a cakewalk. Spamming those thunder clouds was absolutely busted

[@thenormalizer532]

How Good was Kernel Pult ACTUALLY

[@andrewgreeb916]

If the plan is to stall to get the big guns plants like melon it's solid, otherwise unwanted or unnecessary. Eclise did buff the butter rate to 50% so kernel can perma stun which makes it way better.

[@queencobrra]

The biggest thing about Lightning Reed is it is good at dealing with unique zombies. Remember the shovel and parasol zombies from lost city? Lighting Reed hits both. And that annoying jester who throws peas? It doesn't throw lightning. And that chicken guy and the weasel girl? It was made to deal with them. The squid guy, who will turn all the plants in front of lighting Reed into squids. Lighting Reed will hit all the squids and the zombie too.

[@LeoBezan]

I would love a Tile Turnip video. I personally like the Plant because it's unique and fun to use. Although, I see how it is bad at level 1 in vanilla.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

Its DPS isn't the best, but the chain lightning factor makes spamming them out absurdly powerful, given zombies tend to appear in waves and hunched together. As long as that factor is in play, it's essentially a board affecting plant, making them collectively that much stronger.

[@dylantoney6971]

A video on iceberg lettuce could be fun, its really well designs IMO trade a slot for one of the best utilities in the game

[@NuggetOrBowtie]

i use a row of Repeater, Lightning Reed, Snap Dragon and Bonk Choy a lot of the time, and i think that Lightning Reed is actually pretty good when on a row, but he isn't so good alone

[@twovin807]

OMG 550 SUN LIGHTNING REED

[@juicyjuustar121]

Why do I keep watching these I don't even play PvZ2 The fact that I keep clicking on your videos and watching them all the way through is an enigma, have a like

[@Gamebuilder2000]

11:59 i think part of this comes to the old adage that players WILL optimize the fun out of games

[@Mr.Sempapi]

I love lighning reed, they are such a nice plant and they soothe my brain with their sounds

[@RealCoffeeSpew]

0:34 When you accidentally type 🧟‍♂️🕺💃:

[@Thecooldudenoob]

I love the plant food ability because if you have 2+ plant food that’s just a final wave clear.

[@Duppling]

One thing I noticed is that when playing the first Far Future last stand level, I first tried placing 2 rows of Laser Beans and 1 row of Lightning Reeds. It failed. Then however I used exclusively lightning reeds. It won. From what I gathered from this, I believe Lightning Reed is actually more sun efficient than Laser Bean, the more popular choice against crowds.

[@SealyTheSeal]

i was actually scrolling through the comments to see if anyone mentioned this. lightning reed, in my personal experience, does a far better job grouped than other plants that cost the same. yes things like laser beam technically counter it but those are way too expensive. not to mention any extra sun can be used to pair the lightning reeds with more heavy hitting plants.

[@m4rcyonstation93]

​@@SealyTheSealprice doesn't matter in pvz2 vanilla (barring objectives)

[@alialmans]

Great analysis, not just of pvz, but of a wide reaching concept. Not an easy task. Well done.

[@rannieller7690]

I just saw the thumbnail. I immediately told the dude next to me : "Finally someone understands"

[@Interrogation_Point]

This is my favorite plant, nothing more satisfying than spamming the entire field, even selling late game sunflowers, just to have a massive army of lightning reeds!

[@mr.funzeige1861]

A good metaphor for Lightning Reed is a *crutch*. It can help new players who are just starting to walk through the game, but as the player learns to walk better and smarter with time, they don't need crutches anymore because they're more of a hassle to use/ cause discomfort. Crutches are great for new players, but they're more so a discomfort for experienced ones, which why you rarely/never see Lightning Reed being used in mods.

[@ValiantFellow678]

I find one of your statements contradictory. You say that lightning reed is hit or miss yet at the same time state that 'it's hard for you to see it at its worst'. Given its low stats and difficulty handling tougher zombies it's not hard to see the plant struggle. It's obvious that you mean it's extremely easy to use enabling the player to always get use out of it once they know its strengths but people are painfully aware of how weak it can be nevertheless. In fact, it's part of the reason people have such a strong feeling against it. The key to its strength isn't simply that it is easy to use, it's that it is the most cost-effective method at handling large crowds. For the tougher zombies, it leaves you with plenty room for insta plant support.

[@bappojujubes981]

One of the only good memories I have of this game was when my Mom couldn't beat a stage in the Wild West because of the chickens, and I told her to give the tablet to me and beat it first try with this plant! Never have I impressed my mom so much before!

[@Thintech1]

What mod made Sap Fling deal damage?

[@Creeps20]

most of them seriously most mods make sapfling do little bits of chip, though here I think you are referring to AltverZ.

[@ironclad-av3017]

I love lightning reed, this title is good too, caught my eye as that’s literally how I’ve felt about lightning reed, he’s both amazing yet ass

[@shellpoptheepicswordmaster755]

So lightning reed is underpowered while lightning reeds are overpowered?

[@MrRatchet12661]

Yeah I can now see why I took LR to Big Wave Beach to every level where I felt like "I've got nothing" spammed 3 lines of it and magic, stage cleared. It's basically a Starfruit of PvZ2 - easily spammable, multi-lanes, can hit multiple targets - that's the main point. It decimates hoards, it's not meant for singular strong foes - it's supposed to take care of the crowd. And it does it job too good. It's honestly a brain dead. And it works good with Snapdragon. I like that combination.

[@swordsmancs]

I love lightning reed, I usually set up two or three columns of them behind a column of snap dragons and that handles pretty much everything that isn’t a gigantaur

[@joselee9605]

I love how brain dead it is to use the plant. All the gimmicks like excavator zombie or jester do nothing, bot swarms and chickens do nothing, and on top of all that it hits 3 lanes and dps is more like area damage

[@ssshadow_0068]

1 lightning reed on its own: 'I'm too weak..' 4 columns of lightning reed: 'UNLIMITED POWER!'

[@gaminganimators7000]

I've found that saving plant food till the end of a level and then giving multiple lightning reeds the plant food. If completely destroys EVERYTHING

[@peppermintmiso4341]

every time i watch a pvz video talking about balancing, experimenting, and different tools for different problems, i'm always glad the Battle Cats got it right with Type Restrictions and Enemy Resistance. Make levels that outright ban a whole type of plant or make lightning reed paralyze metals or smth idk

[@Timeless56_No.256_a]

new subscriber for getting me back to pvz2 after not playing it for a LONG time! (around basically years ago)

[@tezereth]

Waiting for da coconut cannon video, I always considered it kinda bad until recently and now I think it’s very strong

[@DavisPetersen-k7u]

I think a really good rework to the lightning reed would be to increase recharge by 20%, half the fire rate (very slow), increase damage by 35%, and make it so it deals extra damage to metal zombies (bucketheads, zombie mechs...). As a final touch, the lightning cannot arc far away from the inital hit, so now the damage is not global, but still can chain to other surrounding lanes.

[@Giyga]

Lightning Reed is one of my favourite plants and I have not played this game in really long, I am pleasantly surprised to see people finding Lightning Reed a good plant

[@LOL_MANN]

3:56 Bruh I use that sound as my alarm lol

[@maestrosyrex]

Best way to describe it in my eyes, its one for all and all for one. If you have a bunch of them, you have an amazing damage dealer. If he's alone or with only 1 or 2, he'll be very weak.

[@taniatokustar7737]

Lightning reed really shines best when acompanied by other stronger plants Defineatly a amazing support attacker

[@ImmortalLemon]

I see it as being the right tool for a specific job, it’s given to you to deal with those chickens and sometimes the weasels so I just use them whenever they show up or if there’s a lot of power plant food tiles because I like the plant food ability

[@mb654bloopers]

Wintermelon synergizes really well with Lightning reed. Wintermelons will slow zombies down and pile them up, then lightning reeds can use their chain attacks on the pile of zombies. And in return lightning reed kills the weaker zombies as well as special zombies like parasol and jester quickly so that wintermelon can focus fire on the tanky zombies. Wintermelon is also very expensive, but since lightning reed is cheap, you get to save up sun to buy them and set up much quicker, compared to another more expensive aoe like laser bean or slower set ups like moonflower/dusk lobber.

[@marxxplaysgames]

No matter if you like it or hate it, you gotta admit that it's satisfying to see a field get completely fried from a horde of reeds

[@arturoporraz6046]

LV9 lightning reed owner here, I don't need more plants because this one mostly oneshots zombies and when using plantfood I get the same effect as the blueberry. Also using lv8 puff-shroom, I get an invincible duo. So, yes, if you don't power up, these 2 plants are weak, but if you poer up them, you don't need anything else

[@gethk.gelior4214]

It shoots three lanes so your average zombie can get focused down by three lanes' worth of firepower, and then throw in the chain reaction, it's like every reed you plant down will be damaging something at any given time, and when in waves, all of them are hitting everything, and it feels really powerful.

[@toxic_wolfyt6777]

I find lightning reed to be powerful early game, just place 2 down on the 2nd and 4th tile (going down) and you basically shutdown the zombies attack until the last hoard or final hoard when there are more zombies that have more health / armor

[@sandwich336]

Tile turnip is an amazing plant when used on a plant that can wipe out the entire lane with its plant food

[@Puppet443]

Lighting Reed is like a crowd control plant, except overpowered in multiples

[@lewisjohnson4887]

I only like it because it can hit multiple lanes and it’s quite good if your on a limited plant level because if you put 3 in the spots that are not end lanes it can hit everything and it’s plant food affect is pretty good to

[@AidanDaGreat]

See, the thing is lighting reed can be both great and awful because it can exist in multiple states at one time. This is a clever reference to the electron, which is related to electricity.