How (Not) To Tell a Meaningful Zombie Story

[@LikeStoriesofOld]

What's your favorite zombie story? Let me know below! And if you like my work, you can support me on Patreon and get some cool rewards: www.patreon.com/LikeStoriesofOld

[@dbix11]

28 weeks later was good, showed the hubris of science trying to control a virus....hey wait a minute

[@LikeStoriesofOld]

@Christian Linneberg I always add a list in the description, and try to answer as many comments as possible from people looking for specific clips at specific timestamps, hope that helps!

[@citaprevia9833]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYiZnYylaqaAr9E the Surge trailor : how they will collapse Society for its reboot !! using the Scapegaot !! they will use Dew´s (directed energy weapons) and LSD/Project blue beam for full effects! --- reclaim the *Scapegoat* or be lost in fake is.Real and Love is not pretending !!

[@JohnHolmes3.0]

For me, it is the book World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War. I think it perfectly captures so many aspects of humanity and its response to crises. I was glad to see you thought the same of it.

[@yhsa]

WWZ book.... it's realistic and very entertaining

[@brunomarkovic6651]

my father is a huge movie lover and we used to often sit down talking about films, what makes a story well written, and what genre is the most ambitious to make. Unfortunately, he doesn't like horrors at all, but, when it comes to zombies, he always had an interesting yet simple way of reassuming what is that makes them so effective and scary and, basically, an exception among fictional monsters. He says "what's scarier than an animal? A human who behaves like an animal"

[@hungsolo28]

Humans are animals.

[@LucasN00b]

@@hungsolo28 he meant like a wild animal, we are "not wild" (forgot the word)

[@brunomarkovic6651]

@@hungsolo28 yeah it'd have been more accurate to translate to "beast"… we're not english natives

[@brunomarkovic6651]

@@LucasN00b also, if you think about it, zombies are products of our deep rooted fear of crowds and social loneliness. The idea of being one vs everybody, and the anxiety of being overwhelmed by a mass of people. One zombie in the dark is stupid and isn't scary, while a thousand zombies in a square at daylight are a hellish nightmare.

[@LucasN00b]

@@brunomarkovic6651 yes, it's also about the fear of not being able to trust anyone, the fear of your family turning into monsters trying to eat you.

[@TheDwarfInator]

I’ve been telling my fiancée the reason I enjoy the zombie genre so much is because it is a great setting for character studies. The plots are nearly the same (as you put it, “seek shelter, engage enemy”), so, imo, the zombie stories that focus more on the characters, how they come together, and how they address their situations is much more entertaining than simply watching a group of near super soldiers gunning down mobs of the undead (or infected). That’s why stories like 28 Days Later, Train to Busan, and The Ravenous hold particular spots in my love for the genre.

[@ScEscapism]

Train to busan is A GEM, peninsula tho we do not talk about

[@C0wb0yBebop]

Hell yes !!! Extra points for mentioning Ravenous

[@sd-wc9ep]

Znation is really great imo, one of my favorite shows

[@lexxstrum]

To your point, I love how a post apocalyptic story, especially a zombie story, gives you a chance to change someone's position in society. Daryl from Walking Dead is a good example of this: if the zombies didn't happen, he would have been a meth dealing biker dude, probably in prison. But after zombies, he's a better person; hell, he becomes a HERO.

[@tomemeornottomeme1864]

Also, a genre with pre-established norms like this means that you are not spending time building context and explaining things. People know how zombies work, so often zombie stories don't have to dwell on what the hell a zombie even is unless it's something the writer specifically wants. Having a pre-established setting and rules (ie, humans will form groups that eventually go to war, zombies can mutate into different, more dangerous versions, etc) means that you're sort of just working within that setting to create your own little story.

[@liz5100]

Your question at 7:10 about why zombies tend to be so prevalent in contrast to the list of other monsters you listed is really simple honestly: they're not copy righted.

[@matthewuzhere]

there are definitely other non-copyrighted monsters he mentioned, like dracula. but you make a good point

[@trequor]

@@matthewuzhere Vamps are in a close second place in terms of prevalence.

[@HeatherHolt]

You can literally make anything interesting from a philosophical standpoint. That’s a true talent my friend.

[@hakenbacker]

The best zombie story has to be World War Z, the book obviously, it is one of the few story's where humanity win, it talks about how no matter how bad humanity gets that we can work together and overcome as a species our problems Edit: Oh you do cover it, nice!

[@abaranihei2608]

I always found it strange that oportunistic behaviour is actually seen as good.

[@SirBlackReeds]

Or as a Sam put it, "there's some good in this world... and it's worth fighting for."

[@plaidpvcpipe3792]

Also, if you're Jewish (like me,) it's nice to see so many Jewish heroes in a story, and it's rather flattering to Jewish people.

[@maadtee6281]

But at what cost earth is still in a huge chaos and it is nuclear filled only zombie movie that I know where we overcome it is scouts guide to zombie and Shaun of the dead with Dead Days a webtoon being just as good just is more inspired by the zombie mythos from Haiti

[@GnomePuntTrainerYT]

I'm currently reading the book, and in the middle of this pandemic I can hardly take it serious. So many of the little stories are based on how solid the logic and facts were by the newly risen leaders or architects of different plans, but in reality people refuse to take a vaccine or wear a face mask. World War Z is a solid fiction, but not a fiction because of the zombie virus. I do however wish HBO or somebody like that picks up the rights to make a tv show with each episode being a standalone story from the book

[@ThrottleKitty]

I've always felt zombies were just a literary tool to make a bad guy that's the amazing trifecta of A) Always moral to kill B) Always understood by the audience and C) Can pose a threat OR be easily dispatched depending on context. As a writer, I always loved them for this reason alone.

[@shovas]

Probably true but the great thing about human psychology is that even our seemingly shallowest intentions stem from incredible depths of meaning.

[@maadtee6281]

Unfortunately most zombie books suck

[@ThrottleKitty]

@@nothinglessthanutopia conflating enjoying fiction to literal fascism does nothing but normalize fascism. Is that your intent? To compare being a fascist to reading a book?

[@The_Sleepiest_Socialist]

And they can be a secondary threat. Most apocalyptic dangers would be the biggest threat within their world. A zombie can be dangerous in the beginning, take a backseat when the characters get more competent (but you have to show your characters getting competent) and the main threat becomes other people who clash with the protagonists for any reason. Then you can make the zombies dangerous in different ways and situations. I think my first book will be about zombies (I’m 15 and I plan on writing as a secondary job).

[@roberthipolito1351]

just last year in the middle of the pandemic, alone, having lost my job, behind on rent, no money and running dry basic stuff like food, I would fantasize about zombie outbreaks. Wishing that society could just fall to something like this because it would mean I could at least go into some store and steal food and it wouldn't matter, nothing would matter anymore. No shitty jobs, no rent, no worries of little money, no sleepless nights thinking on how I'll never achieve anything. if it all went to hell I would only have to worry about survival and none of the meaningless constructs imposed by a society. one year later I'm back to who I was before the pandemic, unfulfilled, alone, trying to figure out what the hell I'm doing and why; i hate it.

[@shovas]

Lots of people have those thoughts. I recommend Jordan Peterson as a jumping off point to help you with direction and meaning.

[@losgryfog]

Same. I'm really working out how to arrange myself for going onto the Appalachian trail and spending 6 or so months of my life and where or if I'll come out someplace new

[@melaniey.5596]

I wouldn’t recommend Jordan Peterson, he is as likely to push you to a rabbit hole of empty meaning, where you get meaning from othering people, and only a butchered version of the original wisdom. If you are interested about what he has to offer, I recommend you look into the original sources he taps from. Like the works of Carl Jung and Buddhist teachings (a good start is “The voice of the silence” from H.P. Blavatsky). But honestly, the only thing I can recommend is, make friends, join a group, with whom you can talk many things about, not only shared interests. Forge bonds. Ask others about themselves (everyone loves talking about themselves, and you may find many interesting things that way, I do). Having a network of social support greatly helps when going though harsh times. I hope things get better for you.

[@Tracker947]

I feel you. I've contemplated just leaving everything behind and hitting the road as a bum until something kills me so many times

[@thefutureisnowoldman7653]

@@shovas Are you trying to help him or make him a buzz kill

[@matthewmercer623]

How to summarize the oversaturation of zombie media in one sentence: "Hey Joe, you wanna play a zombie game?"

[@TheEmeraldWeirdo]

Boy, is that an understatement. Seems like half the survival-style games that come out nowadays are zombie-based. And they're all basically the same game, too.

[@yhsa]

Most of us find ourselves truly detached from reality and we also immerse ourselves into video games . Because we found one thing that outside world lacks....a purpose.

[@zianawind2970]

That sounds overly simplistic at first but really nails it. It took me a while to understand.. I liked video games since I was a kid 30 years ago.. stopped now e then. I’m not lost in it it’s just my favorite pass time now e then.. after years living in India and Japan etcetera I’m basically a hermit and still like video games a lot, it’s the sense of simplified purpose that I find enjoyable and relaxing.. funny I hadn’t put the finger on it.

[@johnortiz3745]

@@zianawind2970 We immerse our ourselves in other forms. Where we would feel part of a lore. Dnd or cyberpunk is good example of a immersive world.

[@orangewarm1]

Most of us? I dont play video games. Am I in the minority? My brothers and sisters dont play video games, or my neice and nephew.

[@derek96720]

@@orangewarm1 using your family as a model for what constitutes normal behavior is a statistically flawed method for figuring out what the average is. It's too anecdotal. That said, I doubt the majority of people play video games.

[@rustyshackleford3160]

Or yoy know, cuz video games are fun. If I could live out my Life's dream of conquering Mordor I would. I'm not mentally ill because I enjoy escapist fiction

[@qlementin]

I recommend reading the book "Zombies in Western Culture: A Twenty-First Century Crisis" to anyone who is interested in the symbolic significance of the Zombie, and why it has become so pervasive in western pop-culture.

[@vib2119]

Isn't that the book John Vervaeke was the co-author of? I would also recommend his KZbin series of lectures about "Awakening from the meaning crisis", it's very long but highly recommended. I haven't come around watching the rest of his stuff yet but those I have watched and they are great! An intro to that series: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJTHZ6Rvqq54mtk

[@PolishBehemoth]

It's because it gives people an enemy to fight as evil when morality and any sense there of is looked down upon in western society.

[@ladyshaya]

There's a point I disagree with that I find important for the meaning of zombie stories; zombies aren't dead, they're _undead_. At least for me, it's about when the parts of us we can't let go of (let die) take over and suppress our ability to reason and empathize, turning us into mindless monsters of utter inhumanity. That too is something that seems at times like a contagion. Like how the Jungian Shadow possesses someone and tend to trigger possessions in others (imagine how comment fields sooner or later tend to degrade into a triggerfest). I think this is an important point because it takes us back to how to not be a zombie yourself: deal with your inner monsters, and let go of the parts of you that are, and need to stay, dead.

[@Tracker947]

While I agree with your interpretation in isolation, I will say that I disagree that it is the most holistically correct, and for one reason. While your point can be specifically applied to certain zombie stories, it doesn't really do a good job of acknowledging that becoming a zombie is, in the vast majority of circumstances, completely and utterly outside of one's control. It doesn't matter what manor of life you find yourself in, whether you are at peace or in turmoil, whether you have mastered your darkness or it has mastered you, both fall to nothing before the archetypal zombie. The zombie doesn't pose the threat of being overcome by your inner monsters, the zombie poses a question. How will you look at your fellow man when at any moment they could become a threat?

[@RAFI205]

About that argument that zombies can't truly be great character I can recomend the first season of In the Flesh. It's an interesting take on cured zombies that were reintroduced into the society after ending of a zombie apocalypse.

[@RAFI205]

great video btw ;)

[@bobbyf1741]

@@RAFI205 Check out The Girl With All The Gifts for another great zombie character. There are even more zombie protagonist in novelization. The Monster Planet series comes to mind. I also recall reading a short story which was from the first person point of view of the zombie. Her thoughts on her actions were as normal to her as any living persons would be about theirs.

[@neooblisk0084]

@@bobbyf1741 What book was it?

[@alexengland-shinemercy]

In The Flesh was amazing. I loved it all of it and just wish it had been given a chance to reach a prooer conclusion v

[@danielwadford3699]

Even then, they're unzombified and turned back into humans. The premise sounds similar to the show True Blood which is about vampires assimilating into human society and trying to gain rights however, unlike True Blood, In The Flesh does not have zombies demanding citizenship and rights but has FORMER zombies trying to reintegrate into human society. In The Flesh is to True Blood what Warm Bodies is to Twilight. However, just like with Warm Bodies, In the Flesh is about turning the zombies back into humans and not actually having the zombies themselves as characters the same way Twilight and True Blood use vampires. 12 years ago, we had teenage girls being asked if they wanted to date either a vampire or werewolf. Imagine if they were asked about dating a zombie; out of those three monsters, they would definitely not date a zombie. I don't think we'll ever see a story about a woman falling in love with a zombie being bit and becoming a zombie herself so she can be with her zombie lover forever or zombies demanding equal rights and citizenship in a human society. The only way either of these could work is by having them as comedies and not serious stories or have the zombies unzombified and turned back into humans.

[@lunso3811]

Zombies came from Haiti, and from enslavd people living there. It started after the fear of "What if they also take our soul?". After learning this zombies have become the fear of losing yourself for me. Sadly I feel like this is never shown in any media tho

[@TRAMP-oline]

Part of it does exist, albeit divorced from colonialism. In that context the Haitian zombie is a beautiful cry for help, like a dream made real by a people desperate to exist for at least one more day. In Telltale Games' The Walking Dead there is a song used for two ending credits titled "Take Us Back," and one of the entrenched themes of the games is the retention of humanity. While the cries of slaves are long since forgotten, the shape of their cries live on and inspire others to hope in the face of hopelessness.

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

​@@TRAMP-oline the voodoo zombies do exist

[@mikebasil4832]

Despite my original fandom of Night Of The Living Dead, I'm not a watcher of zombie stories anymore. But reflections on why they can still have their place in our entertainment are always fascinating. Thank you for including them on your channel. 🧟

[@hendrsb33]

Perhaps it's a weariness with our society, feeling and acting like mindless automatons, doing largely the same things every day, bound by rules-- both social and economic-- that keep us in the same existence loop... over and over and over again. Wanting to be free. Wanting to blow shit up. Wanting release from all things we feel obligated to do and getting on with things we want to do. There's more reasons than I can come up with in a YT comment. Personally, I don't care much about the zombie genre and I'm here wondering why others do.

[@LordofSadFac]

Youre not far from a solid point, after all the Zombie genre started as social commentary, something that hasnt changed in the last years. Zombies tend to be used as plot devices to send a message or cause an event, like for example as mentioned in Dawn of the Dead, with how we tend to consume mindlessly in malls, while other movies just use them at face value like Army of the Dead with a cheap metaphor for autoritharian border patrol.

[@hendrsb33]

@@LordofSadFac I feel closest to zombie-dom whenever I have to stand in a long line or do my taxes. As far as zombie movies go, I'm of the NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD generation. The young me was probably as much into zombies as anyone but I grew out of it and they don't hold any special interest to me anymore. It would, however, be interesting to see zombies go back to its roots of Haitian zombie lore... but I think that may have been done already. Can't remember the movie's name. KOLCHAK THE NIGHT STALKER had an episode with a Haitian zombie too. C'est la vie...

[@losgryfog]

@@hendrsb33 I feel like the main issue with the modern comprehension of zombie movies, is that people want them to be one thing when they never were that to begin with. From the original NOTLD half of the whole is the effect on humanity, how we will react and who will take on what role, what will the landscape become. With everything going on currently, for me, zombie movies seem more relevant now than ever 😂

[@Tracker947]

The desire for the zombie apocalypse and fascination for it comes from the want for society as we know it to break down so that we can be free from a mundane and repetitive existence and the things we feel that bind us down. It is a release. Just like many other fantasies, it's just the traits unique to a zombie apocalypse resonate more with some people than the fantasy of say, falling into another world with super powers.

[@paulatreides0777]

For the reasons you stated mate

[@rubncarmona]

Hey Tom, take a look at In The Flesh!! A series about people that were resurrected as zombies without explanation. After some years they're cured from the zombieish part of it, becoming just humans again but now have some physical and psychological sequelae.

[@stalfithrildi5366]

Really interesting way to use zombies to discuss Othering and discrimination within modern societies

[@salmongod9115]

I think you skirted around the edges of the most important aspect of the genre: How human beings relate socially to the modern world. I think the zombie formula taps into two fundamental issues with living in a global industrial media-soaked society. First, we are constantly surrounded by more people than we have the capacity to have empathy for. The majority of human history and evolution took place in hunter/gatherer tribes and small villages, where you were intimately familiar with most other human beings you came in contact with. The majority of humanity lives in cities now. We are constantly exposed to people we know nothing about, and we don't necessarily recognize them as human in the same way we recognize our friends, families, co-workers, etc. Second, the nature of our survival struggles have changed. This you came much closer to nailing. Pre-industrial, our struggles were material scarcity and direct violence (dangerous animals, marauders). Post-industrial revolution, we aren't subjected to material or violent struggle so much. Rather, we are, but we engage with those struggles ideologically. Our society subjects people to scarcity and violence all the time, but who gets subjected to those things is largely the result of ideological struggles. As the new ideological axis of conflict has progressed, it's compounded on itself in multiple ways. It's grown in complexity, with ideologies becoming more fractured by details. And the combination of mass media with post-cold war consumerism pressuring everyone into more social atomization has caused ideology to be the manner in which most of us process and interact with the rest of the world outside of our small social circles. What this amounts to is a vague feeling we all carry of the modern world being a hostile place, even though that hostility rarely confronts us in a personal way. This translates into a generalized anxiety about those outside of our social group, who we process as soulless until proven otherwise. As opposed to ourselves and the people in our lives that we directly know, who feel vibrantly soulful by comparison. The infectious nature of zombies, as you noticed, relates to our anxiety about those we care about becoming like the rest of the world. To lose someone to the zombie plague is to see someone fall to sympathetic for ideals that we fail to understand and feel threatening to us. Or to watch them fade from familiarity and assimilate into a different social group, becoming one of the crowd. And boiling underneath it all is this overwhelming sense of being outnumbered by these soulless others. This sense of being part of the band of colorful characters in a world infested with innumerable hordes of soulless beings who want to consume you for reasons you don't understand. I think everyone feels like they're in a zombie apocalypse already, but that feeling is deeply buried and vague. The reason zombie stories resonate so strongly is it brings those feelings to the surface, and provides a sort of language for what's otherwise just a vague subconscious existential paranoia. And the reason the violent apocalypse aspect of these story settings is so appealing is because of the juxtaposition of conflicts that we're wired to innately understand - material scarcity and violence - clashing directly with the conflicts we struggle with in reality - vague subconscious existential paranoia. And the zombie genre lends itself so well to social commentary - ANY social commentary, because every social issue relates to these fundamental elements of how human beings socially relate to the modern world. The mysterious, infectious nature of ideological struggle, and the overwhelming of our social capacities forcing us to process the world in terms of characters or zombies. And the best zombie stories are the ones that highlight how its our capacity to have empathy and to compromise and organize effectively within this sociological landscape that needs to evolve in order for the modern world to succeed. The rise of zombies represents how the world has changed. The apocalypse represents our failure to adapt to that change. It's the world we will have if our better natures don't prevail, and we know this.

[@alexxx4434]

Spot on.

[@samhinnant4416]

Zombie movies for me speak of a time most people of the modern era have never experienced. Where your only thought are to survive for one more day. And in our own world where we have so many different worries this is somewhat romantic that anyone of us could be the hero of this simplified world.

[@sammyboi8938]

The interesting thing I like in zombie stories is what it does to society. Zombie apocalypse will inevitably crumble social constructs so while zombies are a threat to Humanity, the thing we should fear the most is Humanity itself. Zombies are predictable, they only want to eat you. Humans are not, their objectives varies and their willingness is unparalleled.

[@Tracker947]

This is wrong. Zombies do not crumble social constructs. In order for social constructs to crumble, humans would have to make it crumble themselves. Humanity shouldn't necessarily fear anything, as fear isn't inherently positive or negative. It isn't wrong to fear what you fear. But that is the threat of the zombie: the threat that at any moment, anyone, no matter how well you know or love them, could become a threat to your life that you are unable to reason with in any way. The threat of the zombie is the destruction of humanity brought about by our fear for each other.

[@darleengeary8414]

Like Stories of Old... I am so incredibly grateful to have stumbled on your channel a few years ago. You have been the one voice that I can always come to and feel human again and not alone. You have always touched my heart with your soothing voice and deep attention to detail. A true understanding of the human nature and a breathtaking way of unfolding a story and the understanding of it all. Thank you Thank you Thank you

[@bub6590]

There is also, from another culture, the manga "Attack on Titan", where the titans are essentially giant zombies, created from humans. I think, in this particular story, that they are the physical manifestation of the "monster within each of us", wich is soulless, eternally hungry, and attacks everyone (but only humans) indiscriminately. In the manga, only one race of humans (the eldians) can transform into titans, and this fact is used as an excuse by other humans to scapegoat and oppress them.

[@darkesttimeline7026]

I've always thought aot was like "the walking dead" of anime

[@duckduckbobo5208]

I think AOT is so wonderful because it not only captures the essence of the zombie genre, but also the war genre. If you haven't already seen LSOO's analysis of war movies, you definitely should.

[@urbiznesnunuv6938]

Boku no seagull

[@joshuajoaquin5099]

@@darkesttimeline7026 highschool of the dead is more like the walking dead but sadly author died before finishing the storu

[@ushikiii]

@@joshuajoaquin5099 a very perverted version of it for sure.

[@davidbecquer3624]

I am SO happy you decided to use the "Total War" quote from WWZ. That is, for me, the essence of what makes zombies so terrifying.

[@gamonstudios]

My favorite version of this is the walking dead comic. The tv show did a good job but lost its track trying to keep the attention of the viewers with constant cliffhangers, drastic character changes and death fake outs. The comic shows how the world can turn the nicest people into the most hardened killers, but at the same time with the need to rely on community.

[@rina5221]

And it also had a [SPOILER] Ending where the humanity (both as a species and as a quality) wins

[@KeyserSoseRulz]

What I really like about zombies is that they break all laws of thermodynamics, especially by spending more energy than they produce. lol.

[@hezlerb7239]

I've always seen it as a fascination with death and immortality; Zombies embody deaths seemingly disconnected, indiscriminate and ravenous nature a perfect mirror of our disconnection with death itself... Also consumerism metaphor and a slap to the face to our idea of social interaction; showing us the difference between actually socializing and surviving vs passing each other by in a relatively safe city and boasting about how social we are.

[@reyals66]

I'm currently working on a zombie screenplay and the timing of this video couldn't have been any better. Thank you @Like Stories Of Old

[@PsychoRavager]

Like Stories of Old always has a way to make me tear up! Beautiful video!

[@sarahmartin2464]

I’ve been thinking about this concept for two whole years. Thank you for making a video that verbalized precisely how I’ve felt and never been able to explain

[@rsiraistlin2473]

I read once that in the past, man was afraid of the forests. The deep, dark, unknown. That howl that you werent sure was behind that nearest tree or miles away. In modern society, the narrative flipped. We conquered those spooky woods. In doing so though, the city became the spooky area and the faceless masses became the threat. The zombies.

[@Zack-xv2yc]

Hey man, can you talk about *immortality* in stories next?? I've always wanted to know what immortals think about humanity. Like, if there's an immortal that have lived for millennia said he/she had lost faith in humanity, what would be your response? How do you argue with someone that literally has WAY MORE experience that you could ever have about such a subject? Could make a great video.

[@lessonzlrnd]

Thank you my friend for your commitment and vision. I thoroughly enjoy your storytelling.

[@visvivalaw]

No genre is ever over saturated. It's a cycle. Someone makes a good movie in [genre]. It makes money. So many others make a similar movie in [genre], most of which suck because most movies suck. And because of that a bunch of movies in [genre] fail and movie critics blame the public being tired of [genre] movies. So movies in [genre] stop being made for a while until someone dares to make a good movie in [genre] and the cycle repeats. No one is ever, ever tired of good movies.

[@visvivalaw]

By the way, George Romero's "Night of the Living Dead" is not the origin. Romero said in several interviews that he was inspired by the 1966 Vincent Price movie "Last Man on Earth" where the "undead" were a kind of vampire. Side note: "Last Man on Earth" was the first of three movies based on the Richard Matheson novel "I Am Legend", the other two being the Charlton Heston movie "The Omega Man" and Wil Smith's "I Am Legend".

[@hondaguy9153]

That line about the stories becoming too depressing...oof. That's when I quit watching the walking dead. How, when and why Glen was murdered was too much for me.

[@romanmanner]

Same. Once that happened, with Abraham too - I realized this was all TWD was gonna be. The world is depressing enough without having to grow attached to characters in our stories to only have them die in purposefully shocking ways for ratings. Too bad about the show, really. It could've really been something great.

[@Eduardo-jk8bl]

You have to catch up to season 9, maybe even skipping season 8. Angela Kang was hired as the new showrunner for the show and hell yeah if it got upgraded in writing... directing... quality... hell the entire show after Scott Gimple butchered it. Humane, actual nice dialogue and no slaps on our faces with plot armor, jumping the shark moments and cliffhangers. Depressive tone? Searching for a more light hearted or at least an attempt to? With some hope and work for it? You get a mix of both. All very well approached and worked on. It is just a much better show. I don't agree with the point of quitting the show over their deaths. The show really went straight down to hell after that episode, but not because of their deaths but the slopiness of the responsible for working on the show. Season 7/8 are very very fucking poor. We all have moments in life that it may seem that we're getting beat up and will never get up but that doesn't mean that we will be cursed with that forever we can't get up and beat our obstacles. Not gonna lie, I believe that quitting the show for that reason and expecting only depression further on was kinda dumb. I believe that this episode was sure traumatizing, but it was a great one. Still... I strongly suggest you to watch season 9. You can see a quick recap of season 7 and 8 if you wish. Regarding Glenn and Abraham: Not trying to be Negan's lawyer here but... Rick took the deal of working with Gregory from Hilltop and agreed with his plan of killing lots of saviors in their sleep during a raid. Carol and Maggie on their stand-alone episode took care of another supporting squad. Rick agreed to hurt the Saviors hard and ended up paying the price, and Negan was quite humble, took only two of them down. Ratings-wise: Glenn and Abraham's death was set in the same period in the comics. Abraham being a bit earlier so... Their deaths was inevitable or otherwise they would get a lot of backlash from the comic fans and Negan wouldn't have sent a better message for Rick's group. Well... That's it, I hope you give season 9 a good chance and if you do, I hope you enjoy it. Wtf am I doing answering a 4 week old comment...? idk.

[@hondaguy9153]

@@Eduardo-jk8bl maybe I'll check out 9 at some point. It wasn't straight up about Glen, but that whole scene was particularly awful. I watched a few more episodes after that. Part of the reason I quit was not having access to watch the show anymore.

[@DavidDude87]

I never watched that scene for a second time. The way they depicted it was so unnecessary. I felt almost unable to care because I was so shocked. I just asked myself; How f**ed up do you have to be that all the mutilation doesn't seem to be enough to pull off something like this.

[@torstenw5723]

I stopped watching the walking dead because it went on too long...there shouldn't even have been hordes of zombies after like 3 weeks due to decay.

[@cursedsummoner]

You mentioning Minecraft and an interest in zombie games. This was me a couple of years ago, after playing Minecraft for a long time I was looking for something new and came across a group of guys, youtube channel Achievement Hunter, playing 7 days to die. The game was recommended to me by coworker a few years before, at the time I brushed it off since I was still having fun with Minecraft. After watching the Achievement Hunters paly I knew I had to check it out, and it scare the pants off me the first time. Since then I mostly played with friends, strength in numbers and it's more fun surviving in a group rather than alone. Here's me going on, what I wanted to ask is, if you've heard of the game. It does play into the power fantasy you mention, it does however come with it's own difficulties. If you haven't, my suggestion is to look it up.

[@DouglasHollingsworth1]

Night Eats The World and #Alive have been some of my favorite zombie films in the past 12-16 months BECAUSE they're not the bland "guns and violence solves everything" survival fantasies that have infected (pun intended) US culture ... they're both about surviving the end of the world and still staying human. The first one's from France and is on Amazon Prime (?) and I believe the second one was Korean and on Netflix (?)

[@jb76489]

America is bad

[@Dapryor]

This year I read The Walking Dead graphic novel series. The author has a forward in the first volume where he says that he was more interested in how people would behave when the world crumbles. And the zombies were more or less an entertaining plot device.

[@user-jn1wm3tb8v]

What were your thoughts on it?

[@TheJudgeandtheJury]

In high school I wrote my first screenplay which I threw away on a zombie apocalypse, it was pretty much The Last Of Us, The Road, I Am Legend(in terms of apocalypse sense) and 28 Days Later. I liked Zack Snyder’s take on zombies in his remake of Dawn Of The Dead the best and it’s messages towards consumer society as you have mentioned in the video. Great upload as always. Looking forward to more content.

[@DustyPalmer]

Amazing video! I'm a huge zombie fan, always have been since I was young, and you just put all my subconscious thoughts on "why do I love zombie stories?" Into one video and really brought the words to explain what makes such stories so meaningful!

[@aidan3124]

TWD season 1 game captures your idea very well, sure there was evil humans in the story but Lee and Clementines bond shows hope in humanity during the worst of times.

[@javejabemja]

I think it's wonderful how, regardless of the topic adressed, I always finish watching your videos with tears in my eyes. Thank you, your work and research are amazing :)

[@thepixalking6589]

I think the idea that we are seeking a life where we get back in touch with the basics, the essentials, is the most compelling metaphor in our current culture. People are bored with to many distractions now. Their life lacks meaning. Zombies boil us down to the essentials, and males especially are craving that now.

[@radioactive_angel]

Best birthday gift ever! Awesome analysis!

[@LikeStoriesofOld]

Happy birthday! :D

[@thomashiggins9320]

Okay, this should be an interesting video, because I think zombies are the *stupidest* monsters, ever. An unintelligent thing that behaves with absolute predictability, and makes no attempt at self-preservation, is (at best) a temporary annoyance, quickly resolved. Even "fast zombies" pose little in the way of additional danger. This whole genre, in general, is just dumb -- notwithstanding the occasional outlier story that's actually decent. If he can find something meaningful, beyond the obvious allusions to consumer culture, then I'll be impressed. I think the cynical lack of compassion is one of the key attractions of zombie stories. Some people find quite attractive a dead-simple, "Us vs Them" story of violent tribalism. In our complex social realities, some people just don't have the patience (or the willingness) to put in the work necessary to find a way to get along with others -- especially, others who perceive the world quite differently. They're already tribal, and the world they live in is already minimal, because their limited ability to create meaningful relationships circumscribes the "success" (however that's defined) they can attain. They don't want to *have* to tolerate. They don't want to *have* to figure out how to get along. They don't want to *have* to figure out ways to live together, peacefully. They don't want to *have* to live according to the rules and constraints of modern civil society. To them, a zombie simply personifies every other human being they don't want to have to get to know. And they get to blow the brains out of "those people." It's simple life, in a simple world, in which they think they get to be big fish, because the pond is so much smaller. That simplicity, combined with the tremendous violence that "solves" the conflict, provides a visceral, atavistic, cathartic experience for people frustrated at the difficulties they face, in real life. That said, many of us value the great gifts to humanity, and enjoy some modicum of personal success, enabled by modern civilization -- as annoyingly complex as that may be. For many of us, I think, zombie movies hold very little in the way of any sort of attraction -- but that, of course, means we're the ones many fans of the genre want to see zombified. That way, they can blow our brains out. But that's also what made the book, "World War Z" so good. The interviews showed humanity at our best -- our most resilient, our most hopeful -- at our great willingness to work, together. Some of the stories, such as the one told by the woman who got trapped, with her family, at a campground in Canada with not enough food, were pretty horrible. But most stories in the book were much more satisfying.

[@lsporter88]

Very accurate and thorough analysis in my humble opinion. Great video.

[@connorgahan5197]

IN THE OTHER DEAD AND ZOMBIE ZOOLOGY ONLY ANIMALS CAN BECOME ZOMBIES BUT DESTORYING THEIR BRAINS/BRAINSTEMS DOES NOT STOP THEM AND THEY CAN STILL FEEL SIMPLE EMOTIONS LIKE RAGE FEAR AND PLEASURE IF THEY USED TO BE DOMESTIC PETS OR CAPTIVE WILDLIFE, THEY WOULD FEEL RAGE FEAR AND EVEN REMORSE IF YOU EVER HAD PETS, YOU KNOW THEY CAN FEEL ENRAGED AND REMORSEFULL

[@dogmiagy]

Lovely essay as always :)

[@gentleman8550]

Cried imagining how it would devastate you to shoot or kill your loved one, it would strip out the purpose and meaning to live. How blessed we are to love our kin, our partners and not to take ourselves for granted. A beautiful purpose to live for and cherish.

[@Tracker947]

It would not be devastating to shoot the empty shell of what was once your loved one, it would be devastating that they became an empty shell in the first place.

[@michaeljohn8883]

Beautiful, insightful and important work as always LSOO! Your work is a gift to the world.

[@BuenButter6211]

Another wonderful video on one of my favorite genres, thank you

[@bloggersjournalph9669]

wow your video is great , has a point, and gives deeper meaning to zombie stories. First view in this channel and I'm staying for more

[@arcadianmorning]

The Walking Dead is my favorite TV show, in large part because it has done an amazing job of exploring grief over the seasons. All different kinds of grief, the stages of grief, the things it makes you do, the way it changes you. The number of times that show has made me cry is impressive for a zombie thriller. They do a great job of creating 3-dimensional characters that feel real. I've always thought of the zombie element as a plot device to tell some truly beautiful, heartbreaking, and even occasionally uplifting stories! But I also love an occasional scare/gory moment so it hits everything for me.

[@JoshGarciaJGG]

I completely agree.. For mee its not about the zombies in zombie movies/shows.. It's about the characters and how they overcome and react to the end of the world and the losses they live with..

[@Ona1979]

There is a series on Netflix called, In The Flesh, where the zombies are the protagonists. There is a treatment that when taken every day, brings humanity back to the infected person. They are still undead, but they have their personalities. They are taught by their doctors that they are not responsible for what they did in their untreated state, but there is a lot of prejudice towards them by a lot of people. They are in danger of being destroyed even though they are no longer a danger to anyone. There is another movie, where a zombie is the protagonis. It's called Fido. It's a dark comedy

[@Ona1979]

@@NoOne-wn9ju In The Flesh is on Netflix, but Fido isn't anymore

[@Numba003]

This video inspired a thematic breakthrough for me on a book I’m working on, extrapolating from your description of the overrunning of cynical individualism present in some of these zombie stories (even though my book has nothing to do with zombies). Thank you for that. Stay well out there, and God bless you friends. :)

[@ellamae5348]

Has anyone seen the Korean Netflix show Kingdom? Definitely my favourite new zombie story I've watched in a while, i love how they've gone about the zombies' inception. I guess koreans really know how to do zombies. It might be interesting to compare how different cultures present zombies.

[@ashagiris6298]

Yes! Absolutely loved both seasons and Ashin of the North. The writer of this series is amazing and she's also done a solid detective tv series called 'Signal' which I highly recommend 🤗

[@alexandrebeaudry8377]

I'm surprised you didn't use the footage of 28 days later when you talk about betrayal. When Don abandonned his wife from fear. Amazing video. I recently discover you channel and it's a pleasure to watch them and reflect with others

[@LIKEICARE84]

I think that film is called 28 weeks later. 28 days later is the one with the guy waking up in the hospital.

[@alexandrebeaudry8377]

@@LIKEICARE84 You are right.

[@tatlxtael2303]

I absolutely love the points you made about human cynicism and the most “compassionate thing you could do being a headshot”. I absolutely hate this cynical dynamic and wanna see more creative things done with it. Humanity breaking down and turning on each other is something I just can’t take for granted anymore

[@tatlxtael2303]

Specifically it makes me think of a moment in the first walking dead game season where one of the characters states- “I’ve seen this outbreak bring out both the best and worst in people- and it’s clear which it’s done for you” or something like that based on if your Lee has made positive or negative choices. It’s absolutely true that the scenario can bring out both aspects- but people who are selfish and only make enemies wouldn’t be able to survive just because of how much confrontation would break people/isolate them. More altruistic people could potentially make an actual community that could recover from it eventually.

[@DeusEx_Machina]

29:24 - paraphrased "hope... simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness." - the Architect

[@abhinavmankotia9867]

This video put all my thoughts and feelings about the zombie fantasy together in such a concrete and imaginative way that I could never have done myself. Thank You.

[@zleeven]

to me one of my favorite takes on the zombie genre has been the anime/manga school live. is the story of 4 girls that took shelter in their school with one having metal issues that causes her to deny the reality she lives in and the other 3 finding ways to keep her out of trouble. the series combines the lightheartedness of cute girls doing cute things with gritty and dark which gives the series an optimistic and hopeful feeling.

[@jonathanfonk5470]

Refreshing to hear about the survival fantasy. I have always had the theory that the reason I miss being deployed so much is that it was easier, all there was, was survival.

[@szeredaiakos]

I guess.. in war, you might die if you make a mistake, in bare survival you have a tiny chance if you do everything right. Not sure about the first one but I know the second from experience.

[@zephyr8072]

"Consumerism is bad. Anyway, pay to watch my zombie movie."

[@Aalpine001]

i don't know you but I LOVE YOU!

[@futurestoryteller]

I've thought about zombies for a long time, being a fan of George Romero and the social commentary of his movies. I don't think any symbol has a truly universal meaning for everyone. So the purpose of a zombie story depends on the teller, but I've had a theory for awhile that the staying power of zombies in the western world is because they encompass apocalyptic predictions made in the New Testament, particularly the resurrection of the dead, and all four of its horsemen. It puts an ironic twist on some of these things, but the parallels are easy to draw, and would seep into the cultural consciousness.

[@EricDaMAJ]

Zombies as mythological monsters don’t scare me. Zombies as metaphors for violent mob based social movements do - like nothing ever else ever has. I used to rely on George Carlin’s commentary on zombies that they _“…are so damn undependable.”_ Now I have this. Thank you from the bunker.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

I really wish for an monster apocalypse story were there is no "humans are the real monster" bullshit Just humanity comming together, more united, in a meaningful manner

[@burnu2240]

i feel like the general audience loves zombie movies, because it doesn't matter who you were, its who you are...and the sense of change...so its escapism/wanting to start your life over again

[@jamesmmcgill]

Man, I would love to see you make an essay video about Mad Men.

[@daveholland6293]

"Albelist" if you are being serious, that so stupid, I'm fat and I know my ass is dead if zombies can run.

[@rannyacernese6627]

The Dawn of the Dead remake captured the genres criticism of mindless western consumerism best. The mall as temple of capitalism and the endless appetite of the zombies and their desire to convert to the cause. The walking Dead’s major flaw was the idea of scarcity and the struggle to survive. In a nation with more guns than people why would you fight for weapons or cars or shelter. 95% of the population is gone. That constant struggle is needed to combat the way it would likely have occur, that people would band together and recreate society in all it’s complexity quickly ruining the simplicity of survival.

[@TheAjcostello5672]

I think the best thing about a well-done zombie story is that they can become used as a catalyst for an excellent character study. For me, it's not the scariness of the zombies and the horror of trying to survive in that world, but the chance to explore how the primary characters will adjust, change, and grow in that apocalyptic world. while I agree with everything you've pointed out, I like considering the way that every survivor would be dealing with some level of PTSD. Like EVERYONE will have to deal with the tragedy in some form or fashion. No one will be immune to the horror and appalling conditions. I'm currently exploring some of the concepts of the genre with my current TTRPG group. We actually had our twentieth session earlier tonight, as a matter of fact.

[@ARestlessMindYT]

Your videos are wonderful brother, Please don't ever stop making them. :)

[@magmadude35]

Had my attention the whole time, nice one man.

[@fintytin8528]

This perfectly sums up one of the biggest issues I've had with Zombie media. If humans were as distrustful, violent and selfish as they're portrayed in the genre, we'd never have had kingdoms, countries or any other great things we've built or achieved. Black Summer is terrible for this

[@Jones23Boy]

I love your video essays.

[@fireboy1210]

Great video! One question I would raise is, in this vain of the zombie being the antithesis of humanity and all we consider integral to humanity, how would something like the Planet of the Apes fit in? Much of our society is focused on linear progression forwards. While zombies are a good antonym to our current state of being, I think something like the apes provides another very interesting perspective in that they are not the opposite of us, instead they personify the idea that, in the branching web of possibilities that led to our evolution, we may have not been the 'right' choice. Not only does it not give an external enemy, like a zombie, to fight against, but it also explores a sense of existential doubt. I would love to hear your thoughts on that!

[@72Worker]

Zombie stories have become connected to End of the World stories. Very few show non end of the world stories with zombies.

[@juancampos1164]

i love your analysis (all you vides). While your zombie analysis is complete, you have to emphasize that “we are the zombies”, nothing more, nothing less. It has always been about how we react morally, regardless if we have hunger for humans or not. Some good movies are ‘Shawn of the Dead’- comedic, “Dawn of Dead’ Synder -commercialism, but also ‘WWZ’ , “Open Grave”, and “28 days…. [Series]” about confining to decisions about our biology. - Honestly, one of the great zombie movie is; “The Battery”, where it shows 2 viewpoints of morality of the unaffected (and very little of zombies). And for the survival, apocalyptic scenario, you don’t need that, just take our world as it is, all it shows is the emptiness failure of us, what we’ve done, and opening our eyes.

[@dbix11]

a license to commit violence and be on the run for adventure

[@cristarose503]

My favorite zombie property isn't a film, but a series. Kingdom is a beautifuly creative series. Another point is that I was watching another video essay that was talking about copyright law. Zombies were never copyrighted, so a wide range of creators have the opportunity of remaking them.

[@oscarhample]

Earned a subscribed from me. If all of your videos are this well researched and executed, I can’t believe the luck I have just had to stumble across your channel!

[@CyanBlackflower]

Good Channel & Videos. I like the insightful, thoughtful,and thorough coverage of relevant aspects of the topics covered. Good job.

[@kareningram6093]

Great video, as always. I think one of the reasons why zombies are so popular is because they are so versatile, so the zombies in each movie can have a completely different meaning. 28 Days Later is a great example of this. Rather than being mindless drones reflecting consumerism, the victims are infected by pure rage. One of the most powerful scenes for me is where Frank realizes he is infected and lashes out at his daughter to try to keep her away, then quickly escalates to the point that he is trying to kill the very person he wanted to protect. It was heartbreaking because Frank was a good man and not being himself, but it reminded me of how this happens so much in the world already. Like when you hear about somebody dying because of an instance of road rage, domestic violence, or rioting, and somebody tries to defend the perpetrator by saying, "I know him, he's a good person, this isn't like him at all. He just lost his temper."

[@Djaybird]

I would highly recommend the South Korean Netflix zombie drama, Kingdom! Much like most South Korean media, the show uses the threat of zombies to discuss society and class.

[@ThatKeyserSoze]

Junger's "Tribe" is also a must read for this analysis. People seek meaning, and the chaos of conflict crystalizes that meaning into clarity of thought. I think you addressed that well.

[@adebleswordfish]

I feel like a zombie movie respecting the dead that makes use of a human understanding of society and the dramatic, tragic, and comedic understanding. Using close combat weapons usually just a few at a time and very broken down or physically fit and robustly fast. A movie that seeks to deliver a deeper understanding and love among the living here and now to truly be alive!

[@kirani111]

A topic I'd love to explore!

[@efenty6235]

"the zombie apocalypse is ableist"

[@consoledself7785]

I highly recommend you do a video on Attack On Titan, it would be great to hear your thoughts on this show.

[@MrGreaves]

I think zombie stories can cater to most people’s love for film. There’s at least one zombie film, or show, or book, or game, that everyone likes it seems. There’s the optimism in stories like World War Z, both mediums. There’s redemption, like in Train to Busan. There’s comedy, Shaun of The Dead. Depression, The Last of Us 2. My favourite zombie story is probably The Last of Us. I prefer the sequel honestly as well. It’s overwhelming fact of hopelessness and heavy feelings of grief just strike me like not much else does. And sometimes I absolutely love a depressing story because it just gets me so invested. The zombies aren’t what’s so important here but rather what they’ve done to the world and what they’ve made the characters into. And these characters that have been made by this cruel world then go on to transform and change each other. It’s just beautiful.

[@connorgahan5197]

ZOMBIES ARE DEHUMANZING IF THE ZOMBIES ARE ALREADY NONHUMAN TO BEGAIN WITH IT IS EVEN MORE DEHUMAZING

[@pop000690]

Fairly good points. It's part of the reason why in terms of zombie media I prefer the Resident Evil games. The games (well the ones with zombies in them) are more isolated incidents rather than a full blown apocalypse, even with for example the Racoon City stuff in 2 and 3 and others, it's still one place that's affected by the zombies and other zombies while the rest of the world decide what to do. I find zombie stories with more isolated scenarios kinda brings back the fear of zombies of things getting worse while in the apocalyptic storeis, the worst is already happened and zombies are just an everyday thing.

[@visvivalaw]

Also, the best zombie movie ever made is the third in the Romero Trilogy, "Day of the Dead". The 1985 version, because a few more modern and truly awful movies have re-used that title.

[@Ammoniumbicarbonat]

Day of the Dead is the best of the three in my opinion

[@retroliz31gothictalesvinta14]

Maggie is my favorite zombie movie-great emotional story about grief.

[@julesjma]

I became a member of Curiosity Stream/Nebula specifically for your content. I wish you had the means to release your work daily!! (Or even weekly). Life changing writing. Thank you. 🙏

[@bighara]

Outstanding video essay.

[@Chukanu]

"to quote myself" made me kek, great video as always

[@therevenancy]

Fantastic video. Definitely going to start watching this channel on Nebula. Thank you for the thought-provoking piece.

[@stringtheory8090]

I’ve already declared my love for the zombie apocalypse years ago any zombie content I automatically support it no matter how crappy lol