Lime Crime: The Most Hated Beauty Brand on the Internet | Behind the Controversy

[@jenluv]

*NOTE* Y'all I'm so so sorry. I've gotten SO many comments about my butchering of the word qipao. I used Google Translate and two pronunciation videos and I was 100% sure I had it right. I re-listened to the Google Translate today and I feel like it's pulling a blue dress/gold dress on me because I hear it both wrong and right depending on how I train my ear. If I could go back and fix it I would, but I can't. It's pronounced “chee-pow”. I promise I will get it right from now on! Thank you for letting me know! I've got it now! (Side note, this is exactly what I was afraid of last week with pronouncing those 6 French named lipsticks and Awuoi Matiop's name. People were really upset that I didn't even try and I completely understood where they are coming from. So I tried this time. I googled, I watched videos, and I failed. I'm legit so sorry. I will keep trying!)

[@amypanddirtytoo1926]

Aww, don't be too hard on yourself Jen, as someone who speaks Chinese I can tell you that using Google translate just can't get the nuance of inflection that listening to a real person say it can. Especially with Chinese when there can be five different ways to pronounce a word depending on the accent over the vowel. Like Ta for male, female, and "it" (like animals), same word just the inflection is slightly different so the whole meaning changes. You can't be expected to be an expert Chinese speaker after two minutes. Edit: Oh, and I was one of the ones saying "did she mean "chee pow", oh, yeah, she's talking about the dress, definitely meant "chee pow"🤣🤣

[@msdouglas12100]

I think in Cantonese it's pronounced the way said it and in Mandarin it's pronounced che pow.

[@ObsidianNebula00]

You have to be really careful with pronunciation videos these days. A lot of them are machine-generated now. Don't rely on them unless you can verify that a real person who natively or at least fluently speaks the language is making them

[@oxyjenn8089]

I hope people aren't being nasty to you about this, Jen! You are an American who speaks primarily English so of course you aren't going to get every pronunciation of a foreign language correct! As long as you're trying and not being disrespectful, I don't see what the big deal is. I would never give someone a hard time for not pronouncing a word or name correctly if they weren't a native English speaker! People get mad over the craziest shit these days! 🤦🏼‍♀️😒

[@BarbaraT.]

@@ObsidianNebula00 One must always strive to give out correct information, and this goes for correct pronunciation too. That being said, in a time of misplaced hypersensitivity, I feel people need to chill a little. It's obvious that Jen always goes the extra mile to give us detailed and up-to-date info. In this specific case she probably didn't have access to Chinese-speaking people as a source and relied on the next best thing available. If only people showed the outrage when they every day butcher the cuisine from my country 😅.

[@briannajazmin7144]

I'll never forget how they named a lipstick color Scandal so it would be what popped up when people searched "lime crime scandal"

[@OpalLeigh]

Like- it’s terrible, but also surprisingly smart 😂 credit where it’s due.

[@abhimac27]

Evil genius stuff, honestly.

[@tubthungusbychumbungus]

I can't fault that, that's clever

[@FortheLoveofMonsters]

ok honestly… a serve 😏

[@hellaSwankkyToo]

that's genius actually.

[@rebeccabowler2892]

“Gray faked her death because she was being threatened by the online knitting community” WE’RE JUST GONNA MOVE PAST THAT??? HUH??

[@AdamantErinyes]

This has happened more than once. Emma in the moment has some great videos on hobby drama.

[@kaceycyp]

I’m going to look into that too. There is a YT channel called Emma in the Moment covering craft drama and it is absolutely wild.

[@ewinternetvideos]

Unfortunately we have no choice but to stan

[@WHouseofHair]

Pseudocide to escape a hit by the knitting mafia, don't defraud that community!

[@Joxxerfoxy]

Oh man Emma in the moment is amazing for crafting drama. I stop all that time doing to listen to their videos. My favorite is the one about the yarn dyer who faked her death 😂

[@ttheartsu]

You guys, I was a VICTIM of their privacy hack back in the day. About $200 was stolen from me and I NEVER got it back, I was a broke college student at the time. It FOREVER tainted Lime crime for me

[@heycanitellyousomething]

Oh my God I'm sorry you ended up going through that due to their idiocy

[@LevGreen-Wells]

That’s fucked. If you’re willing to I wonder if you can sue. I’m so sorry :(

[@ttheartsu]

@@LevGreen-Wells oh I would love that. Unfortunately it was about 12 years ago and I wouldn’t even know how to go about that

[@ttheartsu]

@@heycanitellyousomething thank you so much 😭 I remember talking to my bank at the time and then basically saying they couldn’t do anything about it

[@heycanitellyousomething]

@@ttheartsu gosh that's so shitty. We don't know how but my partner has a debit card from his work that his pay check goes into and somehow this person got his card info and was getting DoorDash, they spent in total probably a bit over $2,000 and he has never seen a cent from it back, I completely understand what you must have been feeling, or at least I understand the panic and anger that it can bring out. I hope that things are better and you're doing good for yourself and in a safe home ♥. Edit: what happened to my partner had spanned from March or April 2023 and he found out it was happening in August 2023, and he only found out cause the assholes fucked up and took out $200 at once for a single order, other fuck up was that my partner doesn't even use DoorDash 😂

[@moonshineaudios5740]

Lime **crime?** Founder: Yes. Multiple.

[@PaolaPonce-ec7tm]

oh!? At least shes honest??😭😭😭

[@shoko1328]

Do you remember Kim Kardashian originally tried to name and trademark her underwear brand(SKIMS) Kimono? I, as a Japanese, have no problem foreigners wearing Kimono(traditional Japanese clothes) as long as they wear them right way. I believe that is cultural appreciation. But that a person, especially foreigner(Kim), trying to own the word and over thousand years of history was true cultural appropriation.

[@autumnsprite]

Yeah that was so fucking wild

[@roshnipatel2000]

She was never going to call it Kimono. She only said that it would be called that for ragebait marketing. Her PR team knew it would be offensive and that people would talk about it. The Kardashians are the epitome of “All press is good press.”

[@shoko1328]

@@roshnipatel2000 They applied for trademarking "Kimono". Kim said that she respected Japanese culture and Kimono but she was not planning to change her brand name. However they got so many backlash and some Japanese associations made statements, including Mayor of Kyoto, they decided to change the name. Initial announcement for her brand "Kimono" was in end of June and they announced to change the name a few week later. Then they announced their new brand name in end of August. I understand that negativities could still promote some brands, but I don't believe that naming her underwear brand Kimono was a simple PR stant to promote her new brand.

[@Amazon_213]

More like Kim, oh no

[@shoko1328]

@@Amazon_213 That was great when people started saying that on twitter🤣🤣

[@liligirl96]

The amount of people in the knitting community who have faked their deaths is… disturbing.

[@brittney4u932]

That's why I crochet.

[@HelloThere-.-]

it's more than one???

[@lareinabrown]

Excuse me what???

[@arcade3198]

"many ppl in the knitting community fake their deaths" *doesn't elaborate*

[@antisocial.amanda]

Emma in the Moment has some great videos on the knitting community! There’s one video where they discuss a yarn dyeing company run by a woman who faked cancer, a completely different woman than the one mentioned quickly in this video :)

[@jennifermcdonald2237]

If "Gray" is who I think she is, she was "harassed" (term used VERY loosely here with several dozen air-quotes) by the knitting community for stealing peoples' money. She had a yarn dyeing business, became more popular than she could sustain as a one-woman business, kept taking orders despite no longer fulfilling any, and instead of providing refunds or dealing with (rightfully) angry customers she faked her own death with her husband's help. The reason why the reporter wouldn't be able to find her or contact her is because she did actually pass away of cancer for real a few years ago.

[@jenluv]

OMG! Thank you for the details!

[@ersheri]

Wow!

[@xwyssss]

That’s actually crazy…

[@persephoneparr6471]

When my two favorite worlds collide

[@CearoT]

Was this a story covered by Emma in the Moment? It sounds really familiar.

[@amberm8771]

I never realized my 2 very specific niches, makeup & yarn, would come together in a Lime Crime deep dive.

[@roshnipatel2000]

Haha 😂 I feel the same way

[@B-pn4ku]

“Very specific” and so unlike every other girl with the exact same trending interests

[@shirollylolly1594]

As a Chinese person, in my opinion, the main issue is just that the shoot was so poorly done. I think it'd be a really cool concept to have the model wear these vintage styles and have the updos and finger waves, slim-fit qipao, and vintage lettering along with the bright and eccentric makeup style. So many "cultural appropriation" controversies can be avoided with just the bare amount of research. People need to choose to be better.

[@espeon871]

Right, its so easy to be cultural appreciative esp when what makes appropriation and appreciation is literally the difference between racist caricature and just taking something and genuine care, and genuine care is so much more beautiful

[@sergpie]

Isn’t the modern Qipao an adaptation (appropriation) of western-style dresses and sewing techniques? As we know them, the Qipao goes back to the 1910s, at the earliest, and originated with exposure of China, during a socially and culturally transitional era, of western culture and fashion, resulting in shorter dresses, three-dimensional tailoring, and more feminine silhouettes. The only time I’ve seen a Manchurian Qipao, was in a museum, and it looks absolutely nothing like what the Qipao is understood as today.

[@shirollylolly1594]

​@@sergpie Kind of? The modern qipao is based on the qizhuang (what I assume you're referring to at the end there) and has Western influences. However, The modern qipao is still a very distinct and recognizable dress that most everyone would associate with China. You wouldn't argue that 1920s American dresses are the same as qipao, would you? Traditional qizhuang and modern qipao are not the same thing, just like how a 1920s qipao and 1920s Western dress styles aren't the same. The way cultural "appropriation" has been used today is less about adopting different aspects of other cultures and more about the erasure of minority communities in Western media. The term "cultural appreciation" has become popularized because of the negative connotations surrounding cultural appropriation. I think using sewing techniques and silhouettes from other cultures is a normal part of engaging in trade and sharing culture. There's also nothing wrong with non-Chinese people wearing or making these dresses, so I'm not sure the creation of the modern qipao would fall under the category of "appropriation" in today's social climate if that makes sense to you.

[@furbyacolyte5604]

@@sergpie the reason why you've never seen a "manchurian qipao" or its variants in daily wear is because you don't live among chinese people. not an accusation, just plain fact, and to point out that clothing is a living tradition, not a static item to be acted on. simple variants still exist, and are still worn as an everyday garment, though they are viewed as a little old fashioned. I'd also like to point out that there is no such thing as a "pure" culture, and people are not pushing back against appropriation to protect the purity of something or to prevent intercultural dialogue. we are merely asking that living traditions be treated with respect. it is possible to collaborate, borrow, or pay homage to in respectful ways, after all. the 1910s was over a hundred years ago--that is still several generations worth of innovation, creation, and lived experience. cultural appreciation is about making sure culture stays dynamic: by allowing fashion to develop in tandem with the original culture, it will keep responding to and growing from the changing circumstances and tastes of the people it came from. sometimes that includes intercultural influence, and that's a wonderful thing! appropriation on the other hand seeks to flash-freeze an image (usually a caricature) for a single night out or one photoshoot, and this disrespect and attitude of disposability is the problem.

[@EgoBrain1]

Silly things to be outraged about.

[@ciarahoran6830]

Am I crazy, or does anyone else remember hearing about Lime Crime selling glitters for your eyes, but it was found that they were not eye-safe glitters? I’m nearly positive that it was Like Crime!

[@biancasenisi3900]

yup i remember that!

[@AllezVous222]

Yes, it was craft glitter, lol!

[@ToryIsCooliest]

Yes I wanted them so bad at the time! (since they were marketed as safe for skin and eyes) and that's the biggest reason I even remember the name lime crime

[@yoursforest]

yes! i remember specifically back in the day seeing pictures of doe making the glitters at her kitchen table with like regular tools and no sterilization and that was a controversy too

[@Brassroses]

I recall multiple brands doing that

[@casperl2102]

When I heard china doll, I thought the palette would be about porcelain dolls overall then I saw the pick of the Asian cosplay and the little hope I had disappeared.

[@gracel2mart]

Exact same line of thought here 😭

[@strxwbxrry_420]

A make up palette called China Doll with traditional make-up colors (whites, red and yellows, etc if I missed any colors); that would be gorgeous

[@supme7558]

Rediculas

[@sarahrean7174]

Come on now China doll in slang you knew it was not that

[@v.pohjavuori7328]

@@casperl2102 Porcelain doll theme would've been so stunning 💔

[@andrea1347]

The first non-drugstore pallet I ever purchased was from LimeCrime in 2016, and I loved it. When I told my friend about it, she was like, "I don't buy from them, for, uh, reasons... you should probably just look them up" and I did look them up, thinking it was going to be, like, a recalled product or unsavory political donations or something and just being like, "oh. oh no." Edited to add: I couldn't return the pallet and ended up tossing it 6 months later because it constantly hit hard pan, and I ended up wasting a bunch of it trying to scrape down to useable product

[@Catsjamify]

Exactly the same situation when I bought a Jehooseywhatsit Starfish palette. Found out he's a garbage person after it arrived AND it's powdery garbage too. I do better research since then lol

[@andrea1347]

@@Catsjamify Same! New brands get at least a quick google now.

[@tammystiletto]

OMG I bought just one palette from ulta never knowing the drama and it went HARD pan a couple months later. I think I spent close to $50 on it and I felt bad for so long over that palette.

[@jynxkat1369]

me buying their hair colors recently because I had no clue and now I feel awful having them

[@monicaheartsgypsy7877]

@@jynxkat1369 I mean.. I’m pretty sure they’re pretty removed from the founder nowadays. Internet favorite palette is from them, but by the time I ordered from them DD was no longer affiliated with the brand and they were trying to turn the brand around.

[@BarbaraT.]

For the record, Urban Decay had a physical clothing store in trendy Kensington in London back in the 90's. And the clothes were edgy and wonderful... Then they got into make-up, which seemed weird at the time somehow. 😅

[@erinbarr7449]

I never knew that! That's actually kind of awesome 😂

[@abhimac27]

Whoa that thumbnail was intense! I've heard that the Limecrime OGs were awful, but didn't know specifics.

[@abhimac27]

Wowww that alleged reply, yikes!

[@abhimac27]

So I should watch the whole video, because now I'm just commenting in real time. 😂 I'm absolutely shocked by every single thing that keeps happening in this video. How did Limecrime keep their faithful customers for so long? I'm honestly shocked that they were able to stay afloat through all of this disgusting behavior.

[@denissecam1075]

​@@abhimac27 i honestly think some people liked Doo. some customers probably didn't know about it but most of them were probably aware and just didn't care. lime crime was an online only makeup so to know about it you neeed to be online, watching videos, seeing comments, following Doo on her social media. it isnt like you could walk into walmart and grab it without thinking much about it. Doo was like Jakelyn Hill some people hated her but clearly still had some support behind her because the brand sold a lot and had loyal customers

[@myreenn]

@@abhimac27 lime crime is sort of still trendy in south asia. most people here have no idea about all this controversy and i see online pages promoting them incessantly

[@thesolocreative3538]

@abhimac27 I was in Australia and somehow didn't see Doe's abuse of others at all. And I did follow Doe through her fashion brand (even earlier when it was tshirt revamps etc) and when she was in a band. I guess just did not follow closely enough to see all her stuff. I refused to buy from her /lime crime after the data breach because I finally found out about them being arseholes through that and how they acted.

[@quin_e]

omg! i bought the venus palette on depop in high school bc it was the ONLY red eyeshadow palette i could find but didn’t want to directly support the company. now i can get neon yellow eyeliner at target!

[@courtneyb7205]

Yes I remember when limecrime was hot for all the colors they offered and I loved the Venus pallets when they first came out.. but my god did she ruin a great thing

[@violakarl6900]

those palletes were iconic, i wanted to have one so badly

[@emilyclaire319]

Looking at all this now, the downfall of Lime Crime feels so similar to KVD. KVD even did the rename/rebrand but are still struggling (IMO). I’d be interested to see you cover that at some point in this series 😊

[@kim_2918_]

I agree! Would love to see a KVD video

[@mrselfdestruct7605]

Thats whats happening with Lime Crime 100%. Doe hasnt worked for them in a few years now, but the decisions she made and her controversies. Since shes left ive been buying their products now, and when I tell you its been a solid 2 year since I actually saw anything new on their site. I think all ive seen in the last 4 years thats actually new is the eyebrow pomade sticks to match their hair dye, and their colored mascara, the teddy bear regular lipsticks, and some liquid lipstick shades, and that one venus palette thats just the most loved colors from each single palette. Theyre going slow as fuck with their rebranding, and even Ultas stores have stopped selling them as a shelved item and just sell stuff online

[@veiruperto]

It is very similar for sure, the reason I think they’re failing is because it wasn’t a true rebrand…the just removed the face and changed the meaning of the initials so a lot of people still associate it with Kat, now I don’t think they need to redesign a whole lot but just change the name completely and some visuals

[@morbidhime]

They have had similar controversies too, with KVD's yahtzee dogwhistle stuff and Doe's... costume.

[@seroquelz]

Exactly! I'm surprised there aren't more comparisons in the comments. Like you said, KVD is still trying to win back their place in the market. Instead of changing to KVD they would probably have done better scrapping any and all callbacks to Kat and renaming it something else that's on brand (goth, horror, etc.) People still call it Kat Von D makeup and then go, "I mean KVD..." because the association is still there with that woman and all her past and current crazy antics. I think Limecrime could use a total rebrand as well because right now they aren't really offering anything that customers can't get from Juvia's Place or a smaller indie brand that don't have as many or any controversies.

[@2nicnag2]

I appreciate you addressing the fact that gaslighting is incorrectly used and over used far more than not.

[@androxxxin]

her name is xenia vorotova, I doubt she ever had her name legally changed to doe deere

[@puppperoni]

I was looking for this comment! Thank you

[@cynthiafisher3392]

I was blissfully unaware of any of Lime Crime’s transgressions, but now that I am… There isn’t ANYTHING that they could do to make me buy from them. Too many other really good brands with no Hitler costumes!

[@mrselfdestruct7605]

If it helps, Doe Deer hasnt actually been a part of Lime Crime anymore for the past 3 years. Thats why their brand has been actually good and quiet in terms of controversy in the last few years, as well as why they havent really been releasing new items as much as theyve been reworking a lot of their products

[@heavymetalmomma30]

We’re gonna need an update on the student who couldn’t go to grad school. 😢 That one really hurt 💔

[@veiruperto]

I know! I hope she’s doing well, that loss could’ve ended someone’s life

[@Ashley-vs8nu]

The fact that it was over a lipstick must have had her mind blown

[@majorgeneralmalaise]

That should be covered by fraud protection, so I hope they got it resolved through the credit card company.

[@hahaveggie]

From what I remember, it wasn’t real. Stephanie Nicole (big KZbinr at the time) reached out to her to help her legally but got ghosted

[@hahaveggie]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHTVlXltpNSenrcsi=puX0QKg957UtmAFq 23:50 Stephanie sent her info on how to clear her credit, but when she started to ask questions she got blocked

[@WHouseofHair]

Thanks for such an informative video. Doe Deere has a voluminous history of being extremely shady. When she was "designing" clothes, she was busted for using duct tape for hemming purposes. Also, it's interesting to note that some YT influencers who gave rave reviews of products made by Lime Crime have removed those reviews due to all of the controversies (e.g. grav3yard girl).

[@ariannasv22]

I'm sorry, duct tape? Literally trashy

[@Naynaylovesmakeupxoxo]

I remember the hacking of the site cause my sister bought me a lipstick for a gift and she had over $200 taken from her bank. It was eventually fixed but still was a hassle to have happen. And no remorse at all. Also remember when they named a lipstick ‘Scandal’? They did that so when u searched the brand u would see the lipstick instead of the drama. How sad.

[@Phant0mGirl]

NO WAY I just came across this video! I remember when I worked at Sally’s back in the day I had a coworker who was obsessed with Lime Crime lipsticks and ultimately got me obsessed. One day she came in with all the tea, pulled up the “oh dear doe dere” blog and we followed the drama until it subsided. It was such a journey

[@meghangerhart643]

I remember that Tumblr page! I became morbidly fascinated with Doe Deere early on. She’s so beautiful and fun to look at, in terms of her makeup/fashion etc but she’s always been such an icky person. I haven’t looked her up in a long time but I remember, for a while there, I was following all of the scandals. What a time.

[@beepboop97]

Sallys sells lime crime now lol

[@Phant0mGirl]

@@beepboop97 full circle moment 😭

[@CearoT]

I love your opening because the lack of alt makeup colors was real. Lime crime seemed like such a home for goths and punks, and omg when everything hit the fan it was so upsetting. I still have a couple of the loose powders from 2010/2011 before it all came out. I am so happy we have so many options now.

[@nicoleck9288]

I’ve been around KZbin since those Unicorn Lipsticks were first launched. They were revolutionary, as were the Velveteens. LC is really a beautiful line, but Doe’s behavior has tarnished it from the beginning. I remember watching the interview Jkissa did and thinking how skeptical and uncomfortable she looked. I think she did the best she could with what she had. I really miss her content as a whole.

[@mrselfdestruct7605]

Im just so glad she left the brand and they did a KVD, she has nothing to do with it anymore

[@thisismyaltaccount85]

She’s Russian, what do you expect

[@SuileanAirgid]

Every time I think the whole drama has disappeared into the ether, something pulls me back in :) I'm only 22 mins in, so I don't know if this is discussed, but the Oh Dear Doe Deere tumblr blog is still around although I deleted most of the posts and transferred over to wordpress (incase tumblr went bye bye) and I did intend to update and finish off the Sordid History (originally started by Doe Deere Lies) but life, health and other craziness happened, and I didn't see any real desire for it online, so I just sauntered off into the sunset. In any case, I feel almost nostalgic for that time, I made a lot of lovely friends and I do miss the little community surrounding ODDD. If you were a former reader, thank you so much for your support. It wouldn't have been what it was without the readers, contributors and occasional hater in my inbox :P

[@meghangerhart643]

I used to follow ODDD! It was nice having someone concisely pointing out all of Doe’s bullsh*t in real time. She’s truly the definition of “looks can be deceiving”. Thanks for all your hard work! ❤❤❤

[@SuileanAirgid]

@@meghangerhart643 thank you for reading!

[@crinklescat1871]

Omg I loved reading your blog!!! Thank you for all your hard work!!! I was obsessed with how just tone deaf, problematic, and horrible doe is.

[@smokedsalt]

Might be aging me, but I still remember the early LiveJournal days of when Doe Deere was launching Lime Crime. I'm pretty sure I had one of the earliest eyeshadows too. Thank you for this deep dive, I'd only heard it in passing before.

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

Live journal is where I learned about tempalia. Everyone loved her through work on finding all the dupes.

[@user-wi3wy1pz1e]

Was it eyeshadowsl*ts community? That's where I learned all about makeup 😂 I remember Sugarpill being launched

[@jessbryan1361]

She was just way to money hungry in my opinion. She failed to produce a quality product and she failed to protect her customers when the major hack happened and to add insult to injury she is handing out discounts to her store. She is so oblivious to the reality that the rest of us live it is ridiculous.

[@DawnPhenomenon]

I remember when a blog called lipsticks and lightsabers made a whole exposé about limecrime. Very interested to hear what you have to say!

[@amyr6544]

I remember that! Lipsticks and Lightsabers was so cool! Ana did a great job on that post.

[@asmileisspecial]

Omg you just brought back memories.

[@crinklescat1871]

Yess!!!! That was a wonderful exposé!!! I remember reading that so much because I mean that blog had receipts for every single thing. Every. Single. Damn. Thing. Like doe couldn’t do anything about it because it was so well researched.

[@UnfilteredMakeup]

I bet a lot of people who are purchasing the hair dye at Walmart have never heard of the brand outside of the hair dye. It will be interesting to see if the sales of that end up being able to sustain the brand.

[@HighsideOfJupiter]

I bought some on clearance and it was just meh. It didn’t stick in my hair for very long, and my hair was virgin at the time. I did red and pink. The pink looked amazing for a week or two, the red barely stuck.

[@1sweetpeach]

I use the hair dye that Lime Crime sells at Sally's and really like it. It's not as good as Iro Iro but definitely better than arctic fox 🥴😵😵‍💫 I also quite like the cherry 🍒 lip gloss but it's super overpriced.

[@roadman373]

i love their hair dyes and i bought it after doe left but still not knowing anything about tyne company, my hair is now back to my natural hair color so i’m not dyeing my hair anymore. i liked it a lot more than arctic fox and iroiro

[@trashcant69]

@@HighsideOfJupiter red dye usually has the problem of fading quicker than any other colour, because the pigments are so big

[@jacquelynlemieux]

i used the green one for a while before i was aware of everything and had a really good experience with it! lasted a good amount of time and seemed to do its job. 😊

[@traci222]

Why am I singing in my head, "Doe a deer, a female deer"🦌🎼 through this entire video? I'm so lame😂

[@irid3scent_]

that's exactly what i was singing right when i heard her name

[@MaddyCoppolo]

lol that’s not lame at all The Sound of Music is amazing!!!

[@traci222]

​@@MaddyCoppoloaww thank you 😊 music is everything ❤️

[@milkhoney6618]

Back in the 2000s I adored Doe who was Xenia Vorotova back then. I followed her blog full of makeup tutorials, bought her repacked glitters and badly sewn DIY upcycles, followed her Myspace band Skysalt religiously. I was so excited for Lime Crime to grow, supported every launch and I was devastated by learning she wasn't a good person.

[@igitha..._]

Agreed, ...I too had spoken with her between approx 2000-2004, she seemed lovely then, and there was definitely excitement about her products & approach.... I'm in shock to find out that her business ventures went so pear-shaped! I wonder what was going on behind the scenes to motivate her in the direction she went?

[@chunkysocks8121]

I was a college student when Doe Deere still went by her legal name, and sold handmade clothes on eBay. i actually bought a pair of arm warmers and still have them lol. I was into sewing at the time and saw her as a huge inspiration for her bright colors. I never got into makeup, so I didn’t follow her down that path, but I definitely saw the drama and remember being surprised that the funky ebay clothes lady was such a mess.

[@daintycaked]

I am crazy familiar with Doe Deere (btw I feel like you should have used her real name). BEFORE Lime Crime she was part of the Lol!+a fashion style community. While I never interacted with her, she was the creator of the livejournal group "little big girls." She invented this group name for use on social platforms because the term Lol!+a was, and still is, banned by many social platforms for obvious reasons. So we used the abbreviation of LBG on sales for ebay to get around the ban in order to buy/sell clothes. She would sell items she sewed herself--but she also did a really bad job sewing them. One person I remember reviewed a skirt on livejournal egl group I believe (elegant gothic lol!+as) and said that the hem had been just folded over and duct-taped. While she had lots of great ideas and she is a very creative person, she is also a horrible person with vile ethics. She is def one of the people who helped to build up the Lol!+a fashion community online in the early 2000s, but, again, she's awful. Lime Crime just introduced her to a bigger part of the online community to gain more haters.

[@foxwaffles]

Omg, that's just wild WTF. I'm pretty active in my local EGL comms and WTF even is this lady it seems like there isn't a community she hasn't affected somehow 🥴

[@charlottewinchester4461]

I’m pretty sure a friend of a friend is the person who posted about the duct-taped dress and Xenia went absolutely batshit on her.

[@Arikel]

I remember that! I was in egl and in the drama lj comms and I still remember how she had to leave the community because of her scams, to then do the same in the makeup comms.

[@xobunnyfangsxo]

Why are you censoring lolita? You know that's not the same as loli, right? There is no reason for the word lolita to be banned since it's a fashion culture.

[@ToryIsCooliest]

​@@xobunnyfangsxowhat do you think loli is short for?

[@jkopf927]

I remember wanting limecrime makeup in 2016 but my roommate told me to google them and I was like, nope. I agree that the market is so saturated that they’ll have to rebrand and introduce something to set them apart to be successful.

[@32Koifish]

i dont watch all your videos, but they are always so refreshing with how professionally you speak on topics that others may sensationalize

[@frankiemillcarek6976]

This! I appreciate that she speaks like a professional adult. And that she asks and expects us to act the same in the comments.

[@jackieison4793]

This rang a bell for me because I was a freelance content writer and I started writing for content mills as a side hustle. In August of 2016, I wrote an article for a content mill. The assignment was about Doe Deere and how she was a top inspiring female entrepreneur. It paid $4. I vaguely remember that it had to be a positive article about Doe Deere and Lime Crime, but I can't access the details now. It seems at that time, they were paying extremely low prices for content they could post across the internet to increase her presence and reputation. It isn't important now, but I thought you'd like this minute detail about them.

[@chongus927]

That is hilarious 🙃

[@Eiowen0]

Hello! BTW how does it work to be a freelance content writer? I love to learn and write, it sounds like a dream to me

[@ToryIsCooliest]

I remember when Lime Crime first came on the scene, I wanted their eyeshadow palettes sooo bad, but I'm allergic to a lot of makeup ingredients. It's times like these that I'm grateful for allergies because I've avoided supported nasty people and companies.

[@crazyyura]

4 months without a SSL certificate is crazy 😭 Im studying for my cybersecurity exam anyway so here are more explanation on what it is Basically the certificate is what gives the S (Secure) in HTTPS but also in other protocols, that certificate encrypts data so if a hacker gets the website datas they can't read it (confidentiality) since it has to be signed by a certificate authority (if its not a well known one your computer gonna say NO DONT GO HERE) it also guarantee the authenticity of the site, but since the certificate was outdated non of that was guaranteed and it was basically super easy for hackers to get infos or make fake websites For 4 months

[@delusion5867]

how can they be that stupid? 🤦

[@mktruett]

Would love a collab between this series and James Welsh’s When Beauty Turns Ugly series ❤

[@btwidk5945]

For some reason, I don't like collaborations. Love James though.

[@teri2466]

​@@btwidk5945 I'm the same way and I have no Idea why.

[@audreynelson3997]

James has already made a video covering this

[@teri2466]

​@@audreynelson3997That was Robert.

[@uchiki_bunny1248]

What I think the difference between cultural appropriation versus appreciation is that appropriation is a person taking something at face value and monetizing it, while appreciation is knowing and respecting where something came from and using it in its intended way, or wearing it in the correct way :) Correct me if I’m wrong in any way!!❤

[@OOhlUkaTmEImGanSTa]

I remember when Lime Crime was in their prime. When it turned out Doe nasty mess (figuratively and literally) making cosmetics in some DIY home lab with poor quality ingedients the outrage was minimized because she was one of the few could make vibrant, smooth, blendable shadows. Even when shown proof that her "imaginative" colours were actually just pressed pigments imported from China the brand was still in demand. I think the final nail in her coffin was Jeffrey Star's products, she could no longer compete, he used the same playbook, but did it a million times better. I think in was in 2013/2014 (?) The makeup girlies in NZ were rushing to buy up product because we weren't going to be able to puchase from the site anymore.

[@potat19]

And to think that both of them were cancelled due to their involvement with n*zi themes. I do remember wanting to buy LC’s eyeshadows and liquid eyeliners so bad but they were out of my budget. It’s a shame that Deere chose to be a horrible person because products such as the Venus palettes aren’t half bad. Maybe in the near future, the brand will discard their makeup lines and just focus of hair dyes.

[@TJ-bu9zk]

@@potat19 Makes perfect sense for me. Their brand is edgy, in your face, controversial... Na zi ticks all that for an attention seeker.

[@jo4vt]

My 17 year old daughter is a new subscriber. She was supposed to be doing schoolwork and I saw she was watching this video on her iPad-I couldn’t be mad at that, haha.

[@K119_]

What lol 😂 like no do your homework kid.

[@abigaileldritch]

At least it’s a pretty easy to “podcast” while working 😅

[@igitha..._]

You should be proud, she sounds like an intelligent young lady! Researching which beauty products to approach and why to avoid other ones is very wise!

[@EgoBrain1]

Um....ok..

[@lindamcgowan9020]

I know the lady who ran Oh Dear Doe Deere so this is a subject I love diving into. 👀

[@vortexofself]

Oh Dear Doe Deere is what introduced me to the hell surrounding this brand many many moons ago :’) seeing that name brought back so many memories hahaha

[@neeskeskneesk4004]

My mate ran the 'Oh Doe Deere' Tumblr/Wordpress documenting all this back in the day, so I'm pretty well versed in it all, it's really interesting to see this covered by you.

[@sama5867]

the naked palettes had staying power like no other and thats kind of what urban decay became known for in the end. i am still loyal to the primer potion and all nighter setting spray, although i loved their sparkles and colors back in the day

[@crinklescat1871]

I’ve still got my first palette by them. Like I consider it a museum piece 😂. I have a separate drawer for make up that I kept to keep. And allllll these years later the colors are actually still usable! Like the pallet itself looks nothing at all like the Naked palette, but it’s just so cool. And yes I don’t use any other setting spray but theirs! I’m 34 and have found most of my HG’s. I try new skin care all the time. But on make up I only use primer and a tinted powder, sometimes blush/bronzer. But mostly I just haven’t found the perfect liquid eyeliner. Lancôme is most likely my ultimate go to. But then i discovered Japanese and k beauty. So that changed the game. And yes to primer potion. I used hourglass and it was bunk but too late for a return so I think back to basics is best. Urban eye primer never failed me.

[@tdsollog]

I hope you keep this series going! People tend to forget controversies.

[@koinijikoimizu]

I would love a deep dive on Fyrinnae Cosmetics. They were among the OGs for nuanced Multichromes and Duochromes but they've..sorta fallen off the radar even though their formulas are still incredible. Also since Doe left, the Lime Crime got kinda boring color wise. Not saying she was needed, just that whoever took over the creative side of development axed loads and loads of their most fun colors not to mention changing the formula. The loss of Diamond Crushers hurt, their Venus palettes have gone the way of UD's Naked palettes. and their liquid lipsticks are now victims of the Nude-pocalypse like ColourPop.

[@meghangerhart643]

I STILL have 20-25 of the $3 sample pigments from Fyrinnae Cosmetics that I bought 10+ years ago! 😳 I’ve barely used them but they are still so beautiful and they were basically the first true indie brand I bought any “special” eyeshadows from. I want to try to press the pigments. Even though they’re SUPER old, they’re just loose powder pigments so they haven’t gone off or bad. I’ll look it up to see if there are any real safety issues but I bought everything I needed to press them a couple of years ago (man, I REALLY need to stop procrastinating 😅). I’d love to add them to my Clionadh, ColourPop, and Lethal Cosmetics singles.

[@RedRightHandInk]

I'm literally wearing Fyrinnae right now and preach them to all my makeup friends. I've loved them for probably 20 years and have never been disappointed with a product.

[@koinijikoimizu]

@@RedRightHandInk If their Pixie Epoxy is ever DCed, I might legit riot. That stuff is creamy gold in a tube! And yes. Princess for a Day is the shade I fell in love with from Fyrinnae and I just keep going back to buy 'one more pan/pot'.

[@koinijikoimizu]

@@meghangerhart643 I found out about them through a friend who used to review indie brands and was destashing her stuff. She gave me her load of Fyrinnae minis, I swatched them and was like Oliver Twist asking for more info about the brand. Those original 8 pots turned into an order of Poxy and 12 more pots....then 5 lipsticks...then more periodic pots/pressed pans. ..that brand is so GOOD!

[@ariaelkis7958]

@@koinijikoimizu i freaking love Pixie Epoxy

[@archanegene]

Great coverage, glad someone is using their platform to cover this appropriately! ✊✊✊ FYI qipao is pronounce as like chi-pow in Mandarin, Chinese

[@GayMarcoting]

Wow this is such a throwback to my early days of makeup! It’s so sad how their creator ruined their name; They were the TRUE FIRSTS to make matte liquid lipsticks even BEFORE Jeffree Star! I miss the velvetines! I always wondered why LimeCrime just disappeared almost overnight but never enough to look deep into it! Thanks for doing all the research for us babe ❤❤❤

[@enerioffutt1881]

When it comes to culteral appreciation, I really like Safia Nygard. When she does makeovers, she goes to the place, she talks to the people, she does a history of it and she's respectful.

[@keirraholley4248]

Never heard of half the brands covered on this channel but I'm loving the deepdives on all of them. Things like this never pop into my head but learning all this info is so fun. Love it so much, great work xx

[@shironerisilk]

I didn't watch the video yet as I'm writing this but just seeing the thumbnail brought back memories of my teenage years obsessed with aesthetics before this word was used as it is now. I remember clearly how basically no brands had liquid lipsticks (or even matte ones) and how people LUSTED after the Velvetines, not only because of the formula but also the crazy colors. People in Brazil would give their firstborn to get one brought from abroad.

[@debedout34]

Absolutely loving “behind the controversy“! Keep them coming

[@jennypettersson]

Making a cup of tea prepping to hear all about the tea 😂. Congratulations to the channel growth!

[@mai-linhmainor5965]

Friend.....The tea is hot and I've got cookies!

[@sydeezy17]

I remember you getting ready for this interview Jen!! I’ll never forget it. You have always hunted and shared truth and that is what makes you my favorite youtuber of all time. you are underrated. i appreciate you Jen! 💕💯

[@VaniBunnii]

Ur my makeup mom now ❤ “the ppl wearing flower crowns at coachella” statement made me check when this was posted 🤣 i thought i was watching a 5 year old vid for a second

[@jenluv]

Oh! Do they not do that anymore? #MomFail

[@nozucchini4624]

when you popped that picture on the screen of the eyeshadow dupes i was sent back in time to being a preteen looking at blogs about this late at night lol. I honestly didnt know lime crime still existed today. great video!

[@SritaCaramelo]

Omg Temptalia was the best! I love your videos and your reviews and take on things remind me a lot of Christine ❤

[@_Kuma_]

I remember seeing a lot of this go down live… Yikes! I wanted to try LC so badly when I first heard of it because, like you said, it was so hard to find colourful makeup. But I looked into it beforehand and I’m so glad that I did. What a mess that I’d never want to support!

[@szt1031]

loved this video jen! would love if you could make a video about the storybook cosmetics brand, there hasn’t been an official closure announced as far as I know but the website is down and I’ve heard apparently the owners were scamming customers? keep up the amazing content and happy mother’s day!! 💖💖

[@kaceycyp]

So excited about this video. Jen does an amazing job at communicating facts in an interesting and understandable way.

[@spacepigeon659]

had to comment because genuinely one of the best laid out and explained videos on a controversy i've watched, really really clear and learnt a bunch i'd not known! please keep up the great work with your channel.

[@Micalahannray]

i still reference temptalia at times for dupes of older eyeshadow singles! there’s no better resource for those of us who learn best via reading 😊

[@natz3284]

As someone who never wears makeup due to sensory issues making it feel like hell to me (and thus I'm not really into makeup or the community at all), this video is one of the most investing things I've watched in recent memory. So well researched and such an insane topic, you gripped me right away!!!

[@bolladragon]

Hair dye alternatives to Lime Crime I can personally vouch for; Overtone, Good Dye Young, Arctic Fox, Lunar Tides. Lunar Tides was my favorite for color saturation, Overtone’s was the better conditioner, but Luna’s probably my fav if you want super vibrant colors over bleached/light hair that won’t damage. I used Overtone on my natural brown with the really dark shades they have and it does tint nicely. I’ve also tried Punky Color and Manic Panic but neither were great. Punky didn’t actually dye much and Manic fades very fast. I have naturally very thick and coarse hair and bleach never plays too nice on my scalp so I mostly use a richer, darker colors now that I’ve spent years experimenting. I used to keep a tight pixie cut so I would change it up often and could deal with cutting away damage frequently. There was never a point I had to go for the Lime Crime for an exclusive color for the past decade of me experimenting on my hair.

[@ttheartsu]

Idk what Punky colors you used but I used the pink Shampoo.Conditioner and that stuff would NOT come out lol

[@bolladragon]

@@ttheartsu I used the blue!

[@jeanams07]

I'd highly recommend you look into the controversy with the owner of Artic Fox, because she is not the greatest person either and I quit using the brand brcause of it. Another great brand that I would highly recommend is iroiro.

[@swampratguttergoblin]

Arctic fox also isn't the most, drama free, there's some stuff with them too

[@tinleygraceee]

Brad Mondo's hair dye/haircare lines are really good alternatives too!

[@powersquirrel8156]

Wow I haven't thought about Doe Deere since high school! I followed her blog because ✨ aesthetic ✨ but was fortunately too broke to buy anything. I did buy early elf loose eyeshadows because I couldn't afford Lime Crime.

[@captainhuggypants9366]

Doe Deer was on LiveJournal posting in OFTD groups in the very early 2000s and began soft launching her bathroom Cosmetics. She had small pots of loose eyeshadow she was trying to sell and ripped off the unicorn logo from another member.

[@fionaseager3940]

Jen I was RIVETED to this Vbog! Fascinating and so well presented! It must have been hours of work thanks. Mad luv.

[@kotslegoats]

i would love a lime crime rebrand! as an earlier gen-zer, their products would go great with my collection!! i believe they just need to find their new footing on a rebrand. great video! :3

[@peachllet]

in 2014/2015 i scored a ticket to the Australian IMATS (as a 14 year old just getting into makeup). I remember coming across the lime crime booth and thinking it was suppeerrr cool and glittery. I bought a bunch of products because I was so excited and i ran home to try them out. low and behold i ended up hating every single one. i kept the products for years and only recently threw them out still not knowing any of the controversy around the brand. i remember thinking that maybe it was just me not knowing how to use makeup but no they were just bad products

[@aliceatrocious]

I'm so happy to see people still talking about this. I can't say I have any desire to support them even now, they have a lot of trust to re-earn as a brand.

[@mixchixbeauty2492]

Brands like this, ie also KVD who have divorced from their owners don't make sense to me. The whole point of the brand was the association of the owner. When they are gone I really don't understand who would be motivated to buy from the brand anymore especially with such a terrible past reputation. It's like if Jeffree Star left Jeffree Star cosmetics. I wouldn't all of a sudden start buying it because of everything it once represented.

[@SanktaLo]

I was one of the people who got my credit card info stolen and it was all over a liquid lipstick I couldn’t even use. The three or so times I tried wearing the blue-red velveteen, I got massive cold sores within hours. Idk what was actually in those but they did severely affect me in a way no other lipstick has.

[@SelfcareKaren]

"This is a piss on my leg and tell me its raining situation" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣that is just TOO funny!

[@officialthehandsbigadventures]

I love these deep dives. I know they are a lot of work but i feel like they are so worth it.

[@ntashatheomnipresent4969]

Doe has gotten off scot free because she posts regularly on Instagram and still dares to speak fondly about her time at Lime Crime. Disgusting, the internet was not as harsh enough in my opinion.

[@marlbboro8091]

Going to say this on behalf of GenX Indian women - we absolutely love and appreciate when our non Indian friends wear Indian clothes to our weddings, and cultural celebrations. In fact I buy the Saree bangles and bindis so we can all dress up. Cultural appreciation ❤️❤️ Cultural appropriation or should I say ABOMINATION is Hare Rama Hare Krishna. The terms are used inappropriately on the internet today. PS I hate photographic portfolios of a lot of European photographers on Pinterest who have pictures of Indian village and rural folk and families and make money of it and I know for a fact that those villagers are not getting a cut of that! That is Cultural Dehumnization If you see them please report or comment in support of these un-named people who don’t get a cut are being used as props. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

[@jenluv]

I was just talking to someone about that a week or two ago. How their spouse's white family all wore Indian clothes at the wedding and how everyone loved it. The white mother-in-law was in tears because she felt so beautiful. Definite appreciation!

[@marlbboro8091]

@@jenluv same at my wedding. My mom bought Sarees and accessories for my in-laws side as gifts with the caveat - only if you feel comfortable. My aunts were there as helpers to dress up up. And they all wore it for our Hindu ceremony and even danced and drank in them at the reception. I felt honored that they appreciated my culture.

[@utoobr10]

I'm so glad you're doing this! This is like Behind the Music but for Beauty. And it's history and needs to be told!

[@jurassicjaws]

"tea sets... with dogs and cats on them... so, that's a thing" I have a vintage tea set with bunnies on the cups. Is that really an odd thing, or is it just odd to Americans? It's crazy to see so many people talk about Doe even to this day, but fail to mention the "little big girls" group of Livejournal as well as the jealousy she had towards Amy Doan, whose clothing brand was called Shrinkle. I bought 3 dresses from Amy back in the day, and the quality was always fantastic.

[@mlemon9279]

My credit card was compromised and I was lucky enough to get the charges canceled. But what I really hated about the company was that they didn’t notify the customers right away. I had to find out through a random instagram account that they were hacked. It was like weeks later too

[@lynfiggins7780]

This is the first one of your videos that’s popped up on my feed, but some of my other favorites mention you and your videos on their channels extremely often. Super excited to check out your channel!!!

[@MariaAD-h2s]

I mean this in the nicest way possible, this very video i listen to every night to fall asleep to… it’s been really helpful 😭

[@alyssak5847]

Lime Crime was the reason my grandmothers credit card information was stolen… and that was in their “good reputation” era. After that I knew they were sketchy & it only got worse as time when on. So I love that people are actually talking about it as a whole.

[@alyssak5847]

And the fact that they came out with hair products afterwards…. I had to inform pretty much all my friends that company is a giant red flag I don’t understand how they’re in operation.

[@nope19568]

​@@alyssak5847does been unassociated with the brand for years now, theyre in a kvd scenario where theyre trying to distance and rebrand

[@kimc555]

I’ve used Temptalia’s foundation matrix to find my shade for over a decade.

[@mangokilla127]

Ah yes, I remember this being the first brand cancelling I witnessed on the Internet. I thought their makeup/aesthetic was so cute (i believe they made a cameo on Melanie Martinez's Dollhouse mv??) But after the hacking thing they were basically done

[@mangokilla127]

Another thing, Doe's ego seems to be the cause of her undoing. I think she needed a PR team quicker than she realized. She should've done a co-CEO thing where someone led the business side, and she was the creative lead.

[@murisah]

just to note, i use to play the online game “IMVU” in 2010. when shopping for new clothes or skins, i always chose the creators who would make LIME CRIME inspired looks. these would be my favorite because obviously, the lipstick colors and how diverse the branding was. it was peak lime crime time. crazy!!

[@vadisrad]

I remember meeting Jeffree Star at the Lime Crime booth at IMATS NYC 2014 hahah

[@moustik31]

Birds of a feather ...

[@probablyapigeon]

You want a makeup controversy that's going on now with a small business? I have receipts and proof of wage theft if anyone is interested in picking up the story.

[@xzelta]

Omg I used to watch your makeup reviews and videos when I was a kid years ago, and just found this video and your channel again 🙏🏼

[@lunakat__]

this is so funny because last week i came across Doe Deere's fashion Instagram page and didn't realize it was her at first. i was like "why does she look familiar 🤔". i quickly backed out of the profile when i realized who it was.

[@AmeerahMuhammad]

This was such a great video Jen! I remember so much of this.

[@jenluv]

Thank you, Ameerah!

[@badtothebrow]

I think they will be going out of business in the next year. They send emails about 70% off on their website every day almost. They dmed me asking if I would create content in exchange for product. All the signs are pointing toward closing

[@lovelyafternoon]

You have a very news broadcast esque voice in the best way possible

[@Mooseinclusivity]

Hey Jen! It’s been awhile since I’ve seen you on my main page but I’m so glad to see you!! Rewatching older videos rn!!

[@kimberlywelch4198]

what they need to do is release a super unique and fabulous eyeshadow palette. Let's be honest, a good palette will draw anyone in, we all say we want new products, but the palettes still reign as number one cosmetic product. I don't even remember the last time they put a palette out.

[@alyh3]

Love this series, thank you for putting so much effort into it this!

[@scana-chan6794]

I absolutely LOVE your videos! I came across them randomly and I'm so glad the algorithm gods blessed with your content! I love listening to you while I'm working and I'm learning a lot. I appreciate the work you put in your research and explanations in your essays, it's amazing ✨

[@XverreauX]

I'm so glad you talked about about the Jkissa interview. I remember the interview really clearly, you could tell that Jkissa was heartbroken when the interviewee said that Doe was still very involved...

[@erinbailey4631]

As a knitter I can confirm that we are viscous and will cause you to fake your own death 😂 I knew Lime Crime was a problem but I didn’t know all the details! I’m a new viewer and I love your approach to all of this

[@tifKh]

Viscous, huh? Idk, this doesn’t seem something to be proud of, chief. Especially confusing viscous and vicious?