9.2 DPS Tier List

[@RalphEvangelista]

"ill get it nerfed i dont care" i think that the most warrior statement ive ever heard

[@Tristana.Keauna]

That was probably the most I've ever learned about DK - so awesome when someone is passionate about what they're talking about and Know what they're talking about, and is just straight forward about it, without being boring.

[@Pokechamp653]

the DK discord is bonkers, you feel like a genius if you read in there

[@visionsofentertainment]

During Wrath I started raiding as BDK and I started getting interested in theory crafting. I found the DK theorycrafting forum and I swear 90% of it was in Matlab. DK has always had a fantastic theorycrafting community

[@MrBarbeler]

@@Pokechamp653 Got a link?

[@Tae_94]

@@MrBarbeler its called Acherus..search it on discord

[@MrBarbeler]

@@Tae_94 thanks!

[@Cube1990]

Hey Max, thank u ! It's great that you involve the community and approach players who have "represented" the classes for years. This gives a very good overview

[@blackllistd5752]

The thing about the hunter theorycrafters is that they’re super realistic. They always keep in mind all players and not just the above average players. They’re also super informative in terms of why something is good or bad when you talk to them. The hunter theorycrafters are just really awesome at what they do.

[@dawidmutwicki944]

Cause there are no above average huntards

[@Luntrus100]

@@dawidmutwicki944 wow has no hard classes to begin with

[@Dontaethefist]

@@Luntrus100 some take more brain than others tbf

[@yankokassinof6710]

@@Dontaethefist agreed

[@Wellshem]

Hunter don't have that shity ego that some other classes usually have like SP for example lol

[@mooninites755]

The only reason feral didn't get swamp ass is because he had a moonkin player rate them

[@oxeroth]

@Cody uhhhhh???????

[@visionsofentertainment]

The only feral player was busy

[@joaoguerreiro5289]

@@visionsofentertainment probably being tamed by a hunter

[@yankokassinof6710]

@@joaoguerreiro5289 isso foi engraçado

[@Tyberes]

what a chad the warrior player. Max hoping for somebody, ANYBODY to put their class in S and the Warrior comes in DOUBLE S BABY

[@Jackomack]

With great power comes great responsibility

[@sheesh3214]

Yea of the mace baby

[@orcomon5955]

Arms is mediocre but fury is gonna be really OP. A lot of versatility. But every single warrior will tell you "warrior is the best class in the game xd"

[@freddiet8639]

@@orcomon5955 I'm a warrior and it's definitely not the best but it is my favourite!

[@christianprevost8455]

@@orcomon5955 arms were strong in sod tought

[@electricmayhem8147]

kalamazi! best class representative of all the classes. that guy is hardcore s tier.

[@HEEHEEBOII]

So if warrior is S tier then Enhancement is going to be S tier. Damn, gonna be a good patch lmao.

[@nikok665]

"Rapid fire style" *glances at video length* LOL fr tho I love this long from content

[@blacklily250]

Taeznak is so well spoken, could listen to him lecture wow knowledge all day 😍

[@ReatuKrentor]

11:20 - Now we need a tier list for class communities.

[@LongPape]

I feel very well represented as a warrior.

[@Chibibowa]

Zug Zug style ;)

[@drake5061]

What you said about mages complaining about them being bad when they're normally good, that goes for Boomkins too

[@randomjimbitz512]

Max, love your content, stuff or shit... whatever you want to call it ... I listen to you while I work and it just makes me laugh at some of your takes on players and the game in general. 👍

[@KnallenN]

funny how they put destro in C tier knowing where it ended up

[@Naesam]

For what it's worth this was like right before the ele sim bug was discovered. I'd easily put Ele in A with the new info.

[@JS-skankhunt42]

What was the bug about ?

[@Naesam]

@@JS-skankhunt42 We discovered that sims didn't have rank 2 Lightning Bolt enabled, meaning the base cast time was 2.5s instead of 2s. Wasn't particularly relevant the rest of Shadowlands, but it makes the new Storm Ele build look way more enticing.

[@Mindseas]

An hour to learn that basically all specs are roughly equal, although we don't quite know yet. Well that was time well spent ;D

[@benjaminghazi787]

@Cody wtf you talking about. Affliction is garbage in almost every raid encounter. Fire mage is above average but not insane at all. Bro at least test them before talking wtf???

[@durango3063]

Kalamazi my boy. Church of warlocks ❤️

[@fearmemortals]

Pretty glad Max didn't listen to chat and get Archimetros for warrior. Guy legit said arms would be the worst spec in the game for 9.1 and going back tiers and expansions he's been wrong far more than he's ever been right.

[@gregthomson2299]

Totally agree with that, have never understood why he’s considered so highly. Biz is a super good representative of Dps warrior as well. Would have liked to have heard some detail though, having dropped WoW a week or two into SL (and being a warrior main since ToT). I have played other specs for a tier or so, but always came back to warriors. They also always seem to scale well as the xpac goes on too.

[@ihateiraq9]

Damn that warrior made me want to reroll to warrior.

[@Wellshem]

We're all gonna make it brah

[@somerandominternetdweller]

I am glad to hear my main, that is a demo lock is the best spec for warlocks.😃

[@King_Konglish]

I wish the warrior actually talked about the specs 🥴

[@bayazwow]

Warrior: Joins call, slams both warrior specs in S tier, refuses to elaborate, leaves. GIGACHAD

[@Wellshem]

Both warrior mindset and brain

[@freddiet8639]

Zug Zug

[@diode_wow]

You don't need a deep dive, you push the buttons, you see the smash, you get big numbers.

[@randyhalloway5168]

Tldr: Necrofury zugs

[@kasper1241]

Boomkins are the Karens of WoW.

[@tnaxpw]

Love Xeos, just put's it straight up OP and we good

[@ccgamerlol]

even though there is some personal bias, I think its a way better tier list than some "plays all classes" guy... or just looking at data without knowing how some things influence class power or viability.

[@SkullcandyEdit]

So we are completely okay with a Boomy hardcore simp putting Feral in mid C and it being the legit only class that didn't get represented? Psybear literally quit since the last video, the forums are burning, dreamgrove is a saltmine, how in gods name isn't he in at least swamp? Ffs our set is a copied worse legendary and the entire set gives us 700dps IN TOTAL. Bro, the hardest part of being a Feral main is not giving into the urge and finally ending it all holy fuck

[@benjaminghazi787]

Blame feral disc for psybear quitting. It didn’t matter if he made that video or not, someone was. Maybe a day later maybe a week, maybe a month. But someone was going to do it. But the idiots on feral disc flamed him into oblivion like the idiots they are

[@Mugahh]

Would be very cool to see how accuerate this tierlist was down the line maybe do a new tierlist and compare the 2

[@Benrage321]

Post World First Tier List ayy

[@20the20]

not accurate, in case you're still wondering.

[@Yawe__]

From his reactions is fairly obvious which ones he agrees with and which ones he doesn't lol

[@chadbugansky]

Feral is simultaneously in the one of the best spots its ever been for a long time and one of the worst specs somehow. Idk how they can keep doing this.

[@AlxndrXX]

Hybrid

[@Waevform]

@@AlxndrXX but boomkin

[@michaelpolazzo5964]

It's nothing in particular, but boomkin is a boomkin

[@balance1619]

Lol. I was excited to play DK cause of buffs and it’s projected to be one of the worst specs. Again. 4th tier in a row. What a garbage company.

[@Emer1ca101]

That DK should make KZbin videos and narrate my life for me.

[@AyaSkylab]

Very disappointed about the ww comments, was hoping for some more involvement from the expert :( Anyways great video! Really interesting and fun mechanic! :D

[@masonmcconnell9375]

enhancement baby ive been playing enhancement since vanilla wow same toon glad to see them getting shine in 9.2

[@steelegriffiths8650]

The drama about AMZ ... seriously, do people really think Blizz was like "wut? that's a thing in the game? we didn't know about that - quick kill it guys!" As if they wouldn't have stats of where heals and absorbs are coming from, when they're being used and how big they are... Or are people imagining that it's more of a "Shit! They figured out that DKs have an AOE damage mitigation, that has been there since the class was released! Quick nerf it!" Then again, Blizz do seem to do their best to appear completely incompetent .. maybe I give them too much credit :\

[@BloodDrenched-y6i]

Blizzard was ok with it being good and strong. They want classes to have more utilities and viable for raids. They didn’t like when raids stacked 3 to 4 of them. So they were forced to nerf it so it doesn’t crowd out other melee. I think they are too extreme with nerfs. They should just of added a debuff to amz so you get less benefit of another for a few minutes

[@kail_6019]

Classic warrior is back PogChamp

[@hunterbell2066]

Let's go Demo Warlock. Going to be insane with the tier and double lego. I'm new to warlock in general but I'm pumped to see how Demo looks at the new higher end gear levels

[@andreicmello]

It's insane with 4 tier... double lego... situationally insane.

[@hunterbell2066]

@@andreicmello that's what I like to hear

[@littlefinger3018]

The shadowlands shadowpriest gutted the entire flow of legion and Bfa shadow and im so sad about it. I always hoped theyd catch him in the next Patch eventually but for me it keeps feeling so clunky to play in m+. I also heared from others who liked shadow before that they kinda dont like the new shadow, while New players prefer the changes a lot tho

[@recckkless]

cant wait for the average pug to STILL be stuck in the "warrior bad" mindset

[@Skocik911]

As a hunter main since vanilla, the class devs gave up after legion and it’s obvious.

[@andrejjelcic3675]

DK is going to be swamp ass. I am calling it.

[@AlxndrXX]

I WANT DK TO BE GOOD

[@andrejjelcic3675]

@@AlxndrXX It's my main. But damn devs fuck us every patch and in a DK expansion. We got to be real, Warriors and Rogues have prefential treatmant.

[@lulsauce]

Max! Can we have your playlist from the world first race ?? I love your music man

[@nathana5718]

max crushin on the dk guy 💕🥾

[@sam_hek]

Searing nightmare is the worst button to press i agree.

[@Blaubarsch25]

Best ranking! Was really fun to watch. Wish you put out More KZbin Content. Would like to See this Kind of Video for m+

[@jakefreas4794]

I agree would be great but max doesn’t care about m+ personally lol so sadly for us it won’t be coming from him

[@b4npsajd]

big brain idea, make M+ set bonuses (working only in dungeons) If you wanna go crazy also add pvp sets

[@mrnoidea1009]

Sure, let's add more things to balance :')

[@rozz1864]

these hunter predictions could not be worse

[@rabindranathlunarios9631]

So, only bring 1 mage for the int buff, roger that

[@ronaldarce2012]

The TRUE tier list

[@clifflittle4055]

hey max, will you be changing your tag from limit maximum to liquid maximum? just curios? It shows on your stream too

[@jakubfilipek7300]

"Man... I really need a hunter genius, but non of them are even average intelligence."

[@Shield_OW]

warriors are too busy with the sigma male grindset to waste more than 30 seconds rating the class

[@the_Wingading]

I feel like a super genius DH is like Forest Gump IQ right?

[@Rigy777]

max fr needed that weight off his shoulders with DK AMZ

[@Xantaga]

fuck yeah love xeos

[@derpingtoast]

same

[@kurtschloesser]

Love me some Kalamazi on the open. Thanks for the vid Max!

[@ggsyth1081]

Babe wake up Max just posted

[@marshallpalfenier8584]

Anyone know the chill outro music?

[@jaredjamesimages]

Porcelain by Sadscarr

[@1Dybuk]

9.2 shadowland Frost DK now is beast!

[@vlasihinn]

So... Mike Yebara mains warrior and they will be op in new patch. Coincidence?;)

[@jawshi967]

The whole Endscreen still says Limit

[@LaptopmenaceMTK]

i don't trust anyone who calls ass rogue, "sin." Get out of here with that BS.

[@Rendasd]

iRO only we were calling Assassins "Sins".. yes, over 20 years ago. lol

[@sinnis4993]

@@Rendasd back in the day it was called mutilate rogue...that was an abomination

[@dgsunny23]

Can you do a similar list for rated battlegrounds as well? Thanks.

[@markuslc1888]

unfortunately i have to agree with asuna when it comes to mages. fire would ve been high a tier with out the nerf, since 2pc and cov lego are shit and 4pc got heavily nerfed, it's b tier at best, especially without PI. frost also got nerfed, not only massively in aoe but also in 2t 3t and 4t, so the niche, that it was good at, ripped it from a to b, and idk why arcane was never strong or op on ptr, but blizzard decided to nerf the 2pc from 18% to 10% so that's also a impactful change, making it hard to put it in a tier, since it's a lottery spec, being strongly dependent on barrage crits, and getting a mechanic during the ramp, kills the try actually, so also b tier unfortunately accurate choice.

[@sinnis4993]

feels good that mages aren't s tier for 1 patch.

[@sajway1]

Imagine being a mage and complaining about anything

[@markuslc1888]

@@sinnis4993 mage wasn't s tier in raids for entire shadowlands, only in CN fire could keep up with PI at top upper third, but no mage spec ever was s tier

[@sinnis4993]

@@markuslc1888 fire mage was a god in CN, SoD arcane and frost were literally s- tier. stop defending mages when it's the single most broken class in wow. even dh was more balanced than mage will ever be.

[@Nillowo]

This is going to be an interesting tier

[@pr0digy1lol79]

MM unblinking vigil legendary got bugfixed according to bluepost & if that is all good I think they'll be really strong

[@johnjones4019]

I main survival hunter, glad pvp however. I am most certainly a melee player and suck at mm and bm somehow lol. The hunter take was true

[@LittleRedRubberDuck]

Awesome video, loved it! :)

[@jeffl6394]

BM will start out at mid B tier, but will fall off fast as people get set bonuses. Any non-casual BM Hunter will be pigeon-holed into Night Fae, as set bonuses conflict with Kyrian and Venthyr. That's disappointing, because the BM set bonus is entirely single target and would go well with Venthyr's single target focus if they didn't conflict. That being said, assuming no changes to the set bonuses, with 4pc and double legendaries, BM will likely struggle to stay out of the dumpster fire tier. BM set bonuses are garbage and need to be changed. A lot of specs need their tier sets adjusted, but I think BM is the only one that desperately needs a full rework.

[@Sevatar_VIIIth]

Well what do you think of BM hunters in PvE now in 2.3.5?

[@itskhro]

After that warrior was on I'd put enhance in S tier as well just for their buffs lmao

[@Chibibowa]

Brewmaster Monk, 2 warriors and 1 ele shamy. Ezgame, done xD

[@kheath580]

warlocks and moonkins sandbag so hard that anything they say should immediately be suspect and they should be at least one tier higher than they say.

[@coreymatthew608]

No way, locks need a buff for sure 👀

[@electricmayhem8147]

as much as i love demo there is no way it is s tier so not sure you are correct on that.

[@AlxndrXX]

me, an aff lock

[@suboptimal5798]

Super good video idea.

[@dexter6049]

I just so hate what they do to feral... Why do they put so much hate on that specc? It just doesnt make any sense to me

[@HypocrisyInbound]

As a feral main I’m kinda butthurt about this. Our single target is really good and we have lots of utility and we deserve a representation not a moonboi. Moonbois hate us so of course he shitted on us. Need more representation. Everybody else got someone knowledgeable about it.

[@tidnid1869]

surely it should be Sub: A Sin: low B Outlaw: low C

[@christopherandrade7785]

HOW DO YOU GET WARRIOR ON S? I main warrior and I can’t get this shit to slay 😂

[@shalal92i]

Shaman enchance buff Hunt survival 😌😌 let'sgo ! Do it big damage !

[@mitchzurbrigg2403]

Hoping ret pally gets some love

[@Gunship888]

Would be nice to be B tier for once this xpac

[@benr970]

Surely we just need slightly less of a crazy burst so it isn’t as op in pvp and give us more base damage for our builders

[@JS-skankhunt42]

Are warriors really gonna be that good? If yes makes me wanna get mine back lol

[@damienwyles6515]

Ah yes, Someone who will roll fotm rather than a class they actually enjoy because someone tells them its gonna be insane

[@postbloom9767]

​@@damienwyles6515 most warrior players from every xpac

[@electricmayhem8147]

demonology warlock a tier fuck yes!

[@sheesh3214]

Year of the mace

[@HESOMADBRO]

There's no way Havoc won't be S tier for raiding. They were clearly S tier in SoD and have received huge buffs in forms of double leggo. Even in M+ it will have outstanding priority/boss damage and the 4 piece means less cooldown on our huge uncapped damage cooldown. Also Affli and Outlaw are swamp ass no doubt.

[@flowolf4189]

The reason the 4 piece is possible trash is because our meta will be around 3 mins at best & if we have to HOLD due to mechanics, then the tier set loses it’s benefit. DH is being forced into Venthyr for raids, which is alright I guess because I love Demonic builds, but we are not a dot management class. Feels weird.

[@zachariaszacharias1206]

YOU are giving 3 minutes to Kalamazi??? :D :D

[@kasper1241]

The logic thrown around Enhancement can really be used for any class buff. You can also put the Mage specs in S tier then because of AI.

[@phatymcdaddy]

Warriors gain a ton from WF. Definitely more than any one class gains from AI. Enhance with full tier is also doing really really good dmg that bumps them high up

[@kasper1241]

@@phatymcdaddy AI will still have an overall larger impact than WF since it affects all caster classes + healers. So if you use WF as an argument for Enhancement being an S tier spec then you can use the same argument for e.g. Mages. I'm fine with Enhancement being in A tier, but a spec that you're only going to bring one of because of a class buff is not a S tier spec.

[@Pilek01]

Oh look ret on the bottom again. Last time ret was good is Wrath of the Lich King and that is 13-14 years ago xD

[@Ninnyism]

seeing ret at C tier makes me cackle, please.

[@jonhagood8823]

Hhhhhhhear me out. 8 warriors, 2 enhance, and 4 demo?

[@neonknives3929]

Fire goes straight into the B-hole

[@MrDoit187]

if windwalker had no raidbuff. it be turbo swamp ass XD

[@MarkElf2204]

Not surprising, just disapointing at this point, that BM Hunter is still lower-middle of the pack all of SL despite all the claims that it scaled well towards the end of expansions to make up for it

[@lordjulian10]

Who tf said bm scales well. Classe that scale well are classes that have fundamemntal synergies with secondarty statts that have really specific stat priorities, or just have disgustingly op expansion mechanic abuse, in this case covensnts(and leggod). Bm doesnt care much about secondaries and cares much more about primary stats because so much of its damage is pets. Same thing with dk’s.

[@paxtonjolly7975]

@@lordjulian10 this actually isnt entirely correct, BM was disgusting in nyalotha because they had enough crit to maintain frenzy stacks 100%. BM used to fall off because pets scaled poorly, thats not the case anymore. For whatever reason their damage and crit just hasnt scaled enough this expac to be very very good.

[@asiano550]

@@paxtonjolly7975 The reason they haven't scaled so well is the lack of Dance of Death azerite power. We can still maintain Frenzy with close to 100% uptime and don't even need that much secondaries to do so. BM likes having stats but agility is the one that carries.

[@blackllistd5752]

@@paxtonjolly7975 the main reason bm scaled well in bfa was because the Azerite gear faces stats which is what scaled. Bm itself doesn’t have that scaling.

[@alexandrajohnston4166]

moonkin players make me want to throw up

[@ralphherdman5073]

Tettles is cringe af for sure

[@Frosty616.]

I can’t wait to clown on folks on my feral. A good player on a lower spec is always better than an OK player on a meta spec. This is gonna be a fun season

[@mklk7377]

Demono it's rank S here

[@noaboa5670]

Outlaw dream no longer D class baby. But also people are vastly underestimating tier bonus. Especially with blunderbus leggo lots of synergy with tier bonus.

[@Handcannon77]

Yeah...so much synergy that blunderbuss lego still isnt even better than Celerity kekw

[@noaboa5670]

@@Handcannon77 have you tried it with set bonus? I still use celerity but was testing out others on ptr. You can essentially get off 9 free pistol shots. But by all means snarky comments without anything to add are a great tool in theory crafting. 👍

[@Handcannon77]

@@noaboa5670 Yes, I tested a lot of Kyrian outlaw on the PTR...everyone thought that the build could be strong with the tier set but it just ended up being underwhelming and still outperformed by celerity in ST(and obviously in aoe), which goes to show that even though there appears to be "lots of synergy" it just isnt stronger than celerity. All it really offers is a bit more prio damage/burst. Either way Outlaw isnt looking great, its ST before tier set/2 lego is pretty bad and even with those things its ST is still pretty underwhelming, especially compared to the other 2 rogue specs. And its pretty much going to be a dead spec in m+ outside of maybe ToP if it is still going to be capped, Prot Pals and Brewmasters will literally out DPS outlaw regularly on pulls >5 targets(and big pulls will likely become more prevalent with 4 set/2 legos, effectively making Outlaw's damage profile useless). But people will likely still play Sub in ToP in high keys too. Outlaw's 5 target damage isnt even top tier compared to others with tier/2 lego either, theres plenty of specs who can outperform it while also actually not being target capped which means Outlaw is largely irrelevant then.

[@arforafro5523]

@@noaboa5670 Feelcraft lel

[@ivank.1260]

GIGACHAD warrior

[@iyziejane]

All these detailed analyses and for Warrior its just "S tier, definitely, k bye"

[@burn9295]

war master class obviously

[@Mojoremixxx]

YES WARRIORS MY LOVE

[@technicolorsoultheory3924]

Why are they all watching max’s stream lmfao

[@bjimmy2796]

As a mage main since vanilla, C- after that nerf to frost. Completely ruined the spec and has such small burst windows it’s out right unplayable. Other wise you just sit still and cast frost bolt looking to proc. They ruined mages.

[@momentofenlightenment6004]

What? Before nerf frost was really super broken… they are still S tier if u played the game you would know

[@richardjones8846]

43:00 yeah it's a real fucking problem. hunter used to be the utility, mobile spec that had hunter jobs... now we're a piece of shit physical caster that's worse than destruction in single/cleave, and only clawing to viability because of covenant ability. meanwhile warlock... complete bullshit loaded utility that's also UNIQUE to them. it's such a fucking joke how many hunters they made quit/reroll bcus of their bias. 43:54 we used to... then BFA.

[@Zutraxi]

So this is only DPS? Or are they considering utility. Then outlaw and shadow should be below unholy and ret?